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View Full Version : Deals with the God of Trickery (my players stay out!)



Meat Shield
2007-07-24, 11:10 AM
If you are in the Bellevue TN gaming group I run, get out now!!!!!!!
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OK, here we go. I have a player who dies while the party took down the criminal organization run by a cleric of the god of trickery, Dewar (homebrew pantheon). The Dewarian was captured alive, and in exchange for life in prison (ordinarily it was a death sentence after trial), he would raise the fallen player from the dead. This cleric is the only one around of sufficient level to accomplish this. The players agreed, and the PC returned from the dead, with the cleric being marched back to his cell.

My question is this: The god of trickery was the one who raised this PC from the dead. There HAS to be a catch. What do you recommend as possible things that will go wrong in the whole coming back to life thing?

The Great Skenardo
2007-07-24, 11:16 AM
Depends on how severe you want to make the catch.
You could make it a somewhat amusing, spiteful sort of thing
i.e. he comes back, but after a while his hair starts turning green or he picks up some sort of curse.

A curse could range from the annoying to the debilitating. One curse might be that any vessel containing wine or alcohol the player raises to his lips instantly shatters, denying him the pleasure of Ale or wine. Another might be a permanent penalty to bluff as Dewar screws with his ability to lie, sometimes making him say completely ridiculous things.
"Why certainly that treasure chest was empty when we- Gazelles dwell in my underpants."

Alternatively, you could make it so that he's back from the dead. Most of the time. Every third or seventh day, for example, he might be locked in a catatonic state for the entire day while his soul plays backgammon with Dewar.

Runolfr
2007-07-24, 11:19 AM
I'm not sure there necessarily has to be a catch, but...

For starters, the character's spirit only knows that Dewar is trying to send him back to the world of the living. He doesn't know why, or what the circumstances will be when he gets there. You might ask your player to seriously consider whether the character would respond to that call, as the spirit has to agree to be raised.

bigbaddragon
2007-07-24, 11:20 AM
A curse? Get the PC chased by Marut at some point for cheating death? Taking life of someone from PC's family in exchange for his (so now he has a quest to survive long enough and bring back his wife/child/parent/insertRelativeHere from the realms of the dead)?

lotofsnow
2007-07-24, 11:21 AM
Make him cursed with bad luck. Once per day (DM's choice), he has to re-roll a successful die roll. The second roll determines success or failure.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-24, 11:25 AM
What was the PC's alignment when he died?

Cursed, Different Soul in the PC's body with different alignment or agenda are options.

Possibly Planetouched or a Psychic Reformation with an alignment change to CN.

Runolfr
2007-07-24, 11:27 AM
I suppose you could assume that Dewar grants reincarnate instead of raise dead. It could be amusing to have the character return to life as a kobold.

Runolfr
2007-07-24, 11:30 AM
I would be averse to doing anything too drastic to the character, unless that terms of the agreement were really vague. If he agreed to cast raise dead, then the character should be subject to the effects of raise dead.

If you wanted to stick on some minor cosmetic inconveniences (white hair, bizarre mark on the skin, or some such), that wouldn't be too far out of line, but afflicting the character with a heavy curse or something would be going too far, I think.

rollfrenzy
2007-07-24, 11:32 AM
Make the character in question bargain for his return. He doesn't know they are casting a spell. Basically have Dewar come up to his soul and say "Let's make a deal." then Subtly twist whatever deal is made.

Recursive
2007-07-24, 11:35 AM
Dewar could send the character back to his body...but not alone. It might actually take the character a little while to realize that he now shares his body with a mischievous and malicious spirit or minor demon. (Think Puck from Midsummer's Night Dream, for example.)

When the trespassing spirit takes control of the character's body -- maybe involving opposed will saves at moments of stress -- the results could range from horrific crimes to farcical humiliation, depending on the exact sorts of trickery that Dewar and his minions favor.

Meat Shield
2007-07-24, 11:37 AM
I'm not sure there necessarily has to be a catch, but...

For starters, the character's spirit only knows that Dewar is trying to send him back to the world of the living. He doesn't know why, or what the circumstances will be when he gets there. You might ask your player to seriously consider whether the character would respond to that call, as the spirit has to agree to be raised.
Before the took down the organization, the players had no idea who the bad guy was, only that he was known as the Shade. The Shade always wore a mask. They had met the cleric Salvon (worshiper of the god of healing, Mhyriss), and had gotten healing and assistance from him before. When the character died, the Shade had not yet been unmasked as Salvon.

So, when the call was sent to the soul of the departed, I (as the DM) told the player that he was resting in an Elysian Field sort of place when he received a vision of the Mhyrissian calling him back to join his friends. He had no reason to suspect a trick as he did not know the Mhyrissian was secretly a Dewarian.

Meat Shield
2007-07-24, 11:38 AM
What was the PC's alignment when he died?

Cursed, Different Soul in the PC's body with different alignment or agenda are options.

Possibly Planetouched or a Psychic Reformation with an alignment change to CN.
The PC in question is CG.


A curse could range from the annoying to the debilitating. One curse might be that any vessel containing wine or alcohol the player raises to his lips instantly shatters, denying him the pleasure of Ale or wine. Another might be a permanent penalty to bluff as Dewar screws with his ability to lie, sometimes making him say completely ridiculous things.
"Why certainly that treasure chest was empty when we- Gazelles dwell in my underpants."
That would be especially evil considering he is a Beguiler who is fond of drink. Drinking and lying is what he does.

mostlyharmful
2007-07-24, 11:39 AM
Let him broadcast an aura of Dewar-ishness, anytime someone scans him with magic he reads as evil or chaotic and he reacts to magic as though he is whatever alignment you like, not necessarily the characters true alignment but try explaining that to the oncoming paladin wiht the big flaming sword.:smalltongue:

The Great Skenardo
2007-07-24, 11:43 AM
The PC in question is CG.


That would be especially evil considering he is a Beguiler who is fond of drink. Drinking and lying is what he does.

In that case, you might pick one of the two. If you choose the lying handicap thing, you might impose a straight-up penalty or instead randomly have him make wll saves to avoid spewing out some nonsense about gazelles and walnuts instead of a cunning falsehood.
Heck, breaking the curse could be a quest in itself :smallbiggrin:

Nevar
2007-07-24, 11:44 AM
it just depends on the kind of deal you want to make, Maybe have a RP encounter with the god on this. Depending on his diplomacy you can set differant difficulties for differant things IE

Diplomacy DC 15: You Hair changes from black to red to blonde from dawn to dusk.
DC20: Random curse
DC 25: Mute one day of the week

or just whatever you want them to be can be as bad or as humorous as you like.

Keld Denar
2007-07-24, 11:48 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't cripple the player too much, or he'll resent it and you. Getting raised already loses you a level. It would be funny to add in some little quirk though, like the above mentioned hair color or the booze issue. Some other ideas might be:

Character sometime absentmindedly shoplifts/pickpockets
Character randomly emits a foul smell, making awkward social situations
Character sometimes shouts random awkward things
Random clothing worn by the character becomes transparent
Character randomly feels compelled to give money to rogueish types such as street urchins/street performers/players/beggers

Runolfr
2007-07-24, 11:52 AM
Before the took down the organization, the players had no idea who the bad guy was, only that he was known as the Shade. The Shade always wore a mask. They had met the cleric Salvon (worshiper of the god of healing, Mhyriss), and had gotten healing and assistance from him before. When the character died, the Shade had not yet been unmasked as Salvon.

So, when the call was sent to the soul of the departed, I (as the DM) told the player that he was resting in an Elysian Field sort of place when he received a vision of the Mhyrissian calling him back to join his friends. He had no reason to suspect a trick as he did not know the Mhyrissian was secretly a Dewarian.

Hmm... if the player actually wants the character raised, I don't see much grounds for conflict, but one of the stipulations of raise/resurrect magic is that the departed knows the deity seeking to return him/her to life. I don't really think fooling the character on this issue should be an option, but mileage may vary in your campaign.

Runolfr
2007-07-24, 11:54 AM
Character sometimes shouts random awkward things

Having the character return with Tourette's Syndrome would be amusing for a while, but I don't think you'd want it to be permanent.

bigbaddragon
2007-07-24, 12:03 PM
In that case, you might pick one of the two. If you choose the lying handicap thing, you might impose a straight-up penalty or instead randomly have him make wll saves to avoid spewing out some nonsense about gazelles and walnuts instead of a cunning falsehood.
Heck, breaking the curse could be a quest in itself :smallbiggrin:

Hahaha, it would be like the "Liar Liar" movie when Jim Carey cannot lie. Also you could make him intolerant to alcohol in a way you see fit.

Meat Shield
2007-07-24, 12:16 PM
Hmm... if the player actually wants the character raised, I don't see much grounds for conflict, but one of the stipulations of raise/resurrect magic is that the departed knows the deity seeking to return him/her to life. I don't really think fooling the character on this issue should be an option, but mileage may vary in your campaign.
Where does it say the character knows with absolute certainty who is bringing them back? (And it was truthful, as far as the character knew at the time of his death)

In general terms, I am not looking for something with in-game mechanics repercussions. I was more interested I think in character growth issues and NPC interactions. Although the PC now showing up on Detect Evil spells due to being tainted by an evil god has some merit, I like that idea.

Runolfr
2007-07-24, 12:38 PM
Where does it say the character knows with absolute certainty who is bringing them back? (And it was truthful, as far as the character knew at the time of his death)

As interpreted by me...

A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#bringingBacktheDead)

Meat Shield
2007-07-24, 12:47 PM
As interpreted by me...

A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#bringingBacktheDead)

Huh. I completely did not know that. I had only read the text in the Raise Dead spell. Good find Runolfr, thank you.

That being said I think the character would still want to come back to life, but I will ask now just to be sure.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-24, 12:54 PM
Let the PC come back with the choice of 1 - 3 of Dewar's Blessings as a God Marked/Touched or Blessed PC (Aaisimar characteristics with Dewar's Holy Symbol as a birth mark. Big deal to the Clergy and the Faithful as one of Dewar's mortal agents. His followers usually recognize and usually provide room, board or minor assistance although they occassionally believe Dewar sent to help with a problem. Grant the PC the +0 LA Assimar Template which shouldn't be unbalancing with a primary intelligence Beguiler.

Let him know there is a 50/50% chance the Blessing can be good or bad:

Along the lines of a Bestow Curse or a Reversed Bestow Curse.

Geased to Always Lie or Always Tell the Truth.

If you don't use the Flaw option in your game give the PC the option of choosing a Flaw or Two and taking a corresponding feat.

Name_Here
2007-07-24, 01:37 PM
I think that the God of Trickery would want his cleric busted out and would probaly place a geas on the Player that would last until the cleric is freed. Now my idea is that everybody the player meets sees somebody that is vaguely familiar in a vaguely bad way. Like a guy who would never have money of his own and always borrowed yours and never paid you back. Over time the crimes that the person remembers become worse and worse. Like one week he's a friend who dated your ex right after you 2 broke up later on he looks like the bully who terrorized you at school later he's the guy who killed your dog eventually the player can't even show his face in public without being spit on by practically everybody who sees him and if he even tries to open his mouth he's liable to throw the people he's talking to into a rage.

It'd be fairly easy to roleplay and if he's quick about rescueing the cleric it's not a huge problem but if he fails to uphold his deal with the god he'll end up drawn and quartered by an angry mob.

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-24, 02:27 PM
Make the character in question bargain for his return. He doesn't know they are casting a spell. Basically have Dewar come up to his soul and say "Let's make a deal." then Subtly twist whatever deal is made.

I like this one. It seems like an excellent way to actually twist a bargain, rather than just fulfilling the bargain and then playing a prank on the parties involved.

Runolfr
2007-07-24, 02:31 PM
I like this one. It seems like an excellent way to actually twist a bargain, rather than just fulfilling the bargain and then playing a prank on the parties involved.

As noted above, the subject of a raise dead or similar spell does know that a spell is being cast, who is casting it, their alignment, and their deity.

Citizen Joe
2007-07-24, 02:36 PM
If the raised character is a beguiler and lies a lot as you say, and the current boss of the organization is arrested, I'd say the Shade lives on. Whether he likes it or not, or even knows about it, this character just became the head of a criminal organization.

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-24, 02:48 PM
As noted above, the subject of a raise dead or similar spell does know that a spell is being cast, who is casting it, their alignment, and their deity.

Yes, but not if Dewar comes along before the spell is cast, as would make logical sense.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-24, 02:50 PM
Yes, but not if Dewar comes along before the spell is cast, as would make logical sense.

"I'll help them resurrect you on the following terms and conditions..."

Mike_Lemmer
2007-07-24, 03:21 PM
Yes, subtly setting things up so he starts his own criminal empire would be hilarious, especially if he does it for the right reasons but they keep using the wrong means.

Like, for example, spying in an enemy nation? And they keep wanting to rob everyone? It's like playing a hero with a pirate crew.

Superglucose
2007-07-24, 03:51 PM
It was a ressurection instead of a true ressurection? The member will fall dead a little bit later? It was a reincarnation? Granted two of these aren't feasible now, but it was so funny when the meet our elven ranger missed we got a reincarnation (hey, its cheaper! And since we donated the gold we saved to a nice charity, even the LG and NG members were happy) and he came back as a housecat... ah... I love that spell.