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nonsi
2017-01-23, 03:21 AM
.

This is 3.5e remake of a monster appearing in an OD&D monster book.


Reflecter
Medium Construct-like Alien Humanoid (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 6d10+30 (63 hp)
Initiative: +4 (+4 Dex)
Speed: 40 ft.
Armor Class: 24 (+4 Dex, +10 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+14
Attack: Fist +10 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: 2 Fists +10 melee (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Energy Blast (6d6)
Special Qualities: Alien Mind, Bio-Isolated, Damage Reduction 10/epic and either Bludgeoning or Slashing, Extra Fast Healing, Fire Resistance 20, Immunity to Acid, Cold, and Electricity, Spell Deflection, Spell Immunity, Superior Vision
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Balance +6, Climb +8, Disable Device + 8, Escape Artist +6, Jump +8, Listen +6, Search +8, Spot +6, Survival +6
Feats: Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Trip
Environment: Any land, Unknown planar origin
Organization: Solitary, or Crew (2-5)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: Standard coins; triple items
Alignment: Neutral Good
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

Reflecters appear as mobile human statues made of perfectly reflective silvery metal. They wear no garb and use no weapons, though they may employ mechanical tools.

They communicate amongst themselves via telepathy. Although no real communication has ever been established with them beyond rudimentary gestures, these odd creatures are rumored to be visitors from the far future, "time travelling" to collect valuables.

Reflecters come from a far off world that was almost obliterated by magical wars. To guarantee their long term survival, they have spent centuries in research for augmenting their biology to resist magic and other hazards. They were too successful. In doing so, they over-compensated, rendering themselves restricted in their potential to explore and evolve. Since then, they've unsuccessfully spent eons in an attempt to regain some access to magic. They travel the multiverse, collecting magical items and dead magical creatures, researching them in an attempt to break the glass ceiling they have imposed upon themselves.

It is rumoured that treasure collected by reflecters is always neatly stored in chests and sacks, all tied together with rope. Once a large amount of treasure has been collected, all reflecters in a lair will gather during the next full moon, when they and the treasure all vanish at midnight. If magical treasure is stolen from them, reflecters will track the thieves and try to regain the items. However, if offered any book, map, or scroll (magical or otherwise) in exchange for a stolen magic item, reflecters may accept the substitution(s). They will not, however, accept such a trade for items already in their possession.

Reflecters are usually non-aggressive. Their vast array of immunities keeps them well protected. They will only attack to defend themselves and their treasure. They do not use weapons, armor, or shields.

Reflecters never acquire treasure through violence, though scholars say they are not above theft. They will, however, use any means available to reacquire their treasure from thieves, including violence.

Reflecters prefer to first subdue their opponents, wresting from their possession whatever treasure was stolen from them. If they have an option of leaving with their collected treasure, reflecters will choose retreat over killing their opponents or fighting to the death.

If a slain reflecter is found, it is encased in a hard shell filled with brain-like material, but has no other organs of any sort. 60 points of sundering damage must be inflicted before the shell can be opened (treat a reflecter's body as having a hardness of 10). A reflecter's shell retains all of its resistances, even after it is slain.

Combat

Should reflecters find themselves in combat with opponents that are too tough to subdue without significant risk, they resort to using their energy blast. When their energy blast is not available to them, reflecters strike with their powerful fists.

Alien Mind (Ex): A reflecter's alien mind and adaptable senses make it immune to all mental manipulation, with the exception of the use of Bluff, Diplomacy and Sleight of Hand.

Bio-Isolated (Ex): Reflecters are immune to poison, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, and energy drain. Furthermore, reflecters are not subject to precision damage, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, sickness, and nausea. Reflecters do not need to breathe, eat, or sleep though they may eat if they so choose.

Damage Reduction: A reflecter has DR 10/ epic and either Bludgeoning or Slashing.

Energy Blast (Su): A reflecter may make one Energy Blast attack as a standard action that doesn't provoke Attack of Opportunity. This blast may either appear as a 60-foot bolt, which acts as a lightning bolt originating from the reflecter's body, or as a 120-foot ray attack, which is a ranged touch attack. The attacks deal 1d6 points of damage per Hit Die of the reflecter. Half the damage dealt is Force damage; the other half is Cold, Fire or Electricity (DM's choice). The bolt allows a Reflex save (DC 15) for half damage. The ray has no save. The save DC is Wisdom-based. Once used, a reflecter's Energy Blast requires 1d4 rounds to recharge.

Energy Immunity(Ex): Reflecters are immune to acid, cold and electricity damage, and have fire resistance 20.

Extra Fast Healing (Ex): As Fast Healing 1 but reflectors automatically stabilize when at negative hit points.

