Way of the Endless Dance - Monk Subclass

[JBPuffin]

Later today I'm attending a dance, and while I have little talent, I enjoy it quite a bit :smallsmile:. As a tribute to those who know what they're doing, to the Battle Dancer trope (look it up yourself; I won't send anyone to that realm of my own volition), and to caprioara performers/fighters across the world, I present The Way of the Endless Dance, a 5e Monastic Tradition.

The Way of the Endless Dance sprang up naturally from the intersection of the martial and performing arts; skilled dancers and unarmed warriors began comparing notes and exploring their commonalities, which combined with the tendency for monasteries to provide rudimentary instrumental instruction led to the tradition's spread across the land. Monks of this tradition learn ways to weaponize their personal style, as well as connect themselves to the chaotic, ever-adjusting meter and underlying rhythms of combat. In this way, Eternal Dancers weave their way through combat sustaining minimal injury, ducking and stepping around blows as if they came in slow motion.


Note: The DC for saving throws is equal to 8+your proficiency modifier+the higher of your Dexterity or Wisdom modifiers.

3rd Level – Poetry in Motion: When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Performance skill and add double your proficiency modifier to Dexterity (Performance) checks.

3rd Level – Dangerous Dance: Starting at 3rd level, whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:

It must make a Dexterity saving throw or be moved 10 feet in a direction of your choice.
It must make a Strength saving throw or drop an object of your choice it is holding. The object lands at their feet.
It has disadvantage on its next attack against you before the end of your next turn.

6th Level – Guided by the Beat: Beginning at 6th level, you treat all nonmagical difficult terrain and liquid surfaces as harmless solid ground; environmental hazards associated with the terrain, such as the heat from molten rock, still affect you. Additionally, you gain a climb speed equal to your normal speed.

11th Level – Pirouette: At 11th level, you can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within five feet of you; you can move in between each attack, following the rules for breaking up your movement as laid out in Chapter 9, “Breaking Up Your Move,” and do not provoke opportunity attacks when doing so. You cannot attack a single creature more than once when using this ability.

17th Level – Step Aside: Beginning at 17th level, you move with such grace and precision that attackers cannot find an opening as long as you stand. No attack roll has advantage against you while you aren’t incapacitated.


Any balance concerns or other advice will be taken into consideration. PEACH if you wish, or simply steal it for personal use, my treat :smallbiggrin:.

[Arkhios]

Without reading further into it (before I opened the spoiler) I already had an association to Dervishes, which had me thinking you could maybe add Scimitar proficiency, have it count as monk weapon, call the tradition as Way of the Dervish, and maybe let a Dervish use a scimitar instead of unarmed strike with Flurry of Blows, after a certain level (after 6th level) when it wouldn't matter much whether you use unarmed strike or a weapon due to martial arts making your attacks magical.

But I digress.

At a first glance it seems fairly well balanced, though I may do a more thorough inspection later (when I'm not on smartphone)

I couldn't find anything remarkably out of place except that I can't really follow why would dancing give you climb speed. (If I may suggest, you could change that to what I rambled on about earlier: Flurry of Blows with a Scimitar, since the feature is at 6th level...)

[Sariel Vailo]

I wanted to see a monk style kind of like xianghua from soul Calibur. But this is fine to

[JBPuffin]

Without reading further into it (before I opened the spoiler) I already had an association to Dervishes, which had me thinking you could maybe add Scimitar proficiency, have it count as monk weapon, call the tradition as Way of the Dervish, and maybe let a Dervish use a scimitar instead of unarmed strike with Flurry of Blows, after a certain level (after 6th level) when it wouldn't matter much whether you use unarmed strike or a weapon due to martial arts making your attacks magical.

But I digress.

At a first glance it seems fairly well balanced, though I may do a more thorough inspection later (when I'm not on smartphone)

I couldn't find anything remarkably out of place except that I can't really follow why would dancing give you climb speed. (If I may suggest, you could change that to what I rambled on about earlier: Flurry of Blows with a Scimitar, since the feature is at 6th level...)

