The Wilder - A Psionic Sorcerer Origin

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Psionic Sorcerous Origin
Your innate magic comes from a mysterious source. Perhaps you were subjected to strange energies in the womb? Perhaps a genetic defect in your brain granted you mutant powers? Or perhaps you were merely the one in a million born with the innate discipline and resolve to hone your mind into a weapon itself, tapping into the magical energies of the world through sheer force of will alone. Whatever the source of your Psionic abilities, it has marked you. For good or ill, you are a Wilder.

Psionic Proficiency
Your mind works in eldritch ways, as though you possessed a third eye...and it has gazed upon the Strange. Starting at 1st level when you select this Origin, you gain Advantage on Charisma checks against Aberrations, and you gain resistance to Psychic Damage. In addition, you can add your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class against a single attack, or you can use Charisma in place of another Ability Score when making a Save using that score. You regain the use of this ability only after finishing a short rest.

Bonus Spells
You gain the following bonus spells as given below. These spells do not count against the number of spells you may know.

1st: Dissonant Whispers, Heroism
3rd: Enthrall, Suggestion
5th: Hypnotic Pattern, Wind Wall
7th: Compulsion, Phantasmal Killer
9th: Dream, Geas

Warped Mind
Starting at 6th-level, your psionic powers begin to manifest subconsciously. Whenever you spend Sorcery Points in order to apply Metamagic to a spell, creatures you choose within 15ft of you take psychic damage equal to your Sorcerer level.

Wandering Thoughts
Also at 6th-level, you may spend 1 Sorcery Point to cast Detect Thoughts as a 2nd-level spell. When cast in this way you are only able to perceive surface thoughts.

Elusive Mind
Your mind now creates a constant psychic field around you, an invisible line of defense. At 14th level, you gain immunity to charm and fear effects, and you gain Resistance to Force Damage. Additionally, you gain a flight speed of 30 feet, and you can hover.

Overwhelming Power
At 18th-level, your Psionic abilities allow you to strike almost with impunity. Whenever you cast a spell which deals damage, you may spend 3 Sorcery Points in order to change the damage type to Force or Psychic Damage, your choice when you spend the points.



2/1/17

Changed Aberration and Far Realm language because no one liked it, WotC.
Force and Psychic resistance moved to 1st level
Warped Mind language, range altered
Elusive Mind re-written entirely
Overwhelming Power point cost changed

2/6/17

Split Force and Psycic resist
further rewrite of elusive mind
rewrite of Overwhelming power
added defensive ability at 1st and flight ability at 14th


Picture originally by BenWootten@deviantart*
*Picture will return once class is finished

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Almost 60 views and no replies? Hm. :smallfrown:

Made a few corrections in the post and the picture. PEACH is more than welcome.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Almost 100 posts and no replies. Guess that's feedback of a sort.

[Nifft]

Seems flavorful & well-balanced.

I'm guessing that you didn't get much feedback because Wilders weren't very popular in 3.5e.

EDIT: Oh, also a lot of people feel that the "connection" between the Far Realms and Psionics is stupid, and was a 5e-specific mistake which they choose to ignore. You've embraced that "connection", which is a turn off for some. (Including me.)

[retaliation08]

So after looking this over and comparing to the Storm Sorcerer, I have a few thoughts.

1. Storm Sorcerer is very strong

2. The bonus to Charisma checks vs. Aberrations I would consider to be purely fluff in terms of balancing the class. It has a fairly negligible effect on the power level of this archetype.

3. I am a little confused by the choice of some of you spells in regards to the flavor of the class. (heroism, enthrall, windwall, hypnotic pattern maybe). More importantly though, nearly all of the spells on that list are concentration spells, which severely limits the spell options of the Wilder while he is already concentrating on a spell. Unless I missed something, the only non-concentration spell on the list with a casting time of 1 action is Dissonant Whispers.

4. Dragon, Shadow and Storm Sorcerers all start out with a defensive boon at 1st level. (Dragon is Hp and AC, Storm is free movement, Shadow is save or drop instead of just dropping to 0). I would consider adding a defensive boon here. I know at 6th level you grant resistance to two damage types, but Storm and Dragon get that at 6th level in addition to their first level benefit.

5. Warped mind. It mimics the Storm Sorc's level 6th ability, which is very strong in comparison to the Dragon Sorc's ability. But, since you are building closely off of the Storm Sorc, I think it is appropriate to leave in. The I like the flavor of using the sorcery point to trigger the ability as it is closer to the Wilder's surge mechanic from 3.5 that way I think. My only suggestion is to change the wording a bit like this: "In addition to the spell's affects, CREATURES OF YOUR CHOICE within 10 feet of you...." Many times who is and isn't an enemy can be debatable.