Fists (Ex): A reflecter's fists strike like sledgehammers, ignoring Damage Reduction and hardness, and dealing full damage to objects.

Spell Deflection (Su): Spells and spell-like abilities cast directly at a reflecter are deflected away, striking the nearest creature within line of effect – including the caster – for full effect (as if the caster was standing in place of the reflecter when casting the spell). Gaze attacks in specific are always reflected back at the originator.

Spell Immunity (Ex): A reflecter ignores the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly target it. This works exactly like SR, except that it cannot be overcome. Despite being alive, a slain reflecter cannot be brought back from the dead and cannot be raised, reincarnated or resurrected. The spells below can directly affect reflecters in the manner listed:


Limited wish removes a reflecter's DR for 1 minute. Wish and miracle removes a reflecter's DR for 10 minutes. Wish cast by a deity also removes their spell immunity for 1 minute.
A gate spell affects them normally.
Spells that change the environment affect reflecters normally – provided that the environmental augmentation is not magical in and on itself. For example, a transmute rock to mud affects them normally, but they ignore solid fog.


Superior Vision (Ex): Reflecters' sensory capabilities are beyond the understanding of most mortals. Reflecters' sight stretches 4 times farther than that of humans, and they see in perfect darkness (including magical darkness) just as they would in full daylight.

Debihuman
2017-01-23, 06:53 AM
Yay a new monster! Thanks for posting it. I love monsters. This is neat but I see a lot of potential problems with it. Don't let that discourage you. It can be fixed. :smallsmile:

Before I can address other issues, it would really help if you would cite to the original source. What is it's original stats and which book is it from?

You first should decide if this is a construct (robots are constructs not Humanoid and don't have Constitution scores) or if this is an actual Humanoid. Humanoids with Construct traits wouldn't have a Constitution score. They would have all of the following (many of which are missing from your stat block) but are contradicted by the actual stat block.

The way to do this is Construct (Augmented Humanoid). It has traits from Construct but Features from Humanoid. This means deciding how to handle the things that are in conflict. It should have no Constitution score. It should have bonus hp based on its size.

The list below has the traits that it should have as a Construct. Of course, they can modified by other Special Abilities as See in Darkness is a more powerful version of Darkvision 60 ft. However, without seeing the original creature, there's no way to judge how well you adapted it to 3.5. Also, I never trusted TSR or WotC to make balanced creatures and they had notoriously error riddled stat blocks in every edition.


No Constitution score.
Low-light vision.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the table.
Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with no armor.
Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.


It seems to be lacking HD for the power level.

I think it is severely overpowered for 3 HD. While there is no set rule for equating CR with HD, HD are a factor in assessing a creature's CR. See VT's CR estimator below, which quite helpful.


#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.


I would give this more HD to stat. Also, as a construct at low HD, it probably should have more reasonable ability scores (but again without seeing the original creature, I cannot adequately judge what it should be)

If piercing damage is blocked, it should have DR 10/magic and either bludgeoning or slashing. 3 HD creatures should not require epic weapons since nobody at CR 5 will have them unless the DM is running a wildly overpowered campaign, in which case there is not point to trying to fix this at all.

Energy blast ranges are probably too long but again, I'd have to see the original monster.

Shattering touch should be Sp not Ex since it is based on the spell of that name. Also, the shattering effect in slam should be noted. Shatter only destroys nonmagical objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain so it's not likely to come into play very often. It can't affect armor or most weapons and it's not likely the PCs will be fighting with any of the materials listed.

The creature's energy blast is darned powerful 1d6 per HD. What is the DC of the save? DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + relevant ability modifier. Again at CR 5, the PCs should be able to make this save at least 50% of the time for this to be not a TPK.

More on this once I can see the original critter.

Debby

nonsi
2017-01-23, 10:19 AM
Yay a new monster! Thanks for posting it. I love monsters. This is neat but I see a lot of potential problems with it. Don't let that discourage you. It can be fixed. :smallsmile:


Hear me out and hold the thought of throwing new concepts out the window for a moment.





Before I can address other issues, it would really help if you would cite to the original source. What is it's original stats and which book is it from?


Don't remember the exact name of the book. I encountered it more than 5 years ago, copied and tweaked a lot. Regrettably I didn't write down the name or kept the original stats.

The original stats were something along:
- HD: 3-9
- AC: 0 (reminder: OD&D)
- Total immunity to magic
- Any attack that does affect a reflecter deals only 1 HP damage, regardless of its nature.
Everything else was vague and incomplete.




You first should decide if this is a construct (robots are constructs not Humanoid and don't have Constitution scores) or if this is an actual Humanoid. Humanoids with Construct traits wouldn't have a Constitution score. They would have all of the following (many of which are missing from your stat block) but are contradicted by the actual stat block.