It kind of goes with the difficult terrain - the idea that you're so into the music, gravity can't even stop you from dancing. I see it as less of a climb speed and more of a vertical-walking speed :smallbiggrin:.

Edit: Just saw that monks get the "defy natural movement law" part at 9th level...so keeping the difficult terrain immunity, but what's a cool movement thing that isn't walking on water/walls?

The scimitar thing is interesting, I must say, although it might not be as potent as you'd think. Just having another weapon to pretend is your fist isn't too crazy...unless said weapon has reach or something. I don't know much about Luffy or One Piece in general, but a monk subclass based around whatever Devil Fruit he ate giving reach with unarmed attacks sounds utterly delicious. Like, I may or may not be salivating...

[Amnoriath]

It is somewhat overpowered. Your 3rd level is identical to the Open Hand except it also gains expertise. Your 6th level allows it to do for free when other monks have to pay with ki and isn't all that thematic. Your 11th level is the interpretation of Whirlwind Attack in which people wanted without any drawback on a Monk chassis(up to 2xDPR). It then gets the Rogue's 18th level ability one level earlier which is arguably already overpowered.

[JBPuffin]

It is somewhat overpowered. Your 3rd level is identical to the Open Hand except it also gains expertise. Your 6th level allows it to do for free when other monks have to pay with ki and isn't all that thematic. Your 11th level is the interpretation of Whirlwind Attack in which people wanted without any drawback on a Monk chassis(up to 2xDPR). It then gets the Rogue's 18th level ability one level earlier which is arguably already overpowered.

I need the expertise bit (which only works for Dex[Perform] checks; Expertise normally applies to stat swaps), so I think if I get rid of the Dex DC option that fixes that. 6th is normally free for months, albeit 3 levels early, which is why it needs a replacement...11th is Whirlwind as I believe it should be interpreted - spot on there. Not sure what drawback there is on a Ranger chassis...? And the last one, I'm flexible, so long as it fits thematically.

[retaliation08]

I would add in some language on whirlwind attack like " you may make a melee attack against all creatures within 5 feet of you when you initiate this feature" maybe. That is unless, you want people to abuse this ability and attack every creature within their movement range because "well he was within 5 feet of me when I attacked him".

Additionally, I like the idea of this feature being Ki based because of the precedent and theme. Alternatively, making it a long rest ability seems fine if this was to be the capstone ability.

I made a similar archetype for bard in my signature if you are interested.

[JBPuffin]

I would add in some language on whirlwind attack like " you may make a melee attack against all creatures within 5 feet of you when you initiate this feature" maybe. That is unless, you want people to abuse this ability and attack every creature within their movement range because "well he was within 5 feet of me when I attacked him".

Additionally, I like the idea of this feature being Ki based because of the precedent and theme. Alternatively, making it a long rest ability seems fine if this was to be the capstone ability.

I made a similar archetype for bard in my signature if you are interested.

Ki, I can see; I'll need to double check how ranger limits its usage. But the other bit actually defeats the entire purpose of the ability - what you just described is sort of what I want to see from people do, flying across the battlefield and hitting things. Since it's one attack - not attack action, but attack - per target, I'm okay with lowering them hit everyone in the battlefield once. That's actually the whole shtick.

[retaliation08]

I think it sounds fun as written, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a loophole to circumvent your intention :)

[Amnoriath]

I need the expertise bit (which only works for Dex[Perform] checks; Expertise normally applies to stat swaps), so I think if I get rid of the Dex DC option that fixes that. 6th is normally free for months, albeit 3 levels early, which is why it needs a replacement...11th is Whirlwind as I believe it should be interpreted - spot on there. Not sure what drawback there is on a Ranger chassis...? And the last one, I'm flexible, so long as it fits thematically.

1. But it is still a Open Hand+ basis I am not saying it breaks it and perhaps the Open Hand should have had a similar treatment but it is something to consider in looking at how it grows.
2. Except it also bypasses difficult terrain and gives a climb speed. In order to gain similar results other monks have to burn ki and bonus actions setting this up for its Flurry of Blows option to be used more.
3. Because in order to use it to great effect you are provoking opportunity attacks left and right yours comes in getting rid of that issue all together while delivering more DPR thanks to monk unarmored movement and a little more later thanks to Martial Arts.
Largely what you need is abilities with more along the lines of the interaction pillar, it is actually really heavy on fighting. In truth your last ability is about the same level broken as Quivering Palm so if you make a ribbon based Performance such as when you have successfully used your perform checks spectators have disadvantage on wisdom and intelligence based checks against you for the next minute with some other fluff such as remembering you better or something. Then at level 11 you could up your action economy a little by giving something like Action Surge.

