PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next 5e Factotum Homebrew v3.0 (PEACH)



retaliation08
2017-02-02, 05:27 PM
Hello! I am please to offer for your evaluation the Factotum(3.5 Dungeonscape), my first base class revision! It is still a bit of a work in progress as I am unsure of the balance of some of the features that require play testing. I hope that You will like it and please offer me all the honest feedback that you can!






Level

Proficiency
Bonus
Class Features
Spells
Prepared
Spell
Level
Inspiration
Points


1st
+2
Jack of All Trades, Expertise
-
-
-


2nd
+2
Burlesque Magic, Inspiration
1
1st
2


3rd
+2
Opportunistic Piety, Factotum Archetype
1
1st
3


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
2
1st
4


5th
+3
Brains Over Brawn
2
2nd
5


6th
+3
Expertise
2
2nd
6


7th
+3
Factotum Archetype Feature
3
2nd
7


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
3
3rd
8


9th
+4
Cunning Surge
4
3rd
9


10th
+4
-
4
4th
10


11th
+4
Factotum Archetype Feature
4
4th
11


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
5
4th
12


13th
+5
-
5
5th
13


14th
+5
Factotum Archetype Feature
6
5th
14


15th
+5
-
6
6th
15


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
6
6th
16


17th
+6
Factotum Archetype Feature
7
6th
17


18th
+6
-
7
7th
18


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
7
7th
19


20th
+6
Renaissance
8
7th
20






Hit Dice: 1d8 per Factotum level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Factotum level after 1st
Armour: Light Armour, Shields

Weapons: Simple Weapons, Martial Weapons
Tools: Thieves' Tools
Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence
Skills: Choose any three skills
Multiclassing: Requires 13+ Intelligence score
Multiclassing Proficiencies Gained: Light armour, shields, simple weapons, martial weapons, one skill of your choice, and thieves' tools.

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:


(a) a longsword or (b) a rapier
(a) a light crossbow and case of 20 bolts or (b) a shortsword
(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
(a) Leather armour, and a dagger




Expertise
At 1st level, choose two of your skill proficiencies, or one of your skill proficiencies and your proficicency with thieves' tools. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.
At 6th level, you can choose two more of your proficiences (in skills or with thieves' tools) to gain this benefit.



Jack of All Trades
Starting at 1st level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus.

Burlesque Magic

Beginning at 2nd level, you can cast arcane spells off of the Sorcerer spell list, but your magical abilities are at best limited. You can master potent spells, but your lack of formal training makes it difficult for you to use them more than once each day. Furthermore, your understanding of magic is broad rather than deep.

After you finish a long rest, you can prepare a number of spells from the Sorcerer spell list based on your Factotum level. You can choose one spell at 2nd level, and you gain additional spells as shown on the Factotum table. The maximum level of spell you can use, according to your class level, is also shown on the table. You can select any Sorcerer spell up to that level, but you can prepare only one spell of your maximum level. Once you have used a spell, you cannot use it again until you finish a long rest, at which point you can prepare new spells. You cannot prepare the same spell multiple times to use it more than once per long rest.

Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your spells, so you use your Intelligence whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a Sorcerer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your spells.

Nebulous Casting

You have a vague understanding of magic. You know that with a few weird hand gestures and an array of grunts and bizarre words, you can conjure up something that looks like a spell, but from time to time your crude mutterings and gestures create an unintended magical effect.

Starting at 2nd level, your spell casting can release an untamed burst of magic. Immediately after you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, the DM can have you roll a d20. If you roll a 1, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table on pg. 104 of the PHB to create a random magical effect.



Inspiration

Beginning at 2nd level you are able to tap into your diverse knowledge and experience to boost your abilities in any situation. You gain a number of Inspiration Points determined by your Factotum level.
You can spend these points to fuel your many Cunning features. You start out knowing two such abilities, Cunning Insight and Cunning Alacrity. You learn more cunning features as you gain levels in this class.
When you spend an Inspiration point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which you recover all expended Inspiration Points.

Cunning Insight

You may spend 1 Inspiration Point to add your intelligence bonus to the one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw you make. If you are making an Intelligence check, you may still use this feature to apply your Intelligence bonus one additional time. You may only use this feature once per roll.

Cunning Alacrity

You may spend 1 Inspiration Point to take the Dash or Disengage action as a bonus action on your turn.



Jack of All Trades
Starting at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus.

Opportunistic Piety

At 3rd level you use your knowledge of religion to plead for healing from the appropriate deity.. As an action you can spend 1 Inspiration point to heal a creature that you touch a number of hit points equal to your Factotum level + Intelligence modifier.


Brains Over Brawn

At 5th level you have learned to work smarter, not harder. You can use your Intelligence modifier for any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution ability check instead of the primary stat modifier for the check.



Cunning Surge

Starting at 10th level, you learn to push yourself when needed. By spending 5 Inspiration Points, you can take an extra action during your turn in addition to your normal action and possible bonus action. You may only use this feature once per round. If you activate Cunning Surge on a turn in which you have cast a spell, you can't cast another spell on your turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.



Renaissance

Starting at 20th level you can delve deep into your well of knowledge and experience to restore your inspiration. You can use an action to recover up to 10 expended Inspiration Points. You can not do this again until you finish a long rest.



