CR/ECL assignment thread.

[Avianmosquito]

This is a pretty straight-forward thread. I'm going to pop in here with monsters from Aelsif, and you guys are going to decide what its CR or level adjustment should be. I'll go one monster per post, to help keep things simple. Any extra commentary on the monsters themselves is welcome, but not the point of this thread. Please only post if you have a CR or level adjustment. Just remember that some of these may not be intended to be balanced encounters.

Here's the first one. It's a non-player race, so we're looking for level adjustment here. (And probably a pretty big one.)

Deep Hybrids:
Monstrous humanoid (aquatic), celestial (hybrid)
Medium sized
+4 Strength, +4 constitution, -4 intelligence, -4 wisdom
Automatic Language: Deep-speak
Favored class: Barbarian

DR 5/--

Darkvision (Ex): Deep hybrids can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and deep hybrids can function just fine with no light at all.

Fascinating Glow (Ex): As a free action, a deep hybrid can emit a bright light from its body at will, forcing all viewers to make a Will save (DC 13) at the start of each round or become fascinated for that round. This is a mind-affecting ability. A successful save grants immunity for 24 hours. This light is bright enough to trigger light sensitivity if looked directly at within 10 feet. While glowing, deep hybrids automatically fail Hide checks and are dazzled by their own light sensitivity. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Fast healing (Ex): Deep hybrids heal exceptionally quickly, restoring 1 hit point per round.

Frightful Presence (Ex): The mere sight of a deep hybrid produces fear in living creatures, forcing a Will save (DC 13) to avoid becoming shaken for 5d6 rounds. A successful save grants immunity for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Grasp of the Deep (Ex): As a full round action, a deep hybrid may use a tongue emerges that emerges from either of its hands to make a 30-foot ranged grapple. If it hits, the target takes 1d6+Str bludgeon damage. A successful Reflex save (DC 15), halves the damage and negates the grapple. Grappled creatures are automatically pulled 30 feet closer the next round and take 1d6+Str points of bludgeon damage unless another successful Reflex save is made (DC 15), which halves the damage and also negates the grapple. A grappled target may also make a Strength check (DC 13) to pull free of the grapple. Every round after this until the grapple is released, the target automatically takes an additional 1d6+Str points of bludgeon damage. The tongue has DR 5 and releases if it takes any damage. The save and check DCs are Strength-based.

Light Sensitivity (Ex): A deep hybrid is dazzled whenever it is inside an area of bright light.

Luring Hum (Ex): In and out of water, a deep hybrid can emit a telepathic hum as a free action to draw prey. This hum affects all creatures within a 120-foot radius. Those affected hear this as if it were an actual sound. All who hear it must make a Will save (DC 10+Cha modifier) or approach the deep hybrid as if subjected to a command spell. This is a mind-affecting ability. While humming, deep hybrids automatically fail Move Silently checks and take a -1 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skills, and saving throws. Mindless creatures and those that can see the deep hybrid are immune to this ability. Creatures that make their save are unaffected by that deep hybrid's luring hum for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Natural weapons (Ex): A deep hybrid has an improved bite attack, which deals 1d6 points of damage.

Stealth Predator (Ex): While underwater, deep hybrids gain a +4 bonus to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search and Spot checks.

Swallow Whole (Ex): If a deep hybrid has established a grapple with another creature, it can make another grapple check on its next turn in order to draw that creature into its mouth. A creature starting its turn inside a deep hybrid's mouth is automatically dealt damage equal to that of the deep hybrid's bite attack every round, until it or the deep hybrid is dead, or until it is released. On the next turn, it may swallow a creature in its mouth. A creature in its stomach can still attack it, but takes 1d6+Con modifier acid damage each round. Against a target in its mouth or stomach, a deep hybrid loses its dexterity bonuses to armour class. The deep hybrid may swallow a creature up to one size smaller than itself.

Wail of the Outer Sea (Ex): At will as a free action, a deep hybrid may naturally produce a telepathic wail which affects every creature within a 30-foot radius with a -4 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skill checks and saving throws until the wailing stops. This wail also affects itself. This wailing produces no actual sound, it is a mind-affecting effect. A successful Will save (DC 10+Int modifier) negates. When a saving throw has been failed, the effect continues with no additional saving throw until the wailing stops or the affected character moves out of range. The save DC is Intelligence-based.

Water Dependency (Ex): A deep hybrid can survive out of water for 1 hour per two points in its Constitution score, after which it begins to drown.

Deep hybrids* are the hybrid children of the sahuagin and something else entirely. What their other half is has never been confirmed, but speculation lies below. They are sterile, but despite it being ongoing the method of their production has never been revealed. They are of normal sahuagin height and weight, but are oddly discoloured, with a green-black and dark blue complexion, and glow at will. They are unintelligent and bestial, less social than ordinary sahuagin and feature bizarre anatomical features such as a toothless mouth on each palm from which an impossibly long tongue can emerge, very reminiscent of a Grasp of the Deep artifact. In trade, they lack a normal sahuagin's claws. Their eyes are disproportionately large, even for sahuagin, they have slightly longer than normal arms and smaller than normal heads, with enlarged fins acrossed their body. Four pairs of stalks line the top of their head from front to back, and these visibly shake when they wail.

The report of the elven scholar Verite Faiseur (let's see if anybody gets the two jokes in this name) says that at age ten sahuagin girls are sent into the temples of the sahuagin deity It Yeek'Kal Thet**, and do not emerge until age fourteen. Elves are known to fabricate information to demonize the "savage" races, but he goes into great detail on the somber ceremony on a sahuagin girl's 10th name-day and the celebration when she is released on her 14th, which does not sound like he is trying to demonize them. If anything, he seems to be suggesting that the sahuagin despise doing this.

Verite also notes that these temples are the same ones the deep hybrids emerge from as newborn pups. This seems unlikely to be a coincidence. Deep hybrids also immediately leave for the ocean, unlike normal sahuagin pups who are incorporated into tribal activities from birth. While the sahuagin at the temple warned Verite that any further questioning would result in his expulsion from the village, and it did, other sahuagin villagers claimed the pups were leaving "to be with their father", singular.

This seems to fit with what Verite knows of the sahuagin religion. It Yeek'Kal Thet is the chief deity of sahuagin religion, and their goddess of the deep ocean. She represents the sahuagin fear of the deep water and the otherworldly horrors that dwell within, of which they claim she herself is one. She is presented normally as a sociopathic, abusive mother, one the sahuagin need to survive but also one that may harm or kill them for little reason. She is claimed to despise change, be fond of repetitive and ritualistic tasks, be a poor communicator and is said to intentionally harm herself, all traits also associated with the deep hybrids. The only hole in this idea is that It Yeek'Kal Thet is generally portrayed as female, and her being the father raises several questions. There's also little evidence she actually exists in the first place, though there's even less evidence for most other deities.

