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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Winter's Edge (A new Tome of Battle Discipline, rate and critique please?)



sage20500
2017-02-22, 01:16 AM
So this is my first homebrew attempt for making an interesting discipline for Tome of Battle that can be used by both players and the DM to have fun with. I haven't fully worked out the history, background or descriptions of the discipline or the maneuvers, but here is the mechanics I've come up with. I would greatly appreciate any issues you might find in regards to syntax so I can get them corrected.

Basic concept though of the discipline is that a fey monk of the Winter Court made this discipline as a way of being able to channel the magics of the fey into a fighting style to mess with his opponents. Every maneuver was designed to leave some form of a debuff against the opponent, and in some ways, allow players or dm's ways to use some of the more fun or interesting spells from earlier in the game that are just not usable past CL 4 or 5.

For right now, this discipline is designed to replace Swordsage and Warblades access to the Diamond School. I've wanted to find a way to give crusader's access to the discipline, but the group that I'm currently play testing this with have made arguments that Unseelie Fey crusaders are not really a thing to where this would happen. The discipline weapons are Unarmed Strike, Natural Weapons, Daggers, Short Swords, and Rapiers. The class skill is Knowledge: Nature. On the whole, every maneuver and stance of this discipline counts as either a Supernatural or Spell Like ability.

Strikes
Lesser Winter’s Bite (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target=1 Creature- Make a melee attack, if the attack hits, deal an additional +1d6 Cold Damage. The target then makes a Will Save of 11 + the primary initiator attribute modifier, if they fail the target takes a -2 penalty to Strength or Dexterity for the next minute. Save negates.

Disorienting Strike (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature- Make a single melee attack, on a hit deal damage as normal and the target takes a -2 penalty to all D20 rolls for 1 round.

Counter
Obscuring Snow (SU)- Immediate Action, Range = Melee, Trigger = 1 Attack- The initiator may choose 1 melee attack made against them that would hit them and give the attack a -4 to hit.

Stance
Winter’s Encroachment- Stance, Range = Personal, Swift Action, All adjacent squares are covered in natural ice (Frostburn p12, Snowfields), while in this stance, initiator ignores difficult terrain caused by snow and ice.

Strikes
Pixies Strike (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature- Make a melee attack, if the attack hits, deal damage as normal. The target then must make a Fortitude save of 12 + primary initiator attribute modifier, if they fail, they are affected by the sleep spell for 1d4 rounds regardless of how ever many hit dice they possess. Save negates.

Winter’s Decay (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature-, Make a melee attack, on a hit, deal damage as normal. The target then must make a Fortitude save of 12 + primary initiator attribute modifier. If they fail, roll a D8, the target contracts that disease with no incubation period, and suffers the initial effects immediately. 1. Blinding Sickness, 2. Cackle Fever, 3. Filth Fever, 4. Mindfire, 5. Red Ache, 6. Shakes, 7. Slimy Doom, 8. Initiator’s choice. Save negates.

Touch of the Hoarfroster (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature-, Make a melee attack, on a hit, deal an additional 1d6 + primary initiator attribute modifier Cold Damage. The target then makes a Fortitude Save of 12 + primary initiator attribute modifier or becomes Fatigued. If the creature takes no cold damage they do not roll the Fortitude Save. Save negates.

Strikes
Winter’s Bite (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature-, Make a melee attack, on a hit, deal an additional 3d6 Cold Damage. The target then makes a Will save of 13 + primary initiator attribute modifier or else they suffer a curse that inflicts a -4 penalty to either Strength or Dexterity. This curse may be removed by any kind of magical healing. Save negates.

Glimpse of the Fey Wilds (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature, Make a melee attack, if this attack hits, deal damage as normal. The target then makes a will save of DC 13 + primary initiator attribute modifier or else they are removed from play for 1 round. On their next turn, they make take their turn as normal, except they may not take a full round action. Save negates.

Pixie Prank (SP)- Standard Action, Range= Melee, Target = 1 Creature, Make a melee attack, if the attack hits, deal damage as normal. The target then makes a will save of DC 13 + primary initiator attribute modifier or else they are affected by the reduce person spell for 1d4 + 1 rounds regardless of creature type. Save negates.

Boost
Glaistigs Fang (SU)- Swift Action, Range = Melee, =Target = Next Attack,- On your next attack, if you hit, in addition to the normal effects of the attack the target makes a Fortitude of DC 13 + primary initiator attribute modifier, or else take 2 points of Constitution Drain. Save negates.

Stance
Winter’s Quickening- Stance, Range = Personal, Swift Action,- Creature’s adjacent to you gain cold vulnerability. In addition, your melee attacks deal piercing damage in addition to their normal damage typing.

Strike
Sidhe Madness (SP)- Standard Action, Range= Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a melee attack, if the attack hits, deal damage as normal and the target makes a Will save with a DC of 14 + primary initiator attribute modifier, or else they become confused for 1d4 rounds. Save negates.

Bajang’s Claws (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a melee attack, if the attack hits, deal damage as normal. The target then makes a Fortitude save with a DC of 14 + primary initiator attribute modifier, or else they take 1d6 Strength damage. Save negates.

Strike of the Hoarfroster (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a melee attacks, if the attack hits, deal an additional 3d6 + primary initiator attribute modifier Cold Damage. The target then makes a Fortitude save of a DC 14 + primary initiator attribute modifier, or else they become exhausted. Save Negates. If the creature takes no cold damage, they do not roll a save.

Strike

Greater Winter’s Bite (SU)- Standard Action, Range =Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack, if it hits; deal 5d6 extra cold damage, and the target makes a Will Save of DC 15 + primary initiator attribute modifier, or else they are cursed with a –6 penalty to either Strength or Dexterity. This curse can only be removed by remove curse, break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, or the wish spell. Save Negates.

Banish to the Feywilds (SU)- Standard Action, Range=Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack. If it hits, deal damage as normal; and the target must make a Will Save of DC 15 + primary initiator attribute modifier. On a failed save they are removed from play for 1d4 rounds. When they return they are staggered for 1 round. Save Negates.

Redcaps Bloodletting (SU) – Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack. If you hit, deal an extra 2d6 Cold Damage, and the Initiator gains temporary Hit Points equal to the total damage dealt with this attack. These temporary hit points disappear after 1 hour has passed.

Boost
Glaistigs Bite (SU)- Swift Action, Range=Personal, Target=Self,- On your next melee attack, in addition to it’s normal effect, the target must also make a Fortitude Save of DC 15 + primary initiator attribute modifier. On a failed save they take 4 points of Constitution Drain. Save Negates.

Strikes

Sidhe’s Shackles (SP)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target= 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack. If it hits, it deals damage as normal. The target then makes a Will Save of DC 16 + primary initiator attribute modifier, or else they are cursed with the Slow Spell. This effect will last until removed by Break Enchantment, Limited Wish, Miracle, or Wish. Save Negates.

Rime-Spirit’s Flurry (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack. If it hits the attack deals and additional 2d6 + Initiator Level Cold Damage. The target then makes a Reflex Save of DC 16 + primary initiator attribute modifier. On a failed save they are dazed for 1d4 rounds. Save Negates.

Stance
Winter’s Herald- Swift Action, Range = Personal, Target = Self,- While in this stance, centered on the initiator is a 10ft aura of cold. At the start of your turn any creature in the aura takes 1d12 Cold Damage. The Initiator also gains Resist 15 Cold while maintaining this stance.

Strikes

Sidhe’s Scorn (SP)- Standard Action, Range=Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack. If it hits, deal damage as normal. The creature then must make a Fortitude Save of DC 17 + primary initiator attribute modifier. On a failed save they are affected by the Baleful Polymorph spell. Save Negates

Whispers of the Fey (SU)- Standard Action, Range= Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack. If it hits, deal damage as normal. If the target has an Intelligence score of 3 or greater, it must make a Will Save of DC 17 + primary initiator attribute modifier. On a failed save for the next 1d4+1 rounds the target has a 25% chance of action normally on it’s turn, otherwise it takes no action. Save Negates.

Strikes
Banshrae’s Touch (SU)- Standard Action, Range= Melee, Target = 1 Creature,- Make a single melee attack. If it hits, deal an extra 5d6 Cold Damage, and then the target must make a Will Save of DC 18+ primary initiator attribute modifier or suffer the Curse of the Banshrae. On a failure, choose either Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom. Reduce that ability score to 1. This curse can only be removed by the Break Enchantment, Limited Wish, Miracle, or Wish spells. Save negates.

Nereid’s Touch (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature, - Make a melee touch attack. On a hit, the target must make a DC 18 + primary initiator attribute modifier Fortitude save. On a failed save they begin to drown.

Stance
Winter’s Reckoning- Swift Action, Range=Personal, Target = Self,- While maintaining this stance, any creature adjacent to the Initiator takes a penalty to saves equal to the Initiators primary attribute modifier. This Penalty is a Morale Effect.

Strike
Siabrie’s Rage (SU)- Standard Action, Range = Melee, Target = 1 Creature or Object,- Make a melee touch attack. If you hit, the target must roll a Fortitude Save of DC 19 + primary initiator attribute modifier. On a failure the target’s body is reduced into non magical sand. On a save, the target takes 10d10 points of of damage. This doesn’t affect the creature’s equipment.

ShiningStarling
2017-02-22, 05:30 PM
First thing's first, couple small criticisms.

It would make more sense to replace Desert Wind than Diamond Mind (seeing as that would keep initiators from having clashing elemental themes).

Your discipline has 25 Maneuvers, 76% (19) of which are strikes, and only one is a counter and two are boosts, three stances seems ok though. I would highly recommend tweaking some of the strikes to be Boosts or Counters (the trickster ones I feel would fit Counters very well).

Disorienting Strike (1st) does not state what kind of save is needed to negate.

You don't need to put "11 + the primary initiator attribute modifier" for each save, that's the calculation in the rules already, you just have to put the kind of save (Fort, Ref, Will).

Nereid's Touch doesn't really fit with the theme... none of the rest of the discipline includes any water mechanics, and starting to drown can be negated on their turn by taking a breath (iirc, away from books at the moment so I would have to look at that closer). Plus, Nereids are not Unseelie iirc.

Other than the above, I love the idea of more debuffs on maneuvers, and I think this is cool (pun absolutely intended) and would consider using it were I to play an initiator :smallsmile:

sage20500
2017-02-22, 08:52 PM
First thing's first, couple small criticisms.

It would make more sense to replace Desert Wind than Diamond Mind (seeing as that would keep initiators from having clashing elemental themes).

Your discipline has 25 Maneuvers, 76% (19) of which are strikes, and only one is a counter and two are boosts, three stances seems ok though. I would highly recommend tweaking some of the strikes to be Boosts or Counters (the trickster ones I feel would fit Counters very well).

Disorienting Strike (1st) does not state what kind of save is needed to negate.

You don't need to put "11 + the primary initiator attribute modifier" for each save, that's the calculation in the rules already, you just have to put the kind of save (Fort, Ref, Will).

Nereid's Touch doesn't really fit with the theme... none of the rest of the discipline includes any water mechanics, and starting to drown can be negated on their turn by taking a breath (iirc, away from books at the moment so I would have to look at that closer). Plus, Nereids are not Unseelie iirc.

Other than the above, I love the idea of more debuffs on maneuvers, and I think this is cool (pun absolutely intended) and would consider using it were I to play an initiator :smallsmile:

Just saw the issue with Disorienting Strike, that wasn't actually supposed to be a save, I think I must have added the save negates onto to when I went back and put that line in for all the powers that had saves.

I had it doing diamond mind instead of desert wind because I wanted more than 1 initiator to be able to gain access to the Discipline, and on a power scale ranking, Diamond Mind is considered to be one of the top 3 things you should be taking while Desert Wind is 2nd to last (just barely above stone dragon). Only reason I'm not having it replace stone dragon so that all 3 Initiators can gain access to it is because then any group that does homebrew would do it in a heart beat since this discipline would be seen as strictly superior in every single way; I think this could also apply to Desert Wind because fire resist is considered to be so common that having the unique effects of that can applied to so many things would make it strictly superior. I felt balance wise that the current set up for gaining access to it served to be a good trade of potential power in return for more utility.

To be fair on Nereid's touch, about 1/4th to a 1/3rd of the maneuvers I don't think actually belong strictly to the Unseelie Fey, but the idea was going to be that the Original master of the discipline wanted to emulate abilities of the fey in general, and it just happened that a majority of them belonged to Unseelie Fey creatures. For the drowning part, to my understanding the Nereid's actual ability says the same thing that the maneuver does, and from how my dm explained it to me was that if a creature begins to drown its because their lungs have filled with a fluid of some kind and must then do something to expel the fluid from their lungs. If that's not how that actually works then I'll try to find a different fey ability to try and turn into an 8th level maneuver... it just happened that most of the interesting ones I had already used.

I guess when it comes to distribution of strikes, boosts, and counters, I mostly was using styles like Stone Dragon and Shadow Hand as the basis for distribution, with Stone Dragon having no counters or boosts, and shadow hand having only 4-6 boosts maximum I believe. Given how many status elements the discipline can pump out, I felt like having more of them being a thing that could be tacked onto another strike or being able to be done when it was not your turn could drastically drive up the power curve. Don't give me wrong, Turning Sidhe Scorn into a counter I feel like would be absolutely hilarious, but if I did there is no way I could justify it being able to actually remain potentially permanent like it currently is, instead you'd only be able to baleful polymorph what ever triggered the counter for at most a few rounds. I think i might go back and turn Scorn into a counter, and just have it be in response to being targeted by a melee attack, they must make the Forts Save as if they had been targeted by Baleful Polymorph, with the dcing being what it should be and then they only are only baleful polymorphed for 1d4 rounds.
Glimpse of the Feywilds I could turn into a counter called Trip to the Feywilds, and that would probably be the same thing, in response to being targeted by a melee attack the Initiator may make a trip attempt that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity, and if they succeed on the trip attempt the effect from the original strike happens. This way if they succeed on the save they're still tripped. Banish to the Fey Wilds I think I'll still keep as a strike just because I don't want to depower the current effect it has to turn it into a counter.

sage20500
2019-05-11, 03:17 PM
First thing's first, couple small criticisms.

It would make more sense to replace Desert Wind than Diamond Mind (seeing as that would keep initiators from having clashing elemental themes).

Your discipline has 25 Maneuvers, 76% (19) of which are strikes, and only one is a counter and two are boosts, three stances seems ok though. I would highly recommend tweaking some of the strikes to be Boosts or Counters (the trickster ones I feel would fit Counters very well).

Disorienting Strike (1st) does not state what kind of save is needed to negate.

You don't need to put "11 + the primary initiator attribute modifier" for each save, that's the calculation in the rules already, you just have to put the kind of save (Fort, Ref, Will).

Nereid's Touch doesn't really fit with the theme... none of the rest of the discipline includes any water mechanics, and starting to drown can be negated on their turn by taking a breath (iirc, away from books at the moment so I would have to look at that closer). Plus, Nereids are not Unseelie iirc.

Other than the above, I love the idea of more debuffs on maneuvers, and I think this is cool (pun absolutely intended) and would consider using it were I to play an initiator :smallsmile:

So it's been awhile since your initial critique but if your still interested in ever trying this out I've done a bit more work on the discipline since the initial post as well as gotten it set up in google docs so that anyone who wants to help contribute to making this discipline more interesting/fun to use is welcome to edit and make changes.

I've went ahead and turned the Pixie's prank line into a boost after talking with a friend about how that could affect things balance wise; and I also added in an upgraded version of Pixie's prank at later initiator levels so that there was a bit more diversity for things that showed up later on. Also edited the language to the ability so now instead of it behaving like the reduce person spell it instead behaves more in line with the expansion/reduction psionic abilties (Pretty much its just reduce things by a size category for everything that it would entail instead of treating it like the reduce person spell. Upgraded version gets to reduce a target by 2 size categories)

Also introduced a lower level version of the baleful polymorph punch to come into play at 5th level maneuvers so that initiators could also have some fun using the sheep punch at the same time casters could use it; I just gave it a short duration to keep it in line with the ideas that Tome of Battle/Path of War seemed to have on maneuvers that mimicked spells

Also dropped Nerids touch and instead changed it to mimic another ability that Siabrie have because I will maintain that Siabrie are amazingly designed high level fey and they absolutely scare the crap out of me with the though of ever actually encountering one in game.

Aside from that if anyone who reads this has any new critiques or ideas on power scale/level and if maneuvers need to be shuffled around please let me know!


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1izsYEfXS_MU38WAgWGXx77kkxJTphZV5uCRMQQjIE2M/edit?usp=sharing