New Necromancy Spells [PEACH]

[Llama513]

1st level sacrifice: deal 1-20 damage to your undead companion heal for half

2nd level screams of the damned: 5d6 physic wis save for half, upcast add 1d6

3rd level exploding corpses: 3 corpses with 120ft explode 4d6 piercing dex save for half upast add 1d6

Wall of bones 4th level necromancy, 60ft long, 20ft tall, 2ft thick, 5d4 damage if in area when cast, if within 5ft of wall make dex safe or be grappled(caster dc) taking 3d4 if start turn grappled, make save again

5th level graveyard fog: 60ft radius all living creatures 4d8 necrotic con save half upcast add 1d8

6th level taint the soul:one target cha save, if failed 6d6 necrotic damage at start of turn lasts 1 minute can make save every turn

7th level Crypt of damned: summon a crypt entrance at point of your choosing, inside is a 30ft cubed mausoleum, any uninvited creature that enters takes 2d10 necrotic damage per round lasts 12 hours

8th level Fell presence: the weather in a 7 mile radius become gloomy and dark, people can feel an evil presence in the air. all spells that deal necrotic damage add int modifier. 8 hours

9th level soul rend: 20ft radius 5d10 cha save for all gain temp health equal to damage dealt with spell.

[TinyBlooper]

Sacrifice - Can you get an undead companion at level 1? I'm pretty sure all the make-a-zombie spells are at least level 3. Also, I assume the dice used here is a d20? I would recommend 3d8 instead, to align better with convention.

Screams of the Damned - This is single target? If so, it seems fine.

Exploding Corpses - This is cool. I'm not sure about the upcast scaling though. It's up to +3d6 per spell level if the corpses are close enough together. I can't think of a good way to get upscaling to work here, so maybe leave that off this spell.

Graveyard Fog - This is basically a half power Circle of Death one level before you get Circle of Death. Instead of straight damage, how about something that gives undead advantage/living creatures disadvantage in the area?

Taint the Soul - Having this last a full minute seems very powerful. Maybe have it do a bit less damage and give it an extra effect, like creatures have advantage on attack rolls against them. And it should probably require concentration.

Crypt of the Damned - Looks fine to me.

Fell Presence - Should definitely require concentration. Kind of weak for an 8th level spell. Consider having it also buff undead. Or just have zombies/ghosts spontaneously rise in the area, hostile to everyone but the caster.

Soul Rend - That's a ton of temporary hit points. It also feels a little bland for a 9th level spell. Remember, this is the level where wish and meteor swarm become options. Think big. Like, rip out half a dozen people's souls and bind their corpses to your will big.

[Ninja_Prawn]

A lot of these are just straight damage spells, which is kind of boring and there's already plenty of that available in the WotC books. Especially at high level, you need to be looking for things that are game-changing, not just 'more dice'.

Also we need to see durations, concentration requirements, material costs, etc. before we can properly review.


I can't think of a good way to get upscaling to work here, so maybe leave that off this spell.

Maybe 1 additional corpse per two spell levels?

[GalacticAxekick]

What Prawn said. A lot of necromancy-themed damage dice that don't actually help necromancers play any differently than they do as is. Keeping themes but changing effects, what can we do with these spells? For instance:

1st level sacrifice: deal 1-20 damage to your undead companion heal for half as a bonus action after making a successful weapon or spell attack, grant yourself or a creature within [insert range] temporary HP equal to the damage dealt. Ineffective when you damage an undead or construct.

2nd level screams of the damned: 5d6 physic wis save for half, upcast add 1d6 You target a dead, dying or undead creature within [insert range]. Foes within [insert range] of the creature must make a Wis save or be Frightened of it. A creature a frightened in this way must used their movement to move as far as possible from the spell's target. They may repeat the save at the end of their turns.

[Llama513]

What Prawn said. A lot of necromancy-themed damage dice that don't actually help necromancers play any differently than they do as is. Keeping themes but changing effects, what can we do with these spells? For instance:

1st level sacrifice: deal 1-20 damage to your undead companion heal for half as a bonus action after making a successful weapon or spell attack, grant yourself or a creature within [insert range] temporary HP equal to the damage dealt. Ineffective when you damage an undead or construct.

2nd level screams of the damned: 5d6 physic wis save for half, upcast add 1d6 You target a dead, dying or undead creature within [insert range]. Foes within [insert range] of the creature must make a Wis save or be Frightened of it. A creature a frightened in this way must used their movement to move as far as possible from the spell's target. They may repeat the save at the end of their turns.

I really like your idea for screams of the damned, as for sacrifice, what it is meant to be is, in conjunction with the true necromancer I am working on, you draw health from your undead companion, or an undead you summoned, or another has created to give yourself health, I can see turning into a dice roll though so that you can't just say I am taking this much health.

[GalacticAxekick]

I really like your idea for screams of the damned, as for sacrifice, what it is meant to be is, in conjunction with the true necromancer I am working on, you draw health from your undead companion, or an undead you summoned, or another has created to give yourself health, I can see turning into a dice roll though so that you can't just say I am taking this much health.I just thought sacrificing an undead for health was almost backwards: it invites the necromancer to run about desecrating corpses for health, when really if health were a substance, I'd expect healthy, living people to have it.

Pulling health from undead exclusively implies, to me, that the necromancer is pulling the type of energy that animates them away from them and using it to almost animate themselves? That's an interesting concept—a toe in lichdom—but I wouldn't call it a sacrifice. In fact, I think it's a bit obtuse to need to animate a corpse and then pull the animating energy away instead of just casting something like "animate living" to revitalize yourself or your allies.

And if you take the "animate living" approach, there's an interesting implication that no real healing is occuring (just like animated corpses say rotten), but that magic is instead compensating for shortcomings.

When you cast Animate Living, you may target yourself or a living creature within [range] and relieve them of the Blinded, Deafened, Fatigued, Poisoned or Unconscious conditions for [insert duration, concentration]. A creature with 0 hit points does not regain any hit points, and continues to make death saving throws, if they were, but may nonetheless see, hear, speak, move, and take actions/reactions.

That said, this would certainly be higher than a 1st level spell.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I just thought sacrificing an undead for health was almost backwards: it invites the necromancer to run about desecrating corpses for health, when really if health were a substance, I'd expect healthy, living people to have it.

To be fair, this idea already exists in the D&D canon[citation] (http://alcyius.com/dndtools/spells/lords-of-darkness--95/devastate-undead--1518/index.html). I remade it for 5e here (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2017/02/necromancy-spells.html).

[GalacticAxekick]

To be fair, this idea already exists in the D&D canon[citation] (http://alcyius.com/dndtools/spells/lords-of-darkness--95/devastate-undead--1518/index.html). I remade it for 5e here (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2017/02/necromancy-spells.html).Ah! I guess if the precedent exists most players won't mind it, though I personally find healing via undead roundabout at best.

Even where that precedent existed, the spell damaged a living caster, and only healed an undead caster.

[Llama513]

Thank you all for your suggestions, I will be making changes this weekend

[Llama513]

This is the link to a homebrewery with the spells on them, I will need some help with the material components, and Soul Rend will be added on later when I figure out what to make it.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HkW91YLqx

[Llama513]

Sorry about the delay, school got busy, I added Soul Rend to the homebrewery so it is now truly 9 new necromancy spells

[GalacticAxekick]

Sorry about the delay, school got busy, I added Soul Rend to the homebrewery so it is now truly 9 new necromancy spellsSoul Rend feels almost like two different spells, to me. I understand that the initial blast is what rips souls up, allowing you to fire soul shards. But thematically, I feel like souls shards should be made available whenever you kill a creature regardless of means (or at least whenever you kill a creature with necromancy). And mechanically, when would you so specifically want to destroy a swarm of creatures that surround you, specifically to use their souls as ammunition against another, more distant threat?

I'd make the second half of Soul Rend a class feature or feat for necromancers, and leave out the blasting half entirely. That said, my opinons are particular, so I'd get a second before you make any changes.

[Llama513]

Soul Rend feels almost like two different spells, to me. I understand that the initial blast is what rips souls up, allowing you to fire soul shards. But thematically, I feel like souls shards should be made available whenever you kill a creature regardless of means (or at least whenever you kill a creature with necromancy). And mechanically, when would you so specifically want to destroy a swarm of creatures that surround you, specifically to use their souls as ammunition against another, more distant threat?

I'd make the second half of Soul Rend a class feature or feat for necromancers, and leave out the blasting half entirely. That said, my opinons are particular, so I'd get a second before you make any changes.

That sounds really cool, and with the Dread Necromancer I am working on, I have an archetype where I could very easily put that ability, the Soul Caster

The thread for that class is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517025-My-take-on-a-full-Necromancer-class-PEACH)

Thought for Soul Rend, having it be that you heal for half the damage dealt instead of the soul shards

[GalacticAxekick]

That sounds much more consistent. Just be careful to tweak the damage so you aren't healing too much.

30d8 (average 135) damage is almost enough to totally heal a 20th level Wizard (182 hit points, assuming maximum Con and average hit die rolls). 30d8 damage on even two enemies statistically guarantees a full heal.

Instead, to prevent such massive healing, maybe borrow a system from humble old Sleep!

"This spell sends creatures swiftly to their deaths, tearing their souls from their bodies rather than harming them directly. Roll 15d10; the total is how many hit points of creatures this spell can affect. Creatures within 20 feet of you are affected in ascending order of their current hit points.

Starting with the creature that has the lowest current hit points, each creature affected by this spell dies instantly. Subtract each creature's hit points from the total before moving on to the creature with the next lowest hit points. A creature's hit points must be equal to or less than the remaining total for that creature to be affected."

You could go on to write that you yourself regain

15d10 was selected because of the average roll 82.5 and the maximum roll 150: not enough to fully heal the caster, and not enough to contend with Power Word Kill, but enough to heal appreciably and to snuff out a certain creatures and hordes.

[Llama513]

That sounds much more consistent. Just be careful to tweak the damage so you aren't healing too much.

30d8 (average 135) damage is almost enough to totally heal a 20th level Wizard (182 hit points, assuming maximum Con and average hit die rolls). 30d8 damage on even two enemies statistically guarantees a full heal.

Instead, to prevent such massive healing, maybe borrow a system from humble old Sleep!

"This spell sends creatures swiftly to their deaths, tearing their souls from their bodies rather than harming them directly. Roll 15d10; the total is how many hit points of creatures this spell can affect. Creatures within 20 feet of you are affected in ascending order of their current hit points.

Starting with the creature that has the lowest current hit points, each creature affected by this spell dies instantly. Subtract each creature's hit points from the total before moving on to the creature with the next lowest hit points. A creature's hit points must be equal to or less than the remaining total for that creature to be affected."

You could go on to write that you yourself regain

15d10 was selected because of the average roll 82.5 and the maximum roll 150: not enough to fully heal the caster, and not enough to contend with Power Word Kill, but enough to heal appreciably and to snuff out a certain creatures and hordes.

It feels weak for a 9th level spell, as the 9th levels that do damage don't reduce the damage that they do, its everyone in the area take this much damage, I really like what you were going for conceptually but I don't think that the sleep mechanic works well for a 9th level spell.

The spell doesn't have to heal, I was throwing it out as a possible mechanic, as I don't want to make a spell that just does a bunch of damage, I want it to have a unique aspect to it, one that makes sense thematically for a necromancy spell

[Llama513]

Idea, 9th level Mortal Coil, single target, range of 60 feet,

You make a range spell attack, on a hit the target takes a large amount of damage (not sure exactly what yet, thinking around 30d8 necrotic) if you kill the target you regain 5 spell slots, you can split these slots up as you see fit, one third level and a second, one fifth level, etc.

Could make this into a Charisma save if need be

Added Mortal Coil to the document so that you can see how it is worded

Have Soul Rend heal you for a quarter of the damage done to each creature killed by this spell, or having it be a set amount for each creature killed, what that set amount would be I am not sure

[Llama513]

If you have ideas for what to make the components of the spells I would love to hear them, as I am not good at coming up with what the material components should be, as such I could use some help with coming up with what those should be

[Llama513]

Idea for a cantrip, animate limb, for 1 minute you have a crawling claw, it acts on its own turn you can have it move and attack, use the stats presented in the monster manual for the crawling claw.


Added Animate Limb as a cantrip, I think it should be fine, as works kind of like a necromancy mage hand