PDA

View Full Version : Support Relationship Woes And Advice, Part Two (Read First Post)



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6

Syka
2007-07-25, 11:16 AM
Well...After the confession thread, I saw way too many "what do I do in this situation" threads popping up, so here is one nice compendium. Come here to post questions about how to approach the opposite sex, the dread first date and, should you be in a relationship already and fairly certain they don't read Giant, a place to complain/seek advice about a current flame.

If you'd rather not make it public, I will compile a list in this thread of people who will accept PM's to give advice.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.


Private Advice Givers:
Eh, I'm pretty sure any regular has an open PM box for you. :smallsmile:


RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

Cheers,
Syka

Quincunx
2007-07-25, 12:18 PM
(psst, misspelling in the thread title, fix it now before the option passes away!)

Some seduction pointers I've been wanting to get off of my chest for a few years now:

1) There are other options for seduction songs than Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters". It's a great song. I like it. Nevertheless, a song associated with the memories of every other guy that's tried it on your woman is not setting the mood you desire.

2) No pawing in the sauna, please.
2.1) I'm suffocating, but that doesn't mean my judgment's been impaired by oxygen deprivation--yet;
2.2) I'm thinking about the 6029475486 other people who have had the same idea in the same sauna;
2.3) Other objects taken into the sauna are too hot to continuously handle (extrapolate from there).

Syka
2007-07-25, 12:21 PM
I dunno how to edit the title. :smalleek: Help? Mod?

Cheers,
Syka

averagejoe
2007-07-25, 12:41 PM
1) There are other options for seduction songs than Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters". It's a great song. I like it. Nevertheless, a song associated with the memories of every other guy that's tried it on your woman is not setting the mood you desire.

Take my advice, fellas, the one that never fails is "The Happy Happy Joy Joy Song." No one thinks it would work, which is why most people don't find out about this, but it works like a charm.

Okay, yes, I am a horrible person. :smallbiggrin:

Syka
2007-07-25, 01:05 PM
Here, here about Nothing Else Matters. That was my ex and my's song. Yah, there are definitely fond memories attached to it (we'd listen to it on New Years, whether we were physically with each other or not), but I wouldn't want to take that to another relationship.

Thankfully, I thus far do not have to worry. :)

Cheers,
Syka

FdL
2007-07-25, 01:08 PM
Regarding your situation, Syka, I only know the few things I learned for myself. And how they work for me. And one is that I can't keep being friends.

I find it to be the healthiest option, to stop seeing that person, to cut any form of relationship. If we're a couple and we break up, then we have no bussiness together. For the sake of ourselves, to keep it clean and avoid hurting and confusing each other even more.
And if we weren't friends when it began, we're not going to be friends now. I can't be friends with someone I love (but that's another lesson learned much before this breakup; learning that cost me a friendship but it saved me a lot of pain).

It took years and buckets of tears to learn it, but I found what is right for me. It may be different for everyone. I can only speak my truth.

Sir_Norbert
2007-07-25, 01:25 PM
Staying friends is certainly difficult. :( Though so far I've only had one ex-girlfriend, and we did stay good friends for a while, until she moved house.

But against that, there was a girl I was crazily in love with around the beginning of this year, and she made it clear she didn't want me, which was hard to take, but I still wanted us to be friends. Only every time I said something that was meant to be friendly, she was like, "Stop hitting on me!" and I was like "wtf?"

It ended with us deciding to break off contact for a while, see if that made it easier for us to forget the past and start afresh. Only she never replied to the birthday card I sent her -- this was a couple of months later -- so I guess that was just her trying to be polite and not say outright that she had no interest in being friends.

It still hurts.

Ego Slayer
2007-07-25, 01:43 PM
I dunno how to edit the title. :smalleek: Help? Mod?

Cheers,
Syka

Just hit "edit" on the OP, or double-click the blank area round the title of the thread when you're viewing the list of threads in FB.

ForzaFiori
2007-07-25, 01:44 PM
i usually go back to whatever relationship me and my ex had b4 we started dating. of my 2 most recent ex's, one was a person i hardly new before dating, and its like that now. we rarely speak, arn't good friends, etc. The other was and still is one of my best friends.

Pyrian
2007-07-25, 01:53 PM
I really can't imagine falling in love with someone whom I wouldn't want to be friends with if it didn't work out. The latter is like a prerequisite for me; if I didn't like them enough to want to be friends with them, why would I love them? But it is very tough, especially at first. I'm pretty ruthless with myself in that situation: NO indication to her that I am hurt by her actions or feelings, and NO indication to her that I'm anything but happy for her in whatever relationship she's in. I can't really trust myself to be impartial on those subjects, and my (admittedly bitter) feelings simply aren't fair to her when the basic problem is I want her more than she wants me.

In contrast, I've seen people try to be "friends" with someone who spurned them, only to punish them verbally (and, I think, in some cases entirely unintentionally) for the pain the spurned party is feeling. I mean, it's basic animal nature to lash out when you're in pain, but that's the very opposite of being caring. And even the act of admitting that you're in pain because of them spurning you is ultimately a hurtful act if that person is at all empathic and/or cares about you.

So many people rationalize so much, and have so little self-awareness.

FdL
2007-07-25, 02:18 PM
It still hurts.

It sure does. But it can save you from more pain.


i usually go back to whatever relationship me and my ex had b4 we started dating. of my 2 most recent ex's, one was a person i hardly new before dating, and its like that now. we rarely speak, arn't good friends, etc. The other was and still is one of my best friends.

Well, yeah, when I met my ex I fell in love with her and always thought of her in a romantic way. So there's nothing before to go back to.

Even then, if you have a true intimate relationship with someone, even if you were friends before, I think you cannot go back to it and forget as if nothing had happened. At least I can't. It would mean that what happened between you doesn't matter. And it would require a complete brain/heart formatting on my part.


I really can't imagine falling in love with someone whom I wouldn't want to be friends with if it didn't work out. The latter is like a prerequisite for me; if I didn't like them enough to want to be friends with them, why would I love them?


I think of a love relationship as something more than a friendship with that person. It does include it at some level, but it's beyond that IMHO. That's why it's a difficult line to cross.

Besides, can you not be friends with your gf/bf?


All said, I don't know if *I* believe in friendship between men and women. There. Said it.

I may sound awful, but to some extent, and to be honest with myself, I can tell that there's some level of attraction with the women I relate to. Attraction at different levels, after all you are friends with people you like, aren't you?
It can turn into a friendship once the attraction thing goes to the background for many possible reasons...But you know, it's a defect of mine that I can't help to see women as women.

That sounded a lot worse than it is, I'm afraid, I don't want to sound as a jerk, because I know I'm not.

Jibar
2007-07-25, 02:27 PM
All said, I don't know if *I* believe in friendship between men and women. There. Said it.

There will be attraction, however dim. I'm attracted to all my girls, but I also know that given the option, I wouldn't date them.
I'm desperate and lonely yes, but they're friends first.
You can't help attraction, it's a natural thing and will happen no matter what you try, but it doesn't mean you can't be friends.
It doesn't hurt to see women as women at all. Hell, I think I'm only so close to my girls because they're women. But don't think that just because they're women you're meant to jump all over them at every option. Women are people too. And certainly better people than men are.

mudbunny
2007-07-25, 02:31 PM
And certainly better people than men are.

Hah!!

That is so wrong that isn't even funny.

Women can be just as cruel, mean-spirited and ugly as men are. In fact, during adolescence, they can be even worse.

My wife is coach of her high-school's cheerleading team, trust me, I know and hear all of the infighting, backstabbing, badmouthing and general bitchiness that goes on amongst the members of the team.

Sir_Norbert
2007-07-25, 02:35 PM
All said, I don't know if *I* believe in friendship between men and women. There. Said it.

I may sound awful, but to some extent, and to be honest with myself, I can tell that there's some level of attraction with the women I relate to. Attraction at different levels, after all you are friends with people you like, aren't you?
It can turn into a friendship once the attraction thing goes to the background for many possible reasons...But you know, it's a defect of mine that I can't help to see women as women.

That sounded a lot worse than it is, I'm afraid, I don't want to sound as a jerk, because I know I'm not.
Nah, you don't come across as a jerk, just someone who's different from me in this respect. I make friends with women much more easily than with men, and it doesn't have to be women I find attractive (although that's one of many things that helps slightly). Some people aren't like this and there's nothing wrong with that.

Jibar
2007-07-25, 02:36 PM
Sorry, I have a completely justified hatred of all men.
It's one of the many reasons why I seem to have only 1 male friend in real life, and why my gender is female.
Of course, I really am female, so :smalltongue:

InaVegt
2007-07-25, 02:36 PM
And certainly better people than men are.

While I love to hear things like that from males, I'm afraid it's just plain wrong.

Look at me, as an example, I have created 124 plans to conquer the world as of now, and if I had the capability wouldn't hesitate to put them to action. If I conquer the world I would be of a very simple legal system, you do what I say or you be killed.

And you dare say men are worse, not buying it.

Syka
2007-07-25, 02:38 PM
Trust me, I wanted to stay friends. I wish we could. But the way he acted last night (which was a day after apologizing for acting the SAME way 2 nights before) was just completely rude to me. :smallfrown: We had gotten to know each other as friends before we dated some, so it's really hurting me a lot to know that I've lost that.

I dunno, I'm really not sure if he's "moved on" like he said last night, but I think the sting of me finding out hasn't gone away. But I think I was a lot more hurt by the accusations he leveled at me last night then what caused the disagreements in the first place. His reactions also make me feel like I only have the tip of the iceberg and that there is other stuff I don't know...and don't want to know. :smallannoyed:

My mom evidently was surprised that I had wanted to stay friends. Part of me wants to try again at being friends, but I know he's going to do exactly what my ex did: just keep trying to pry the answers out of me to questions I don't want to give.

And this makes me terribly sad. Maybe, if given time, he can prove that he will act mature, I can let him back in, but not at the moment.

Cheers,
Syka

EDIT: There is a reason pretty much all my friends in high school were girls. *shakes head* We women can fight just as dirty as the boys, worse sometimes. My self restraint happens to be good. What I want to say to the guy I was dating and what I actually said to the guy I'm dating were different.

PhoeKun
2007-07-25, 02:39 PM
Women are people too. And certainly better people than men are.

No! Wrong! Bad Jibar! No... what sort of treats do people give cat muffins, anyway? :smallconfused:

But seriously... don't make blanket statements like that. Sexism isn't ok. Gender and sex aren't... they aren't the things that make us good or bad people. It's all the rest of it that's important.

edit: I am saddened by the fact that the only other responses to this comment were "girls can be terrible people, too! Look at [fill in blank]!" That's... come on, people, are your views on humanity really that low?

Jibar
2007-07-25, 02:43 PM
No! Wrong! Bad Jibar! No... what sort of treats do people give cat muffins, anyway? :smallconfused:

But seriously... don't make blanket statements like that. Sexism isn't ok. Gender and sex aren't... they aren't the things that make us good or bad people. It's all the rest of it that's important.

We eat eucalyptus.
Well, I eat eucalyptus because the koalas just leave it lying around the castle.

And as I said, perfectly justified.
While I'm willing to admit that you guys here aren't like the men in my life, unfortunately every guy I have had the pleasure of meeting has... not done good.
Best left there, considering the nature of the boards.

InaVegt
2007-07-25, 02:45 PM
are your views on humanity really that low?

Actually, yes. I even have a theory why humanity is so much worse than it used to be, but that's a religious theory.

mudbunny
2007-07-25, 02:45 PM
And this makes me terribly sad. Maybe, if given time, he can prove that he will act mature, I can let him back in, but not at the moment.

Sometimes Syka, despite all of our wishes, the other person is just a jerk.

If you were me, I would be cutting off all contact with this guy. The only way that he can make you feel bad is if you let him. By you taking control, and cutting off contact, you will no longer be allowing him the opportunity to hurt you.

Syka
2007-07-25, 02:47 PM
Yah, lets just agree to disagree. If I went by the guys I've dated and some family members, rather than the guys I'm friends with, I'd probably feel the same way admittedly.

Make sure everything is within forum rules, remember. No thread locking, is a good thread. :smallsmile:

Mudbunny, at least until Friday I've got him as seeing me as offline on AIM and Yahoo, so unless he contacts me through Myspace or tries calling me I should be good. I'm still holding out for a few days before deleting his profile from Myspace, although it may come to that. It depends on how I handle it. With my ex, it was too tempting having access to his facebook. I might be able to handle this.

Admittedly, it's really weird not having him on my top friends, but at this point in time I don't want to see him unless I choose to look. I've only had Myspace since Nov and he's been sitting at number 2 the entire time (I've been 3 on his so, once he gets a top friends again, I'm curious to see if I've been completely dropped off there). *sigh*

Oh well, time to reevaluate, figure out the warning signs that come with this breed of Jerk, and avoid the subspecies in the future.

Cheers,
Syka

PhoeKun
2007-07-25, 02:58 PM
And as I said, perfectly justified.
While I'm willing to admit that you guys here aren't like the men in my life, unfortunately every guy I have had the pleasure of meeting has... not done good.
Best left there, considering the nature of the boards.

Well... that really sounds like something you should talk about, but I won't pursue it any farther if you'd rather I didn't. I will say, though, that if what you're saying isn't simply teenage exaggeration (and even if it is), I'm sorry you've had such unpleasant experiences. People can be jerks. Guys and girls alike. But I've known plenty of each that I can consider friends, and it's a guy I've given my heart to.

You are not justified in claiming men are universally inferior to women.

edit: And while I'm in this thread (warning: complete change of topic), I wanted to take a couple of seconds to extend just one more sympathetic hand out to Syka. This guy is clearly a jerk. But I hope that, in the coming days, things happen such as they need to so that you can walk away content.

Jibar
2007-07-25, 03:01 PM
Well... that really sounds like something you should talk about, but I won't pursue it any farther if you'd rather I didn't. I will say, though, that if what you're saying isn't simply teenage exaggeration (and even if it is), I'm sorry you've had such unpleasant experiences. People can be jerks. Guys and girls alike. But I've known plenty of each that I can consider friends, and it's a guy I've given my heart to.

You are not justified in claiming men are universally inferior to women.

I'm willing to talk about it, and probably should just to get it off my chest, but forum rules. PG-13.

I'm sorry as well, I may have forgotten the :smalltongue:
It was meant only in jest and as personal preference.
I apologise immensly for any harm done.

PhoeKun
2007-07-25, 03:07 PM
I'm willing to talk about it, and probably should just to get it off my chest, but forum rules. PG-13.

I'm sorry as well, I may have forgotten the :smalltongue:
It was meant only in jest and as personal preference.
I apologise immensly for any harm done.

I've got a PM box with a fair amount of space in it, if you'd like to talk.

But, boy, is this ever a good example of the importance of emoticons on the internets...

Hell Puppi
2007-07-25, 03:12 PM
Heh I have to believe in friendship between men and women. I currently have only 1 female friend, all the rest are guys....and it's been that way pretty much my whole life.

zeratul
2007-07-25, 03:23 PM
edit: I am saddened by the fact that the only other responses to this comment were "girls can be terrible people, too! Look at [fill in blank]!" That's... come on, people, are your views on humanity really that low?

Basically. The worlds going down hill, and it wasn't that great before.

Quincunx
2007-07-25, 03:24 PM
Until high school, I was unwilling to extend males common courtesy, let alone friendship. By the time high school ended, I had more male almost-friends than female. Nowadays, males have the majority and will keep it for the foreseeable future, since females keep dropping off the list as they lose their minds.

averagejoe
2007-07-25, 03:29 PM
Basically. The worlds going down hill, and it wasn't that great before.

People have been saying THAT since there were people. People are people, same as always. The world is the world, and little changes.

zeratul
2007-07-25, 03:31 PM
People have been saying THAT since there were people. People are people, same as always. The world is the world, and little changes.

Ok, I'll change it then.

The world is, always has been, and always will be inredibally flawed, and lame.

Syka
2007-07-25, 03:32 PM
Actually, that's very true. We're reading Medea right now in my Greek class and one of the discussions that has come up time and again is how little people have changed. The relationships that you can see between the characters and they're reactions are so similar.

I find it slightly ironic we're reading about a woman who was betrayed by the man she loved. :smallannoyed: Especially given what has occured twice within the last year to me.

But it's a really good play. If you go back and read stuff, there are so many parallels to be drawn. Euripides seems to be particularly good at characterizing both women and men how they really are. </dorkiness>

Cheers,
Syka

averagejoe
2007-07-25, 03:36 PM
Ok, I'll change it then.

The world is, always has been, and always will be inredibally flawed, and lame.

'Snot so bad, once you get the hang of it.

Anyways, flaws just make things more interesting. :smallamused:

InaVegt
2007-07-25, 03:38 PM
'Snot so bad, once you get the hang of it.

Anyways, flaws just make things more interesting. :smallamused:

I would love to meet the kind of humanity you know, as the humanity I know can't be more good than vile evil.

ForzaFiori
2007-07-25, 03:47 PM
Even then, if you have a true intimate relationship with someone, even if you were friends before, I think you cannot go back to it and forget as if nothing had happened. At least I can't. It would mean that what happened between you doesn't matter. And it would require a complete brain/heart formatting on my part.


we must be wired differently or something, b/c while no duh u cant act like nothing happened, me and my ex have actually just b/c closer friends. It hasn't really changed how we act around each other or anything. Although that may be due to the fact that when we were dating, we really didn't act much different than b4, except a little more physical.

PhoeKun
2007-07-25, 03:54 PM
Actually, that's very true. We're reading Medea right now in my Greek class and one of the discussions that has come up time and again is how little people have changed. The relationships that you can see between the characters and they're reactions are so similar.

I find it slightly ironic we're reading about a woman who was betrayed by the man she loved. :smallannoyed: Especially given what has occured twice within the last year to me.

But it's a really good play. If you go back and read stuff, there are so many parallels to be drawn. Euripides seems to be particularly good at characterizing both women and men how they really are. </dorkiness>

Cheers,
Syka

Ooh, Medea! Very good play. It might actually be fortunately timed for you, as well. It provides an interesting perspective on the feelings inherent to betrayal, don't you agree?

On the topic of women being mistreated by her lover, have you perchance read the Oresteia? As much as there is to be learned from Medea, I think there's even more to gain from comparing her to Clytemnestra...

