Relationship Woes And Advice, Part Two (Read First Post)

[Serpentine]

The funny thing is, I've heard all that story before. And I don't know how.
Hmmm... Really? :smallconfused: I'm sure I've only talked about it with one or maybe two people lately... I suppose it could've come up sometime in the last couple of years?


Don't worry about bias from that anyway. During my talks with best friend's girlfriend (I hate referring to people like that), I've learnt a lot about the other view of love. Said girlfriend has a father who is getting married for the fourth time soon. The last wife actually made quite a lot of mess with their divorce, as the father now can't see two of his sons, who are in care I believe. But, she's given me quite an insight into how she thinks. It's rather similar to yours really.
That sucks. I'm glad my parents had the sense to act rationally and reasonably in that break-up, especially considering how nasty it could easily have been. At the time it was convenient for us to stay with dad, so we did (even if it did mean a significant and sudden reduction in funds), and when it made more sense for me to go to mum's for high school, I did. Either way, I visited the other during the holidays. I think I've spent much more time on trains, buses (yuk) and planes than most people my age. Too bad I wasn't going anywhere very interesting...


By the by Serp, if you do decide to strike out single, you just know that half the boards, primarily Mr Pixie, will be all over you right away. :smallwink:
Perhaps, but unfortunately they're all half-way around the world :smalltongue: ('cept Dis, but I won't go into what we have in common...) Which means, of course, romantic potential is rather restricted... to online, in fact. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course - much easier to have several things going on at once :smallwink:

Ahem. After these disturbing glimpses into my psyche, I think it's time we heard a real problem.

[Thrawn183]

Serpentine is broken, but we can fix her:
Slinkier,
Scalier,
Purplier...

We have the time. We have the compassion.

(I don't really remember the quote well enough to any further.)

[Serpentine]

The sentiment was there, and appreciated :smallwink:

[Starla]

On asking someone out:

Have a plan in mind. Don't just ask them if they want to do something, be specific. Will you go to the "Weird Al Yankovich" concert with me next Friday?" is much better than "Will you go out with me?"

When you ask a girl out give her a planned activity and time. Even if she may not have pick that particular activity on her own she may go because she wants to spend time with you. If she says no you can ask her to clarify if it is the activity or the idea of spending time with you that she opposes.

Try to plan it a week in advance. I was never this aggressive, but I have learned that some girls think it will mar their character if they are available on short notice. So if you ask the night before they may say no even if they are available on the principle of the "attractive girls already have a date by Thursday." However, it is a good sign if she tries to schedule with you for the next week.

(By the way, I did attend the "Weird Al" concert with a guy whom I liked and I would never have gone, or heard about it, if he hadn't asked me)

[FdL]

How about a manly shoulder pat instead?
*manly shoulder pat*


Yeah, those are welcome too ^^



I'd still say the fact that she took it well bodes well for you in the "you'll still be good friends" aspect.

I'm curious, though. How do you mean "she took it well"? Depending on circumstances it could mean either "not you right now, but don't give up hope in case this doesn't work out" or it could mean "I like you, but not like that, but I don't want to lose what we've already got".


I don't really know, she wouldn't elaborate much beyond e-giggling (but she always does, man does IM suck most of the time). She said "but you knew I was seeing someone", to which I replied that I thought she wasn't really into him for what she'd told me, to what she replied that everything was fine.
Then she proceeded to show me a photo of them together :smallconfused:, and the she made me guess his age:smallconfused:, and I tried to be cool about it keeping good humour all along. Then we didn't chat much after that because it was late and she left for bed (she's also on dialup).

So I don't know how to take it. Either way it's a no. A "no, not now" that might apply to any future occasion. Though she would have told me, I guess, if she thinks she likes me as a friend but not as a man.

So I take it as a "no" for now. If I know that she leaves this guy, I might make another try (in fact I warned her of this).

In all, Zeb, I never know what a woman is thinking, and I'm betting I wouldn't know even if I had the powers of Charles Xavier ("aarghhh!! telephatic backlashhh!!! such confusionn....such jumbled thoughts...the pain...!" :p)




Of course neither is bad but it could help you plan for the future. I'd say given that she shared with you that she's looking for someone (even though already in an apparently not so serious relationship) means that at the very least she views you in a positive light.


Sure, she's cool to me, she's the one who starts our conversation, and she always asks about my stuff (which few people does).



At this point, though, I'd actually have to agree with something David D said (who I generally abhor, by the way). Date other people. At least show interest in other people. Only I say this not with the intention of making her jealous. I'm saying it meaning that it can show her that you're not pining for her and are capable of being happy without her even if you would like it if you could be with her.

I hope that made sense. If not, I'll try to elaborate.


Yeah, of course I'll date other people. I mean, I've only seen her once in person and then we started chatting through MSN (her friend gave me her address). And of course i can be happy without her, it's just that I thought it would be cool to ask her out, because I like her and we have interesting conversations.



That's great to hear, DR. I think I speak for all of us when I say we're glad we could help. :smallcool:

Yeah ^^ It's really nice to have this, you're all great guys and made me feel better, and it's always good to have someone to tell these things too. The advice is always great, and varied, which is good too.

Thanks for all the support. If there's any new development I'll keep you updated. In the meantime, I'll just keep my eyes open for other possible candidate. ;)

[Syka]

I'm kind of seriously feeling down. Talking to the guy I had been dating, I found out his dog died today. When he said, "I guess now is as good a time as any to tell you." I thought it would be followed by something pertaining to us. Not, "Sasha passed this morning." :smallfrown: I loved that dog. She was my surrogate pet because I can't have one where I live, nor can I afford it, and she was the breed I always wanted growing up. It isn't exactly unexpected, as she was 13 and had several health problems (blind, not able to walk as far as she used to be able to, running into more things lately, and we think hearing loss), but it's still terrible. I wish I could have been home...I can only imagine how he's feeling.

Also, it turns out that the dinner that was supposed to be on Saturday is in the town I go to school. But he decided not to go (he'd be relegated to the futon at his brothers place which he loathes), and so he told me today and as much as I love his family, I'd rather get home. So, whenever I get home on Saturday we're going to be hanging out. And I'm going to talk to him about what's going on. Wish me luck. :smalleek:

Cheers,
Syka...whose braindead from studying...

[Vampiric]

*checks hands in case of hidden knives*
*no knives*
Ouch, Syka
*hugs*

Good luck, you'll be fine.

And hope things get better for you, FdL, that sucks big time.

[Hell Puppi]

I think I would bring intense amounts of pain to any psychic that was around me. I usually have no less than 2 sides of my brain arguing at once.

Serpentine: I can relate...and there's nothing wrong with casually dating or being emotionally unattached. That being said there's nothing wrong with becoming attached if you chose to feel that way. Trying to force it either way is when things really get screwed up.

[Logic]

While the 'just falling into things' can work well, a lot of times it's nice to have it spelled out, especially if you worry about one of you taking things in a 'date' manner and the other in a 'friend' manner. Better to be clear from the start.

Relationships are about communication & trust, so the above bolded text is probably the most important thing to be said.

Bravo Alarra. You said what I wanted to in a single sentence what it would have taken me 3 pages to write.


Edit: @^ See, I on the other hand, don't like to look at relationships as transient things. I like to try to imagine each one as being the one I stay with forever and I think that's why I will push so hard to keep a relationship together once I'm in it, in spite of whatever problems, imperfections, and even lack of love I've found in some of my past ones. However, I can certainly see where you're coming from and consider that a valid way to view them, since really...most relationships aren't realistically for forever anyway.

I am guilty of this as well. If it were not for my exes ability to see the relationship was in a bad place, I imagine I would still be with my first HS sweetheart, and a bitter & unhappy man by now.

[Syka]

I will also admit to that flaw. Perhaps if I'd actually stuck to my guns and broke up with my ex a few months before it actually happened, like I should have, we'd still be friends. The world may never know. But at least now I've somewhat cured myself of that.

But then...it's also why I'm willing to give this other guy one more chance...>>

Cheers,
Syka

[Dragonrider]

I haven't had a lot of experience with relationships, but I too can't see them as transient...it's too hard for me to put that much effort into somebody without sticking to them (not in any way meant as a criticism of those who don't see it that way).
Probably why it's taking me so long to get over this one thing.... As for the physical aspect, well, I'm probably the only 16-year-old in the country who hasn't had any experience in that area yet. :smalltongue: Which doesn't really bother me. My family is pretty religious (a minority religion most people probably haven't even heard of) and it's not encouraged. At this stage in my life, not always easy, but on the other hand it helps you keep a level head...if you know what I mean.

[FdL]

At risk of worrying him (though he never comes out of Gaming anyway), I must admit I'm starting to feel a bit... itchy for singledom lately, I still love him and everything. It's sort of... I could see myself living out my days with him, but before that, I want to see what other relationships are like, good and bad, experience different ways of getting together, what it's like being together with other people, etc etc. Is that bad?


I think it's not bad per se if that's the way you feel. If that's what you want, I guess it means that somehow you don't want to be with him. I mean, the way I see a relationship (and live them), if you're happy with someone you don't want something else. It's not a forced thing, and it's not a matter of actively focusing energy to not think of the "else", it's just the natural way of how things are when they're fine.
So personally I'd take it as a symptom of you not wanting to be 100% with your bf. I got that kind of comments from my ex a couple of times (yes, she was honest and straight when telling these things, maybe too much for doing it to someone you care :S) and in the end it came apart.

And it's not bad, of course, because you should do what you really want and what makes you happy. In life things often are not bad or good but mainly "are". So think about how things are for you and make the best of it ^^


On the subject of relationships lasting or not, I can't help to live each relationship with everything I have, and believing it will be "the one" and it will be forever. I can't do it any other way. I know some people don't, but sometimes that can be precisely what makes them fail, the fact that they are not truly "believing" it and having a positive attitude about it (again my ex-gf). I guess that when you're just half there you're already gone. But well, as always that's just my opinion

@Vampiric: Thanks ^^ I didn't take it too bad, though I would have liked it to work. It was just bad timing, and lack of communication maybe.

@Syka: Sorry to hear that. *hug*

[Syka]

DR, don't get down. I didn't get my first kiss until I was 17. :) Do you mind PMing me about your religion? I'm avidly curious about different ones, etc. It comes from a love of cultures.

And yes, clarity is great. It's why I'm talking to this guy, and it's what drove me near mad for about 2-3 months. But, I did go into this realizing nothing would probably come of it, so I guess that has helped some. But I still don't want to give up on him, I feel there is still something I can learn.

Moral: There is no one right view. Find what works for you. :smallsmile:

Cheers,
Syka

[Xykon_Fan]

DR, I think I can one-up you. I'm 17 1/2 and my "first kiss" was from Hellpuppi in Kiss/Kill as a joke. (Also religious, don't want to get too involved physically too fast, and have only had one girlfriend because of a twisted idea of dating.)

I have wondered something...and I'll ask all the girls here...I'm going to be going to college soon, and the campus is 2/3 girls, 1/3 guys, and me (:smalltongue: ). So, my question is, given the fact that, with literally "Two girls for every boy," I'll probably end up with someone but I'm a little unsure: Would knowing that a guy had never even held hands with a girl, much less kissed one, make you more/less/same about dating him?

[Syka]

XF, experience has nothing to do with it, for me anyway. My first boyfriend had had one girlfriend before me, and that was barely a two week long relationship. The guy I was/still kinda am dating, has been dating since 6th grade and done certain...activities since middle school. I've never asked how many people he's been with, nor will I. Experience just isn't a factor with me. It's chemistry, how I work with the person, etc. :smallsmile: I wouldn't worry.

Good luck in college!

Cheers,
Syka

[FdL]

I have wondered something...and I'll ask all the girls here...I'm going to be going to college soon, and the campus is 2/3 girls, 1/3 guys, and me (:smalltongue: ). So, my question is, given the fact that, with literally "Two girls for every boy," I'll probably end up with someone but I'm a little unsure: Would knowing that a guy had never even held hands with a girl, much less kissed one, make you more/less/same about dating him?

Well, I can give you a masculine view of the issue, because it happened to me. I think it doesn't matter that much. When there's mutual attraction, you'll just learn to express that attraction in a way you are both comfortable with. And of course, the girl will understand if you tell her. I think it could add some degree of insecurity if she knows it beforehand, but that shouldn't be an obstacle for someone who really likes you. Others might disagree, but I think that it's better not to say it until it becomes relevant, and even at that point it's probably better to let your actions talk for you. No one was born having sexual experience, and yet everyone learns to express himself in intimate ways.

So don't worry about that ;)

[Logic]

I've never asked how many people he's been with, nor will I. Experience just isn't a factor with me.

My ego is far to fragile to not ask that question.

Xykon Fan, in my experience, most girls are not going to think any less of you. I would not worry were I in your situation.

[Syka]

Haha, my ego is far to fragile to ask it. ;) Nor have I asked him who they were. When I found out he kissed another girl, I did not ask who. Admittedly, when my ex cheated I did ask who it was and I'm glad I did. But in this case, all that I need to know is that he has...been intimate with others, which means before anything happens he's getting tested. But I think if I knew, it would make me more insecure. Namely, cause I'm pretty sure the number is higher than I would like. :smallwink:

Just by virtue of having been talking to me when my ex and I broke up, he knows I've only had one boyfriend, though, before him.

Cheers,
Syka

[Deuterium]

What do I see here? People being considerate and supportive... on the internet?!??

In response to a few of you before me; I didn't get my first kiss until I was 21, so there.

However, the main point of this post is to ask a question of my own.

I consider myself to be quite intelligent - I like to think I'm observant and can tell what's going on with people - but when it comes to relationships, I cannot tell if someone is flirting with me. I think that I may have missed countless opportunities due to this "blindness", but then again, I can't really say for sure, because it might just have been people being moderately nice to me.

In the past, the only time I worked out the girl was flirting with me, I was flat on my back... :smallwink:

What do you think I should do? Look for different clues? Hang a sign around my neck?

'Tis a puzzle, for me at least...

[Dragonrider]

I have the other problem....I don't know when I'm the one flirting. Or other people think that's what I'm doing but I'm just being nice. :smalltongue:

@^: This is Giantitp. :smallbiggrin: We're not "the Internet"...we're....Giantitp.

[sktarq]

Ah...self blindness....Know the feeling...annoying...What's even funnier is that I generally know know with a remarkable degree of accuracy if someone likes/is flirting with any of my friends or visa versa....We have worked out a system for this; simple comunication. If I am anywhere near my friends they will wink at me... or I will smile at them...supposedly I have an expressive face...It works well when we are in a group...other than that I have a flirty enough personality anyway to flirt back and pass it off as a joke if it is not returned on the slightest possibility of a come on. Pity this is almost all based on tonal changes, eye search patterns, smells, facial cues, and hand/foot tension signals and thus totally useless on the web.

[Koga]

I think I may have found someone to replace the gapping hole Amaya left.

I should probably stop referring to her to my friends as "the nazi bitch" lol! But she is a nazi! XD

And this really isn't a relationship problem as a side-effect problem.



Why won't Amaya's new boyfriend leave me the hell alone?!

I don't care about him or stupid Amaya! Amaya betrayed my trust and he took away the only that matterd to me. What could they possibly want?! Why do they gotta keep bothering me?!


But everytime I come onto a girl, Bryan's gotta his two cents in and somehow or someway gain access to her and tell her about what'a horrible person I am who's only thought his own personal sastisfcation boohoohoo!


And then we argue it's.. just.. wrong.. XD

Bryan: I want to run you over with my car!
Brian: You mean your van, cause that's what you used to lure Amaya with along with a bag of candy!



Yes, Amaya dumped me for a just as old, peverted, geezer-bastard, with the same name as me except with a letter that's neither a vowel nor a consonnant. Cause he's lame like that!



If I knew how to make youtubes I wouldn't make these angst rants and just let out my feelings on youtube. Probably make one of Freddy vs Jason "What I've Done".


And not say who was suppose to be who.

[Syka]

Yah, the guy I was/am dating had that problem. 8 months after him and his ex broke up (this was back in...February I think), he gets texts from her new boy saying how he's going to kick his *** and all. And meanwhile, my guy is going, "What in the world? I don't even know this kid, he's like 18." I personally thought the girl was stupid to give her new boyfriend her ex's number. I'd be pissed. I would never do that.

So I'd just tell the other guy to back off. He's got no right to be talking about that to girls (unless the girls are his friends, in which case he has every right to try and protect them).

As for flirting, I'm clueless unless someone hits me over the head with the ClueBrick. Until, recently it seems, actually. I've found that when guys start telling you they like you, you pick up on the signals so as to ward of potential unwanted suitors. Plus I'm a nice person, so a lot of what I do could be considered flirting when it isn't.

Cheers,
Syka

[Hell Puppi]

Bryan: I want to run you over with my car!
Brian: You mean your van, cause that's what you used to lure Amaya with along with a bag of candy!



I have to use the line on someone, or my life will not be complete XD

[Xykon_Fan]

Ummm...first off...can you write in coherent sentences, please? Put it in word, and don't stop until everything but the names don't have the red and green lines underneath. Seriously, Koga, you should know better.

Second, why are you in contact with Amaya or her new boyfriend? If she truly hurt you, and if he truly hurt you, like you say, shouldn't you just cease contact? Tell them (nicely), that seeing her with him is just too hard for you, and that there are too many feelings about them together for you to be happy around them. It's true (as evidenced by your post), and it will fix your problem.

[Pyrian]

Am I a bad person if I admit that hearing of Koga getting his all-too-just desserts warms my cold and bitter heart? :smallamused:


I have the other problem....I don't know when I'm the one flirting. Or other people think that's what I'm doing but I'm just being nice. :smalltongue:

I don't know you and I don't know how you act, but I've had girls "unintentionally" flirt with me and it drives me bonkers, so I'll float some behaviors that have caught my attention and maybe we can tease out whether you're accidentally coming on to people or they're just thinking wishfully.

Do you...

- Catch their eye, then smile broadly, blush, and look down/away? (BTW, this non-verbal is so instantly expressive that if you're too shy to directly tell someone you like them it's a pretty good affectation to deliberately develop.)
- Pick them out of a crowd of people you know to talk to first?
- Give them your complete attention in a group of people you also know?
- Touch them lightly in normal conversation?
- Do your eyes widen subtly when you look at them?
- When/if you hug them, do you turn your head towards them, kiss them on the cheek, and/or press your breasts firmly against them?

- All of the above? :smalltongue:

All of these can be friendly behaviors, but any of them individually or especially the whole set can be taken as a not-that-subtle come-on.

[Logic]

Am I a bad person if I admit that hearing of Koga getting his all-too-just desserts warms my cold and bitter heart? :smallamused:



I don't know you and I don't know how you act, but I've had girls "unintentionally" flirt with me and it drives me bonkers, so I'll float some behaviors that have caught my attention and maybe we can tease out whether you're accidentally coming on to people or they're just thinking wishfully.

Do you...

- Catch their eye, then smile broadly, blush, and look down/away? (BTW, this non-verbal is so instantly expressive that if you're too shy to directly tell someone you like them it's a pretty good affectation to deliberately develop.)
- Pick them out of a crowd of people you know to talk to first?
- Give them your complete attention in a group of people you also know?
- Touch them lightly in normal conversation?
- Do your eyes widen subtly when you look at them?
- When/if you hug them, do you turn your head towards them, kiss them on the cheek, and/or press your breasts firmly against them?

- All of the above? :smalltongue:

All of these can be friendly behaviors, but any of them individually or especially the whole set can be taken as a not-that-subtle come-on.

Wow. If this is the minimum for flirting, I have only been flirted with, like 6 times tops. I guess I haven't missed as many as I thought I had...

[FdL]

I consider myself to be quite intelligent - I like to think I'm observant and can tell what's going on with people - but when it comes to relationships, I cannot tell if someone is flirting with me. I think that I may have missed countless opportunities due to this "blindness", but then again, I can't really say for sure, because it might just have been people being moderately nice to me.

In the past, the only time I worked out the girl was flirting with me, I was flat on my back... :smallwink:


Yeah, you get a whole different perspective from there :smallbiggrin:



What do you think I should do? Look for different clues? Hang a sign around my neck?

'Tis a puzzle, for me at least...

'Tis, indeed. It's really difficult for me to tell most of the time. I think it's related to the fact that I usually don't think that it's possible that a girl is into me. There are times when I seem to subconsciusly ignore signals because I don't like the girl (ie, play dumb).

We have this new girl at the office. She used to work in the same building. And I must confess I kinda looked at her and made eye contact and generally flirted with her at some point. Ages ago, like 5 years back.
Then the other day we're alone in the office and it was my first day after vacation, so we were kinda making conversation to introduce ourselves. Then she comes with a comment meaning something like "yeah, I noticed you, and the other girls in the office kept telling me to talk to you or something, but I was very shy" :smalleek: I took the "was" to be a key word in her speech. So I changed subject politely. Don't know where that's headed, but I no longer like her really, I got out of flirting frequency with her ages ago. Plus I've learned some things about her that I don't like at all. So I'll be playing dumb, if I'm reading her correctly.


I have to use the line on someone, or my life will not be complete XD

Which one of the two you quoted? 'Cause you know, the second one is not that bad either. :p

-----------------------------------------------

@Pyrian's flirting signs:

In general, getting attention from someone is a sign (duh).

Eye contact is probably the most expressive clue. The game of eyes meeting, hiding, searching...A lot can be found there. But if you don't know the other person and her gestures and the general way in which she behaves, you might misinterpret her.

In conversation you generally can get a lot of clues. Well, first she's talking to you, that's a good start (let's try to build self-esteem from the bottom up, I'm with you there :p). Then she may laugh at your jokes. Most of them, even the not so funny ones. That's a good way to try, really :)
Then you can tell when she asks about you, and when she listens to your replies looking like she's interested. If you're talking about boring things, or hm....if you're a gamer and she's not, for example, and she listens looking very interested, well that's a good sign.

Then physical contact is a dead giveaway. Definitely a breast hug is (that sounded weird). The same with abundance of kisses as salutations (here in Argentina it's common and you do it with everyone, but you can still tell). But also more frequent is those little touches in conversation, where she might touch your arm to get your attention while she talks or to stress what she's saying...Any kind of physical contact is a good sign because people usually don't do it with people they don't like...

[Cyrano]

Wow. If this is the minimum for flirting, I have only been flirted with, like 6 times tops. I guess I haven't missed as many as I thought I had...

Those are flirting equivalent of a shouted "MAKE OUT WITH ME YOU SON OF A" in a football stadium. No game.

Otherwise, you're looking at subtle conversation, mostly.

[Hell Puppi]

Flirting is a weird thing. there are people who flirt with everyone, rather unintentionally, because it's in their personality (damn you friends with social competence!), and then there's people like me who have no idea how to, and it would take someone either asking to kiss me or just kissing me to realize "Oh, hey, you find me attractive!" (well, blurting it out works, too).
Flirting is one of those silly things. It's different for everyone. That's why it's important to get comfortable with someone, then ask how they feel about you, otherwise you just may end up flirting and letting a chance go by.

[Cyrano]

Unfortunately, my flirting is roughly the same as my talking with anyone. Shy, halting speak and a complete lack of understanding of how normal human beings speak comfortably.
I'm bad at the social graces.

[Logic]

Those are flirting equivalent of a shouted "MAKE OUT WITH ME YOU SON OF A" in a football stadium. No game.

Otherwise, you're looking at subtle conversation, mostly.

Well, the "Cluebrick" hasn't hit me yet, but I also successfully made my reflex save vs the ugly stick.

[FdL]

True, Puppi, it's different for everyone and it has to do with personality.

I consider myself to be shy, but I can tell when I'm flirting with someone, it comes out naturally when I'm with someone I like (or from who I get flirty feedback, sometimes it works on its own I guess).

Well, the thing is that I think I'm good at flirting, but it usually doesn't go beyond that. So I end up having to make things more explicit...Because you know how things work in the realm of the ambiguous, until you make things clear and unequivocal it's really up to you how do you interpret them.

Flirting is fun when it's casual, but it can be frustrating when you try to use it as a means of communication (and you are not getting any feedback).

[Serpentine]

I have wondered something...and I'll ask all the girls here...I'm going to be going to college soon, and the campus is 2/3 girls, 1/3 guys, and me (:smalltongue: ). So, my question is, given the fact that, with literally "Two girls for every boy," I'll probably end up with someone but I'm a little unsure: Would knowing that a guy had never even held hands with a girl, much less kissed one, make you more/less/same about dating him?
It can be a very good thing, at least once you get down to the truly physical side of things (probably before, too): if she's new at it all as well, it means you can learn about it all together. You'll fumble and giggle and mess up, but you'll be doing it all together, and you won't have to feel embarrassed at your incompetence because, well, you'll both be just as incompetent as each other (of course, one being a little more experienced than the other isn't a bad thing, either - that one can guide and stuff).
As for just dating... well, there might be a bit of a "hmmm, never done anything = undesirable?" subconscious thing, but I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. Anyway, it's not as though you're gonna be running around with your shirt of howling "Wooooooo I'm an everything virgin! Yeah!" ...is it? :smalltongue:

Regarding flirtation: I am the flirt queen! ^_^
>.>
Yeah, I think the problem with me would be figuring out just how serious I am about it. It's kinda a passtime for me... not that I get that many opportunities to employ it. I mean, there's making Conrad Poohs uncomfortable, but there's no sport in that.

[Thrawn183]

There's nothing wrong with inexperience as long as you try and learn as you go rather than just kind of fumble for weeks on end. Its funny and even endearing in the beginning, so you've got some breathing room. But there is definitely a point where you have to put up or shut up to show that you've been paying attention to your S.O. and what they like.

As for women who flirt? Wow, have I met some offenders. In fact, just today, a friend of mine complained about how guys hit on her at clubs after spending 2-3 minutes detailing how crazy she gets and what kind of (IMHO) inapproprate things she does. Its like some people don't make the connection that people will treat you in a manner that is a reflection of how they see you act. *Throws hands in air* I brought up the above, and she flat out refused to accept that she was in any way responsible.:smallconfused:

[Koga]

Descisions Descisions. (And actually I cut Amaya out of my life but she won't leave me the hell alone)

I got Terra who is super hot nazi-Satan chick!

Kelli who's a friend of mine's little sister and is so sweet and niave..

Another Kelli who actually thinks i'm funny and smart!


I should start making girlfriend baseball cards..

[Syka]

...so you are dating all those chicks? :smallconfused:

If so, I'm sorry, but I can't help you. I at least tried before, now I'm not even going to.

Cheers,
Syka

[Xykon_Fan]

Dude...don't play these girls...we told you this last time too...

Furthermore, have you actually asked both Amaya and her BF to leave you alone? If you didn't say it directly and nicely don't expect them to.

[Dragonrider]

Yeah, I was just lying on my bed thinking about the flirting thing, and on my level anyway, it's not very "out there"...largely because I'm pretty shy most of the time. I think part of it is that talking in social situations is embarrassing for me, so when I do talk I get very sarcastic and I'm not very serious. I guess it's my way of handling stress. But anyway, although I'm not one of those people who can't do anything right around guys, the tendency does get slightly worse.

But here's the kicker. If you're interested in someone, EVERYTHING they do (and you feel you're doing) can be interpreted as, if not flirtatious, at least a sign of interest. If you meet their eyes; if you avoid their eyes; if you talk to them specifically; if you don't even though they're right there; if you sit next to them; if there are two chairs open and you take the one NOT next to them; if you are too nice; if you make fun of them; if you touch them; if you avoid physical contact at all costs....

I guess it just makes you oversensative. My mom says girls have a tendency to overanalyze every little detail of every conversation and situation, and it is unfortunately true.

[Cyrano]

Descisions Descisions. (And actually I cut Amaya out of my life but she won't leave me the hell alone)

I got Terra who is super hot nazi-Satan chick!

Kelli who's a friend of mine's little sister and is so sweet and niave..

Another Kelli who actually thinks i'm funny and smart!


I should start making girlfriend baseball cards..

I wouldn't be surprised if none of these girls wants to date you. Mostly because if someone came up to me, and I knew that he/she was picking me out of a lineup reminiscent of horse races and debating the existance of "girlfriend baseball cards", I would slap him. Please, pleasepleaseplease, stop referring to living, breathing people like that. It disconcerts me.

[Pyrian]

If you're interested in someone, EVERYTHING they do (and you feel you're doing) can be interpreted as, if not flirtatious, at least a sign of interest.

Absolutely true. That's what I meant by wishful thinking! That's kind of why I wanted to get a better idea of what's going on before rendering any sort of judgment. Seriously, if you don't think you're flirting and others do, how can I - sitting behind this otherwise very nice widescreen monitor - possibly guess where the breakdown in communication lies? If I saw the interactions personally I could probably say something very specific.

[Holy_Knight]

...I'm a way? I didn't know there was anything to fix :smalltongue: I didn't mean to suggest that I don't aim to have good relationships or anything like that. In fact, I'm quite proud of the one I have right now - lots of communication, silliness, love, and geekiness. At risk of worrying him (though he never comes out of Gaming anyway), I must admit I'm starting to feel a bit... itchy for singledom lately, I still love him and everything. It's sort of... I could see myself living out my days with him, but before that, I want to see what other relationships are like, good and bad, experience different ways of getting together, what it's like being together with other people, etc etc. Is that bad?

No. Not at all. It's actually a really good idea to take time, date quite a few people, learn, grow, find out what you really want. A lot of times when you marry the first person you date, you eventually realize that you haven't experienced anything else and begin to wonder 'what if' and think that things aren't as good as they could be because you have nothing to compare them to. Having experiences isn't a bad thing at all. I think the point that both I and HK were trying to say, is that the way your post sounded, it sounded like you were going into relationships knowing before they start that they won't last, which is a good way to doom yourself from the start, or that you don't expect to find someone that makes you happy, and will end up settling. Neither point of which I think you actually meant. So I'm sorry if I read things wrong and into your post that weren't there.
Yes, I think Alarra put it very well--thank you, Alarra. That's what we were getting at. (Some of what you said also reminded me of a friend of mine. His mother ran out on him when he was only about 2 years old, and because of that, he told me that he didn't really expect to ever have a lasting relationship. It's sad, and I just hope that your own views aren't colored in the same way as his.)

As for your question, it sounds to me like you care about your current boyfriend, but you aren't sure whether ultimately he's really right for you. And like Alarra said, no, there's nothing wrong with that, and it's probably natural to feel that way. The important thing is just to be honest about it, both with him and with yourself.


On asking someone out:

Have a plan in mind. Don't just ask them if they want to do something, be specific. Will you go to the "Weird Al Yankovich" concert with me next Friday?" is much better than "Will you go out with me?"

When you ask a girl out give her a planned activity and time. Even if she may not have pick that particular activity on her own she may go because she wants to spend time with you. If she says no you can ask her to clarify if it is the activity or the idea of spending time with you that she opposes.
I tend to agree, although sometimes it depends. Sometimes, by asking something more general like "Would you like to go out sometime?" first, it allows her to say initially whether she is interested, is single in the first place (if you don't know), and so on. If she responds positively, then you can ask something more specific, which I agree you should have ready ahead of time.



Try to plan it a week in advance. I was never this aggressive, but I have learned that some girls think it will mar their character if they are available on short notice. So if you ask the night before they may say no even if they are available on the principle of the "attractive girls already have a date by Thursday." However, it is a good sign if she tries to schedule with you for the next week.
Heh, this sounds suspiciously similar to "The Rules", which is a rather disturbing manifesto if you've ever looked at it. But yeah, it's a good idea to plan in advance anyway, just because short notice is less considerate and harder for people to work with anyway.



(By the way, I did attend the "Weird Al" concert with a guy whom I liked and I would never have gone, or heard about it, if he hadn't asked me)
So you got to go out with a guy you liked, and see Weird Al in concert? You really won big on that one!


I think I would bring intense amounts of pain to any psychic that was around me. I usually have no less than 2 sides of my brain arguing at once.
Well, yeah, obviously. I mean, if you had just one side of your brain arguing, you'd be crazy.


As for the physical aspect, well, I'm probably the only 16-year-old in the country who hasn't had any experience in that area yet. :smalltongue:
Nah, you're not as alone as you think, Dragonrider. I'm older now, but when I was 16, I hadn't had any physical experience either. I didn't have my first kiss until I was 19, and nothing beyond that until I was 22.



I consider myself to be quite intelligent - I like to think I'm observant and can tell what's going on with people - but when it comes to relationships, I cannot tell if someone is flirting with me. I think that I may have missed countless opportunities due to this "blindness", but then again, I can't really say for sure, because it might just have been people being moderately nice to me.
Yeah, I have that same problem. Occasionally I've had flashes of insight, and I'm a little better than I used to be, but in general I'm fairly oblivious to that sort of thing. So, um... solidarity, brother. Or something.


I have the other problem....I don't know when I'm the one flirting. Or other people think that's what I'm doing but I'm just being nice. :smalltongue:
I have that problem too! One time in college, I was talking to a female friend, and I said "Hey, have you seen my kangaroo?" No sooner are the words out of my mouth than she's laughing and saying "What?", and her friend laughs and goes "What kind of a line is that?!" But it wasn't a line... my sister had given me this stuffed kangaroo that made music and hopped around for Christmas, and it was kind of funny, so I just wondered if I'd shown it to her. In the end we got it straightened out, and I did show her the kangaroo, which she agreed was fun to watch. :smalltongue:

Now that I think about it, here's a similar story, although I was flirting at the time, just not in the way that the girl thought. When I first met my ex-girlfriend, we were conversing by writing notes to each other during a presentation on campus. During that conversation, we had the following exchange:

Her: "I miss elementary school, because when someone had a birthday they would bring cupcakes to share with everyone."

Me: "My birthday is next Tuesday--I could give you a cupcake."

She seemed really confused by this at first, and took a while before she responded. Later she told me that she had thought and thought as hard as she could to figure out what "giving someone a cupcake" was innuendo for. Finally, she decided that I really was just talking about cupcakes (which was true). :smalltongue:



@^: This is Giantitp. :smallbiggrin: We're not "the Internet"...we're....Giantitp.
Well said. :smallsmile:


Am I a bad person if I admit that hearing of Koga getting his all-too-just desserts warms my cold and bitter heart? :smallamused:



I don't know you and I don't know how you act, but I've had girls "unintentionally" flirt with me and it drives me bonkers, so I'll float some behaviors that have caught my attention and maybe we can tease out whether you're accidentally coming on to people or they're just thinking wishfully.

Do you...

- Catch their eye, then smile broadly, blush, and look down/away? (BTW, this non-verbal is so instantly expressive that if you're too shy to directly tell someone you like them it's a pretty good affectation to deliberately develop.)
- Pick them out of a crowd of people you know to talk to first?
- Give them your complete attention in a group of people you also know?
- Touch them lightly in normal conversation?
- Do your eyes widen subtly when you look at them?
- When/if you hug them, do you turn your head towards them, kiss them on the cheek, and/or press your breasts firmly against them?

Okay, as an admittedly oblivious person, I still have to say that I fail to see how anyone could interpret this one as anything but obviously flirting. I mean, come on. :smalltongue:


Flirting is a weird thing. there are people who flirt with everyone, rather unintentionally, because it's in their personality (damn you friends with social competence!), and then there's people like me who have no idea how to, and it would take someone either asking to kiss me or just kissing me to realize "Oh, hey, you find me attractive!" (well, blurting it out works, too).
Flirting is one of those silly things. It's different for everyone. That's why it's important to get comfortable with someone, then ask how they feel about you, otherwise you just may end up flirting and letting a chance go by.
Yep. That's me, too. Although there was at least one case where the girl made it so blatantly obvious that even I had no trouble telling what was going on (probably because she knew me well enough to know that that's what it would take.) Unfortunately, I knew that it would be a bad idea for me to go out with her, and the whole situation was further complicated by the fact that (a) She was really good at it; (b) she was really physically attractive; and (c) a large part of me really did want to date her. It took all my skill, cunning, and willpower to escape her amorous advances.

(Yeah, I know, poor me, right? But honestly, dating her would have been bad. It was a worse problem than it sounds like.)



Regarding flirtation: I am the flirt queen! ^_^
>.>
Well in that case, given how many people on this thread have said they have trouble with it... you should start giving lessons! :smallsmile:

[Hell Puppi]

Well, yeah, obviously. I mean, if you had just one side of your brain arguing, you'd be crazy.




The problem is it's NO LESS, than 2, and each voice has it's own distinct personality...yeah I'm gonna stop there....

[Dragonrider]

Nah, you're not as alone as you think, Dragonrider. I'm older now, but when I was 16, I hadn't had any physical experience either. I didn't have my first kiss until I was 19, and nothing beyond that until I was 22.


Yeah, it doesn't actually bother me much....relationships (and life in general) are complicated enough as it is....and anyway, I wouldn't want my first kiss to be "just anyone" just for the sake of having one. (see my opinion on lasting relationships. :smalltongue:)

Truthfully, I never thought much about guys till I was about 13, anyway. And then it was one specific person. I've always been kinda like that, I guess, I thought it was stupid to think about it through elementary school and most of middle school, since what's the point of a relationship at that age anyway...? Of course, hormones kick in at some point and then you just can't help it, but my brain dragged me into the whole deal kicking and screaming. :smallamused: Silly brain. Doesn't it know life's easier without all this?

[Serpentine]

As for your question, it sounds to me like you care about your current boyfriend, but you aren't sure whether ultimately he's really right for you. And like Alarra said, no, there's nothing wrong with that, and it's probably natural to feel that way. The important thing is just to be honest about it, both with him and with yourself. I think it's more that I could think that he is right for me, but I want to see what people who're wrong for me are like before I come to that decision. And I think I'm pretty honest about it... If he gets this job in Canberra we'll be breaking up with the possibility open of getting back together at some ill-defined future date. On the other hand, his comment that "she decided" this distressed me somewhat :smalleek: I thought it was a mutual concensus... anyway.


Well in that case, given how many people on this thread have said they have trouble with it... you should start giving lessons! :smallsmile:
Lesson 1: Use him as furniture.

[The Great Skenardo]

Lesson 1: Use him as furniture.

Note that boyfriends have a tendency to whine, however, if you try and get them reupholstered. You may also find them in need of frequent shampooing, and (in a few cases), restuffing.

[Logic]

Note that boyfriends have a tendency to whine, however, if you try and get them reupholstered. You may also find them in need of frequent shampooing, and (in a few cases), restuffing.

And while Red Mage claims that Febreeze solves everything, it does not work on man-furniture.

[AngelSword]

Ok, so I'm going out on a limb, putting my heart on the line, swallowing my pride, and all sorts of other examples of being nervous about my next course of actions.

Remember the girl that I've mentioned a few times? The pretty one who went with me to the Renaissance Faire? The sweet one who laid with me for hours, watching DVDs? I am going to drive up to the camp at which she works, and surprise her with a bouquet of lilies. And I will make good on a promise made to myself.

I will kiss her.

I will not leave her company until I do.

Wish me luck. :redface:

[Xykon_Fan]

Good luck, Angel! *Hopes the universe and stars align to magnetically pull her into you*

[Midnight Son]

I wish I could kiss the girl I love right now. Damn stupid unforseen circumstances keeping us apart.

[Logic]

I will kiss her.

I will not leave her company until I do.

Wish me luck. :redface:

You had better! I am living vicariously through you!
(We all know I would not have the courage to do the same.)
Besides, you were going to be a T.I.! How can a T.I. be afraid of a girl!

[Pyrian]

- When/if you hug them, do you turn your head towards them, kiss them on the cheek, and/or press your breasts firmly against them?Okay, as an admittedly oblivious person, I still have to say that I fail to see how anyone could interpret this one as anything but obviously flirting. I mean, come on. :smalltongue:Oddly, I get this behavior almost exclusively from my married female friends. :smalleek: I really don't think they're coming on to me! But, y'know, who am I to say for sure... :smallredface:


Wish me luck. :redface:Best of luck!

[zeratul]

Gah guys, assuming most of you know my situation I'm still having trouble thinking of weather or not I should ask her if she likes me. Should I ask directly or should I just try to see if she leaves any indication of it?

[Aramil Liadon]

Yay! Best wishes and goodwill to Angel, sympathies to Midnight Son (which I thought had a 'u').
Other than that, all I can offer is the promise that I am lurking here.

[Pyrian]

Should I ask directly or should I just try to see if she leaves any indication of it?Well, the problem with waiting for indications is that they might not come, and she might be waiting for you to drop the like-bomb first. So, at this point I'd say you ought to ask directly; it's time to move on, one way or the other.

[AngelSword]

Besides, you were going to be a T.I.! How can a T.I. be afraid of a girl!
Well, considering that some of the scariest TIs are women…
:smalltongue:

[Hell Puppi]

Well, considering that some of the scariest TIs are women…
:smalltongue:

You better do it, otherwise I can become far scarier than most military women could hope to achieve...

:smallbiggrin:

[AngelSword]

You better do it, otherwise I can become far scarier than most military women could hope to achieve...

:smallbiggrin:

:smalleek: Please don't hurt me.

[Deuterium]

Ah...self blindness....Know the feeling...annoying...What's even funnier is that I generally know know with a remarkable degree of accuracy if someone likes/is flirting with any of my friends or visa versa....We have worked out a system for this; simple comunication.

A system like this would be great. My friends, however, would probably enjoy sending me the wrong feedback just to watch me squirm...


Yeah, you get a whole different perspective from there :smallbiggrin:

'Tis, indeed. It's really difficult for me to tell most of the time. I think it's related to the fact that I usually don't think that it's possible that a girl is into me.

I'm lucky I met a girl who was smart enough to realise that I liked her and wasn't going to make the next step without some "help" - one moment we were sitting in the park, the next she was lying on top of me and demonstrating this thing you earthlings call "kissing". :smallbiggrin:

I, too, may have ignored obvious signals because I thought it impossible that a girl would be interested in me.

As for the nature of those "obvious signals", I do know what they are, I think everyone has seen enough movies and soap operas to see (admittedly, exaggerated) versions. I just never see it happening to me.

The horrifying conclusion this leads me to is that no-one has ever flirted with me... I refuse to believe that is true, the personification of Deuterium's Self-Confidence has been fighting a losing battle for a long time, but he's not going down just yet.


Yeah, I have that same problem. Occasionally I've had flashes of insight, and I'm a little better than I used to be, but in general I'm fairly oblivious to that sort of thing. So, um... solidarity, brother. Or something.

I'll let you know if I get the answer. :smallsmile:


Lesson 1: Use him as furniture.

See above for how I had that blinding insight... :smallwink:

[The Prince of Cats]

Well, the problem with waiting for indications is that they might not come, and she might be waiting for you to drop the like-bomb first. So, at this point I'd say you ought to ask directly; it's time to move on, one way or the other.
I would have to say that you need to make a move. If you want it, work for it. Life is too short for might have beens...

This from a man who always needed obvious signs. I mean one girl realised I was shy and tackle-snogged me. And even after that, I still wasn't sure if she liked me. I am just lucky that women used to throw themselves at me, recognising my sexy oblivious nature.

[Quincunx]

And while Red Mage claims that Febreeze solves everything, it does not work on man-furniture.

. . .Thank you, that clears up one lingering question from MegaCon '04. . ."What was that peculiar bouquet of odors not meant to be combined?" Convention Sunday > Febreeze.

For my part, there's no way the breasts aren't going to get in the way of a hug. They're not detachable. Watch for multi-part hugs: hug and kiss, hug and contented sigh, hug and nestling for comfiness, NOT hug and filch item from back pocket (tho' that may work for some), NOT hug and push away immediately.

[Xykon_Fan]

If a girl ever pick-pocketed me while she was hugging me, I might propose right there. Seriously, a girl who can manage what I am actively trying to learn? She could teach me! Heheh, I might "accidentally" take a while to master back-pocket pickpocketing though.

[Flakey]

On the other hand, his comment that "she decided" this distressed me somewhat :smalleek: I thought it was a mutual concensus...

A break up is very rarely mutual. Even if one person agrees with the other, it is more on the lines of "OK we will split *underbreath* not that I have a lot of choice in this matter anyway".

[magicwalker]

@^: How else would it be?

I'm breaking up with you.

Uhh, no.

*bad comedy skit then ensues*

EDIT: spelling

[Alarra]

If a girl ever pick-pocketed me while she was hugging me, I might propose right there. Seriously, a girl who can manage what I am actively trying to learn? She could teach me! Heheh, I might "accidentally" take a while to master back-pocket pickpocketing though.

Pick-pocketing while hugging is definitely flirting in my book. I mean, come on, you're touching their butt! :smallwink: At least every time I've done this I've certainly been flirting. :smallsmile:

[Jibar]

I'm really worried about the number of people endorsing stealing here.
Come on, we have a lot of impressionable youths here, don't encorouge them to turn to the Dark Side like that. Teach them proper values, like safe sex and the best way to make toast.

[Glaivemaster]

I'm really worried about the number of people endorsing stealing here.
Come on, we have a lot of impressionable youths here, don't encorouge them to turn to the Dark Side like that. Teach them proper values, like safe sex and the best way to make toast.

Everyone knows that the best way to make toast is taking it from other people! Same with everything else you mentioned (don't ask me how it works, it just does)

Back to the flirting thing - I find that if I talk with a girl I like, I automatically flirt, even if I have no intention of trying to go out with her. Fortunately, this isn't so problematic as I so rarely talk to members of the opposite sex

[CurlyKitGirl]

Gah guys, assuming most of you know my situation I'm still having trouble thinking of weather or not I should ask her if she likes me. Should I ask directly or should I just try to see if she leaves any indication of it?

Ask her now.

[sktarq]

Pick-pocketing while hugging is definitely flirting in my book. I mean, come on, you're touching their butt! :smallwink: At least every time I've done this I've certainly been flirting. :smallsmile:

yeah every time girls nicked my notebooks (they live in my back pocket) they've been mad about me (why I don't know).

[Dragonrider]

Okay, guys, so I think I mentioned that my dad wrote me a song after my mom told him about my problems...and played it for me...well, last night he wrote me an email telling me to look in a certain folder on the desktop. Turns out he recorded an mp3 of the song. I just about started crying, it was so sweet of him.

I know you're lookin' around
And things don't look all that good to you
But don't go back underground
You've still got plenty of good to do

You know in all the wide world
There ain't no place like home
And people out there are scared
They're gonna end up alone

I know you set your sights high
You've been fillin' your heart with love
You're doin' all the right things
Sometimes it's just not enough

You've created a friendship
That can last your whole life
Though it don't seem like it now
It's worth this moment of strife

Though all the signs of the world
May say you're on the wrong track
Don't think of going back

Keep the word in your heart
Keep your feet on the road
Keep your eyes on the horizon
You can carry this load

Putting each brick in its place
One day you'll have a whole wall
Be confident there's no waste
Should even some of them fall

The ediface that you build
Will be a beauty to see
Though it will come at a cost
You know that nothin' is free

Yeah, you may lose what you want
Yeah, you may lose what you want
Though you may lose what you want
You'll surely find what you need
You'll find what you need

I know you're lookin' around
And things don't look all that good to you....

I guess it's kind of weird...I mean, my parents and I have always gotten along really well, but it's really cool to suddenly realize how much they care and that they really are there for me.

It's not like when you're young, and you think that your mom and dad can solve any problem with a snap of their fingers...but they can make your life a lot easier. This is kind of how my dad always communicates, through songs...when I was younger he and I used to fight a lot, and we got through it because he wrote me a song that made me go ...oh. Anyway, the advice he gave makes me feel a lot better.

[Sir_Norbert]

Wow. That song is pretty damn amazing. Well, it's making me cry, at least.

[zeratul]

That's really nice. Hooray for cool parents!

[Dragonrider]

Wow. That song is pretty damn amazing. Well, it's making me cry, at least.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. :)

[FdL]

I'm lucky I met a girl who was smart enough to realise that I liked her and wasn't going to make the next step without some "help" - one moment we were sitting in the park, the next she was lying on top of me and demonstrating this thing you earthlings call "kissing". :smallbiggrin:


Yeah, that's cool. Happened to me too, and I tell you, I have no problem in girls taking the initiative. Well, nowadays it's me who asks girls, I'm not that shy anymore (well, a bit). I try to make it as frontal



I, too, may have ignored obvious signals because I thought it impossible that a girl would be interested in me.

As for the nature of those "obvious signals", I do know what they are, I think everyone has seen enough movies and soap operas to see (admittedly, exaggerated) versions. I just never see it happening to me.


You're like me in that sense, I can relate with what you're saying.



The horrifying conclusion this leads me to is that no-one has ever flirted with me... I refuse to believe that is true, the personification of Deuterium's Self-Confidence has been fighting a losing battle for a long time, but he's not going down just yet.


It's probably just that you haven't noticed. If you hang out with people and meet people, there's a factual probability that some girl has been attracted to you in some degree, and that leads naturally to flirting. Even if just talking to girls, flirting happens naturally.

It would be cool to really know, without a doubt, when a girl is flirting with you. But you know what the key to this is? The fact that she's flirting might mean she likes you, but doesn't mean she's going to acknowledge it and act upon it. The thing is flirting is sometimes its own end. And sometimes girls (and guys too I guess) "just flirt". Which doesn't mean there isn't an attraction, but sometimes it doesn't go beyond it. I hope that came out clear :p


A break up is very rarely mutual. Even if one person agrees with the other, it is more on the lines of "OK we will split *underbreath* not that I have a lot of choice in this matter anyway".

Yeah, totally. It can't be mutual, because a breakup precisely implies that there is some agreement about the relationship that you cannot reach :p

I don't know if it's an euphemisim or a term someone invented to cover the fact that he/she's been dumped...

@Zeratul: I see you've been sitting on this. I totally understand you because that kind of thing happens to me too. But it seems to bug you at this point, which is a very good indication that you should do it ASAP. Otherwise it's just something you're keeping inside, and thinking it over and over won't solve it.

@AngelSword: Yay! ^^ You rule, go for it. She's so cute too, here's wishing it goes ok :)

[Rykaj]

It would be cool to really know, without a doubt, when a girl is flirting with you. But you know what the key to this is? The fact that she's flirting might mean she likes you, but doesn't mean she's going to acknowledge it and act upon it. The thing is flirting is sometimes its own end. And sometimes girls (and guys too I guess) "just flirt". Which doesn't mean there isn't an attraction, but sometimes it doesn't go beyond it. I hope that came out clear :p

Yep, the 'just flirt'. I do it alot, mainly just because it's fun and it's flattering if it works. The funny thing is the more often you do it you start figuring out that it's just a skill and like any skill, practicing alot helps improve!

That said, I think flirting here is a little more blunt here so we might have it easier. Hugs and kisses are just standard methods of communication, even the so-dubbed breasthug isn't that rare and definately not a shout-out in a football stadium. But I have to say:


Lesson 1: Use him as furniture

That's one of the most blatant uppercuts with the clue-club you can make. Really charming though, I'll admit that :smallredface:

[Vampiric]

Quote:
Lesson 1: Use him as furniture

That's one of the most blatant uppercuts with the clue-club you can make. Really charming though, I'll admit that :smallredface:

And, from a guy's point of view, we love it when a girl sits on our lap, especially if they are the one you're trying to flirt with intentionally.:smallbiggrin:

[Deuterium]

Lesson 1: Use him as furniture.

Come on, we want lesson two! :smallbiggrin:

[Xykon_Fan]

Come on, we want lesson two! :smallbiggrin:

Has every girl done lesson one yet? If not, I don't think Serp will start the next one...

Hey girls, I'm sure there are plenty of willing guys around here who would love to give you a hand with completing lesson one!

[Serpentine]

@^: How else would it be?

I'm breaking up with you.

Uhh, no.

*bad comedy skit then ensues*

Happened with a friend of mine, but replace "no" with "if you do I'll kill myself", and follow it up with "then I'm not eating until you break up with me" and the implementation of said threat. At least Goff and I are both aware of the situation, regardless of who wants what.

A lot of people want the lessons continued :smalleek: Hmm... >ponders back to active flirting duty...<
Ah, this should do -
Lesson 2: Offer/request massages, and/or/including hands or feet when, for example, sitting around or watching a movie (I used to do this when watching horror movies. Helped to distract me). This is helped by actually having some education in massage.

[Alarra]

Happened with a friend of mine, but replace "no" with "if you do I'll kill myself", and follow it up with "then I'm not eating until you break up with me" and the implementation of said threat. At least Goff and I are both aware of the situation, regardless of who wants what.

Been there, done that. Well, in any case, I've tried to break up with someone, had them threaten suicide, guilt me into staying another 3 months, try again, same threat, 1 more month, finally actually stick to my convictions and break up with them....have them actually attempt it and wind up in the hospital for awhile, leaving me feeling like it's entirely my fault. :smallfrown:

And on the topic of mutuality in breakups, it actually can be. Case in point...myself and Chris. We'd been unhappy for months, I'd decided near the end of March that he and I needed to break up, but didn't do anything about it. So when he decided to break up with me near the end of April, I was relieved. So yes, it can be mutual.


A lot of people want the lessons continued :smalleek: Hmm... >ponders back to active flirting duty...<
Ah, this should do -
Lesson 2: Offer/request massages, and/or/including hands or feet when, for example, sitting around or watching a movie (I used to do this when watching horror movies. Helped to distract me). This is helped by actually having some education in massage.

In my personal opinion, I don't like to request massages. If someone gives me a massage, unbidden, rockstar....but requesting it? Nay. And I don't generally offer, but rather, just give them one, while say, I'm standing behind their chair. People don't generally mind. :smalltongue:

But as far as the idea of massages as a form of flirting....even the slightest touching can have the same effect. Placing a hand on someone's arm while talking to them, or even casually moving your hand so that it's somewhat against them. However, keeping this in mind, I'm a rather touchy person in the majority of my relationships, friendships, boyfriends, flirtations in general. I touch and hug and pet people, just part of my personality I think. But really, I'm a very flirtatious person.

[The Great Skenardo]

Been there, done that. Well, in any case, I've tried to break up with someone, had them threaten suicide, guilt me into staying another 3 months, try again, same threat, 1 more month, finally actually stick to my convictions and break up with them....have them actually attempt it and wind up in the hospital for awhile, leaving me feeling like it's entirely my fault. :smallfrown:


Don't feel guilty about that sort of thing. Harming yourself to make someone else feel bad is the height of selfishness. It's unforgivable, in my book.

[Serpentine]

leaving me feeling like it's entirely my fault. :smallfrown:
It never, ever is. The most you could've done is suggest that if his happiness depended so heavily upon you, then he should have booked himself into a psych ward, and even then it's not your job to coddle him.


But as far as the idea of massages as a form of flirting....even the slightest touching can have the same effect. Placing a hand on someone's arm while talking to them, or even casually moving your hand so that it's somewhat against them. However, keeping this in mind, I'm a rather touchy person in the majority of my relationships, friendships, boyfriends, flirtations in general. I touch and hug and pet people, just part of my personality I think. But really, I'm a very flirtatious person.
Ah, which brings me to...

Lesson 3: Take any opportunity to touch or get close to them. Okay, don't go around squeezing their buttocks (unless that's the sort of friendship group you have...), but try to sit next to them when you can, share arm-rests, "accidently" touch their toes or fingers with yours... Um... oh, I don't know. Use your imagination. My now housemate and I once ambushed my now boyfriend when walking back from town, each of us claiming an arm. You might not want to be so bold, but you get the idea.
(of course, all this ties in to Lessons 1 and 2)

[Alarra]

Lesson 3: Take any opportunity to touch or get close to them. Okay, don't go around squeezing their buttocks (unless that's the sort of friendship group you have...), but try to sit next to them when you can, share arm-rests, "accidently" touch their toes or fingers with yours... Um... oh, I don't know. Use your imagination. My now housemate and I once ambushed my now boyfriend when walking back from town, each of us claiming an arm. You might not want to be so bold, but you get the idea.
(of course, all this ties in to Lessons 1 and 2)

Yes. And even if you aren't touching them, just standing or sitting near them whenever they are a member of the crowd you are with is a good indication of interest.

[The Great Skenardo]

Yep. My lady friend ended up taking the initiative by grabbing my hand as we were walking in a salt mine.

[Serpentine]

Yes. And even if you aren't touching them, just standing or sitting near them whenever they are a member of the crowd you are with is a good indication of interest.
Oi, you! Who's the Professor of Practical Flirtation around here?! =.=
...well, alright then, I've heard of your amorous conquests :smallwink: You can be Assisting Professor, I guess.

A salt mine... How romantic.

[SDF]

Yes. And even if you aren't touching them, just standing or sitting near them whenever they are a member of the crowd you are with is a good indication of interest.

Maybe, but I don't see why so many people think this circumspect behavior is a good indication of anything. If a person likes me and is just near me all the time I'm not going to get the hint... at all.

[Serpentine]

That's just part of the fun, and why there's more than one lesson in my curriculum.

[Ego Slayer]

Lesson 2: Offer/request massages, and/or/including hands or feet when, for example, sitting around or watching a movie (I used to do this when watching horror movies. Helped to distract me). This is helped by actually having some education in massage.
Massages = win. Receiving is better than giving. Am I right, or am I right? (I'm kidding, both are good) :smallwink:

You've got some education in it, eh? Coolness.

[Hell Puppi]

Ick I've got a wonderful hereditary problem where the muscles in my shoulders get tight. A few years ago i went to the doctor and the problem was so bad it was starting to pull my spine out alignment (who knew?).
So now I bug my male friends and my boyfriends for massages. Sooooo much better.
Back/shoulder massages...well I'd end it but it's kinda dirty.

[Zeb The Troll]

Maybe, but I don't see why so many people think this circumspect behavior is a good indication of anything. If a girl likes me and is just near me all the time I'm not going to get the hint... at all.I'm usually guilty of needing a clue bat but I'm getting better. It started when I was once told by a woman friend of mine that many of our mutual acquaintances had tried demonstrating an interest and I was oblivious. So I turned most of my "naah, couldn't be" observances into "hey, might be" and if I was also interested would try to return the favor. Worst case is misinterpreted gestures since this kind of stuff, even if unintentional, would at least indicate that they aren't repulsed by you, eh?

It worked with Alarra. I noticed occasional furtive glances. I noticed her being near me more often than all the other very fun and engaging people. (The bold print 'Dude, I think she's interested' was the couch incident at The Igloo/Rabbit Hole/Bunguin's Place*.) Sure, it could've been just shyness or the fact that I was doing the same thing. But when I asked my thought process was "hey, she doesn't hate you, right? even if she says 'sorry, no' she'll at least be kind about it."

The point of this? Maybe you're missing more flirting than you realize. Oh, and a dozen polite refusals is worth it for one enthusiastic 'yes'. :smallbiggrin:

*What are they calling it these days?

[SDF]

The point of this? Maybe you're missing more flirting than you realize.

Maybe, even so I like initiative. If I like someone I can usually tell them. If they like me and don't say anything their loss I suppose.

@V: And I probably wouldn't end up dating them. It isn't that I wouldn't it is a problem of communication.

[Dragonrider]

:smallamused: Some people (yours truly included) are WAY too shy and/or low-confidence to do this.

[Logic]

:smallamused: Some people (yours truly included) are WAY too shy and/or low-confidence to do this.
I am one of the extremely shy types as well, and most females are not as agressive with me as I would like.

All but one of my girlfriends were way more outgoing than I was, and I only initiated it with the most shy of them. But then again, I thought she needed a clue bat to get my flirting, truth be told, she got it even before I had figured it out, she was waiting for an actual "Hey, I like you" message.

[Hell Puppi]

Shy people need a clear message...otherwise we just kind of guess as to "maybe??".

[Alarra]

(The bold print 'Dude, I think she's interested' was the couch incident at The Igloo/Rabbit Hole/Bunguin's Place*.)

Wait.....what was the couch incident? :smallredface:

[Zeb The Troll]

Wait.....what was the couch incident? :smallredface:Let me set the scene...

We're at PenguinSushi and BardicBunny's place on the last day. We have much good cookout food and are congregating in the living room. I take a seat on a fairly uncomfortable footstool thing at the end of the coffee table. You and Gitman00 were sitting on the couch.

Zeb: Damn, Sushi, this thing isn't very comfortable. :smallsmile:
Sushi: Well, why are you sitting on it then, goober? :smalltongue:
Zeb: I didn't feel like standing any-
Alarra: (presses up against the arm of the couch to make room) There's plenty of room here, Zeb! :smallredface: (pats the cushion next to her)

[Dragonrider]

Everyone - one, two, three:

AWWW!

[Alarra]

Oh right, that 'couch incident'. :smalltongue:
I wouldn't say I 'pressed against the arm to make room'....there really was plenty of room next to me. :smallwink: and I believe my actual words were..."You could sit here you know.."

[Xykon_Fan]

Awww....darn...I missed the count...

To make up for it! Double awww!

[Zeb The Troll]

Oh right, that 'couch incident'. :smalltongue:
I wouldn't say I 'pressed against the arm to make room'....there really was plenty of room next to me. :smallwink: and I believe my actual words were..."You could sit here you know.."Whatever. You remember it your way and I'll remember it mine. :smalltongue:

[Alarra]

Ah but see, mine's right. :smallwink:

[Logic]

Ah but see, mine's right. :smallwink:

Zeb, you have already lost. Just aknowledge this, and things will be easier until she declares a win at a later date.

[Zeb The Troll]

Zeb, you have already lost. Just aknowledge this, and things will be easier until she declares a win at a later date.Au contraire, mon frer. I've won. It doesn't matter whose recollection is the more accurate. What matters is that I perceived a reciprocated attraction, which I acted on and that action received a positive response. To that end, so has she, whether her action was intentional or not, since we're now together and are very happy about it. :smallbiggrin:

[mudbunny]

To all you guys out there who worry that you don't get flirting, and can't talk to girls/women. Have faith, it will come to you in time. Flirting is not meant to be serious. It is all for fun. Have fun with it, and pay attention to the responses to your phrases. It takes practice, but it does all work out.

Take me for example. More than once, I have had female friends remark to me that I was "utterly clueless" and "how could you not notice that she was flirting with you". Most of it stemmed from a belief that I still partially hold today that I am simply not that attractive. However, things change.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/mbeau/Alien0001.jpg

This is inside my wife's tummy. We don't know whether it is a boy or a girl, it kept spinning and moving too much, but it certainly is active.

S/he is supposed to make an appearance near the end of october sometime.

[Jibar]

I'm this close to crying right now...
Congratulations to ye, congratulations to ye, you're having a babeeeeeee, congratulations to ye.


I want a baby :smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

...
Too... many jokes... Clogging brain... causing... Shatner-like speech... patterns.

Mudbunny, I count... 5 excellent points in your post. Bravo.

[mudbunny]

I mentioned this in the previous thread, but it was shortly before it got modded so I will repost it here.

I was shy in high school. I was the nerd in high school. I was the geek in high school. I was teased, until people needed help with homework, then I was a temporary friend.

My first date, ever was at my high school prom (17 years old was I, no kiss was there).
My second date was 6 years later, in my first year of grad school. We went out for about 4 years, before she decided that she needed some time to find out who she was. (Fair enough)

While I was recovering from the devastation (I had just dropped $1.5k on a trip to see her over christmas), I learned a couple of things about meeting women.

Women notice if you are desperately looking for a relationship. Most women will avoid you in this situation. While soap operas show women going out with really needy guys and it working, real life isn't a soap opera.

The next stage I got to, after you are done being desperate, is the "I don't care if I don't have a girlfriend." While this is slightly more attractive to women, it still tends to turn a number of them off. Women want someone who will want them.

The ideal stage to get to is "I am happy with myself, whether I have a girlfriend or not." Confidence in yourself, and a knowledge of who you really are, will get women interested in you more than most other techniques combined in my opinion.

Another important point. Go out and do things. Ultimate Frisbee, pick-up soccer, ball-room dancing, latin dancing (you have no idea how much being able to dance a foxtrot/salsa/mambo/waltz/etc helps).

Meet people. Women will not come knocking on your door to ask you out. They don't know that you are there. You say you are uncomfortable doing that sort of thing. Oh well.

Deal with it!! It is very close to a binary solution set:


If you go out, you meet people.
If you don't go out, you don't meet people.

Your friends will help, but you need to take steps yourself as well.

[Holy_Knight]

Oddly, I get this behavior almost exclusively from my married female friends. :smalleek: I really don't think they're coming on to me! But, y'know, who am I to say for sure... :smallredface:

Hmm, well, I guess them being married could change things, since they might also do that kind of hug if they view you in a brotherly way. But I still maintain that if a single girl gives that kind of hug to a single guy, it seems like obvious flirting.



For my part, there's no way the breasts aren't going to get in the way of a hug. They're not detachable.
True, but some girls are very conscious about this, and so either give sort of side hugs, or hugs where she sort of leans forward so you're touching near the shoulders, but your chests have space between them.


Pick-pocketing while hugging is definitely flirting in my book. I mean, come on, you're touching their butt! :smallwink: At least every time I've done this I've certainly been flirting. :smallsmile:
Actually, I keep everything in my front pockets rather than my back ones... so yeah, that would come across as pretty flirtatious to me.


Okay, guys, so I think I mentioned that my dad wrote me a song after my mom told him about my problems...and played it for me...well, last night he wrote me an email telling me to look in a certain folder on the desktop. Turns out he recorded an mp3 of the song. I just about started crying, it was so sweet of him.

I know you're lookin' around
And things don't look all that good to you
But don't go back underground
You've still got plenty of good to do

You know in all the wide world
There ain't no place like home
And people out there are scared
They're gonna end up alone

I know you set your sights high
You've been fillin' your heart with love
You're doin' all the right things
Sometimes it's just not enough

You've created a friendship
That can last your whole life
Though it don't seem like it now
It's worth this moment of strife

Though all the signs of the world
May say you're on the wrong track
Don't think of going back

Keep the word in your heart
Keep your feet on the road
Keep your eyes on the horizon
You can carry this load

Putting each brick in its place
One day you'll have a whole wall
Be confident there's no waste
Should even some of them fall

The ediface that you build
Will be a beauty to see
Though it will come at a cost
You know that nothin' is free

Yeah, you may lose what you want
Yeah, you may lose what you want
Though you may lose what you want
You'll surely find what you need
You'll find what you need

I know you're lookin' around
And things don't look all that good to you....

I guess it's kind of weird...I mean, my parents and I have always gotten along really well, but it's really cool to suddenly realize how much they care and that they really are there for me.

It's not like when you're young, and you think that your mom and dad can solve any problem with a snap of their fingers...but they can make your life a lot easier. This is kind of how my dad always communicates, through songs...when I was younger he and I used to fight a lot, and we got through it because he wrote me a song that made me go ...oh. Anyway, the advice he gave makes me feel a lot better.
That's really cool, Dragonrider. It sounds like you have a great relationship with your parents. :smallsmile:


Yep. My lady friend ended up taking the initiative by grabbing my hand as we were walking in a salt mine.
Wait--you were really in a salt mine?


I'm usually guilty of needing a clue bat but I'm getting better. It started when I was once told by a woman friend of mine that many of our mutual acquaintances had tried demonstrating an interest and I was oblivious.
Heh, one time I was semi-bemoaning the fact that I was single, and my friend starts telling me how I've got plenty of prospects: "I mean, I've seen lots of girls giving you 'the look'." So of course, I was like: "What?! why didn't you tell me?" Ah well.



Meet people. Women will not come knocking on your door to ask you out. They don't know that you are there. You say you are uncomfortable doing that sort of thing. Oh well.

Deal with it!! It is very close to a binary solution set:


If you go out, you meet people.
If you don't go out, you don't meet people.

Your friends will help, but you need to take steps yourself as well.
I don't know, what about that commercial where the guy is telling his friend he feels lonely, and the girl falls into his outstrectched arms? That could probably totally happen all the time in real life. :smalltongue:

Anyway, congratulations on the new addition to your family, mudbunny. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Heh, one time I was semi-bemoaning the fact that I was single, and my friend starts telling me how I've got plenty of prospects: "I mean, I've seen lots of girls giving you 'the look'." So of course, I was like: "What?! why didn't you tell me?" Ah well.

Me too. Dammit people, if someone's paying attention to me, I want to know! Don't think it happens very often though, anyway.

[Rykaj]

Women notice if you are desperately looking for a relationship. Most women will avoid you in this situation. While soap operas show women going out with really needy guys and it working, real life isn't a soap opera.

This is very true. Everytime I was around looking for a girl I wasn't getting anywhere. But when it did happen, there were loads of opportunities directly after it. Example: After I first kissed my current girlfriend, I got four other pretty direct opportunities in that same week (I don't know why, my hair probably looked GREAT that week). And it has happened at other times as well. Good thing I didn't fall for those, cause my girlfriend is totally awesome. :smallredface: ("ewww, you slimeball!")

I've seen it happen to friends of mine as well. So, since this seem to happen so often, I was wondering, do women actually have a radar to know when a guy is nearly committing himself to someone else? And if so, what makes that guy suddenly so hot?

[Quincunx]

The guy no longer stinks of desperation. [EDIT: This is not wholly a metaphor. Desperation smells like the soft spots in an onion.] It's not an improvement but a removal of the negative.

[ZombieRockStar]

Receiving is better than giving. Am I right, or am I right?

No. :smalltongue:

[mudbunny]

I've seen it happen to friends of mine as well. So, since this seem to happen so often, I was wondering, do women actually have a radar to know when a guy is nearly committing himself to someone else? And if so, what makes that guy suddenly so hot?

When you are close to committing yourself to a relationship, you become confident in yourself, and happy with the world. You no longer worry "what if I never..." "How come no-one ever..." "What is wrong with me/my..." and various other thoughts like that.

[jazz1m]

I also think that besides the whole confidence thing (maybe) is the fact that they can no longer have that guy . It happens a lot male or female. You didn't want it when you could have it, but now that it's gone you want it.

[Syka]

Actually, that stuff happened to me. Once I got with the guy I had been dating, I had many more oppurtunities present themselves, and not all of said oppurtunities new I was semi-taken. I do believe a lot of it is a confidence thing.

Cheers,
Syka...of to study...

[FdL]

This is very true. Everytime I was around looking for a girl I wasn't getting anywhere. But when it did happen, there were loads of opportunities directly after it. Example: After I first kissed my current girlfriend, I got four other pretty direct opportunities in that same week (I don't know why, my hair probably looked GREAT that week). And it has happened at other times as well. Good thing I didn't fall for those, cause my girlfriend is totally awesome. :smallredface: ("ewww, you slimeball!")

I've seen it happen to friends of mine as well. So, since this seem to happen so often, I was wondering, do women actually have a radar to know when a guy is nearly committing himself to someone else? And if so, what makes that guy suddenly so hot?

Yeaaaaah! That is so true it's disturbing. I'm going to have to go with the theory that there's something they perceive without knowing. I don't know how to call it. But it happens a lot, women seem to do that.

Maybe it's because seeing you close to someone suddenly makes them think you must be worth something if any human being agrees to be with you (that's my low self esteem typing right now, he does these things often, hogs the keyboard for months.)

And Mudbunny, it's true that you have to go out to meet people. It really doesn't happen much if you don't. I know 'cause it's happening to me :s I'd like to go out to pubs and all that nightlife thing, but it really isn't my thing. I know that's one of the best way to meet girls, but I feel awkward if I go alone, and I don't have friends to go out with.

Though truth be said, not long ago I met a girl 100% through internet chat, and we hit it off, then we met and everything. It was great while it lasted. I might tell of this fully so we can all analyze it. It's not so gruesome, but it's an example of how weird people can act (she did).


The guy no longer stinks of desperation. [EDIT: This is not wholly a metaphor. Desperation smells like the soft spots in an onion.] It's not an improvement but a removal of the negative.

Oh. Good tip. It's probably true, too. They should come up with something that hides that particular stink. Damn science, always falling behind.:smallconfused:

[Thrawn183]

Ah, the stink of malcontent(edness?). I've certainly noticed noticing how attractive women just starting relationships are. I think it has to do with your brain being forced to associate dating and that person. Normally, I can afford to be somewhat apathetic when it comes to evaluating attractiveness, but when someone tells me they just got asked out, my brain immediately asks why and then starts coming up with answers.

[AngelSword]

Alright, so I didn't let myself talk myself out of going up to see her.

I drove up to the camp at which she works, but there were two camps at the same location. After finding out that I had gone back too far (to the other camp), I backtracked to the first site, and found out that she wasn't going to show up until around 7 that night.

Well, given that, I tried to catch her at her house. I hopped in my car and drove another hour back down to her house. No luck. I get there, and there's no one home. It was then that she responded to a text that she just came back from Pennsylvania, and was already back up at camp.

Great. I jump back on the road, and 40 minutes later, I was back at the camp. This time, a little waiting paid off, as I saw her coming up one of the paths. She asked me what I was doing up here, and I told her, "Well, I have something to give you." I went to my car, grabbed the lilies, and presented her with them.

Lo and behold, her favorite flower is the lily.

We went back to her cabin so that she could get them into water. We walked, we talked, we "accidentally" brushed against one another. When we get back to her cabin, I noticed the wooden roses I had given her were displayed (rather prominently) on her dresser.

After talking for a bit in her room, she showed me all around the camp, introduced me to the few people we came across, and then went back and talked in her room again.

Around 6 PM, she informs me that a bunch of the staff is going to dinner, and that she had to get to work after that. So, we slowly head back to the office (where I am parked), and we get ready to say goodbye.

Ok, this is it. My last chance.

We hug goodbye, but neither of us move. Finally getting my courage up, I pull her close, put my hands on her sides, and lean down for the kiss (and I do mean, lean down. I'm 6'1" and she's 4'9"). But she turns away. Looking up at me with a smile, she says, "We'll talk later."

Edit: I forgot to mention that, as I made the attempt, there were people around.

So here I am. Waiting. Hoping I hadn't put her off.

[Hell Puppi]

'Twas worth a shot, good sir.

[Zeb The Troll]

Just a guess, from your story, but I don't think she'd have turned away if you'd tried in the privacy of her room. Probably not even if it had been anywhere but at a camp where they have to be extra conscious of setting a good example. At the very least it sounds like you'll get an explanation in the near future but since you say she smiled as she turned away I don't think it'll be one you'll mind hearing. :smallsmile:

[AngelSword]

Warning: Gut-wrenching sappiness ensues

Well, I know what I want to say to her. I want to tell her that I'm absolutely crazy about her. I long for the weekends when she comes home, if only to see here for a scant few moments. I would travel across town, across the state, or even across the country to see here. I miss here terribly, even after just seeing her. I love watching her sleep next to me, as I wonder what I did to deserve her company. I can lie with her for hours.

She healed my dark and cold heart when I felt unworthy of human compassion. She stares at me with those clear, icy blue eyes, and I lose myself. Her touch sends shivers down my spine. I hang on her every word, even the mundane ones.

Even now, if it wouldn't come off as me being overbearing, I'd drive up to the camp again, just to see her. Truth be told, if I never saw another woman, so long as I live, I'd be more than happy.

[Qooroo]

Warning: Gut-wrenching sappiness ensues

Really, that's the best kind of sappiness. Good luck! [/returns to casual lurking]

[mudbunny]

Alright, so I didn't let myself talk myself out of going up to see her.

I drove up to the camp at which she works, but there were two camps at the same location. After finding out that I had gone back too far (to the other camp), I backtracked to the first site, and found out that she wasn't going to show up until around 7 that night.

Well, given that, I tried to catch her at her house. I hopped in my car and drove another hour back down to her house. No luck. I get there, and there's no one home. It was then that she responded to a text that she just came back from Pennsylvania, and was already back up at camp.

Great. I jump back on the road, and 40 minutes later, I was back at the camp. This time, a little waiting paid off, as I saw her coming up one of the paths. She asked me what I was doing up here, and I told her, "Well, I have something to give you." I went to my car, grabbed the lilies, and presented her with them.

Lo and behold, her favorite flower is the lily.

We went back to her cabin so that she could get them into water. We walked, we talked, we "accidentally" brushed against one another. When we get back to her cabin, I noticed the wooden roses I had given her were displayed (rather prominently) on her dresser.

After talking for a bit in her room, she showed me all around the camp, introduced me to the few people we came across, and then went back and talked in her room again.

Around 6 PM, she informs me that a bunch of the staff is going to dinner, and that she had to get to work after that. So, we slowly head back to the office (where I am parked), and we get ready to say goodbye.

Ok, this is it. My last chance.

We hug goodbye, but neither of us move. Finally getting my courage up, I pull her close, put my hands on her sides, and lean down for the kiss (and I do mean, lean down. I'm 6'1" and she's 4'9"). But she turns away. Looking up at me with a smile, she says, "We'll talk later."

Edit: I forgot to mention that, as I made the attempt, there were people around.

So here I am. Waiting. Hoping I hadn't put her off.

You made the attempt, and there were lots of people around. I figure that, for a first kiss, and assuming that she was sober, you probably had about a 30% chance of actually getting more than you got.

She didn't back away, she didn't make an excuse to get away from you. I think your attempt went very well.

[MountainKing]

I guess, maybe this isn't appropriate for this thread (perhaps belonging in the Depression thread instead), but it's related to both. Short of the long: I've pretty much given up on women; from what I've been taught, via lesson of expirience, women are a complete waste of time that, apparently, everyone gets to sink time into but myself. Call it an inferiority complex, call it what you will, but... I'm just invisible to women, somehow.

I have a large number of female friends (probably more than male ones...), and they span the spectrum. Taken, single, straight, lesbian, big, small, what have you. They all have one thing in common: they have all asked me the "Why DON'T you have a girlfriend?" question, but thus far, nobody wants to be it. Supposedly, I'm handsome, fun to hang out with, and a great listener, even if at times I can be disturbingly insightful about things that have absolutely zero connection to me. I don't see any of those things.

Something I like to throw out a lot when I'm talking friends through the choppy waters of breakup is, "There're six billion people on this planet; heck, more than six billion. You think that you're the only person out there that's like you? That he/she's the only person out there like them?"

It's one of those things that I can apply to anyone but myself, just like I can put on my game face when I wake up in the morning and be physically/emotionally strong for everyone around me, up until I find myself alone.

I guess... what do you guys use to maybe get you out of the deep, dark pit of despair that is being lonely? Is there anything?

[Syka]

First, have you been interested in any of these female friends? If so, have you tried to do anything about it? When you are interested in a woman, do you try to make an effort to let her know?

I used to be in your situation, and it wasn't until after my ex and I broke up that I found guys in general to be interested in me, or at least willing to tell me (my ex was the only guy until I was 19 to show romantic interest in me). I think what was different is I was no longer concerned with having to be part of a couple. I was happy, single or taken. I was happy with me.

If you are there, then make an effort to persue women you are interested in. There are very few women who will openly persue a guy, mostly because we've been conditioned by society that men like the chase and need to be the initiators (and yes, even I fall prey to this...and, oddly, I've found that guys tend to respond more to it).

Hope that helped some.



AS, good job! Judging from her reaction, she didn't mind other than the fact there were other people around and it was at her job. ;) But good going for you.

Cheers,
Syka

[MountainKing]

Every time I fall for someone, I bring it up somehow. I'm a theatre major wannabe who tears apart English majors' papers for kicks, talking to women isn't the problem... it's just, so ridiculously hopeless.

Nothing I say, to anyone, has ever succeeded. The only actual, full on girlfriend that I had, only kept me around for a month, and I suspect to this day that the only reason she did so was because I was vulnerable, naive, and available for various carnal activities. I let her break my heart twice before tearing her out of my life and refusing to ever speak to her again, and that part helped... but now I'm still here, with a giant empty place in my chest where she used to be.

To quote Glottis from what is my favorite adventure puzzle game of all time, "It's like someone reached in my chest *plorp*, pulled out my heart *splortch*, and threw it into the woods! *faint*"

[magicwalker]

Bah, society stinks! I'd take a girl that takes action and knows what she wants, hands down. Screw the chase! *bah humbug*

EDIT:

@^: One day you'll find someone who will that will make you realize why it didn't work out with anyone else.

[mudbunny]

I guess, maybe this isn't appropriate for this thread (perhaps belonging in the Depression thread instead), but it's related to both. Short of the long: I've pretty much given up on women; from what I've been taught, via lesson of expirience, women are a complete waste of time that, apparently, everyone gets to sink time into but myself. Call it an inferiority complex, call it what you will, but... I'm just invisible to women, somehow.

Warning: No punches pulled below.

The fact that you are walking around with this opinion is, more than likely, what is causing women who don't know you, to run from you like you were Pee Wee Herman. As I mentioned above, normal, sane women do not find men walking around with a hockey-sock full of self-pity.


I have a large number of female friends (probably more than male ones...), and they span the spectrum. Taken, single, straight, lesbian, big, small, what have you. They all have one thing in common: they have all asked me the "Why DON'T you have a girlfriend?" question, but thus far, nobody wants to be it. Supposedly, I'm handsome, fun to hang out with, and a great listener, even if at times I can be disturbingly insightful about things that have absolutely zero connection to me. I don't see any of those things.

It is the most difficult thing to see in ourselves the qualities that others see in us. Keep in mind that the more people say this, the less likely they are saying it to humor you and the more likely it is true.


I guess... what do you guys use to maybe get you out of the deep, dark pit of despair that is being lonely? Is there anything?

I realized that feeling sorry for myself that I didn't have a gf was exactly what was keeping me from having a girlfriend.

[MountainKing]

That sounds really good, but everything I've seen and felt shows me that it's simply untrue; it's to the point where... well, pretend that you're on a school playground, and the kids are picking teams for kickball... but you're the one really chubby, nerdy kid that smells weird and wears giant block glass.

The metaphor is weird, but it works, and I hope it doesn't offend, because I was that kid in real life. The difference now is that instead of a lonely kid, I'm a lonely, bitter man who doesn't have any real optimism left in him.

EDIT for ^: Unless women actually CAN read minds (and I've yet to meet one who really could), they don't actually get to see this side of me. I'm my own warped little mirror, where anyone standing behind me can see what they're supposed to see, and I can still see the person who's hiding behind illusions of stability and contentment.

[mudbunny]

That sounds really good, but everything I've seen and felt shows me that it's simply untrue; it's to the point where... well, pretend that you're on a school playground, and the kids are picking teams for kickball... but you're the one really chubby, nerdy kid that smells weird and wears giant block glass.

Been there, done that. Except replace the chubby kid with glasses with the really smart kid with glasses who always has his hands up in class to answer the teacher's questions.


EDIT for ^: Unless women actually CAN read minds (and I've yet to meet one who really could), they don't actually get to see this side of me. I'm my own warped little mirror, where anyone standing behind me can see what they're supposed to see, and I can still see the person who's hiding behind illusions of stability and contentment.

No matter how well you think you are hiding it, you will still be giving off vibes of unpleasantness that people will sense.

[MountainKing]

Been there, done that. Except replace the chubby kid with glasses with the really smart kid with glasses who always has his hands up in class to answer the teacher's questions.



No matter how well you think you are hiding it, you will still be giving off vibes of unpleasantness that people will sense.

To the first part, I too was a front row wonderboy. Guilty as charged. As for the second part, when you say people, do you mean females, who tend to be more perceptive than males? Because I know for a fact that none of my mates can actually tell I'm running on high tension/low tolerance until I'm two seconds from blowing up about it, which usually gives them just enough time to try and avert tragedy.

[mudbunny]

To the first part, I too was a front row wonderboy. Guilty as charged.

Things change. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you??


As for the second part, when you say people, do you mean females, who tend to be more perceptive than males? Because I know for a fact that none of my mates can actually tell I'm running on high tension/low tolerance until I'm two seconds from blowing up about it, which usually gives them just enough time to try and avert tragedy.

Males, on average, tend to be generally clueless when it comes to the internal feelings and problems of others. Not intentionally, I just think that it is something with how we are wired and how society has conditioned us to be. (John Wayne, Clint Eastwood)

Women, OTOH, tend to be more in touch with their emotions. They are also more perceptive, IMO, when it comes to others that they are dealing with.

[MountainKing]

Things change. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you??



Males, on average, tend to be generally clueless when it comes to the internal feelings and problems of others. Not intentionally, I just think that it is something with how we are wired and how society has conditioned us to be. (John Wayne, Clint Eastwood)

Women, OTOH, tend to be more in touch with their emotions. They are also more perceptive, IMO, when it comes to others that they are dealing with.

Twenty; child of the nineties, represent. :smalltongue:

What you've got to say makes a great deal of sense, but therein lies another problem. My brain and my heart seldom reconcile, and they never do so on things like this. I need to change how I feel, and not how I think, because my school of thought includes "believing is more powerful than knowing".

[Dragonrider]

Women, OTOH, tend to be more in touch with their emotions. They are also more perceptive, IMO, when it comes to others that they are dealing with.

On the other hand, we have a tendency to read WAY too much into things....:smalltongue: Guys like it pretty simple and straightforward, "You like me? I like you. Cool." Women's games irritate me, too, come to think of it...it feels too much like cat-and-mouse.

[MountainKing]

On the other hand, we have a tendency to read WAY too much into things....:smalltongue: Guys like it pretty simple and straightforward, "You like me? I like you. Cool." Women's games irritate me, too, come to think of it...it feels too much like cat-and-mouse.

I'm not sure what is more frustrating; when women say men are too complicated, or trying to play the same games women do...

[mudbunny]

Twenty; child of the nineties, represent. :smalltongue:

What you've got to say makes a great deal of sense, but therein lies another problem. My brain and my heart seldom reconcile, and they never do so on things like this. I need to change how I feel, and not how I think, because my school of thought includes "believing is more powerful than knowing".

It is one of those things that are easier said than done.

What you need to do is to shift your thinking from "I will never get a girlfriend" to "Whenever it happens, it happens".

Trust me. As someone who didn't actually find a first girlfriend 'till sometime around the middle of grad school (early 20s), it will happen. In the mean time, don't worry about it.

Do things that you enjoy. Do physical things to get yourself in shape. Ultimate Frisbee, soccer, biking, roller blading, jogging, hiking. Try new things that you have never done before. Ballroom/Latin dancing for example. (If you know how to ballroom dance or latin dance, and have an opportunity to show it off, you are golden with the ladies, and the ladies in here will confirm that for me I am sure. Heck, if you show that you are learning how to ballroom/latin dance, they will look at you differently.)

Whatever you do, keep two things in mind:


Do things that don't keep you thinking about why you don't have a girlfriend
Do things that have you meeting other people.



I'm not sure what is more frustrating; when women say men are too complicated, or trying to play the same games women do...

Don't try to play the games that women do. It can only lead to trouble. (Most) Men are not built, emotionally, for it. Just the same, (most) women are not emotionally built for the emotional detachment most men feel.

[Dragonrider]

I'm not sure what is more frustrating; when women say men are too complicated, or trying to play the same games women do...

Men aren't complicated. They just make US go all complicated. :smallbiggrin:

There's a reason I prefer hanging out with guys to girls. Life is way easier. And I can't stand all the gossip.

[MountainKing]

I lift weights, and walk to work every day... other than that, I typically dislike any other forms of working out. I'll walk all over town, but other than that and lifting weights, I find myself pretty much set. ...of course, I suppose it doesn't help that I hate dancing with a passion too... :smallfrown:

This will sound ridiculous, but here goes. I'm 6' 1/2" tall, 345 lbs (and that's with a lot of weight lost and then gained as muscle since high school), and yet... I am terrified of dancing in a group/public setting.

[mudbunny]

I lift weights, and walk to work every day... other than that, I typically dislike any other forms of working out. I'll walk all over town, but other than that and lifting weights, I find myself pretty much set. ...of course, I suppose it doesn't help that I hate dancing with a passion too... :smallfrown:

Most of the activities that you are doing (walking, working out) are very solitary activities. That greatly limits the possibilities of meeting new people. All I can do is recommend trying something new, more team oriented. It is what I ended up doing and how I met my wife. It is not something that is easy to do, to change your lifestyle/habits like that, but it will make things so much easier.

As for dancing, why do you hate dancing?? Learning to dance, especially the latin dances and some of the classical dances, is a very good aerobic workout. (More than once I would come home from an hour-long class sweating)


This will sound ridiculous, but here goes. I'm 6' 1/2" tall, 345 lbs (and that's with a lot of weight lost and then gained as muscle since high school), and yet... I am terrified of dancing in a group/public setting.

I am not exactly terrified, yet I am fairly self conscious, so it isn't much easier for me.

[Vampiric]

Hmmm... @mudbunny: I don't know if the assumption that women are more perceptive than men is actually true. I know that I, personally, have a wierd tendency to be able to 'read' people, as do some of my male friends... Maybe it's just us:smallwink:. However, listen to mudbunny's piece of advice (post #386) carefully, MountainKing, it's true beyond your imagination. Also, like mudbunny said, the 'vibes' you give off say more than you can cover up. I know. I tried the covering up of emotions and depression:smallannoyed:. It doesn't work, I can say from experience of both sides.

Dragonrider, I would agree with you in general. But when a guy makes things complicated, not even a female can sort it out!:smallamused:

[mudbunny]

Hmmm... @mudbunny: I don't know if the assumption that women are more perceptive than men is actually true. I know that I, personally, have a wierd tendency to be able to 'read' people, as do some of my male friends... Maybe it's just us:smallwink:.

It's overall. There are males that are in touch with their emotions, just as there are women that are emotionally clueless. On average, my statement holds true however.

[MountainKing]

As for dancing, why do you hate dancing??

So am I.

I hate it because it terrifies me... I grew up doing a lot of reading. Kids my age were reading Goosebumps, I was reading Poe and King... those things don't frighten me anymore, but dancing? Jesus, you want to watch an ogre turn into a baby, tell me that you're about to pull me onto a dance floor.

You're also terrified of dancing, or you're also an ogre?

[mudbunny]

I hate it because it terrifies me... I grew up doing a lot of reading. Kids my age were reading Goosebumps, I was reading Poe and King... those things don't frighten me anymore, but dancing? Jesus, you want to watch an ogre turn into a baby, tell me that you're about to pull me onto a dance floor.

You're also terrified of dancing, or you're also an ogre?

Check my edit, I had to rephrase it.

While I am not terrified of dancing, I am very much an introvert with a self-confidence problem when it comes to things like that. (Am I making a fool of myself?? Will they laugh at me when I am not looking? Will they feel pity for me?)

Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and do it.

[zeratul]

As for dancing, why do you hate dancing?? Learning to dance, especially the latin dances and some of the classical dances, is a very good aerobic workout. (More than once I would come home from an hour-long class sweating)
.

Heh, only type of dancing I wouldn't look like an idiot doing is the goth shuffly type dancing. Also did you take your name from the band Mudhoney by any chance?

[MountainKing]

I can try anything else you've suggested, but dancing... that's a big 10-4 on the "No, uh uh". :smallfrown: Superman can't handle kryptonite tipped JHP rounds, I can't handle dancing. Especially in large ballroom-like settings.

[mudbunny]

Heh, only type of dancing I wouldn't look like an idiot doing is the goth shuffly type dancing. Also did you take your name from the band Mudhoney by any chance?

Nope. From some mudsliding I did after a dragon-boat race a couple of years ago.


I can try anything else you've suggested, but dancing... that's a big 10-4 on the "No, uh uh". Superman can't handle kryptonite tipped JHP rounds, I can't handle dancing. Especially in large ballroom-like settings.

Than do something else. But it needs to be something public where you interact with people.

[MountainKing]

Thanks for taking the time to talk to me, mate... you've earned my respect, at least. I'll try doing the things you suggested, and maybe, if I can get some support from my friends, I'll go try dancing too.

[mudbunny]

Thanks for taking the time to talk to me, mate... you've earned my respect, at least. I'll try doing the things you suggested, and maybe, if I can get some support from my friends, I'll go try dancing too.

Your first foray into dancing doesn't need to be a big ballroom. If you go to lessons (and most places will give you a free lesson to try it out) they will be in a dance classroom, 40 feet squarish. If you take beginners lessons, you won't feel out of place. there will be people better than you (I am much better than my wife, despite the fact that i have *no* sense of natural rhythm when it comes to dancing).

I can almost guarantee that there will be some female friends of yours who have been wanting to try dance lessons, but who have never had someone to go with.

[Syka]

Yes, ask around with your female friends. I'd been wanting to take dance lessons forever but a lack of funds and people to do it with kind of put a damper on it, until I got up to school, where I currently do bellydancing. Planning on trying Salsa out soon.

Trust me, this is coming from the girl with two left feet. If you take a class with beginners it can be really enjoyable, because pretty much EVERYONE is making mistakes. :smallsmile: I'd say doing dance classes is probably a really good way to meet women.

Since you are my age, are you going to school? If so, I can suggest many different things to try out.

As for perceptive, I don't think it's that women are more preceptive necessarily. One thing I tell people about what has attracted me to the guys I'm attracted to is their bearing- how they carry themselves and interact with others. There are subtle changes when you are not happy all the time that, no matter how hard you try and hide, people will subconciously pick up on. I've been watching my male friends lately, and I've seen how that sort of thing varies between the ones I know are content and confident versus the ones that are still self-concious and insecure.

I mean, I didn't know until a couple weeks ago that stuff I was doing made the guy I was dating upset...Because he wouldn't tell me and would "get over it quick" (which I still have no clue what I evidently did, 'cause he can't remember). I'm not always perceptive, like in those cases, but sometimes there are just things you can pick up on.

Cheers,
Syka

[MountainKing]

Yes, I'm going to school right now (or will be once I figure out what in the Nine Hells I'm going to do now that they've screwed over my program :smallfurious:), and I also pay a bajillion different bills, and to top it all off, I live half an hour away from anywhere interesting.

That last thing is really what makes things the hardest.

[Syka]

Well, college and universities are the best ways to get involved. Check out the clubs and organizations. If you have Facebook, look for stuff on there- it's how I found the gaming club for my school. Basically, just go and do stuff. :)

Oh, check out if you have any "Group Fitness" things at your schools gym. The few I went to were pretty much girls, with like 2 guys. That is a ratio of around 10:1. :smallwink: You're odds are good, and you'd probably also find a fitness minded lady that way.

Cheers,
Syka

[MountainKing]

Well, I'm already part of my college's game... horde. We're way too big to be a "group". Hell, the M:TG players alone number in with at least a dozen people (myself included).

As for the fitness groups, I intend to start working out this semester with a mate of mine from my menagerie of freaklike friends (God I love college; the people are so chaotic), but as for meeting a fitness minded woman, I doubt it. I smoke to scare away the soccer momlettes. :smalltongue:

[jazz1m]

so wait you smoke but also works out, doesn't that kind of cancel the whole working out part?

I would have to say that college is really the easiest time to meet anyone and make friends. There are people who share your interests and once you are in college people don't really care so much about cliques. Plus you don't need a girlfriend/boyfriend to have a good time, college itself is fun, at least from my experience. So live it up. Go out to bars, start some conversations with random people, start your own college group. When I was in college I started a hide&seek/manhunt game in the school library. Good times.

[MountainKing]

Considering that in high school I was ahhh... well, "fluffy", and now I'm moreso "bearlike", I'd have to say that, no, they don't cancel each other out.

It probably helps that I eat maybe a quarter of what I did back then, now that I'm out of my parent's house. In the last eight months I've lost easily 40 lbs, putting me at the second best shape in my life (the first best and likely never again matchable by comparison being the four years I spent playing football when I was younger).

It feels weird to cradle my guitar in my mankiller hands; my palms are easily the length of my middle finger on each hand. :smalleek:

EDIT: Scratch that; they are apparently just shy of half an inch longer.

[Syka]

...smoking, blech. I don't mind if I can't smell or the guy doesn't do it a lot. But I (literally) can't live with someone who smokes. I've got asthma. And I resent the soccer momlette comment. :smallwink: I've no intention of being a soccer mom, or any other kind of mom.

And now I HAVE to start up a hide and seek game in the library....:smallbiggrin:

Well, either way, good luck MK.

Cheers,
Syka

[MountainKing]

Hey now, I'm good about my smoking. As long as I'm occupied, I'll smoke maybe once every two to four hours; longer if I'm really, really into whatever I'm doing. I only smoke outdoors, and I always try to deposit butts in a designated recepticle.

However, after talking to mudbunny this afternoon, I feel a lot better about things; a large part of my problem is that I seldom talk about how I feel or think with anyone close to me; I keep it locked up inside because I'm always afraid that I'll cause someone to worry :smallfrown: , and I hate doing that more than I fear dancing.

Also: not every fitness minded female is a soccer momlette; my sister, for example, is the complete opposite, yet she does crazy things like runs five miles a day and pilattes. Sorry to offend; I wasn't directing what I said at anyone in particular.

[Syka]

Yay, a polite smoker! Hehe. One time I remember the guy I was dating asked if I could smell anything on him, and I'm like "No..." Evidently he'd smoked a cigarette type thing on the drive up, and was making sure he still smelled good. ;) I've only seen/known him to smoke twice. When he was around me, he made sure to ask. Thank you for being considerate. :smallsmile:

And it's good to get things out. Sometimes I worry my friends will think I complain too much, but they always reassure me that I don't by a loooong shot. So, I wouldn't worry about confiding in people. True friends want to help you out.

Cheers,
Syka

[MountainKing]

You know what I don't understand? I've spoken with/listened to easily dozens of girls and women complaining that their boyfriend/fiance/whatever is worthless, or is "retarded", or does a lot of really irresponsible/inconsiderate BS to them, and I ask them "Then why do you keep putting yourself through that?", and they have no response. Can anyone maybe shed some light on that?

[Dragonrider]

Not knowing the people, I can't say.

a) They're attracked to losers.

b) They like to complain.

c) They want to make you jealous

d) Everyone complains about their significant other, and they're just conforming to the norm.

e) They're too involved and can't let go.

Either way, it's pretty stupid.
If he's a jerk, dump him. :smalltongue:

[FdL]

MK, "soccer momlette" actually sounds good to me, maybe I'm not getting your point because I don't know what the expression describes :p

And well, I read all your posts. I can relate a lot to the feeling you describe. Too much, actually. But what they're telling you it's true.

You can't hope someone will pay attention to you and feel good with you if you don't feel good with yourself. You have to like yourself.

I was like that for some time, I was in university and after finishing with a girl I dated there I was feeling down. Then I somehow used the opportunity to make myself more positive. I really didn't care about not having a girl, I just was myself. And it was a positive time in my life, which is something people notice. It was at that time that I met the girl who would become my girlfriend. It's no coincidence really.

It's all about thinking positively. You don't have to focus on the fact that you're alone. You don't have to want it that bad. You have to try to feel good with yourself and do your stuf, what makes you happy. Then I guarantee someone will notice you. It happened to me, and I'm usually even more negative than what you've told here. Really.

And well, it's difficult to reach that state where you don't give a crap and still you feel well. But you can do it, or it comes by itself. Just don't look at the half empty glass.

Hey, I'm feeling positive myself saying all this ^^ Yay!

Bottom line is, women (and people in general) can tell when you're confident and at peace with yourself. It's something they like, obviously, and it translates to everything you do, even if you don't know it.

[zeratul]

There are some who hide things like that well. I've gotten surprisingly good at it. Not that that's a good thing...............

[FdL]

Nah, I don't think that's your case. I guess you just need to make up your mind and muster a little courage (or momentum maybe) and tell her ;) I could be wrong of course, but I think she's into you.

[Vampiric]

There are some who hide things like that well. I've gotten surprisingly good at it. Not that that's a good thing...............

Definitely not. And, like mudbunny and I said above, no matter how well you think you are doing it, someone, somewhere, knows. And not because you told them. :). Try being more open with your friends. I can guarantee good results. It also takes a lot of emotional pressure off your chest. And, with regards to the person who knows that you're down, if they're like I was, then they'll wait for you to talk to them about it, rather than attempt to coerce it from you...:smalltongue:

[MountainKing]

So, tonight I think I'm going to gear up my courage and ask a ladyfriend of mine that I like if she's down for going to see dinner and a movie next Friday or Saturday, depending on when I can get my paycheck out of my dad's iron fist. Wish me luck!

[Aramil Liadon]

Yay! May the Luck be with you!

Here, I will give you a secret toem to embibe yourself with confidence. Score it onto your skin with a peice of charcoal.


....../|\
....///\\\
../|\..../|\
///\\\ ///\\\

[Eldpollard]

So, tonight I think I'm going to gear up my courage and ask a ladyfriend of mine that I like if she's down for going to see dinner and a movie next Friday or Saturday, depending on when I can get my paycheck out of my dad's iron fist. Wish me luck!

Good luck, I hope it goes well. Tell us all how it goes.

[Syka]

Good luck!

Well...I'm supposed to see the guy I'd been dating tonight. At this point, if he ends up calling, I'm just going to ask to go to the beach for a bit, talk it out with him, and go home. Mainly cause he's driving me nuts and I need a break from crazy. I can't tell whether this is PMS talking or my sane mind, but he's seriously giving me mixed signals and I need it to stop. If that means we can't be friends, at this point I can deal with that.

Seriously, though. I'm sure I'm not overthinking this. One night, he's asking me all sorts of things (do I remember when we first met, etc) and saying other stuff (which I won't go into) and seems all excited and happy for me coming home (telling me we'll be getting together, etc), wishing me luck on my test, that sort of thing. Then, another day he isn't online at all and when we do talk, he's "ignoring me because he got a phone call" (his words, when he apologized) and otherwise not really conversing all that much. I let him know I'd be home around four and to call me after that today, he said ok. It's 7.30 and still nothing. I know his parent's can't have abducted him, because they are in the town where I go to school having dinner with his brother and his brothers girlfriend, and he opted to stay home this weekend.

:smallfrown: Someone tell me my PMS is getting the best of me and there is probably some good explanation why I'm still sitting at home on a Saturday night, when I was told I wouldn't be.

Cheers,
Syka

EDIT: Fricking Murphy's law. He literally just called right after I posted that. --' Evidently he promised another friend he'd hang out with him for a couple hours. I told him to call me afterwards. I haven't decided whether or not I will. I think I'll stick with my original plan of saying beach to talk, then home.

[FdL]

Yeah, good luck MK! Go and have a good time.

On a related note I'm going out tonight to a party of a friend from university ^^ Hope MR is there, that would be fun. But anyway there's going to be lots of cute girls around. YAY for me! ^^



Well...I'm supposed to see the guy I'd been dating tonight. At this point, if he ends up calling, I'm just going to ask to go to the beach for a bit, talk it out with him, and go home. Mainly cause he's driving me nuts and I need a break from crazy. I can't tell whether this is PMS talking or my sane mind, but he's seriously giving me mixed signals and I need it to stop. If that means we can't be friends, at this point I can deal with that.


Well, I'm glad that you're taking that well. I mean, you're right, if that's the way it is you know what you want to do about it.



Seriously, though. I'm sure I'm not overthinking this. One night, he's asking me all sorts of things (do I remember when we first met, etc) and saying other stuff (which I won't go into) and seems all excited and happy for me coming home (telling me we'll be getting together, etc), wishing me luck on my test, that sort of thing. Then, another day he isn't online at all and when we do talk, he's "ignoring me because he got a phone call" (his words, when he apologized) and otherwise not really conversing all that much. I let him know I'd be home around four and to call me after that today, he said ok. It's 7.30 and still nothing. I know his parent's can't have abducted him, because they are in the town where I go to school having dinner with his brother and his brothers girlfriend, and he opted to stay home this weekend.


Hmmm... :S Sounds like your on the receiving end of the classic post-breakup mind-screw :(



:smallfrown: Someone tell me my PMS is getting the best of me and there is probably some good explanation why I'm still sitting at home on a Saturday night, when I was told I wouldn't be.


Yeah, one more reason to tell off the guy I guess :s Really a waste, I can't understand why someone would treat a beautiful girl like that.

[stolenchariot]

Okay, I'm almost eleven months into a long distance relationship with a girl I love very much. The problem here; she's about as negative as you can get, and I feel hurt whenever I have to argue with ehr whenever I compliment her. I want to at least ask for abreak, but I'mstill concerned for her feelings.

[I'm da Rogue!]

That's good news, right? :smallconfused:

[Syka]

Stolen, is she negative towards you, your accomplishments, etc? If so, and this sounds harsh I know, you probably should break it off until she can get more positive. I was in a three and a half year LDR, with someone who was pretty negative in general (not towards me specifically, most the time). Post break up...I found myself relieved and happy. I was hurt and upset and all, too, but there was a grain of happiness in there. In the intervening months, they've been some of my happiest...Because negative people are gone. You need to evaluate how this is affecting you. For something less drastic, next time she challenges you say, "Are you saying that I don't have good taste? Do you not trust me?" When I told my ex that once, he finally shut up about that particular thing. ;)

FdL. Thank you. As I said, he did call. Talked with my mom and another friend, and they agreed with me just going up to the beach to talk. I'm going to take it from there. Gah, the double whammy of hormones and males is putting me on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster. My apologies for seeming...I dunno. :P

Cheers,
Syka

[stolenchariot]

She's really supportive of me, and she talks about me to other people like I'm the ebst thing in the world. She's only negative when it comes to herself, and that's the thing that hurts me the most. and I understand.

[Syka]

In that case...I'd talk to her about it. Find out why she feels that way, and explain that it hurts YOU when she talks about herself like that. Sometimes, that can be the best motivator for change, knowing that you hurt someone you love/care about.

Cheers,
Syka

[AngelSword]

Alright, so we talked for a bit, but there was no mention of Wednesday. We spoke of nonsensical things (including a strange conversation about how we both have had Thrush).

So, here I am, thinking that she wants to remain friends.

…That was until I saw that she had changed her MySpace page (http://www.myspace.com/liltk421)'s headline to read Our lips can touch... here.

Should I take that into consideration, or is this yet another example of me being overly analytical?

[Pyrian]

I'd've taken that as "our lips can't touch anywhere else" - assuming it's even directed at you.

[FdL]

FdL. Thank you. As I said, he did call. Talked with my mom and another friend, and they agreed with me just going up to the beach to talk. I'm going to take it from there. Gah, the double whammy of hormones and males is putting me on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster. My apologies for seeming...I dunno. :P


Human? Alive ;)
It's ok, your situation is totally understandable. Here's crossing my fingers for you to have a nice time and an opportunity to sort things out, as you want them to be. ^^


Alright, so we talked for a bit, but there was no mention of Wednesday. We spoke of nonsensical things (including a strange conversation about how we both have had Thrush).

So, here I am, thinking that she wants to remain friends.

…That was until I saw that she had changed her MySpace page (http://www.myspace.com/liltk421)'s headline to read Our lips can touch... here.

Should I take that into consideration, or is this yet another example of me being overly analytical?

IMHO, yes. :p
It seems to me like you're going to be the one who brings it up, explicitly. You've been subtle but direct. The ball was on her side of the court, yet she didn't take the shot. So it's your turn again.
Evidently it did have some effect in her, that's obvious. I don't know whether you should take that MySpace thing as a clue. But in any case, it means nothing. It's no use to get over analytical about tiny details, it'll drive you crazy, and it's easier and simpler just to talk to her.

[Traveling_Angel]

I would assume it's not aimed at you, but I would ask about it, as it could be speaking to someone she met online. Not the best of grab bags.



Now for my own fun problems.

There is a girl I got to know in geometry class last year, and she has been making comments and taking actions that make it implicitly obvious that she is considering me. Problem? She would be gently described as a druggie. I, however, am a typical goodie-twoshoes. If we do get together, I fear that my push for her to cut the less than legal stuff may lead to terminating the relationship, with extra fireball style reactions likely. She appears to be completely set in denial that anything bad could come from her activities, which makes matters even worse.

Help!

[Serpentine]

Alright, so we talked for a bit, but there was no mention of Wednesday. We spoke of nonsensical things (including a strange conversation about how we both have had Thrush).
I told you she might need a nudge. Girls are wusses, too.

Travelling Angel, what sort of substances are we talking about? How regularly? Can you see it having an adverse effect? (much of this is probably more PM-worthy) Anyway, if you do decide to get together, you have to take her as she is. If you're worried about her health and wellbeing because of these habits, tell her, try to be a good influence, but you'll never be able to force her to stop. It's possible that nothing bad ever will come from it (depending upon the substances, frequency, dosages, etc), and just as possible that she won't believe that it could until it happens. Would you be willing to deal with that worry? Your concern itself might even be a positive influence...

[MountainKing]

Well, to those who wished me luck, thanks for trying. After a lot of awkward pausing and saying "...because...", she threw me the "I'd rather we stay friends" bomb.

I'm kind of bummed, but I'm used to it; a terrible stance to take on it, but I promise that I'm not letting it affect my outlook on things. This time, I'm trying to keep it positive (though I have already had a bout with "What's wrong with me?"), and it could well be that she's still getting used to her new appartment (we live in the same building, but she lives upstairs).

[Dimitri]

I'll just cut straight to it: what's the best subtle way to discover if someone likes you?

[Dragonrider]

Alright, so we talked for a bit, but there was no mention of Wednesday. We spoke of nonsensical things (including a strange conversation about how we both have had Thrush).

So, here I am, thinking that she wants to remain friends.

…That was until I saw that she had changed her MySpace page's headline to read Our lips can touch... here.

Should I take that into consideration, or is this yet another example of me being overly analytical?

Yes, I think you probably are being overanalytical. On the other hand, there's no reason to think she ISN'T interested in you, given what you've said before. Speaking from experience, I can tell you that some of us girls need that explicit this is how I feel, do you feel the same way? to come clean about our feelings. I can't say how she feels about you, but I do know that usually coming clean has the best results, even if it results in the "just friends" bomb. There's a song that says the love for you that's in my heart / was original right from the start / and silence may not have quite the same reward. Even if she doesn't return your feelings (and there's a good chance she does) I think you should give it another try. Like Serpentine says, give her another nudge, and see where she goes.

:smallsmile: good luck!


There is a girl I got to know in geometry class last year, and she has been making comments and taking actions that make it implicitly obvious that she is considering me. Problem? She would be gently described as a druggie. I, however, am a typical goodie-twoshoes. If we do get together, I fear that my push for her to cut the less than legal stuff may lead to terminating the relationship, with extra fireball style reactions likely. She appears to be completely set in denial that anything bad could come from her activities, which makes matters even worse.

Again, I agree with Serpentine. You don't get into a relationship thinking Well, they have problems, but I can change them. You can't. They can change themselves, given the nudge, but ultimately only under their own impetus. You can still be a good influence on her without having a romantic relationship, if that's what you want - but I wouldn't get into anything with her as long as she's doing that stuff. Drugs aren't cool. :smallsmile:


Well, to those who wished me luck, thanks for trying. After a lot of awkward pausing and saying "...because...", she threw me the "I'd rather we stay friends" bomb.

I'm kind of bummed, but I'm used to it; a terrible stance to take on it, but I promise that I'm not letting it affect my outlook on things. This time, I'm trying to keep it positive (though I have already had a bout with "What's wrong with me?"), and it could well be that she's still getting used to her new appartment (we live in the same building, but she lives upstairs).

I'm sorry. I just recently dealt with that...it's not easy and I'm still in the process of getting over him (but past the point where it's painful to talk about, apparently...:smalltongue:). As sad as it seems, "just friends" is better than nothing...and there's nothing that really "helps", just time, but getting it out and talking to people can "ease the pain" a little. This thread was really good for me, anyway. :smallsmile:

As for "what's wrong with me"...nothing is wrong with you. At least, nothing that isn't wrong with a lot of people...sometimes it feels like unrequited love is the only kind of love I'll ever get, but I know I've got time. You're a good five years older than I am, I'm guessing (leading me to wonder what the heck I'm doing giving advice?), but you have time, too. Relax a little, don't worry about finding someone RIGHT NOW, and maybe a girl will come along who IS the "right one" for you. Most people do find someone. It just takes time, sometimes.

[Amotis]

I'll just cut straight to it: what's the best subtle way to discover if someone likes you?

I like your name. Dimitri is such a cool name.

Anyway, by subtle do you mean be able to tell and not let the person you're wondering if they like you know? It depends on the person. Some people have pretty close friends in which they do share pre-relationship crushes, likes, etc. So I guess it may seem childlike, but if you share a friend, ask or poke away there. I don't see a problem with that at all. Other people don't let anyone else know until someone happens or the feeling dies away. If this is the case then you have to be able to talk to this person. Develop a friendship and read the heck out of them. There's a lot of signals that may or may not be a sign, again, depending on the person. Some people are just flirty, some more quick to be openly friendly, some don't always think over any double meaning in their words before they say it.

In conclusion, it depends on the person. And the only way to be absolutely sure is to not be subtle. You can get hints and signs and all that jazz, but they may be nothing but air if the person is just naturally like that or you see things that aren't there.

[Serpentine]

I'll just cut straight to it: what's the best subtle way to discover if someone likes you?
For subtlety, if it's someone you want to be liking you, sending subtle signals of your own and studying the response could be a good start. Alternatively, same thing, less subtlety - more definite result, quicker, but greater (perceived) risk.

[MountainKing]

As for "what's wrong with me"...nothing is wrong with you. At least, nothing that isn't wrong with a lot of people...sometimes it feels like unrequited love is the only kind of love I'll ever get, but I know I've got time. You're a good five years older than I am, I'm guessing (leading me to wonder what the heck I'm doing giving advice?), but you have time, too. Relax a little, don't worry about finding someone RIGHT NOW, and maybe a girl will come along who IS the "right one" for you. Most people do find someone. It just takes time, sometimes.

Maybe, unless you're not actually fifteen. At least time is something I have a lot of :smallredface:

[BlackStaticWolf]

I have a problem along these lines that I'm uncomfortable sharing publicly. I'd be most appreciative of anyone willing to contact me about it via PM.

[Dragonrider]

Maybe, unless you're not actually fifteen. At least time is something I have a lot of :smallredface:

:smalltongue: Sixteen. And clearly I think that I'm mature for my age or else I WOULDN'T be handing out advice....

Well, disclaimer: Anything I tell you is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it.

[MountainKing]

Two souls in larval form?

Normally, the morning after a fall like last night's is the worst part, but so far, I'm feeling pretty good. Who knows? Maybe today will be fun!

[FdL]

Wellllll....I went out last night, had a great time. We drank and we danced all night (surprisingly I did too, I was in the mood somehow). Plenty of beautiful women, some I knew, some I didn't.
Now, neither MR or her friend showed up :( That's a bummer because I was counting on it.

Then, I found that there were some girls I liked but I really couldn't do anything about it. I just can't work in that kind of environment. Sure, dancing with them, and fooling around and everything. But I hate it that the music is so loud that you can't talk! I really don't hear a thing people says in those places where thee music is loud :( I can't even try, I don't have a loud voice and I tire very soon of screaming to be heard (my throat gets sore). I know I can't create or follow a conversation with that handicap :S

Also, leaving that aside I think I don't know how to approach a woman in a club or a pub or some other place like this. I just don't have it :S It's frustrating.

There was a girl I was planning to try and talk to. I liked her, and I flirted some with her, but then I found out from a friend that a) she lived in another city and b) she had a boyfriend. And it may sound stupid but "a" it's a decisive factor for me. I know myself, I'm lazy. It wouldn't work.

There were also a couple of other girls that showed maybe some potential interest in me. But I really didn't like either a lot, so I didn't feel like making a move. I wondered later if I could hook up with a girl like that, and date and make out and everything if I didn't really like her a lot. I guess I could do it, I mean, she was cute and I know her a bit and she's ok, but maybe I'd get bored or not really connect. It's weird to think that, because I'd like to be with a girl, seeing that I can't have the ones I like maybe I should try with the ones who like me. I don't know, it's an experiment I might have some day :S

Also: my head aches and I still have the post-tinnitus buzz which I absolutely hate. I have to DM all this afternoon like this. Crap :S


Well, to those who wished me luck, thanks for trying. After a lot of awkward pausing and saying "...because...", she threw me the "I'd rather we stay friends" bomb.


Yeah, it sucks. But you tried, and you got a response. To me that's positive, it's better than not knowing and going crazy about it for a long time. So be cool, this one didn't work but there's plenty girls out there. And of course it's not about you, that's out of the question.

Reading Amotis' advice to Dimitri, well, I agree. But with the thing about becoming friends with the person you like, be careful. I mean, it's good to have a little common ground and dialogue to be able to know her/him, but then again I think that you have to keep things under control. Because you run the risk of her/him seeing you as a friend if you act too much like one. It's a thin line, between being friendly and "just a friend". It's a critical issue for me, that's why it calls my attention.

[mudbunny]

I have a problem along these lines that I'm uncomfortable sharing publicly. I'd be most appreciative of anyone willing to contact me about it via PM.

Check your inbox.

[FdL]

I think I give up. I don't feel like chasing girls, going out, chatting them up or whatever. It never gets me anything. I don't know really how to do it. So that's it, no more flirting, no more of that :S

If I stumble upon some girl and it comes out naturally I'll do it. I'll even try to do it right, but also I'll be as straight and "to the point" as I can. Most girls I know can't take it anyway and run away when subjected to that. So it's their loss if they can't take it like adults, and if they don't want anything that's fine by me.

I'm tired of all this. I'm even think I don't need it and would be better off without it.

Guess what my current mood is.

[Dragonrider]

Sounds like a good idea, actually, FdL. I don't know if you've noticed how when you're looking through a bin of LEGOs for a specific piece, you can never find it, but as soon as you stop concentrating, you see twelve of them popping up all over the place? :smalltongue:

How sappy is that! Am I annoying you with my analogy? :smallbiggrin:

[Xykon_Fan]

That's an awesome analogy, DR! I love that! (Will sig that once MI Week is over)...been saying that a lot recently.

FDL: Yeah, I think that's probably the best way to go. What's been said about not looking suddenly getting you noticed is slightly true. It makes you more relaxed about life.

@V: O.o Wow...how very...ummm...logical of you.

[Logic]

Sounds like a good idea, actually, FdL. I don't know if you've noticed how when you're looking through a bin of LEGOs for a specific piece, you can never find it, but as soon as you stop concentrating, you see twelve of them popping up all over the place? :smalltongue:

How sappy is that! Am I annoying you with my analogy? :smallbiggrin:

It is for that very reasons that I organized all my legos into little plastic baggies by type. Hopefully, this doesn't send up red flags about control issues.

[Last_resort_33]

I think I give up. I don't feel like chasing girls, going out, chatting them up or whatever. It never gets me anything. I don't know really how to do it. So that's it, no more flirting, no more of that :S

If I stumble upon some girl and it comes out naturally I'll do it. I'll even try to do it right, but also I'll be as straight and "to the point" as I can. Most girls I know can't take it anyway and run away when subjected to that. So it's their loss if they can't take it like adults, and if they don't want anything that's fine by me.

I'm tired of all this. I'm even think I don't need it and would be better off without it.

Guess what my current mood is.

I never did any chiasing, then once I was 18, the person that I am marrying in Feburary turned up in my house and life just sort of... happened.

[Rykaj]

@^ You lucky bastard.

I think most people do actually have to work for it and cause love just doesn't turn up on the doorstep. Except for you, obviously. :smallwink:

[Dragonrider]

It is for that very reasons that I organized all my legos into little plastic baggies by type. Hopefully, this doesn't send up red flags about control issues.

We have stacks and stacks of bins and once upon a time our legos were neatly sorted into "hinged pieces", "bricks", "small flats", "large flats", "people", etc...I think there were about twenty different catagories. That was when I was in charge. Now my 10-year-old brother has them and um...well, we're lucky when they're in bins at all.

[Deuterium]

We have stacks and stacks of bins and once upon a time our legos were neatly sorted into "hinged pieces", "bricks", "small flats", "large flats", "people", etc...I think there were about twenty different catagories. That was when I was in charge. Now my 10-year-old brother has them and um...well, we're lucky when they're in bins at all.

Hah, yes. Why bother with caltrops - just scatter lego across the carpet and lay in wait! :smallbiggrin:

I must go find out what happened to my collection...

[PhallicWarrior]

This might sound a bit disorganized but you have to understand, I'm new at this "asking for help" business.

OK, here goes.

I met this girl by pure chance about a year ago. She was, and still is, a great person and I really like her. The problem is, she lives in a different state (Connecticut, as opposed to NY) and I still have to rely on my parents to get around, and she's too shy to ask me out, which puts a bit of a damper on dating plans. As a result, we haven't seen each other since the party, though we keep in touch via email and such. I got fed up with this and asked her if she wanted to break it off, and she emails me back saying that there wasn't ever anything between us, but that she would like there to be. Thing is, I half-expected her to say "we're done and let's get on with our lives," and that I would be happy to end it and blah, blah, blah... But it isn't that simple. I still like her (though I was finally ready to accept that I'd never see her again.) and I want to be with her, but it's going to be hard as ever to arrange anything and I like at least one other girl back home and... well that's it.

[AngelSword]

TK: I just want to be friends.... I'm really not looking for anything serious

Back to waiting.

[FdL]

Thanks DR and Xykon. I guess I'm tired of it, I just want to leave that stress out of my life, 'cause it's getting me nowhere. I don't know.

Lego analogy was great, though ;) It's just that I like Lego a lot.

Oh, and LastResort, you are a very fortunate man. I don't think it's a good example because that doesn't happen often, but really, congratulations.


TK: I just want to be friends.... I'm really not looking for anything serious

Back to waiting.

She said that? Well, a pity, but life goes on. Do you want to be her friend? If you can do it, then it's great.

Don't feel bad. It sucks, but that's life. You can't be loved by everyone. At least she's your friend, and that is important, if you want it.

Oh, then my overanalyzing self kicks in. Because if I got that I'd be thinking "what do you mean by 'not looking for anything serious'?". But that doubting, stalling Felipe is becoming extinct, thankfully.

[Logic]

Sorry to hear that AngelSword. May your luck change for the better.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

yarg. I have a similar problem, PhallicWarrior. A person I care about very deeply lives about a two-hour drive to the southeast of where I live. It really really eats at me, because I too have to rely on my parents to provide me with transportation. neither of our parents really approve, so we rarely see each other at all. Amazingly, we've managed to stay 'with' each other for over a year now, despite having seen each other less than five times over the course of the year - most of the time under the careful watch of our respective parents. We keep in touch over email, but with his computer in for repairs this week, I feel very lonely and full of teenage self-doubt indeed. :smallfrown:

my humble advice - long-distance relationships are hard and painful. If you can't be seriously committed to making it work, then it might not be a good idea to start something that difficult. However, if you like her enough to wear the pain of a relationship like that, it might be worth a try. :smallsmile:

[FdL]

Hmmm...I know I can't do long-distance, so I avoid it. It's a shame, but I know myself.
Actually I find that lately I've started appreciating old fashioned human relationships, so I tend to prefer presence, closeness, skin, etc. and move away from the virtual or distant. I want a simpler life.

[zeratul]

Ok guys, here's an update. The more I see her my feelings for her increase but, given my problems with the to two selfs (self esteem, and self confidence) I have problems expressing this. I overthink most things when I'm around her as well so, I think I don't come of as well around her as I do around other people. Anyway, I wrote my emotions the only way I seem to know how nowadays, poetry.

WARNING - is very sappy read at your own risk

I still lack the confidence to show how much for you I feel
For to long my emotions I've tried to conceal
my joy at mearly seeing you is beyond comprehension
There's just to many things bout you I could mention

Now I know this minuscule selection of words may seem cliché
But it seems that this just makes it easier to convey
And though with this I'll always struggle with at least to some degree
I will try to move a way more from the introverted me

Your flash of white brings ecstasy from it's mere presence
Your beauty makes the moon glow brighter in recompense
To be your match in grace the raven could not feign
Yet still these paltry words cannot your essence explain.


And I know this minuscule selection of words may seem cliché
But it seems that this just makes it easier to convey
And though with this I'll always struggle with at least to some degree
I will try to move a way more from the introverted me

[Ego Slayer]

Aww, that's sweet, Zer. ^_^

[Dragonrider]

@Zeratul: Yes, very sappy, but you know what? Poetry is one of the best ways I know to get things out. I write a lot of (no doubt) very bad poetry that I will never, ever show to anyone, because it helps me sort things out and make sense of my own feelings, plus it's a kind of release. Somehow when you put things in rhyme, it makes it a little easier to think. So keep going, that's very good. (and by the way, that sounds a lot like one I wrote about a year ago...I hope your situation turns out better than mine did. :smallsmile:)

(I wrote two very pathetic pity-me poems today on how I'm trying to move on - irony in itself since as long as I'm writing poetry about it, I clearly HAVEN'T yet. :smallamused: But it's only been two weeks...it'll take a while yet)


@Cult_of_the_Raven: Long-distance friendships/relationships ARE hard to maintain (all my friends are long-distance...), but in some ways I think it actually strengthens them - that is, if they're strong to begin with. You only keep something like that up if you really care about a person. EMAIL IS YOUR FRIEND. :smallsmile:


@AngelSword: We should make a club for people who're in that boat. I wonder how many of us are out there on this board alone? :smalltongue:

[Zeb The Troll]

WARNING - is very sappy read at your own risk

I still lack the confidence to show how much for you I feel
For too long my emotions I've tried to conceal
my joy at merely seeing you is beyond comprehension
There're just too many things about you I could mention

Now I know this miniscule selection of words may seem cliché
But it seems that this just makes it easier to convey
And though with this I'll always struggle with at least to some degree (remove one of them)
I will try to move away more from the introverted me

Your flash of white brings ecstasy from it's mere presence
Your beauty makes the moon glow brighter in recompense
To be your match in grace the raven could not feign
Yet still these paltry words cannot your essence explain.


And I know this miniiscule selection of words may seem cliché
But it seems that this just makes it easier to convey
And though with this I'll always struggle with at least to some degree (remove one of them)
I will try to move away more from the introverted me
I'll admit, I don't do poetry very well but this, to me, has a nice flow and sounds honest. I made a few suggestions for corrections but they are all mechanical (mostly spelling) and in no way change what you're trying to get across.

Are you contemplating sending this to her? Or writing it down and giving it to her? I would think it would be well received, but then I'm not sure I'm the person to judge what a young teenage girl would think. I would at the very least make the mechanical corrections before doing so, though.

[Serpentine]

Zer, it seems like every time you say anything, you remind me more and more like my ex :smallconfused: I mean, it's not like he ever wrote any poetry that I know of, and I don't think he's ever been a goth (though he is a metal-head now), but, I dunno, I just get this Adam-vibe off of you :smallconfused: Don't worry, it's not a bad thing :smalltongue:

[zeratul]

I'm also kinda new to writing poetry that isn't sad DR, but yeah I agree. Poetry, my bass, and these here wonderfull forums are where I express things the most.

[Serpentine]

Oh geez, you play guitar as well? >headdesk< You don't watch Star Trek, draw and listen to Metallica, too, do you?

[zeratul]

Hmm, well I love drawing midevil weapons, and I probably would like metallica. But I can't get into star trek. Though I know enough about it to know that the USS make **** up by Voltaire is hillarious.

[Dragonrider]

Okay, I admit it - I'm too vain to let the opportunity pass me by, and Zer has inspired me. :smalltongue: A precedent, you know...once one person's knocked down the barriers, everyone wants to be just like him.

So this is one example of my own little let-down of self-pity which should Never Be Seen By Human Eyes:

It wasn’t enough
All the prayers I said,
The tears I shed
I guess it couldn’t be;
And though within I’m dying,
Still I keep trying
For I want, I need, to be free

It wasn’t enough
For you saw things through
And now she loves you
And it’s tearing me apart;
And though you want to be friends
Try to make amends
I’m gathering the fragments of my heart

It wasn’t enough
And though I try to keep living
Try to start forgiving
It’s harder to forget;
And now I’m trying to let go
Though in my heart I know
That it’ll take a while yet


Yes. (is modest.) I'm wonderful. (is amused. :smallamused:)

[Hannes]

Well, bleh. There's this girl that I really, really like. So. There was a small party at my place and I started flirting. Five minutes later we were making out and I was the happiest man on earth. As the alcohol level rose and the night drew nigher it became clear that there will be adult actions. Now, when I tried to talk to her about a relationship the next day, she was giving me the usual "I'm sorry, it's just that there's so much going on and I'm not girlfriend of the year etc etc."
And so, now I though that "Okay, I guess it'll go over in a few days." Now, half a month has passed and the back of my head is still longing for her... You know, when you get a free moment and let your mind wander then her face is the first thing to come. And it really makes me feel empty and void, as if life's telling me
"Hey, you like her, don't you? Well, she doesn't like you!"

Also, figuring out that you want to live ALONE without seeing any friends for a year is weird somehow

[Serpentine]

Hmm, well I love drawing midevil weapons, and I probably would like metallica. But I can't get into star trek. Though I know enough about it to know that the USS make **** up by Voltaire is hillarious.
I'm guessing that's meant to be "medieval". Guh. Well, at least there's one difference, anyway... Uh, and I'm sorry I'm not saying anything useful, but, well, I don't have anything useful to say...

[zeratul]

Are you contemplating sending this to her? Or writing it down and giving it to her? I would think it would be well received, but then I'm not sure I'm the person to judge what a young teenage girl would think. I would at the very least make the mechanical corrections before doing so, though.

I've considered it, I probably won't but what do you guys think?

[Dragonrider]

If you do, my friend, you will be a braver soul than I am.

...

:smallbiggrin:

GO FOR IT!!!

*hahahaha*

(cackling evilly at the thought of shaping someone else's life to do what I never could...in other words, living vicariously through you :smallwink:)

(I think I'm up too late)

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

@ dragonrider - yes. email is very much my friend. :smallwink: also, your poetry is beautiful. now that a bandwagon is teetering on the edge of formng, I shall jump on it and submit my own. Warning - it's kind of long, and very sappy.

Somewhere in the land of bleeding doubt,
An eerie sigh is heard over and over again.
And here in this place, my heart reaches out,
For it knows what it is to feel this pain.

When a heart that is broken is your only respite
When living your life seems an unwinnable fight
When you can’t bear the weight of your sword anymore
And you’ve forgotten what it is that you are fighting for
Remember that no matter where in life you stand or fall,
You can still hear your heart’s mournful call.

Somewhere in the land of sobbing cries,
I scream with the pain of my soul, then moan,
Tearing up my heart, weeping through your lies,
Never have I felt so very awfully alone.

When a heart that is broken is your only respite
When living your life seems an unwinnable fight
When you can’t bear the weight of your sword anymore
And you’ve forgotten what it is that you are fighting for
Remember that no matter where in life you stand to cope,
You can still feel another heart’s call and sad hope.

Somewhere in the land of my torn-up years
My heart cries out to another, and feels its drive.
Your laugh makes me forget my hard tears
And through it all, you force me to survive.

When a heart that is mending is your only respite
When living your life seems a barely winnable fight
When you can’t bear the weight of your sword anymore
And you’ve almost forgotten what you are fighting for
Remember that no matter where in life you stand the night,
In the end, all that matters is love that’s stood the fight.

[SDF]

Well you have to be careful when giving someone poetry, to make sure there isn't something they can misinterpret. That is why I prefer writing songs, with the tone of your voice and the musical melody you can make them get a certain feeling from it that may not be there with just written word. I'd give it to her if it is really what you want to express to her. Art is, after all, a way of expressing yourself through non-conventional means.

[zeratul]

Well you have to be careful when giving someone poetry, to make sure there isn't something they can misinterpret. That is why I prefer writing songs, with the tone of your voice and the musical melody you can make them get a certain feeling from it that may not be there with just written word. I'd give it to her if it is really what you want to express to her. Art is, after all, a way of expressing yourself through non-conventional means.

Heh, thus comes my loophole. Most of my poetry is written in such a way that if I wanted to I could convert it into a song.

[Dragonrider]

I like it, Cult_of_the_Raven. :smallsmile: The bandwagon will expand to fit whoever needs a ride!

[Logic]

Oh geez, you play guitar as well? >headdesk< You don't watch Star Trek, draw and listen to Metallica, too, do you?

2 and a half out of 3.

[zeratul]

I like it, Cult_of_the_Raven. :smallsmile: The bandwagon will expand to fit whoever needs a ride!

We should form a tortured artists club:smalltongue: .

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

We should form a tortured artists club .

that would be fun and hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

[Logic]

...now that a bandwagon is teetering on the edge of formng...
I have a small collection of unfinished poetry, and I suppose it is only fair to show it to the person I wrote it about before you guys. That is, if I ever finish it. It's not exactly flattering, but it is because of "relationship woes and advice."

[Amotis]

Personally I've made my worst compositions in the depths of angst and "tortured artists". It just pays too much attention to the things that make bad art, in my opinion. Too much self and too little restraint or control. It just flows and flows with things you can't keep your mind off, not letting you manipulate or fixate on things that make relatable, intricate, or just comprehendable outside your current mood. Of course, that's just an artistic merit perspective. Psychologically, it's very helpful to get all those feelings out and I advicate it fully.

[zeratul]

Ok, back on topic, anyone got some advice for Hannes?

[SDF]

The nice thing about music is, with enough talent, you can make selections of the dictionary into a nice song. :P


Personally I've made my worst compositions in the depths of angst and "tortured artists". It just pays too much attention to the things that make bad art, in my opinion. Too much self and too little restraint or control. It just flows and flows with things you can't keep your mind off, not letting you manipulate or fixate on things that make relatable, intricate, or just comprehendable outside your current mood. Of course, that's just an artistic merit perspective. Psychologically, it's very helpful to get all those feelings out and I advicate it fully.

That is why I try to avoid those things when writing. They have their place, but I find angst themes droll and very... meh. I guess it is okay if you are James Joyce though. I have a very analytical mind I think, and when I start I always look at the mood I'm trying to set and establish it congruently with the theme and emotion. There is no wrong way to do art, but there is what I consider bad art. :smalltongue:

I'm not sure I want a SO right now. It certainly is lonelier, but I've been having enough trouble dealing with my friends lately. Not so much girl/boy woes, but problems with interpersonal relationships. There are some very specific problems, but I'll just say we've always seen the world very differently. That was one thing we all enjoyed when we were younger because we would have long, thoughtful philosophical conversations often, but as we've gotten older and had to deal with real issues we have all applied our own view to our lives. Lately it has created a lot of tension between us to the point where I've found myself not answering my phone when they call... I long for a simpler time, but it's life I guess. Nothing is easy.

[AngelSword]

GRR. I HATE WHEN ATTEMPTS TO MAKE AMENDS GO AWRY.:furious:

It seems I was wrong, then. Perhaps you're not the kind person I once thought you were. I genuinely sought friendship with my message. But you seem so caught up in looking for the "dirty truth" in everything I say that you've missed that.

You truly are the cold hearted person you once called yourself.

Not only that, you show how spineless you are by not having the gall to give me a real response.

So go, continue the song and dance for your friends. I see the real you.

[Serpentine]

Oh dear. That one was TK, then? I'm afraid if you're gonna fix this up, you're gonna have to bite the bullet and call her.

[Zeb The Troll]

@AS - Ouch. I don't know what you said to draw that response, but you're definitely going to have to forego electronic communication to clear this up. Call her or visit her (if you can).

[AngelSword]

Oh dear. That one was TK, then? I'm afraid if you're gonna fix this up, you're gonna have to bite the bullet and call her.

That wasn't her. That was my response to my ex-fiancé, when I tried to remove the animosity between us. Apparently, she's too ****ing proud to admit that she is wrong.

Edit:This is my original message to her.

I come to you now, with hopes of positive change. I don't know how you feel about me, but I know that, even after everything you've said to me, you are still one of the kindest people I have ever met.

I grow weary of the animosity that has come between us. There have been times where I long for the sometimes meaningful, sometimes silly conversations we once had.

So, I say this. Please, can we be civil? Whatever you want me to do, I will do it. Whatever you want me to say, I will say it.

I just can't stand this unreasonable disdain between us.

-Sword

[Serpentine]

Phew. I thought you were in real trouble with your friend... I'm afraid that it's probably best for your own state of mind if you just give up on her. She doesn't sound like a very nice person, and you already have at least one much nicer one to focus your attention on. If something does happen with her (or even if you do just stay friends), you don't want to find yourself talking about nothing but your horrible ex, do you?

[Jibar]

That wasn't her. That was my response to my ex-fiancé, when I tried to remove the animosity between us. Apparently, she's too ****ing proud to admit that she is wrong.



Woah woah woah hang on.

You have an ex-fiancé?

When did that happen?

[Zeb The Troll]

Whew! I thought something had gone horribly wrong with your new interest. :smalleek: Thank goodness that's not the case.

As for the ex, I'd suggest you wash your hands of her. It's cool that you'd like to be on good terms with her but if she's going to be resistant to it there's no point in continuing to try. It'll only cause you grief and possibly get in the way of something new happening.

[AngelSword]

Whew! I thought something had gone horribly wrong with your new interest. :smalleek: Thank goodness that's not the case.

As for the ex, I'd suggest you wash your hands of her. It's cool that you'd like to be on good terms with her but if she's going to be resistant to it there's no point in continuing to try. It'll only cause you grief and possibly get in the way of something new happening.

Oh, I intend to (or as clean as I can, given our mutual friendships). I just need this anger to burn away.

Now, someone talk me out of posting the…compromising pictures I have of her.

[Rawhide]

Now, someone talk me out of posting the…compromising pictures I have of her.

Never post them anywhere. That is a betrayal of trust that you should NEVER do regardless of what happens between you and another. I will repeat, never ever under any circumstance post those pictures anywhere or threaten to do so, no matter how you feel, or what she has said or done.

[Charity]

Yeah, just send them to me and I'll get the T shirts printed.... What?

[Vampire包子]

Never post them anywhere. That is a betrayal of trust that you should NEVER do regardless of what happens between you and another. I will repeat, never ever under any circumstance post those pictures anywhere or threaten to do so, no matter how you feel, or what she has said or done.

I'd like to hammer this one in. Just don't do it. Period. Sinking down and trying to get revenge is not the way to go. Punch a pillow if you need to, there's a thousand ways to burn anger.
Lashing out and trying to humiliate her would reflect more on your own behavoir than anything else.

[Vampiric]

*hugs* for everyone who wrote the poetry, it was beautiful!:smallsmile:

Zeratul, without knowing her personally, I can't guarantee results, but from personal experience, I know that if you don't, and it goes wrong, you will never forgive yourself the 'what if'.:smallannoyed: Try it.


Well, bleh. There's this girl that I really, really like. So. There was a small party at my place and I started flirting. Five minutes later we were making out and I was the happiest man on earth. As the alcohol level rose and the night drew nigher it became clear that there will be adult actions. Now, when I tried to talk to her about a relationship the next day, she was giving me the usual "I'm sorry, it's just that there's so much going on and I'm not girlfriend of the year etc etc."
And so, now I though that "Okay, I guess it'll go over in a few days." Now, half a month has passed and the back of my head is still longing for her... You know, when you get a free moment and let your mind wander then her face is the first thing to come. And it really makes me feel empty and void, as if life's telling me
"Hey, you like her, don't you? Well, she doesn't like you!"

Also, figuring out that you want to live ALONE without seeing any friends for a year is weird somehow

My first question is - 'girlfriend of the year' - whose? The next thing is, though you've probably figured it yourself, is to decide if you want to chase her, or leave it. In fact, going by the thread since it started (and the last one), people who ask have already made up their mind, and just want us to confirm or advise against. Tell us what you'd like to do, along with some reasons. Then we'll all chip in, 'cos that's what we're like:smallwink:

[Hannes]

Well, under "girlfriend of the year" she meant that she can't stay together with anyone for long. I don't care, a few happy moments together are better than none. Of course I want her, but the problem is I've tried everything I can and she's declined. I actually didn't come here to get advice, most of all I came here to just have a place to write it down =/

[AngelSword]

I'd like to hammer this one in. Just don't do it. Period. Sinking down and trying to get revenge is not the way to go. Punch a pillow if you need to, there's a thousand ways to burn anger.
Lashing out and trying to humiliate her would reflect more on your own behavoir than anything else.

I knew it was a bad idea, but it sounded so tempting at the time.

But now, the fire's burned out. And I've learned something very important from this. Whatever pangs of Love I still felt for her are now officially dead.

[Jibar]

I knew it was a bad idea, but it sounded so tempting at the time.

But now, the fire's burned out. And I've learned something very important from this. Whatever pangs of Love I still felt for her are now officially dead.

Oh the fire's dead, it never ever got a... staaaaaaaaart! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TOQxSvA_zs)

Ya know, I suppose it is a little sad that everything I've learnt about love comes from musicals.

[mudbunny]

yarg. I have a similar problem, PhallicWarrior. A person I care about very deeply lives about a two-hour drive to the southeast of where I live. It really really eats at me, because I too have to rely on my parents to provide me with transportation. neither of our parents really approve, so we rarely see each other at all. Amazingly, we've managed to stay 'with' each other for over a year now, despite having seen each other less than five times over the course of the year - most of the time under the careful watch of our respective parents. We keep in touch over email, but with his computer in for repairs this week, I feel very lonely and full of teenage self-doubt indeed. :smallfrown:

my humble advice - long-distance relationships are hard and painful. If you can't be seriously committed to making it work, then it might not be a good idea to start something that difficult. However, if you like her enough to wear the pain of a relationship like that, it might be worth a try. :smallsmile:


This might sound a bit disorganized but you have to understand, I'm new at this "asking for help" business.

OK, here goes.

I met this girl by pure chance about a year ago. She was, and still is, a great person and I really like her. The problem is, she lives in a different state (Connecticut, as opposed to NY) and I still have to rely on my parents to get around, and she's too shy to ask me out, which puts a bit of a damper on dating plans. As a result, we haven't seen each other since the party, though we keep in touch via email and such. I got fed up with this and asked her if she wanted to break it off, and she emails me back saying that there wasn't ever anything between us, but that she would like there to be. Thing is, I half-expected her to say "we're done and let's get on with our lives," and that I would be happy to end it and blah, blah, blah... But it isn't that simple. I still like her (though I was finally ready to accept that I'd never see her again.) and I want to be with her, but it's going to be hard as ever to arrange anything and I like at least one other girl back home and... well that's it.

A two-fer here, as they are both the same problem:

Long Distance relationships.

As someone who has been in one, and gotten an international Dear John phone call, they suck. No two ways about it. Relationships need that physical intimacy, even if it is just a supper out together, a walk along the beach, or something like that, to renew the connection between the two of you. When that is not possible, due to an ocean being in the way, or as a result of being too young to borrow the car and go for a trip, it makes life even more difficult.

It takes true commitment to each other to do so. That being said, the both of you appear to be fairly young. Young enough that you are still living at home and are probably in high school. That changes things a little bit. It is entirely possible that you have found your soul-mate at such an early age, but the chance of it happening is very slim. At an age where you really have no control over your life, I think that it might be a mistake to focus too much on your relationship with this other person several states away.

[mudbunny]

Well, under "girlfriend of the year" she meant that she can't stay together with anyone for long. I don't care, a few happy moments together are better than none. Of course I want her, but the problem is I've tried everything I can and she's declined. I actually didn't come here to get advice, most of all I came here to just have a place to write it down =/

As opposed to trying to be gf/bf with her. Have you tried just being friends with benefits? Being in a relationship carries with it all sorts of extra baggage that some people are uncomfortable with.

Warning - Blunt message below
Another possibility is that, and I don't want to be cruel, is that the only reason that things happened between the two of you is because of the alcohol. In her mind, it may have been something that she wishes that she had never done.

[Last_resort_33]

As opposed to trying to be gf/bf with her. Have you tried just being friends with benefits? Being in a relationship carries with it all sorts of extra baggage that some people are uncomfortable with.


I would say that that is BAD advice... If you love a "friend with benefits" and want a proper relationship, then things will start to get ugly.... REAL ugly, I've seen it... it's NOT pretty.

[mudbunny]

I would say that that is BAD advice... If you love a "friend with benefits" and want a proper relationship, then things will start to get ugly.... REAL ugly, I've seen it... it's NOT pretty.

From what he wrote, it was quite clear (to me at least) that she did not want a relationship with him. That being said, there are many people who don't place "friends with benefits" in the relationship category.

[Last_resort_33]

From what he wrote, it was quite clear (to me at least) that she did not want a relationship with him. That being said, there are many people who don't place "friends with benefits" in the relationship category.

I'm talking about HIM

Plus the fact (and I'm not just trying to be disagreeable, I just noticed it,) I disagree with your analysis of long distance relationships.

I am SO happy I didn't give up my long distance relationship... We did it for about 2 years, moved in together 2 years ago and we're getting married in feburary... I'd say, don't give up. But that's just me

[Sir_Norbert]

It's not just you.

What was it, New York and Connecticut? That's short distance by my standards; my previous girlfriend lived 10,000 miles away from me, my current one only 5000. We're trying to make sure we get to see each other twice a year, which is the most we can hope for. Hopefully in about two years we'll be able to move in together; a long time to wait when emotionally I feel quite ready to marry her tomorrow if I could.

So yes, it does take real commitment; if I wanted to, I probably could get together with someone else and do all the fun and intimate things you can do when you're together in real life sooner than the next time I'll see Valeran again. The reason I don't is that I feel sure she is right for me and I'd rather wait for her as long as it takes. And she's already waited for me for two years while I went through my previous relationship and its aftermath, so I have no doubts about her commitment.

So my advice is, weigh it up very carefully -- you'll be putting you and her through a lot of pain and difficulty, but if you really love each other, it can be worth it. Even if it doesn't work out, it can be worth it in the end, both because it was a good relationship while it lasted and because it's helped you grow up and understand things better. I certainly have no regrets about entering my first long-distance relationship, the one that didn't work out.

[mudbunny]

Plus the fact (and I'm not just trying to be disagreeable, I just noticed it,) I disagree with your analysis of long distance relationships.

I am SO happy I didn't give up my long distance relationship... We did it for about 2 years, moved in together 2 years ago and we're getting married in feburary... I'd say, don't give up. But that's just me

My view of long-distance relationships is colored by my experience with one. That is all the advice I can give.

I should point out that I didn't say they were impossible, just that they required a higher level of commitment to the relationship, as without the intimacy, things are more difficult.

In addition, the fact that the both of them are in high school needs to be brought into consideration.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

Mudbunny, I do agree with you to some extent. However, I would like to add that, at least in my relationship, neither of us could get a date in a million years. It's lucky we managed even to admit we liked each other. (we met at a summer camp program at a college, spent the whole three weeks playing DnD and coding in Java) We just went to the same camp again (even though he could only attend for one of the three weeks) and we spent the entire week being the stereotypical geek couple. I think that even though we're shy teenagers, neither of us have any other opportunity. (k'specially me. :smalltongue: ) but we're both getting our drivers' licenses soon (unless I fail the test) so we'll be able to drive out to see each other, given permission.

Sir Norbert, I think you summed it up nicely. we move at a slower pace than the rest of the world, but never once in all my angst and anguish have I regretted my decision to be in a relationship with him. I regret not being able to see him. I tear myself up at my inability to do anything about it, but I don't regret him.