Question on Twin Spell and Concentration

[BladedWizard]

Hi again,

My DM doesn't like the fact that a sorcerer can twin a spell like haste for example and have it affect two PC with one concentration. Is it written somewhere in the PHB that a sorcerer can indeed perform such feat? Or is it left to the DM interpretation?

I would see why someone wouldn't want to play a sorcerer if the DM does not allow this kind of feat.

Thanks,
BW

[Blue Wizrobe]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1900-D-D-5th-Edition-Sage-Advice-from-Designers-Mearls-Crawford#.WKcSbVUrLIU

The long and short of it is that your interpretation is, at least as far as the devs are concerned, is correct. You aren't casting and maintaining 2 haste spells - you are casting and concentrating on 1 haste spell that affects 2 targets. In other words, one failed Concentration check ends the effect for both of you. Now, if your DM decides he wants to house rule differently, that's a different banana.

[Rysto]

If he rules that you can't Twin a concentration spell, I'd retire the Sorcerer immediately. Sorcerers don't get much to play with and nerfing such an important part of their repertoire would probably reduce their power to unfun levels.

I'd also concern this a bit of a warning flag about the DM. If he develops a pattern of taking PC's best abilities away from them it's not going to be a fun game.

[Ursus the Grim]

The DM doesn't like Twin Haste? RAI is that it works. Its one spell with two targets. Remember that if the caster loses concentration, its going to hurt (both targets lose a turn). Sorc also has to burn points to do it.

Its strong, but without metamagic, the sorcerer is worse than the wizard for its job. And as far as game-breaking goes, there are more egregious offenses than 'buffing my allies'. Being a team player shouldn't be punished by DM fiat.

[RickAllison]

The DM doesn't like Twin Haste? RAI is that it works. Its one spell with two targets. Remember that if the caster loses concentration, its going to hurt (both targets lose a turn). Sorc also has to burn points to do it.

Its strong, but without metamagic, the sorcerer is worse than the wizard for its job. And as far as game-breaking goes, there are more egregious offenses than 'buffing my allies'. Being a team player shouldn't be punished by DM fiat.

It's not just RAI, it is RAW. Twinning Haste is no different than casting Hold Person out of the same level slot and thus targeting more than one person. It explicitly says it is the same spell targeting multiple people.

For the OP, I would present that text along with all the spells that similarly target multiple people with the same spell and have concentration. That is at least Animal Shapes, Animate Objects, Bane, Bless, Calm Emotions, Confusion, and Compulsion to name a few. None of those should be able to actually target more than one person if Twinned Haste cannot as each of those is the same spell targeting multiple creatures.

[BladedWizard]

Thank you all for your feedback. I will talk to my DM about this.

[Vogonjeltz]

Hi again,

My DM doesn't like the fact that a sorcerer can twin a spell like haste for example and have it affect two PC with one concentration. Is it written somewhere in the PHB that a sorcerer can indeed perform such feat? Or is it left to the DM interpretation?

I would see why someone would play a sorcerer if the DM does not allow this kind of feat.

Thanks,
BW

It's written on page 102. "When you cast a spell...to target a second creature in range"; it's not casting two spells, just one with two targets. Bearing in mind that when Haste ends the targets would basically lose their turns, so there's a risk there.

Other (metamagic) reasons to play a Sorcerer include Extended Spell and Subtle Spell. The former basically doubles your spell efficiency (it's like getting an extra cast of concentration spell) and the latter gets you out of tricky situations.

[coredump]

It works just like Bless, multiple targets, one spell, one concentration.