Syka
2007-07-25, 03:56 PM
No, I haven't but we discussed it in class. Doesn't she kill Agamemnon and her kids or some such? I know Medea kills her children.

As our teacher said, he comes home and says, "Hey, take care of my mistress."

And she goes, "Oh heck no." *stabbity death*

Cheers,
Syka

averagejoe
2007-07-25, 04:01 PM
I would love to meet the kind of humanity you know, as the humanity I know can't be more good than vile evil.

I sincerely doubt that, but, then, it is in how you look at things. Just look at us, here, supporting each other, and helping each other get through the problems in our lives, if only as a sympathetic audience.

PhoeKun
2007-07-25, 04:05 PM
No, I haven't but we discussed it in class. Doesn't she kill Agamemnon and her kids or some such? I know Medea kills her children.

As our teacher said, he comes home and says, "Hey, take care of my mistress."

And she goes, "Oh heck no." *stabbity death*

Cheers,
Syka


... I want to sit in on that class. :smallbiggrin:

And that's more or less how it goes. Clytemnestra had actually been plotting the death of Agamemnon since he left for Troy, after the whole "killing his daughter to make the wind blow" fiasco. Didn't help that he came home flaunting slave women, but she already had another lover, who pinned him in a bathrobe while she took a double bladed axe to to him. In comes Orestes, who kills his mother for killing his father, and then is chased to Athens by the Erinyes. Apollo does some fancy lawyerin' at the first ever court in Athens, and Athena lets the poor boy go, changing the Erinyes into the Eumenides so they can act as the ever looming threat to those who break the law in the shining land of perfectness that is Athens.

...You can read 'Wasps' to find out how well that turns out, but I'm drifting off into another topic. It's the details of 'Agamemnon' in the Oresteia that are really what I'm driving at. There's a whole lot of anger going on, but so often, it winds up being so much better had you never acted on it...

SDF
2007-07-25, 04:05 PM
Mudbunny, at least until Friday I've got him as seeing me as offline on AIM and Yahoo, so unless he contacts me through Myspace or tries calling me I should be good. I'm still holding out for a few days before deleting his profile from Myspace, although it may come to that. It depends on how I handle it. With my ex, it was too tempting having access to his facebook. I might be able to handle this.

Admittedly, it's really weird not having him on my top friends, but at this point in time I don't want to see him unless I choose to look. I've only had Myspace since Nov and he's been sitting at number 2 the entire time (I've been 3 on his so, once he gets a top friends again, I'm curious to see if I've been completely dropped off there). *sigh*

Oh well, time to reevaluate, figure out the warning signs that come with this breed of Jerk, and avoid the subspecies in the future.

Cheers,
Syka

I'm sorry things didn't go like you wanted. :(

The MySpace "Top Friends" thing always made me laugh. "Rate your friends in a hierarchical fashion, let people know who you like best!" And I can track my friends status with girls they meet. :P

Uh, she's on his top 8. Oh, there she goes to number one. He's changed his status from single to in a relationship. And, she completely disappeared...

It's cyclical :smalltongue:

Syka
2007-07-25, 04:59 PM
I really love the class. He was talking about the institutionalized homosexuality and essentially rape in the upper classes, and said the lower classes said, "Um, yah. We don't want our kids raped." Ah, Greek drama and culture. I'll have to find the Orestia. So far I'm really enjoying this. :) I'll be taking Plato next term.

Heh. I only do the Top 4. Basically it's my best guy friend, my best girl friend, a really good guy friend from back home and a friends daughter (she made her 3 year old a Myspace...It's adorable!) now. The guy I was dating had been on there. I'm lucky enough to have friends that could care less about the whole Top Friends deal. The guy I had been dating actually took all co-workers off his top friends because he moved some around and two people got really pissed at him for not being on there. *shakes head*

I honestly, don't really pay attention to Top Friends often. I was actually shocked to see how many peoples Top lists I made it on to. :smalleek:

But yes, Boy sucks at the moment. *grumbles and goes back to studying*

Cheers,
Syka

Logic
2007-07-25, 05:06 PM
For everyone that gets mad about not being on my top whatever, I remove them from my friends list entirely. I don't need that drama, especially over somethnig so trivial

That being said, my brother is my first friend on my top whatever. I've only known him his whole life.

Back on topic: Sorry to hear about it Syka. I don't think I can actually offer any advice beyond try to salvage the friendship after you have both cooled your jets. He needs to get over being angry right now, and you need to wait till you are done hurting.

SDF
2007-07-25, 05:07 PM
I don't have a visible top friends list, I think they are silly, especially when people complain that they aren't on it.

And I found a picture that accurately describes how I feel!
http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/012105/i-love-you-like-i-love-my-brother.gif

Vampiric
2007-07-25, 05:20 PM
^ oh hell yes! hehe. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and I'm available for pm, syka (for the thread), or anyone else here.

ForzaFiori
2007-07-25, 05:21 PM
i happen to have 24 great friends that are on my myspace, so i just put them up there in the order that they added me.
except for the top line, who is the chick i like, and 3 ppl in my band.

Pyrian
2007-07-25, 05:44 PM
Even then, if you have a true intimate relationship with someone, even if you were friends before, I think you cannot go back to it and forget as if nothing had happened. At least I can't. It would mean that what happened between you doesn't matter. And it would require a complete brain/heart formatting on my part.Nothing is ever as if nothing had happened. But that doesn't make it unsalvageable - just harder.


I think of a love relationship as something more than a friendship with that person.No offense, but... Duh. :smallcool:


Besides, can you not be friends with your gf/bf?Oh, heck yeah. :smallbiggrin: I mean, I wouldn't go there, but I can definitely see the appeal.


All said, I don't know if *I* believe in friendship between men and women.Remind me to tell all my women friends that you don't believe in them. I think they'll find that amusing. Or did you just phrase that badly, and were only talking about your own relationships? Because, yeah, I know some guys who are never friends with women except in that they want in their pants, which is basically what it sounds like you're talking about, here.


I may sound awful, but to some extent, and to be honest with myself, I can tell that there's some level of attraction with the women I relate to. Attraction at different levels, after all you are friends with people you like, aren't you?That's no standard at all. That would include all my friends, male, female, pets, abtract art, gravity, whatever. I have female friends to whom I have no sexual attraction. And, for that matter, I have female friends to whom I'm very sexually attracted. And you know what? They're good, true, valued, cherished friends, and that has little or nothing to do with sex.

Syka
2007-07-25, 05:54 PM
It's the When Harry Met Sally logic. Women and men can be friends, but one or both are going to be sexually attracted to the other. I used to think that I had a group of friends with whom I was just one of the guys, nothing sexual. I'm beginning to think differently.

Whether admitted or not, most likely atleast one party is interested in the other. Now, whether that party will act on it is another story.

Cheers,
syka

Breaon
2007-07-25, 06:02 PM
Ok, I'll change it then.

The world is, always has been, and always will be inredibally flawed, and lame.

The world is what you make of it. If you want lemonade, then make lemonade.

Indon
2007-07-25, 06:12 PM
Hmm, relationship woes, eh? Does not-getting-into-one count? In any case...



The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.


I'm having a bit of trouble with this part, as 'being myself' does not appear to involve getting into situations in which I would meet women socially. Largely, my time is consumed by my work, the internet, and my gaming. My RL friends, though numerous, are either male, married, or both (and my preference extends to none of them).

So, I ask, how does a guy get out there and find a girl? Before you say, "Go clubbing", I give you the complications:

-I don't drink; teetotaler.
-I'm honestly not that big a fan of very loud noises, either, which eliminates most clubs and many bars.
-I'm _really_ shy.
-I'm a huge gamer (and, really, all-around nerd) and would like to meet a similarly inclined female.

I wish you luck.

Syka
2007-07-25, 06:18 PM
I like clubbing (don't drink, love dancing), but I really don't think I'd want to pick a guy up there. It's fun with friends, but not where I'd exactly want to go on a date.

Do you have a local gaming store that holds game nights, etc?

Because I'm in school, I'm not really sure what else. Others who are older than I should be able to help more.

What I mean by that though is don't make yourself someone else just for another person. If they want a preppy guy who does x, y, and z, and it doesn't include gaming, don't trash your books and get a new wardrobe. That's what that advice stems from.

Cheers,
Syka

Khantalas
2007-07-25, 06:19 PM
Ah, see, I have the perfect girl for you, but I took her first. Sorry about that. :smalltongue:

Your best bet is, well, here. You get to know people by posting around, then you enjoy responding to someone and find her responds to you interesting, you PM her, see if she'd like to be friends, get her e-mail and stuff. You chat with her outside the forums, get to know each other better, then who knows, there might be a mutual increase in the level of interest and bam, we've got ourself a new couple.

Seriously, GitP is the best place to go clubbing for our kind of people. Not that I'd know, of course. I've never been to any kind of clubbing.

ForzaFiori
2007-07-25, 06:22 PM
It's the When Harry Met Sally logic. Women and men can be friends, but one or both are going to be sexually attracted to the other. I used to think that I had a group of friends with whom I was just one of the guys, nothing sexual. I'm beginning to think differently.

Whether admitted or not, most likely atleast one party is interested in the other. Now, whether that party will act on it is another story.

Cheers,
syka

i can actually think of 1 occasion when i highly doubt that to be true.
one of my best friends gf and i are fairly good friends, and even before they went out, i doubt either of us thought of the other in that sense. i didn't like her that way b/c i'm...well, i'm a shallow bastard, and i dont thinks she's hot. I doubt she likes me as she has got it in her head that i'm a smart ass and slightly annoying due to it. (way to true probably.).

Alarra
2007-07-25, 06:33 PM
1) There are other options for seduction songs than Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters". It's a great song. I like it. Nevertheless, a song associated with the memories of every other guy that's tried it on your woman is not setting the mood you desire.

Am I odd in that I've never even thought of this song in the context of a seduction song, nor had it tried on me?

And also, Syka....
One important thing to remember, at least that I've always found, is that when a relationship first ends, things are strained and hard, and people can be jerks and say things that they don't mean.....but given a bit more time, can fall back into a friendship. I know that when Chris and I first broke up, we actually managed to remain friends, but then we went through a period of fighting and hating each other and I know that I had the intention of never speaking to him again. And now we're good friends again. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time, and if you like them as a person, can be worth it.

And it's perfectly possible to remain friends with an ex. I'm pretty good friends with a fair number of my exes.

And also have guy friends to which there is no sexual interest on either side. I mean, yeah...it's rare, but it can happen.

And myspace in general is a ridiculous popularity contest and I find the idea of rating ones 'top friends' silly. That being said, I can't help but pay attention to where I am on other people's lists and organize mine according to how good of friends I am with any person at a given time.

SDF
2007-07-25, 06:37 PM
When it comes to changing who you are... well there are things you like, hobbies, clothes, music, ect. And throughout your life those things change constantly. Changing something you like doesn't change who you are. Then you have your beliefs, which usually change little throughout your life, but some of them often do change, and while that change can be a bit more personal it isn't down to your core. Change enough of them and you can seem like a different person though. Finally, you have your values. Unless you have a complete paradigm shift or some kind of brain trauma it is almost impossible to change a value, though it does happen. Or, that's how I see it.

Stay what you are.


Ah, see, I have the perfect girl for you, but I took her first. Sorry about that. :smalltongue:

Your best bet is, well, here. You get to know people by posting around, then you enjoy responding to someone and find her responds to you interesting, you PM her, see if she'd like to be friends, get her e-mail and stuff. You chat with her outside the forums, get to know each other better, then who knows, there might be a mutual increase in the level of interest and bam, we've got ourself a new couple.

Seriously, GitP is the best place to go clubbing for our kind of people. Not that I'd know, of course. I've never been to any kind of clubbing.

Not too sure about that. There are a lot of cool cats here, (and various other animals) but "our kind" of people seems to vary a lot. I find myself liking completely different things, and believing something different than a lot of forumites. The forum touches on some hobbies I like and have, but I like a plethora of other things too. At least for me, an online relationship would be hard(read: not impossible or out of the question) do to the lack of physical contact which, while I can do without, is important to me.

Never done a lot of clubbing, can't go to most until I'm 21... But I do go to a lot of the "rock" shows.

Khantalas
2007-07-25, 06:44 PM
Not too sure about that. There are a lot of cool cats here, (and various other animals) but "our kind" of people seems to vary a lot.

Our kind is defined as "doesn't drink, not a fan of loud noises, really shy and gamer", of course. After that, it is subject to certain variations.

SDF
2007-07-25, 06:46 PM
Our kind is defined as "doesn't drink, not a fan of loud noises, really shy and gamer", of course. After that, it is subject to certain variations.

Well I guess I'm not our kind then,(ONE OF US, ONE OF US) I love loud noises and the children's rock music. I've been better about the shy bit too.

Hell Puppi
2007-07-25, 06:47 PM
I'm not a huge fan of clubbing, but when one of your friends is a fairly popular DJ, you get drug a lot of places. I enjoy the dancing a whole bunch, but most of the other things I could live without.
Being who you are varies. I like the advice because changing everything about yourself to suit someone is generally retarded. I can't really think of a better descriptive term. In a relationship it's expected that you're going to have to change a bit to suit each other, but changing your entire self, unless your entire self is a jack-ass, is over-doing it.
Like me. I got into a relationship with a fairly controlling person. I'm rather reserved, somewhat quiet. He hated that. He also disliked girls with short hair and tattoos. He was also the person who suggested dating in the first place. It made absolutely no sense, and i'm not going to change my basic personality to suit someone when they don't seem to like the real me in the first place.
I guess my basic advice is to find things things that are you, your ideals and your likes and dislikes. If someone wants to change what's truly important to you, they're probably not worth your time.

Pyrian
2007-07-25, 07:49 PM
Hmm, relationship woes, eh? Does not-getting-into-one count? In any case...That has been more the rule than the exception.


So, I ask, how does a guy get out there and find a girl?In general, go to places where large numbers of people congregate who share your interests. Right here has worked for some people. Also, there are conventions, though even that might be too social for you if you're very shy. Then, surprisingly, MMO's have worked for more than a few people. The reality is that the numbers game is not in your favor - there are more men that fit your general description (which frankly sounds a lot like Asperger's Syndrome) than women. So, you're going to have to meet even more people than you might otherwise.


I wish you luck....And you, sir.

Hell Puppi
2007-07-25, 08:08 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c112/EvilSpud/Cats/n514756948_26786_2777.jpg

Yeah. I've got something that SHOULD be an easy fix, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
I've posted before on the other incarnation of this thread about someone who's wronged me personally, taken advantage of my kindness, and basically someone who I can't stand to have within my sight.
Here's the problem: my friend's, Zach and Bea, are having their wedding in September, and this person is invited and unless something drastic is to happen, will defiantly be there. This wedding will be full of friends that I haven't seen in months (and a few I haven't seen in almost a year), so bowing out isn't an option ( and basically I've been told that I'm being dragged along no matter what- I've thought about missing it for the sake of a peaceful wedding).
I'm thinking of just ignoring this person and avoiding their, and their presence. I would simply pretend to be kind for the sake of my friends, but more than I are bound to have problems with this person (half the wedding party is disgusted with her as well), and I every time I have offered my hand in an attempt at reconciliation, I've come back missing a few fingers.
Sooo...ignoring? Avoiding alcohol in order to circumvent a mess? (the wedding's in reno, too...we want to stop by vegas and maybe go to the star trek bar..-_-;;) Anyone else have a better idea?

FdL
2007-07-25, 08:37 PM
There will be attraction, however dim. I'm attracted to all my girls, but I also know that given the option, I wouldn't date them.


Hmm...It depends on who we're talking about. It's not like I'd have a go why just anyone. Or that I only make friends with cute girls, it's not like that.



It doesn't hurt to see women as women at all. Hell, I think I'm only so close to my girls because they're women.


Well I don't think that's a bad thing.



But don't think that just because they're women you're meant to jump all over them at every option. Women are people too. And certainly better people than men are.

Hmmm, those are contradictory. Women are people. Which to me means that they can be good or bad and everything in between.


I make friends with women much more easily than with men, and it doesn't have to be women I find attractive (although that's one of many things that helps slightly).

I don't relate only to women I find attractive. And now that you mention it, I always related better to women than to men, apart from the attraction (or is it????)


The moral of these two posts is that women are different (ie, they're women), but not so different as to not be people.




I dunno, I'm really not sure if he's "moved on" like he said last night, but I think the sting of me finding out hasn't gone away. But I think I was a lot more hurt by the accusations he leveled at me last night then what caused the disagreements in the first place. His reactions also make me feel like I only have the tip of the iceberg and that there is other stuff I don't know...and don't want to know. :smallannoyed:


Well, it probably feels awful, but it's better to know these things before you went too deep with him. After all dating is to tentatively know how the other person is, so you can choose to form a couple or not.



And this makes me terribly sad. Maybe, if given time, he can prove that he will act mature, I can let him back in, but not at the moment.


I sometimes sound like the bringer of black clouds, but I think it's better not to think about tomorrow in these situations. You just got to live with the "no". Today. And tomorrow will come. But don't be hung on tomorrow because it will hurt the now. And this I know very well because I've been there. And it sucks. Hope is a bad thing sometimes, when it works against you.

So take your time, Syka and let it heal. One day you'll realize you've learned things with this experience, and it will help you to better know what you want and what you don't want.

Syka
2007-07-25, 08:54 PM
Yah.

It also helps I've got a girl friend whose actually going through something very similar (kind of a hybrid of my two breakups in that this one just happened, but she was with the guy for two years when he cheated, like I was with my first ex). So I think this weekend might end up being a girls thing. :) I won't bash much, since she is good friends with one of his old friends (I'm fairly certain contact between him and his friend isn't incredibly consistent and such). But I don't want to risk it.

But she will hear the bear minimum and there will be general "boys suck" talk. :smallwink:

Sorry boys, but this is what girls do after break ups. I'm sure you guys have similar things.

Cheers,
Syka

FdL
2007-07-25, 09:10 PM
No offense, but... Duh. :smallcool:





Oh, heck yeah. :smallbiggrin: I mean, I wouldn't go there, but I can definitely see the appeal.


Sorry, I didn't get this.



Remind me to tell all my women friends that you don't believe in them. I think they'll find that amusing. Or did you just phrase that badly, and were only talking about your own relationships?


