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Auramis
2016-12-06, 08:54 PM
I love the concept behind an aura carrying support fighter, and I was pumped to see the Purple Dragon Knight (Banneret) when it first came out, but it just didn't deliver on the flavor I was hoping for. Its abilities are too tied in its base abilities, making it feel like the Banneret has no abilities at all when they're left alone and cut off from their allies. I was wondering if anyone has a Banneret that functions more feasibly than the one in the SCAG. Something, perhaps, with auras more akin to a paladin's and some focus on Charisma.

Auramis
2016-12-06, 11:50 PM
I've changed my request since I posted. Rather than paladiny fighter options, now I'm just looking for a Purple Dragon Knight fix. The one we got from the SCAG is a bit lackluster when compared to its counterparts, and I'm curious to see what a functional version would entail.

Ivogel
2016-12-07, 01:36 AM
i'm playing a PDK in an Out of the abyss campain and went for very high charisma and the inspiring leader feat.

i don't know about your stats but i would like for the PDK's abilities be boosted by charisma, or grant an extra use of rallying cry at lv7, as i don't think the PDK needs a whole lot to be able to be on par with the rest if the subclasses, in all deadly encounters i've been in the rallying cry combined with inspiring leader feat saved allies from being incapacitated every time

i think the flavor of the PDK demands that you are no better than a regular fighter without your allies so i don't really have an idea for new abilities but you could take a look at the 3.5 marshall class

Sad Tyrant
2016-12-07, 02:29 AM
So you are looking for a Fighter in particular?, I've seen a Warlord base class (I have the link but im new to posting so i can't), A Warlord Fighter Archetype (cant find this one). I can't really talk about the purple dragon knight since i don't have the SCAG.

Foxhound438
2016-12-07, 02:59 AM
the easiest fix is probably give a couple of extra uses of second wind over time- maybe 2 per rest at 10 and 3 at 18? I wouldn't think it's too strong to do this as the subclass itself gets no damage boosts, and everyone loves a team player anyways. The other abilities kind of take care of themselves- L7 is kink of the "ribbon" level for fighters, and inspiring surge and bulwark scale indirectly with the uses of the triggering abilities anyways.

An alternative is to somehow weave in bardic inspiration, maybe lock it as a d4 and have the die size never increase? Possibly a decent shoe-in for a 7th level feature, since 7 isn't strictly ribbon- EK gets a great feature then, so it's not out of the question to make PDK get a tangible bonus there as well.

Auramis
2016-12-07, 12:57 PM
i'm playing a PDK in an Out of the abyss campain and went for very high charisma and the inspiring leader feat.

i don't know about your stats but i would like for the PDK's abilities be boosted by charisma, or grant an extra use of rallying cry at lv7, as i don't think the PDK needs a whole lot to be able to be on par with the rest if the subclasses, in all deadly encounters i've been in the rallying cry combined with inspiring leader feat saved allies from being incapacitated every time

i think the flavor of the PDK demands that you are no better than a regular fighter without your allies so i don't really have an idea for new abilities but you could take a look at the 3.5 marshall class

I like idea of having the Purple Dragon Knight's Charisma affect his abilities. It would certainly be a welcome change. I think part of the reason it doesn't is that your allies would technically benefit more so from some of your abilities than you would. Like, with indomitable, you get to reroll a failed saved. With the PDK, if he inspires an ally to do it, they get a better reroll than he did. It seems strange in some regard... that said, I still like the idea of Charisma coming into play with the PDK more. I think that was my biggest gripe is that, for a party/people oriented knight, it had very little to do with Charisma.

Ivogel
2016-12-07, 04:10 PM
i was thinking something like this


3d level rallying cry
Heal self 1d10 + fighter level and heal up to three others for fighter level + CHA modifier

Lv7 royal envoy: no changes

Lv10: inspiring surge
Add CHA modifier to your allies's attack roll made by your inspiring surge.

Lv15: Bulwark
Add your CHA modifier to your allies' save made by your bulwark feature.

Lv18: add your CHA modifier to your allies attack and damage rolls made by your inspiring surge.


You don't boost your own abilities with your own charisma, inspiring yourself, to me that doesn't make sense. a party member getting a boost because of you, that does make sense. A purple dragon knight is made to be a beacon and team player, not a lone wolf. in a party a purple dragon knight will be a solid addition, alone he has no one to inspire so he will be just be not as effective as the other archetypes

Auramis
2016-12-07, 04:37 PM
Doesn't that seem... lackluster, though? Like, the Battlemaster, subpar as its lategame is, has some benefits it can apply to itself in addition to its allies. I don't think it's fair an archetype becomes invalidated the moment they're alone.

Ivogel
2016-12-07, 05:08 PM
I think it depends on the role you want to fulfill in the party. and it's not like the fightr doesn't give you any powerful abilities when you're alone. In one-on one combat youvstill have your not-PDK abilities to fall back on.

again, a second use of your rallying cry per short rest would already be very powerful.

in the campaign i'm in i'm forming a tandem with a vengeance paladin. i use the protection fighting style and knocking people down with my shield and taunting and distracting opponents while the paladin does most of the damage. we're a pretty effective team, not everyone needs to be a minmax damage monster to have fun.

Terrichance
2016-12-13, 12:51 PM
BoltNine Homebrew came out with a Warlord subclass for Fighter, recently. You could take that as it is, or else borrow one of the features from it to patch the PDK.

I'd link it, but the board won't let me do that just yet. It's at the dnd-5e-homebrew tumblr.

Princess
2016-12-15, 12:56 AM
Personally, having already thought about this, I'd say incorporating inspiration or charisma bonuses as suggested above could do the trick. The lazier option could be to throw an extra feat choice their way at level 7 (if you are playing with feats, which everyone should). Making Inspiring Leader or Martial Adept as an extra bonus feat could close the gap with other fighters, and shouldn't immediately break the game. I'd try any of those fixes one at a time, though, rather than dump a dozen things at once. PDK as written is still playable, so any one adjustment should do the trick.

Wufflykins
2016-12-17, 03:38 AM
I love the concept behind an aura carrying support fighter, and I was pumped to see the Purple Dragon Knight (Banneret) when it first came out, but it just didn't deliver on the flavor I was hoping for. Its abilities are too tied in its base abilities, making it feel like the Banneret has no abilities at all when they're left alone and cut off from their allies. I was wondering if anyone has a Banneret that functions more feasibly than the one in the SCAG. Something, perhaps, with auras more akin to a paladin's and some focus on Charisma.

Have you considered the new Knight from the Fighter Unearthed Arcana? It's not the same thing but it is nice all the same - I highly recommend it.

Malifice
2017-04-16, 08:23 AM
I've changed my request since I posted. Rather than paladiny fighter options, now I'm just looking for a Purple Dragon Knight fix. The one we got from the SCAG is a bit lackluster when compared to its counterparts, and I'm curious to see what a functional version would entail.

My take (these abilities are all in addition to what they normally get at these levels; Rallying cry at 3rd and Royal envoy at 7th):

Commanders strike
At 3rd level When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can forgo one of your attacks and use a bonus action to direct one of your companions to strike. When you do so, choose a friendly creature who can see or hear you. That creature can immediately use its reaction to make one weapon attack, adding the 1d8 points of weapon damage to the attackís damage roll if it hits. This bonus damage increases to 1d10 at 10th level, and to 1d12 at 18th level.

When you are capable of making more than one attack with the Attack action you chose to forgo two attacks instead of one to also grant your ally advantage on this attack roll.

Leading the charge
At 7th level you can use your bonus action to command your allies into position. Each ally within 30í of you that can hear you can immediately move their speed as a reaction. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You choose where the allies move, but they donít have to move if they donít want to.

Once you use this ability, you must finish a long or short rest to use it again.

Inspiring surge improves at 18th level and not 17th level. (pretty sure this is actual errata).

Boom presto. Instant Warlord.

Take the Noble (Knight) background, play a Vuman, take Protection style and the Inspiring leader feat and you're set. Martial adept at 4th (moreso if your DM is like me and grants 2 dice for the feat).

M/C options are Oath of the Crown Paladin, and Bard. Id probably aim for PDK 12 and Crown Paladin 8.