6. Wandering Thoughts. Again, this is another ability gained at 1st level by another Origin which here is delayed until 6th level. I think it is fine to leave as a 6th level ability tho, provided you implement a defensive class feature at 1st level.

7. Elusive Mind. I like this personally but I feel like it may be too strong. The Paladin's aura of courage only grants fear immunity while he is conscious. I would base this ability off of the Paladin ability. You could also consider proficiency with wisdom saves here. So something like:

"At 14 level, you project a psionic barrier around your mind and the minds of your allies. You gain proficiency will Wisdom saving throws. In addition, you and friendly creatures within 10 feat of you can't be frightened while you are conscious."

8. Overwhelming power reminds me of Emporer Palpatine. UNLIMITED POWWWEEERRRRR!! Anyway, I find this capstone to be underwhelming. I am not sure about the sorcery cost for converting to force damage. I am not aware of any precedent that allows such a thing. The only thing I have to go off of is the Elemental Adept feat. Personally, I think the ability to change to force damage is not that cool of a capstone. Like, if I was playing this class, I would not be thrilled to reach level 18 really. Not like If I was a Dragon, Storm, of Shadow Sorcerer. Also, none of the other capstones have an "In addition, one of your previous class features gets a little better" tag on to them. I think you could do much better with a capstone for this Origin, as it is a really cool idea with lots of potential.

9. My only other thought is that all of the other Origins (Wild magic excluded, as they have been for this whole post) have some means of movement enhancement. Storms and Dragons get flight, and Shadows get shadow form. I don't think it is a huge deal that Wilder's don't get that here, but even something simple like adding levitate or to the spell list would help them in this area although I do not think it is necessary, merely an observation.

Can't think of a 10th point so we are stopping at 9. Hope my critique helps. I really like the idea and I think it has a lot of potential to be really really fun to play :)

[Amnoriath]

Fantastic flavor and good choices to bring it forward but it feels a little needlessly complex.
1. First level is perfect as is.
2. Sixth level, is the latter effect in Warped Mind suppose to be Wild Surge? If so casting a 2nd level spell for 1 sorcery point with no concentration even if its just surface thoughts is pretty good right there with psychic resistance.
3. Immunity to charm and frightened is fantastic as is the other is just out of place.
4. 5 sorcery points to change the damage to force damage is incredibly expensive while the other is a nice rider it is confusing because you haven't detailed what a Wild Surge is here.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Changes to the class have been made roughly based on feedback. Thanks so far to anyone who posted! Let's dig into some replies:


EDIT: Oh, also a lot of people feel that the "connection" between the Far Realms and Psionics is stupid, and was a 5e-specific mistake which they choose to ignore. You've embraced that "connection", which is a turn off for some. (Including me.)

I kept the Far Realms stuff because official material seems likely to keep it up, so why rock the boat? Either way, language has been altered to avoid that connection.


3. I am a little confused by the choice of some of you spells in regards to the flavor of the class.

The spells were chosen based on their schools. Divination, Illusion, Enchantment, and Evocation are all schools that Psionics focused on back in the 3.5 days, so the pool of possible spells was narrowed down to those. I agree the lack of concentration-free spells is bad. Can you offer any alternatives I might've missed?


4. Dragon, Shadow and Storm Sorcerers all start out with a defensive boon at 1st level. (Dragon is Hp and AC, Storm is free movement, Shadow is save or drop instead of just dropping to 0). I would consider adding a defensive boon here. I know at 6th level you grant resistance to two damage types, but Storm and Dragon get that at 6th level in addition to their first level benefit.


At the moment I have moved the Resistances to 1st level. I was considering 1/rest Charisma-to-AC as a reaction, but not sure where to put it, if at all.


5. ...My only suggestion is to change the wording a bit like this...

Noted and altered. Thank you for the suggestion!


7. Elusive Mind.

I opted to grant Wisdom Save proficiency, and to also make Warped Mind's psychic damage trigger more often.


8. Overwhelming power reminds me of Emporer Palpatine. UNLIMITED POWWWEEERRRRR!! Anyway, I find this capstone to be underwhelming. I am not sure about the sorcery cost for converting to force damage. I am not aware of any precedent that allows such a thing. The only thing I have to go off of is the Elemental Adept feat. Personally, I think the ability to change to force damage is not that cool of a capstone. Like, if I was playing this class, I would not be thrilled to reach level 18 really. Not like If I was a Dragon, Storm, of Shadow Sorcerer. Also, none of the other capstones have an "In addition, one of your previous class features gets a little better" tag on to them. I think you could do much better with a capstone for this Origin, as it is a really cool idea with lots of potential.

Overwhelming Power's cost has now been reduced to 3 points. I liked it as a capstone originally due to the ability of a Sorcerer with it to drop Force-Meteor Swarm on someone who'd normally be immune or resistant to it. Is there some other way to improve this, or are you of the opinion OP is dead in the water?


9. My only other thought is that all of the other Origins (Wild magic excluded, as they have been for this whole post) have some means of movement enhancement. Storms and Dragons get flight, and Shadows get shadow form. I don't think it is a huge deal that Wilder's don't get that here, but even something simple like adding levitate or to the spell list would help them in this area although I do not think it is necessary, merely an observation.

That also bothered me a bit, but since Levitate is already a Sorcerer spell, I was defeated in this regards. I am very uncertain of how to grant them an extra movement ability. Suddenly gaining Mind-Flayer wings would be...awkward.


Sixth level, is the latter effect in Warped Mind suppose to be Wild Surge? If so casting a 2nd level spell for 1 sorcery point with no concentration even if its just surface thoughts is pretty good right there with psychic resistance.

Warped Mind is indeed meant to be Wild Sur-


the other is a nice rider it is confusing because you haven't detailed what a Wild Surge is here.

:smalleek:

Damn typos. Fixed that, sorry!

Also great big thank you to everyone who's posted so far! Hope to hear back on current changes soon!

[retaliation08]

The spells were chosen based on their schools. Divination, Illusion, Enchantment, and Evocation are all schools that Psionics focused on back in the 3.5 days, so the pool of possible spells was narrowed down to those. I agree the lack of concentration-free spells is bad. Can you offer any alternatives I might've missed?


I don't have time to give suggestions for spells at the moment as it will surely be a time consuming process.



At the moment I have moved the Resistances to 1st level. I was considering 1/rest Charisma-to-AC as a reaction, but not sure where to put it, if at all.


I think the resistances were better at 6th level due to precedence, but I am currently blanking on ideas for a 1st level defensive boon. Maybe some sort of short range teleport of 10ft? Charisma to AC would be roughly the same as Draconic Resilience at first level assuming point buy for stats, it would simply scale with level to a max of +5. Is an extra +2 to AC stronger than 1 hp per level? Probably.



I opted to grant Wisdom Save proficiency, and to also make Warped Mind's psychic damage trigger more often.

I have never played a Sorcerer and I am having a hard time coming up with an instance in which you would be using sorcery points other than to cast metamagic. At first glance that rider seems really weak, but it may just be due to my ignorance.


Overwhelming Power's cost has now been reduced to 3 points. I liked it as a capstone originally due to the ability of a Sorcerer with it to drop Force-Meteor Swarm on someone who'd normally be immune or resistant to it. Is there some other way to improve this, or are you of the opinion OP is dead in the water?


While it is a useful ability (more now with the reduced cost) it just doesn't excite me as a player as I feel a capstone should. That may just be me personally. If it excites you then roll with it :)


That also bothered me a bit, but since Levitate is already a Sorcerer spell, I was defeated in this regards. I am very uncertain of how to grant them an extra movement ability. Suddenly gaining Mind-Flayer wings would be...awkward.

Other than short range levitate regulated by usage per rest I really have no ideas. Like I said before, It is not necessary to have, but it is handy for versatility. A player can always cast fly or levitate or whatever to solve that issue. it is more important to stay balanced and thematically focused IMO.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

All right! More changes! Check the log in the OP!

In short, I moved the resistances again and added more stuff to certain abilities. This archetype now features a 1/long rest Charisma bump to a Save or your AC, as well as a flight speed by 14th level, and increased damage to the Wild Su- I mean...Warped Mind. Yeah.

Is this archetype moving in the right direction?


I have never played a Sorcerer and I am having a hard time coming up with an instance in which you would be using sorcery points other than to cast metamagic. At first glance that rider seems really weak, but it may just be due to my ignorance.

The Sorcerer can spend Metamagic to add more spell slots to his arsenal. As for the rider, it's Psychic damage. NO ONE stops that. It's free damage!


While it is a useful ability (more now with the reduced cost) it just doesn't excite me as a player as I feel a capstone should. That may just be me personally. If it excites you then roll with it :)

I'm going to roll with it at the moment unless I or someone else comes up with something better to replace it.

[retaliation08]

Yeah I think its looking pretty good. Its hard to work with sorcerer because the archetypes have varying levels of power. It seems like you are right in there, not OP or UP. That is a good place to be.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Yeah I think its looking pretty good. Its hard to work with sorcerer because the archetypes have varying levels of power. It seems like you are right in there, not OP or UP. That is a good place to be.

Emphasis mine. A thousand times this! At least I had Storm and a few others this time to compare. Back when it was just Dragon or Wild Magic, it was just about impossible to do anything with Sorcerer.