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Jimbob
2007-07-20, 05:33 AM
Complete Divine or complete scroundrel which one should I get. Currently in my next campagin I will be playing in I was thinking of swashbuckler and heard there are many good feats and bits in scroundrel. But then i have heard many good things about divine, so im a little stuck at the moment.

squishycube
2007-07-20, 05:38 AM
You will probably find more stuff for your next character in the Complete Scoundrel, but Complete Divine is a nice book as well.
I'm not helping, am I?

Jimbob
2007-07-20, 05:45 AM
10 out of 10 to effort

Charity
2007-07-20, 05:57 AM
10 x 10
surely

Dhavaer
2007-07-20, 06:04 AM
Scoundrel is the better book, in my opinion, and it's going to be more useful to a swashbuckler.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-07-20, 06:13 AM
10 x 10
surely

10 x 10 x 10.

He is a cube, remember.

(Even though I only see 2D)

Damionte
2007-07-20, 06:53 AM
He put about as much effort into the answer as ya did the question. I mean thi one sounds liek a no brainer. Youre playing a swashbuckler next so you get scoundrel. Duh. :p

Swooper
2007-07-20, 07:01 AM
10 x 10 x 10.

He is a cube, remember.

(Even though I only see 2D)
Really? I'd think beholders would see around 12 dimensions. Think about it: People with two eyes see three. If you lose an eye, you lose depth perception, resulting in effectively two percieved dimensions. According to that, # of Percieved Dimensions = # of Eyes +1. Last time I checked, beholders have eleven eyes.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-07-20, 07:14 AM
Really? I'd think beholders would see around 12 dimensions. Think about it: People with two eyes see three. If you lose an eye, you lose depth perception, resulting in effectively two percieved dimensions. According to that, # of Percieved Dimensions = # of Eyes +1. Last time I checked, beholders have eleven eyes.

Ahh, but I was referring to squishycube's avatar. It is not drawn to look like 3D, but from the name we infer that it must be so anyway. :smallamused:

As to my vision?
I see many many more dimensions than the punier races can comprehend. :smalltongue:

EDIT:

Edit: String theory must be pretty easy to comprehend then, huh?

You would have to be a complete boson not to understand 26 dimensional string theory. :smalltongue:

How do you think Beholders ignore gravity. :smallwink:

Leon
2007-07-20, 07:36 AM
"Fair Fights are for Suckers"

Swooper
2007-07-20, 07:47 AM
Ahh, but I was referring to squishycube's avatar. It is not drawn to look like 3D, but from the name we infer that it must be so anyway. :smallamused:

As to my vision?
I see many many more dimensions than the punier races can comprehend. :smalltongue:

Edit: String theory must be pretty easy to comprehend then, huh?

AslanCross
2007-07-20, 07:49 AM
Definitely Scoundrel.

Person_Man
2007-07-20, 09:45 AM
I personally disliked both books.

Complete Divine has a metric ton of useful crunch that's pretty much standard in any optimization thread involving a divine class. But some of its clearly game breaking, and they really didn't put much effort into the fluff or giving DMs new ideas.

Complete Scoundrel is better in the fluff department, but not a whole lot. It's 95% useless in the crunch department, and a lot of it "looks" cool at first glance, but usually provides minor bonuses a limited number of times per day. There are one or two feats that are absolutely essential for certain classes (Daring Outlaw, Master Spellthief) but other then that, its useless. And again, as a DM I haven't used anything in the book for my campaigns.

So if its only a choice between Divine or Scoundrel, I would choose Divine. But in my opinion, PHBII, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Stormwrack, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, Complete Champion, or the Compendiums are much better ideas.

Human Paragon 3
2007-07-20, 10:42 AM
So if its only a choice between Divine or Scoundrel, I would choose Divine. But in my opinion, PHBII, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Stormwrack, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, Complete Champion, or the Compendiums are much better ideas.

Complete Adventurer is probably the best book I have seen. Complete Warrior, too, is an absolute must. Either of these are more useful than scoundrel or divine, but if you have both already, I'd go with scoundrel.

Morty
2007-07-20, 10:46 AM
So if its only a choice between Divine or Scoundrel, I would choose Divine. But in my opinion, PHBII, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Stormwrack, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, Complete Champion, or the Compendiums are much better ideas.

Just out of curiosity: why isn't Complete Arcane here?

bugsysservant
2007-07-20, 11:19 AM
You would have to be a complete boson not to understand 26 dimensional string theory. :smalltongue:

How do you think Beholders ignore gravity. :smallwink:

And you would have to be an even bigger boson to subscribe to it:smallbiggrin: . Probably one of the weak force carriers...

Anyway, complete divine is hands down a better book, but you aren't really going to get much out of it unless you plan on multiclassing. I enjoyed reading complete scoundrel, and I do think it somewhat valuable, but its really more for flavor, along the lines of "look at the kickass things my character can do!" If that matters more than solid rules and options, I would go with it. If you plan on playing a divine character in the near future, however, I would go with divine.

Person_Man
2007-07-20, 11:30 AM
Just out of curiosity: why isn't Complete Arcane here?

There was not much fluff that was particularly interesting to me, and as a DM there was nothing I incorporated into a campaign.

The Wu Jen, Warmage, and Warlock were garbage. I never see a Wu Jen build online (because no one is interested in it). The Warmage is a trap (essenatially an archer, and not a very good one). And the Warlock, which might be the only really interesting part of the book, was poorly executed and has been entirely overshadowed by the Dragonfire Adept.

Much of the Complete Arcane crunch is obsolete/underpowered compared to crunch from newer books. And what isn't underpowered is on the other end of the unusable spectrum because they're game breaking (Master Transmogrifist, Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil, poorly written Sublime Chord).

So, while it has a few useful bits here and there, its not my favorite book.

Overlard
2007-07-20, 11:49 AM
There was not much fluff that was particularly interesting to me, and as a DM there was nothing I incorporated into a campaign.

The Wu Jen, Warmage, and Warlock were garbage. I never see a Wu Jen build online (because no one is interested in it). The Warmage is a trap (essenatially an archer, and not a very good one). And the Warlock, which might be the only really interesting part of the book, was poorly executed and has been entirely overshadowed by the Dragonfire Adept.

Much of the Complete Arcane crunch is obsolete/underpowered compared to crunch from newer books. And what isn't underpowered is on the other end of the unusable spectrum because they're game breaking (Master Transmogrifist, Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil, poorly written Sublime Chord).

So, while it has a few useful bits here and there, its not my favorite book.
It wasn't that bad, and I see a lot more people using warlocks than dragonfire adepts.

Complete Divine was my least favourite one of the series (barring Psionic & Mage, which I had no use for). The Spirit Shaman was interesting, but all the PrCs were kinda uninspiring. A couple of good feats, but not much else.

I much preferred Scoundrel. Interesting PrCs, a pile of useful feats & skill tricks, and some great items. It's a much more fun read too.

2007-07-20, 11:53 AM
Personally I quite liked the Warlock and thought it was very good.

In a choice between Divine and Scoundrel, I'd go for Divine, but Scoundrel has a lot more to offer for a swashbuckler type.

Kurobara
2007-07-20, 03:40 PM
There was not much fluff that was particularly interesting to me, and as a DM there was nothing I incorporated into a campaign.

The Wu Jen, Warmage, and Warlock were garbage. I never see a Wu Jen build online (because no one is interested in it).

I dunno, I kinda want to play an Arcane Hierophant one of these days, and I prefer the flavor of Wu Jen for the arcane side to a wizard... the elemental theme fits a little more to me. (Edit to add: Plus the spell secrets are a nice if not spectacular feature, though more useful in a near-full Wu Jen build that'll get more of them later and thus be able to put them on higher-level spells.)

(The main thing keeping from me from actually playing it is that when I've barely played any casters, and all those were spontaneous, a dual preparatory caster with wild shape to keep track of as well is more than a little intimidating. Ended up going bard/crusader in the game I'm in right now instead.)