Given the futuristic flavor of this creature, I was wondering to myself what should humans be like a million years from now, assuming we remain bipedal and avoid becoming machine-integrated life forms (nanotechnology excluded).
The description of the interior filled with a brain-like matter most definitely says they're alive and have a biology.
The exterior most definitely spells out "construct".
I was trying to integrate both concepts into one. Construct + Con-score was not an oversight. It's not standard, I know, but where else can we let our imagination soar free if not in the homebrew realm.





The way to do this is Construct (Augmented Humanoid). It has traits from Construct but Features from Humanoid. This means deciding how to handle the things that are in conflict. It should have no Constitution score. It should have bonus hp based on its size.


1. That would make it +20, I guess (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm).
2. If I go for that angle, then they're most surely destroyed at 0 HP - not very fitting for the ultimate ultra-evolved human.





The list below has the traits that it should have as a Construct. Of course, they can modified by other Special Abilities as See in Darkness is a more powerful version of Darkvision 60 ft. However, without seeing the original creature, there's no way to judge how well you adapted it to 3.5. Also, I never trusted TSR or WotC to make balanced creatures and they had notoriously error riddled stat blocks in every edition.


As can be understood from the above, I'm allowing myself to exceed the most accurate BECMI-->3.5e adaptation by quite a lot.






Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).



That one can be attributed to their alien mind rather than being a machine.






Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.


Why isn't Self Repair enough as a special quality then?





Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.


The idea is that it can't be raised because at least part of its biology is unaffected by magic.





Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.


That one seems covered.




It seems to be lacking HD for the power level.

I think it is severely overpowered for 3 HD. While there is no set rule for equating CR with HD, HD are a factor in assessing a creature's CR. See VT's CR estimator below, which quite helpful.


While rare, it is not unheard of that a creature would have CR that exceeds its HD by +2 (don't remember ever encountering CR = HD+3). This remake seems to me like a solid challenge for a decently built 5th level group of 4, so the CR seems reasonable ATM.
I know that CR 5 at 3HD is radically powerful, but if in its natural environment and world it has LA +5, then I think it's ok.
Again - this one's by no means a typical monster.






#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.



Seems to me like this translates to an awful lot of extra HD. Not sure I'd wanna go that way.




If piercing damage is blocked, it should have DR 10/magic and either bludgeoning or slashing. 3 HD creatures should not require epic weapons since nobody at CR 5 will have them unless the DM is running a wildly overpowered campaign, in which case there is not point to trying to fix this at all.


1. DR [X]/magic is way too easily overcome - even at 4th level. They should be way hardier than that.
2. How do I reconcile DR [X]/magic with "not affected by magic in any way"? (except for an extremely narrow range of specialized effects)
3. All you need for defeating them is to hack through their DR by dealing enough damage. Not trivial but definitely doable.





Shattering touch should be Sp not Ex since it is based on the spell of that name.


On any other occasion that would've been the approach I'd go for, but:
1. The power doesn't require a standard action to activate.
2. It doesn't provoke an AoO.
3. It shouldn't be susceptible to antimagic, given the nature of reflecters.





Also, the shattering effect in slam should be noted.


I thought I did(?)





Shatter only destroys nonmagical objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain so it's not likely to come into play very often. It can't affect armor or most weapons and it's not likely the PCs will be fighting with any of the materials listed.


True, but when it comes to describing their texture, the closest I could think of is "ceramic" – and they're specifically stated to be susceptible to the effect.





The creature's energy blast is darned powerful 1d6 per HD. What is the DC of the save? DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + relevant ability modifier. Again at CR 5, the PCs should be able to make this save at least 50% of the time for this to be not a TPK.


The difference between Int and Cha would amount to DC 13 vs. DC 11. Saving vs. DC 13 is better than 50% at 5th average party level, isn't it?

Debihuman
2017-01-23, 12:35 PM
I was trying to integrate both concepts into one. Construct + Con-score was not an oversight. It's not standard, I know, but where else can we let our imagination soar free if not in the homebrew realm.

I have no objection to this. However, then do not say they have Construct traits without prefacing that they only have some Construct traits.

Here are the changes to Construct traits that should be made since this has a Constitution Score.


No Constitution score. It has a Constitution score.
Low-light vision.* You need to decide whether to keep this or not.
Darkvision out to 60 feet. Replaced by See in Darkness
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). They are still affected by Supernatural abilities and are Intelligent so they should be affected by this unless those things are magical in nature.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.* Not sure which if any of these should apply. You could replace these with with a bonus to save against them rather than outright immunity.
Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.* You should substitute Self Repair for this.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.* With a Con score they should be subject to fatigue and exhaustion at least.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).* You need to decide if this stays or not.
Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less. * It is up to you to decide if this trait stays or not.
Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. This is alive since it has a Constitution score so it doesn't apply.
Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the table. This no longer applies. It should have hp based on its Con score.
Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with no armor.
Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe. It has a Con score so it should do these things.



1. DR [X]/magic is way too easily overcome - even at 4th level. They should be way hardier than that.
2. How do I reconcile DR [X]/magic with "not affected by magic in any way"? (except for an extremely narrow range of specialized effects)
3. All you need for defeating them is to hack through their DR by dealing enough damage. Not trivial but definitely doable.

Then look at other CR 5 monsters and compare this to them. That is how you balance monsters. Also VT's CR estimator is pretty good. This should be on par with a Mummy for example.

Futuristic campaigns are tricky. Usually low or no magic exists in futuristic settings since they are technology-based. Who needs magic when you have a blaster that can shoot massive damage or bombs that can bring down whole buildings? These aren't immune to static charges, radiation, concussive bomb damage and the like. Trying to shoehorn a futuristic creature into a quasi-Medieval setting can be difficult.

Is there a specific Futuristic setting that you are using or are you just making it up on the fly?

Debby

nonsi
2017-01-23, 05:03 PM
Is there a specific Futuristic setting that you are using or are you just making it up on the fly?


No futuristic settings in mind. I just like the concept and trying to make it work.
Players don't need to know everything. As long as the DM knows how things work and why, things are ok I guess.





I have no objection to this. However, then do not say they have Construct traits without prefacing that they only have some Construct traits.


Fair enough.






Low-light vision.* You need to decide whether to keep this or not.



Seems redundant with See In Darkness on. I'll change the name to something like "Superior Vision".






Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). They are still affected by Supernatural abilities and are Intelligent so they should be affected by this unless those things are magical in nature.



Partially.
1. They're not affected directly by magic.
2. Their minds are too different to be affected by morale effects or compulsion of any sort.
3. OTOH, I see no reason why they'd have any resistance to phantasms or patterns. The effect occurs somewhere else - they only perceive the (visual and auditory) side effects of those effects.






Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.* Not sure which if any of these should apply. You could replace these with with a bonus to save against them rather than outright immunity.



All, I guess. These are all physical immunities. Physically speaking, as far as the outside world is concerned, a reflecter is a construct.






Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.* You should substitute Self Repair for this.



Fast Healing it is then.






Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.* With a Con score they should be subject to fatigue and exhaustion at least.



I see your point, but I remember a class here and there that gave immunities to both. Since they're not affected by spells directly, this should happen only due to natural factors (over exertion, sleep deprivation etc).






Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).* You need to decide if this stays or not.



With everything going for them, this can be omitted w/o too much worries.






Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less. * It is up to you to decide if this trait stays or not.



I don't see those as mutually inclusive.
I tend to say Yes for the first and No for the second.






Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe. It has a Con score so it should do these things.



May be it does, but in a way that doesn't require devoting separate time for it.





Then look at other CR 5 monsters and compare this to them. That is how you balance monsters. Also VT's CR estimator is pretty good. This should be on par with a Mummy for example.


Reflecters are tough, but they have no SoS abilities, so I guess things even up. Maybe reflecters are a bit stronger, which would require 4HD (and CR 6) to begin with.





Trying to shoehorn a futuristic creature into a quasi-Medieval setting can be difficult.


Hence P.E.A.C.H.

Debihuman
2017-01-24, 05:21 AM
Doh! Give it the Living Construct Subtype. It's from Eberron. I totally spaced on it. That's how the warforged work. It would be perfect for a Reflector as well, except it would need a class rather than rely on racial HD. That's if you want to go that route. What do you think?

Debby

Debihuman
2017-01-24, 09:46 AM
Living Constructs use class levels rather than racial die usually but I'm messing around with this if you don't mind. I have added more Hit Dice and am adding in special abilities.


Living Construct Traits
A living construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

Unlike other constructs, a living construct has a Constitution score. A living construct does not gain bonus hit points by size but gains (or loses) bonus hit points through a Constitution bonus (or penalty) as with other living creatures.
Unlike other constructs, a living construct does not have low-light vision or darkvision. See in Darkness is better
Unlike other constructs, a living construct is not immune to mind-influencing effects.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain.
A living construct cannot heal damage naturally. It has Fast Healing 1
Unlike other constructs, living constructs are subject to critical hits, effects requiring a Fort save, death from massive damage, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects. Since you wanted to keep the reflecter to be immune to these things, I added Armored Casing. I think the spell immunity covers the necromancy effects as well.
Unlike other constructs, a living construct can use the run action.
Living constructs can be affected by spells that target living creatures as well as by those that target constructs.
A living construct responds slightly differently from other living creatures when reduced to 0 hit points. A living construct with 0 hit points is disabled, just like a living creature. He can only take a single move action or standard action in each round, but strenuous activity does not risk further injury. When his hit points are less than 0 and greater than -10, a living construct is inert. He is unconscious and helpless, and he cannot perform any actions. However, an inert living construct does not lose additional hit points unless more damage is dealt to him, as with a living creature that is stable.
Can be raised or resurrected.* Amended by magic immunity
Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items such as heroes' feast and potions. *Amended by Magic Immunity.
Does not need to sleep, but must rest for 8 hours before preparing spells

.

nonsi
2017-01-24, 06:12 PM
.
Hey Deb.

First of all, I wanna thank you for the time and effort.


I'm curious about what measurement formula you're using, because your version is vastly inferior to mine in terms of power.
According to my estimation, it's a walk in the park for a 5th-level party of Fighter-Rogue-Cleric-Wizard.
The fighter alone would most likely win the damage race one-on-one: 2d6 + 4(Str) + 2(Spec) + 1(magic) = 14 damage avg before employing Bless, Bull's Strength, PA etc.
I'm getting the feeling you got CR and LA mixed up here, because I can't imagine how your version could remotely measure up to something like say a Quesar (BoED, p.180).

I still think that a single specimen of my version could pose a solid (but not overwhelming) challenge to a decently built 5th-level party of Fighter-Rogue-Cleric-Wizard - especially with environment manipulating spells, illusions and in-combat healing. And who said you have to fight them at all? They're practically begging you not to make them hurt you.



That said, let's see what I can make out of your analysis . . .



Just a note: The name Reflecter was not a typo or ignorance. A reflector is a device that's manipulated (manually or mechanically) to reflect a beam of light. A reflecter is a monster that's reflective from any direction.






Unlike other constructs, a living construct has a Constitution score. A living construct does not gain bonus hit points by size but gains (or loses) bonus hit points through a Constitution bonus (or penalty) as with other living creatures.
Unlike other constructs, a living construct does not have low-light vision or darkvision.
Unlike other constructs, a living construct is not immune to mind-influencing effects.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain.
A living construct cannot heal damage naturally.
Unlike other constructs, living constructs are subject to critical hits, effects requiring a Fort save, death from massive damage, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects.
Unlike other constructs, a living construct can use the run action.
Living constructs can be affected by spells that target living creatures as well as by those that target constructs. Damage dealt to a living construct can be healed by a cure light wounds spell or a repair light damage spell, for example, and a living construct is vulnerable to a harm spell. However, spells from the healing subschool provide only half effect to a living construct.
A living construct responds slightly differently from other living creatures when reduced to 0 hit points. A living construct with 0 hit points is disabled, just like a living creature. He can only take a single move action or standard action in each round, but strenuous activity does not risk further injury. When his hit points are less than 0 and greater than -10, a living construct is inert. He is unconscious and helpless, and he cannot perform any actions. However, an inert living construct does not lose additional hit points unless more damage is dealt to him, as with a living creature that is stable.
Can be raised or resurrected.
Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items such as heroes' feast and potions.
Does not need to sleep, but must rest for 8 hours before preparing spells



In general, I'm thinking of specifying what it does have rather than specifying the differences from regular constructs.
I'd like to think of them as bio-enhanced (bio-modified via nanotechnology and futuristic ceramic materials) rather than machine-integrated.






Unlike other constructs, a living construct has a Constitution score. A living construct does not gain bonus hit points by size but gains (or loses) bonus hit points through a Constitution bonus (or penalty) as with other living creatures.



Ok.







Unlike other constructs, a living construct is not immune to mind-influencing effects.



That's partly true in my case. All depends if the effects are direct or are side effects. No for the former (e.g. compulsion), yes for the latter (e.g. phantasms and patterns).
It has an alien mind, but no special training figuring out ruses.






Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain.



Yes.






A living construct cannot heal damage naturally.



Fast Healing renders this one moot. If it didn't have it, it would heal normally.






Unlike other constructs, living constructs are subject to critical hits, effects requiring a Fort save, death from massive damage, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects.



That's a definite no no. The outer shell makes it as hardy as any classic construct.






Unlike other constructs, a living construct can use the run action.



Definitely. Practically goes w/o saying.






Living constructs can be affected by spells that target living creatures as well as by those that target constructs. Damage dealt to a living construct can be healed by a cure light wounds spell or a repair light damage spell, for example, and a living construct is vulnerable to a harm spell. However, spells from the healing subschool provide only half effect to a living construct.



IIRC, the original monster was 100% immune to magic of any sort.







A living construct responds slightly differently from other living creatures when reduced to 0 hit points. A living construct with 0 hit points is disabled, just like a living creature. He can only take a single move action or standard action in each round, but strenuous activity does not risk further injury. When his hit points are less than 0 and greater than -10, a living construct is inert. He is unconscious and helpless, and he cannot perform any actions. However, an inert living construct does not lose additional hit points unless more damage is dealt to him, as with a living creature that is stable.



Yes.






Can be raised or resurrected.



Not if it's innately resistant to magic.






Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items such as heroes' feast and potions.



Ditto.
Cannot benefit from magic at all.






Does not need to sleep, but must rest for 8 hours before preparing spells



Ditto.


Effectively, it's like the monster version of the Forsaker, with the exception that it doesn't have a say on the matter. Thinking of it, collecting magical items for study seems appropriate for a society that had lost access to magic, struggling for eons to reclaim that access.




Regarding your monster makeup:
- I tend to go along with limiting Shattering Touch to 3 times per day. A group would have more than it would ever need.
- As for being affected by rust - I couldn't object more strongly. It defies all common sense regarding materials in use far into the future.
- The creature's reflectiveness is not brought into expression in any meaningful way that I could notice in your design. I do notice that gaze attacks in specific should be reflected back at the source, not the nearest target.

Debihuman
2017-01-24, 08:22 PM
You're welcome.

I'm not using a measurement formula yet. It needs more HD to be finished, that's why it is in a spoiler. I'm going to give it more HD and then adjust again. It has too many special abilities to justify 3 HD. The Quesar has 8 HD so there is still a lot to do. I'm thinking 6 HD for CR 5. That will give it more oomph.

I still think it is overpowered for CR 5 but it would need to be playtested to be sure. It has a boatload of immunities.

I haven't played with a living construct and its rules in a while so I'm gonna mess with it before I get into more things. Rust affects even adamantine. And rusting grasp affects even magical metal.

I'll fix the name of the creature as well.

As I said this is still a work in progress. Now I think it is complete.

Debby

Debihuman
2017-01-24, 11:05 PM
Updated the Reflecter as per Nonsi. I think this incorporates more of what you wanted. What do you think? It still needs telepathy and teleport to match the fluff. This is more powerful than a Quesar now since it is immune to the disintegration and can reflect it back at the quesar. I'm setting this to CR 6. It is not suitable as a PC. The quesar does more slam damage but this is a defensive build creature. Basically this will drag out fights and should just teleport away but you left that out.

I still think it is overpowered. It has 18 different immunities if I counted them correctly: Immunity to Cold, Immunity to Magic, Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain, immune to critical hits, effects requiring a Fort save, death from massive damage, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects.

My gut feeling is that it should have at least 3 more HD to justify the sheer number of immunities.

The text fluff has them able to teleport away but is not reflected in the stat block. Still awaiting on this.

Debby

nonsi
2017-01-25, 02:08 PM
.
Ok, this is starting to come closer to where I'm aiming.


Let's see what requires changes.

18 different immunities sounds like a lot, but in the big picture they don't really synergize. It's enough that a target is immune to 3 out of your 3 SoS effects to be practically immune to all your tricks. Regular constructs have a lot of immunities w/o it making their CR shoot through the roof.

I can live with 6HD base... it also solves their DR issue quite nicely. but what does that mean about their level advancement, 7-12?

Given they have 6HD, I'm considering replacing their Slam attack with 2 punches. 1 x 1d6+4 @ 6DH seems too little to me.

I think your proposed save stats imply that reflecters have all bad saves. Reminder: they're construct-like, not actual constructs.

Energy Immunity - still gonna go for all except Force and sonic effects (which don't allow SR) . . . and no Slow effect.

Spell Immunity - I'm sticking to my original plans here, just trying to figure out which magical effects can be useful against them beyond what was already specified. Most probably environment changing spells (including Grease). Cure/Repair have no effect on them either.

Spell Reflection - a reflecter has no control over who's targeted by spell reflection.


I'm figuring that in the overall picture, this would put them at about CR 7 (maybe 8).

Debihuman
2017-01-25, 05:42 PM
.
Ok, this is starting to come closer to where I'm aiming.


Let's see what requires changes.

18 different immunities sounds like a lot, but in the big picture they don't really synergize. It's enough that a target is immune to 3 out of your 3 SoS effects to be practically immune to all your tricks. Regular constructs have a lot of immunities w/o it making their CR shoot through the roof.

I can live with 6HD base... it also solves their DR issue quite nicely. but what does that mean about their level advancement, 7-12?

Given they have 6HD, I'm considering replacing their Slam attack with 2 punches. 1 x 1d6+4 @ 6DH seems too little to me.

I think your proposed save stats imply that reflecters have all bad saves. Reminder: they're construct-like, not actual constructs.

Energy Immunity - still gonna go for all except Force and sonic effects (which don't allow SR) . . . and no Slow effect.

Spell Immunity - I'm sticking to my original plans here, just trying to figure out which magical effects can be useful against them beyond what was already specified. Most probably environment changing spells (including Grease). Cure/Repair have no effect on them either.

Spell Reflection - a reflecter has no control over who's targeted by spell reflection.


I'm figuring that in the overall picture, this would put them at about CR 7 (maybe 8).

1. Punches are unarmed strikes (so are kicks). Medium creatures only do 1d3 points of nonlethal damage unless you give them levels of monk (or other class that does the same). It doesn't matter what Type or material the thing has or is made of. You would have to create another special ability to change it.


Unarmed Strike
A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at her option. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

2. Their Type is Construct and Subtype is Living. According to the rules, Constructs get all bad saves. The Living Subtype doesn't change the rule. I don't make the rules but I do follow them. If you want to create a new Type of creature then do that first. Or you can make up a new Subtype. Go for it. I'm just cleaning up what you posted using the rules as written.

3. Go for it. Whatever energy immunity you give them is fine. Generally sonic and force are poor choices unless you want a TPK.

4. Spell Reflection is a standard Ability. Don't make it harder to DM. Random stuff takes too long in combat and these will already take too long and stop being fun quickly. How is it going to reflect other than in a straight line?

What CR are you actually aiming for? Because this thing could be trainwreck in the hands of some DMs.

Last of all, your stats don't reflect the text. How do they teleport with their treasure at Midnight and where do they go? Why midnight? How far is their telepathy?

Frankly, this is getting too weird even for me. I wish you luck with it.

nonsi
2017-01-26, 10:09 AM
1. Punches are unarmed strikes (so are kicks). Medium creatures only do 1d3 points of nonlethal damage unless you give them levels of monk (or other class that does the same). It doesn't matter what Type or material the thing has or is made of. You would have to create another special ability to change it.


Gocha.
I did notice yesterday that MMII has a mdium-sized 3HD earth monster that has 2 slam attacks. Before I jump the gun on this one, I'm gonna make sure that there are other such cases and that the mentioned case is not a design flaw.
Either case, I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it, since physical attacks are just contingency for the primary attack mode.





2. Their Type is Construct and Subtype is Living. According to the rules, Constructs get all bad saves. The Living Subtype doesn't change the rule. I don't make the rules but I do follow them. If you want to create a new Type of creature then do that first. Or you can make up a new Subtype. Go for it. I'm just cleaning up what you posted using the rules as written.


No, no. No need to complicate things. Given the Reflecter's defensive suit, I'm fine with all bad saves.





3. Go for it. Whatever energy immunity you give them is fine. Generally sonic and force are poor choices unless you want a TPK.


With DR cut down to size, I doubt that's the primary factor that will provoke TPKs. If a 4-char 7th level party can't handle a single reflecter w/ reasonable chances of success, then that party is truly poorly built. It may be a hard nut to crack, but it doesn't carry heavy artillery (SoS, env. manipulations, wide are effects, side effects, conditions, action economy abuse, hyper-mobility etc).





4. Spell Reflection is a standard Ability. Don't make it harder to DM. Random stuff takes too long in combat and these will already take too long and stop being fun quickly. How is it going to reflect other than in a straight line?


Instead of the originator - the closest target. I see no special complication here.
I didn't say anything about it not being a straight line. Maybe it would be appropriate to state "closest target within line of effect".





What CR are you actually aiming for? Because this thing could be trainwreck in the hands of some DMs.


Assuming we're talking about 6HD - CR7 or CR8.





Last of all, your stats don't reflect the text. How do they teleport with their treasure at Midnight and where do they go? Why midnight? How far is their telepathy?


Maybe they "phone home" :smallsmile:
I'm ok with leaving this one vague and making it so that if they're gone you can't follow them.





Frankly, this is getting too weird even for me. I wish you luck with it.


So far your feedbacks have been temendeously helpful :smallcool:

nonsi
2017-01-27, 09:27 AM
.
The Reflecter has been updated, taking the above exchange into account.

Debihuman
2017-01-27, 09:52 AM
Gocha.
I did notice yesterday that MMII has a medium-sized 3HD earth monster that has 2 slam attacks. Before I jump the gun on this one, I'm gonna make sure that there are other such cases and that the mentioned case is not a design flaw.
Either case, I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it, since physical attacks are just contingency for the primary attack mode.

First, a slam is not the same as a punch. Second, MMII is not 3.5 compliant, as it is 3.0 which used slightly different rules. It was never updated to 3.5 but WotC released an update for it (and it didn't even included all the changes but most are easy fixes). One of the newer rules was that only Large or larger Constructs had 2 slam attacks. That said, I see no problems with giving a Medium Construct 2 slams (or in this case fists). THAT's how bending the rules works :smallsmile:

I'm not a fan of iterative attacks on natural weapons. That's a breaking point for me and most DMs because it loses verisimilitude. Give it more appendages or haste it.


So far your feedbacks have been temendeously helpful :smallcool:

Always glad to help. I realized I was going in a direction that you didn't intend so I've removed all the stat blocks I created (they were mostly to give you ideas and to showcase what wasn't working). I didn't want to step on your toes.

The Full Attack line should read: Full Attack: 2 fists +10 melee (1d8+4).

Alien Mind, Bio-Isolated, Fists, and Immunity to Energy should be Extraordinary Abilities.

The damage of the lightning bolt should be electricity not lightning.

You should state which ability the DC saves are dependent on.

Debby

nonsi
2017-01-27, 10:51 AM
There are actually two official update books from WotC the first updated from 2e to 3e and then the second updated 3e to 3.5e. If you see Face/Reach rather than Space/Reach and attack line without damage and a damage line -- that's 3.0.


Thanks for the enlightenment.




Always glad to help. I realized I was going in a direction that you didn't intend so I've removed all the stat blocks I created (they were mostly to give you ideas and to showcase what wasn't working). I didn't want to step on your toes.


Actually, I was kind'a sorry to see your version omitted. It was a good reference for how to word things correctly - and it made me realize 6HD work a lot better.





Natural attacks do not get iterative attacks. The Full Attack line should read: Full Attack: 2 fists +10 melee (1d8+4).


Ok, I'll change that.





Alien Mind, Bio-Isolated, Fists and Immunity to Energy should be Extraordinary Abilities.


Will do.


And again, thanks :smallsmile:

Debihuman
2017-01-27, 11:14 AM
Added a clean stat block and edited and proofread. Hope it helps. Feel free to copy and paste. I'll remove it later.

Edit: All my stat blocks have been removed.

Debby

nonsi
2017-01-27, 12:44 PM
Added a clean stat block and edited and proofread. Hope it helps. Feel free to copy and paste. I'll remove it later.

Debby

Great Job :smallcool:

Only two questions regarding Energy Blast, out of curiosity more than differing:
1. Why 4 rounds recovery rather than 1d4 ?
2. Why is the save DC strength-based?

Debihuman
2017-01-28, 09:48 AM
Great Job :smallcool:

Whew, glad you liked it.


Only two questions regarding Energy Blast, out of curiosity more than differing:
1. Why 4 rounds recovery rather than 1d4 ?
2. Why is the save DC strength-based?

1. Fewer variables for the DM to keep track of during combat. But feel free to change it.
2. Because that was worked for the number you gave. It was either that or Dex and Dex doesn't seem to make sense. DCs are 10 + 1/2 HD of the Creature + ability modifier (plus if there are other bonuses). Actually I made a mistake and the DC should be 19. 10 +3 +4 +2 =19. If it were Charisma based it would be 16. Just don't make it Con based because the DC would be too high.

I'm gonna delete my stat block so just yours remains. No need for spoiler now.

Debby

nonsi
2017-01-28, 10:13 AM
Whew, glad you liked it.


Absolutely. I suck at formal wording.





1. Less work for the DM. Good rule is try to have as few variables during combat because the DM has enough to keep track of.


Yes, that's the up side. The down side is that if the players get to see the monster's description or ever encounter one after a previous 8-round encounter, then combat becomes totally predictable. My gut instinct tells me to return things to 1d4. I'm also considering replacing Ability Focus w/ Improved Trip/Sunder (probably the former, because they value treasure above all), just to make things more dynamic and make them more adaptable to the situation.





2. Because that was worked for the number you gave. It was either that or Dex and Dex doesn't seem to make sense. DCs are 10 + 1/2 HD of the Creature + ability modifier (plus if there are other bonuses).


Wait a minute . . .
10 + HD/2 + ability-bonus + Ability Focus = 17
==> 10 + 3 + ability-bonus + 2 = 17
==> ability-bonus = 2
==> Ability score is either Int or Wis. Wis seems perfectly fine to me.

EDIT: Cha-based would make it DC 15.
Btw, beyond balance considerations, I see no common sense in making energy damage Con-based. If I went for it, I wouldn't've given them Con 20.




I'm gonna delete my stat block so just yours remains. No need for spoiler now.


Don't mind if you keep it. Awesome PEACHers deserve the credit :smallcool: