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View Full Version : DM Help Bargaining With a Hag: Is this a Fair Drawback?



Astofel
2017-01-10, 11:58 PM
Yeah I know the title doesn't make much sense, bargains with hags are supposed to bite people in the ass, yadda yadda. But my players are likely to encounter one in the next couple of sessions, and their goal is to make it leave, either by killing it or bargaining with it. The first option is probably more likely, but a good DM is always prepared, right?

I had the idea for the hag to ask for 'a piece of your luck' in exchange for something. Yes, I stole that from Critical Role. What missing a piece of your luck would entail, for me, is this: the next time you fall to 0 HP, instead of making death saving throws, you die outright. To me this makes sense because all the monsters the PCs kill don't get death saves when they drop to 0, so the PCs must have some kind of 'luck' to potentially stay alive beyond that point. On the other hand, it does seem a little harsh to just drop a 'surprise, you're dead!' on a PC like that, even if they did bargain with a hag. On the OTHER other hand, it may not ever come up if the right person makes the bargain. I should also add that although the party has two potential characters who can rez (cleric and paladin) resurrection isn't a guaranteed thing in my game, since I use Matt Mercer's rules for resurrection.

So what do you guys think? Is this a reasonable drawback for a hag's bargian to have? If you were running a hag, what sort of bargains would you have them make?

Nishant
2017-01-11, 12:07 AM
Yeah I know the title doesn't make much sense, bargains with hags are supposed to bite people in the ass, yadda yadda. But my players are likely to encounter one in the next couple of sessions, and their goal is to make it leave, either by killing it or bargaining with it. The first option is probably more likely, but a good DM is always prepared, right?

I had the idea for the hag to ask for 'a piece of your luck' in exchange for something. Yes, I stole that from Critical Role. What missing a piece of your luck would entail, for me, is this: the next time you fall to 0 HP, instead of making death saving throws, you die outright. To me this makes sense because all the monsters the PCs kill don't get death saves when they drop to 0, so the PCs must have some kind of 'luck' to potentially stay alive beyond that point. On the other hand, it does seem a little harsh to just drop a 'surprise, you're dead!' on a PC like that, even if they did bargain with a hag. On the OTHER other hand, it may not ever come up if the right person makes the bargain. I should also add that although the party has two potential characters who can rez (cleric and paladin) resurrection isn't a guaranteed thing in my game, since I use Matt Mercer's rules for resurrection.

So what do you guys think? Is this a reasonable drawback for a hag's bargian to have? If you were running a hag, what sort of bargains would you have them make?

Rather than being dead outright, I'd recommend either a higher DC, or disadvantage on death saving throws, but that's just me.

some guy
2017-01-11, 05:17 AM
I'd say the consequence is right for dealing with a hag, but the communication of the consequence is not right. If I, as a player, was told my pc would have less luck, I would expect for disadvantage on some rolls or fumbles on a 1, that sort of thing; not the removal of death saves.
Maybe something like "Life will not care about you anymore, and death will hasten it's call.".

Cespenar
2017-01-11, 05:30 AM
No offense, but the instadeath idea is pretty un-fun.

Instead, for a weaker yet psychologically more striking effect, try this: whenever the player rolls a 20, he must reroll that.

ShikomeKidoMi
2017-01-11, 05:45 AM
I think that's hag-like but not fair.

I'd make the player use some critical fumble rules for attacks and skill checks, instead.

SMac8988
2017-01-11, 07:42 AM
No offense, but the instadeath idea is pretty un-fun.

Instead, for a weaker yet psychologically more striking effect, try this: whenever the player rolls a 20, he must reroll that.

I would say this is a really nice option and I may steal it honestly. Make them confirm their crit like in previous additions. They will still have a chance to crit, but will drive the loss of luck thing home.

And it will come up enough the group will likely see it in that or the next session, which will then give then the goal of trying to fix it.

Beechgnome
2017-01-11, 08:53 AM
I like to reroll a 20 idea. If a halfling is making the deal, you could also have it so the next time he rolls a 1, he doesn't get a reroll. Throw some bad luck in there too.

Astofel
2017-01-11, 01:56 PM
I actually like the 'reroll 20s' option as well, so I think I'll go with that. Really drives home the point that dealing with hags is never a good idea. Of course, all this assumes they don't simply punch the hag's face in in typical adventurer style.

CursedRhubarb
2017-01-11, 03:00 PM
Wizard in my group ran into a similar situation. He bargained his soul to a coven of hags, thinking he could pocket an item they wanted him to get. DM has had fun with random effects of no soul, each session it changes. So far he's had disadvantage on all saves, unable to regain spell slots on a short rest and missing a random slot after a long rest. He now has a temporary soul and has to deal with being a LE Wizard with a LG soul. It's been fun and awesome watching him struggle with having a conscience in contrast to his character at the start, has led to a few interesting situations.

Fishyninja
2017-01-11, 03:46 PM
I like to reroll a 20 idea. If a halfling is making the deal, you could also have it so the next time he rolls a 1, he doesn't get a reroll. Throw some bad luck in there too.

I'm of the opinion that this would be the fairest option and again the idea of instadeath is not very fair on the player, even if it is made to clear to them. Another thing you could do is that if they have a magic item (say a +1 dagger for example) it becomes a cursed item so it has a negative modifer or a minor ailment used for the cursed items in the PHB?

Videkus
2017-01-11, 04:06 PM
Instant death is never fun unless you as a player are aware it's a real possibility.

If i were to do this, i'd instead grant the DM an inverse of the Lucky feat.
3x a day you can force the player to re-roll an attack/skill/save.

Or alternatively i'd use one of the charges to have something unlucky happen storywise.