I'm talking about ME and women.



Because, yeah, I know some guys who are never friends with women except in that they want in their pants, which is basically what it sounds like you're talking about, here.


Not exactly. The way you put it makes me feel insulted.
Far from the truth, I don't hit on every woman I meet and I'm not a cold blooded SOB who approaches women compulsively just to "get into their pants". I'm just honestly explaining how I find that attraction plays a very important role in my relations with women. And besides I really get along better with women. Not flirting all the time, mind you :smallannoyed:



That's no standard at all. That would include all my friends, male, female, pets, abtract art, gravity, whatever. I have female friends to whom I have no sexual attraction. And, for that matter, I have female friends to whom I'm very sexually attracted. And you know what? They're good, true, valued, cherished friends, and that has little or nothing to do with sex.

Dude, what I mean here about "liking" someone is not restricted to sexual attraction. Sexual attraction is just a part of "liking". With your pet or abstract art it's obvious that we're not talking about sexual attraction, but it's still within "liking".

Flakey
2007-07-25, 09:44 PM
Sooo...ignoring? Avoiding alcohol in order to circumvent a mess? (the wedding's in reno, too...we want to stop by vegas and maybe go to the star trek bar..-_-;;) Anyone else have a better idea?

I would say this is your friends big day, so try to be polite, but restrict contact to just a hello if you do bump into the person you do not get on with. Drink, but if you one of the people that can not hold thier mouths while drunk, just drink a little.

Syka
2007-07-25, 09:51 PM
I would just try my best to avoid them, while not being unpolite. Say hi if you must but then wander away purposefully, even if it is just to the restroom to check your eye make up, you know, just in case. ;) If you can't hold your alcohol, I would suggest not drinking. If you can, I still suggest not drinking. I've found tense situations only get tenser when drinking is involved.

Cheers,
Syka

Hell Puppi
2007-07-25, 10:10 PM
Good plan. I can hold quite a bit of alcohol, which is my problem. I shall avoid it.

*sigh* in all honesty I'm more worried about what my friend Meagan will do than I. She's like me, except about 80 times more evil. That and she has this tendancy to be mean and up-front for me because I have a tendancy to avoid conflict like the plauge.

Ah well no matter what happens I'll do my best to be nice. Thanks guys :smallbiggrin:

PS- I know it's not happening for a while, but I'll post pics and such whenever the wedding's done =P. No matter what I think it's going to be a heck of a time.

FdL
2007-07-25, 10:10 PM
I would just try my best to avoid them, while not being unpolite. Say hi if you must but then wander away purposefully, even if it is just to the restroom to check your eye make up, you know, just in case. ;) If you can't hold your alcohol, I would suggest not drinking. If you can, I still suggest not drinking. I've found tense situations only get tenser when drinking is involved.


Sure...Alcohol seems to be a mood intensifier...not much more IMHO.

For Puppi, I'd say obviously go, but be careful and try to avoid uncomfortable situations. Without hiding or generally having to devote too much energy or thought to someone you don't like. Just enjoy the day, I'm sure you can handle it all.


Pup-Edit:

Good plan. I can hold quite a bit of alcohol, which is my problem. I shall avoid it.


If you think it could make the situation get out of your hands yes.



*sigh* in all honesty I'm more worried about what my friend Meagan will do than I. She's like me, except about 80 times more evil. That and she has this tendancy to be mean and up-front for me because I have a tendancy to avoid conflict like the plauge.


It's good to avoid conflict, but it can get unhealthy. Like I say, some things do not deserve wasting too much energy in them. If you're going to be super-aware of the guy and that doesn't let you have a good time, it'd a pity.



PS- I know it's not happening for a while, but I'll post pics and such whenever the wedding's done =P. No matter what I think it's going to be a heck of a time.

Wiiiiii ^^

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-25, 10:24 PM
I used to have a lot of female friends, but now that I have a serious girlfriend, I realize that they weren't so much friends but semi-regular hookups or girls I strung along during more exclusive relationships.

Hell Puppi
2007-07-25, 10:28 PM
Wiiiiii ^^

Knowing my friends, there will probably be a Wii somewhere...

Oh. You meant have a good time. Sorry I can't pick up/invite random people. :smalltongue: I'm just excited to go and see everyone, and this came as a bit of a surprise.

As usual, you guys all have excellent advice. :smallbiggrin:

SDF
2007-07-25, 10:31 PM
I went to a wedding last August and say friends I hadn't seen in 5 years... it was nice, thought life there seemed almost dystopian from what I remember. A lot of my friends are getting married, and most of them can't even drink yet... :smallsigh:

Anyway enjoy it.

zeratul
2007-07-25, 11:03 PM
Advice time, well things are going great with the girl I like, we've been watching movies, baking, playing guitar hero, and talking alot. However, it's all been done at my house. I wasn't sure weather or not to ask if she wants to hang out at barnes and noble or something. I also still can't tell if there is any trace of attraction for me.

Oh, and remember I'm 14ish.

Dementrius
2007-07-25, 11:05 PM
Hmm, relationship woes, eh? Does not-getting-into-one count? In any case...



I'm having a bit of trouble with this part, as 'being myself' does not appear to involve getting into situations in which I would meet women socially. Largely, my time is consumed by my work, the internet, and my gaming. My RL friends, though numerous, are either male, married, or both (and my preference extends to none of them).

So, I ask, how does a guy get out there and find a girl? Before you say, "Go clubbing", I give you the complications:

-I don't drink; teetotaler.
-I'm honestly not that big a fan of very loud noises, either, which eliminates most clubs and many bars.
-I'm _really_ shy.
-I'm a huge gamer (and, really, all-around nerd) and would like to meet a similarly inclined female.

I wish you luck.

Some of this guy's blog topics are frickin' hilarious, but this one is probably some of the best advice you can get.

http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2006/11/the_very_best_p.html

FdL
2007-07-25, 11:25 PM
Oh. You meant have a good time. Sorry I can't pick up/invite random people. :smalltongue:


Oh, so you would invite me if I was less random? Nice ^^
(hmmm...I'm starting to sound like D'anna Biers)




As usual, you guys all have excellent advice. :smallbiggrin:

I can't take any credit, I'm just me. But people around here sure are nice. And well, you don't deserve any less than excellent advice :) Don't settle for bland advice! They look very similar! Look for the barcode. :P



I wasn't sure weather or not to ask if she wants to hang out at barnes and noble or something.


What do people do at a Barnes & Noble??? Get some coffee, shop around?
Well that's ok, but my advice is don't do anything that you don't usually do...
Unless it's a date. Or a "date". There it's important to make a difference I guess. Because it's a different situation.

zeratul
2007-07-25, 11:31 PM
I tend to hang out at barnes and noble, they let you read stuff in the cafe at the one I go to.

Also, I'm not really sure weather they are dates or not. They've been called dates by others. But I and her have never dicussed the nature of these get togethers.

FdL
2007-07-25, 11:36 PM
I tend to hang out at barnes and noble, they let you read stuff in the cafe at the one I go to.

Cool then, do that. Invite her to hang out with you there.

(Excuse me for my ignorance, we don't have those kind of places around here. :p)


Edit: They are "dates" then ;)
I knew this was the case. Been there.
Well, I guess it's ok to begin with. Eventually you'll see if it evolves into a situation where you feel comfortable enough to tell her that you like her. But don't stress yourself, have fun.

zeratul
2007-07-25, 11:46 PM
Cool then, do that. Invite her to hang out with you there.

(Excuse me for my ignorance, we don't have those kind of places around here. :p)


Edit: They are "dates" then ;)
I knew this was the case. Been there.
Well, I guess it's ok to begin with. Eventually you'll see if it evolves into a situation where you feel comfortable enough to tell her that you like her. But don't stress yourself, have fun.

Actually she already know I like her. All of the hanging out happened after I told her this.

However I haven't gotten up the pluck to ask her if she likes me at all. But we've only been going this for a month.

Pyrian
2007-07-26, 02:41 AM
I would simply pretend to be kind for the sake of my friends, but more than I are bound to have problems with this person...I think you've got the right idea, here. It's a very special day for someone who is neither of you. Don't start anything, and don't encourage anything starting, and if something does start take the high road no matter what. A wedding is not a long period of time.


I'm talking about ME and women.Yeah, I figured that might be the case, but what you wrote was "men and women".


The way you put it makes me feel insulted.I am not good at mincing words. :smallredface: The logic, however, still stands, as I will explain:


Far from the truth, I don't hit on every woman I meet and I'm not a cold blooded SOB who approaches women compulsively just to "get into their pants". I'm just honestly explaining how I find that attraction plays a very important role in my relations with women. And besides I really get along better with women. Not flirting all the time, mind you :smallannoyed:This doesn't add up very well with your statement that you don't believe in friendship between yourself and women. If you get along better with them and aren't trying to get into their pants, then how can you say you don't believe in friendship? One of those has to give. Either you can be friends with them, or you're always trying to get into their pants, or there's some other reason being sexually attracted to them means you can't be friends that you simply haven't gotten across yet.

So, when you said you can't be friends with women due to attraction, my natural conclusion was a variant on the usual case as illustrated by Tor the Fallen:
I used to have a lot of female friends, but now that I have a serious girlfriend, I realize that they weren't so much friends but semi-regular hookups or girls I strung along during more exclusive relationships.


Dude, what I mean here about "liking" someone is not restricted to sexual attraction....And therefore is not exclusive to women. You can't use "liking" in the general sense to explain why you believe in being friends with other men but not women, because you can "like" in the general sense either. The distinction must, by plain definition, be sexual.

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-26, 03:14 AM
Actually she already know I like her. All of the hanging out happened after I told her this.

However I haven't gotten up the pluck to ask her if she likes me at all. But we've only been going this for a month.I may be way off base here, but in my experience her agreeing to spend time with you after you confess an attraction (and she doesn't clarify otherwise immediately) generally means that it's returned on some level. At the worst, she doesn't see you the same way but seems to like hanging out with you and that can't be a bad thing, right?

Vampiric
2007-07-26, 04:14 AM
Dammit, Zeb, you got there first. Yeah, zeratul - what he^ said. At the very least, you've got a friend who appreciates you telling her the truth.

Fdl - pretty much what everyone else said (why do I always get here after almost everyone else on this thread has posted?!:smallannoyed:) Have a good time, and avoid the object of displeasure, except maybe a polite 'hello' if a meeting is inevitable.

mudbunny
2007-07-26, 07:52 AM
Mudbunny, at least until Friday I've got him as seeing me as offline on AIM and Yahoo, so unless he contacts me through Myspace or tries calling me I should be good. I'm still holding out for a few days before deleting his profile from Myspace, although it may come to that. It depends on how I handle it. With my ex, it was too tempting having access to his facebook. I might be able to handle this.

I don't know if until Friday would be long enough. Personally, I would give it a couple of weeks. If he really is thinking that you are hiding things from him, a couple of days with no contact might be interpreted by him as you hiding something from him. It might need to be longer for him to clue in to the fact that you just don't want contact with him.


Oh well, time to reevaluate, figure out the warning signs that come with this breed of Jerk, and avoid the subspecies in the future.


Sometimes, the only warning is hindsight.

mudbunny
2007-07-26, 07:58 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c112/EvilSpud/Cats/n514756948_26786_2777.jpg

Yeah. I've got something that SHOULD be an easy fix, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
I've posted before on the other incarnation of this thread about someone who's wronged me personally, taken advantage of my kindness, and basically someone who I can't stand to have within my sight.
Here's the problem: my friend's, Zach and Bea, are having their wedding in September, and this person is invited and unless something drastic is to happen, will defiantly be there. This wedding will be full of friends that I haven't seen in months (and a few I haven't seen in almost a year), so bowing out isn't an option ( and basically I've been told that I'm being dragged along no matter what- I've thought about missing it for the sake of a peaceful wedding).
I'm thinking of just ignoring this person and avoiding their, and their presence. I would simply pretend to be kind for the sake of my friends, but more than I are bound to have problems with this person (half the wedding party is disgusted with her as well), and I every time I have offered my hand in an attempt at reconciliation, I've come back missing a few fingers.
Sooo...ignoring? Avoiding alcohol in order to circumvent a mess? (the wedding's in reno, too...we want to stop by vegas and maybe go to the star trek bar..-_-;;) Anyone else have a better idea?

Go to the wedding anyways. If you don't go, you are letting this person control your life. However, once at the wedding, ignore her. She does not exist. Don't drink, as that path can only lead to trouble in this situation.

Remember, you are there to support your friends on their journey into a new stage in their relationship, not to re-hash old problems with this woman.

mudbunny
2007-07-26, 09:06 AM
Advice time, well things are going great with the girl I like, we've been watching movies, baking, playing guitar hero, and talking alot. However, it's all been done at my house. I wasn't sure weather or not to ask if she wants to hang out at barnes and noble or something. I also still can't tell if there is any trace of attraction for me.

Oh, and remember I'm 14ish.

Go for it. As others have said, if she didn't like you (as a friend), she wouldn't be hanging out with you so much. Take the next step and move on to B&N.

jazz1m
2007-07-26, 01:00 PM
... I want to sit in on that class. :smallbiggrin:

And that's more or less how it goes. Clytemnestra had actually been plotting the death of Agamemnon since he left for Troy, after the whole "killing his daughter to make the wind blow" fiasco. Didn't help that he came home flaunting slave women, but she already had another lover, who pinned him in a bathrobe while she took a double bladed axe to to him. In comes Orestes, who kills his mother for killing his father, and then is chased to Athens by the Erinyes. Apollo does some fancy lawyerin' at the first ever court in Athens, and Athena lets the poor boy go, changing the Erinyes into the Eumenides so they can act as the ever looming threat to those who break the law in the shining land of perfectness that is Athens.


Not sure if this was corrected, but in fact ATHENA does the lawyering, and the furies let Orestes go on account of killing his mother is in fact not a blood crime (and Athena also threatened them).

Apollo in fact only cleanses Orestes.

Syka
2007-07-26, 01:12 PM
Eh, I decided to say "whatever" and just let myself be visible. He didn't end up IMing me until late last night (I'd say around 10ish), and I was studying so I told him that. Afterwards we talked for a little bit. It went ok. I'm still on guard, though, because last time there was a day inbetween our two fights. If he tries it again tonight, I'm telling him we can argue to his hearts content on Friday, but I have a test to study for. If he has decided to drop it, then that's ok. --' I hoping he has just dropped it. I'm still going to be wary in our conversations and such for a while, though.

My mom and I talked about it and agreed if he can drop it, then allow the friendship to continue, but if it even starts to happen to let him know friendship isn't going to work. Now let us hope that tempers can be kept in check.


Zeratul, if she knew before you guys started hanging out, she probably likes you, too. But why not ask? Worst that happens is she doesn't like you romantically but does as a friend. And in that case, you've gained a friend. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Vuzzmop
2007-07-26, 06:19 PM
There will be attraction, however dim. I'm attracted to all my girls, but I also know that given the option, I wouldn't date them.
I'm desperate and lonely yes, but they're friends first.
You can't help attraction, it's a natural thing and will happen no matter what you try, but it doesn't mean you can't be friends.
It doesn't hurt to see women as women at all. Hell, I think I'm only so close to my girls because they're women. But don't think that just because they're women you're meant to jump all over them at every option. Women are people too. And certainly better people than men are.

That's horrible. I just want you to know how horribly sexist that is, and remind you that you are talking about just over 50% of the worlds population. Most people are not that horrible, so what do you have against my gender? We aren't all the same, and women have a reputation for being b***** as well. I ask that you refrain from that sort of sexist comment in future.

yours sincerely
An insulted Vuzzmop

Syka
2007-07-26, 06:25 PM
Oooooo kay. Let's all please get off this topic. It's been beat to death, everything that can be said has been said thrice, and I'm kinda scared this could possibly lead to thread lockage. :smallsmile:

Moving on, nothing to see. *moves everyone away from the police tape*

Cheers,
Syka

zeratul
2007-07-26, 06:54 PM
Seriously, there are people who actually find the thread usefull. It's not here for flaming, trolling, or anything like that. So stop doing all of the above, we don't want it locked!

Syka
2007-07-26, 10:42 PM
I'm trying to remember who it was, but someone on these threads a while back (I think), mentioned that they used to use creatine (a dietary supplement to build muscle) and they found themselves more irritable while using it. I was wondering who it was. Because he apologized again tonight, and jokingly made a reference that his brother and he had discussed it and attributed it to roid rage in the form of creatine since he'd had more than the recommend dosage (he did clarify it with, he wasn't blaming it on that, just joking). Until I said I'd heard that it can cause mood issues. He was surprised.

Except it took me googling, "emotional side effects of creatine" to get even anecdotal evidence, and it was only on one page. *shakes head* This is why I don't put stuff in my body that I don't know what it will do. I'm probably going to bring it up again at some point in the future, if only to ask that he not take more than the recommended dose.

Cheers,
Syka

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-26, 11:06 PM
RE: Creatine

That was me, Syka. I didn't read anything that said it could do that, but all the evidence suggests to me that creatine was the problem. I also want to make sure that I'm clear that I also know several people who use it with no problems whatsoever so I wouldn't declare it a bad product, just a bad product for me, and possibly for your friend also.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-26, 11:48 PM
Go to the wedding anyways. If you don't go, you are letting this person control your life. However, once at the wedding, ignore her. She does not exist. Don't drink, as that path can only lead to trouble in this situation.

Remember, you are there to support your friends on their journey into a new stage in their relationship, not to re-hash old problems with this woman.

Nah.
Tor recommends you crush your enemy publically, and the wedding is precisely the place where you can get away with this.

Now, it may be counter-intutive; it's supposed to be a perfect day and all. For the bride. After your morph into a boozehounding-expletive spewing-bitchslapping-hair pulling-chair throwing destructosaurus and consequent rampage, you have some very convienent excuses.
1. You're a woman, sometimes your emotions get the better than you.
2. It was a wedding, your womanly emotions were running high.
3. School and the break up has your womanly emotions all stressed out.

It's win-win. You get drunk AND smash some dumb bitch AND don't get in trouble, AND probably hook up.

I say go for it. You've got nothing to lose, but a lot to gain. If you're lucky, you'll never have to attend a wedding again (except maybe your own), and thus avoid these sticky social situations all together.

