What makes a campaign journal good?

[SilverLeaf167]

EDIT: I made the thread now! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?512078-The-Brazen-Helm-Campaign-Journal-D-amp-D-3-P&p=21598920)

Apart from the campaign itself being good, obviously.

So, if you were to read and enjoy a campaign journal here on the Playground, what would you look for? Or, perhaps more accurately, what kind of thing would draw you in when you ran into one?


Apart from legitimate curiosity in people's reading habits, as you probably guessed, I'm also asking for myself. At the risk of sounding whiny, last summer I started posting a campaign journal (read if you dare (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491101-The-Lorekeeper-of-Lorelm-D-amp-D-3-5-Campaign)), but apart from a couple enthusiastic comments (thanks!), after six chapters there really wasn't much of a reaction. That isn't why I discontinued it - we seriously haven't gotten a single session in due to scheduling issues - but it did make me wonder, and I myself wasn't completely happy with the journal, honestly.

The point is: due to said scheduling issues, we're starting a separate campaign with a slightly different group, and hopefully a much tighter schedule. I'll be writing journals for myself and the group anyway, and I have a good feeling about the campaign; the question is whether I'm going to post them here, and what I could perhaps do to improve them.


And thus, I have several kinda specific questions. Obviously my own style of writing can't be completely overhauled and you can't please everyone, but I can definitely try and tweak it. You can answer with or without having read the prior journal:
How much detail do you prefer in the narration and descriptions? Do you prefer to discover information in the same way as the players, or just move along?
Related to the above: Do you prefer conversations to be quoted or just summarized? Not every grocery trip deserves a full dialogue, obviously, but you get what I mean.
What about "idle" roleplay, stuff that doesn't necessarily move the story along (at least directly) but adds mood and depth to characters (or is hopefully entertaining in itself)?
What about short lines of OOC sprinkled in, to provide either comedy or information and context that would be awkward to convey IC? Are they just jarring?
How quickly do you want to read through a journal? Obviously depends on the quality of it.
A setting you're familiar with, or an unfamiliar homebrew one? In the latter, how strong of a "gimmick" does it need, if at all? Also in the latter, how much lore do you want/tolerate? Is a separate lore database handy or just intimidating?
Any other insight is welcome as well. :smallsmile:

[wobner]

You can't judge interest in a journal by the number of replies. Look at some of the most popular journals on the forum, player antics tend to get replies, or just bizarre or interesting little bits to the story, and even then, the number of replies to veiws is often a huge disparity. just look at the necroranchers, and remember that it wasn't till towards the end that the replies really started to shoot up(and then, despite the number of people actually reading, most of the posts were by a few readers, most of them clamouring for updates to the journal as real life interfered with its update schedule). I know its discouraging, but its also not a real indicator

A lot of people lurk for various reasons. i tend not to log in unless i have quite a few things i want to say, not the least of reasons being this forum and my browser are not exactly on the best of terms.(it tried to eat this post once already)
I'm not likely to log in to make just one comment, or on every little thing i might want to comment on. I know i'm not alone on that.

but to answer your questions, and completely out of order(just to be difficult)

A setting you're familiar with, or an unfamiliar homebrew one? In the latter, how strong of a "gimmick" does it need, if at all? Also in the latter, how much lore do you want/tolerate? Is a separate lore database handy or just intimidating?
i'm not into gimmicks, especially a gimmick for the sake of a gimmick, thats a severe turn off. if it serves as a meaningful part of the story, and doesn't come of as contrived to force the story, thats fine and often appreciated. if its just fluff, that tends to be okay, but just a 'wow, thats wierd' gimmick doesn't grab my interest, and kills my interest when i realize thats what it is.
I personally loved the setup you had in your journal. The lore blocks were small, identified, so easily skipped if you didn't want to read them, and manageable, and offered in the session they were relevant to as i recall. I thought that was a wonderful setup on your part.
which brings up the point, i don't mind if it is unfamiliar, as long as i can be introduced to it relatively quickly and painlessly so i can get into the journal itself, the players playing.

How much detail do you prefer in the narration and descriptions? Do you prefer to discover information in the same way as the players, or just move along?

I am more of a move along kind of person. I'm not reading a book, i'm not role playing a character, i am reading a journal, "watching" others role play a character. so while a little is neccessary and helpful, i don't need everything the players get, and personally i am not overly fond of long flowery prose anymore even in books. if its helpful to know how players came a descision, or something along those lines, thats fine and welcome.


How quickly do you want to read through a journal? Obviously depends on the quality of it.
I'm not sure what you mean here? are you asking if we prefer to have a journal posted in its entirity as opposed to installments as you play them, or are you asking how long we prefer the journals to be in terms of information, descriptions and general bloat?


What about "idle" roleplay, stuff that doesn't necessarily move the story along (at least directly) but adds mood and depth to characters (or is hopefully entertaining in itself)?
What about short lines of OOC sprinkled in, to provide either comedy or information and context that would be awkward to convey IC? Are they just jarring?
Do you prefer conversations to be quoted or just summarized? Not every grocery trip deserves a full dialogue, obviously, but you get what I mean.

To quote slappy squirrel here "Oh yeah, we'll have 'em in hysterics with that bit. Six minutes in a checkout line. Ooh, somebody stop me. I'm laughin'."

Something very enjoyable(and a little scary to be honest) from the necroranchers was seeing the demented minds of kaveman26s' players work, especially when it was figuring out how to get out of the latest mess their previous antics had gotten them into. seeing those in character and out of character conversations quoted, was a nice part of that journal. But alot of their mundane interactions were funny, or gave insights into their role play and thought process. I definitely appreciated it, (also some of kaveman26's reactions to them were humorous.) but i am generally happy when most things are simply summerized.
Its a judgement call. If the discussion itself is intelligent and interesting, or funny, i like the quotes and the detailed back and forth, The summaries often don't do those justice. But if the discussion is straight forward, doesn't offer insight, a summary works.


something i will add, that i didn't feel fit with any of the above. while i don't think anyone wants a roll by roll, one thing i appreciate from curious-puzzle is the occassional offerings of how events are unfolding dice wise. In "the curse of artaith" journal its mentioned when someone is rolling a string of natural 20s, or never rolling above a 3, or getting brutal damage scores, that kind of thing, just a quick little interjection here and there. I like to know why events are going the way they are going, especially when descriptions can make it seem like the players are at deaths door and then suddenly make a win. Theres nothing wrong if its dm fiat/roll fudging/ deus ex machina, for the sake of the game, i just like to know thats whats happening.

[SilverLeaf167]

Thanks for your encouragement! Once again, just to make absolutely sure the next campaign journal doesn't turn into an awkward one-shot, I'll wait a couple of sessions before posting the journals I'm writing, but since I'm writing them anyway, even a little interest is enough. We're aiming for a weekly/bi-weekly schedule, and the first session this week went really well.


How quickly do you want to read through a journal? Obviously depends on the quality of it.
I'm not sure what you mean here? are you asking if we prefer to have a journal posted in its entirity as opposed to installments as you play them, or are you asking how long we prefer the journals to be in terms of information, descriptions and general bloat?

Yeah, that was a pretty vague question. I probably meant it as a combination of several other things, mostly just the amount of text in each entry, and at what point is an entry (bloated or not) long enough that sheer length becomes an issue. Kinda redundant, really.

I've written the first entry for the next journal, and the general level of description is pretty similar to the last, but the campaign itself is pretty roleplay-heavy, so there's a lot of dialogue... and there being a lot of dialogue means character personality becomes even more important, and there being a lot of NPCs means there's a lot of personalities, and you get where I'm going with this. The start's a bit rough with so many introductions and exposition, obviously, but I'm hopefully making it work.

[wobner]

A roleplay heavy journal is a bit trickier in regards to deciding what to keep and what to discard as banal, its not like just dropping dice rolls. Good luck and i look forward to reading it.

What i mostly enjoy seeing is a world suited to the players style of interaction, with a dm who can adapt and adjust to those interactions as needed. Not that all those interactions are equally entertaining, but still. I like to see the fun and interest the players are showing in the game shine through in the journal. just to give some examples, just a few cause the search function is failing me. Kaveman26's necroranchers(he has a few others that are good reads as well, in his signiture) kidjake who lets his players run absolutely rampant, and whose antics are usually interesting if not amusing(they go a little far sometimes). curious-puzzle and the curse of the artaith is interesting especially for its advisarily nature. djroboninja's is especially interesting as while his players are new, they are both quick to learn and seem quite invested.
there are a couple others i'd point out but my memory and the search engine aren't cooperating.

including anything that conveys that interest and amusement to me, the reader, is usually a plus.

[Kol Korran]

Hey Silverleaf. I've been interested in campaign logs myself (I've also written a few, though not very popular, most likely due to length and too much detail). A few thoughts on the matter:
1. The goal Writing a log with the objective of getting lots of responses is... not a good reason to write it. As above posters have mentioned, even if many people look at/ read the log, but a small fraction will comment. In my opinion, wiritng the log should be it'sown reward- it helps thinking about the game more, whether in order to understand experiences better, or to plan ahead. It's great for future reading, once you're no longer in the game (I have at times went back to past logs, to check upon an idea or experience, and so do some of my players). As a DM it can be a very powerful reflection tool, for yourself, but also from the comments of others (You don't need a lot of comments for that).

2. The writing iteslf: Good logs usually have a few things in common, regarding writing style:
- They are clear: This is very important- the reader can easily understand the gist of who are the characters, what is their "shtick", what's the situation at hand, and what's important about it. A lot of logs (Part of mine included) either elaborate on too many minor things, or are not that clear/ vague/ lacking in major issues. Know when to "zoom in" and "zoom out".
- Pacing: Not of the posting, but of the reading. When you read them, you don't start to get bogged down in descriptions, thoughts and the like. You get what's going, maybe some thoughts/ humor/ anecdotes on the matter, and then it moves on... Most people who read logs do so for fun and inspiration, not the minutiae of the sessions.
- They feel personal: When you read a good gaming log, you feel a bit like the writer is talking to you, you can feel him/her a bit. You can feel Kaveman's frustration/ amusement from his groups shenanigens, you can feel Kidjake's scheming mind, and so on. You feel the narrator.

3. About content: Readers are looking for fun gaming experiences. So a few things are common here as well:
- A good gaming group. I'm mostly talking about great group dynamics- either cooperative, or there might be conflict, but it's done in an amusing and entertaining way. Conflict may be between the PCs, but the PLAYERS ae working well together. No table drama.
- Interesting situations, and interesting ways of dealing with them. Situations that may make the reader think "man! What would I do then?" and then see the players coming out with something of their own. Twists and turns keeps it all interesting, eh?
- Tension! A group that just stream rolls over everything, or that continuously fails, makes for a boring/ depressing read. But keeping things tense, keep people coming for more.
- OOC is as important (If not more) than IC. People usually like to read about the GAME, not the STORY. As such, the thoughts, responses and such of the players, not just PCs, and at times touching the way the game ffect play and choices, is important.

4. Well known material?
A special mention is of well known, and often played modules, such as Red Hand of Doom, Rise of The Rune Lords, Kingmaker and such... These often draw a crowd of either DMs or players who played the same thing, and wish to see how others do it. It doesn't makes a journal great, but it's a different sort of writing, where people often look to see how others fared the same challenges, how they do things differently ,and how they fix problems they've had.

Yet still, in the end, as a campaign writer, I think you need to draw satisfaction from the writing itself, for yourself and your group, and only then from the internet crowd.

Just my thoughts... :smallwink:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

First and foremost, it has to be conversational story-telling, for me. I still hold up SilverClawShift's campaign journals (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?116836-The-SilverClawShift-Campaign-Archives) from '07 and and '09 as ideal examples. They were mostly story-telling, with enough background info on how things were playing out on the table to make us feel like we were there at the table with her. She's not writing a novel or a piece of fiction, ignoring that it's a game, she writes what she was feeling and hearing PLAYING this game, including dramatic rolls, dramatic gameplay changes, and when her fellow players and DMs reacted OOC in an especially great way. A good campaign journal shouldn't just tell you the plot, it should give you practical ideas on how to run a game, when the music was especially good, when a dramatic pause was good, when a character was especially memorable and what made it memorable.

Baroness Nerak's Actual Plays of various Chronicles of Darkness games are interesting, because she uses it to reinforce what her PLAYERS find important. Every session, they write an in-character write-up of what had happened in the session, and she posts them side-by-side, showing how different characters (and players) interpreted what was happening. I especially recommend her Demon: the Descent AP, "Night Train Detective Agency (http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/demon-the-descent/268069-demon-night-train-detective-agency-actual-play)", a noir detective story with 4 techno-gnostic demons, and her crossover The Golden Eagle (http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/465832-chronicles-of-darkness-the-golden-eagle-actual-play), a noir heist story with a vampire, two werewolves, three changelings, and a Sin-Eater (a man returned to death by a small death-god who rides inside him).

[SilverLeaf167]

Hey, and thanks for your answers as well!


@ Kol Korran: Oh, don't worry, I'm definitely writing for myself and the group first and foremost. As I briefly mentioned, I'd be writing these journals even if I didn't post them over here, as you're entirely correct that they're a great way for both the DM and the players to sum up the session (plus who doesn't love reading about themselves?). I'm a writer by trade hobby anyway, so it's a great way for me to spend time and maybe practice a bit.

Also, as I said, "at the risk of sounding whiny". :smalltongue: I'm not too worried about the lack of responses, they just made me wonder if there was something I could/should improve. You're right, internet responses don't really do anything, at least not on a message board like this.

I'm kind of wondering how to best incorporate OOC material with IC, because in my own writing (not necessarily other people's) I feel like it breaks the flow to abruptly shift between the two. Some of it will be included in a separate commentary section , but I know that's not really the same thing as reading it "in the moment". I think the journal I'm writing now does an alright job conveying the gist of certain OOC subjects through IC narration (descriptions standing in for die rolls etc.), but it's obviously hard for me to tell how it works for someone who wasn't at the table.

@ Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll: I've definitely read SCS's journals, and really loved them. I think they were my original motivation for giving it a shot myself. I'll look into your other suggestions when I have the time, they sound pretty neat.


I was thinking of probably making the thread about a week from now, when we'll hopefully have two-and-a-half sessions under our belt (the second was kinda special), but I should have the first two ready in a couple of days. I feel like third session would help get things rolling, but I suppose that applies to most campaigns? I'm probably just overthinking it and could just post the first two when they're ready. Opinions?

[Cluedrew]

Although a campaign log is not a standard novel by any means, I think there are things to be learned from the "standard novel".

For instance I don't think that there is one correct answer. My favourite campaign logs vary in some very significant ways. They also have some significant similarities, mostly that they are the kind of story I enjoy. For instance (although they are not campaign logs per say) I enjoy battle reports where the only characterisation is the out of character jokes the players make. On the other hand I can't remember what system one of my favourite campaign logs is played in, because it was mentioned once in the background information or something like that.

The other easy one we can knock out is that it must be well written. All the general things you can apply to other stories (especially those of a similar medium) can and should be applied here. Of course that is a whole topic onto itself.

[Brion]

I think there are 3 areas for me that make the journals. Even if the plot is not that interesting, these items can overcome that.

1. Don't be too heavy on mechanical descriptions of battles. We don't need to know every dice roll, every spell cast, etc. Most of the time "the BSF made it to the sorcerer and cut him to pieces" is enough. It's a tricky line though, because sometimes a battle hinges on one die roll and knowing that Generic Hero made his will save on the exact number of the DC adds some extra feeling of excitement.

2. The players need to have personality in their characters and make interesting decisions. A lot of people here will point at Kaveman's journals for this.

3. The DM's ability to wing it when the players do make strange decisions. KidJake and Kaveman's group are masters of this.


One thing I absolutely do not like is drastic over-description of a scene in a journal. "The elf mage held her head high and confidently as she entered the inn. With her cloak swirling from the wind in the doorway, she blahblahblah..." Fun stuff at the table, not so much when documenting for others.

[SilverLeaf167]

-snip-

Well, though I say so myself, that sounds like you should be able to enjoy my journal once I do post it. :smallwink:

[ComaVision]

Let me provide a little context before I answer your questions: I read primarily from a DM and mechanics perspective. I'm hoping to glean insights and ideas that I can incorporate into my own games. That said, interesting narrative certainly improves the experience.

Looking at your previous journal, I quite like how it's laid out. I probably would've read it had I noticed it while it was active.



How much detail do you prefer in the narration and descriptions? Do you prefer to discover information in the same way as the players, or just move along?
Most of the time, I'd prefer it's kept light.


Related to the above: Do you prefer conversations to be quoted or just summarized? Not every grocery trip deserves a full dialogue, obviously, but you get what I mean.
It depends on its importance. If it's a pivotal and delicate conversation, I'd probably like to read the whole thing. Most of the time, I'd be happy to just here who they talked to and what the bottom line of that conversation was.


What about "idle" roleplay, stuff that doesn't necessarily move the story along (at least directly) but adds mood and depth to characters (or is hopefully entertaining in itself)?
I can definitely confirm that my favourite campaign logs had player characters I enjoyed because of how their personality shined through. I have felt a lot of tension reading about a close fight when I really like one of the player characters. It has the whole Game of Thrones feel where an important, main character might just die at any time.


What about short lines of OOC sprinkled in, to provide either comedy or information and context that would be awkward to convey IC? Are they just jarring?
Personally, OOC comedy never "gets" me and I could pass. OOC information/context can be pretty important though. I'm not trying to be immersed in the story though. I'm almost always reading campaign logs while trying to apply the good ideas to my own games.


How quickly do you want to read through a journal? Obviously depends on the quality of it.
Definitely depends on the quality of it but I'm personally fine with novel length as long as it's actually interesting. Kol Korran writes some very lengthly posts and I happily read through them all in his Wrath of the Righteous log.


A setting you're familiar with, or an unfamiliar homebrew one? In the latter, how strong of a "gimmick" does it need, if at all? Also in the latter, how much lore do you want/tolerate? Is a separate lore database handy or just intimidating?
I don't have a preference for a familiar or unfamiliar setting. I'm not going to do a lot of reading on the setting though, that has to be cliff-notes or interspersed in the rest of the log or I'll just ignore it.

I don't need a gimmick. Actually, I think too strong of a gimmick would put me off.

Hopefully I didn't miss the point of any of your questions. My favourite campaign log to date is definitely Kol Korran's Wrath of the Righteous log. I really liked the paladin character (which was unfortunately retired) and KK's a good writer as well. In addition, KK frequently talked about challenges and goals, both narrative and mechanical. He talked about what things worked and didn't work with his group. It was like watching an episode of a TV show then having the behind the scenes as well but they were separated enough that someone only interested in the narrative could have skipped that stuff.

[Hawkstar]

I realized that, of the journals I read (All Guardsman Party, Hot Mech-on-Mech Action, and Three Birds/Two Coins/Gilded Sword, they all have different things going for them.

First off - A unique premise. I actually overlooked Three Coins because I saw the title, and assumed it would be just a somewhat generic fantasy romp. Meanwhile, there's Mechs in BladeOfOblivion's story (Rare on these forums), and All Guardsman Party is a pretty cool twist on what was Only War for just the prologue, before going Dark Heresy.

The No Context Campaign Quotes is golden for advertising. That's how I got into Three Coins (I went back and read ALL those threads.)

I might post more later.

[SilverLeaf167]

I made the thread now! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?512078-The-Brazen-Helm-Campaign-Journal-D-amp-D-3-P&p=21598920) The first one-and-a-half sessions should be coming up shortly.