PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Yet another take at Drunken Master



Arkhios
2016-12-16, 09:32 AM
Since both Jeremy Crawford and Mike Mearls seem to shirk away from introducing us an "official" Drunken Master Monk, I decided I could just as well make my own iteration off of it.

So, here you go:

Homebrewery Link (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H1JYSJzNx) (note: Works best on Chrome)

Edit: Unpredictable Technique revised.
Edit2: Capstone feature changed to Fire Breath
Edit3: Stagger and Sway prone condition revised.
Edit4: Changed For Medicinal Purposes from bonus action to action. Wouldn't want to restrict a Drunken Master from drinking whenever he pleases; even if he was being prone and swaying.
Edit5: added proficiency in Brewer's supplies.

Llama513
2016-12-17, 06:03 PM
Since both Jeremy Crawford and Mike Mearls seem to shirk away from introducing us an "official" Drunken Master Monk, I decided I could just as well make my own iteration off of it.

So, here you go:


WAY OF THE DRUNKEN MASTER

Drink like a Demon: At 3rd level, a drunken masterís body handles alcohol differently from other peopleís. You can drink a large tankard of ale, a bottle of wine, or a corresponding amount of stronger alcohol as a free object interaction on your turn. You also have advantage on saving throws against the effects of being drunk.[THIS HERE IS A RIBBON]

Unpredictable Technique: Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with improvised weapons and you treat improvised weapons as monk weapons. When you take the Attack action and use either unarmed strike or an improvised weapon, until the start of your next turn all attacks made against you have disadvantage.

Stagger and Sway: At 6th level, when you take the Dash action, you can spend 1 Ki point to stagger, causing opportunity attacks against you to have disadvantage until the end of your turn. While youíre prone, your attacks no longer have disadvantage, and attack rolls against you made within 5 feet of you donít have advantage either.

For Medicinal Purposes: At 11th level, as a bonus action, you can ingest a single alcoholic drink to regain hit points equal to three times your monk level. You must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.

Staggering Strike: At 17th level, you have learned how to better take advantage of openings in your opponent's defenses and strike when they least suspect it. When an attack with Advantage or Disadvantage made by a creature within 5 feet of you misses, you may use your reaction to make an attack on that creature with an unarmed strike or an improvised weapon.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx295/AugustNight/WayofEight_zpszf2mdpyz.jpg
I take no credit for the picture.

I like the idea, Unpredictable Technique is broken at the moment, as it gives constant disadvantage to attacks against you. What I would do instead is to give a plus +2 to damage dealt with improvised weapons, or something like that, if you want the disadvantage make it cost Ki, and then for the capstone, I would change it to the one that people know and love from 3.5, Fire Breath. There are lots of different ways to handle it, the one that I like is to have it be a 20 foot Cone, Dex save for half, and deal either a set amount of damage like 6d10 and cost about 3 ki, or have it be 2d10 per ki point spent, as you mix your ki with alcohol from a drink and ignite it.

UmbralHero
2016-12-17, 06:37 PM
"... and then for the capstone, I would change it to the one that people know and love from 3.5, Fire Breath. There are lots of different ways to handle it, the one that I like is to have it be a 20 foot Cone, Dex save for half, and deal either a set amount of damage like 6d10 and cost about 3 ki, or have it be 2d10 per ki point spent, as you mix your ki with alcohol from a drink and ignite it.

This. Having a drunk monk belch fire all over a group of horrified orcs is half the reason to play a drunken master. Having Unpredictable Technique cost Ki feels a little weak, but having every single attack be at disadvantage seems way too powerful. Perhaps make it at disadvantage against the target(s) you hit during that round.

Llama513
2016-12-17, 07:25 PM
Having Unpredictable Technique cost Ki feels a little weak, but having every single attack be at disadvantage seems way too powerful. Perhaps make it at disadvantage against the target(s) you hit during that round.

I've got an idea, your reaction to half the damage, explained as drunkenly shifting out of the way, or something like that, in addition to the +2 damage from Improvised Weapons.

khadgar567
2016-12-19, 06:26 AM
This is the first proper drunken monster who acts like drunk not litraly drunk

Arkhios
2016-12-19, 05:23 PM
This is the first proper drunken monster who acts like drunk not litraly drunk
I wouldn't call him a monster, albeit he can drink like one! :smalltongue:


I like the idea, Unpredictable Technique is broken at the moment, as it gives constant disadvantage to attacks against you. What I would do instead is to give a plus +2 to damage dealt with improvised weapons, or something like that, if you want the disadvantage make it cost Ki, and then for the capstone, I would change it to the one that people know and love from 3.5, Fire Breath. There are lots of different ways to handle it, the one that I like is to have it be a 20 foot Cone, Dex save for half, and deal either a set amount of damage like 6d10 and cost about 3 ki, or have it be 2d10 per ki point spent, as you mix your ki with alcohol from a drink and ignite it.
I don't see the Drunken Master as a damage dealer really, but rather as a defender type, being as difficult to hit as they are. I feel iffy about adding +2 bonus to improvised weapon damage since they already can substitute Martial Arts damage for the normal damage.
I did consider Breath of Flame, but I thought I'd see what people thought about Staggering Strike. I'll change it to Breath of Flame, probably going with the 1 Ki/2d10, up to as much as 6d10.


Having Unpredictable Technique cost Ki feels a little weak, but having every single attack be at disadvantage seems way too powerful. Perhaps make it at disadvantage against the target(s) you hit during that round.
I can relate with the concern for having a constant disadvantage to hit a Drunken Master.
The initial design was borrowed from Swashbuckler rogue who get the benefit of Disengage without using Cunning Action as long as they attack their target. Since Dodge is approximately equal in worth I thought it wouldn't be so bad. But I guess I could have it cost 1 Ki.

Maybe it'll trigger from just attacking the target, whether you hit or not. I think this free dodge could apply against those who were attacked, effectively, if a Drunken Monster ...err, Master... divided his attacks between multiple targets, he would lock quite many targets in place, while remaining relatively safe himself.

Llama513
2016-12-19, 05:27 PM
The only reason I was suggesting the +2 for improvised weapons, was to give a slight incentive to use them, as the old drunken master had, but it was purely for that reason, that is the only reason, so I totally understand not putting it in

Having it just affect those you attack, I think would work

Secret Wizard
2016-12-19, 11:14 PM
1. Unpredictable Technique is broken as hell. Permadodge is too much. What about adding a half-Flurry, half-Dodge option to Ki use? Say, something that allows you to spend 1 ki to make an attack with an unarmed strike or improvised weapon as a bonus action (rather than the usual 2), but if you hit the attack, the enemy has disadvantage on all attack rolls it makes against you until the start of your next turn?

2. Stagger and Sway, I'm on the fence. Removing all penalties to dropping prone seems to mean, simply, "all ranged attacks against you have disadvantage". I think it'd be cool to still keep a penalty to make it more meaningful. For example, "whenever you are prone, you no longer have disadvantage on attack rolls, and using your Patient Defense ability costs no Ki". This way, you basically negate the enemy's advantage on rolls as long as you keep using your bonus action, but you are still vulnerable to melee attacks if you decide to Flurry of Blows.

3. Rather than simply picking up Wholeness of Body, what if you made this a special brew laced with your spirit that ANYBODY could drink. It remains laced with your power for 24 hours or until you lace another beverage with this ability. Whenever someone drinks it, that person gains HP equal to three time your Monk level.. and loses 1 level of exhaustion. That would make it pretty unique.

4. Change Staggering Strike for fire breath!

Llama513
2016-12-27, 07:56 PM
I really like those options

Arkhios
2016-12-28, 04:53 AM
I'll have to sit down for a while and re-iterate those abilities. Thanks for the feedback!