*While referred to as "deep hybrids" here, most people in-universe refer to them as "deep bastards". All hybrid races in Aelsif are called "bastards", and while vulgar this is also quite literal. Interspecies relations are socially unacceptable (and occasionally illegal) in most Aelsif cultures, so almost without exception hybrids are illegitimate children, bastards, by both cultural and legal definition. Nevertheless, in this instance it might not be an accurate term, as the deep hybrids appear to be born in a somewhat culturally accepted (despised but seen as necessary) manner and both parents may or may not take part in their upbringing depending on details we have no access to.

**This translates literally into common as "The Empty Deep", which is a pretty literal interpretation of her domain. However, there are problems with this translation. While "It" is an equivalent to "the" and "Thet" does translate to "deep" as in regards to water, it's "Yeek'Kal" that is the problem. "Yeek" is both a personifier and a superlative, it basically means "defined entirely by" in regards to an entity, and while "Kal" means "empty" in most contexts for a being it means "empty" but implies "stupid", so "Yeek'Kal" would be more akin to "vacuous", meaning "showing a lack of intelligence, mindless, empty-headed". As such, "The Vacuous Deep" is a much more accurate translation, and "The Stupid Deep" is an acceptable simplification.

Below are 1HD and 5HD (recommended) versions of the creature.

Deep Hybrid, Warrior 1
Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic), Celestial (Hybrid)
Hit Dice: 1d8+3 (7 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), Swim 40 ft.
Armor class: 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+4
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (10ft with longspear or 30 ft. with Grasp of the Deep)
Special Attacks: Fascinating Glow, Grasp of the Deep (1d6+3), Luring Hum, Swallow Whole,Wail of the Outer Sea
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/—, darkvision 60 ft., Fast Healing 1, Frightful Presence, Light Sensitivity, Stealth Predator, Water Dependent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +0, Will -2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 17, Int 4, Cha 12, Wis 6
Skills: Swim +4
Feats: Weapon Focus (Longspear)
Environment: Any water
Organization: Solitary, pair, or team (3-6).
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1
Equipment: Longspear, potion of cure light wounds

Darkvision (Ex): Deep hybrids can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and deep hybrids can function just fine with no light at all.

Fascinating Glow (Ex): As a free action, a deep hybrid can emit a bright light from its body at will, forcing all viewers to make a Will save (DC 11) at the start of each round or become fascinated for that round. This is a mind-affecting ability. This light is bright enough to trigger light sensitivity if looked directly at within 10 feet. While glowing, deep hybrids automatically fail Hide checks and are dazzled by their own light sensitivity. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Fast healing (Ex): Deep hybrids heal exceptionally quickly, restoring 1 hit point per round.

Frightful Presence (Ex): The mere sight of a deep hybrid produces fear in living creatures, forcing a Will save (DC 11) to avoid becoming shaken for 5d6 rounds. A successful save grants immunity for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Grasp of the Deep (Ex): As a full round action, a deep hybrid may use a tongue emerges that emerges from either of its hands to make a 30-foot ranged grapple. If it hits, the target takes 1d6+3 points of damage (1d6+Str modifier). A successful Reflex save (DC 13), halves the damage and negates the grapple. Grappled creatures are automatically pulled 30 feet closer the next round and take 1d6+3 points of damage unless another successful Reflex save is made (DC 13), which halves the damage and also negates the grapple. Every round after this until the grapple is released, the target automatically takes an additional 1d6+Str points of bludgeon damage. A grappled target may also make a Strength check (DC 13) to pull free of the grapple. The tongue has DR 5 and releases if it takes any damage. The save and check DCs are Strength-based.

Light Sensitivity (Ex): A deep hybrid is dazzled whenever it is inside an area of bright light.

Luring Hum (Ex): In and out of water, a deep hybrid can emit a telepathic hum as a free action to draw prey. This hum affects all creatures within a 120-foot radius. Those affected hear this as if it were an actual sound. All who hear it must make a Will save (DC 11) or approach the deep hybrid as if subjected to a command spell. This is a mind-affecting ability. While humming, deep hybrids automatically fail Move Silently checks and take a -1 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skills, and saving throws. Mindless creatures and those that can see the deep hybrid are immune to this ability. Creatures that make their save are unaffected by that deep hybrid's luring hum for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Natural weapons (Ex): A deep hybrid has an improved bite attack, which deals 1d6 points of damage.

Stealth Predator (Ex): While underwater, deep hybrids gain a +4 bonus to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search and Spot checks.

Swallow Whole (Ex): If a deep hybrid has established a grapple with another creature, it can make another grapple check on its next turn in order to draw that creature into its mouth. A creature starting its turn inside a deep hybrid's mouth is automatically dealt damage equal to that of the deep hybrid's bite attack every round, until it or the deep hybrid is dead, or until it is released. On the next turn, it may swallow a creature in its mouth. A creature in its stomach can still attack it, but takes 1d6+3 acid damage each round (1d6+Con modifier). Against a target in its mouth or stomach, a deep hybrid loses its dexterity bonuses to armour class. The deep hybrid may swallow a creature up to one size smaller than itself.

Wail of the Outer Sea (Ex): At will as a free action, a deep hybrid may naturally produce a telepathic wail which affects every creature within a 30-foot radius with a -4 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skill checks and saving throws until the wailing stops. This wail also affects itself. This wailing produces no actual sound, it is a mind-affecting effect. A successful Will save (DC 7) negates. When a saving throw has been failed, the effect continues with no additional saving throw until the wailing stops or the affected character moves out of range. The save DC is Intelligence-based.

Water Dependency (Ex): A deep hybrid can survive out of water for 1 hour per two points in its Constitution score, after which it begins to drown.

Deep Hybrid, Warrior 5
Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic), Celestial (Hybrid)
Hit Dice: 5d8+20 (42 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), Swim 40 ft.
Armor class: 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+8
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d6+3) or +1 longspear +10 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d6+3) or +1 longspear +10 melee (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (10ft with longspear or 30 ft. with Grasp of the Deep)
Special Attacks: Fascinating Glow, Grasp of the Deep (1d6+3), Luring Hum, Swallow Whole,Wail of the Outer Sea
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/—, darkvision 60 ft., Fast Healing 1, Frightful Presence, Light Sensitivity, Stealth Predator, Water Dependent
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +1, Will -1
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 4, Cha 12, Wis 6
Skills: Swim +8
Feats: Weapon Focus (Longspear), Spell Resistance 10 (5+HD)
Environment: Any water
Organization: Solitary, pair, or team (3-6).
Challenge Rating: 5
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1
Equipment: Longspear+1, potion of cure moderate wounds or potion of barkskin

Darkvision (Ex): Deep hybrids can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and deep hybrids can function just fine with no light at all.

Fascinating Glow (Ex): As a free action, a deep hybrid can emit a bright light from its body at will, forcing all viewers to make a Will save (DC 13) at the start of each round or become fascinated for that round. This is a mind-affecting ability. This light is bright enough to trigger light sensitivity if looked directly at within 10 feet. While glowing, deep hybrids automatically fail Hide checks and are dazzled by their own light sensitivity. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Fast healing (Ex): Deep hybrids heal exceptionally quickly, restoring 1 hit point per round.

Frightful Presence (Ex): The mere sight of a deep hybrid produces fear in living creatures, forcing a Will save (DC 13) to avoid becoming shaken for 5d6 rounds. A successful save grants immunity for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Grasp of the Deep (Ex): As a full round action, a deep hybrid may use a tongue emerges that emerges from either of its hands to make a 30-foot ranged grapple. If it hits, the target takes 1d6+3 points of damage (1d6+Str modifier). A successful Reflex save (DC 15), halves the damage and negates the grapple. Grappled creatures are automatically pulled 30 feet closer the next round and take 1d6+3 points of damage unless another successful Reflex save is made (DC 15), which halves the damage and also negates the grapple. Every round after this until the grapple is released, the target automatically takes an additional 1d6+Str points of bludgeon damage. A grappled target may also make a Strength check (DC 13) to pull free of the grapple. The tongue has DR 5 and releases if it takes any damage. The save and check DCs are Strength-based.

Light Sensitivity (Ex): A deep hybrid is dazzled whenever it is inside an area of bright light.

Luring Hum (Ex): In and out of water, a deep hybrid can emit a telepathic hum as a free action to draw prey. This hum affects all creatures within a 120-foot radius. Those affected hear this as if it were an actual sound. All who hear it must make a Will save (DC 13) or approach the deep hybrid as if subjected to a command spell. This is a mind-affecting ability. While humming, deep hybrids automatically fail Move Silently checks and take a -1 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skills, and saving throws. Mindless creatures and those that can see the deep hybrid are immune to this ability. Creatures that make their save are unaffected by that deep hybrid's luring hum for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Natural weapons (Ex): A deep hybrid has an improved bite attack, which deals 1d6 points of damage.

Stealth Predator (Ex): While underwater, deep hybrids gain a +4 bonus to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search and Spot checks.

Swallow Whole (Ex): If a deep hybrid has established a grapple with another creature, it can make another grapple check on its next turn in order to draw that creature into its mouth. A creature starting its turn inside a deep hybrid's mouth is automatically dealt damage equal to that of the deep hybrid's bite attack every round, until it or the deep hybrid is dead, or until it is released. On the next turn, it may swallow a creature in its mouth. A creature in its stomach can still attack it, but takes 1d6+4 acid damage each round (1d6+Con modifier). Against a target in its mouth or stomach, a deep hybrid loses its dexterity bonuses to armour class. The deep hybrid may swallow a creature up to one size smaller than itself.

Wail of the Outer Sea (Ex): At will as a free action, a deep hybrid may naturally produce a telepathic wail which affects every creature within a 30-foot radius with a -4 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skill checks and saving throws until the wailing stops. This wail also affects itself. This wailing produces no actual sound, it is a mind-affecting effect. A successful Will save (DC 9) negates. When a saving throw has been failed, the effect continues with no additional saving throw until the wailing stops or the affected character moves out of range. The save DC is Intelligence-based.

Water Dependency (Ex): A deep hybrid can survive out of water for 1 hour per two points in its Constitution score, after which it begins to drown.

[Debihuman]

For rough estimates for 3.5 just use Vorpal Tribble's CR Estimator. It's fairly accurate for non-epic critters.

Vorpal Tribble’s CR Estimator

#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.


That said, your first monster strikes me as unplayable. Why would a Medium creature have Swallow Whole? Why does it have the Celestial Subtype (and for that matter what is the Celestial Subtype?). How about you stat up a 1 HD full stat block and then we can assess CR/LA/ECL. Can't really do it without a full stat block. Does the Deep Hybrid even substitute its Racial HD for Class HD at first level. If so, make it a warrior and give it elite stats before racial adjustments. It is impossible to judge creatures on what little you've given.
Debby

[Avianmosquito]

For rough estimates for 3.5 just use Vorpal Tribble's CR Estimator. It's fairly accurate for non-epic critters.

Vorpal Tribble’s CR Estimator

#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.

Doesn't really apply to races, since it is clearly designed for individual creatures.


That said, your first monster strikes me as unplayable.

I disagree.


Why would a Medium creature have Swallow Whole?

Because this and its glow ability are based off of angler fish, which swallow prey whole.


Why does it have the Celestial Subtype (and for that matter what is the Celestial Subtype?).

I'm assuming you didn't read the lore section, which is fine. Celestial subtype is a thing specific to this setting, meaning "anything that doesn't belong on this planet", often also implying "something we are not emotionally equipped to accept the existence of". This creature has celestial subtype because of its non-sahuagin half, which is firmly in the latter category.

While the specifics are not hard-coded, a lot of this thing's abilities are universal to the celestial subtype, like its fast healing, artifact powers and damage reduction. Those are three things all celestials have, and a clue to DMs and the players that the following monster will be far more potent than its HD indicate.

Also, the main practical effect of celestial subtype is immunity to disease, but the exact rules for that haven't been codified yet, so we'll have to see how exactly that works out later.


No 1 HD critter should have DR 5/- ever, as in NOPE.

This isn't a 1 HD creature because it has class levels. It technically could have 1 HD, but it could also have 20 HD. It also definitely isn't meant for a level 1 party to stand any serious chance of defeating it, the chance of blowing saving throws at low levels is simply too high. If I was to create a full creature entry, it would probably be 5th level and thus 5 HD, with at least a 10th level version available as well.


How about you stat up a 1 HD full stat block and then we can assess CR/LA/ECL. Can't really do it without a full stat block. Does the Deep Hybrid even substitute its Racial HD for Class HD at first level. If so, make it a warrior and give it elite stats before racial adjustments. It is impossible to judge creatures on what little you've given.

Well, they aren't really built for 1 HD in much the way vampires aren't appropriate for 1 HD, but I can do this when I have time. I'll also do 5 HD and 10 HD, since those are more appropriate for actual in-game usage.

[Avianmosquito]

Here's the stats for the deep hybrid 1 HD warrior.

Size/Type: Medium monstrous humanoid (Acquatic), celestial
Hit Dice: 1d8+3 (7 HP)
Speed: 30ft (6 squares) land, 40ft (8 squares) water
Armor class: 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+3
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +4 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) and longspear +5 melee (1d8+3)
Special Attacks: Fascinating Glow, Luring Hum, Grasp of the Deep, Wail of the Outer Sea, Swallow Whole
Special Qualities: Frightful Presence, Darkvision 60ft, Light Sensitivity, Stealth Predator, Water Dependent, Fast Healing, DR 5/--
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +0, Will -2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 17, Int 4, Cha 12, Wis 6
Skills: Swim 4
Feats: Weapon Focus (Longspear)
Organization: Solitary (1), pair (2), team (1d3+2).
CR: TBD
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: This right here is what I'm looking for.

Let me know if I forgot anything. It has been ages since I wrote one of these, and I am working from memory on a cell phone. No, really, I am stopping to type these edits in the middle of the aisle at Costco. Like this one telling you to check out the lore because they make a lot more sense if you know more about them.

The 5 HD and 10 HD versions will come later when I have a day off.

[Debihuman]

Okay, now we've got a stat block that I can sink my teeth into. Even when natural attacks are a primary attack, when used with a manufactured weapon, they become the secondary attack in 3.5. Swim, climb and burrow could have vertical motion so movement isn't given in squares for them. You neglected to add Weapon Focus to longsword in standard attack line. Special Abilities should be alphabetized in the stat block. I'm fixing all that.

Deep Hybrid, Warrior 1
Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic, Celestial)
Hit Dice: 1d8+3 (7 hp)
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), Swim 40 ft.
Armor class: 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+3
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3) and bite -1 melee (1d6+1)
Special Attacks: Fascinating Glow, Grasp of the Deep, Luring Hum, Swallow Whole,Wail of the Outer Sea
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/—, darkvision 60 ft., Fast Healing, Frightful Presence, Light Sensitivity, Stealth Predator, Water Dependent,
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +0, Will -2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 17, Int 4, Cha 12, Wis 6
Skills: Swim +4
Feats: Weapon Focus (Longspear)
Organization: Solitary, pair, or team (3-6).
Challenge Rating: TBD
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: This right here is what I'm looking for.


Debby

[Avianmosquito]

Okay, now we've got a stat block that I can sink my teeth into. Even when natural attacks are a primary attack, when used with a manufactured weapon, they become the secondary attack in 3.5.

Sorry they're in the wrong order.


You neglected to add Weapon Focus to longsword in standard attack line.

I think you mean longspear, swords don't work so well underwater.


We still have no idea what any of those special abilities do. What game mechanics do these have? Even Subtypes have game mechanics. Does the Damage Reduction scale? I.E. Does it go up as the creature gains HD? That makes a difference. How much fast healing do these have and what bypasses it?

Most of this was covered in their race entry, I figured I didn't need to copy+paste all that. The DR is a flat 5 and cannot be bypassed, the fast healing is 1 hit point per round and fast healing is not regeneration so you don't need to bypass it. (And it's a good thing it's not regeneration, some celestials do have regeneration and it is *impossible* to bypass. I might write up It Yeek'Kal Thet's stat block just for fun.)


Without knowing what effects the special qualities give, it is impossible to guess what ECL/LA/CR are. You are asking for help, but aren't providing enough information to give you proper feedback.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the only things you asked for in the OP?

[Debihuman]

I was editing the text when you responded. Here is what I have so far.

EDITED: corrections made and I tried to make it as rules compliant as possible. Ranges, times etc. were missing in some cases so I had to improvise. You had no action times for many of these abilities and most should be standard actions. Its DCs are low because of the way you assigned the creature's abilities. If the PCs have better stats, they have a clear advantage. Save DCs for special abilities are always 10 + 1/2 creature's HD + relevant ability modifier.

Revisions: I'm updating the special abilities to reflect the corrections discussed below. Once the OP posts the final version, mine will be deleted to avoid any confusion.

The problem with an unbalanced creature such as this is that a lucky party can kill it easy peasy and an unlucky party will be a TPK with not much in between. A level 1 party might find this way too difficult, but it's too easy for a level 2 party for example. That's the problem with balancing this race.

The special attacks aren't all that different from its attacks with its weapons when you factor in that most are standard actions. Penalties don't really need to be named distraction penalties so for brevity's sake I cut a lot of unnecessary verbiage. Spell Resistance is never protected from Extraordinary Abilities so I took that out as well. Fascinating Glow, Luring Hum, and Wail of the Outer Seas really should be Supernatural rather than Extraordinary abilities. I'm calling shenanigans on that. Very few PC races have SR unless gained as class abilities.

I may have been a bit too aggressive with editing so see if I messed it up in places.

Deep Hybrid, Warrior 1
Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic, Celestial)
Hit Dice: 1d8+3 (7 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), Swim 40 ft.
Armor class: 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+4
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3) and bite -1 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (30 ft. with Grasp of the Deep)
Special Attacks: Fascinating Glow, Grasp of the Deep (1d6+3), Luring Hum, Swallow Whole,Wail of the Outer Sea
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/—, darkvision 60 ft., Fast Healing 1, Frightful Presence, Light Sensitivity, Stealth Predator, Water Dependent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +0, Will -2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 17, Int 4, Cha 12, Wis 6
Skills: Swim +4
Feats: Weapon Focus (Longspear)
Environment: Any water
Organization: Solitary, pair, or team (3-6).
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1

Darkvision (Ex): Deep hybrids can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and deep hybrids can function just fine with no light at all.

Fascinating Glow (Ex): As a free action, a deep hybrid can emit a bright light from its body at will, forcing all viewers to make a Will save (DC 11) at the start of each round or become fascinated for that round. This is a mind-affecting ability. This light is bright enough to trigger light sensitivity if looked directly at within 10 feet. While glowing, deep hybrids automatically fail Hide checks and are dazzled by their own light sensitivity. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Fast healing (Ex): Deep hybrids heal exceptionally quickly, restoring 1 hit point per round.

Frightful Presence (Ex): The mere sight of a deep hybrid produces fear in living creatures, forcing a Will save (DC 11) to avoid becoming shaken for 5d6 rounds. A successful save grants immunity for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Grasp of the Deep (Ex): As a full round action, a deep hybrid may use a tongue emerges that emerges from either of its hands to make a 30-foot ranged grapple. If it hits, the target takes 1d6+3 points of damage (1d6+Str modifier). A successful Reflex save (DC 13), halves the damage and negates the grapple. Grappled creatures are automatically pulled 30 feet closer the next round and take 1d6+3 points of damage unless another successful Reflex save is made (DC 13), which halves the damage and also negates the grapple. A grappled target may also make a Strength check (DC 13) to pull free of the grapple. The tongue has DR 5 and releases if it takes any damage. The save and check DCs are Strength-based.

Light Sensitivity (Ex): A deep hybrid is dazzled whenever it is inside an area of bright light.

Luring Hum (Ex): In and out of water, a deep hybrid can emit a telepathic hum as a free action to draw prey. This hum affects all creatures within a 120-foot radius. Those affected hear this as if it were an actual sound. All who hear it must make a Will save (DC 11) or approach the deep hybrid as if subjected to a command spell. This is a mind-affecting ability. While humming, deep hybrids automatically fail Move Silently checks and take a -1 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skills, and saving throws. Mindless creatures and those that can see the deep hybrid are immune to this ability. Creatures that make their save are unaffected by that deep hybrid's luring hum for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Natural weapons (Ex): A deep hybrid has an improved bite attack, which deals 1d6 points of damage.

Stealth Predator (Ex): While underwater, deep hybrids gain a +4 bonus to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search and Spot checks.

Swallow Whole (Ex): If a deep hybrid has established a grapple with another creature, it can make another grapple check on its next turn in order to draw that creature into its mouth. A creature starting its turn inside a deep hybrid's mouth is automatically dealt damage equal to that of the deep hybrid's bite attack every round, until it or the deep hybrid is dead, or until it is released. On the next turn, it may swallow a creature in its mouth. A creature in its stomach can still attack it, but takes acid damage each round equal to 1d6 plus its Constitution modifier. Against a target in its mouth or stomach, a deep hybrid loses its dexterity bonuses to armour class. The deep hybrid may swallow a creature up to one size smaller than itself.

Wail of the Outer Sea (Ex): 3/day as a standard action, A deep hybrid may naturally produce a telepathic wail which affects every creature within a 30-foot radius with a -4 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skill checks and saving throws until the wailing stops. This wailing produces no actual sound, it is a mind-affecting effect. A successful Will save (DC 7) negates. When a saving throw has been failed, the effect continues with no additional saving throw until the wailing stops or the affected character moved out of range. The save DC is Intelligence-based.

Water Dependency (Ex): A deep hybrid can survive out of water for 1 hour per two points in its Constitution score, after which it begins to drown.

Debby

[Avianmosquito]

I was editing the text when you responded. Here is what I have so far.

My apologies for the ninja post.


EDITED: corrections made and I tried to make it as rules compliant as possible. Ranges, times etc. were missing in some cases so I had to improvise. You had no action times for many of these abilities and most should be standard actions.

Actually, no. Grasp of the Deep is full-round while Fascinating Glow, Luring Hum and Wail of the Outer Seas are all free actions. Those three being free actions is why they have penalties. Otherwise they would use them constantly, and honestly the penalties may be too light. They also only work on rounds they're used, the effect instantly ends if the creature stops using them.


Its DCs are low because of the way you assigned the creature's abilities. If the PCs have better stats, they have a clear advantage. Save DCs for special abilities are always 10 + 1/2 creature's HD + relevant ability modifier.

I assigned its abilities low specifically to keep save DCs low. This way the creature is unlikely to put most or all of the party out of action. (Also, I forgot to mention luring hum doesn't work if an enemy can see you. It's based on curiosity, you hear the psychic sound as a real sound and feel compelled to investigate.)


The problem with an unbalanced creature such as this is that a lucky party can kill it easy peasy and an unlucky party will be a TPK with not much in between. A level 1 party might find this way too difficult, but it's too easy for a level 2 party for example. That's the problem with balancing this race.

It's unlikely the entire party will blow their saves, I think.


The special attacks aren't all that different from its attacks with its weapons when you factor in that most are standard actions. Penalties don't really need to be named distraction penalties so for brevity's sake I cut a lot of unnecessary verbiage. Spell Resistance is never protected from Extraordinary Abilities so I took that out as well. Fascinating Glow, Luring Hum, and Wail of the Outer Seas really should be Supernatural rather than Extraordinary abilities. I'm calling shenanigans on that. Very few PC races have SR unless gained as class abilities.

The reason I have it say the artifact abilities ignore SR is because that's the text of the actual item, where one may expect SR to apply and it doesn't. The creature entry just says "As the artifact", the way other entries may say "As the spell". Whether artifacts, and thus these powers, are magical at all is an open question and I listed them as Extraordiary Abilities to suggest they indeed are likely not to be magical.


I may have been a bit too aggressive with editing so see if I messed it up in places.

I'm at work, I'll have to respond to that tomorrow with a few edits of my own.

[Avianmosquito]

Deep Hybrid, Warrior 1
Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic, Celestial)
Hit Dice: 1d8+3 (7 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), Swim 40 ft.
Armor class: 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+4
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3) or longspear +5 melee (1d8+3) and bite -1 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (30 ft. with Grasp of the Deep)
Special Attacks: Fascinating Glow, Grasp of the Deep (1d6+3), Luring Hum, Swallow Whole,Wail of the Outer Sea
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/—, darkvision 60 ft., Fast Healing 1, Frightful Presence, Light Sensitivity, Stealth Predator, Water Dependent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +0, Will -2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 17, Int 4, Cha 12, Wis 6
Skills: Swim +4
Feats: Weapon Focus (Longspear)
Environment: Any water
Organization: Solitary, pair, or team (3-6).
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1

I am uncertain this CR and Level Adjustment will survive the edits I am about to make.


Grasp of the Deep (Ex): As a full round action, a deep hybrid may use a tongue emerges that emerges from each of its hands to make a 30-foot ranged grapple. If it hits, the target takes 1d6+3 points of damage (1d6+Str modifier). A successful Reflex save (DC 13), halves the damage and negates the grapple. Grappled creatures are automatically pulled 30 feet closer the next round and take 1d6+3 points of damage unless another successful Reflex save is made (DC 13), which halves the damage and also negates the grapple. A grappled target may also make a Strength check (DC 13) to pull free of the grapple. The tongues each have 1 hit point each and can be used as a grappling hook to stop a creature from escaping its grasp but it does no damage if used in this manner. Destroyed tongues regrow in 24 hours. The save and check DCs are Strength-based.

The first problem here is that only one hand is used, they just have the ability to do this to one more enemy once they're already grappling one. (Is there some kind of penalty for grappling with your off hand? I don't see one on the SRD, but I'm kinda hazy on grapple rules, we don't use them much.) The second problem is that the tongues aren't destroyed, they just release reflexively when injured. I'll just fix these real quick.

Grasp of the Deep (Ex): As a full round action, a deep hybrid may use a tongue emerges that emerges from either of its hands to make a 30-foot ranged grapple. If it hits, the target takes 1d6+3 points of damage (1d6+Str modifier). A successful Reflex save (DC 13), halves the damage and negates the grapple. Grappled creatures are automatically pulled 30 feet closer the next round and take 1d6+3 points of damage unless another successful Reflex save is made (DC 13), which halves the damage and also negates the grapple. A grappled target may also make a Strength check (DC 13) to pull free of the grapple. The tongue has DR 5 and releases if it takes any damage. The save and check DCs are Strength-based.


Luring Hum (Ex): In and out of water a deep hybrid can hum as a standard action to draw prey. All who hear it must make a Will save (DC 11) or approach the deep hybrid as if subjected to a command spell. This is a mind-affecting ability. While humming, deep hybrids automatically fail move silently checks and take a -1 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skills and saving throws. Mindless creatures and those that cannot hear are unaffected by this ability. Creatures that make their save are unaffected by that deep hybrid's luring hum for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

There's a couple problems with this, but they're all my fault so I'll fix them first.

Luring Hum (Ex): In and out of water a deep hybrid can emit a telepathic hum as a free action to draw prey. This hum affects all within a 120ft radius. Those affected hear this as if it were an actual sound. All who hear it must make a Will save (DC 11) or approach the deep hybrid as if subjected to a command spell. This is a mind-affecting ability. While humming, deep hybrids automatically fail move silently checks and take a -1 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skills and saving throws. Mindless creatures and those that can see the deep hybrid are immune to this ability. Creatures that make their save are unaffected by that deep hybrid's luring hum for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

The reasoning here is pretty simple. The reason deaf creatures are affected is because this hum, like the wail, is telepathic. This is It Yeek'Kal Thet's power that they've inherited, and as a celestial being she needs her powers to work in all environments, even if she's underwater or sailing the cosmos. I also added a note on range, and as they can hum and do other things at the same time it's a free action.

By the way, all celestials have telepathic voices with extraordinary powers, though what these do varies pretty heavily.


Wail of the Outer Sea (Ex): 3/day as a standard action, A deep hybrid may naturally produce a telepathic wail which affects every creature within a 30-foot radius with a -4 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skill checks and saving throws until the wailing stops. This wailing produces no actual sound, it is a mind-affecting effect. A successful Will save (DC 7) negates. When a saving throw has been failed, the effect continues with no additional saving throw until the wailing stops or the affected character moved out of range. The save DC is Intelligence-based.

Okay, so here I don't see why you changed it from a penalty system to limited daily use. Limited daily use doesn't work well with an infinite-duration ability, and I don't see why they could only cry three times a day, even telepathically. So, here's the decision. Limited daily use with a hard duration, or unlimited free action with a penalty? (Maybe a harsher penalty that the last one, like it also affecting them?) The latter fits better with their lore, is the difference in gameplay worth losing that?

[Debihuman]

Wail of the Outer Sea (Ex): 3/day as a standard action, A deep hybrid may naturally produce a telepathic wail which affects every creature within a 30-foot radius with a -4 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skill checks and saving throws until the wailing stops. This wailing produces no actual sound, it is a mind-affecting effect. A successful Will save (DC 7) negates. When a saving throw has been failed, the effect continues with no additional saving throw until the wailing stops or the affected character moved out of range. The save DC is Intelligence-based.

A character can't hum and cast spells with verbal component.

The reason for limiting this to a number of times a day is because this is kinda a waste. DC 7 means that Taking 10 will overcome this every time. EDIT [this is what I get for posting while tired. You can't Take 10 with saving throws duh! Sorry guys.]

Since it is a telepathic wail, isn't Concentration necessary? Since it has to be kept up, it isn't "at will" because it has to be continued.

Debby

[aimlessPolymath]

Hold on, you can't take 10 on saving throws.

I would guess that this is a situation in which the creature is difficult to apply LA to without LA buyoff or something similar- at low levels, it's significantly more powerful thanks to DR, stat bonuses, fast healing, frightful presence, wail of the outer sea breaking low-level combatants in two, etc. but at higher levels, those factors become less significant.

Avianmosquito, was this intended to be used with your armor changes, including armor-granting-DR? If so, the DR does not stack with that from armor, correct?

On Wail of the Sea limitations- I fall on the side of applying soft penalties rather than a hard limit. If it were a Supernatural effect, I would be more OK with it having limited daily use, since there's precedent with spell-like abilities and the like.

[Avianmosquito]

Hold on, you can't take 10 on saving throws.

Yeah, I read that and paused to have a little drinkie.


I would guess that this is a situation in which the creature is difficult to apply LA to without LA buyoff or something similar- at low levels, it's significantly more powerful thanks to DR, stat bonuses, fast healing, frightful presence, wail of the outer sea breaking low-level combatants in two, etc. but at higher levels, those factors become less significant.

Yes, but the same can be said of vampires, and they have a firm level adjustment.


Avianmosquito, was this intended to be used with your armor changes, including armor-granting-DR? If so, the DR does not stack with that from armor, correct?

While those are both part of the same setting and the DR does stack, it'd be awfully difficult for this race to wear significant armour, what with it being aquatic and all. And where would they get it, anyway? They're even more primitive than ordinary sahuagin, so they're unlikely to wear clothing and if they do it'll be of the lowest quality and is unlikely to be especially heavy. Their extreme lack of technology comes down to living in the ocean, being very stupid and having no support from their sahuagin relatives. And if you think their mother will help, she doesn't have hands and her listed intelligence score is 3. (There's a reason even the name her worshippers gave her calls her stupid.)


On Wail of the Sea limitations- I fall on the side of applying soft penalties rather than a hard limit. If it were a Supernatural effect, I would be more OK with it having limited daily use, since there's precedent with spell-like abilities and the like.

I'm of a mind with you on this one. But the exact penalties may need some reworking, that I can say.

[Debihuman]

Sorry brain fart on the Take 10 on Saving Throws. Still a 7 is pretty low even at low level.

So as to not step on any toes, I'm going to delete the stat blocks from my posts once the first post has been edited fully to show the most recent corrections. Feel free to copy and paste if you like. Just let me know when I should remove the text in my response (no need to have my "corrections" upstaging your critter).

Debby

[Avianmosquito]

Sorry brain fart on the Take 10 on Saving Throws. Still a 7 is pretty low even at low level.

Yes, the point was it has a low save DC, but it can keep doing it so you'll fail it eventually. Once you do, it gives a big hit to saves so it's likely to chain that failure into another failure. It basically turns the fight into a race to kill it before the party starts blowing saves. While at 1 HD this isn't hard at all as you may well kill it in one shot, at the 5 HD I imagined it at the thing may take a couple rounds to die.

Celestials are all supposed to be like this, they get harder the longer the fight goes on, forcing the party to kill them quickly. In groups, parties have to prioritize and focus fire. The mad scramble to kill them is a radical change of pace compared to most encounters.


So as to not step on any toes, I'm going to delete the stat blocks from my posts once the first post has been edited fully to show the most recent corrections. Feel free to copy and paste if you like. Just let me know when I should remove the text in my response (no need to have my "corrections" upstaging your critter).

Debby

There's no need to do that.

Next creature should go up later today. What do you two think, It Yeek'Kal Thet or a creature that's actually intended to be balanced?

[Avianmosquito]

Today, I'll cover It Yeek'Kal Thet. I want to emphasize before I go into these stats that this creature is a great old one. If this thing's CR is under 20, it is going to need a very good explanation. Also, fair warning, this creature has bizarre anatomy and blue and orange morality. This is also to be expected in a great old one, but it's still important to remember.

It Yeek'Kal Thet:
Colossal Aberration (Aquatic), Celestial (Great Old One)
Hit dice: 40d8+800 (980 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30ft. (6 squares), 60ft swim
Armor Class: 15 (-8 colossal size, +5 dexterity, +8 Natural), touch 7, flat-footed 10
Base attack/grapple: +30/61
Attack: Tentacle +37 melee (1d10+15), Claw +37 melee (1d10+15), Slam +37 melee (1d10+15)
Full attack: 4 tentacles +37 melee (1d10+15) or 8 slams +37 melee (1d10+15) or 4 claws +37 melee (1d10+15)*
Space/Reach: 30ft/30ft (60ft tentacle)
Special attacks: Fascinating Glow, Great Grasp of the Deep, Luring Hum, Improved Grab, Constrict, Swallow Whole, Great Wail of the Outer Sea, Luminescent Ink, Jet
Special qualities: Damage Reduction 25/--, Energy Resistance 25, Spell Resistance 25, Darkvision 120ft, Blindsense 30ft, Regeneration 10, That Which Can Eternal Lie, Despairing Presence, Death May Die, Panacaea, Sail of the Cosmos
Saves: Fort +35, Ref +20, Will +22
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 20, Con 50, Int 3, Cha 30, Wis 10
Skills: Listen +10, Spot +10, Search +10, Swim +10
Feats: Power attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved trip, Endurance, Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Natural Amour (4)
Environment: Oceanic
Organization: Unique individual plus 10d6 deep hybrids (1HD babies)
Challenge rating: I'm guessing this will be a large number. (Also, please don't count the babies. They are separate.)
Advancement: N/A
Level Adjustment: --

Darkvision (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet can see in the dark up to 120 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and she can function just fine with no light at all.

Blindsense (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 30 feet. Opponents she can’t actually see still have total concealment against her.

Fascinating Glow (Ex): As a free action, a It Yeek'Kal Thet can emit a bright light from her body at will, forcing all viewers to make a Will save (DC 40) at the start of each round or become fascinated for that round. This is a mind-affecting ability. This light is bright enough to dazzle enemies if looked directly at up to 30ft away and trigger light sensitivity within 120 feet. While glowing, she fails all hide checks. A successful save grants immunity for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Regeneration (Ex): No form of attack deals lethal damage to It Yeek'Kal Thet. She regenerates even if she fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect.** If she fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points (or 980 hp). Permanent or incurable wounds are treated as ordinary wounds. If she loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1 hour (the detached piece dies and decays normally).

That Which Can Eternal Lie (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet cannot be slain, but reaching a total amount of non-lethal damage equal to twice her maximum hit points (1960hp) will force her into hibernation. While hibernating, her damage reduction, energy resistance, natural armor and her spell resistance increase to 50, but she only regenerates 10 hit points per day and will not awaken until her health recovers to full.

Despairing Presence (Ex): The mere sight of It Yeek'Kal Thet produces despair in living creatures, forcing a Will save (DC 40) to avoid being inflicted with Crushing Despair, as the spell, for 24 hours. A successful save grants immunity for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based. This is a mind-affecting ability.

Suicidal Despair (Ex): Any creature inflicted with Crushing Despair from It Yeek'Kal Thet's Despairing Presence is also subject to the Suicidal Despair effect. This performs as a disease, but cannot be cured by Remove Disease, Remove Curse or any similar effect. Initially this inflicts 1d3 permanent Charisma damage and will be negated and cured by a DC 40 will save. If this save is failed, it will inflict 1d3 temporary Charisma damage daily, with a DC 40 will save negating the damage and allowing a second save that, if succeeded, will cure the victim. The permanent damage cannot be restored until Suicidal Despair is cured. Suicidal Despair will not lower Charisma below 1. The save DC is charisma-based.

Great Grasp of the Deep (Ex): As a full round action, a It Yeek'Kal Thet may use a tongue that emerges from her toothless maw to make a 120-foot ranged grapple. If it hits, the target takes 2d6+15 points of damage (2d6+Str modifier). A successful Reflex save (DC 61), halves the damage and negates the grapple. Grappled creatures are automatically pulled into her mouth and take 2d6+15 points of damage unless another successful Reflex save is made (DC 61), which halves the damage and also negates the grapple. A grappled target may also make a Strength check (DC 61) to pull free of the grapple. The tongue has DR 25 and releases if it takes any damage. The save and check DCs are Strength-based.

Improved Grab (Ex): If It Yeek'Kal Thet hits with her claws she can initial a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Improved grab will work on any creature huge or smaller if they are hit by a single claw, but gargantuan creatures must be hit by at least two claws and colossal creatures must be hit by all four.

Constrict (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet may deal bludgeon damage any creature she is currently grappling with her claws, at 1d10+15 per claw.

Luring Hum (Ex): In and out of water, It Yeek'Kal Thet can emit a telepathic hum as a free action to draw prey. This hum affects all creatures within a 300-foot radius. Those affected hear this as if it were an actual sound. All who hear it must make a Will save (DC 40) or approach her as if subjected to a command spell. This is a mind-affecting ability. While humming, she automatically fails Move Silently checks and take a -2 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skills, and saving throws. Mindless creatures and those that can see her are immune to this ability. Creatures that make their save are unaffected by It Yeek'Kal Thet's luring hum for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Luminescent Ink (Ex): With a bright flash of light, It Yeek'Kal Thet may fill the water with a glowing ink that fills a 60ft radius and provides complete concealment. This ink is bright enough to dazzle enemies that look directly at it within 10ft and trigger light sensitivity within 60ft. Enemies caught directly in the cloud at the time of its release are blinded for one minute unless they make a reflex save with a DC of 40.

Jet (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet may make a full-round charge with a distance of 240ft and a damage of 1d10+15. She may only do this while underwater, and must be completely submerged when she initiates the charge.

Swallow Whole (Ex): If It Yeek'Kal Thet has established a grapple with another creature, it can make another grapple check on its next turn in order to draw that creature into its mouth. A creature starting its turn inside her mouth is unharmed. On the next turn, she may swallow a creature in her mouth. A creature in her stomach can still attack her, but she drains 1d6 constitution every hyour until their constitution reaches 1, sustaining herself and healing ability damage by the amount of constitution her victim loses. This drain is permanent and can only be healed by a restoration spell, creatures immune to permanent ability drain take normal constitution damage. Against a target in her mouth or stomach, she loses her dexterity and natural armor bonuses to armour class. She may swallow any creature up to her own size. She may regurgitate prey at will, and will when she has no more need of them.

Death May Die (Ex): Any creature in It Yeek'Kal Thet's stomach is resurrected as if subject to "Raise Dead"***, except with no loss of level or constitution. This process takes 48 hours. This effect is subject to the same restrictions as Raise Dead, and also does not work on creatures that were killed by a failed save against a coup de grace or massive damage, or any that have been allowed to decompose for more than one day. Once restored to life, they are regurgitated by It Yeek'Kal Thet. They will have their constitution drained to 1 and It Yeek'Kal Thet will be fed but not healed.

Panacaea (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet swallows a character she can break any curses, remove any diseases, restore any damaged ability scores, regenerate any lost limbs and heal hit points to full. This process takes 24 hours. A dead character must be resurrected first. It Yeek'Kal Thet loses 1 hit point for every hit point she heals, as well as 10 hit points for every ability point restored, 20 hit points for every disease cured or curse broken (mummy rot is both a disease and a curse and consumes 40 of It Yeek'Kal Thet's hit points) and 40 for every lost limb regenerated. She does not do this for free, and only accepts food and mates in trade.****

Great Wail of the Outer Sea (Ex): At will as a free action, It Yeek'Kal Thet may naturally produce a telepathic wail which affects every creature within a 120-foot radius with a -4 penalty to attack, Armor Class, skill checks and saving throws until the wailing stops. This wail also affects herself. This wailing produces no actual sound, it is a mind-affecting effect. A successful Will save (DC 26) negates. When a saving throw has been failed, the effect continues with no additional saving throw until the wailing stops or the affected character moves out of range. The save DC is Intelligence-based.

Sail of the Cosmos (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet has wings and physics-defying levitation. This allows her to fly at 120ft/round with poor maneuverability, and to levitate at will. Flying is counted as running for the purposes of exhaustion, levitation at up to 30ft/round counts as a hustle.

Father's Call (Ex): It Yeek'Kal Thet is telepathically alerted when one of her children is born, and can call them telepathically to her. There is no apparent limit to this effect's range, and it both communicates her general location and commands her child (as the spell) to come to her. This can be resisted with a will save, DC 40, charisma-based. If the infant successfully resists, the effect immediately terminates. If the infant does not resist, its location will be sent back to her until the effect terminates so she can go to them. This effect lasts forty days.

*I'm working under the assumption that each attack is 5 lower than the last here, but I don't remember if that's actually a rule or not. I also don't remember how it interacts with dual wielding.

**There are no death effects in Aelsif anyway.

***This also doesn't exist in Aelsif, which is why this feature is a big deal. You normally CAN'T bring people back from the dead, but all of the Great Old Ones can raise the dead by eating them. This bizarre mechanism, which is totally not inspired by Minazuki from Bleach, gives a good reason to seek out the great old ones, despite the negative impact such beings will have upon your mental health.

****This is also an exploitable mechanic, but all of these services are available from appropriate-level cleric spells, so while it makes sense for NPCs to use this it doesn't make much sense for players to use it.

Combat:
It Yeek'Kal Thet has no interest in killing, but does it as required to achieve her goals. These goals are simple: Eat and reproduce. She lacks teeth and swallows prey whole, draining them to sustain herself. If she finds an acceptable female and is not hungry, she will swallow them and impregnate them instead of draining them. Either way, her only goal is to eat as many creatures as possible and she regurgitates them when she doesn't need them anymore. She uses her special abilities to incapacitate prey and mates, and kills any that still manage to resist, bringing them back to life when she's done. Prey that is killed too thoroughly for her to bring back is of no use to her as food or as a mate, so she tends to limit the force she uses to whatever is needed to accomplish her goals. Before you think too hard, it is worth remembering the ridiculousness of judging a cosmic horror with human morals.

There is one context, however, in which It Yeek'Kal Thet kills without eating. If she calls her newborn and they can't come to her, she will go and get them and very thoroughly destroy anybody who tries to stop her. She will also annihilate anyone who harms one of the babies under her care, who never leave her side even until they grow into children.


It Yeek'Kal Thet is a colossal oceanic great old one, with a long blubbery whale-like body, eight squid-like arms where all its flippers and fins should be and four tentacles (if you don't know the difference consult Google) where one may expect a tail and a large squid-like head fin. Underneath this fin is an unnvervingly humanoid face with an enormous toothless maw, from which emerge four clawed limbs and an extremely long prehensile tongue. Green eyes line the rim of her head fin, and two gigantic eyes stare from her face. Her body is a green-black with a dark blue underside, lined with 40 small, retractable nipples for feeding the swarm of infant deep hybrids that constantly accompany her. While a hermaphrodite in actuality her only external genitalia are female and her male reproductive organs are in her digestive tract. This is the reason she is usually referred to with female terminology. (Note: This bizarre reproductive anatomy is universal amongst great ones and great old ones. If you hadn't figured out they were aliens already, you should have gotten it about that point.)

She resides in the oceans of Aelsif's southern hemisphere. As a great old one she is a unique, immortal celestial of immense power. She is the only free great old one on Aelsif, the others are all sealed or caged in some manner. Like all of her kind she cannot be truly killed, and has the ability to raise the recently (and relatively intact) dead by swallowing them.

She has few ambitions and very simple, easily understood motives, fitting as she is by all accounts the least intelligent of the four great old ones. Her lack of ambition is likely also why she is believed a myth in the civilized world. She is worshipped, mostly out of fear, by the sahuagin tribes in the shallows and on the islands, who feed her their virgin daughters to receive her healing services and dissuade her from eating her people for sustenance. She impregnates these young sahuagin to create deep hybrids, who help her hunt for prey and additional mates, which are the only things she really has any interest in. (Note: I actually started conceptualizing It Yeek'Kal Thet trying to think of a context in which virgin sacrifices actually made some sort of practical sense. Of course, it still doesn't make practical sense and results in some ridiculous policies that don't work, but I tried.)

Also, I will be quite shocked if anybody can think of a way to defeat this thing without resorting to sailing a galleon in and painting her a nice shade of BLAM. Actually, that probably won't even work, her mind-affecting abilities are going to wreak havoc with the sailors. Actually, if you can find a way to defeat her at all, I'll be surprised. Let's leave it at that.

Next time, Cosmic Hybrids or Sailors of the Outer sea. Cast your votes now!

[Debihuman]

I'd peg this as CR 25 as it is tougher than the tarrasque, but it is too similar to it to make it really interesting. I might even up the CR since it has saves that are DC 40. I am never a fan of forcing a PC to commit suicide. It's not a good design, and not appropriate for most campaigns.

[Avianmosquito]

I'd peg this as CR 25 as it is tougher than the tarrasque, but it is too similar to it to make it really interesting.

The tarrasque is more aggressive, can't have its encounters resolved without killing it, can be killed in the first place, can't fly, stays out of the ocean, has far fewer special attacks, less reach, less damage reduction, more regeneration and doesn't stay down as long after a KO.

It also doesn't have a swarm of offspring around it, and if you lock it up you won't have an army of glowing fish-folk kicking down your door. It also packs an exploitable healing mechanic and can't raise the dead.

Don't get me wrong, I see the comparison. But she's very different and exists in a setting with no tarrasque. You may as well say she's a lot like Cthulhu, she's got about as much in common.


I might even up the CR since it has saves that are DC 40.

Well, it is 10+1/2HD+Cha modifier.


I am never a fan of forcing a PC to commit suicide. It's not a good design, and not appropriate for most campaigns.

And if I told you any creature with dominate could do it, with fewer saves, less time and no ability to stall with restoration?

Look, it was this or let them go catatonic when their charisma fell to 0, and I thought this made more sense for an insanity effect directly related to despair.

[Debihuman]

And if I told you any creature with dominate could do it, with fewer saves, less time and no ability to stall with restoration?

Look, it was this or let them go catatonic when their charisma fell to 0, and I thought this made more sense for an insanity effect directly related to despair.

You would be wrong. Dominate usually acts like the dominate person spell. See vampire for example. Also, how do you actually cure Suicidal Despair since you have it noted that the permanent damage cannot be cured until the Suicidal Despair is cured?

Catalonia is an insanity and curable.

Debby

[Avianmosquito]

You would be wrong. Dominate usually acts like the dominate person spell. See vampire for example.

You can make somebody commit suicide with dominate person. You just need a little creativity.


Also, how do you actually cure Suicidal Despair

Two saves in a row, like any disease.


since you have it noted that the permanent damage cannot be cured until the Suicidal Despair is cured?

Only the initial damage is permanent. Unless your charisma is so low it brings ypu to one instantly you call stall indefinitely.


Catalonia is an insanity and curable.

Debby

Sourcebook, please. I'm looking at the SRD and don't see it.