Arcane Dilettante


You dedicate your efforts to increasing your arcane abilities. Dungeon delvers, treasure hunters, and scientists follow the path of the Arcane Dilettante. Your spells become less of a fumbling attempt at magic and, through a more concentrated study, begin to more closely resemble those of a true Arcanist. You may not be a devoted student of the arcane, but your practiced skills can trick all but the most powerful spellcasters into believing otherwise.

Bonus Proficiencies
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with Arcana.

Inspired Casting
At 3rd level, you can use your Inspiration Points to cast your Burlesque Magic spells. To cast a spell using Inspiration points, you must expend a number of Inspiration points equal to the level of the spell that you wish to cast. You can cast your spells at will as long has you have the required number of Inspiration points. You can prepare a number of spells equal to your Intelligence modifier in addition to those that you prepare based on your Factotum level. You can only prepare one spell of your maximum spell level as shown on the Factotum table.


Meta-Magic
At 7th level, your experimental approach to magic enables you to craft your spells in creative ways. You gain two of the following meta-magic options of your choice. You gain another one at 11th level.

Careful Spell

When you Cast a Spell that forces other creatures to make a saving throw, you can protect some of those creatures from the spellís full force. To do so, you spend 1 sorcery point and choose a number of those creatures up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). A chosen creature automatically succeeds on its saving throw against the spell.

Distant Spell

When you Cast a Spell that has a range of 5 feet or greater, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double the range of the spell.
When you Cast a Spell that has a range of touch, you can spend 1 sorcery point to make the range of the spell 30 feet.

Empowered Spell

When you roll damage for a spell, you can spend 1 inspiration point to reroll a number of the damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one). You must use the new rolls.
You can use Empowered Spell even if you have already used a different Metamagic option during the casting of the spell.

Extended Spell

When you Cast a Spell that has a Duration of 1 minute or longer, you can spend 1 inspiration point to double its Duration, to a maximum Duration of 24 hours.

Heightened Spell

When you Cast a Spell that forces a creature to make a saving throw to resist its effects, you can spend 3 inspiration points to give one target of the spell disadvantage on its first saving throw made against the spell.

Quickened Spell

When you Cast a Spell that has a Casting Time of 1 action, you can spend 2 inspiration points to change the Casting Time to 1 Bonus Action for this casting.

Subtle Spell

When you Cast a Spell, you can spend 1 inspiration point to cast it without any somatic or verbal Components.

Twinned Spell

When you Cast a Spell that Targets only one creature and doesnít have a range of self, you can spend a number of inspiration points equal to the spellís level to target a second creature in range with the same spell.
To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spellís current level. For example, Magic Missile and Scorching Ray arenít eligible, but Ray of Frost is.

Articulate Casting
At 14th level, you are able to cast your spells in a more comprehensible manner. Whenever you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table, you can roll twice and use either number.

Spell Thief
At 17th level, you gain the ability to magically steal the knowledge of how to cast a spell from another spellcaster.
Immediately after a creature cassts a spell that targets you or includes you in its area of effect, you cans use your reaction to force the creature to make a saving throw with its spellcasting ability modifier. The DC equals your spell save DC. On a failed save, you negate the spell's effect against you, and you steal the knowledge of the spell if it is at least 1st level and of a level you can cast. For the next 8 hours, you know the spell and can cast it using your Inspiration points. The creature can't cast that spell until 8 hours have passed.
Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.
You can't apply any of your meta-magic effects to this spell.



Valiant Savant

Bonus Proficiencies
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level you gain proficiency with medium armour.

Fighting Style
When you choose this Archetype at 3rd level, you adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style more than once, even if you later get to choose again.

Archery
You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.

Defense
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.

Dueling
When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, ou can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.

Protection
When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. you must be wielding a shield.

Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Cunning Strike
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you can pinpoint the weak spot in any defense. When you hit with a weapon attack, you can immediately spend 1 Inspiration point to add your Intelligence modifier to the damage roll. You may only do this once per weapon attack.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 7th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. You gain a third attack at 14th level.

Cunning Breach
Starting at level 11, whenever you activate your Cunning Attack, you can ignore a single creature's resistance for this attack. Treat the creature as if it has no damage resistance, and treat any of the creature's damage immunities as if they were resistances instead.

Knowledge Devotion
At level 17, You have devoted yourself to the knowledge of creatures and their combat techniques, enabling you to exploit every weakness. When making a weapon attack against a creature, you may expend 3 Inspiration Points to gain advantage on your attack roll. If you hit with your attack, the creature must make a constitution saving throw against your save DC. If the creature fails its save, you may use the maximum damage value from your damage dice for this attack.



Pious Opportunist

Factotums are legendary for the number of holy symbols, lucky trinkets, and blessed items they keep handy. As the saying goes, there are no atheists in the dungeon.

Bonus Proficiencies
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level you gain proficiency with Religion.

Divine Inspiration
At 3rd level, you can spend 10 minutes in prayer after finishing a long rest in order to prepare your spells from the Cleric spell list. Cleric spells prepared in this way are considered Devotion spells for you. You can use your Inspiration Points to cast your Devotion spells. To cast a spell using Inspiration points, you must expend a number of Inspiration points equal to the level of the spell that you wish to cast. You can cast your Devotion spells at will as long has you have the required number of Inspiration points.
You can prepare a number of Devotion spells equal to your Intelligence modifier in addition to those that you prepare based on your Factotum level.
For example, a level 7 Pious Opportunist with 18 Intelligence can prepare a total of seven spells, four of which must be from the Cleric Spell list while the other three can be from the Cleric or Sorcerer spell lists.
You can only prepare one spell of your maximum spell level as shown on the Factotum table.
Your Nebulous Casting feature does not apply to your Devotion spells.

Auspicious Devotion
At 7th level After you finish a long rest, choose one Cleric domain. You gain your chosen domain's Channel Divinity options until you choose another Cleric domain using this class feature. Once you use a Channel Divinity option, you can not do so again until you finish a short rest. At 14th level, you can use your Channel Divinity twice between rests. When you finish a short or long rest, you regain your expended uses.

Advanced Opportunistic Piety
At 11th level, your knowledge of healing magic empowers your healing abilities. Whenever you activate your Opportunistic Piety class feature you can heal your target a number of hit points equal to twice your Factotum level + Intelligence modifier. For example, A level 13 Factotum with an Intelligence score of 18 can heal 30 hit points with one use of his Opportunistic Piety class feature.

Clever Supplication
Beginning at 17th level, you can call on a deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.
Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your Factotum level, a deity intervenes. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate.
If a deity intervenes, you can't use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest.

retaliation08
2017-02-03, 12:06 PM
I did make a couple changes after more brainstorming. The changes can via the link in my signature. The changes include altering the Inspiration point progression to mimic that the the Monk's Ki point progression. changing from all skills to only 3 skills and adding jack of all trades and expertise at first level, delaying Inspiration Points until 2nd level.

I think the changes are more balanced and follow some precedent. I think 1st level was too strong in the previous version, while it also trivialized skills gained via race and background choices.

I am still very interested in having feedback :)

JBPuffin
2017-02-03, 06:04 PM
The major problem with this class is the lack of archetypes; there's no class in 5e that doesn't branch out. If you can make three archetypes out of the concept of the factotum, then we can look at this with more precision.

retaliation08
2017-02-03, 06:31 PM
I agree with you about the archetypes. I struggled to come up with ideas for an archetype as the Factotum's nature is not to specialize, but rather to be very diverse. I considered making the Arcane Dilettante and an Opportunistic Devotee (or Pious Opportunist?) archetypes with spell progressions like that of the arcane Trickster or Eldricht Knight, but I feel like it defeats the spirit of the class a little bit. I don't know, what do you think about that idea?

Wartex1
2017-02-03, 08:02 PM
Maybe keep the same base stuff, but each archetype allows for more specialization in one of the four "classic archetypes" (Mage, Fighter, Rogue, and Healer).

So, the Mage specialization gives you more spells and supporting features for Arcane Dilettante, while the Fighter specialization grants an extra attack or defensive bonuses, the Rogue specialization grants stronger single-hit damage (like a pseudo-sneak attack), and the Healer specialization has either better healing or status healing.

EDIT: And maybe have a Generalist archetype to allow you to preserve the true Jack-of-All-Trades feeling.

retaliation08
2017-02-03, 08:08 PM
Maybe keep the same base stuff, but each archetype allows for more specialization in one of the four "classic archetypes" (Mage, Fighter, Rogue, and Healer).

So, the Mage specialization gives you more spells and supporting features for Arcane Dilettante, while the Fighter specialization grants an extra attack or defensive bonuses, the Rogue specialization grants stronger single-hit damage (like a pseudo-sneak attack), and the Healer specialization has either better healing or status healing.

EDIT: And maybe have a Generalist archetype to allow you to preserve the true Jack-of-All-Trades feeling.

Ok I will work on that. It will be tricky keeping arcane dilettante and also adding normal casting, but it can be done. Balancing it will be the issue. Thanks for the advice!

P.S. does the base stuff seem fairly balanced versus the base offerings of other classes?

Wartex1
2017-02-03, 09:16 PM
If anything, it seems weak in most areas besides skillmonkeying and action economy. Its got poor spellcasting, no extra attacks, and few ways to add damage, but it does get access to pretty decent healing.

Granted, since its resource runs off of short rests, who knows. It could be really strong depending on how you spend your points, but since all of its abilities run off of those points, it doesn't seem to be too strong. Maybe if it got more Inspiration points (say, add your INT modifier to it), it'd be better. As is, its weakest point seems to be damage output (though it is accurate with its attacks), and its skills are crazy (almost all key off the same stat, plus double proficiency bonus in every single skill, granted, the last bit doesn't come out until very late, but still).

Its very strong outside of combat, but in-combat, it seems that it functions best as a support, which is alright, but I can't gauge whether its really that effective at that role.

retaliation08
2017-02-03, 09:21 PM
If anything, it seems weak in most areas besides skillmonkeying and action economy. Its got poor spellcasting, no extra attacks, and few ways to add damage, but it does get access to pretty decent healing.

Granted, since its resource runs off of short rests, who knows. It could be really strong depending on how you spend your points, but since all of its abilities run off of those points, it doesn't seem to be too strong. Maybe if it got more Inspiration points (say, add your INT modifier to it), it'd be better. As is, its weakest point seems to be damage output (though it is accurate with its attacks), and its skills are crazy (almost all key off the same stat, plus double proficiency bonus in every single skill, granted, the last bit doesn't come out until very late, but still).

Its very strong outside of combat, but in-combat, it seems that it functions best as a support, which is alright, but I can't gauge whether its really that effective at that role.

Fair enough, I really appreciate the feedback. The Cunning surge works a bit like an extra attack (or extra spell), but it does come on late and can not be spammed effectively (especially if you are using it to cast a spell). The INT to damage with Cunning Strike also helps, but costs resources. I may end up changing that ability once i get a proper archetype for damage. The archetype will probably include something like a passive INT to damage. Still a WIP. I hope to have the first archtype written up soon :)

Wartex1
2017-02-03, 09:28 PM
The faux Action Surge seems to be most effective with Spells anyways.

I'm conflicted on whether you should add INT to Inspiration, since it does refill on short rests.

retaliation08
2017-02-03, 10:10 PM
The faux Action Surge seems to be most effective with Spells anyways.

I'm conflicted on whether you should add INT to Inspiration, since it does refill on short rests.

Well I based the number of Inspiration points off of Ki points from the Monk class. Granted, this class may rely on Inspiration points more than the Monk relies on Ki. I think if anything needs to change in regards to Inspiration Points it may have to come from altering the Inspiration cost of the class features or removing the cost all together for a certain feature and making it rest dependent.

P.S. The first archetype is complete. Not super thrilled about it right now, but it has some potential. PEACH

Ziegander
2017-02-03, 11:25 PM
I think proficiency and eventually expertise in all skills is unwarranted and overpowered.

As far as spellcasting goes via Burlesque Magic, I'd agree, it does feel a bit weak. Only knowing four spells ever is pretty bad, but having four "spell slots," per short rest even if they are at their base levels and they are locked in, is pretty decent.

I would say you could probably let them learn up to two spells per spell level of levels 1 to 5, or maybe just one 4th and one 5th level, but then let them cast any spell they know once per long rest using an inspiration point? That would be closer to the 3.5 version and let them know more spells at least, but it would usually be fewer "slots" per day.

As this class is massively based on inspiration points and by virtue of that, on the short rest mechanic, you can compare it to the Warlock. At each level, how do you think the two classes balance against one another? I tens to feel Warlock are on the weak side unless they focus on Eldritch Blast, and I'd say that this class, to me, looks a bit weaker still.

retaliation08
2017-02-03, 11:51 PM
I think proficiency and eventually expertise in all skills is unwarranted and overpowered.

As far as spellcasting goes via Burlesque Magic, I'd agree, it does feel a bit weak. Only knowing four spells ever is pretty bad, but having four "spell slots," per short rest even if they are at their base levels and they are locked in, is pretty decent.

I would say you could probably let them learn up to two spells per spell level of levels 1 to 5, or maybe just one 4th and one 5th level, but then let them cast any spell they know once per long rest using an inspiration point? That would be closer to the 3.5 version and let them know more spells at least, but it would usually be fewer "slots" per day.

As this class is massively based on inspiration points and by virtue of that, on the short rest mechanic, you can compare it to the Warlock. At each level, how do you think the two classes balance against one another? I tens to feel Warlock are on the weak side unless they focus on Eldritch Blast, and I'd say that this class, to me, looks a bit weaker still.

The deal with the proficiency and expertise was me trying to emulate the fact that Factotums in 3.5 had every skill as a class skill. I ended up going with Jack of all Trades here, which is really solid, but doesn't really make this Factotum any better at skills that a Bard. Maybe it doesn't need to be. I was trying to stick to the spirit of the 3.5 class.

Universal Expertise? I can see how that is overpowered, but then again, at that level of play, how overpowered is it compared to the spells that other classes get? I will have to look at it more closely before I decide.

As for Burlesque Magic, I am hesitant to put more power here as it could cause the Arcane Dilettante to become too over powered has a 1/2 caster. I guess, a few more spells known would probably be safe, and I will look into that.

The real challenge here has been making the Factotum good at a lot of things, but not overpowered at any one thing. Maybe I have reined the class in a bit too much. I tried to make up for that by making it an uber skill monkey, but perhaps that is not an appropriate balance.

Thanks for your insight, and I hope to have more in the future :)

Ziegander
2017-02-04, 01:49 AM
The deal with the proficiency and expertise was me trying to emulate the fact that Factotums in 3.5 had every skill as a class skill. I ended up going with Jack of all Trades here, which is really solid, but doesn't really make this Factotum any better at skills that a Bard. Maybe it doesn't need to be. I was trying to stick to the spirit of the 3.5 class.

Universal Expertise? I can see how that is overpowered, but then again, at that level of play, how overpowered is it compared to the spells that other classes get? I will have to look at it more closely before I decide.

Overpowered, I suppose, wasn't the right word. But, for example, Rogues get four skills, the most of any 5e class. Comparatively, you've given the Factotum eighteen skills, more than quadruple. Now, in 5e, skills don't mean a lot of direct power, or even necessarily a lot of utility, but you've basically said, for out of combat resolution mechanics, no other class needs to really bother. Especially with universal expertise.

I would suggest going the route of the Bard. Choose any three skills (four if you must), then give them Jack of All Trades (the class feature), perhaps even at 1st level.