[JBPuffin]

1. But it is still a Open Hand+ basis I am not saying it breaks it and perhaps the Open Hand should have had a similar treatment but it is something to consider in looking at how it grows.
2. Except it also bypasses difficult terrain and gives a climb speed. In order to gain similar results other monks have to burn ki and bonus actions setting this up for its Flurry of Blows option to be used more.
3. Because in order to use it to great effect you are provoking opportunity attacks left and right yours comes in getting rid of that issue all together while delivering more DPR thanks to monk unarmored movement and a little more later thanks to Martial Arts.
Largely what you need is abilities with more along the lines of the interaction pillar, it is actually really heavy on fighting. In truth your last ability is about the same level broken as Quivering Palm so if you make a ribbon based Performance such as when you have successfully used your perform checks spectators have disadvantage on wisdom and intelligence based checks against you for the next minute with some other fluff such as remembering you better or something. Then at level 11 you could up your action economy a little by giving something like Action Surge.

I'll be honest - I'd like to bring the monk up some in regards to its combat ability in general; this is as good a start as any. Open Hand+ is something to consider - I might take away the disadvantage portion, make it one of two options using the higher of your Dex or Wis as the DC determinant. The 6th level needs to be something different - that dance seems cool. As for the last one...can someone explain why removing advantage on every without imposing disadvantage is so strong? As the only thing that feature does, even getting to them earlier than the rogue doesn't seem ridiculous.

As to Whirlwind...I had to double-read that argument to process it, but I can understand how that may cause problems (I don't like it, and ranger can suck it, but I respect the clear explanation). Action Surge doesn't seem like a good alternative, as that's a part of optimization I'd like the fighter to keep squarely in its corner, but a fascinate at either 6th or 11th is reasonable. Besides Action Surge, what can I put at 11th if Distracting Dance goes to 6th? Could I make it so that you can now apply both riders from Dangerous Dance (push and disarm), and have that be the whole feature, or would it need something extra?

Edit: Looking at Way of Shadow...how's a 60-foot pseudo-conditional teleport less good than difficult terrain immunity and a climb speed? Ignoring the redundant part, Monks actually can't ignore difficult terrain (mitigate it, I guess, with the extra speed), and the idea that you're so in-tune that you can do what that guy on the Apple Airpods commercial did (ie, defy gravity) is a major motivator for my designing this archetype.

The way I see it, removing Whirlwind makes the super-movement much less of a problem, and if the dance-monk isn't the fastest person in the party, there's something wrong.

[Amnoriath]

As for the last one...can someone explain why removing advantage on every without imposing disadvantage is so strong? As the only thing that feature does, even getting to them earlier than the rogue doesn't seem ridiculous.

As to Whirlwind...I had to double-read that argument to process it, but I can understand how that may cause problems (I don't like it, and ranger can suck it, but I respect the clear explanation). Action Surge doesn't seem like a good alternative, as that's a part of optimization I'd like the fighter to keep squarely in its corner, but a fascinate at either 6th or 11th is reasonable. Besides Action Surge, what can I put at 11th if Distracting Dance goes to 6th? Could I make it so that you can now apply both riders from Dangerous Dance (push and disarm), and have that be the whole feature, or would it need something extra?

Edit: Looking at Way of Shadow...how's a 60-foot pseudo-conditional teleport less good than difficult terrain immunity and a climb speed? Ignoring the redundant part, Monks actually can't ignore difficult terrain (mitigate it, I guess, with the extra speed), and the idea that you're so in-tune that you can do what that guy on the Apple Airpods commercial did (ie, defy gravity) is a major motivator for my designing this archetype.

The way I see it, removing Whirlwind makes the super-movement much less of a problem, and if the dance-monk isn't the fastest person in the party, there's something wrong.
1. Because any time you can impose disadvantage it is disadvantage. It means there is no tactic against you to make you easier to hit short of taking you all out together. This the Monk exploits more than the Rogue through Patient Defense, Unarmoured Movement(AC), and Diamond Soul(much less likely to incapacitated).
2. Except you need to think of features that don't synergize so well it completes itself in a battle strategy.
3. Because it is restricted to shadowy areas, it isn't that it is so good it unbalances everything it is good because it makes the monk that much better. A monk is already going to be the fastest guy in the party at base what you are saying is that you want it to be the fastest monk.

[JBPuffin]

1. Because any time you can impose disadvantage it is disadvantage. It means there is no tactic against you to make you easier to hit short of taking you all out together. This the Monk exploits more than the Rogue through Patient Defense, Unarmoured Movement(AC), and Diamond Soul(much less likely to incapacitated).
2. Except you need to think of features that don't synergize so well it completes itself in a battle strategy.
3. Because it is restricted to shadowy areas, it isn't that it is so good it unbalances everything it is good because it makes the monk that much better. A monk is already going to be the fastest guy in the party at base what you are saying is that you want it to be the fastest monk.

1. So they become unhitable, eh?...I'm guessing they're still not versatile enough to compete with a Cleric, but that's kind of fun. What would be more fair there?
2. I do? I mean, Wizards has and continues to do so...not the best benchmark for balance, I guess :smallsigh:. So rather than that, what do you suggest I do with this? Give me some concrete feature text, and I'll happily credit you with an asterisk and hyperlinked quote in the OP.
3. Yes; we're on the same page :smallbiggrin:. Joking aside, as with 2, if you have wording ideas or replacements ready to go, I'll make sure people know they aren't my original thought and credit you in the OP.

[Deleted]

Note: The DC for saving throws is equal to 8+your proficiency modifier+the higher of your Dexterity or Wisdom modifiers.

3rd Level – Poetry in Motion: When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Performance skill and add double your proficiency modifier to Dexterity (Performance) checks.

3rd Level – Dangerous Dance: Starting at 3rd level, whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:

It must make a Dexterity saving throw or be moved 10 feet in a direction of your choice.
It must make a Strength saving throw or drop an object of your choice it is holding. The object lands at their feet.
It has disadvantage on its next attack against you before the end of your next turn.

6th Level – Guided by the Beat: Beginning at 6th level, you treat all nonmagical difficult terrain and liquid surfaces as harmless solid ground; environmental hazards associated with the terrain, such as the heat from molten rock, still affect you. Additionally, you gain a climb speed equal to your normal speed.

11th Level – Pirouette: At 11th level, you can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within five feet of you; you can move in between each attack, following the rules for breaking up your movement as laid out in Chapter 9, “Breaking Up Your Move,” and do not provoke opportunity attacks when doing so. You cannot attack a single creature more than once when using this ability.

17th Level – Step Aside: Beginning at 17th level, you move with such grace and precision that attackers cannot find an opening as long as you stand. No attack roll has advantage against you while you aren’t incapacitated.


3rd Level
Drop the expertise. It just seems out of place.

If you are going to be a monk about dancing, you should focus on grapples and moving the creature while grappled. You could tie this into using Step of The Wind.

Dangerous Dance
Starting at third level you combine your martial arts and dancing ability. You may use a bonus action to grapple a creature, you may replace the Athletics (strength) with a an Acrobatics (dexterity) check anytime you must roll a grapple contest.

If you use Flurry of Blows you may replace one of your Flurry of Blows with a grapple. When you have a creature grappled you gain the following abilities.

Cha Cha Cha!: Whenever you use Patient Defense to dodge, the creature you have grappled has disadvantage on their next attack.
Dance with the Wind: Whenever you use Step of the Wind to dash, you can move at your full movement speed during the dash.

[dungeon Plotter]

ok, so i poured this into a pdf at the homebrewery (merely for own convenience) and shall use this to unleash an android dancer upon my players in the sci-fi campaign i'm running.

it's gonna be awesome.