FdL
2007-07-27, 12:17 AM
Oh. Just realized, HellPuppi. You nemesis is a "she", not a guy. Sorry, I work the forums late.

Hell Puppi
2007-07-27, 01:09 AM
S'arright FdL, You took the time to read my bitching and I'm never precisely clear when it comes to my wording. :smallwink:

And Tor, destroying a wedding...that ALMOST sounds fun enough to be worth it...'destructosaurus' hehehe....
Zach would kill me though, he's big. O_o

Syka
2007-07-27, 07:06 AM
RE: Creatine

That was me, Syka. I didn't read anything that said it could do that, but all the evidence suggests to me that creatine was the problem. I also want to make sure that I'm clear that I also know several people who use it with no problems whatsoever so I wouldn't declare it a bad product, just a bad product for me, and possibly for your friend also.

I know it's probably fine for most people. Just a little warning flag went off in my head because of what I'd heard from you, and I'd never seen anything before the last couple of weeks to make me think he'd act like this. So I'm wondering if he hasn't started taking more. *shrug*

Thank, though. :)

Hellpuppi, destructosaurus. Only if you can destroy the ENTIRE wedding and the building that it is in, would I recommend that. ;) If only cause then no one'll mess with you.

Cheers,
Syka

mudbunny
2007-07-27, 07:47 AM
It's win-win. You get drunk AND smash some dumb bitch AND don't get in trouble, AND probably hook up.

I say go for it. You've got nothing to lose, but a lot to gain. If you're lucky, you'll never have to attend a wedding again (except maybe your own), and thus avoid these sticky social situations all together.

There is very much a lose. It is her friend's wedding.

Now I don't know about you, but if a friend of mine had come to my wedding and went out of his/her way to ruin it (and getting into a big fight is, most definitely, ruining the wedding), that person wouldn't be a friend for much longer.

Syka
2007-07-27, 02:42 PM
In highly unlikely turn of events, I shall be telling him this evening once he returns from his concert (or tomorrow, which is just as likely), that right now...I need to just have some space. I still want to be friends, but eventually.

My reasoning...There's just stuff I want to ask him, that I know I shouldn't and don't really want to, so I need time to let stuff settle down. It'll also help me just figure out my own stuff.

Once I think I'm there, I'll IM or call him again and see if he's willing to try to be friends again. But if it has to happen right now...I don't think I can do it. Which sucks for me, cause I still don't want to lose him as a friend. :smallannoyed: Ah well, must do what is mentally best, I guess.

Cheers,
Syka

FdL
2007-07-27, 03:37 PM
HellPuppi, if you do decide to wreck the wedding, the more reasons to take pics of it and post them ^^ I can just picture flowers and chunks of wedding cake flying around :) (j/k of course, let there be peace and happiness, etc)

Syka, it's good that you know what to do. It's hard, but if you've made the decision in your mind I guess the best would be to take advantage of the momentum you might have, to take it out of your system. 'Cause thinking too much is generally for worse.

Logic
2007-07-27, 04:33 PM
'Cause thinking too much is generally for worse.
When it comes to relationships, people usually don't think enough. That is why you will see two people together long after they should have called it off because they are miserable.

Now, I agree that thinking too much can be a problem as well, this usually tends to be my problem. But you can't let your emotions get the better of you when it comes to break-ups. Most of the time you are hurt and/or angry, and many a person does not do that which is best for themselves at this point.

All in all, I think Syka is doing the right thing. Cool your jets, and then try to salvage what you can.

FdL
2007-07-27, 04:42 PM
When it comes to relationships, people usually don't think enough. That is why you will see two people together long after they should have called it off because they are miserable.

Now, I agree that thinking too much can be a problem as well, this usually tends to be my problem. But you can't let your emotions get the better of you when it comes to break-ups. Most of the time you are hurt and/or angry, and many a person does not do that which is best for themselves at this point.

All in all, I think Syka is doing the right thing. Cool your jets, and then try to salvage what you can.

I'm talking about the point in which thinking instead of acting is a bad thing, because it paralyzes you, enlargens your fears and doubts and maybe give you false hopes, or make you get too carried on about something. That is, being basically self torture. :s

I understand what you say. But I think it's usually better to be able to talk to the other person, to get your thoughts out of your head instead of letting them tangle inside and rot. And doing is even better than talking. But then again some behaviours are often misinterpreted and must be explained.

This is all from my personal experience, and in my humble opinion, and maybe applies only to me.

Syka
2007-07-27, 05:07 PM
I know what both of you are saying, and my problem is generally overthinking. For some reason, when it comes to romantic situations I'm a really odd mix of practical (I know I'll be fine, move on, etc) and just...stupid I guess, in that I wish to salvage what I can. It's why I'm proud of myself for calling it off, because in my last relationship I should have, but I didn't because I thought it could be saved.

I know that what I want to say to him would NOT be good if I want to get a friendship out of this (plus I don't really want to say it, the hurt part of me does), and I know if I can't control it then I need to seperate myself from the situation for a little bit. That being said, I think I'm going to give it a day or two more. See how I handle it now that the stress of a test is over and I have the weekend to relax.

I still think it will happen, though. One can only hope he'll understand.

Cheers,
Syka

Vampiric
2007-07-27, 05:39 PM
hmmm, not sure if this is a woe or just random burbling, but I just saw 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind' - bloody brilliant film, and a total head****. I loved it. However, if you take the basic parts of Kate Winslet and Jim Carrey, that was me and my recent ex (about a month ago, or a bit less.) And its just made me think about us again, though I'm not sure if that's a good thing. Just thinking about the whole 'second chance' thing, and it's given me a whole new perspective on the relationship and myself. And the way it finishes, with Clementine saying about how the relationship is doomed, and Joel says, 'Okay', and they both laugh at the absurdity of it.

That's the problem for me. I realised I want the second chance. If she asked to get back together, I'd say yes before she could finish the question... Yet at the same time, I need to move on, or I know I'll be stuck, emotionally, for a long time.

Sorry, I guess this is more a rant and a release of my thoughts, than asking for advice.

SDF
2007-07-27, 05:40 PM
I know what both of you are saying, and my problem is generally over thinking. For some reason, when it comes to romantic situations I'm a really odd mix of practical (I know I'll be fine, move on, etc) and just...stupid I guess, in that I wish to salvage what I can. It's why I'm proud of myself for calling it off, because in my last relationship I should have, but I didn't because I thought it could be saved.

I know that what I want to say to him would NOT be good if I want to get a friendship out of this (plus I don't really want to say it, the hurt part of me does), and I know if I can't control it then I need to separate myself from the situation for a little bit. That being said, I think I'm going to give it a day or two more. See how I handle it now that the stress of a test is over and I have the weekend to relax.

I still think it will happen, though. One can only hope he'll understand.

Cheers,
Syka

I wouldn't say you're being stupid, I would classify it as more logical, and emotional. Giving it time helps, and sometimes there are issues that need to be settled before you can go back to being friends. If it is important to you I'm thinking trying to keep the friendship without settling it would be both hard and stressful.

FdL
2007-07-27, 05:52 PM
@Syka:
Well, I don't mean to say that you rush the situation. On the contrary, what I mean is that you should act in a moment where you feel you are sure about yourself and what you really want. If it's not now, as I had wrongly interpreted, of course, take your time until the moment comes.

But my advice is that don't let time and "mental chewing" of the situation make you choose something you don't want...Again, it may work differently for you than for me, but it's a difficult fight between brain and heart, and the heart sometimes plays dirty. :p

Logic
2007-07-27, 06:26 PM
I'm talking about the point in which thinking instead of acting is a bad thing, because it paralyzes you, enlargens your fears and doubts and maybe give you false hopes, or make you get too carried on about something. That is, being basically self torture. :s

I understand what you say. But I think it's usually better to be able to talk to the other person, to get your thoughts out of your head instead of letting them tangle inside and rot. And doing is even better than talking. But then again some behaviours are often misinterpreted and must be explained.

This is all from my personal experience, and in my humble opinion, and maybe applies only to me.

Inaction seems to be my problem as well. My normal routine in doing most things is to think them through very carefully prior to making a commitment to one particular action or another. This is not the best route when it comes to starting relationships, as oppurtunites often pass you by faster than you can think them through.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-27, 11:28 PM
went out of his/her way to ruin it

Since when is getting drunk and beating up wedding guests going out of one's way?

Hell Puppi
2007-07-28, 12:38 AM
I wouldn't ACTUALLY do it (start a fight, ruin the wedding, ect....)... but the mental image this conjures up needs some theme music and cool director. It's hilarious :smallbiggrin:

FdL
2007-07-28, 12:47 AM
I wouldn't ACTUALLY do it (start a fight, ruin the wedding, ect....)... but the mental image this conjures up needs some theme music and cool director. It's hilarious :smallbiggrin:

I suggest John Woo and lots of slow motion shots :D

Fallon
2007-07-28, 02:57 PM
about the wedding thingy

I had a friend who I've known for a few years who I invited to my wedding, and she ended up not coming because she thought that a friend of friend might be coming when I didn't even invite that person and she was having a mini fight with them or something. I love her to death though, and did invite her and hoped that she would come even though she can be major drama queen, but I respect her choice to stay home for what seems like such a petty reason, and didn't let her not being there get in the way of my celebrating and fun on my special day :)

Hell Puppi
2007-07-28, 06:18 PM
@^ indeed. I know this person is coming, and it's NOT my day, so I'm going to do my best to be on my best behavior (whatever that is). I'm no drama queen, it's simply the tension between me and her has grown proportionally. I'm also not an angry person, but this woman has messed with my friends, and like any good puppi, I am protective of my people.
But thank you again for everyone's input. Anyone else have any trouble that they're dealing with, or is my possible-wedding-crashing the biggest thing out there? C'mon people!

Syka
2007-07-28, 11:23 PM
cont from the Crush'd thread.

I think the reason you hear that so often, is because the bad breakups are the ones people complain about. Also, the people likely to use excuses are trying to hide something. But I know there are people who honestly do need space, or it is something with them, and has nothing to do with another person.

I also think a lot of it is that people will choose the same personality type over, and over, and over again. Unfortunately, there are also cases like mine where you get completely different personalities who end up being essentially the same in the end, with no way to determine it before hand.

My 2cp. Tomorrow I will try compiling a list of everyone interested in being a PM-getter. I seem to be getting all the automatic PM's and, while I don't mind, I'm only one person and can only give so much perspective on a given situation. It'll be beneficial for people to pick at least 2 or 3 people to get opinions from.

Cheers,
Syka

FdL
2007-07-28, 11:37 PM
cont from the Crush'd thread.

I think the reason you hear that so often, is because the bad breakups are the ones people complain about. Also, the people likely to use excuses are trying to hide something. But I know there are people who honestly do need space, or it is something with them, and has nothing to do with another person.


Yes, it could be. I just find that a lot of people are...i don't know, so dishonest with what they really want and how they feel themselves, and everything...They are like children, immature, and go around without respecting themselves or others...



I also think a lot of it is that people will choose the same personality type over, and over, and over again.
Unfortunately, there are also cases like mine where you get completely different personalities who end up being essentially the same in the end, with no way to determine it before hand.


I know. Which is saying the same thing, really :s But this can lead to think that it's one's attitudes that cause pattern repetition. I'm not saying you Syka are, just in general. It's sad but most of the time you just can't help being yourself. :(
Just a thought, I don't really know...In fact I find that I really don't know anything at all about relationships... :(
Now I'm getting depressed and I don't know why...I'll have to change threads again to the Depression one.



My 2cp. Tomorrow I will try compiling a list of everyone interested in being a PM-getter. I seem to be getting all the automatic PM's and, while I don't mind, I'm only one person and can only give so much perspective on a given situation. It'll be beneficial for people to pick at least 2 or 3 people to get opinions from.


Sure :p Sometimes I think it must be a burden for you little Syka to get all of the advice requests. For that I'm willing to help. Then again I realize that I might not have the experience or the maturity needed to give advice to anyone :(

Rex Idiotarum
2007-07-28, 11:37 PM
I love her to bits, but it isn't meant to be. Ah, so many years ago, even in my short life, I came in contact with a girl I really liked. We hung out, but we were young, Middle Schoolers. She was ripped from me, forced to move far, far away, in the land of Oklahoma.

Contact was lost for a few years, until she had boyfriend problems, and needed someone she could trust that wasn't close by, she called me, and since then I've looked for her AIM name on the Available side of my buddy list.

Well, a few months ago, she said she was coming back up for a few weeks. I was ecstatic, and, knowing she was away from here for so long, I thought of all the places in my youth that I loved, and started planning Nostalgia induced dates.

Well, now she is up here, and I've broughten here to a few places, Chowdah at Rock Bottom, Movies in Buzzard's Bay (($7.50, Movie, Popcorn and Drink included.)) Even the campground that I hang out at every week, and she went as a little kid. We spend time on the beach, and it's just fun lying there together.

So far, it's been a great week, now if I could only get her to stop talking about her boyfriend...

Syka
2007-07-29, 10:58 AM
Hey, those of you who were willing to open your PM boxes and PM'ed me about it...could you PM me again? I was trying to make space because my box is pretty full at the moment, and I just realized I think I deleted those. >< I'm sorry.

Thanks, guys.

Cheers,
Syka

SDF
2007-07-29, 11:02 AM
Well, a few months ago, she said she was coming back up for a few weeks. I was ecstatic, and, knowing she was away from here for so long, I thought of all the places in my youth that I loved, and started planning Nostalgia induced dates.

Well, now she is up here, and I've broughten here to a few places, Chowdah at Rock Bottom, Movies in Buzzard's Bay (($7.50, Movie, Popcorn and Drink included.)) Even the campground that I hang out at every week, and she went as a little kid. We spend time on the beach, and it's just fun lying there together.

Aww, that's real sweet. I'm envious. :smallsmile:

Logic
2007-07-29, 04:58 PM
MY PM box is open. Feel free to send me any woes, I like to help people out with their problems.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-30, 01:11 AM
I love her to bits, but it isn't meant to be. Ah, so many years ago, even in my short life, I came in contact with a girl I really liked. We hung out, but we were young, Middle Schoolers. She was ripped from me, forced to move far, far away, in the land of Oklahoma.

Contact was lost for a few years, until she had boyfriend problems, and needed someone she could trust that wasn't close by, she called me, and since then I've looked for her AIM name on the Available side of my buddy list.

Well, a few months ago, she said she was coming back up for a few weeks. I was ecstatic, and, knowing she was away from here for so long, I thought of all the places in my youth that I loved, and started planning Nostalgia induced dates.

Well, now she is up here, and I've broughten here to a few places, Chowdah at Rock Bottom, Movies in Buzzard's Bay (($7.50, Movie, Popcorn and Drink included.)) Even the campground that I hang out at every week, and she went as a little kid. We spend time on the beach, and it's just fun lying there together.

So far, it's been a great week, now if I could only get her to stop talking about her boyfriend...

Ask her:
"Are you happy? Is so-and-so making you happy?" Then go in for the kill.

ForzaFiori
2007-07-30, 01:51 AM
So far, it's been a great week, now if I could only get her to stop talking about her boyfriend...

there's always a dark side, isn't there?

On a note like this, a couple days ago, a friend of mine who i really like (and she knows that) calls me, to complain about a crush of her's always talking about his gf in front of her. Now, normally, i would do what i could to get her mind off of it, etc, but this time i was just stunned. She's mad at a dude she likes for talking about his gf, and yet she calls me,, who she knows likes her, to complain about the dude she wants to date. Makes me wonder what goes through ppl's heads sometimes.


oh, and like Syka and Logic, my PM box is open to anyone who wants advice or a shoulder.

Pyrian
2007-07-30, 02:29 AM
She's mad at a dude she likes for talking about his gf, and yet she calls me,, who she knows likes her, to complain about the dude she wants to date.That's kind of awesome, really. :smallcool: I do hope it helped you get over her...

My PM box is open, too. I'm probably more experienced than most of these people, but I also tend to, well, call things like I see them. :smallamused:

Logic
2007-07-30, 02:38 AM
This is probably the most profound thing I will ever say, so I suggest you pay attention. :smallwink:

Love is alot like learning to walk. Few (if any) ever get it on the first try, and usually there are a few bumps and scrapes along the way in learning.

So to all you young'uns that don't have anyone, don't fret about it too much. You just have to get to your feet and try again.

Pyrian
2007-07-30, 02:42 AM
I'm 33. Can I start fretting yet!? :smalltongue:

Dragonrider
2007-07-30, 09:43 AM
Okay, well, I posted this last night on the "crush'd" thread but it probably belongs here:

Yeah. Well, I'm sitting here crying my eyes out right now because I just found out...oh God, long story. I have this cousin who's basically a boy magnet. Six years ago she introduced me to this friend of hers, and I've been in love with him for the last two years. Well I've known for a long time that he was interested in her, and she just told me ten minutes ago that she supposedly has a huge crush on him and always has and was "only not telling him" for my sake. When a month ago she was supposedly madly in love with this other guy. So I'm heartbroken because I know he loves her and is probably on cloud nine right now, and I don't trust her with his heart at all because she's incredibly fickle...but at the same time, this summer he was finally noticing me and now she's wrecked that.

So pretty much the worst night I've had in a long time.

I've calmed down a bit now and I'm going to try to talk to my mom about it, if I can get her away from all my brothers and the people we have staying in our house right now.

I guess I just feel like a bit of an idiot, because I should have KNOWN this was going to happen, and yet I still manage to keep finding new ways to think well maybe things'll change...and I'm not really old enough for it to matter, anyway. I just keep forgetting that all the rational thoughts in the world, all the logic, isn't going to help when I get my heart broken all over again.

So any words of comfort and/or advice about what to say to him would be helpful. I don't know whether to just keep on as I have and acting like we're friends (he treats me, a lot of the time, like he might be interested...and my cousin's misled me too many times for me to trust her), or to come clean and admit to him that I've felt this way about him. I'm sure on some level he's aware, but I've never actually said anything.

My cousin's last victim (with whom I am also friends) thinks I should just forget about him and find someone else...but he's pretty embittered right now so I don't know.

Thanks.

averagejoe
2007-07-30, 11:49 AM
I guess I just feel like a bit of an idiot, because I should have KNOWN this was going to happen, and yet I still manage to keep finding new ways to think well maybe things'll change...and I'm not really old enough for it to matter, anyway. I just keep forgetting that all the rational thoughts in the world, all the logic, isn't going to help when I get my heart broken all over again.

