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Ereus
2017-03-05, 12:10 PM
I'm looking for feats of vecna, like I heard he knows all secrets but I kinda doubt that to be honest as it would make him nigh impossible to kill.

ATHATH
2017-03-05, 01:10 PM
By "feats", do you mean his accomplishments? The feats that he, personally, possesses? Feats that many of his followers might have? Feats that are explicitly related to him?

What edition is this? All of them?

Malimar
2017-03-05, 07:51 PM
Where did you get the impression gods must be possible to kill?

TheCountAlucard
2017-03-06, 05:18 AM
Where did you get the impression gods must be possible to kill?Myth, perhaps? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_or_departure_of_the_gods)

Ereus
2017-03-06, 09:22 AM
I was just asking as I heard someone insist that vecna knows all secrets like he is omniscient in that respect, Which makes 0 sense as he has lost multiple times.

Stealth Marmot
2017-03-06, 09:40 AM
Where did you get the impression gods must be possible to kill?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/godofwar/images/1/19/Kratos_rendering_concept.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/310?cb=20100727072252

ATHATH
2017-03-06, 10:12 AM
I was just asking as I heard someone insist that vecna knows all secrets like he is omniscient in that respect, Which makes 0 sense as he has lost multiple times.
It's part of his portfolio, I believe.

Has he? Maybe it was all part of a cunning plan...

ComaVision
2017-03-06, 12:34 PM
He's one of two beings that ever escaped Ravenloft, so that's pretty impressive. He also started as a mortal, so gotta have some respect for that.

oudeis
2017-03-06, 12:38 PM
Myth, perhaps? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_or_departure_of_the_gods)
How many gods have fallen at mortal hands in mythology?

Vhaidara
2017-03-06, 12:57 PM
Where did you get the impression gods must be possible to kill?

Well, in Vecna's case, he has a statblock. therefore he is possible to kill.

Further, he's undead. So someone killed him (even if it was himself)

KillianHawkeye
2017-03-06, 01:37 PM
Further, he's undead. So someone killed him (even if it was himself)

I'm pretty sure his story is that he was a lich before he became a god.

ComaVision
2017-03-06, 01:43 PM
I'm pretty sure his story is that he was a lich before he became a god.

Absolutely correct.

Vhaidara
2017-03-06, 01:47 PM
I'm pretty sure his story is that he was a lich before he became a god.

hey, all that means is it takes time travel to kill him. Still counts :P

Tiktakkat
2017-03-06, 03:08 PM
I was just asking as I heard someone insist that vecna knows all secrets like he is omniscient in that respect, Which makes 0 sense as he has lost multiple times.

He has?
Are you sure?


Vecna was an ordinary person.
He "lost" his innocence and became a great warlord.

Vecna was a great warlord.
He "lost" his humanity and became a legendary lich.

Vecna was a legendary lich.
He "lost" his unlife and became a quasi-power.

Vecna was a quasi-power.
He "lost" his attempt to become an overpower and became a demipower.

Vecna was imprisoned on Ravenloft.
He "lost" his status as a domain lord and entered Sigil

Vecna was a demipower in Sigil.
He "lost" his attempt to usurp Sigil and became a lesser power.


A few more "losses" like that and he will not just be an overpower but the sole power.
Perhaps the greatest secret he has learned is how to win even when people "defeat" him.

ThePhantom
2017-03-06, 08:48 PM
Well, he lost his hand and eye. Yes he can influence the people who use those, but he would have really liked to still have them attached. Still a lost, even if he got some gains.

Tiktakkat
2017-03-06, 11:54 PM
Well, he lost his hand and eye. Yes he can influence the people who use those, but he would have really liked to still have them attached. Still a lost, even if he got some gains.

What does Vecna actually lose not having them?
Being a greater power? No.
Being an intermediate power? No.
Being a lesser power? Wait, that's what he is.
So . . . what do they actually "cost" Vecna in terms of actual as opposed to perceived power?

And what does Vecna gain? Mere influence? Hardly.
They overwhelm a user to the point that the user believes he is Vecna. That if about as close to having an aspect as you can get without actually being an aspect. And that is when he was a quasi-power, and not technically entitled to have any aspects running around.
Add to that spreading Vecna's name, establishing his cult, and allowing Vecna to finally achieve apotheosis, and the loss really pales to the point of irrelevance.

TheCountAlucard
2017-03-11, 06:07 AM
How many gods have fallen at mortal hands in mythology?Mistletoe may not have had hands, but it sure wasn't a god.

Likewise, Diomedes may not have killed Ares or Aphrodite, but if they were in no danger from his spear, why would they flee the battlefield?

oudeis
2017-03-16, 03:48 PM
Mistletoe may not have had hands, but it sure wasn't a god.

Nor was it a mortal/human. It was also cast at Balder by another god.


Likewise, Diomedes may not have killed Ares or Aphrodite, but if they were in no danger from his spear, why would they flee the battlefield?

I'd always understood that the Illiad was written long after Olympian theology had been essentially codified, and was treated as a work separate from and parallel to 'official' beliefs under the rubric of poetic license. If that's incorrect I'll happily revise my understanding. You are also deliberately dismissing or diminishing the importance of far more numerous examples of mortals who were punished by the Gods for offending them in even the slightest way. Arachne. Bellerophon. Andromeda. Need I go on? Can you give me pertinent examples of mortals felling gods from other mythologies? I have little exposure to these outside of gaming supplements and depictions in pop culture.

The_Jette
2017-03-16, 04:53 PM
Likewise, Diomedes may not have killed Ares or Aphrodite, but if they were in no danger from his spear, why would they flee the battlefield?

To be fair, Diomedes was fighting with the blessing and guarantee of protection from Athena, who would have pounded Ares into the ground. She blessed his armor and his weapons. So, it wasn't so much that the mortal chased off the Gods. It's more like, the mortal was given power by a more powerful God, and this opened up a chance of actual injury to Ares and Aphrodite, which made their game no longer fun.

Âmesang
2017-03-18, 11:49 PM
I would imagine getting into Sigil and messing with the Lady of Pain's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMzDyIJT2g) domain is a pretty substantial feat.

This reminds me of wanting to rewrite his 3rd Edition stats to take into account the Truespeak skill and associated spells, just to better represent his power over secret knowledge (might have to read up on shadow magic, too).

ATHATH
2017-03-19, 12:34 AM
I would imagine getting into Sigil and messing with the Lady of Pain's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMzDyIJT2g) domain is a pretty substantial feat.

This reminds me of wanting to rewrite his 3rd Edition stats to take into account the Truespeak skill and associated spells, just to better represent his power over secret knowledge (might have to read up on shadow magic, too).
Wait, Vecna #$%^ed with the Lady of Pain and survived?!

Tiktakkat
2017-03-19, 11:32 AM
Wait, Vecna #$%^ed with the Lady of Pain and survived?!

Yes. I pointed that out above.

Vecna entered Sigil, breaking the Lady of Pain's rule that no powers were allowed in.
Vecna was expelled when the usual suspect (those meddling kids) did some silliness involving various Chunks o'Vecna plus the Sword of Kas.
Vecna was then free to roam the planes and establish himself as part of the Core pantheon.

Some see this as "losing" because Vecna didn't wind up ruling Sigil and making the Lady of Pain his girlfriend.

Stealth Marmot
2017-03-19, 11:50 PM
Yes. I pointed that out above.

Vecna entered Sigil, breaking the Lady of Pain's rule that no powers were allowed in.
Vecna was expelled when the usual suspect (those meddling kids) did some silliness involving various Chunks o'Vecna plus the Sword of Kas.
Vecna was then free to roam the planes and establish himself as part of the Core pantheon.

Some see this as "losing" because Vecna didn't wind up ruling Sigil and making the Lady of Pain his girlfriend.

For those of your wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Vecna_Die!

Die Vecna Die was the last 2nd edition module made. It actually is believed by many that it was meant as a bridge between editions to explain the differences in 3rd edition and 2nd edition.

It was one of only 2 modules for 2nd edition that was released in the 21st century, and both ended up being methods of ending campaigns as you know them, the other being The Apocalypse Stone. Obviously they were preparing people for the new edition.

Honestly these modules fascinate me, seeing how they are swansongs for what had to have been some of the longest running campaigns, and the last creations made for TSR materials.