Ethambutol
2016-12-28, 08:45 AM
I wouldn't call him a monster, albeit he can drink like one! :smalltongue:

I can relate with the concern for having a constant disadvantage to hit a Drunken Master.
The initial design was borrowed from Swashbuckler rogue who get the benefit of Disengage without using Cunning Action as long as they attack their target. Since Dodge is approximately equal in worth I thought it wouldn't be so bad. But I guess I could have it cost 1 Ki.

Disengage and Dodge aren't really equivalent at all. There is a very clear reason Rogues do not have the Dodge action as part of Cunning action because Dodge as a bonus action would be broken as hell, and this is even better since it's basically for free.

Arkhios
2016-12-28, 09:32 AM
Disengage and Dodge aren't really equivalent at all. There is a very clear reason Rogues do not have the Dodge action as part of Cunning action because Dodge as a bonus action would be broken as hell, and this is even better since it's basically for free.

Essentially both serve same purpose: avoiding attacks/hits.
Disengage avoids attacks/hits entirely, while Dodge makes avoiding an attack/hit more likely.


BUT.... I hear you, giants. Free Dodge as part of the attack is too much if you still have normal chance to hit.

How about a ki-free option that is essentially the opposite of Reckless Attack? Let's call it Erratic Attack.
Every turn when you attack, you can choose to take disadvantage on your attack rolls for the rest of your turn. Until the start of your next turn attacks against you also have disadvantage.

Llama513
2016-12-28, 12:46 PM
How about a ki-free option that is essentially the opposite of Reckless Attack? Let's call it Erratic Attack.
Every turn when you attack, you can choose to take disadvantage on your attack rolls for the rest of your turn. Until the start of your next turn attacks against you also have disadvantage.

I like that idea, the issue is I am not sure if it would ever be used

Arkhios
2016-12-28, 01:02 PM
I like that idea, the issue is I am not sure if it would ever be used

Maybe you could deal a bit extra damage if you hit with it? Like, maybe, with a reasonable ki cost, after you confirm a hit you deal twice the normal weapon die + normal bonuses.
Essentially a crit, but without being a critical hit, barring any additonal features that would trigger from a crit.

Having disadvantage is considered roughly equal with -5 on a roll, so if you hit with it, dealing at minimum 1d4 extra damage shouldn't be that powerful, if you compare it with Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master (flat +10 damage)

Any suggestions are welcome, but I'd rather keep it simple.

Llama513
2016-12-28, 02:45 PM
Maybe you could deal a bit extra damage if you hit with it? Like, maybe, with a reasonable ki cost, after you confirm a hit you deal twice the normal weapon die + normal bonuses.
Essentially a crit, but without being a critical hit, barring any additonal features that would trigger from a crit.

Having disadvantage is considered roughly equal with -5 on a roll, so if you hit with it, dealing at minimum 1d4 extra damage shouldn't be that powerful, if you compare it with Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master (flat +10 damage)

Any suggestions are welcome, but I'd rather keep it simple.

I like that option it works quite nicely and makes sense you are drunkenly flailing thus if you do manage to hit you aren't holding anything back an would thus hit harder

Arkhios
2016-12-28, 06:07 PM
I like that option it works quite nicely and makes sense you are drunkenly flailing thus if you do manage to hit you aren't holding anything back an would thus hit harder

Indeed, and since you are flailing, the 'how much harder you hit' isn't certain (thus, a die roll's random result is better than a flat bonus).

Llama513
2016-12-28, 09:04 PM
I can't believe I didn't notice this before, you could give them proficiency in brewing supplies, that would make a lot of sense

Arkhios
2016-12-29, 03:59 AM
I can't believe I didn't notice this before, you could give them proficiency in brewing supplies, that would make a lot of sense

I sure could, though Drunken Boxing isn't really about being drunk, but maneuvering as if you were ;)

Potato_Priest
2016-12-31, 08:54 PM
I like the idea for the opposite of reckless attack, with damage bonuses. Seems to fit the style well.

Arkhios
2017-01-01, 02:04 AM
Made some edits to the original post.
Unpredictable Technique now teaches you Erratic Technique as discussed above, with extra damage based on your monk level when you hit.

Stagger and sway only removes disadvantage from your attacks caused by being prone, and while prone you can use Patient Defense at no cost. Effectively you can use a bonus action and have the advantage against you being negated, and if you want to, you can still use Erratic Technique while prone, and benefit from both abilities at once.

Added Fire Breath as the 17th level capstone. Hope you like it.

I thought about changing 'For Medicinal Purposes' to make a healing brew which anyone could use, but I felt that the Drunken Masters aren't very fond of sharing their drinks!
However, I changed it to Action so that a Drunken Master could drink it while being prone, dodging attacks.

Overall, with these changes I feel the Drunken Master has captured a delightfully random style to use however you please.

Arkhios
2017-01-01, 06:17 PM
Also, updated the OP with a homebrewery link.

Any thoughts on the current stage?

Llama513
2017-01-04, 07:08 PM
Also, updated the OP with a homebrewery link.

Any thoughts on the current stage?

It looks awesome and fills the hole that was missing, I really think it is exactly what I was hoping for with the drunken master

Secret Wizard
2017-01-04, 10:36 PM
I love Erratic Technique.

But it doesn't mesh well with Stagger and Sway.

If your attacks had disadvantage for being prone, it doesn't matter, because Erratic Technique gives disadvantage anyway.

Furthermore, Erratic Technique already provides disadvantage on enemy attacks, so the Dash benefit is a bit meh.

Arkhios
2017-01-06, 04:36 PM
I love Erratic Technique.

But it doesn't mesh well with Stagger and Sway.

If your attacks had disadvantage for being prone, it doesn't matter, because Erratic Technique gives disadvantage anyway.

Furthermore, Erratic Technique already provides disadvantage on enemy attacks, so the Dash benefit is a bit meh.

I know, but I imagined that you wouldn't want to use Erratic Technique from round to round due to the decreased chance of landing a hit. My point being, you don't have to use exactly same tactics in any given situation. Instead, you can be very unpredictable in your fighting when you can use various tricks in different situations, making it almost impossible to guess what you're going to do next.

If you're prone, you could just use Patient Defense (dodge) as a bonus action, and still use your attacks normally.

Or, if you use step of the wind to dash, but also want to attack on your turn with a reasonable chance of hitting, you could stagger your way past the targets you aren't determined (or able) to attack.

At least, that's my prediction of the unpredictability I tried to provide through the sub-class.

Arkhios
2017-01-24, 04:36 PM
After a brief playtest I've gained valuable firsthand data regarding the Erratic Technique and have decided to hit with the Nerf-hammer.

Instead of the attacks automatically dealing extra damage, you'll have to expend ki points to accomplish it.

Now, I'm wondering whether the extra damage should be:

a) 1 ki point = extra damage per hit
or
b) 1 ki point = extra damage per round

and whether:

1) the extra damage = equal to the Martial Arts damage die
or
2) the extra damage = something else (what?)


Please, throw in your opinions and suggestions (preferably within the above parameters)

Llama513
2017-01-25, 08:20 PM
I would say go with per hit on the ki cost, but make it clear that the ki doesn't have to be spent until you know the result of the attack, like divine smite

Arkhios
2017-01-26, 01:52 AM
I would say go with per hit on the ki cost, but make it clear that the ki doesn't have to be spent until you know the result of the attack, like divine smite

That was my intention if I go that way, indeed.

Now, I'm wondering about the quantity of the damage. +1d4 (scaling up to +1d10) feels a bit low for the 1 ki point cost.

Would it be too much if it was +2d4 (scaling up to +2d10) for 1 ki point?

Llama513
2017-01-26, 02:04 AM
I don't think so