Don't feel like an idiot. Smarter (or, at least, more experienced) people than you have made much worse mistakes when it comes to love. I'm afraid I don't have much else to give besides sympathy and rational thoughts, but I have both in abundance. The only way this will stop hurting is if you give it time, but you probably already knew that. I don't know what else to say besides I'm sorry. Such betrayals always cut deep.

Vampiric
2007-07-30, 12:19 PM
^ as above, Dragonrider. However, I do think that, if you feel able to, you should tell him how you feel. If he can't deal with you liking him, he isn't going to be a good friend, especially if you don't tell him and you just bottle it up - it will end up exploding, potentially hurting someone. If you tell him, don't try and put yourself between him and your cousin. If she is as fickle as you say, they won't last long as it is, but you don't want to be embittering either of them. Don't let him break up with your cousin for you - if he'll do it to her, who's to say he won't do it to you...?:smallfrown:

Either way, good luck, and we'll all be here after, for you to gloat at:smallwink: , or to commiserate with you. :smallsmile:

Dragonrider
2007-07-30, 01:32 PM
Yeah, my mom just gave me two pieces of advice:

(1) Come clean with him. We won't be able to stay friends unless we're honest with each other. I'm drafting an email right now.

(2) Try to move on. Keep up a friendship but don't waste my life wishing things were different.

My God, I just hit "send". No going back now. I hope that wasn't the biggest mistake I ever made...

This is really hard.

Pyrian
2007-07-30, 02:06 PM
My God, I just hit "send". No going back now. I hope that wasn't the biggest mistake I ever made...Good luck, Dragonrider! I don't think you made a mistake. I do think you should've taken this step earlier, though.

Also, I do think that you just contributed to some of the most common bits of relationship mythology. Consider the situation from the guy's perspective; a short time ago he probably thought nobody liked him. Now, at least two girls are suddenly competing for his attention. What conclusions is he likely to draw from this? (1) That he's more attractive when it looks like other women are pursuing him and (2) that jealousy is his friend.

People can act very badly if they take those lessons to heart.

Syka
2007-07-30, 02:16 PM
*hugs* I definitely know the feeling. It'll all be ok. It's not like you just ate an explosive that'll go off any second inside you...

...even though I'm sure it feels that way.

Cheers,
Syka

zeratul
2007-07-30, 02:32 PM
My God, I just hit "send". No going back now. I hope that wasn't the biggest mistake I ever made...

This is really hard.

Hey Rider know what? You rock. I know how hard that is to do, and hey it sort of worked out for me. It took me a long time after I had composed the message to send it. so now know what you do? Relax. Ball's in their court girl, listen to some music, and get your mind onto other things for a while.

Way to go *hugs*.

mudbunny
2007-07-30, 02:34 PM
Yeah, my mom just gave me two pieces of advice:

(1) Come clean with him. We won't be able to stay friends unless we're honest with each other. I'm drafting an email right now.

(2) Try to move on. Keep up a friendship but don't waste my life wishing things were different.

My God, I just hit "send". No going back now. I hope that wasn't the biggest mistake I ever made...

This is really hard.

Being in a serious relationship, be it romantic or be it simply friendship, involves dealing with shifting boundaries, making tough choices and being honest, both with yourself and with the other person (people) in the relationship.

Logic
2007-07-30, 02:58 PM
Yeah, my mom just gave me two pieces of advice:

(1) Come clean with him. We won't be able to stay friends unless we're honest with each other. I'm drafting an email right now.

(2) Try to move on. Keep up a friendship but don't waste my life wishing things were different.

My God, I just hit "send". No going back now. I hope that wasn't the biggest mistake I ever made...

This is really hard.
You just did the hardest part for most of us. Opening communications. Now that your feelings are known to him, he has to respond.

Dragonrider
2007-07-30, 03:07 PM
Thanks everyone. I'm waiting for a response now, and trying to remain detached from the outcome...whatever happens.

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-30, 03:08 PM
While I would have advised waiting until they weren't a couple before saying anything to him, it certainly won't be the worst mistake you've ever made. In my view, it won't even rank in the "Top ###" things. Forgetting to check the expiration date on your milk might even rank a little higher. There are some good points to either side of that discussion and in my head the "wait for a little bit" side only barely wins over the "you must say something right now" side. So don't sweat that part. If he's horribly offended (and if you're friends, he won't be), his relationship status has nothing to do with it so timing wouldn't have been the issue anyway.

Do be careful of him leaving her for you though. I have some things to say about that too, but let's wait and see what happens before I dive into them, if necessary even.

I'm going to avoid saying anything along the lines of "I hope you did/didn't say..." things because you've already sent the message and I don't want to add to the pressure you must already be feeling and anything I add would only be opinion.

I will say good luck to you and that no matter what happens, things will probably work out in the long run and in the meantime, we'll be here to congratulate or support you, whichever you end up needing.


_____________________________________________
The PM box, it is open to any of you.

Pepz
2007-07-30, 04:19 PM
Hey Advisors,

only just saw this thread (usually only to be find at the comics or smbg :) ) and wondered if you guys could give me a little gem of advice, or even a good wake up slap :)

Here's my situation:

I've been in love with a girl for 5 years now. I noticed her in the hallways of our school, and it was cupids and arrows flying around :) Now it's 5 years later, I haven't seen her in about 2 years, talk to her on msn about once a month, and those conversations usually start joking and laughing together, then she loses interest and the convo dies. But my crush won't die. Every time I think about her I still have butterflies, and think about what could have, should have been :)

Now till here it's been just a regular "kick me in the face, cuz I'm whining"-post, I know :)

But lately I've been thinking of maybe asking her for something of a closure-date. Just one date, to get me to realize that "no, we're not made for each other" and "this wouldn't work out".

What do you think? Is that a good idea? A horrible idea? A penguin?

Pepz

ps just delete this if you think this is the wrong thread.

zeratul
2007-07-30, 04:23 PM
Does she know? If not I advise you to tell her.

Pepz
2007-07-30, 04:25 PM
She knows I once had a crush on her. I doubt she knows I still have feelings for her.

SDF
2007-07-30, 04:27 PM
I wouldn't even tell her you like her. I would just ask her if she wanted to do something with you somewhere, lunch, whatever. And try to pick the friendship off from there, if the day goes well then ask her out on a date at the end of it. If not then I would try and move on.

Pyrian
2007-07-30, 05:07 PM
But lately I've been thinking of maybe asking her for something of a closure-date. Just one date, to get me to realize that "no, we're not made for each other" and "this wouldn't work out".

What do you think? Is that a good idea? A horrible idea? A penguin?A flaming penguin, no less. :smallwink:

Anyway, I think asking her out on a date is a great idea. However, I do not recommend saying anything to her about closure. In fact, I strongly recommend against it.

mudbunny
2007-07-30, 05:16 PM
But lately I've been thinking of maybe asking her for something of a closure-date. Just one date, to get me to realize that "no, we're not made for each other" and "this wouldn't work out".


Asking her for a date, good.

Asking her for a date because you want to end this chapter in your life is, IMO, a very bad idea. Ask her instead with the point of view that it doesn't matter what happens on the date.

Seriously.

What is the worst that could happen, she finds out she is really into you and wants to go on more dates with you?? Yeah, that would be rough. :P

Just ask her. No comments on whether she likes you or not, just ask her for a date.

Dragonrider
2007-07-30, 05:37 PM
Update:

Him leaving her for me wasn't really an issue. I don't want him to feel guilty. I also don't think I'd have had the guts to say anything if I'd waited...because I was in the "I-don't-even-care-what-happens-I-don't-want-to-care" stage. I've been cycling all day between that and caring so much it hurts.

But anyway, he wrote me back and said he guessed, sort of. And that he still wants to be friends with me. And that he doesn't want me to be mad at my cousin, if I'm angry with somebody, let it be him.

She REALLY doesn't deserve him.

But I guess that's the balance things have come to. I'd better start getting used to it.

zeratul
2007-07-30, 05:48 PM
I'm soory DR. But who knows. After they break up, he may start to realize how awesome you are, and then consider you as more than a friend.

Cyrano
2007-07-30, 05:53 PM
Hopefully, your cousin will live up to the reputation of evil. Then, you get both A, hot guy and B, shoulder crying.

Goddamnit, I'm not a good help.

Anyway, DR, that WAS a good thing to do and good work. Good luck, too, with your friendship. Nice job.

sktarq
2007-07-30, 06:09 PM
Update:
...
But I guess that's the balance things have come to. I'd better start getting used to it.

Perfect actually. Now you two can start being friend while he is dating your cousin. If she shapes up for a good guy great your family life improved. If she doesn't the relationship is not likely to last and you two will have a real base for either a strong friendship or a romantic relationship as will be seen when you get there. Also now you get to see how he treats his girlfriends and be sure you'd WANT to be in that situation.

Dragonrider
2007-07-30, 06:39 PM
Yeah....

Am in the midst of trying to convince myself that as of going to bed tonight, I will be DONE with dwelling on it.

This most recent episode with my cousin is going to be hard to deal with, because her mother facilitates her behaviour (whether intentionally or not) and this is not the first time I've been the victim of it. She is going to be bugging me ("don't be mad at me, I can't help it! I love you!") and I'm not taking any crap from her.

Hmm. Tonight might be a little soon. I want to let him go without erasing him from my life, staying friends, and it's gonna be hard to disentangle my feelings from my friendship.

*hugs* to everyone for their advice and support. Thanks guys.

Syka
2007-07-30, 06:55 PM
My advice about the cousin is if she brings it up, curtly tell her, "Drop it, or I'm walking away." She doesn't need to be apologizing and if she knew you liked him he should have been off limits, so she knew what she was doing and really isn't sorry. And, honestly, if she keeps bringing him up, walk away.

I told the guy I had been dating the other night when we started to argue again that if he wanted to stay friends he needed to drop it. He did. :) So I know how you feel. Telling my ex I didn't want to talk to him was one of the hardest things I've had to do, and breaking up with this other guy is up there. Trust me, you'll be dwelling on it for a while. But it'll slowly start to fade if you keep talking to yourself and trying to keep yourself in the mode of a platonic friendship. I doubt the feelings ever go away completely, but I think they get to a manageable level.

Speaking of...said guy want's to come visit this weekend. :smalleek: If he does, I won't be able to hang out with him much and I fully expect him to aid in the moving of my mini-fridge. Don't get my wrong, I'd hang out with him some, but I'm packing up to move this week and this weekend is going to be a big part of that (my mom is even coming up). Yes, he'll get full warning of this.

Beside letting me know he really wants to hang out again, he had sent me a text on Saturday saying he missed me. :smallannoyed: It's kind of weirding me out. Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a lot of me that would want to go back with him (with the provisions that A. we're exclusive and B. if in an argument about a problem that I am not the cause of he tries turning it on me, or tries dodging a question, it's over). But part of me is suspicious that he just wants to go back to what we'd had before.

I'm kinda in a :smallannoyed: mood, also, because this past weekend literally would have been perfect for him to come up (which he'd been planning to) but, I'm assuming due to the rollarcoaster ride we've been on, that that is why he didn't. *grumble* Sometimes, timing is completely bad.

Cheers,
Syka

The Great Skenardo
2007-07-30, 07:02 PM
I need some suggestions. My long-distance lady-friend is coming to visit for a week in mid-August, and I'm trying to think of a list of things that I could offer up to do.

A: The beach. Living by a Great Lake has its advantages :smallbiggrin:
B: The Theatre. I happen to know one of Shakespeare's comedies is playing onstage at a local university (professional troupe)
C: Fancy dinner. Dress up and step out.
D: Cultural Exchange night: She brings some of this..."anime" stuff, and I show her a few episodes of Firefly or Stargate.
E: Shopping. She'd enjoy it, and It would mean that I get to see her trying out a variety of pretty clothes...

Any further suggestions from the playground?

Rex Idiotarum
2007-07-30, 07:14 PM
Pay attention to what she says. I know a lot of what I did this week was just off the subtle hints that she gave me. From Boston Cream Donuts ((We were going to Boston, so even if it wasn't her favorite, I could still hint at what we'd be doing.))

I can't tell you what I'd do, since I haven't talked to your lady friend.

FdL
2007-07-30, 07:15 PM
Beside letting me know he really wants to hang out again, he had sent me a text on Saturday saying he missed me. :smallannoyed: It's kind of weirding me out. Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a lot of me that would want to go back with him (with the provisions that A. we're exclusive and B. if in an argument about a problem that I am not the cause of he tries turning it on me, or tries dodging a question, it's over). But part of me is suspicious that he just wants to go back to what we'd had before.


Oh, crap...It's the classic emotional terrorism through cellphone messages :( You soooo don't deserve that crap.

That stuff is awful, it can drive you crazy, and it affects you, as you said. It shakes your confidence and fills you with doubts, because it hits where you're weaker. I think it's awful that he does that to you, he should know better. :(

Of course, when you end up a relationship you miss it, because something that made you feel good at some point is not there anymore. But once it's been talked and it's not viable anymore, when you both know it's over, doing that only confuses the other person and doesn't lead to anything.

This kind of things is precisely why I say it's better to cut any sort of communication when you break up with someone. Of course someone misses you when he no longer has you. But things can't magically go back to "ideal state".

As a past victim of this kind of strategies, I heartily recommend you to do anything to avoid it. It only leads to more confusion and suffering.

SDF
2007-07-30, 07:23 PM
This kind of things is precisely why I say it's better to cut any sort of communication when you break up with someone. Of course someone misses you when he no longer has you. But things can't magically go back to "ideal state".

I don't think any relationship is ideal, and if you had a relationship based on friendship there is a reason to fight for it. Other times if you are in a relationship where you all hang out with the same people cutting off communication isn't feasable. It all depends on circumstance.

Syka
2007-07-30, 07:45 PM
Oh, I never actually answered the message. When he got online he asked if I got it, I said yes, and he said it made him feel weird that I didn't answer. I told him it made me feel weird for him to say it at this point in time, given the situation. :smallsmile: A minor tiff ensued over...something completely pointless I'm sure. Heh.

And that's the thing 90% of the time with him is really good. Most of that 10%, while not really good, wasn't a sort of bad that I couldn't handle, just minor annoyances. That small fraction of the 10% was the dodging and turning stuff on me which was a new occurance. Post break up, it's still been about 80% good during our conversations and all. I think it's worth fighting for as long as we get these boundaries worked out. As I told my best friend, I think this is the post-break up jostling to figure out the boundaries.

And no, I'm not totally adverse to going back with him given those provisions. Namely, because so much of our relationship (ie- friendship) is still good. But he'd also have to be the one to broach the subject, and the relationship wouldn't automatically pick up where it left off. He needs to regain some trust (I've knocked him down to Friend Trust, which is below Significant Other Trust, which is different) before we'd do anything beyond kissing.

In other news, I have my movie back. :)

Cheers,
Syka

zeratul
2007-07-30, 07:48 PM
This kind of things is precisely why I say it's better to cut any sort of communication when you break up with someone. Of course someone misses you when he no longer has you. But things can't magically go back to "ideal state".

That's actually exactly what happened with me last year hehe. Though weweren't actually dating. We were just in like with one another. I think it really depends on the people. If they are both kind resonablep eople I believe it can work out. If one is going to hold a grudge though it isn't worth it.

FdL
2007-07-30, 08:04 PM
I don't think any relationship is ideal, and if you had a relationship based on friendship there is a reason to fight for it. Other times if you are in a relationship where you all hang out with the same people cutting off communication isn't feasable. It all depends on circumstance.

Well, of course, and it's different for everybody and every relation. And I can only speak from what I know and think.
But my opinion is that this is precisely the kind of situation that forces you to do what I say. Because if you still hang out with that person, and one of you clings to the idea that you should be back together, people are going to get hurt.

In any case, it could well be that he misses her and he wants her back. But saying it to her, knowing that she's confused and getting herself back together, does it do any good? In the best possible scenario, would it work to get back together? Does it really change how things are? If not, it's time to be mature and stop doing that kind of things for the sake of yourself first, and then the other person and whatever relation you want to/can have with her/him (if any).

Personally I had sooo much of this "I miss you" crap from an ex after a breakup. Then it was usually followed by my reaction and when I acted on it, believing it was a sign of her really wanting to be with me she backed off :S So then if she misses me but she's not willing to do anything to get back together, what's the game here? A game of insecurities and confusion, that only hurts people.

Gladly now I know better. But it comes at a price.

I might explain more of this failed relationship of mine some day. But it was so convoluted and twisted, and it's still kinda painful for me to remember. I still get kind of depressed when I think about it, even if I consider it as finished. :( :( :(

Syka
2007-07-30, 08:17 PM
*hugs FdL* I don't think any serious relationship where you end up really close/loving the person will ever leave you. I hope it goes better.

I don't know if he's playing games. If he does honestly get back together, it's either exclusive or not at all. But, until he says something (or, ya know, tries making a move on me), I'm not going to bring it up. I want to, oh do I want to, but I'll let him handle it.

Oh well, overthinking again. I'll handle it as it comes and keep y'all updated.

Cheers,
Syka

Pyrian
2007-07-30, 09:15 PM
But part of me is suspicious that he just wants to go back to what we'd had before.If he fools you again, shame on you. :smallwink:


I want to, oh do I want to, but I'll let him handle it.Personally, I think you should be looking for another fish in the sea. :smallbiggrin:


In any case, it could well be that he misses her and he wants her back. But saying it to her, knowing that she's confused and getting herself back together, does it do any good?That's exactly the sort of thing I never allowed myself to indulge in - which is why I have some good friendships with ex's. I think FdL's experience is limited and has led him to a premature one-size-fits-all attitude, but in this sort of case I more-or-less agree with him. If the other side of the "friendship" is not taking things maturely, you should first tell them to stop it. If they don't, you should stop it yourself by cutting them off.

It takes two to tango...

FdL
2007-07-30, 09:20 PM
That's exactly the sort of thing I never allowed myself to indulge in - which is why I have some good friendships with ex's. I think FdL's experience is limited and has led him to a premature one-size-fits-all attitude, but in this sort of case I more-or-less agree with him.


I admit that this is the case, I've had limited and horrible experiences. I'm sorry if what I say often sounds harsh but it's part of a defensive attitude I've developed to be able to survive pain and rejection :( I wish it could be different but it can't be. Not with how she is and how I am.



If the other side of the "friendship" is not taking things maturely, you should first tell them to stop it. If they don't, you should stop it yourself by cutting them off.


That's the point I want to make.

Syka
2007-07-30, 10:16 PM
Yah, I get that.

It's also why I told him flat out the other night that if he wanted to stay friends, he needed to stop it. My other ex didn't stop it, and we aren't friends. I'm hoping he is able to act as mature as I thought he was.


And was that a veiled come-on? :smalltongue: No fair hitting on a girl on the rebound. ;)

Cheers,
Syka

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-31, 12:40 AM
Oy! I missed so much today. And no multiquote. :smallfrown:

@TGS - are you going to be working during this week or are you taking time off? If you're going to be available during the day, a trip to an amusement park during the week might be something to look into.

@Dragonrider - It sounds to me like you've got this under control at this point. If you both are aware of your feelings and are both aware of what's NOT going to happen, at least in the near term, then I think that would make it easier to be friendly around him. I've been in this situation in the past and it helped to have the relationship clearly defined. You don't have to feel weird about anything because everything is on the table. You both also know what the limits are. I'd imagine that both of you will go out of your way not to behave inappropriately with each other (no lingering hugs, no longing sidelong glances, etc). If it does happen that they break up, you can broach the subject again. In the meantime, keep looking. Don't wait for him. Show him you can get along with him platonically and have your own romantic life with someone else. It'll make everything easier for everyone. As for your cousin, just like Syka said, be pleasant but don't let her bring it up.

@Syka - It's hard to be clear on the right advice for me to give you here. I really think you shouldn't leave yourself open to the option of rekindling the relationship. It's true that we don't have the details but the meat of it is that he betrayed your trust. That's something that will be hard to overcome. In the back of your mind this will linger. Him turning it around on you is the worst way to handle a breach of trust too. I might feel differently if you told us he'd immediately owned up and begged forgiveness but he didn't. I'm all for being friends if you can but I agree with Pyrian that you should cast your net and see what else you can catch. (And his post did look like an invitation, didn't it? :smalltongue: )

_________________
My PM box is open. Confidentiality and compassion guaranteed.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-31, 12:48 AM
(with the provisions that A. we're exclusive and B. if in an argument about a problem that I am not the cause of he tries turning it on me, or tries dodging a question, it's over).

Ah yes, the Beta clause of every relationship with a female, ever. Young'uns, take note. You are always wrong, she is always right, especially when she's wrong. Always.

Hell Puppi
2007-07-31, 12:52 AM
Now Tor...be nice....


I'm wrong. A lot. I fully and whole-heartedly admit that now.

Pepz
2007-07-31, 01:25 AM
I could never agree to that Beta clause :) If someone always needs to be the winner of an argument, I doubt that you're going to have a fun relationship :) (Can just picture a couple keeping score on the fridge who won what :smallcool: ). Think arguments should be finished in a mutual consensus if possible, not someone "winning" :)

but then again :) my experience with arguments is limited :)

horseboy
2007-07-31, 01:50 AM
I could never agree to that Beta clause :) If someone always needs to be the winner of an argument, I doubt that you're going to have a fun relationship :) (Can just picture a couple keeping score on the fridge who won what :smallcool: ). Think arguments should be finished in a mutual consensus if possible, not someone "winning" :)

but then again :) my experience with arguments is limited :)

Ah yes, the beta clause. The cornerstone of sit com "hilarity." Beta girls are pretty easy to spot, as they're also usually the ones that will pick fights with you to prove that you love them.

Zeb The Troll
2007-07-31, 01:55 AM
It looks like there might be some misinterpretation of what Syka said in clause B. She didn't say, or even imply, that she always has to win an argument. What she said was (paraphrased) "If we're arguing about something you did wrong and you try to blame your erring on me1, or if you try to dodge a question about what you did wrong2..."

1He's been busted kissing another girl, guilt is established.
Her: I can't believe you would do that!
Him: It's your fault, you know! If you hadn't....

2She has reason to suspect he's done something wrong and is asking about it.
Her: Did you go to the club with Wanda last night?
Him: Well, yeah, but there were other people there too.
Her: Did you kiss her while you were there?
Him: What in the world can that be?! *points off in the distance* Erm, anyway, Dave had a lot to drink and so we had to drive him home.

Syka
2007-07-31, 07:50 AM
Ok, yah. My post was totally misinterpreted there.

I know I'm not perfect. When we were having discussions about stuff HE SPECIFICALLY did wrong he'd try saying, "Well, you aren't perfect either." etc. I told him I know, but I can't really be expected to do anything about it if you don't say anything (which he hadn't). That argument was literally the first time I'd heard that he'd been angry with me at all. I don't mind him saying if something I do irritates him, I WANT him to. I DON'T want him to bring it up when we're going over something HE did because that is just trying to get the blame off him. "Well, you did X so is Y really that bad?" :smallannoyed:

I take offense to the assumption that I meant I was always right.

I also do not expect to always be the winner, nor do I expect there to be a winner. For me, I expect arguments to be discussions, admittedly heated ones, about something that needs a resolution. As such, I expect it to end in such away that some end has been reached.

And dodging questions is wrong all around. It's fine to ask who you found out from, etc, AFTER the question has been addressed. Note the sequence of expected events.

Sorry if I come off as a bit of a jerk, but I don't think that is really too much to ask.

Cheers,
Syka

Lissou
2007-07-31, 08:08 AM
Yeah, avoiding answering and shifting the blame are two common strategies. In my experience, men can be real cowards, use the former, then when they're found out they use the latter to pretend they're the victime.
Not saying women don't do it, but as I've never dated one, I wouldn't really know.

You know you're in a healthy relationship when you don't see arguments as "who's going to win?" or "who's going to be right?" but as "as can we solve our problem together?". In the end, the winner is the relationship.

When you DID do something wrong, however, you should admit it. I do think I know more men than women who pretend they were right even after it's been proven they're not (although I know of women who do it too). I'm not sure if you're trying to be manly or what, but that's the attitude of a jerk. Owning up to one's mistakes take more guts than saying you didn't do it/ didn't do it on purpose/ didn't mean to do it or whatever.

Also, if you cheat on someone, don't go blaming them for it. That's just common sense. The relationship might have gone wrong, because of both of you, but the cheating is your fault. You should have discussed it before it came down to it, or you should own up now and admit you've messed up. Then, and only then, you'll be able to start talking about how it came down to it.

Also, I like when my fiancÚ is right and I'm wrong. It makes me admire him more for being even more clever than I am :p

mudbunny
2007-07-31, 08:27 AM
re: Beta option

I call this subthread dead, and now return you to your regularly scheduled advice thread.

Dragonrider
2007-07-31, 08:57 AM
My last post in my saga, since I'm going to be officially DONE WITH THINKING ABOUT IT as of today:

So I talked to him on the phone for over an hour last night (about the whole deal), and I think that for him anyway, now that I've told him it's going to be easier to be friends - he's known how I felt for a while and it kind of did strain our friendship, now that the cards are on the table and we can TALK about it, it's not as big a deal. And as he isn't making it awkward, I'm going to just try to let my feelings go.

Which is the hard part, for me...but I also understand that I can't just keep bouncing back and hoping that THIS TIME it'll turn out for the best. That's why I'm not going to let myself dwell on it anymore....It'll take a while to figure out how to be friends with him without feeling that way...I don't want to erase him from my life but I want to be able to look at his picture without regret.

(Ok I'm setting my goals pretty high for this early, but I need to do SOMETHING...)

And oh yeah....my dad wrote a song about the whole thing last night. My mom knew what was going on so of course she told him. I've never even discussed it with him before. I thought I was done with crying till he played the song for me...there's nothing like parental sympathy...It's hard to know you're doing all the right things and it's just not enough.

Okay. My last, long self-pity list. Thank you for listening, it really has made it a lot easier, especially the advice. I've got it under control logistically, now it's just dealing with myself, and that'll come.

Thanks.

Pyrian
2007-07-31, 11:32 AM
And was that a veiled come-on? :smalltongue:Well, I did see your picture before you took it down. :smallcool:


No fair hitting on a girl on the rebound. ;)Pfff. That's totally fair game in my book. IIRC, though, you're a fair bit younger than my usual dating range. :smalleek:


I'm all for being friends if you can but I agree with Pyrian that you should cast your net and see what else you can catch. (And his post did look like an invitation, didn't it? :smalltongue: )I add one little smily to the end of an otherwise perfectly innocent sentence and everybody sees it as a come on. :smallyuk:

Vonriel
2007-07-31, 11:51 AM
I gotta say, that last post of yours didn't help your case much, Pyrian.

Dragonrider, since it doesn't seem like too many other people have said it, I'll take the honors (heh, yeah, right..) Be prepared to not be able to get rid of the way you feel about him. Or at least for it to take a long while. It's one thing to say you'll do it, but another entirely to actually carry through. I'm sorry for the whole situation, though, and I would agree with actually getting angry at your cousin even if she does the tears and "I'm sorry" bit. She can help it, and while she may love you, she certainly has a horrible way of showing it.

Skenardo, I think Zeb has a good idea with the amusement park trip. Also, maybe a day in just watching movies. Especially a good idea if it decides to be really rainy one day and you don't want to risk getting her wet. :smallbiggrin:

mudbunny
2007-07-31, 12:01 PM
Which is the hard part, for me...but I also understand that I can't just keep bouncing back and hoping that THIS TIME it'll turn out for the best. That's why I'm not going to let myself dwell on it anymore....It'll take a while to figure out how to be friends with him without feeling that way...I don't want to erase him from my life but I want to be able to look at his picture without regret.

It will take a while, but it will happen.

A couple of years ago (6 to be precise), when I was finishing up my PhD (Chemistry), my girlfriend went to Italy for a year. I dropped some big $$$ to go to see her for christmas/new years. My first christmas/NY ever not with my mother.

Anyways, about 1 month after I get back, I get an international Dear Marcel call. It took me about 2 years to get over the feeling of my heart being broken when I would think about her, look at something that she had given me or something like that.


(Ok I'm setting my goals pretty high for this early, but I need to do SOMETHING...)

If you never aim for the stars, I can guarantee that you will never hit the moon.

Syka
2007-07-31, 05:25 PM
Yah, it takes a while. But it'll eventually get to a non-painful state. Times are different for everyone, but it does happen. *hugs* It'll be ok, even though I know it seems like it won't.

Cheers,
Syka

magicwalker
2007-07-31, 05:27 PM
@Dragonrider

The slow times are when the thinking becomes most problematic. Keeping busy will make it easier for you, and maybe in the process you'll run into someone new.

Nightgaunt
2007-07-31, 06:22 PM
I need some suggestions. My long-distance lady-friend is coming to visit for a week in mid-August, and I'm trying to think of a list of things that I could offer up to do.

*SNIP*

Any further suggestions from the playground?

I like most of your ideas, and I can't say as I know how much you've posted here about your relationship so I'll give you some general thoughts.

This is a Long Distance LTR, so generally I'd stay away from "at-home" dates. Most of your relationship needs to revolve around being at-home because of distance, take the opportunity of being together to spend some time out and about. Depending on age and your current desire of one another that may or may not happen. Many LTR's of this type devolve in to monkey madness when they finally interact, so you may get to do nothing outside of the home.:smallbiggrin:

That being said. Take her someplace you know well, if you don't go out to fancy dinner's too often I wouldn't suggest it. A fancy dinner is good, but it's much better if you happen to know a few things about wine and the type of food served. If neither of you know anything about fine dining and you want to make an adventure out of it, it can work. But that seems like something more likely for a long term relationship where you can spend a lot of time together, which I'm guessing is not what you have here.

If she is coming to see you, let her experience your world and try to include her in it. If there are things you like to do, if you enjoy the local theater and are familiar with the troupe's, if you enjoy the beach or sailing or similar, those are great ideas. Nothing is more enjoyable then bringing someone who is visiting in to your world, it can create a really close bond and it is less likely to have "unhappy" circumstances.

Shopping: Shopping is one of my favorite dates of all time. Nothing is better, for me, then to take a girl out shopping. I'll even allow them to help me pick out some clothes. Even with the almost unhealthy amount of time I spend looking at fashions, most women can still pick out a few pieces that are better then I would see. So let her play dress up for you, and while your at it, let her fashion sense come out and dress you up. It'll be fun for both of you, and if you have no fashion sense (most guys don't really) you'll probably end up with a few good outfits out of it...

Well that's my professional opinion at any rate. Good Luck!


__DragonRider___
Sorry to hear about all your troubles. I offer my sympathy to you. I wish I could have such easy council for those kinds of problems, but I guess only time can help that sort of problem.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-07-31, 09:15 PM
If anybody remembers my situation or is active enough to search it up, a news update : I┤m going to another school(after summer holidays ofcourse) and I miss her even if we didnt do much things toghetter,I also think I just miss for a lack of better wording enviroment(how do you spell that?) of my old class.

So the only contact I will have with her will be over msn......

jazz1m
2007-08-01, 10:00 AM
Ah yes dallas-dakota, I remember your plight. Moving in general sucks. Making new friends and getting used to the teachers can be a pain, but you just gotta get out there and meet people. As for your lady friend, if you do enjoy her company and want to see if you can make a long distance relationship work go for it. (Actually are you dating her?) If you're not dating her, maybe you should branch out, I'm not saying that you need to forget her, but don't use her as an excuse to not find other people. It'll be difficult to get used to the new school, and it does suck to be the new kid, but it won't be too long until you get used to the new environment. I've changed schools at least 4 times in my life from elementary to high school, so I can relate to what your going through.

Logic
2007-08-02, 11:20 PM
A whole day without any woes? We must have cured them all!

*High-fives Syka, Zeb, and other common advice givers.*

Syka
2007-08-02, 11:22 PM
Eh, I've had woes. Just don't feel like being in a sharing mood. Plus I'm coping and I don't want to sound like I'm constantly complaining. :smallwink:

But yay for solving problems!

Cheers,
Syka

Tor the Fallen
2007-08-02, 11:52 PM
My last post in my saga, since I'm going to be officially DONE WITH THINKING ABOUT IT as of today:

So I talked to him on the phone for over an hour last night (about the whole deal), and I think that for him anyway, now that I've told him it's going to be easier to be friends - he's known how I felt for a while and it kind of did strain our friendship, now that the cards are on the table and we can TALK about it, it's not as big a deal. And as he isn't making it awkward, I'm going to just try to let my feelings go.

Which is the hard part, for me...but I also understand that I can't just keep bouncing back and hoping that THIS TIME it'll turn out for the best. That's why I'm not going to let myself dwell on it anymore....It'll take a while to figure out how to be friends with him without feeling that way...I don't want to erase him from my life but I want to be able to look at his picture without regret.

(Ok I'm setting my goals pretty high for this early, but I need to do SOMETHING...)

And oh yeah....my dad wrote a song about the whole thing last night. My mom knew what was going on so of course she told him. I've never even discussed it with him before. I thought I was done with crying till he played the song for me...there's nothing like parental sympathy...It's hard to know you're doing all the right things and it's just not enough.

Okay. My last, long self-pity list. Thank you for listening, it really has made it a lot easier, especially the advice. I've got it under control logistically, now it's just dealing with myself, and that'll come.

Thanks.

You could always try getting him good and drunk. Guys are easy when they're sloshed.
At least, I am.

horseboy
2007-08-03, 12:46 AM
You could always try getting him good and drunk. Guys are easy when they're sloshed.
At least, I am.

Guys are NOT easy at some time????? :confused:

Serpentine
2007-08-03, 12:50 AM
...
Oh man, I wanna take the bait, but it'll be scrubbed, I know it.

Hell Puppi
2007-08-03, 12:53 AM
I was going to say as long as you have epic boobage for most guys, and the ability to hold a conversation for the rest...and you can pretty much get most of 'em.
Then of course there's the taken ones that are loyal. THOSE are the challenge.


Note: I both mean the above statement and at the same time laugh at it's absurdity.

Tor the Fallen
2007-08-03, 01:08 AM
I was going to say as long as you have epic boobage for most guys, and the ability to hold a conversation for the rest...and you can pretty much get most of 'em.
Then of course there's the taken ones that are loyal. THOSE are the challenge.


Note: I both mean the above statement and at the same time laugh at it's absurdity.

Well, as long as the waist as narrow, and the boobage more precariously perched rather than comfortably slouched or worse, nestled, then a conversation really isn't necessary.

Hell Puppi
2007-08-03, 01:15 AM
^ as I was saying, for some its epic boobs, for the rest the hook is the ability to hold a conversation.

Midnight Son
2007-08-03, 01:29 AM
^ as I was saying, for some its epic boobs, for the rest the hook is the ability to hold a conversation.I'm not sure I'd be interested in boobs that could hold their own in a fight with a god. Let's just stick with high level shall we?:smallbiggrin:

Tor the Fallen
2007-08-03, 01:31 AM
I'm not sure I'd be interested in boobs that could hold their own in a fight with a god. Let's just stick with high level shall we?:smallbiggrin:

Hmmm, I wonder if there is a tit deity out there.... Heh, imagine having lactation in your portfolio. At least there wouldn't be too many adventurers vying for it.

Hell Puppi
2007-08-03, 01:36 AM
Somehow I imagine a kahli-like deity, but with a ginormous rack, shirtless. The boob goddess. If you anger her she curses you with sagginess.

I fear I have started something...but the thought of a dnd game with the Boob Goddess is something too funny to not think of

Rex Idiotarum
2007-08-03, 01:40 AM
Nonsense, that's what the Book of Erotic Fantasy was made for.((Actual Book, Good read, fair pictures))

Hell Puppi
2007-08-03, 01:41 AM
I don't think there was a boob goddess, though....

Heh blessings include a bigger rack, or a bigger rack on your S.O.


Edit: I feel like I'm in High school again. I'm giggling about boobs.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-08-03, 01:43 AM
Create Holy Milk?

Tor the Fallen
2007-08-03, 01:44 AM
Somehow I imagine a kahli-like deity, but with a ginormous rack, shirtless. The boob goddess. If you anger her she curses you with sagginess.

I fear I have started something...but the thought of a dnd game with the Boob Goddess is something too funny to not think of

One thing that I've never really cared for in D&D, and most fantasy, is how virtually every character is pulled from a model decorating Maxim or GQ. I mean, when was the last time you saw a bitch like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coatlicue) in fantasy?

Or for that matter, an overweight, balding, middle aged man with a slight slouch who also happened to be a brutal assassin/criminal lord? Just about every picture ever published has more sixpacks than a fratparty.

Hell Puppi
2007-08-03, 01:49 AM
Indeed...well it's a problem with a lot of things nowadays, I suppose. In the actual books it doesn't give you much leeway, but I guess that's where you have to be creative and not get too bogged down in the 'everyone is a freaking supermodel' while actually playing.
I mean seriously, most chick armor? It's like a metal bra.
The only ugly people are orcs. Sort of. I'm sure someone has played a pretty orc.
Er wow that's a whole 'nother tangent. Someone get us back on track?

Rex Idiotarum
2007-08-03, 02:39 AM
Relationships... Over the past two weeks, I remembered why I loved her so much, and still do. Fun times, almost too fun. It's a drag when her parents won't even let you say goodbye one last time, then you have to go behind their backs to do it. O! Well, it was fun while it lasted...

Serpentine
2007-08-03, 03:27 AM
Why didn't they want you to say goodbuy? Seems odd.

Syka
2007-08-06, 12:42 PM
Wow, I'm impressed.

Have all relationship woes been solved or is everything going underground? :smallsmile: Either way, I hope everyone is doing well!

Cheers,
Syka

Jibar
2007-08-06, 12:45 PM
Oh, all these problems haven't been solved yet. There's just a momentary lull while summer makes you all feisty, frisky and happy.

@V Hey, no need for those eyebrows. I don't wanna encorouge them. I've just had my mating season, it's you human's turn to have your disgusting mating habits.

Vampiric
2007-08-06, 01:11 PM
@^:smallwink: for a sentence like that, you should've used an emoticon that my bro likes to use on msn - the 'suggestive' eyebrows - going up and down, except these look like giant caterpillars...:smallamused:

FdL
2007-08-06, 02:02 PM
Wow, I'm impressed.

Have all relationship woes been solved or is everything going underground? :smallsmile: Either way, I hope everyone is doing well!


Nah, it's all underground. :p

Actually, I've been wanting to ask a girl out...She's really cool. But I think I haven't managed the situation very well so far (an understatement). You know, she has a friend, on whose party I met her (let's call her MR). Then I asked about her to her friend, who had invited me to the party because I know her from university since day one...
Well, I think i screwed it up because the friend knows I like MR, and MR does too, but somehow I ended up telling MR I wanted to ask the other girl out :S
It got a little tangled up, but the thing is MR is the one I like and I'd want to go out with... :S

I should do it straight away, but I'm too blunt with these things and I don't know if the situation is beyond repair (although MR kinda knows I like her and she's told me recently she's looking for someone).

*sigh* I'm definitely no good at this. Why do I complicate things so much? I should call it quits :p Anyway, don't pay much attention to my confused mind streaming through the keyboard.

magicwalker
2007-08-06, 02:23 PM
@FdL: Sounds like you are making things difficult for yourself. You want to be with girl. Girl wants to be with you. Be together.

Of course, that might be an oversimplification.. but the advice remains. You want something, go get it.

Your timing seems to be pretty good, too.

Syka
2007-08-06, 03:43 PM
Yah, I'd just ask MR out. Coffee, some such. That way you can maybe segue it into a "date" or some such.

If she already knows she likes you, than you probably have a good chance. Even with the confusion.

Cheers,
Syka

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-06, 04:17 PM
Yeah, I'd agree with that sentiment. It seems that if someone who knows you are interested in her mentions that she's looking for someone, that would be a pretty clear opportunity to offer to be that someone. Or at least explore the possibility. Good luck!

Dragonrider
2007-08-06, 05:26 PM
Yeah...

and COMMUNICATE. It's ALL about communication. :smallsmile:

Yiel
2007-08-06, 05:42 PM
Yeah...

and COMMUNICATE. It's ALL about communication. :smallsmile:

Someone please drill this information into my partner's brain.

Hoggy
2007-08-06, 05:45 PM
I'd happily do that for you right now.

Oh wait, not literally... Dayum.

/rethink

Dragonrider
2007-08-06, 05:46 PM
Someone please drill this information into my partner's brain.

For a lot of people (myself included) it's definitely not as easy as it sounds (and I'm not saying it sounds easy). I don't think I volunteered one scrap of information about my emotions to anyone until...last month? that was when my mom and I really started getting close and I actually felt I could tell her things about myself. And this is my own mother, who gave birth to me sixteen years ago and probably knows me better than anyone else.

No, relationships are not easy for me. But I really do work. And I guess that's the important thing.

Sir_Norbert
2007-08-06, 05:51 PM
No, relationships are not easy for me. But I really do work. And I guess that's the important thing.
It should be, if you have a partner who's patient enough to recognise that you're working :)

Thrawn183
2007-08-06, 07:52 PM
Yeah, it really is the thought that counts.

I'm currently in the, "What part of, 'Can I take you out to dinner Friday evening?' does not come across as a date!?" I really don't want to have to break out the "And this is a date" brick over the phone because it isn't very suave or chic, but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. [/minirant]

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-06, 07:58 PM
Yeah, it really is the thought that counts.

I'm currently in the, "What part of, 'Can I take you out to dinner Friday evening?' does not come across as a date!?" I really don't want to have to break out the "And this is a date" brick over the phone because it isn't very suave or chic, but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. [/minirant]Someone misinterpreted that?

Cyrano
2007-08-06, 07:59 PM
Obviously someone very desperately looking for a free dinner.
Ain't happenin', people.

FdL
2007-08-06, 08:20 PM
Well, the original quote from MR was when she was showing me some photos of a party, when I asked if that was the guy she was dating she replied (translated ):

"He's not my boyfriend. And I don't think he'll (ever) be. So I'll have to look for another one, hehehe"

This was nice to hear...But well, I had semi-told her that I'd like to go for a cup of cofee with her and she had replied back then that she was seeing someone. Which could again be one of those polite excuses girls give to me.

*logs to MSN to se if she's on*

And well, she probably knows I like her because the other girl, which is her best friend must have told her (I wasn't really subtle, she showed me some photos of the two and I asked her to send them to me and she did, cyber-giggling). But as to my actual conversations with MR, I don't know if she just takes compliments politely or if she's really flattered when I tell them. I guess I'll try to be a little more direct.

So really, magicwalker, don't know if she wants to be with me. I'm not totally sure if I can be with someone right now, but it would be good I think. It just feels natural to talk to her and everything...She always tells me she finds our conversations interesting, though I'm the one who talks most. And she says I'm "funny" :)

Thrawn183, I laughed at your comment, because it's like that. Sometimes I feel the need to make it explicit that it's a date, because if not sometimes girls think we're going out as friends :(. It has happened recently, and then it's difficult to deal with. So I try to humorously include the expression "you and me" into the invitation. It cracks them up, I tell you :smallbiggrin: :smallfrown:

Syka, hey there, new avvie! ^^ Thanks for the advice, thanks to all.

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-06, 08:25 PM
FdL, this sounds like it might have been a timing issue. As with so many others, it sounds like the worst case scenario is that you go out and have a good time and you end up being friends. Never a bad thing.

Syka
2007-08-06, 08:29 PM
Just wait for the signature change. ;) This mind screw brought to you by Mistaken Identity Week.

As for making it explicitly a date, I feel ya. Guy-I-Broke-Up-With asked me to dinner for this Saturday. I told him I'd get back to him. Then, yesterday, I asked if it was as a date type thing or just friends (cause I'm willing to date, but we need to get some things cleared up, or if it's as friends I really can't afford the place he wants to go to). His response was, I don't know. :smallconfused: I then realized today, as with other occasions where he has asked me a head of time to go to dinner, it might be with his parents, which I'm totally cool with as I love them to death. So, I'm going to tell him if the invite is still open, I should be able to go, but I'm going to talk with him afterwards. Get it hammered out.

My mom said didn't I feel like maybe I wasn't taking pride in myself and I explained it like this: The way I see it, he's trying and thinking he can maintain the fuzzy casual dating situation with me. So I'm going to be making it clear that it either needs to be exclusive or just friends, no in between.

:)


So thrawn, I feel ya buddy. But sometimes we are just in a place where we want to convince ourselves it's not a date. Literally, the first....month and a half that I was with this guy, I kept telling people we weren't dating. >>' For a month of that we were hanging out every night.

Cheers,
Syka

FdL
2007-08-06, 08:33 PM
She's online, chatting with her right now. I'm going to fire the cannons (meaning, I'm probably shyly going to ask her out for some coffee, I don't want to scare her like I usually do with girls). Stay tuned.

Edit: This is crush-cam, the new reality show. Will our intrepid contestant succeed or have his hopes crushed in front of the worldwide audience? The thrills! :p

Thrawn183
2007-08-06, 08:51 PM
She somehow didn't realize that it was meant as a date. I just don't know how much more blunt you can be without hitting somebody upside the head with the phone.

Fortunately, the planning was a little rocky, so nothing's happened yet: which means we avoided the situation of me informing her I thought it was a date after we were already there... that can just be ugly.

Since I have finals this week and then fly out to Alaska till the start of next semester I'll probably just put off dealing with it till then, because there's nothing I can realistically do in the meantime.

FdL
2007-08-06, 09:36 PM
Crush-cam update:

Bombed :(

The conversation was going well (I need to create a friendly atmosphere before making the move), but before I could do my thing she mentions she's seeing someone. The guy she talked about, apparently it's still on. She even showed me a pic :S

Then I still told her I was planning on asking her out. She took it well, meh... :S Crap...This always happens to me...I hate it when they "my boyfriend" me out of the blue.

I need a random hug. Just a little hug and I'll be back to my usual manageable level of depression :p

But I'm not giving up yet...I'll retire slightly to plan a new strategy and wait in the shadows. Something went wrong here, and it will be improved next time.

Hell Puppi
2007-08-06, 09:39 PM
Awwww *hugs*

Next time, maybe.:smallsmile:

FdL
2007-08-06, 09:42 PM
Awwww *hugs*

Next time, maybe.:smallsmile:

Aww, thanks, Puppi. That was a nice sweet hug ^^

And yeah, next time it will be better. I believe in evolution and improvement through mistakes! :) (Only according to that I should be much better by now, heh :P)

ForzaFiori
2007-08-06, 09:49 PM
Crush-cam update:

Bombed :(

The conversation was going well (I need to create a friendly atmosphere before making the move), but before I could do my thing she mentions she's seeing someone. The guy she talked about, apparently it's still on. She even showed me a pic :S

Then I still told her I was planning on asking her out. She took it well, meh... :S Crap...This always happens to me...I hate it when they "my boyfriend" me out of the blue.

I need a random hug. Just a little hug and I'll be back to my usual manageable level of depression :p

But I'm not giving up yet...I'll retire slightly to plan a new strategy and wait in the shadows. Something went wrong here, and it will be improved next time.


I really hate that man.
last year, i had something like that happen, almost made me lose both the girl I like, and my best friend. the best friend was gonna ask the girl out, and he told me (thankfully), and i manged to talk him out of it (he went on to date someone else, while i dated the first girl.). It would have sucked if he hadn't told me though, i would have beaten his ass, cause he knew i like her.

Dragonrider
2007-08-06, 11:21 PM
Aww, *hugs* to all you people with romantical problems... I know they help cuz they sure did with me. :smallsmile:

Speaking of that...I'm getting to the point now where I can think about it in a (fairly) rational way and I'm thinking this is probably for the best that it comes out now. Because if he and I had started dating (or even just had more of a relationship than we ever did) and then my cousin came in at THAT point, the whole situation would have been WAY worse. She pretty much has him wrapped around her finger.

Anyway, I talked to him on the phone about five times last week, and he's made it pretty clear that he wants me as a friend. I can definitely live with that - and having our relationship clear-cut is going to help me getting over him.

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-06, 11:26 PM
Crush-cam update:

Bombed :(

The conversation was going well (I need to create a friendly atmosphere before making the move), but before I could do my thing she mentions she's seeing someone. The guy she talked about, apparently it's still on. She even showed me a pic :S

Then I still told her I was planning on asking her out. She took it well, meh... :S Crap...This always happens to me...I hate it when they "my boyfriend" me out of the blue.

I need a random hug. Just a little hug and I'll be back to my usual manageable level of depression :p

But I'm not giving up yet...I'll retire slightly to plan a new strategy and wait in the shadows. Something went wrong here, and it will be improved next time.How about a manly shoulder pat instead?
*manly shoulder pat*

I'd still say the fact that she took it well bodes well for you in the "you'll still be good friends" aspect.

I'm curious, though. How do you mean "she took it well"? Depending on circumstances it could mean either "not you right now, but don't give up hope in case this doesn't work out" or it could mean "I like you, but not like that, but I don't want to lose what we've already got".

Of course neither is bad but it could help you plan for the future. I'd say given that she shared with you that she's looking for someone (even though already in an apparently not so serious relationship) means that at the very least she views you in a positive light.

At this point, though, I'd actually have to agree with something David D said (who I generally abhor, by the way). Date other people. At least show interest in other people. Only I say this not with the intention of making her jealous. I'm saying it meaning that it can show her that you're not pining for her and are capable of being happy without her even if you would like it if you could be with her.

I hope that made sense. If not, I'll try to elaborate.


Aww, *hugs* to all you people with romantical problems... I know they help cuz they sure did with me. :smallsmile:

Speaking of that...I'm getting to the point now where I can think about it in a (fairly) rational way and I'm thinking this is probably for the best that it comes out now. Because if he and I had started dating (or even just had more of a relationship than we ever did) and then my cousin came in at THAT point, the whole situation would have been WAY worse. She pretty much has him wrapped around her finger.

Anyway, I talked to him on the phone about five times last week, and he's made it pretty clear that he wants me as a friend. I can definitely live with that - and having our relationship clear-cut is going to help me getting over him.That's great to hear, DR. I think I speak for all of us when I say we're glad we could help. :smallcool:

Alarra
2007-08-06, 11:59 PM
In that same vein, it can also make it harder to maintain a friendship if one or the other does appear to harbor strong feelings that aren't necessarily reciprocated. You can uphold all appearances of still being great friends, but there will generally be this slight tension under the surface and in spite of the greatest intentions both people's behavior will have changed. Moving on works helps to reduce this tension and bring things back to where things were before. At least, that's been my experience.

Logic
2007-08-07, 12:11 AM
In that same vein, it can also make it harder to maintain a friendship if one or the other does appear to harbor strong feelings that aren't necessarily reciprocated. You can uphold all appearances of still being great friends, but there will generally be this slight tension under the surface and in spite of the greatest intentions both people's behavior will have changed. Moving on works helps to reduce this tension and bring things back to where things were before. At least, that's been my experience.

Being on both sides of the "unreciprocated-feelings-that-we-both-know-about-but-are-still-friends" fence, I have to say that it is harder to be comfortable being just friends.

Unfortunately, the crusher has a harder time with this than the crushee.

Dragonrider
2007-08-07, 12:13 AM
Also hard when you're sitting there knowing they know about you and wondering what they think about it. Because even if they say they're okay with it, you're wondering if they really MEAN that or if they're just saying it because they feel bad about not liking you back.

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-07, 12:16 AM
Which gets back to what we are saying. Move on. It makes continuing the friendship easier for all involved.

Logic
2007-08-07, 12:18 AM
Which gets back to what we are saying. Move on. It makes continuing the friendship easier for all involved.
Easier said than done.

Though it does help to have other interesting prospects.

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-07, 12:20 AM
Easier said than done.

Though it does help to have other interesting prospects.I won't deny that, but even the looking helps.

And apparently I must wait longer between posts.

Vonriel
2007-08-07, 12:23 AM
I get that in the SMBG forum a lot. Most of my posts here, though, tend to be lengthy or few and far between...

Erm, I can't really comment on the current line of conversation.

Alarra
2007-08-07, 12:27 AM
Being on both sides of the "unreciprocated-feelings-that-we-both-know-about-but-are-still-friends" fence, I have to say that it is harder to be comfortable being just friends.

Unfortunately, the crusher has a harder time with this than the crushee.

I've been on both sides of this as well, and neither is at all easy. But in the long run, some friendships are really worth pushing through the awkwardness and can become even stronger than they were before. It's hard, and can be awkward and strained, and to really be 'friends' you both have to have put the 'something more' aside. But it can and does work.

Vuzzmop
2007-08-07, 01:58 AM
Definately what Allara said. For a reference, watch a few episodes of "friends", they switch partners more than square-dancers, but it turns out okay. It may seem unrealistic, and it is, but just try to keep the friendship together, and let the other feelings slowly change to those of a stronger, but platonic relationship.

Tor the Fallen
2007-08-07, 02:04 AM
Definately what Allara said. For a reference, watch a few episodes of "friends", they switch partners more than square-dancers, but it turns out okay. It may seem unrealistic, and it is, but just try to keep the friendship together, and let the other feelings slowly change to those of a stronger, but platonic relationship.

Totally agree. You should watch Friends for dating advice.

Alarra
2007-08-07, 02:06 AM
Hahahahaha...

erm...sorry.

How many times has Ross been married again? :smallwink:

Jibar
2007-08-07, 02:07 AM
3.
Unless he did get married to Rachel after it ended. Then it's 4.

I might watch Friends...

Hell Puppi
2007-08-07, 02:08 AM
Jibar...your siggy makes me wonder...
What would you get if you mixed a hell puppi with a cat muffin?

Logic
2007-08-07, 02:18 AM
Jibar...your siggy makes me wonder...
What would you get if you mixed a hell puppi with a cat muffin?

A sitcom. Extra text!

Hell Puppi
2007-08-07, 02:22 AM
Well that's...anti-climactic.

Glaivemaster
2007-08-07, 03:55 AM
Well, time to ask you expert advice givers for some advice I suppose. Luckily, this doesn't come under the 'Woes' part of the thread, so I won't make myself a priority.

So, to quickly sum up: Girl I like (I'll call her Sarah). My friend introduced us a while back, with whatever intentions she had, because we're very similar people apparently. Which is entirely true. Sarah and I got to talking a lot on MSN, and I found that I really liked her (and she seemed to like me too). So I asked to meet her in person, since I hadn't yet, and I like to be able to put names to faces. However, even though we were going out for 'lunch', which in the end turned out to be eating chips in a park, we were only going as friends. I enjoyed the day, and liked Sarah even more than I'd realised at first.

I asked the friend that introduced us recently why she'd introduced us, because we're alike and she wanted us to be friends, or because she thought me and Sarah should get together. She said that originally it had been intended mainly as friends, but she'd like to see us get together, and admitted that Sarah probably would as well. That's what I'd been assuming as well.

We went out again yesterday, saw a movie (Transformers, surprisingly good actually), and generally had a great time doing not much at all.

The advice is needed here: What would be the best way of asking Sarah out, bearing in mind that her best friend says she likes me enough, and that I have previously done things with her (gone for a meal, gone to a movie) that might be considered date-y, and all future suggestions in that vein would probably turn out as a friends thing?

Also, how can I make my questions shorter, so that they become easier to read and you don't have to wade through a load of nonsense before reaching the end and forgetting that there was a question there until you reach the question mark? :smalltongue:

Thanks for reading

Alarra
2007-08-07, 04:09 AM
Well....I'm always a fan of a simple: "Would you like to go out with me?"
But then, I rarely ask people out, so I'm hardly a good person to ask...but simple, direct, honest...best way to go, especially if you're already fairly certain she likes you.

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-07, 04:20 AM
Hey, happy news!

I'm actually not that experienced in what you're asking about, being a bit the shy type myself, but let me sort of share what worked for me recently. I said "Hey, I had a lot of fun with you this weekend and I found that I like you more than I anticipated I would. If you aren't opposed to the idea, I'd like to continue seeing you and see where it goes." Only, I ended up doing it via PM for various reasons and had a lot time to compose exactly what I wanted to say (twice, as it happened, but that's another story) and it was quite a bit longer. You could try taking that sentiment, though, and rewording it so it doesn't sound like you're reading a cue card and has a more natural "speaking" flow to it.

EDIT: Or you could take ^'s advice which is much simpler than mine. :smalltongue:

Serpentine
2007-08-07, 04:23 AM
"Would you like to go out with me?"
Ugh. As I've said previously, I hate this one. Though it'd probably be more acceptable in these circumstances... The way I'd like it to happen is if on one of these ordinary outings you just took her hand, and maybe snuck in a kiss as a goodbye... but then again, my current relationship began with several weeks of being "cosy", an afternoon of makeouts, my saying "so are you mine now?", and him getting all uppity at the suggestion that he'd make out with me all afternoon and not consider me his. So yeah...
What I'd suggest is just the next time you intend to arrange one of these outings, say something along the lines of "would you like to have lunch again on Saturday? Say, as, you know, a date?" Just out and say it...

Alarra
2007-08-07, 04:28 AM
While the 'just falling into things' can work well, a lot of times it's nice to have it spelled out, especially if you worry about one of you taking things in a 'date' manner and the other in a 'friend' manner. Better to be clear from the start.

Of course, I also follow the sentiment that holding someone's hand or perhaps occasionally making out with them doesn't necessarily translate into actually 'going out with' them. At least, in high school, it didn't, and for a lot of people I knew in college also. That being said...if I want to start a relationship with someone, I'll generally try to work things to where I'm holding their hand, or will give them a kiss, but still would generally wait for them to actually ask or clarify that we are dating.

AngelSword
2007-08-07, 04:38 AM
Ugh. As I've said previously, I hate this one. Though it'd probably be more acceptable in these circumstances... The way I'd like it to happen is if on one of these ordinary outings you just took her hand, and maybe snuck in a kiss as a goodbye... but then again, my current relationship began with several weeks of being "cosy", an afternoon of makeouts, my saying "so are you mine now?", and him getting all uppity at the suggestion that he'd make out with me all afternoon and not consider me his.

Funny, that's quite similar how my last relationship started (as well as the relationship with that girl in a previous encounter). We were in her room, watching a movie, and I looked over to her, and said, "We're in a relationship, aren't we?"

Surprisingly (or not, depending on how cynical you are), both relationships ended the same way, too.

Serpentine
2007-08-07, 05:14 AM
Of course, I also follow the sentiment that holding someone's hand or perhaps occasionally making out with them doesn't necessarily translate into actually 'going out with' them.
Thus my "are you mine yet?" clarification. Yeah, I guess it does have to be stated properly at some point...

Alarra
2007-08-07, 05:24 AM
But you see, my dear Serpentine...starting out with things clarified would mean you wouldn't have to cuddle in uncertainty for several weeks before you finally clarify things. :smallwink:

Serpentine
2007-08-07, 05:29 AM
Ah, but it is that uncertainty, indeed, that makes me love those days so much. The coy glances, furtive brushes, covert toe-touches... *whistful sigh* They're the reason males exist... Once it's official, almost all of that is gone. What is still there, loses its charm...

Alarra
2007-08-07, 05:35 AM
Well, perhaps so....I mean, okay, I'll give you that there's an excitement to that. But I prefer things certain. I don't like the uncomfortable feeling of wondering if what I'm doing is okay or if things are still on track or if I'm screwing everything up. Although, even with a 'certain' relationship, you'll have a lot of that in beginning stages. But clarifying that you're both on the same page as far as that goes can eliminate a fair bit of that in my experience.

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-07, 05:38 AM
Ah, but it is that uncertainty, indeed, that makes me love those days so much. The coy glances, furtive brushes, covert toe-touches... *whistful sigh* They're the reason males exist... Once it's official, almost all of that is gone. What is still there, loses its charm...I wholeheartedly disagree. There is still plenty of that kind of flirty exploration in the early days of a romance regardless of whether or not it's spelled out.

Alarra
2007-08-07, 05:40 AM
I wholeheartedly disagree. There is still plenty of that kind of flirty exploration in the early days of a romance regardless of whether or not it's spelled out.

Yes. Yes there is. I agree with this.

Rykaj
2007-08-07, 05:48 AM
A great non-friendy rather date-y way of inviting someone I like would be to invite them over for dinner. Then cook your speciality. Buy some wine and have some after dinner snacks in case she stays. If conversations seem to drop provide other entertainment, maybe even some movies. It's easy to set a mood in such an environment and it offers no obligations. And I found that girls love it if you cook for them.

Alarra
2007-08-07, 05:53 AM
And I found that girls love it if you cook for them.

This is very true. At least, I love it when people cook for me, maybe because I never cook myself. I should though, really....*makes note to cook something (that isn't pasta) sometime this summer* In reality though, cooking a really nice dinner for someone shows a level of effort that can be found rather impressive. Especially if you actually can cook. Although, cooking something horribly can also be a fun date experience and something you can laugh at later.

Zeb The Troll
2007-08-07, 05:57 AM
*hmmm. Adds "ruin macaroni and cheese" to list of things to do to impress Alarra* :smalltongue:

Serpentine
2007-08-07, 05:59 AM
I suppose it partly comes down to the fact that I think I could be just as happy with casual flirtation as with a long-term relationship, at least at this point, so I don't really need that certainty because I could be happy with it either way. Of course, in the time I've been out of high school (3.5 years), I've only been single for about 6 months, so I haven't had much opportunity to test this theory...

I think I should probably give a bit of my background so people know the bias that's probably in a lot of my advice, and also quite possibly responsible for some of the above sentiment, somehow. Note: any expressions of sympathy or whatever will be met with confusion :smallconfused:
First of all, my mother ran off with a colleague when I was 6 (she very kindly waited until after my birthday. Of course, then she couldn't wait a few minutes for me to get home after school and just sent her secretary on a failed mission to find me... not that I'm bitter, mind :smallwink:). Although it's never been confirmed, it's been generally assumed that they were having an affair before this, but what really irks me is that she claimed that she and my father "just stopped loving each other" - as I'm told he said to my sister, that's bull****. He "still loved her". (on a side note, apparently shortly before their elopement, mum's now husband took his family to the town the two would run to, the school to which I eventually went, the house they lived in, as though he was going to move there with his own wife and kids. After they left, his then wife called my dad, confused about what had happened. At least my mum had the decency to tell us that she was leaving... but neither of them have any real moral authority over me anymore when it comes to relationships. Not that any of this is likely to have had any direct effect on my views of relationships, just a side-note). I think from this I partly get my perception of relationships as being largely transitory things, and also an idea of how much goes on in a relationship that noone knows about, possibly even including those involved.
So. This was about 14 years ago. In that 14 years, my dad has had more than 7 girlfriends (definitely 7, and I'm sure there's some I've forgotten or didn't know about). Some were nice, some were cool, others were freaky or mad or vain or stupid, but I know he loved, or at least liked very much, all of them. After the last girlfriend (one of the nutty ones), he told me he was tired of it all, and that he had decided that the next one was it, however it went (a bit scary, considering how little I like the new lady, but at least she has cool eyes). Anyway, this is how I expect my life to be, at least for a while. I expect I'll go through several relationships, some long or short, no doubt at least a couple of nasty ones, probably some perfect one that I'll completely screw up, before I get to the person and the place in life when I feel ready to "settle down", as they say. In fact, I look forward to it - even the nasty ones. So there's the rest of the transience of love and relationships, and also, I think, a bit of understanding and/or sympathy for the male side of dating. In fact, one of the pieces of advice I remember best and hold dear to my heart is his command that I never, ever say no when a guy asks me to dance, because it took so much courage just to ask. Unfortunately I've never had an opportunity to exercise this decree, and it'd be nice if it applied to girls asking guys, too, but at least it reminds me that guys are cowards at heart shy and uncertain too.

So, yeah. Probably some sources of bias, there. Thought it might be handy to know in case it turns out my advice is rather specific and, well, wrong.

Alarra
2007-08-07, 05:59 AM
Now...mac and cheese isn't really 'cooking' and if you manage to ruin that, well...that's a whole different level of impressing. :smalltongue:

Edit: @^ See, I on the other hand, don't like to look at relationships as transient things. I like to try to imagine each one as being the one I stay with forever and I think that's why I will push so hard to keep a relationship together once I'm in it, in spite of whatever problems, imperfections, and even lack of love I've found in some of my past ones. However, I can certainly see where you're coming from and consider that a valid way to view them, since really...most relationships aren't realistically for forever anyway.

Holy_Knight
2007-08-07, 07:37 AM
I suppose it partly comes down to the fact that I think I could be just as happy with casual flirtation as with a long-term relationship, at least at this point, so I don't really need that certainty because I could be happy with it either way. Of course, in the time I've been out of high school (3.5 years), I've only been single for about 6 months, so I haven't had much opportunity to test this theory...

I think I should probably give a bit of my background so people know the bias that's probably in a lot of my advice, and also quite possibly responsible for some of the above sentiment, somehow. Note: any expressions of sympathy or whatever will be met with confusion :smallconfused:
First of all, my mother ran off with a colleague when I was 6 (she very kindly waited until after my birthday. Of course, then she couldn't wait a few minutes for me to get home after school and just sent her secretary on a failed mission to find me... not that I'm bitter, mind :smallwink:). Although it's never been confirmed, it's been generally assumed that they were having an affair before this, but what really irks me is that she claimed that she and my father "just stopped loving each other" - as I'm told he said to my sister, that's bull****. He "still loved her". (on a side note, apparently shortly before their elopement, mum's now husband took his family to the town the two would run to, the school to which I eventually went, the house they lived in, as though he was going to move there with his own wife and kids. After they left, his then wife called my dad, confused about what had happened. At least my mum had the decency to tell us that she was leaving... but neither of them have any real moral authority over me anymore when it comes to relationships. Not that any of this is likely to have had any direct effect on my views of relationships, just a side-note). I think from this I partly get my perception of relationships as being largely transitory things, and also an idea of how much goes on in a relationship that noone knows about, possibly even including those involved.
So. This was about 14 years ago. In that 14 years, my dad has had more than 7 girlfriends (definitely 7, and I'm sure there's some I've forgotten or didn't know about). Some were nice, some were cool, others were freaky or mad or vain or stupid, but I know he loved, or at least liked very much, all of them. After the last girlfriend (one of the nutty ones), he told me he was tired of it all, and that he had decided that the next one was it, however it went (a bit scary, considering how little I like the new lady, but at least she has cool eyes). Anyway, this is how I expect my life to be, at least for a while. I expect I'll go through several relationships, some long or short, no doubt at least a couple of nasty ones, probably some perfect one that I'll completely screw up, before I get to the person and the place in life when I feel ready to "settle down", as they say. In fact, I look forward to it - even the nasty ones. So there's the rest of the transience of love and relationships, and also, I think, a bit of understanding and/or sympathy for the male side of dating. In fact, one of the pieces of advice I remember best and hold dear to my heart is his command that I never, ever say no when a guy asks me to dance, because it took so much courage just to ask. Unfortunately I've never had an opportunity to exercise this decree, and it'd be nice if it applied to girls asking guys, too, but at least it reminds me that guys are cowards at heart shy and uncertain too.

So, yeah. Probably some sources of bias, there. Thought it might be handy to know in case it turns out my advice is rather specific and, well, wrong.

At the risk of offering unsolicited advice--and maybe sounding trite or something--Serpentine, I guess I'd like to say to you that things don't have to be that way. You had to live through a bad situation (to say nothing of your poor father), and that's obviously going to affect how you perceive the world and relationships. But I hope you won't take that as a sign that when you finally "settle down", it means you'll really be settling. You owe it to yourself to be hopeful for, and work for, a truly good relationship that will last because you and the other person really love and care for each other. Perhaps I sound overly sentimental here, but I'm being sincere. I hope you'll take what I say to heart.

On another note, your mention about asking people to dance reminded me of a recent story from my own life on that topic, so I'm going to make a thread about it later today. :smallsmile:


A great non-friendy rather date-y way of inviting someone I like would be to invite them over for dinner. Then cook your speciality. Buy some wine and have some after dinner snacks in case she stays. If conversations seem to drop provide other entertainment, maybe even some movies. It's easy to set a mood in such an environment and it offers no obligations. And I found that girls love it if you cook for them.
This is true, although sometimes people can interpret cooking dinner for them as a sign of certain intentions on your part. One of the first dates I had with my ex-girlfriend, when we had first met and before we officially started dating, was me inviting her to my house so I could cook for her. Now, my intentions were innocent, but she did tell me later on that she had thought I was doing it to try to get her into bed. So, that's just something to be aware of, that certain people might perceive it that way.

Serpentine
2007-08-07, 07:50 AM
At the risk of offering unsolicited advice--and maybe sounding trite or something--Serpentine, I guess I'd like to say to you that things don't have to be that way. You had to live through a bad situation (to say nothing of your poor father), and that's obviously going to affect how you perceive the world and relationships. But I hope you won't take that as a sign that when you finally "settle down", it means you'll really be settling. You owe it to yourself to be hopeful for, and work for, a truly good relationship that will last because you and the other person really love and care for each other. Perhaps I sound overly sentimental here, but I'm being sincere. I hope you'll take what I say to heart.
...I'm a way? I didn't know there was anything to fix :smalltongue: I didn't mean to suggest that I don't aim to have good relationships or anything like that. In fact, I'm quite proud of the one I have right now - lots of communication, silliness, love, and geekiness. At risk of worrying him (though he never comes out of Gaming anyway), I must admit I'm starting to feel a bit... itchy for singledom lately, I still love him and everything. It's sort of... I could see myself living out my days with him, but before that, I want to see what other relationships are like, good and bad, experience different ways of getting together, what it's like being together with other people, etc etc. Is that bad?

By the way, I don't remember most of that stuff happening. Hell, I don't think I was all that aware of it at the time. I even made up memories that didn't happen around it (my sister went off at me for telling someone that our parents used to fight a lot. she told me later that it was because she was jealous that I'd made up these memories to make sense of it all or something). And anyway, it meant I got to travel interstate every holiday :smallbiggrin:

Alarra
2007-08-07, 08:05 AM
but before that, I want to see what other relationships are like, good and bad, experience different ways of getting together, what it's like being together with other people, etc etc. Is that bad?

No. Not at all. It's actually a really good idea to take time, date quite a few people, learn, grow, find out what you really want. A lot of times when you marry the first person you date, you eventually realize that you haven't experienced anything else and begin to wonder 'what if' and think that things aren't as good as they could be because you have nothing to compare them to. Having experiences isn't a bad thing at all. I think the point that both I and HK were trying to say, is that the way your post sounded, it sounded like you were going into relationships knowing before they start that they won't last, which is a good way to doom yourself from the start, or that you don't expect to find someone that makes you happy, and will end up settling. Neither point of which I think you actually meant. So I'm sorry if I read things wrong and into your post that weren't there.

Glaivemaster
2007-08-07, 08:50 AM
Hurrah, advice! To be honest, I was already considering the "Will you go out with me?" way of things, probably the next time we have a day out together. I'm determined to make that one a proper dinner as well, but we'll see how it goes. I mainly just wanted back up for it.

I've tried with previous 'relationships' to have that sort of uncertainty thing that Serpentine does, but generally it ends up that they just go and find someone else, since they're not officially seeing me. That's why I need the certainty. That, and I think that if the certainty wasn't there, we'd end up just as friends, so I need to get my position out there as soon as possible, not that I'm averse to the idea of just being friends.

Luckily we'll be seeing each other weekly now, so I'll have plenty of opportunity to talk to her about it in person.

Jibar
2007-08-07, 09:16 AM
So, yeah. Probably some sources of bias, there. Thought it might be handy to know in case it turns out my advice is rather specific and, well, wrong.

The funny thing is, I've heard all that story before. And I don't know how.
Hmmm...

Don't worry about bias from that anyway. During my talks with best friend's girlfriend (I hate referring to people like that), I've learnt a lot about the other view of love. Said girlfriend has a father who is getting married for the fourth time soon. The last wife actually made quite a lot of mess with their divorce, as the father now can't see two of his sons, who are in care I believe. But, she's given me quite an insight into how she thinks. It's rather similar to yours really.
Me, I'm a hopeless romantic. I still believe in true love, in romance and soul mates, not having let life strike it from me. I'm bitter, cynical. kinda nihilistic and rather pessimistic, but if there is one thing I believe in it is love.

By the by Serp, if you do decide to strike out single, you just know that half the boards, primarily Mr Pixie, will be all over you right away. :smallwink: