PDA

View Full Version : Pathfinder Thoughtful Wish-Maker trait rework for Imperious Wishcrafter Sorcerer?



Levism84
2017-05-23, 12:15 AM
I have an idea for a character who is basically an immortal wish-granting human who love to play games with words and wishes (see Mechanical Gymnastics for build, below). Using the wishes of his allies, his enemies, or those around him to fuel his magic gives him an ego boost. While he is not always the smartest person in the room (Int 13), he should be fairly competent (mechanically speaking) when it comes to interpreting the wording of wishes.

There is a regional trait called Thoughtful Wish-Maker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/thoughtful-wish-maker-plane-of-fire) that I was considering having him take. However, the trait is worded in such a way the benefits of the trait only apply when the character is himself trying to word a wish. I was wondering if this rewording of the trait would allow the character to potentially bend the wishes of his enemies or others so as to use his wishbound arcana ability more reliably.

Thoughtful Wish-Granter (Ifrit)
You are well acquainted with the many ways wishes can be twisted.
Benefit(s): You gain a +2 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks. Furthermore, if you succeed on a DC 25 Sense Motive check prior to granting any wish made by a humanoid, you become aware if the wish has a potential pitfall. If you succeed at this check by 5 or more, you figure out how to interpret the wish in such a way that its words become twisted.

Mechanically speaking, this would allow the character to make a DC 25 Sense Motive check prior to granting a wish to a humanoid in order to learn if a wish can be twisted and a DC 30 Sense Motive check to learn how to twist the wish, such as using illusion magic or perverting the original intent. However, this seems to rely mechanically on something the player (me) or the DM should work on together, figuring out how the wish could be twisted. However, I really liked the feel and flavor of the trait.

My question to the forum is how can this be worked to keep the feel of the trait but smooth over the mechanics? Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.


Race: Ifrit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ifrit)
Alternative Racial Trait: Mostly Human

Class: Sorcerer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer)
Bloodline: Imperious (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/racial-bloodlines/imperious-bloodline-sorcerer-human/)
Archetype: Wishcrafter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ifrit/wishcrafter-sorcerer-ifrit)

Variant Multiclass: Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle)
Mystery: Flame (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo-oracle-mysteries/flame/) or Lore (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo-oracle-mysteries/lore/)
Curse: Legalistic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses/)

As an ifrit with mostly human, my character can grab both the imperious bloodline for humans and the wishcrafter archetype for ifrits. He can also gain the human favored class bonus of one spell known per level that is one level lower than the highest level spell he can cast. The name of the game is versatility and incognito, so extra spells and blending in with the most populous race in most campaign settings is an important advantage. Adding in the VMC Oracle keys off of Charisma (a sorcerer's bread and butter), and the Legalistic curse fits perfectly with the theme of a Lawful Evil character playing up both his human and efreet roots while maintaining playability in a mixed group (he uses his wishcraft magic to aid his allies, hinder his enemies, and amuse himself with everyone else). I am torn between Flame and Lore for his mystery (although I would love to see other VMC oracle options for mysteries added since the VMC rules came out). Flame would be good to pick up burning magic, molten skin, and touch of flame to add some fire-based offensive and defensive options, however Lore would be useful for automatic writing, spontaneous symbology, and think on it to gain access to some flavorful divination magic, a knowledge safety-net, and ALL the symbol spells (hey, symbol spells may be situational in their usefulness, but more spells = more versatility). Also, VMC Oracle is the only surefire way I know to give my sorcerer character access to create water at will without a level dip. Since water is life and I want to build my vast spell list off of meeting the needs and desires of others, being able to create life-giving water at will seems pretty essential.

nikkoli
2017-05-23, 08:41 AM
That's a rather interesting twist for the trait. Although dc 25 seems low. You get limited wish at 14 correct and then get wish at 18, so that's your skill ranks, and I'm guessing you'd take a trait to make sense notice a class skill and give a little boost, so with that and ranks you'd be at a +18 without magic items or your wisdom when you first get limited wish. I'd push the dc up to 30 so that it can pretend to be a difficult task when you get real wish and have somewhere between +20 and +30 to the skill.

Also side note, how does your ifrit count as human? They lack that racial trait that 1/2 orc/elf have that let them count as both. Unless your gm let you pop it on there and boost them up to 8ish RP.
Edit: ah I see, the alt racial trait.

rferries
2017-05-23, 08:35 PM
Be Careful What You Wish For (Ifrit)
You are well acquainted with the many ways wishes can be twisted.
Benefit(s): You gain a +2 trait bonus on Bluff checks. Furthermore, if you succeed on a Bluff check prior to granting any wish made by another creature, you may trick the wisher into making an ambiguously worded wish (the outcome of which you may pervert appropriately).

If you beat the wisher's Sense Motive DC by 10 or more and possess Wishbound Arcana, you may use that class feature to cast any spell (even one you do not know or that does not appear on your class spell list). You may only use this ability to pervert the stated desire of the wisher, and must expend a spell slot of equal or greater level to the desired spell. Ignore any expensive material components and XP costs when casting a spell in this way.

---

Now it's a scaling DC (you have to beat the victim's Sense Motive), and allows a much broader varierty of effects (so long as you're not benefiting personally). Caveat emptor!

rferries
2017-05-23, 08:40 PM
Actually I wish I had read the rest of the wishcrafter bloodline! My "fix" makes much of the bloodline redundant and is therefore probably too powerful... maybe delete the 2nd paragraph of my fix and keep the Bluff part.

Levism84
2017-05-23, 11:40 PM
Be Careful What You Wish For (Ifrit)
You are well acquainted with the many ways wishes can be twisted.
Benefit(s): You gain a +2 trait bonus on Bluff checks. Furthermore, if you succeed on a Bluff check prior to granting any wish made by another creature, you may trick the wisher into making an ambiguously worded wish (the outcome of which you may pervert appropriately).


You beautiful bastard-sword!

I never would have thought to look at it from the point of view of using Bluff to get the person to make an ambiguously worded wish. I especially like that it would be an opposed role against the target's Sense Motive check, making less aware marks easy pickings but making people with their heads on a swivel a fun challenge. I agree with your second post, the second paragraph is very OP for a trait. The name and flavor text is very lovely. I don't think the trait should impose penalties on the wisher (wishcrafter does a good job of baking those into the build), but maybe a clarification of the limits of what a wishcrafter could do. Also, using language to help specify the wish spell isn't the only spell that can be used for this ability.

Still, going in the right direction I think.