As for Burlesque Magic, I am hesitant to put more power here as it could cause the Arcane Dilettante to become too over powered has a 1/2 caster. I guess, a few more spells known would probably be safe, and I will look into that.

I don't know that it would be much of a direct power upgrade, but, yeah, with the Arcane Dilettante subclass working as it does (and I do like the concept of Arcane Dilettante and Opportunistic Devotee as subclasses), I can understand.


The real challenge here has been making the Factotum good at a lot of things, but not overpowered at any one thing. Maybe I have reined the class in a bit too much. I tried to make up for that by making it an uber skill monkey, but perhaps that is not an appropriate balance.

Thanks for your insight, and I hope to have more in the future :)

The Factotum was my favorite class concept in all of 3.5, but it suffered from basically the exact same problems as your 5e version. In 3.5, you could do skill cheese to make up for the weaknesses in combat, but a) it was ludicrously, epicly cheesy, and b) it shoehorned you into one, maybe two viable builds. Unfortunately (well, for your Factotum, fortunately for all of our sanity), 5e just doesn't have any kind of cheese like that, so your Factotum is left standing on its own merits, which, right now are comparatively weak.

It doesn't need much, I wouldn't say, but for now, it seems just noticeably unbalanced. It makes skills entirely irrelevant for any other party member while falling behind in virtually every other area. But I do have an idea. I mentioned balancing the class against the Warlock. The bones are already there: short-rest based class features, four spell slots per day. What I propose, then, is making the Arcane Dilettante and Opportunistic Devotee balanced in a one-to-one (ish) translation with the Warlock. Dial down the skillmonkeying in the base class to a more reasonable level. Then, give each subclass up to 9th level spells. What?! Let the "spell slots" that the base class has level up to 5th level, like Warlock, rather than being cast at their base level, give each subclass more spells known, and then also give them their own versions of "mystic arcanums" that still cost tons of inspiration points to use, and can only be cast once per long rest. I think there's a lot of merit to this approach, if handled correctly. If you find it truly necessary, you can even crop much closer to the 3.5 version and only give them a 6th and 7th level "arcanum" for each subclass.

retaliation08
2017-02-04, 02:22 AM
Overpowered, I suppose, wasn't the right word. But, for example, Rogues get four skills, the most of any 5e class. Comparatively, you've given the Factotum eighteen skills, more than quadruple. Now, in 5e, skills don't mean a lot of direct power, or even necessarily a lot of utility, but you've basically said, for out of combat resolution mechanics, no other class needs to really bother. Especially with universal expertise.

I would suggest going the route of the Bard. Choose any three skills (four if you must), then give them Jack of All Trades (the class feature), perhaps even at 1st level.

Bahaha I had already done this in my notes yesterday and not updated on this thread. That caused a bit of a misunderstanding between us I think haha. I initially made the change because all skills trivialized any skills gained from race and background. The updated version should read choose 3 skills of your choice and jack of all trades at level 1. I am still considering whether or not to dump Universal Expertise largely because I don't know what feature to replace it with. I guess I could just dish out normal expertise like the Rogue gets. I don't want this class to mean less fun for the other party members by diminishing their skills either.



I don't know that it would be much of a direct power upgrade, but, yeah, with the Arcane Dilettante subclass working as it does (and I do like the concept of Arcane Dilettante and Opportunistic Devotee as subclasses), I can understand.

What do you think of the Arcane Dilettante subclass? The Arcane inspiration mechanic I think will work well and add versatility. I am unsure about the Arcane Defense ability's balance. And I kind of feel cheap for sniping Spell Thief from Arcane Trickster, even though it does fit well thematically IMO.




The Factotum was my favorite class concept in all of 3.5, but it suffered from basically the exact same problems as your 5e version. In 3.5, you could do skill cheese to make up for the weaknesses in combat, but a) it was ludicrously, epicly cheesy, and b) it shoehorned you into one, maybe two viable builds. Unfortunately (well, for your Factotum, fortunately for all of our sanity), 5e just doesn't have any kind of cheese like that, so your Factotum is left standing on its own merits, which, right now are comparatively weak.
But I do have an idea. I mentioned balancing the class against the Warlock. The bones are already there: short-rest based class features, four spell slots per day. What I propose, then, is making the Arcane Dilettante and Opportunistic Devotee balanced in a one-to-one (ish) translation with the Warlock. Dial down the skillmonkeying in the base class to a more reasonable level. Then, give each subclass up to 9th level spells. What?! Let the "spell slots" that the base class has level up to 5th level, like Warlock, rather than being cast at their base level, give each subclass more spells known, and then also give them their own versions of "mystic arcanums" that still cost tons of inspiration points to use, and can only be cast once per long rest. I think there's a lot of merit to this approach, if handled correctly. If you find it truly necessary, you can even crop much closer to the 3.5 version and only give them a 6th and 7th level "arcanum" for each subclass.

This is something that I will explore. My one fear in writing this class was making the Factotum a more powerful caster than the full casting classes. This would be bad mechanically and thematically, especially since Factotums merely dabble in magic casting very crude forms of it. IMO, they should not even come close to the amount of spell power that a full caster has. I added the Clever Retort ability in order to give them a chance to replicate higher level spells, but I am unsure about allowing access to those high level spells via spell slots. I will work a few things and see if it feels right. If not, I may have to take a different approach to boosting the Factotums effectiveness through other class features.

I have a lot more to consider now, a bittersweet blessing :)

P.S. I want to apologize as I failed to update this thread with the new class information, I had only updated it for my HomeBrewery link (which is currently having issues). I think you will find, now that the updated notes are available, that the class is more balanced than it initially looked. If I seemed at all controversial or resistant to some of your ideas it was due to the miscommunication from these updated class notes being unavailable to you all. I really do appreciate all of your feedback, and I hope for more :)

retaliation08
2017-02-04, 07:23 PM
Ok, I have created 5e Factotum 2.0 using much of the advice I have heard in this thread. The class functions much like the Warlock, having Inspiration Points as a resource rather than Invocations. I have completed 3 archetypes: one martial, one arcane, and one divine.

I encourage you all to have a fresh look and let me know what you think. I have spent some time comparing to other classes, but most of my time so far has been allocated to simply finishing a product. There is still much balancing that needs to be done, and I will continue to make tweaks according to imbalances that I notice in addition to any feedback from the community.

Cheers!

Wartex1
2017-02-04, 10:02 PM
The class just needs one minor fix.

18th level is a dead one. You gain nothing besides an inspiration point.

Lonely Tylenol
2017-02-05, 02:32 AM
Being able to draw from the full Wizard list for the spell list is a bit much, especially for a class with an archetype that gets 9ths. The Warlock is budgeted around this short rest, all-slots-are-the-same mechanic by having a relatively small and narrowly-focused spell list, especially for their Mystic Arcanum. All told, the Warlock has five different spell levels (4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, and 9th) with five of fewer unique spells on it!

The Factotum, by contrast, has the Warlock's spell recovery mechanic, but casts out of the best spell list in the game, which thus far only one class has unmitigated access to (Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight only cast spells from certain schools off the Wizard list, and are 1/3 casters). This makes the Factotum (in particular the Arcane Dilettante) one of the best casters in the game by default, as a full Wizard list caster with access to 9ths, and you have a great chassis with awesome class features to supplement your casting (can self-heal, skill monkey-tier proficiencies and Expertise, can boost your own saves with your casting stat with no action cost, etc).

Any chance of you narrowing down the list of available schools the Factotum could choose from? Or at least going Sorcerer instead?

retaliation08
2017-02-05, 02:45 AM
Any chance of you narrowing down the list of available schools the Factotum could choose from? Or at least going Sorcerer instead?

I actually had initially limited the schools to conjuration and transmutation as those seemed like the most appropriate schools for dungeon solving. perhaps i will put that feature back in place . The reason I removed it was to balance the Arcane dilettante and the Devout Opportunist.

The Opportunist gets nearly double the spells known by level 10 as the Dilettante, coupled with the ability to change half of them every day. The spell diversity gap was widened by the fact that the Dilettante only got to choose two schools. The Dilettante was structured more around casting more spells per day from a smaller selection while the Opportunist had a wide selection with fewer slots available.

Do you think the balance between the two archetypes will be too great if I implement the change you suggest? Or are both archetypes overpowered?

Sorcerer casting fits better thematically with the Factotums manner of casting, but lacks many of the utility spells that a Factotum would find handy. I will consider deeply, and choose the most balanced approach. Hopefully such a thing exists!

Lonely Tylenol
2017-02-05, 03:11 AM
I actually had initially limited the schools to conjuration and transmutation as those seemed like the most appropriate schools for dungeon solving. perhaps i will put that feature back in place . The reason I removed it was to balance the Arcane dilettante and the Devout Opportunist.

The Opportunist gets nearly double the spells known by level 10 as the Dilettante, coupled with the ability to change half of them every day. The spell diversity gap was widened by the fact that the Dilettante only got to choose two schools. The Dilettante was structured more around casting more spells per day from a smaller selection while the Opportunist had a wide selection with fewer slots available.

Do you think the balance between the two archetypes will be too great if I implement the change you suggest? Or are both archetypes overpowered?

Both archetypes are overpowered, honestly, with the casting up to 9ths. They both get casting that outpaces the Warlock's shtick, with the Mystic Arcanum analogues, while not being a "caster class" and balanced around that assumption. (The other parts aren't inherently bad.)

But if you wanted to give the Arcane Dilettante something to balance it out, why not let it pick one school to add to its casting? You could do this regardless of whether you keep the Mystic Arcanum parts. (EDIT: This is in addition to the baseline of Conjuration + Transmutation, so Arcane Dilettante would get three schools, and Pious Opportunist would get two schools plus a domain of their choice.)

retaliation08
2017-02-05, 03:24 AM
Both archetypes are overpowered, honestly, with the casting up to 9ths. They both get casting that outpaces the Warlock's shtick, with the Mystic Arcanum analogues, while not being a "caster class" and balanced around that assumption. (The other parts aren't inherently bad.)

But if you wanted to give the Arcane Dilettante something to balance it out, why not let it pick one school to add to its casting? You could do this regardless of whether you keep the Mystic Arcanum parts. (EDIT: This is in addition to the baseline of Conjuration + Transmutation, so Arcane Dilettante would get three schools, and Pious Opportunist would get two schools plus a domain of their choice.)

I think that would balance well personally. I added the Arcanum feature in response to people claiming the class was too weak, but I have moved around and added many things since then. I think the Arcanum feature may be overkill now.

The nice thing about it, though, was that it was easy to fill out the features for two of my archetypes haha. I will have to get creative again :)

I haven't heard anything from anyone about the martial archetype yet. Do you think it is ok? I ran some damage simulations compared to fighter and it seemed like it does better persistent dpr than the fighter, while the fighter is able to unleash far more damage in burst amounts by burning superiority and action surge. The Factotum has a deeper pool of resources which helps it sustain damage.

Any thoughts on that?

I will begin work on a version 3.0 removing the Arcanum mechanic and rebalancing the casting.

P.S. I don't know if you noticed, but the base class does not get cantrips as a means of balance. Do you think it should?

Edit: The main issue with removing the faux arcanum is that the casting archetypes stop getting spells at level 9. I am going to take a closer look at the Warlock to evaluate just how much the Factotum's other class features are outclassing the Patron features/invocations

Arkhios
2017-02-05, 04:34 AM
A few points that came up when I was reading this.

First: why constitution saving throw proficiency? Somehow, I felt that Dexterity would make more sense instead.

Second: Brains over Brawn is rather moot point because everyone can use different ability modifier than is default with right amount of reasoning with your DM.

Otherwise it seems quite alright. Not sure about balance right after first inspection, but nothing big raised its head to me - yet.

retaliation08
2017-02-05, 04:44 AM
A few points that came up when I was reading this.

First: why constitution saving throw proficiency? Somehow, I felt that Dexterity would make more sense instead.

Second: Brains over Brawn is rather moot point because everyone can use different ability modifier than is default with right amount of reasoning with your DM.

Otherwise it seems quite alright. Not sure about balance right after first inspection, but nothing big raised its head to me - yet.

I don't know why con haha. I must have missed that when I was proof reading. It is supposed to be dex.

In 3.5 Brains over Brawn added your int to every physical ability check. I initially had brains over brawn as a 3rd level feature here, as it was in 3.5, so I changed to to only use Int in place of the respective physical stat. This was to mitigate the ability for wizards or other int classes to abuse a short dip into Factotum in order to get their main stat to all physical checks. After realizing the strength that dip would give to other classes, I decided it might be too overpowered and reduced its power. Then a few revisions later I made it a 5th level ability. I think as a fifth level ability, it may be safe to have BoB work as it did in 3.5 (ie. d20+dex+int to initiative), but i felt it was too strong for an entry level ability.

Ziegander
2017-02-05, 08:31 PM
I'm sorry, if I was misleading. My initial thought was that it would be fine to keep the base class's casting set at four spells known, one "slot" for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level, but then expand the arcane and divine subclasses into scaled level spell slots with expanded spell lists and including "arcanum slot" mechanics for higher level spells.

I would agree that it's either too powerful, or just too much casting, for the base class to have such powerful casting on its own.

With respect to the objections, perhaps it is safe, then, to reduce the "arcanums" of the arcane and divine subclasses to 7th level (just two arcanum slots, then). Having "half casting" on a warlock recovery method with a martial subclass isn't impossible to balance, but it is trickier. Maybe tone things down some and see where you are from there.

retaliation08
2017-02-05, 08:56 PM
With my first version of this class, the base class got 4 spells known of up to 4th level. Those spells could be cast for 1 inspiration point per level of spell. Inspiration points reset on a short rest. I feel like the base class casting with version 2.1 is not much stronger than that. Basically getting a larger pool of spells with a fixed number of castings.

Sure the casting accelerates more quickly before stagnating and goes up to 5th level spells, but only 4 slots are available for casting spells, where as before spells were spammable as long as there were inspiration points for it. I think the real strength version 2.1 has over the original version is in the number of spells known.


I'm sorry, if I was misleading. My initial thought was that it would be fine to keep the base class's casting set at four spells known, one "slot" for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level, but then expand the arcane and divine subclasses into scaled level spell slots with expanded spell lists and including "arcanum slot" mechanics for higher level spells.

The issue with this was logistic when I tried to implement it because the archetypes were learning 6th level spells and higher before they were learning 4th level spells. That just made no sense at all as much as I tried moving things around to make it work.


Having "half casting" on a warlock recovery method with a martial subclass isn't impossible to balance, but it is trickier. Maybe tone things down some and see where you are from there.

I am not sure what you mean here about balancing the casting with a martial subclass. Are you saying that the martial archetype that i have is unbalanced? If so, please explain what parts so that I can address them. Compared to a Bladelock, I didn't think it seemed overpowered but I may have missed a few key things.


I hope to hear back from you about these points. In the meantime I am going to explore other possibilities with the casting mechanics. Cheers :)

EDIT: Also, I am not sure if you noticed but I did limit the base casting to the schools of conjuration and transmutation where as in previous versions there was no school restriction. This class does have much more casting than I originally intended, but the increased casting was born out of my attempts to create the archetypes in a way that made sense.

Arkhios
2017-02-06, 05:24 AM
In 3.5 Brains over Brawn added your int to every physical ability check. I initially had brains over brawn as a 3rd level feature here, as it was in 3.5, so I changed to to only use Int in place of the respective physical stat. This was to mitigate the ability for wizards or other int classes to abuse a short dip into Factotum in order to get their main stat to all physical checks. After realizing the strength that dip would give to other classes, I decided it might be too overpowered and reduced its power. Then a few revisions later I made it a 5th level ability. I think as a fifth level ability, it may be safe to have BoB work as it did in 3.5 (ie. d20+dex+int to initiative), but i felt it was too strong for an entry level ability.

I think you may have misunderstood my point. 5th edition rules as per RAW already allow you, the player, to propose the use of another ability score for a skill check. For example, if you wanted to make an intimidation check but wanted to roll it with Strength due to nonverbal communication, a DM could let you. Likewise, explaining a detailed plan of something causing serious harm to someone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z6o1GIEsQE) as a "possibility if the other were to do something wrong" might be considered an intelligence (intimidation) check.

My point being, the Brains over Brawn is somewhat redundant in this light, and might need to be reiterated, or scrapped.

retaliation08
2017-02-06, 05:54 AM
Version 3.0 is LIVE!

Lots of new changes with this version:

- 3/4 casting based on long rest

- Spell list changed to Sorcerer as full Wizard casting was too strong and limiting schools is not thematically proper

- Spells are now prepared after finishing a long rest

- Cunning Surge now costs 5 Inspiration points instead of 3

- Nebulous casting feature that functions like Wild Magic Surge to reinforce the Dilettante theme of the class

- The casting archetypes now cast their spells using Inspiration Points/ spell level and can do so at will

- Arcane Dilettante gains access to meta-magic which fits thematically. Meta-magic costs are paid for with Inspiration Points

- Pious Opportunist can prepare Cleric spells and gains access to Channel Divinity options

- Valiant Savant now gains up to 3 attacks through the extra attack feature

- Capstones for base class and all archetypes have changed

- Other class features moved around to facilitate the new changes



I would like to explain the reason for some of these changes to aid you all in your evaluation.

At first glance Arcane Dilettante will seem overpowered. I did not make the decision to give it access to meta-magic lightly. I did so at the risk of trivializing the Sorcerer class. I may have crossed that line, but I will wait to see what you have to say.

My reasoning was both theme and balance driven:

- Factotums have always copied other classes' abilities.

- Dilettantes have to cast their spells and pay for meta-magic out of the same resource pool. At level 20 this means a Dilettante has to spend a minimum of 8/20 of its Inspiration points to meta-magic it's highest level spell. That is using half of its resources in one turn, which is a high cost.

- Dilettantes have the same spell list as Sorcerers, but can prepare fewer spells than a Sorcerer knows.

The Pious Opportunist changes are reasoned as follows:

- Granting domain spells would progress casting at an inconsistent rate so I opted to give them full access to the Cleric list.

- I added Channel Divinity based on domain and changeable daily to reinforce the Opportunist theme.

- The faux divine intervention capstone was the best capstone I could think of that fit thematically, though I am not super pleased with it. I picture the Pious Opportunist using his wit to bargain or persuade a Deity to help him in a time of need. I think it works, although it is a little lame that Paladins do not gain access to this ability when a Factotum does...



And Savant changes:

Really the only change here was adding another extra attack and moving Knowledge Devotion to be the capstone. I added the extra attack so that the Savant could keep up with DPR without expending too many resources. He can burst DPR by using Cunning Surge with Knowledge Devotion on every attack, but this is associated with heavy resource tax. I may yet increase the Inspiration point cost of Knowledge Devotion to 5 points, but if I did then I think it would make more sense to simply spam Cunning Surge as 2-3 extra attacks does more damage than 1 max damage attack on average, especially when adding Int to damage for each strike via Cunning Strike.

Overall, I think this is the best version yet. Although it may still be pushing the power envelope, I think this is the closest to the spirit of the 3.5 class that I have been.

So let's hear it!

retaliation08
2017-02-07, 06:20 AM
Well i polished a few things and posted this class to the DMs Guild. If you are interested in giving it a try, you can find the most recent version there. Thanks for all of your support!

untrippable
2017-02-08, 08:45 PM
The PDF I got from DM's guild really needs some cleanup. The factotum gets jack of all trades at level 1, then again at level 2. Half the metamagics still use sorcery points. The pages right before the archetype features are just a mess, duplicate features all over the place and the abilities are listed out of order.

I like the class, only change I'd make (just to fit the 5e design style a bit more) is to switch out flat bonuses from Cunning Insight to be dice instead. Like a 1d4 initially, up to 1d10 or something. Basically a weaker Bardic Inspiration that only affects the self.

retaliation08
2017-02-10, 02:49 PM
Hey thanks for the suggestions! I did go through and clean up the formatting issues. I will do another double check as I may have missed something that you pointed out.

I think Cunning Insight bonuses scale fairly well with the average roll of a Bardic Inspiration die for the level. Bardic Inspiration starts at 1d6 (average 3-4) and goes up to 1d12 (average 6-7). Int modifier for Factotums using standard point buy should be +2-3 to begin and end at +5. I thought this was fair, considering it is a static bonus slightly lower than the average Bardic Inspiration roll. I will admit that this bonus is a bit front loaded toward the early levels of the class and depends on the Factotum capping Int at 20. Given the mechanics of the class I would expect most Factotums to be fairly SAD and end up capping Int.

What thoughts do you have in regards to that?