Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

[Temotei]

Base Class Challenge Chat Thread V:
I Scored at the Top of My Base Class


Welcome to Chat Thread Five for the Base Class Contest. Talk about the contest, give critiques on others' work (if welcome), ask for help, and complain to me here.

Any entries for contests should be entered in the current contest and discussed here. That is, anything other than entries goes here.

For those of you into making smaller portions of homebrew, there's the Local Speakeasy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?525365-Local-Speakeasy-Competition-Chat-II-No-Shirt-No-Shoes-Materials-Provided-within) now. For those interested in making prestige classes, there's a Prestige Class Contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?539241-Prestige-Class-Contest-Chat-Thread-I).

Current Contest - A Homebrew Bumper Crop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571836-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXV-A-Homebrew-Bumper-Crop)

Past Contests



Contest
Name
First Place
Winner


I
The Light Beckons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8008389)
Twilight Caster
Owrtho


II
Altar of Naught (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8591867)
Ebon Initiate
ErrantX


III
Can I Borrow That? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9411886)
Hemoscribe
Morph Bark


IV
Tipping the Scale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10075276)
Gambler
PairO'Dice Lost


V
You're MIND! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10504199)
Mindwarped
dragonjek


VI
Let's Play Dress Up! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199119)
Stylist
Cipherthe3vil


VII
You've Been PUNK'D! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206927)
Generator
ErrantX


VIII
One Small Step for a Contest...One Giant Step for Contestkind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216894)
Zodiac
Derjuin


IX
Better Than it Sounds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12291460)
Farmer
Derjuin


X
Name That Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230747)
Tempest Warlord
Silva Stormrage


XI
Big Money Weave a Mighty Web (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237024)
Companion
titanreaver


XII
Race Race (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244379)
Son of Man
Morph Bark


XIII
On a Whim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250826)
Cycle Warden
sirpercival


XIV
Champions and Mooks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257051)
Ley Engineer
sirpercival


XV
Lights! Camera! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14312272)
Extractor
sirpercival


XVI
Doing What We Must Because We Can (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270292)
Astronomer
sirpercival


XVII
Heroes of Note: Keeping it Trill (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278523)
TreüthSyngër
BelGareth


XVIII
Crazy Hobos Everywhere (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15464432)
Panphobic
sirpercival


XIX
Inner Might (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301714)
Jinnblood
Zaydos


XX
Fables and Mythos and Tales, Oh My (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16437957)
Tall Tale
Zaydos


XXI
Can I Get Some Booze From the Crowd? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16826376)
Intoxicanter
Zaydos


XXII
Taking Pixars of Dreamworks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?343354-Base-Class-Contest-XXII-Taking-Pixars-of-Dreamworks)
Mecha Ace
Jester of Doom


XXIII
Armageddon Ready (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357758-Base-Class-Contest-XXIII-Armageddon-Ready)
Doomsayer
Zaydos


XXIV
Will Breed for Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367155-Base-Class-Contest-XXIV-Will-Breed-for-Class)
Dragonsoul Acolyte
Zaydos


XXV
Dungeon Plunge-In (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?379797-Base-Class-Contest-XXV-Dungeon-Plunge-In)
Dungeon Master
Jormengand


XXVI
Flipping the Table (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?390385-Base-Class-Contest-XXVI-Flipping-the-Table)
Simic Biomancer
Zaydos


XXVII
Pretty in Pink (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402537-Base-Class-Contest-XXVII-Pretty-in-Pink)
Princess
Zaydos


XXVIII
(Maybe) Morally Justified (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414463-Base-Class-Contest-XXVIII-(Maybe)-Morally-Justified)
Karmic Avenger
sengmeng


XXIX
Games. Games Everywhere (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427253-Base-Class-Contest-XXIX-Games-Games-Everywhere)
Freelancer
Zaydos


XXX
A Study in Beige (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?441142-Base-Class-Contest-XXX-A-Study-in-Beige)
Inventor
Jormengand


XXXI
Consumption of the Masses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461085-Base-Class-Contest-XXXI-Consumption-of-the-Masses-3-5)
Potion Maker
Jormengand


XXXII
Tipping the Scale II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477112-Base-Class-Contest-XXXII-Tipping-the-Scale-II-3-5)
Dude Who Does Tai Chi
sengmeng


XXXIII
...And Old Lace (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483750-Base-Class-Contest-XXXIII-And-Old-Lace-3-5)
Juicer
Beelzebub1111


XXXIV
All You Can Treat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?490388-Base-Class-Contest-XXXIV-All-You-Can-Treat)
Saccharine Slayer
Jormengand


XXXV
Schooling the Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496957-Base-Class-Contest-XXXV-Schooling-the-Competition)
Paragon of Duality
Jormengand


XXXVI
Contest Under Construction (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503609-Base-Class-Contest-XXXVI-Contest-Under-Construction)
Imagineer
sirpercival


XXXVII
Upsy-Daisy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509863-Base-Class-Contest-XXXVII-Upsy-Daisy)
Incompetent
JNAProductions


XXXVIII
I Ain't No Idiom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517115-Base-Class-Contest-XXXVIII-I-Ain-t-No-Idiom)
Idiomancer
Jormengand


XXXIX
Undermined Scruples (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?522358-Base-Class-Contest-XXXIX-Undermined-Scruples)
Dream Weaver
Zaydos


XXXX
Happy Little Accidents (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526968-Base-Class-Contest-XXXX-Happy-Little-Accidents)
Antiquarian
knitifine


XXXXI
It's in Our Nature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?531764-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXI-It-s-in-Our-Nature)
Harbinger
Lanth Sor


XXXXII
Entropy and Renewal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540722-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXII-Entropy-and-Renewal)
Nameless One
rferries


XXXXIII
Hey, I Know That Guy! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?558705-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXIII-Hey-I-Know-That-Guy!)
Rescuer / Wanderer
Alabenson / Jormengand


XXXIV
Power Word: Homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?564219-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXIV-Power-Word-Homebrew)
Guide
rferries



Past Chat Threads



Thread
Subtitle


I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144172)
-


II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181782)
-


III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257591-Base-Class-Challenge-Chat-Thread-III-Gotta-Brew-Em-All!)
Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!


IV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367530-Base-Class-Challenge-Chat-Thread-IV-All-Your-Base-Class-Are-Belong-to-Us)
All Your Base Class Are Belong to Us

[khadgar567]

Dot for the dot god

[Eno Remnant]

In the spirit of a fresh new thread, the Transcendent has a fresh new capstone. Feel free to let me know what you think, I'm still not sure on how good it is.

Fluff will be written in the next 24 hours, if all goes according to plan.

[Temotei]

Fluff will be written in the next 24 hours, if all goes according to plan.

Heh. Plans.

Voting for XXXIX is over!

1st Place: Dream weaver, by Zaydos!

2nd Place: Lawbender, by Sandwyrm!

3rd Place: Doctor, by Almarck!

That was a great round--I was really glad to see so many entries.

[Knitifine]

I wonder if it's worth entering a class this late...

[Temotei]

I wonder if it's worth entering a class this late...

This late? There's still a month left on this contest.

[Knitifine]

This late? There's still a month left on this contest.
Oh! Thank you for correcting me, I read that due date as being two days from now instead of a month.

[Temotei]

Oh! Thank you for correcting me, I read that due date as being two days from now instead of a month.

No problem. Good luck on your entry!

[Jormengand]

Does game design count as arts and crafts?

Because if so, I have a significantly dumb idea.

[Morphic tide]

Does game design count as arts and crafts?

Because if so, I have a significantly dumb idea.

Forcing people to play by made-up system rules in-universe?

[Jormengand]

Forcing people to play by made-up system rules in-universe?

I'm thinking of some kind of Writer of the Classes, Who only takes Credit When others tackle Creation.

He's a mage who lives by the seaside, you see.

[Temotei]

Does game design count as arts and crafts?

Because if so, I have a significantly dumb idea.

Go for it.

[Jormengand]

Writing of that calibre wrecks... my head, so I'm going to write all the class features in plain text once I've recovered.

Why is it that relatively simple tasks require so much effort? Whai?

[Mangles]

Finished some alternative class features, now just need to finish actual class features.

[bekeleven]

2k words into my class. I've been slacking!

Still hopeful I should finish by the deadline. By my estimates I've completed almost 20% of the class.

[Knitifine]

The Antiquarian has been uploaded.
I've never submitted a class to a contest and it's been a while since I stepped backwards into 3.5e, so let me know if anything seems out of place.

This is just a rough draft, so an issue I'm aware of is that wording isn't all consistent and normalized.
I am also aware that save DC are not consistent and normalized.
I am also aware that artifacts currently work in a strange way that makes them a lot less useful when non-antiquarians are using them, contrary to the stated option of having the antiquarian be an item supplier who stays away from combat. This is on the 'to fix' list.

[dsollen]

Do you take suggestions for contest topics? I would personally be interested in seeing a contest focused on what tv-tropes would call Reluctant Warrior (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReluctantWarrior), or possibly a Technical Pacifists. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TechnicalPacifist) Any character that dislikes harming others but still fits into a 3.5 world where combat is part of the game (and doesn't make the Gm build the game entirely around them the way an apostle of peace or broken diplomancer build can).

I think the concept could allow lots of interesting mechanics and lore for explaining why one that hates combat has developed and uses his combat skills. The easiest idea being a pure healer with no damage abilities, but I'd love to see the more interesting ideas, a monk variant sworn to never take a life who can only deal nonlethal damage, an initiator with a new set of maneuvers focused on protecting allies (or even enemies) from harm instead of dealing damage. A Reluctant Warrior who may only fight to protect others and who builds up points of Remorse every time he harms an enemy which weakens his attacks until he resolves his remorse by healing or aiding another. A Diplomat-warrior, with buffs to diplomacy and ability to make rush diplomacy checks in combat, but combined with fighting skills which activate only on those who refuse to be reasoned with to knock sense into them. A pacifist healer who was infected by some curse or inflection which drives them crazy with bloodlust, who switches between supportive magic backliner and raging melee killer as he loses control of his curse as the encounter progresses.

Anyways, I'd love to see it as a contest theme at some point, if you ever get around to it :)

[Jormengand]

So, I finished the Wizard of the Coast...

What do we think? :smalltongue:

[Knitifine]

Class Update
I have added another artifact to the antiquarian's class list which was missing from the initial release. I've normalized save DCs, and I've added feats.
The final update, clarifying the language of the class, artifacts and feats as well as doing any last minute revisions will be available soon.


Responses


So, I finished the Wizard of the Coast...

What do we think? :smalltongue:

The class is very funny, and seems well put together.

[bekeleven]

Oh boy. In the past 2 days the scope on my class increased significantly. Hoping I can get it done by the deadline.


-Introduction (1/4)
-Class fluff (0)
-Class features (1/2)
-Paintings (concepts) (1)
-Paintings (Writeups) (4/5)
-Items, Feats (1/2)
-Adaptations/In world (1/4)
-Balance pass (0)
-Editing Pass (0)
-Media Collection (0)
-Formatting pass (0)
In the past two days, more than one of these numbers moved backwards.

[Eno Remnant]

The long overdue fluff for the Transcendent has arrived. My unfortunate habit of not working on a project until a day or two prior to the deadline hit full force on this one. Hopefully, it's not as terrible as it should be, for the result of a late night's writing.

And with that, the class is complete.

[ElFi]

I've decided to drop out of the contest- I just couldn't work up the inspiration to finish the class, so it'll probably stay unfinished for a while. Thanks for the opportunity in any case.

[bekeleven]

The photorealist didn't end up matching up to my original image, but I think I got it to a pretty good place. I didn't miss anything super glaring, did I?

[Mangles]

Done, I think

[Knitifine]

I was thinking of doing a small final update, but seeing some of the last minute submissions I feel like I should polish Antiquarian into like... 80 Artifacts, 20 Feat masterpiece on the last day.
Ugh, something to think about for tomorrow I suppose. Good luck to everyone. @_@

[Knitifine]

Aside from that, anything goes--psionics, martial maneuvers, spellcasting, whatever. Go crazy; new mechanics, new feats, new items, and everything else you can think of are fair game!


Does this include PrC support or would that be against the spirit of the contest?

[inuyasha]

Just browsing the forums a bit and it's crazy to think that I participated in contest #17. Wow, that was a long time ago.

I've really got to participate in a future one. Need to start flexing my homebrew muscles again.

[Jormengand]

Does this include PrC support or would that be against the spirit of the contest?

The inventor had PrCs and a variant class as part of its entry and it won, so I assume it's not against the spirit.

[Almarck]

I'm not making it this time. Way too much on my plane this past month.

I scrapped my original idea and tried to make a class about utilizing a gigantic hand cannon for everything. Would have tried to make ammo and cannon customization its abilities, but it got way too complicated real fast.




So, contest is likely over. what new themes does everyone want?

[Knitifine]

I would love to see one of the old magic systems revisited. (I'm sure that's been done before).

Invocations, Magic of Incarnum, Anything from the Tome of Magic or Tome of Battle, etc.

[Almarck]

Tome of Battle is too popular. It's done to death.


Still....


Hm, for a theme, what about oceans? Sea? Things involving water or would be very useful in a naval or sea based campaign. We can call it "Job for Aquaman"

[khadgar567]

Tome of Battle is too popular. It's done to death.


Still....


Hm, for a theme, what about oceans? Sea? Things involving water or would be very useful in a naval or sea based campaign. We can call it "Job for Aquaman"
my vote on tome of magic I already have a class ready to submit.

[Knitifine]

Alright. Done.

The last version of the Antiquarian is done. I've been uploading all day. Let me try and catalogue the changes.

Flavor: Races and Religion sections update.
Antique Restoration: Better explained how others using antiquarian artifacts works, and how the antiquarian can 'change' their selection of artifacts (encounter replacements it still up to DM fiat).
Artifacts: All artifacts have had their descriptions separated from their base power in order read better and interact with the rules better. Some artifacts, particularly those that granted spells or had interaction with spells were given new abilities or renamed.
Feats: Several new feats added, language clarified. Enjoy!
Racial Substitution Levels: Two plane touched races got a little boost to their Antiquarian dreams.
Alternate Class Features: Wanna hit people with a thousand year old staff more and worry about traps less? This section was made for you.

I hope everyone enjoyed this class. It was tough to make but an absolute delight.
Good luck to my competitors and thanks for holding the competition!

[Lanth Sor]

Super sad I had my final inspiration 24 hour prior to end.

[Temotei]

We're going to try something a bit different this time. Voting will work in the same manner--everyone in the contest must vote to qualify, and each voter makes three votes. First place vote receives three points, second place vote receives two points, and the third place vote receives one point. This time, though, voters will PM me a message with their votes. At the end, after totaling up all the points, I'll post the point results in this thread on August 7th at 23:59 Central Standard Time (GMT -5:00).

Feel free to discuss classes as much as desired in this thread, as usual, even if you think that might give away information about how you voted. I don't want discussion to be stunted because of this.

For voting convenience, here's a table of the contestants' entries:



Base Class
Author


Transcendent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22092200&postcount=4)
Eno Remnant


Knitted Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22099786&postcount=5)
Mangles


Wizard of the Coast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22121772&postcount=8)
Jormengand


Antiquarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22148780&postcount=9) (Artifacts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22148783&postcount=10), Options (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22148791&postcount=11))
Knitifine


Artist Macabre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22203332&postcount=12)
Lanth Sor


Photorealist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22221939&postcount=13) (Paintings (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22221947&postcount=14), Other (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22221957&postcount=15))
bekeleven

[Knitifine]

Very cool. I like this kind of voting system. May I request that the "Others" on Antiquarian's list be labeled "Options"?
Also what is the voting deadline?

[Temotei]

Very cool. I like this kind of voting system. May I request that the "Others" on Antiquarian's list be labeled "Options"?
Also what is the voting deadline?

Changed.

Oh, right. I'll edit the date into that last post.

[Mangles]

I'm glad you gave us plenty of time to read the other entries.

[bekeleven]

Photorealist's first link is to "Paintings." The other one is admittedly a grab-bag, but I was running into character limits with 2 and figured there was no need for me to make separate posts a couple paragraphs long for a bunch of different categories.

I've read through the shorter classes and made a few preliminary notes on them. I'll finish up the rest and then hopefully go for a second pass and compare them.

[daremetoidareyo]

I was writing a grant and missed my opportunity to unleash my Flawa'a Rainja Ikebana specialist on you, because i couldn't finish it until after the grant deadline.

Class is built around building a flower altar to produce a localized specialized effect. Just needed an extra week...

[Temotei]

I was writing a grant and missed my opportunity to unleash my Flawa'a Rainja Ikebana specialist on you, because i couldn't finish it until after the grant deadline.

Class is built around building a flower altar to produce a localized specialized effect. Just needed an extra week...

Dang. If you had posted asking for another week, I would have freely given it.

[Knitifine]

Dang. If you had posted asking for another week, I would have freely given it.
Potential solution: The next contest could be plant themed.

[Almarck]

I still want to have a water or aquatic theme "Job of Aquaman" style.

[Lanth Sor]

How about contest in green, All things nature

[bekeleven]

I'm trying to figure out the antiquarian. Half the feats don't work if you have the Antique Restoration class feature, which is not optional, and is not traded away by any of the racial sub levels. How do I get these feats?

I'm sure I'm missing something really obvious.

[Knitifine]

I'm trying to figure out the antiquarian. Half the feats don't work if you have the Antique Restoration class feature, which is not optional, and is not traded away by any of the racial sub levels. How do I get these feats?

I'm sure I'm missing something really obvious.
Correction: 3 of the 13 feats (Less than a quarter) do not work if you have Antique Restoration.
Clarification: This is because those three feats are not meant for Antiquarians, they're meant for players who want to dip their toe into the Antiquarian's mechanics. You can find feats like these in most alternative magic systems. Essentially, they're included because they play off the Antiquarian's mechanics and show those mechanics have value and application outside of it's base class.

P.S. Sorry if I sound like a weird robot for posting it that way. I couldn't think of how to reformat it.

[daremetoidareyo]

Dang. If you had posted asking for another week, I would have freely given it.

Awww. Thanks.

It seemed selfish to request when there was as much material as was there already. I didn't want to be that guy.

[Temotei]

Awww. Thanks.

It seemed selfish to request when there was as much material as was there already. I didn't want to be that guy.

Nah, it's been done plenty of times before and nobody thinks those people are being selfish (or at least, I hope not). We always welcome more entries.

[Jormengand]

I don't want discussion to be stunted because of this.

That's unfortunate, given the apparent circumstances.

[Knitifine]

Base Class
Author


Transcendent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22092200&postcount=4)
Eno Remnant


Knitted Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22099786&postcount=5)
Mangles


Wizard of the Coast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22121772&postcount=8)
Jormengand


Antiquarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22148780&postcount=9) (Artifacts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22148783&postcount=10), Options (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22148791&postcount=11))
Knitifine


Artist Macabre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22203332&postcount=12)
Lanth Sor


Photorealist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22221939&postcount=13) (Paintings (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22221947&postcount=14), Other (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22221957&postcount=15))
bekeleven


Checking out some of these classes. Gonna do a deep dive into them later.

Transcendent: I like the flavor of the transcendent, but I loathe dead levels. The first two I can get over, but the third one is killing me because it comes at a level where you really don't get anything else.
Additionally, I think you could have just made a spell-list for this class, or let them use druid spells without the level increase since druid spells are... kind of weak to be honest.

Knitted Knight: Would have liked to see more cold resistance and fire vulnerability interactions in this class (especially with the familiar). I really like the concept, just wish it had more followers and perhaps a custom living construct race associated with it. I feel like there's a lot of potential in this idea. I like the alternate class features, though I would have specified that the hook does piercing and/or bludgeoning damage, since slashing doesn't seem appropriate for a crochet hook.

Wizard of the Coast: this is a fun unglued style class that I really enjoy... but since it's too wacky and rule bending to actually play in a game, which kills it for me.

Antiquarian: I think it'd be in poor taste for me to review my own class.

Artist Macabre: This is a neat little class. It's a little too unfocused for my tastes, the BAB seems too low and the way Dance of Blood works seems... overly complex.

Photorealist: This class is super cool, and I really like it. The only gripe I have is that it's a bit... style over substance. I would like to see more than one option of each level per style, and I feel like part of why that wasn't included was because of all the artwork which went into making this class pop.

[bekeleven]

I wrote up some notes, but (like my notes always are) they're critical of everything so I feel like it's not wise for me to post them.

[Mangles]

I'd rather get critical notes than none. I had a long break between homebrewing and I know I'm rusty. Only way to improve is with constructive criticism. If you feel bad posting em here you can PM m

[Knitifine]

I'd rather get critical notes than none. I had a long break between homebrewing and I know I'm rusty. Only way to improve is with constructive criticism. If you feel bad posting em here you can PM m

I feel the same as Mangles expressed here.

[Eno Remnant]

Transcendent: I like the flavor of the transcendent, but I loathe dead levels. The first two I can get over, but the third one is killing me because it comes at a level where you really don't get anything else.
Additionally, I think you could have just made a spell-list for this class, or let them use druid spells without the level increase since druid spells are... kind of weak to be honest.

As it happens, originally all of the dead levels coincided with a new spell level. But as more class features were added, and I considered what was appropriate at what level, things got switched around a bit. I hate dead levels too, but I figure a class that ended up being Bard+, minus the Inspire Courage, should probably take its lumps.

Were I to put further work into the class, I'd probably take some of those higher level class features down a couple of levels, add some features more worthy of the original levels, and have it all set up so that your dead levels were spell level increases.

As for the spell list, I had originally started on one working from Core and Spell Compendium. About halfway through the 1st level spells, I thought to myself "This is almost exactly the Bard and Ranger lists, with a bit of Druid thrown in." So I decided it was just easier to work with pre-established list than to pore through pages of the Site-That-must-Not-Be-Named to devise my own list.

I actually hadn't realised Druid spells were weak. I made an assumption about their power level due to their being a Tier 1 class. Though since the Transcendent only hits 6th level spells, I suppose it wouldn't have had much chance to get out of hand. I guess if I were to do it again, I'd just drop the Ranger spell list and have Druid spells at the same level as Druid gets them.



As for discussion on everyone else's classes, I had been meaning to offer my two coppers. When I was deciding on where to put my vote, I actually devised a rating system like the one used in the Villainous Competition, to help inform my decision. I won't share what each rating was, since I was being particularly harsh in the spirit of assuring a well-considered result. However, I will share how I judged, since it might help you grasp my thought process when I get around to sharing my thoughts (and I fully intend to).

I created six categories, with a rating of 1 to 5, to a potential total of 30: Theme (for how well the concept and the class features conformed to the theme), Effort (both in the amount of detail and the amount of content), Polish (which ranged from spelling, to aesthetic appearance, to how easy a class feature was to read and understand), Balance (which hardly bares explanation), Fun (as a matter of opinion, of course. This one and Theme were really the most important factors), and Versatility (with the Bard as the benchmark at around 3-4).

For the sake of a baseline, I actually judged my own class, and it came out at 21/30, and I allowed for two or three points above or below that - to account for personal bias or excessive critique. At the very least, it goes to show that I wasn't blinded by love for my own creation :smalltongue:

When I find the time, I'll let you guys know what I thought of your classes. I can certainly say, for the time being, that they were all great concepts.

[Temotei]

I actually hadn't realised Druid spells were weak. I made an assumption about their power level due to their being a Tier 1 class. Though since the Transcendent only hits 6th level spells, I suppose it wouldn't have had much chance to get out of hand. I guess if I were to do it again, I'd just drop the Ranger spell list and have Druid spells at the same level as Druid gets them.

I don't think druid spells are weak at all. They're not on par with the Sor/Wiz lists and maybe a cleric who chooses strong domains, but it's not like that makes them weak. They're still casting entangle, impeding stones, wall of smoke, blinding spittle, kelpstrand, luminous armor, snake's swiftness, mass, and plenty of other spells, and the ones listed are only 1st- and 2nd-level spells.

[Knitifine]

I don't think druid spells are weak at all. They're not on par with the Sor/Wiz lists and maybe a cleric who chooses strong domains, but it's not like that makes them weak. They're still casting entangle, impeding stones, wall of smoke, blinding spittle, kelpstrand, luminous armor, snake's swiftness, mass, and plenty of other spells, and the ones listed are only 1st- and 2nd-level spells.Perhaps I phrased it wrong. I don't think druid spells are weak, but I don't think they're so strong that they need a level bump to fit into a 1/2 or 3/4th caster's spell list.

[Temotei]

New contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?531764-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXI-It-s-in-Our-Nature)!

[Knitifine]

New contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?531764-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXI-It-s-in-Our-Nature)!Wait, new contest before the old contest results come out?

[Temotei]

Wait, new contest before the old contest results come out?

Yup. Been doing that for a couple contests now. I actually messed up on the due date for this contest, though. I'm supposed to pretend like I'm posting the thread for the contest at the end of the voting period so people won't get penalized for having to take time to vote. I'll fix it.

[Morphic tide]

Nature themed? Well, there's plenty of design space with classes focused on pieces of Druid or Spirit Shaman, as well as fixing Ranger or Spirit Shaman. Totem Barbarian as a base class unto itself also works.

As an example, one of the weirder ideas I've had for a while is a class that shifts HD between multiple creatures. In the context of making classes based on parts of Druid, it'd be making a class that has a limited pool of bonus HD to distribute between itself and it's animal companion(s), with Wildshape being limited by how many HD are on the character. These HD would carry statistics similar to the Animal Companion progression, only being described as per-HD and as BAB instead of Strength. So stacking enough of these HD onto oneself would legitimately give added iteratives, with a catch of that being a needed thing for the class's effective chassis to work in melee at all, while having it's other abilities be about flanking and making ranged stuff work at half-BAB in a way that allows it to work with full-BAB melee while not being OP. Possibly by having it have a sweet spot of two or three range increments that it goes down for being closer or farther than, which makes crossbows a bad pick for normal combat because being more than 100 ft. away is rare in regular combat. Also makes thrown weapons work for melee-focused builds by making them worth spending an action on while getting into Charge range, which makes me think switch-hitter would be a good "optimized" role. Swift-action Thrown or Ranged attack?

Another idea is a class devoted to the nasty side of nature. Bundles of toxins and diseases. With the Alignment restriction, if present, being Any Non-Chaotic, divorcing it from Evil by being very much about how horrible things exist in nature and how things are supposed to die and stay dead. This means pairing diseases and poisons with anti-Undead abilities in a way that actually works and makes sense. Possibly through Acid damage being an option among the poison options, which doesn't lack precedent in nature. Spiders actually perform digestion externally by injecting digestive fluids into captured prey, then sucking out the digested slush from the corpse. One could have bonus damage vs. particular "unnatural" creature types be a set of options. Undead, Constructs and Outsiders, perhaps. Maybe Fey if you want to be absolute about it, but D&D Fey are more "Supra"natural than supernatural. Above it, rather than outside it. Elementals are in a similar, more absolute and obvious, position of being part of nature, but past "normal" nature. Like, Fey and Elementals are extraordinary nature, not supernatural, despite their typical ability type being Supernatural and Spell-Like. Supernatural as in better-than-normal nature, rather than beyond-what-is-natural... :smallconfused:

As for ideas for Totem Barbarian as a solo-class themed on nature, it can be built around Totem Druid being turned into a Gish-in-a-can by merging with Totem Barbarian. Wildshape and Animal Companion restricted to Totem Animal, Rage coming with Totem Animal traits, probably Bard casting off of Druid's list, perhaps with Spirit Shaman's Spells Known mechanism, stuff with trading spell slots for buffs, maybe getting per-spell-level spontaneous healing that lets them have a decent ability to tank without needing to deal with specific Cure spells.

I suppose I'll work on something that can be all three of these ideas at once. With the basic table set up first while I decide how, exactly, I'm going to make this all work as one class. Maybe I'll have the second idea as a variant with different Totem picks and the primary class being deeply focused on flanking switch-hitter stuff.

[bekeleven]

To start with, I liked both classes. Don't think that I didn't!

I just sort of start reading things with the assumption that I'll like them and point out things that I don't like, instead of the other way around.

Sorry if this sounds critical.


I'd rather get critical notes than none. I had a long break between homebrewing and I know I'm rusty. Only way to improve is with constructive criticism. If you feel bad posting em here you can PM m
Knitted Knight

Finally, somebody else makes a class entirely out of puns!
The weapons that this class summons aren't very good (even with the meager buffs), meaning that the player needs to throw feats and/or other resources at them to make them function. This is a bad sign for a melee class, since they tend to have power level issues on a multitude of axes.
In fact, a lot of the class features are underwhelming. To its credit, it has no dead levels, which can partially explain that.
The largest exception is magical knit. As written, you don't use XP to craft, you don't need to know any spells, and you can use Ur-Priest casting progression to determine spell access. Magical Knit is an artificer on steroids.
A few technical issues. No skills or skill points. Unclear action types on some abilities. Class features referring to missing stat blocks. Woolen Homonculus is either referring to a missing class feature with “the Magical Weave ability” or it’s both misnaming an existing ability and misapplying it, since no class feature would work there.
This class basically does three things: It hits folk with needles, it makes items out of wool, and it makes dudes out of wool. It seems from the flavor and such that the first was the primary thrust, with the other two perhaps added when scrambling for content. I can't claim to know authorial intent, but the class feels unfocused.
To sum up: This class isn't very powerful (besides its crafting) and isn't very cohesive. I could see it played, but not in a 4-man group. Maybe in a 5-man where the standard bases are covered, or a 3-man where your frontliner needs some extra utility.


I feel the same as Mangles expressed here.
The Antiquarian

Flavor is basically dungeon delver.
Functions mostly as a skill monkey. Has some "customizability" in terms of the artifacts it bonds, but since those can't be crafted or even bought, that's more customizability on the part of the DM than the player. Customizable classes are my jam, but this one makes me nervous. Gets full ranks in a skill with no apparent use.
In order to hit a reasonable power level, it feels like the class needs to use ancient powers on a very specific subset of artifacts.
There's more ambiguity in the class than I'd like. How long does artifact 1’s temp HP last? (we’ll be generous and assume it doesn’t stack) Can I create multiple undead with Artifact 2? What’s the reflex save DC of artifact 3 based on? (it sets a DC “from 20” to 15, meaning it’s talking about the strength check... neither the artifact nor class description give a default ability for saves) How do I “reflect” an existing casting of, say, Antipathy onto its caster? Etc.
The class design of the Antiquarian just feels... dated. It leans heavily on trapfinding, that being one of the two ways to fill its daily-emptying power bucket, despite trapfinding getting less and less emphasis across 3.5's lifetime as the designers realized it was a legacy mechanic and not particularly fun for the other 3 members of the party. Meanwhile, the class doesn't technically have dead levels (gaining a class feature or artifact at every level), but that assumes that you have enough artifacts to bond things and that you consider "Trap sense +1" to be a class feature. I hope you do: It's your class capstone!
All in all, this class feels like the rogue squared. The rogue's strengths (Skill monkeying, non-spell utility, UMD) are magnified while its weaknesses (Gear dependence, relying on the DM's level design/loot drops to contribute) are as well. This class literally gets weaker when the DM is nicer.
To draw a parallel to some classes I've made: The first draft of the Photorealist required paints, but I stripped them. The Servant Soul, based on a manga where people evoke spirits through "class cards," abstracted the items out entirely despite people acquiring and stealing them literally being the focus of the first two volumes. The most DM-dependent class I've ever published is probably the Coalescant, weirdly enough, and the coalescant contains a 500-word essay on how the DM should and shouldn't oversee the process of unlocking its class features, repeatedly making the point that DMs and players can drop the minigame if they like, and if they don't, it should be doable and not particularly challenging. After all, these are class features. You didn't take levels in warrior. I wish the Antiquarian contained similar language.

[Knitifine]

The Antiquarian
Flavor is basically dungeon delver.
I think of them more like an art history major who sold their soul to an elder god for the perfect dig, but fair enough.

Functions mostly as a skill monkey. Has some "customizability" in terms of the artifacts it bonds, but since those can't be crafted or even bought, that's more customizability on the part of the DM than the player. Customizable classes are my jam, but this one makes me nervous. Gets full ranks in a skill with no apparent use.
The skill is for the flavor, I mention later that I'm not really getting this dystopian DM idea (first off, I can't think of a DM that allows homebrew classes, but also demands to pick their players wizard spells each level...)

In order to hit a reasonable power level, it feels like the class needs to use ancient powers on a very specific subset of artifacts.
There's more ambiguity in the class than I'd like. How long does artifact 1’s temp HP last? (we’ll be generous and assume it doesn’t stack).
Till the end of the encounter, an oversight.

Can I create multiple undead with Artifact 2?
No, it specifically says you can't.

If a new undead is animated with the grimorie while an older creation still exists, the older creation’s alignment changes to neutral evil and it seeks out nearby living creatures to kill until it is destroyed.

What’s the reflex save DC of artifact 3 based on? (it sets a DC “from 20” to 15, meaning it’s talking about the strength check... neither the artifact nor class description give a default ability for saves).
All spells, spell-like and supernatural abilities granted to the antiquarian are based on Intelligence.

How do I “reflect” an existing casting of, say, Antipathy onto its caster? Etc.
As spell turning.

The class design of the Antiquarian just feels... dated. It leans heavily on trapfinding, that being one of the two ways to fill its daily-emptying power bucket, despite trapfinding getting less and less emphasis across 3.5's lifetime as the designers realized it was a legacy mechanic and not particularly fun for the other 3 members of the party. Meanwhile, the class doesn't technically have dead levels (gaining a class feature or artifact at every level), but that assumes that you have enough artifacts to bond things and that you consider "Trap sense +1" to be a class feature. I hope you do: It's your class capstone!
3.5e base classes don't universally (or even often) have capstones, most the reason this class lacks features it to keep it from benefiting from any of pathfinder's improvements. If one does not have a trap-heavy adventure they can always take the Scholarly Combatant ACF.

All in all, this class feels like the rogue squared. The rogue's strengths (Skill monkeying, non-spell utility, UMD) are magnified while its weaknesses (Gear dependence, relying on the DM's level design/loot drops to contribute) are as well. This class literally gets weaker when the DM is nicer.
I don't see how the class is particularly tied to gear dependence at all. The class does get weaker the 'nicer' the DM gets to full casters (less encounters per day), but that's the entire point of the essence mechanic. It starts small and builds up over time.

I wish the Antiquarian contained similar language.
I really have no idea what you're getting at here I'm afraid. The only possible way to take the class more out of the DM's hands would be to give each artifact a default crafting price, like spells for wizards, but then you immediately have the issue of a mid level antiquarian crafting all the artifacts, negating the meaning of choice for the artifacts they gain by leveling up.

[bekeleven]

I don't see how the class is particularly tied to gear dependence at all. The class does get weaker the 'nicer' the DM gets to full casters (less encounters per day), but that's the entire point of the essence mechanic. It starts small and builds up over time.It has two things that it does better than, say, a warrior: One is UMD and the other is artifacts. Both of these things are literally gear.


I really have no idea what you're getting at here I'm afraid. The only possible way to take the class more out of the DM's hands would be to give each artifact a default crafting price, like spells for wizards, but then you immediately have the issue of a mid level antiquarian crafting all the artifacts, negating the meaning of choice for the artifacts they gain by leveling up.Well, they can only have artifacts restored equal to the number in the column. If they could craft items, then instead of having a class with class features consisting of what the DM places in the drop tables, they could take a few weeks off and build the item they needed.

What do you mean "choice for the artifacts they gain by leveling up?"

[Knitifine]

It has two things that it does better than, say, a warrior: One is UMD and the other is artifacts. Both of these things are literally gear.In the same way soulmelds are gear, yes.

Well, they can only have artifacts restored equal to the number in the column. If they could craft items, then instead of having a class with class features consisting of what the DM places in the drop tables, they could take a few weeks off and build the item they needed.

What do you mean "choice for the artifacts they gain by leveling up?"I think I see where you're getting tripped up, and it has to do with both me and the people I ran my class by understanding the Antique Restoration feature through explanation and glancing rather than reading it intently enough to catch an omission. (The line in that first draft that originally told you how many artifacts you gain, now tells you have many you can have restored at one time, and I never added another line saying 'also you gain this number as the minimum, because I kept just understanding that at reading off the table.)

This is how you seem to be interpreting it: You can somehow acquire artifacts and have a number listed under the Artifacts Restored entry restored at one point.

This is how it's intended, and how me and my editors interpreted it: You start three artifacts, and gain an additional artifact every time your Artifacts Restored goes up. Your DM may give you additional artifacts beyond this or device a system for giving out additional artifacts, in order to use these additional artifacts you have to swap them out.

It didn't really occur to me that you could read it that way you're reading it. Sorry for the confusion.

[Lanth Sor]

Artist Macabre: This is a neat little class. It's a little too unfocused for my tastes, the BAB seems too low and the way Dance of Blood works seems... overly complicated.

The bab was accidentally not switched back to 20 at 20 over looked in final publish. Yeah there are a lot of things that didn't t get in as i finally got my idea on last day of contest so cohesion and polish are missing. I intended to be al ot more flavor things based on what they use bodies for, and other ways to incorporate art into combat.
Please excuse bad spelling as on a phone and its not cooperating.

[ahyangyi]

Can I refer to or copy a pathfinder mechanism(say, bloodrager bloodlines) to my base class?

[Morphic tide]

Can I refer to or copy a pathfinder mechanism(say, bloodrager bloodlines) to my base class?

Duplication of D&D-external mechanics is perfectly fine, as is referring to easily-findable external mechanics. I think the standard is that if it isn't D&D first party, then it should be explained as far as needed for function just going off of first party rules and rules spelled out in the mechanics of the class.

Basically, copy it in full if you are using it, rather than refer to the Pathfinder mechanic. If it's stuff like Akasha, which is a 3rd party port of D&D mechanics, Incarnum in this case, to Pathfinder, translate to the actual D&D version if you can find it or spell it out, listing divergences from D&D mechanics that you can find.

[Lanth Sor]

1st= Antiquarian- Though I wish there were more options and the Artifacts referencing the antiquarian's True Strike spell-like ability had me searching high and low. I did finally identify it was not the class but the race that provided the spell-like. As stated in an earlier post, you may want to add the note that the items in the listed collumn are gained regardless of items found in actual game. Essence seems too difficult to aquire if your not in a combat heavy game or trap heavy one. Might I suggest gaining essence when rolling a natural 20 or similar rare case that still provides a more "reliable" source of essence.

2nd= Photorealist- By far the best put together art type in terms of casting mechanics, but I like the class as a whole little bit less than the Antiquarian. I loved the use of different real paintings to define the fantastic paintings the class would be making. I have a major issue with classes that use all 6 attributes for magic it seems senseless. There is some cases where a case can be made but this falls short. Of the catagories you povided the only ones that seemed truely out of place was danse macabre and interactive art, I have a hard time coralting str with painting, or constitution, Strength makes plenty of sense as a sculpter, and constituation could fit for something that requires endurance to complete like a difficult task that must be complete in 10 hour period but most painters would be tired or worse after 9.

3rd= Knitted Knight- This one is just fun. There are several holes, but I assume they are an oversight as that seems to have been the case based on thread chat, IE not mentioning the XP cost, I play PF rules so there is none kind of game breaky in 3.5.

4th= Wizard of the Coast- Sorry jor I love the idea and might be playing it with Nikkoli if he oks it. All-in-all great class did some of the things I tried doing with the Bellithor only better. Hats off as always. In the end neigh unuseable unless you have an awsome DM, Bellithor has same issue.

5th= Transendant- Honestly cool ideas but it felt too middle of the road, I couldn't tell if it was a painter a tree hugger or a hermit that knows a thing or two about staffs. Good work on abilites but folding half the abilites into photorealist as "paintings" would make alot of sense to me. You do set it up with bard casting which I am always happy to see Spontaneous casters. Sorry if it seems harsh, but you do have some really fun and interesting things.

6th= Artist Macabre- Fun, but haphazard. There are several gaping holes where cohesion is missing, and art is at best loosely tied to the class. The art parts could be completely ignored and the class would almost loose nothing. It is a slightly better fighter that cants use heavy armor. However does get death attack based on charisma and 1/2 level, even this can be overcome rather easily. Dance of Blood needs serious rewording to make a coheseve idea, "if multiple attacks miss adding 1 die per attack that missed." what is the intention here, there seems to be an entire section missing. With more work this could be a good class, but at this stage its at best a rough draft.

[Knitifine]

1st= Antiquarian- Though I wish there were more options and the Artifacts referencing the antiquarian's True Strike spell-like ability had me searching high and low. I did finally identify it was not the class but the race that provided the spell-like. As stated in an earlier post, you may want to add the note that the items in the listed collumn are gained regardless of items found in actual game. Essence seems too difficult to aquire if your not in a combat heavy game or trap heavy one. Might I suggest gaining essence when rolling a natural 20 or similar rare case that still provides a more "reliable" source of essence. Yeah, absolutely will when I publish it. But my understanding is that editing entries at this point is off limits, even if just for clarification and mistakes.

I'm not sure I agree essence is too difficult to acquire. At level 20 a base antiquarian starts the day with 4, and gets at least 1 per encounter. So 7 on average....
Actually, yeah, you're right. An antiquarian should get a guaranteed 10 essence at level 20 on the third encounter. Should have crunched the numbers a bit harder on that one.

[Eno Remnant]

5th= Transendant- Honestly cool ideas but it felt too middle of the road, I couldn't tell if it was a painter a tree hugger or a hermit that knows a thing or two about staffs. Good work on abilites but folding half the abilites into photorealist as "paintings" would make alot of sense to me. You do set it up with bard casting which I am always happy to see Spontaneous casters. Sorry if it seems harsh, but you do have some really fun and interesting things.

Spontaneous casters represent!

As to your comments on where the theme of the class goes, it's not really meant to be straightforward. A Transcendent is someone who was so enamoured with nature, that they tried to preserve it forever in art. Nature kind of went "Aw, that's sweet. Here, have some nature magic." So the Transcendent is a painter who likes to go around painting nature, and fighting bad guys. So the fluff and the abilities follow this affinity for art and nature, and a magical force that enhances both of these affinities.

As for the bit about the Photorealist, well, I can hardly have measured my own work by its metric, when it came later.

[Mangles]

Wrote some comments down as I was reading these. The comments are on the RAW my vote will go as RAI.

Transcendent
Landscape Forge: Enhance Should probably have a maximum enchantment level so that you can't get +6 weapons.
Silent Poetry: Is this a fluff ability? I don't see any mechanical advantage unless you bard multiclass, but maybe i'm missing something. I don't consider a fluff only ability a bad thing at all, just wondering if i'm missing something here.
Speed Paint: Is armour meant to scale as well as weapons. As written armour goes from miute to full round to free. Why not standard action at 16th?
Exploding with Life: You really want to be as small as possible fore this ability. If you can get tiny than even flowers and grass will animate. Enlarge person cast on a Trancendent enemy as your attack of oppurtunity against this would be a great strategy.

Wizard of the Coast
Intro is confusing.
The abilities are written to go into Epic levels, which seems odd.

The Antiquarian
Essence of Discovery: You start each day much weaker than you end, unlike other classes. Your better off not resting, and if you need to have your party members set up a bunch of rabbit traps for you to disarm.
Antique Restoration: Does this force the DM to give out antiques?
Antiquarian Artifacts: Actually the class features, have to hope your DM gives you the ones you want.

The Artist Macabre
Unearthly Nerve and Unearthly Fortitude: These read as if they were written in the other order and then swapped.

Photorealist
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shouldnt have an adendem explaining the proficiencies are bad.
Painting: very complicated casting
Passion Project and Expert: I have never made a check to earn a living.

[Jormengand]

Intro is confusing.

Well, okay. The catch, when one tries creating, with only the... y'know, I'm not gonna try that any more.


The abilities are written to go into Epic levels, which seems odd.

Odd, but deliberate. I don't like it when classes are written to just... stop at 20th, and have no epic progression or expectation for one.

[Mangles]

Knitted Knight

Finally, somebody else makes a class entirely out of puns!
The weapons that this class summons aren't very good (even with the meager buffs), meaning that the player needs to throw feats and/or other resources at them to make them function. This is a bad sign for a melee class, since they tend to have power level issues on a multitude of axes.
In fact, a lot of the class features are underwhelming. To its credit, it has no dead levels, which can partially explain that.
The largest exception is magical knit. As written, you don't use XP to craft, you don't need to know any spells, and you can use Ur-Priest casting progression to determine spell access. Magical Knit is an artificer on steroids.
A few technical issues. No skills or skill points. Unclear action types on some abilities. Class features referring to missing stat blocks. Woolen Homonculus is either referring to a missing class feature with “the Magical Weave ability” or it’s both misnaming an existing ability and misapplying it, since no class feature would work there.
This class basically does three things: It hits folk with needles, it makes items out of wool, and it makes dudes out of wool. It seems from the flavor and such that the first was the primary thrust, with the other two perhaps added when scrambling for content. I can't claim to know authorial intent, but the class feels unfocused.
To sum up: This class isn't very powerful (besides its crafting) and isn't very cohesive. I could see it played, but not in a 4-man group. Maybe in a 5-man where the standard bases are covered, or a 3-man where your frontliner needs some extra utility.



I clearly need to work on the little details more.
I was hoping the feats provided by the Needle Combat tree would be enough to make it viable in melee, and here i was thinking i should give it 3/4 bab to lower the power. Clearly needed to go the other way.
Magical knit was intended to let this guy be the party crafter with the downside being that people could easily identify the items. I totally forgot xp costs were a thing but a simple change to the last sentence should fix that. I don't mind that they can choose the spell casting unless ur priest gets to cast the spells earlier than a wizard, cleric or druid. Maybe there is a better way to word this.
Woolen Homunculus was meant to refer to the Magical Knit ability. Attention to detail once again. Its meant to allow an enchantment bonus so they don't get unraveled so easily. Might need an xp discount for magical knit on this one.
I think a larger focus as a commander of woolen creatures would have been a better thrust for the class, rather than a melee combatant who self arms and has a small following. The weapons and armour were the core of the class and the minions and magic added in after.
Live and learn. I may try to republish a better version after the comp.

Thanks for all the comments. It really helps.



3rd= Knitted Knight- This one is just fun. There are several holes, but I assume they are an oversight as that seems to have been the case based on thread chat, IE not mentioning the XP cost, I play PF rules so there is none kind of game breaky in 3.5.


I'm glad it's fun. Also part of the aim of most of my homebrew. Lots of holes that I need to remember to fix next time.

[Eno Remnant]

Landscape Forge: Enhance Should probably have a maximum enchantment level so that you can't get +6 weapons.

Nope. This was made with the absolute intention of being able to hit +6 weapons. It's a +1 to attack and damage, and you can overcome the DR on some of the epic monsters. It's hardly game-breaking.

That said, this class was originally built for a friend to play in a game that's power level was on the high side, so I had no compunctions against the potential consequences of +6 weaponry.


Silent Poetry: Is this a fluff ability? I don't see any mechanical advantage unless you bard multiclass, but maybe i'm missing something. I don't consider a fluff only ability a bad thing at all, just wondering if i'm missing something here.

It's kind of a fluff ability. It gives you the option to make some money in your downtime, if you don't have the time to sell paintings. So it's a bit of a utility option.


Speed Paint: Is armour meant to scale as well as weapons. As written armour goes from miute to full round to free. Why not standard action at 16th?

The original version actually didn't get that final increase to free actions. I was fine for armour to plateau where it was. After adding the final version, I looked at it, and decided that it really didn't matter all that much if your armour sped up to a standard, since you probably weren't going to take it off throughout the day. Even if you did lose it, a full-round is hardly crippling, though potentially annoying.

While the increase isn't there, that's only because of a random whim. I could have just as easily added it in. Just didn't.


Exploding with Life: You really want to be as small as possible fore this ability. If you can get tiny than even flowers and grass will animate. Enlarge person cast on a Trancendent enemy as your attack of oppurtunity against this would be a great strategy.

Can you imagine if a Psion used their Compress power to make you something ridiculous? You could animate spores in the air. As it stands, I wouldn't be too pleased with myself if I enlarged an enemy Transcendent. Ancient trees in the middle of the forest are going to be utterly terrifying, even without the smaller fodder to support them.

If you really wanna get them, find a way to teleport them into a city. They're not likely to find much bigger than a pot plant. Then it's just the army of stray cats you need to worry about.

[Knitifine]

Essence of Discovery: You start each day much weaker than you end, unlike other classes. That is the point.

Your better off not restingIf you wanna deal with exhaustion and low HP, yes.

if you need to have your party members set up a bunch of rabbit traps for you to disarm. That will work exactly once, since the trap must be one the antiquarian was not previously aware of. I'll make a note to add a section on allies and trapping the Antiquarian to make them more effective is the release.

Antique Restoration: Does this force the DM to give out antiques?As much as Spellbook forces the DM to give out spells. These questions have been answered already.

[Mangles]

Knitted Knight: Would have liked to see more cold resistance and fire vulnerability interactions in this class (especially with the familiar). I really like the concept, just wish it had more followers and perhaps a custom living construct race associated with it. I feel like there's a lot of potential in this idea. I like the alternate class features, though I would have specified that the hook does piercing and/or bludgeoning damage, since slashing doesn't seem appropriate for a crochet hook.

These are good ideas. I should definitely add more to do with the resistance and vulnerability and enlarge/diversify the army of constructs they control. Your damage change makes sense too for the hook.

[Almarck]

So, what I am thinking of doing can be best described as "avatistic Incarnium-Binder"


The core of the class will be a list of "Essences" that take up the role of Vestiges. What with being bound to people all to give them benefits akin to what a Vestige would have... at the cost of influences. The catch? It's bound to your allies, not you. you prepare Essences by binding them to an ally for 24 hours, which causes them to suffer cumpulsions or manifest physical signs.

Essences can be bound to body parts, like soulmelds (though much simpler), for increased benefits.

I'm not going to do the whole Essentia shuffling thing though, you'll have plenty to deal with already.

You know all of your Essences at the start, but need to level up to unlock abilities or binding spots for all of them. So, it's a case of pick and choose what you need for the situation at the start of the day here, but maybe I can make it more flexibile.


The second part of the class would be a cache of items which serve to help you be an annoyance or support character. think of flask of alchemist fire stuff and tanglefoot bags... which can upgrrades to make them nastier.

[Knitifine]

So, what I am thinking of doing can be best described as "avatistic Incarnium-Binder"


The core of the class will be a list of "Essences" that take up the role of Vestiges. What with being bound to people all to give them benefits akin to what a Vestige would have... at the cost of influences. The catch? It's bound to your allies, not you.

Essences can be bound to body parts, like soulmelds (though much simpler), for increased benefits.


I'm not going to do the whole Essentia shuffling thing though, you'll have plenty to deal with already.Sounds pretty bizarre. I think there's probably a lot of design space to explore.
How are you going to relate that all back to nature?

[Almarck]

Sounds pretty bizarre. I think there's probably a lot of design space to explore.
How are you going to relate that all back to nature?


Edited. But that's easy. all of the Essences you can bind are nature based. Think "Raging River" or "Fiery Typhoon" or even "Bear's Wrath". Which means you'll give your allies the emotional temperments of primal forces.

[Temotei]

Voting is closed for the last contest.

In first place is the antiquarian, by Knitifine!

In second place, the photorealist, by bekeleven!

In third place, the transcendent, by Eno Remnant!

EDIT: Every participant voted. If peeps want to see totals, I have those, though the point totals mean little by themselves.

[Jormengand]

I would very much like to see points totals. This level of cloak-and-yet-more-cloak is somewhat irritating.

[Knitifine]

I am overjoyed to see that the Antiquarian won.

I also want to express congratulations towards the writers of the Photorealist and Transcendent and thank everyone who participated in and hosted this contest.

It was real fun. Time to go work on Egregore for the current contest.

[Almarck]

I would very much like to see points totals. This level of cloak-and-yet-more-cloak is somewhat irritating.



It's probably to ensure that people don't vote "strategically" to maximize their win chances. Which to be fair, I had to fight the temptation for quite a bit.






In other news, I could use some advice. The first part of my class is setup and now I need to populate that list, which will be done over the month. The downside is that this first, and most important part... is not useful for the class to act in combat since it's about binding buffs or "vestiges" to other people.

I want to know what I could do to represent things that the class itself does on its own time for its own benefit as opposed to others.

[Jormengand]

It's probably to ensure that people don't vote "strategically" to maximize their win chances.

Right, only it just changes the strategy from "Vote for the things with fewest votes" to "Vote for the things that you think are the worst." Not only does it not actually prevent tactical voting, it actually encourages people who want to do that to vote in a way that's even less conducive to the best class winning.

That, and the fact that knowing who voted how much and what their critique was, and actually having a thread with all the critiques, is really nice, especially if I'm remaking a class later (or if a DM wants to check that it's been reviewed by other forumites) and I want to check all of the critiques for it.

[Knitifine]

"Vote for the things that you think are the worst."
Perhaps among contributors. But I like to think that in a stakes-less contest people would just vote honestly.
Regardless, submitting votes anonymously keeps people from catching flak for their choices, which I believe is good.

[Jormengand]

Perhaps among contributors. But I like to think that in a stakes-less contest people would just vote honestly.
So do I. Why we're taking such measures to protect people's internet points while discouraging people from actually critiquing the classes in question I don't really know.


Regardless, submitting votes anonymously keeps people from catching flak for their choices, which I believe is good.

Mainly because it discourages people from actually saying anything useful. I don't come here to win internet points for things being better than other people's things. I come here for the critique. The format of the contest used to encourage this; it was changed with zero hours' notice to massively discourage it.

[Knitifine]

Mainly because it discourages people from actually saying anything useful. I don't come here to win internet points for things being better than other people's things. I come here for the critique. The format of the contest used to encourage this; it was changed with zero hours' notice to massively discourage it.
Disagree. People are unlikely to give substantial critique just because they're forced to give up anonymity. If they want to critique, they will.

[Jormengand]

Disagree. People are unlikely to give substantial critique just because they're forced to give up anonymity. If they want to critique, they will.

The previous contests had far more in the way of critique. It isn't a coincidence.

[Knitifine]

It isn't a coincidence.This is an assumption without any substantial evidence. There has been only a single contest in which the changes were implemented. That's a current sample size of 1 which is nowhere near enough to show anything.

[Mangles]

I kept the good points out of my critique for just such reasons. I felt that saying anything good would tip my hand as to who I voted for, so only put up negative critique.

I voted for Antiquarian because i thought the class using dug up or found artifacts was a great idea. Them interacting with each other with feats was fun and the class had a lot of flexibility. Instead I felt forced to say: "Does your DM have to give you the items" rather than "Like you've pointed out already, you should reword it to make it clearer that your DM doesn't have to give you the items."

EDIT:
Got a bit caught up there:

Also Grats on the wins all three of you. Very well made classes all round.

[Jormengand]

This is an assumption without any substantial evidence. There has been only a single contest in which the changes were implemented. That's a current sample size of 1 which is nowhere near enough to show anything.

I mean, apart from the people literally saying that it's not a coincidence that they didn't give the critique they normally would...

First there's the fact that the sample size isn't one, it's forty, because you count every member of both groups when counting a sample size. The group size is one, and also [insert problems with observational studies here], but the sample size is... I mean, I wouldn't trust a scientific study with sample size 40, but I don't have much of a choice and I'm not trying to be massively precise. Second, there's nothing stopping a single result in one group being meaningful for a known prior trend; if it's multiple standard deviations out of line it can easily hit the critical region (assuming p=0.05) on its own. Third, the fact that the change is noticeable with a single result actually implies that the change was a very drastic one. If it weren't then it would only be noticeable after a long time.

But then there's the fact that you're trying to apply scientific rigour to something that was a relatively trivially obvious observation about something that doesn't really merit the scientific method, so I don't know what that says about you.

[Temotei]

Totals were:

Antiquarian - 13 points
Photorealist - 7 points + tiebreaker vote from me for 2nd
Wizard of the Coast - 1 point
Transcendent - 7 points
Knitted Knight - 6 points
Artist Macabre - 2 points

[Knitifine]

I mean, apart from the people literally saying that it's not a coincidence that they didn't give the critique they normally would...I have not seen anyone claim that. Seems to be a bogus claim to me.

[Temotei]

I have not seen anyone claim that. Seems to be a bogus claim to me.

Jorm is referencing bekeleven saying they didn't post their critiques because they were very critical.


I wrote up some notes, but (like my notes always are) they're critical of everything so I feel like it's not wise for me to post them.

[Jormengand]

I have not seen anyone claim that. Seems to be a bogus claim to me.

Isn't it just a pity that someone did that right before I made the post saying so?

I mean, good god, if you're going to accuse me of lying at least make sure the truth isn't staring you straight in the face.

[Knitifine]

Isn't it just a pity that someone did that right before I made the post saying so?

I mean, good god, if you're going to accuse me of lying at least make sure the truth isn't staring you straight in the face.Please link to the post you are describing because I see no such post.

[Jormengand]

I kept the good points out of my critique for just such reasons. I felt that saying anything good would tip my hand as to who I voted for, so only put up negative critique.

*Whistles.*

[Knitifine]

*Whistles.*Okay. Well there's a couple of points I want to address.

That is not the post right before you complained, it is considerably after you started complaining.
That post is not a reflection on the voting method because it has been stated that you were free to disclose your own votes, rather it's more of a comment on the persons personality. Additionally, their comment had to do with phrasing something carefully, I (the designer in question) would have read both statements the same. "Hey you forgot this rule thing, that sucks". Yeah, I got it thank you, either way.

Finally, I am tabling this discussion because it has devolved into condescension and hostility which I certainly did not invite.

[Jormengand]

Okay. Well there's a couple of points I want to address.

That is not the post right before you complained, it is considerably after you started complaining.

Isn't it just a pity that someone did that right before I made the post saying so?
You'll notice that the post saying someone did that was #91 and the post in which they did was #90.


That post is not a reflection on the voting method because it has been stated that you were free to disclose your own votes, rather it's more of a comment on the persons personality.

Some things are still antecedent to other things even though there are other antecedents.


Finally, I am tabling this discussion because it has devolved into condescension and hostility which I certainly did not invite.

Right, because accusing someone of lying, while the truth is staring you right in the face, isn't hostile either. But fine, please do table this discussion: you were never positively contributing to it in the first place.

[Lanth Sor]

I publicly posted my votes because I missed the line saying we should message him them. When I saw it and chose not to message him because I had already posted publicly. Later I got a message saying I had not voted. I had not voted the way he had intended so I do not begrudge him for that but I think private voting kills the points mean nothing status of the competition. People should focus on the craft and hope people like thier class. The skillful voting to prevent someone form winning is a way you can make your votes have more impact. For instance Jor had an amazing class, but because the class was so META I couldn't support it on a whole. And well there was my critique of my class...sad panda.

[Knitifine]

The Egregore's class description, features and swarm companion are more or less finished. Any feedback on that or the WIP power list would be helpful.

[Knitifine]

I'm really excited about Feyblessed. I think Fey are definately underutilized.

Hm... I wonder if I could run a homebrew creature contest...

[Temotei]

I'm really excited about Feyblessed. I think Fey are definately underutilized.

Hm... I wonder if I could run a homebrew creature contest...

Back in the day, there was a monster contest that got a decent amount of traffic. I think more recently someone tried to start it up again but it didn't go so well. So, maybe? :smalltongue:

Worst that happens is no one posts and then you know.

[Knitifine]

Back in the day, there was a monster contest that got a decent amount of traffic. I think more recently someone tried to start it up again but it didn't go so well. So, maybe? :smalltongue:

Worst that happens is no one posts and then you know.Interested. Would it be alright if I copied some of the formatting you use for the base class contest?

[Mangles]

I've completed my entry besides finishing the saves and the druid casting progression. It is definitely more powerful than my last class.

[Eno Remnant]

Congrats to Knit and bek, you guys really earned it. For myself, I'm pleased and surprised - I honestly expected Wizard of the Coast to come in higher than the Transcendent. So thanks for rating my class higher than I did, I suppose :smalltongue:

Anyway, I promised I'd give my thoughts on the classes when I had the time, so here we go:

Knighted Knight: I was all about the flavour on this one, and the playstyle it supported looked fun, too. What lost it for me, bek already pretty much covered - it needed a bit of polishing, both in format and content. Missing skills, Magical Knit was just crazy as written, you get the idea. Overall, it's a fun-looking class that fit the theme well, but it had technical issues I couldn't overlook.

Wizard of the Coast: You know I'm always a fan of your work, Jorm, and this is no exception. The WotC is so tongue-in-cheek, from the flavour to the mechanics, and I loved it. The idea of giving out class features was inspired. My issues with it were largely that it's a bit of a slog to read through, and a little difficult to understand without multiple readings. I also couldn't really see myself playing it, so it lost a bit of its appeal to me personally. That said, it was my number three vote, all that humour and the uniqueness of the concept selling it for me.

Antiquarian: This was my number one vote. It was very nearly my number two vote, but it sold me on a decidedly tie-breaking factor: it looked like something I'd have a lot of fun with. Clearly, a lot of time and effort was devoted to this class, and it shows. It was given in an easy-to-read, polished format, and nothing about it seemed particularly over- or underpowered. It took a unique angle to the theme that I appreciated, and it screams options without overdoing it, which is always a good thing for a class. The only thing I had against the class, the one thing, was spending a week on new artifacts. Which is mostly down to the complete lack of downtime in campaigns I play. The Antiquarian definitely won this for me, no doubt.

Artist Macabre: I'm a sucker for dancing classes. Couldn't tell you why, that's just who I am. As such, I loved the theme and flavour of this class. However, I was immediately struck by the key feature. The class basically hinges on Dance of Blood, which is written in a somewhat confusing manner, and is rather situational. I felt like I could have fun with this, but I also felt like I'd have to put work in and go out of my way to force interactions with this ability. Much as I was sold on the fluff of the class, the crunch was a stumbling block.

Photorealist: So finally we reach, if you couldn't guess, my number two vote. Pretty much everything I said about the Antiquarian is true of the Photorealist - the invested effort, the options, the theme (which was really just a better use of painting than I had), it was all golden. In the end, the thing that separated the two classes was my bias towards the Antiquarian's main mechanic, and the spot of trouble I had figuring out the Photorealist's primary class feature; having to go over it a couple of times to get it set in my mind made me feel like it would give me trouble down the line if I played it myself, and I hate to have to constantly refer to a class feature to make sure I don't have it wrong. But the Photorealist is really fantastic, the work put into it is self-evident, and obviously I felt it earned second place.

Overall, I can honestly say I loved all of your work. You certainly gave me a run for my money. Again, thanks for rating the Transcendent as favourably as you did, it did far better than I could have hoped - and many congratulations to bek and Knit for outdoing me, and you two completely earned it.

[Temotei]

Interested. Would it be alright if I copied some of the formatting you use for the base class contest?

Sure, no problem.

[sengmeng]

Hi, I'm back :smallbiggrin:

I threw my hat in the ring with the Feyblessed. Still a WIP.

[ShiningStarling]

Interested. Would it be alright if I copied some of the formatting you use for the base class contest?

There's actually a Monster template in my contest (linked below), feel free to use it! :smallsmile:

[Temotei]

Coloring unfinished sections red is pretty clever, idareyou. I might have to steal that next time I'm making something big. A lot easier than my previous method of TEXT.

[sengmeng]

Feyblessed is playable. Feats and more paths may come.

I really question if it's balanced, since it has 9th level spells and full BAB. But, the Druid is hailed as one of the toughest gishes in the game, and this one has stunted spellcasting compared to them, which it has to sacrifice to gain wildshape instead of having it as a separate ability, and also an extremely restrictive oath compared to druids: no proficiency in armor or weapons and loss of all class abilities if broken. On the other hand, it has two more skills and all good saves. Anyone care to PEACH?

[Knitifine]

Feyblessed is playable. Feats and more paths may come.

I really question if it's balanced, since it has 9th level spells and full BAB. But, the Druid is hailed as one of the toughest gishes in the game, and this one has stunted spellcasting compared to them, which it has to sacrifice to gain wildshape instead of having it as a separate ability, and also an extremely restrictive oath compared to druids: no proficiency in armor or weapons and loss of all class abilities if broken. On the other hand, it has two more skills and all good saves. Anyone care to PEACH?

The Feyblessed looks really cool, but I had a couple of ideas.

First of all, the oath seems... flavor inappropriate? I guess to me, the idea of that fey don't make leather armor or weapons seems alien.
Second, I feel like being a prepared spellcaster is the wrong choice for this type of character, at least, power wise. They feel like they can honestly do a -lot- because of that. If your goal is to make a tier 1 one class that can go toe to toe with the druid though, then I don't think this is a problem.

Finally, from a design standpoint I dislike the dead level at 19th, and the continued use of 1d3 for unarmed damage (it's an awkward dice size I feel should be moved away from when possible).

Overall, it does look pretty good, I just think it could use some more refinement and punch.

[sengmeng]

The Feyblessed looks really cool, but I had a couple of ideas.

First of all, the oath seems... flavor inappropriate? I guess to me, the idea of that fey don't make leather armor or weapons seems alien.
Second, I feel like being a prepared spellcaster is the wrong choice for this type of character, at least, power wise. They feel like they can honestly do a -lot- because of that. If your goal is to make a tier 1 one class that can go toe to toe with the druid though, then I don't think this is a problem.

Finally, from a design standpoint I dislike the dead level at 19th, and the continued use of 1d3 for unarmed damage (it's an awkward dice size I feel should be moved away from when possible).

Overall, it does look pretty good, I just think it could use some more refinement and punch.

Thanks! I guess the balance sits fine with you at least. I think your problem with the oath could be fixed with more fluff support (since 4 of the 5 paths are named for animals, I was thinking that the oath was less about being like a fey and more about getting in touch with the beast within, which I failed to state). I'm not sure how to balance spontaneous casting with the druid spell list and I've always heard that favored souls suck because they apply the sorcerer's idea to a spell list that it doesn't work for. Themewise, it is the naturey version of a favored soul, but I don't want to make the same mistakes.

I agree about the unarmed damage and it wouldnt be gamebreaking to boost it to 1d4 at level 1 (or rather, increase the dice size by one in the case of characters other than the standard medium sized humanoids). Later the paths all give you ways to pile on more damage, so I'd probably have it stay the same all the way through.

I've been criticized before for filling every level, so this time for once I erred on the side of caution. Really though, there's no such thing as a dead level on a full caster, but I suppose I could move the final DR increase to 19th level. I'm open to other suggestions too, on that and for other paths. Is there any other sufficiently distinct combat style that a ferocious animal could represent? I dont want to make one based on cute fluffy bunnies or anything like that because I'd probably end up making five more instead of 1 or 2. I was thinking maybe a leader type represented by a lion, but the wolf covers group tactics pretty well. Maybe a crocodile or shark for aquatic campaigns? A dragon? Thanks again for the prompt response and positivity :)

[Knitifine]

Disclaimer: This posts contains a lot of OPINIONS about GAME BALANCE in 3.5E which are SUBJECTIVE.


I'm not sure how to balance spontaneous casting with the druid spell list and I've always heard that favored souls suck because they apply the sorcerer's idea to a spell list that it doesn't work for. Themewise, it is the naturey version of a favored soul, but I don't want to make the same mistakes.The favored soul sucks because it has to split its stats when it's class features already suggest a gish build and it must spend some spell known on healing in order to avoid party misunderstands or disappointment. In order to get around this, I would say you could give the 'Cure' line of spells as free spells known (though I'm also fond of Goodberry).


I agree about the unarmed damage and it wouldn't be gamebreaking to boost it to 1d4 at level 1 (or rather, increase the dice size by one in the case of characters other than the standard medium sized humanoids). Later the paths all give you ways to pile on more damage, so I'd probably have it stay the same all the way through.I would advance all the way to the devious level of 1d6 for medium sized characters. This way no standard race has to fiddle around with awkward 1d3s. This boosts your average damage by like... 2? So I don't think it's a huge deal. Damage has always been a rather finicky thing to balance in 3.5e anyways.


I've been criticized before for filling every level, so this time for once I erred on the side of caution. Really though, there's no such thing as a dead level on a full caster, but I suppose I could move the final DR increase to 19th level. I'm open to other suggestions too, on that and for other paths.Maybe a deception themed ability like A Thousand Faces?


Is there any other sufficiently distinct combat style that a ferocious animal could represent? I dont want to make one based on cute fluffy bunnies or anything like that because I'd probably end up making five more instead of 1 or 2. I was thinking maybe a leader type represented by a lion, but the wolf covers group tactics pretty well. Maybe a crocodile or shark for aquatic campaigns? A dragon?Perhaps shark based style based upon bleeding damage?


Thanks again for the prompt response and positivity :)
Always welcome. I hope this shapes up to be a great class, lots of good stuff going for it.

[Almarck]

Well after an hour of work, I managed to get enough of a signal to release the class's first part for read.


The keepers life and chassis are complete, and is sufficiently ready for you to infer the kind of loadour it's primary powersst so employ. The Essence system can be best described as a bastafdization of Binding and Oncarnoum Chakras though less restrictive and it's more about applying it to allies than yourself.

My main problem so far is a lack of ideas to give the keeper something to do while in combat.... I shoe horned in a pseudo ensnare and a miniblast to try work something out.

I'll see if I can be more active and comment on other people's work this time around. It's just a bit hard to do so because of band width problems.

[sengmeng]

I think the Feyblessed is done... changed it to a spontaneous caster, added two new paths, Ape (charging and movement) and Shark (bleeding and aquatic affinity), and added a 19th level boost to whichever path you've invested the most in.

[Almarck]

Well commitments got in the way. Wont be able to finish the class in time for the deadline especially since i scrapped the whole thing and restarted.

I was too ambitious.

[Temotei]

Well commitments got in the way. Wont be able to finish the class in time for the deadline especially since i scrapped the whole thing and restarted.

I was too ambitious.

If you need a little extra time, just ask. Life gets in the way sometimes, and I'm sure others would appreciate more time, too.

[Almarck]

If you need a little extra time, just ask. Life gets in the way sometimes, and I'm sure others would appreciate more time, too.


Lost way too mich time redesigning and have too many priorities. So im axing the one that has the least need. Sorry.

Just go on without me for now.

[Knitifine]

Due to crises both academic and financial I am forced to end development of the Egregore and submit it as is.
I apologize for any disappointment that brings.

[Lanth Sor]

Can we extend the end date to next Friday I couldn't muster the will to hammer through everything today?

[Temotei]

Can we extend the end date to next Friday I couldn't muster the will to hammer through everything today?

Sure thing, boss.

[Temotei]

Voting thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?537917-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXI-Voting-Thread) up.

[Lanth Sor]

So how about a Holiday themed contest or Winter themed one.

[Knitifine]

I would prefer a horror themed contest.

[Lanth Sor]

If we were not halfway through month i would agree.

[dragonjek]

How about a theme of entropy? With it being autumn and all.

[Temotei]

In 1st Place: The harbinger, by Lanth Sor!
In 2nd Place: The egregore, by Knitifine!
In 3rd Place: The feyblessed, by sengmeng!

Next contest will be up in a day or two. Congratulations to the participants.

[Knitifine]

Congratulations everybody!

[Lanth Sor]

Finally. I wish it was against jorg or zaydos. But great job everyone.

[Jormengand]

Finally. I wish it was against jorg or zaydos. But great job everyone.

I wasn't sure whether we were still using cloak-and-dagger voting and "Nature" didn't inspire me much anyway. If I had participated, I was thinking of making someone who created a moving plant around them, but the concept never really went anywhere.

[Morphic tide]

I wasn't sure whether we were still using cloak-and-dagger voting and "Nature" didn't inspire me much anyway. If I had participated, I was thinking of making someone who created a moving plant around them, but the concept never really went anywhere.
Pillars of Eternity has a thing that would let that concept be somewhat interesting, in that it's a group of symbiotic-with-eachother plants. That are also parasitizing a humanoid creature to use for their skeleton. The implementation is, essentially, having a choice list where the choices come from using various plants to make your floral chimeric exo-suit. Having the options be dominantly low-HD Plant creatures makes it so that you can have them head off as minions, using a HD control cap.

[Temotei]

Apologies for getting it up late, but here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540722-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXII-Entropy-and-Renewal)'s the new contest.

[Almarck]

Hm.... anyone else planning anything?

Considering. Class that works via absorbing kills.

[Morphic tide]

Hm.... anyone else planning anything?

Considering. Class that works via absorbing kills.

Well, it needs to have some means of healing or otherwise supporting to fit the theme.

I'm probably going to do some subsystem shenanigans, myself, but mainly crib off of existing subsystems. Not sure which subsystem, might just be a Necrocarnum setup, or maybe one of the homebrew subsystems out there. Ritual Magic is a bit too extreme, while Limit(Final Fantasy styled) could work for a mixed setup. Maybe take one of the one-off subsystems like Truenaming or Shadowcasting.

Hmm... Ultimately, I want to be doing a life-transfering alchemist kind of character, and I've been working on the concepts and mechanics needed to turn only the Bloodtinge stuff from Bloodborne into a Martial Discipline that doesn't fill space with purely sequential number improvements. Maybe use the class as a sort of soundboard for the thematics of messing with Tome of Battle fluff to accomplish what I want. ToB Blade Magic is partly Ki and partly the mundane motions, which means that the Ki side can be altered significantly by classes. Moving it to positive/negative energy makes it meet the requirements of this contest, while accomplishing what I want largely means making item crafting class features. ToB could use some crafting, anyway, and the Ki fluff gives an opening for it by having Ki-infused items providing the effect.

Having them tied to Manoeuvres like magic items seems kinda wrong, particularly given how Disciplines usually only have two or three effects throughout the whole thing. General requirements, like "X Manoeuvres of Y Discipline" are the real thing here. Sometimes tags too, like needing two Desert Wind Boosts to make a Supernatural Fire Elemental summoning item, or needing a Shadow Hand Rush/[Teleportation] Manoeuvre to make a teleportation item.

...this is assuming that I actually work over the thing, mind you. Most of the system will probably be external to the class post so that I have it ready for other Contests.

[sengmeng]

I was thinking of revisiting my karmic spellcasting mechanics from a previous contest and making a martial half caster who switches from living to undead depending on whether their karma is positive or negative at the moment.

[Knitifine]

I imagine I'll only start working on an entry December 1st, once class is out, but I'm planning on doing an invocation using necromancer.

[Almarck]

I call dibs on a class ability that is a drawback that forces the character to start the game middle aged and higher levels force you to be even older. The capstone is obviously partly yo restore it.

"I traded my life for power."

[Morphic tide]

I call dibs on a class ability that is a drawback that forces the character to start the game middle aged and higher levels force you to be even older. The capstone is obviously partly yo restore it.

"I traded my life for power."

Make sure to minimize mental score scaling, because ageing always increases mental scores. I'd throw in immunity to other forced ageing or ability scaling by age category, making sure to do something to stop Dragonwrought Kobold shenanigans from screwing it all up.

Also, needs more Renewal on it to properly fit the contest.

[Knitifine]

I think it's kind of funny how in here everyone likes. "This concept needs more renewal to fit the base class", while in the prestige class context people are like "Yeah, blowing stuff up is totally on theme with small things."

[Temotei]

I think it's kind of funny how in here everyone likes. "This concept needs more renewal to fit the base class", while in the prestige class context people are like "Yeah, blowing stuff up is totally on theme with small things."

Hey, you blow things up and they're small now. :smalltongue:

[Knitifine]

Hey, you blow things up and they're small now. :smalltongue:Ah yeah, I forgot the secret third definition of small: Deconstructed. :smalltongue:

[Jormengand]

I think it's kind of funny how in here everyone likes. "This concept needs more renewal to fit the base class", while in the prestige class context people are like "Yeah, blowing stuff up is totally on theme with small things."

Well, fine, I suppose I will rise to the thinly-veiled bait.

You see, for the majority of these contests, the theme has been used as inspiration. A starting point. Not a choking restriction. This was just as true when I won the dungeons contest with a DM class - no, a DM doesn't necessarily actually have anything to do with dungeons, and the class in question had no conection to dungeons. But the connection to the theme wasn't there. There wasn't anyone wondering why the DM didn't have any actual dungeon-related stuff in it because people understand that the dungeon master's name is in itself the connection.

This was equally true when I won the discovery contest with the inventor because everyone with even a shred of intellectual honesty (which I understand is a category which excludes you, but try to pretend for a moment) can understand that the two are closely linked. It was equally true when I won the sweets contest by playing on the word sweet because everyone grokked intrinsically that that was a valid thing you can do. It was also true when I won the eight schools of magic contest by making a class themed around a bunch of extra schools because again, that's a thing you can do. And it will be true if I win the prestige class contest.

The entire point of the leveller is about little people destroying big things, about the "How the mighty have fallen!" aesthetic (I didn't quote the entirety of Ozymandias in the preface for the sheer hell of it), and about how even the thousand-foot spires of the tallest tower are nothing before a 5 ft 5 wizard with a temperament.

And though I do say so myself, I think that this kind of tangential play on the theme is actually cleverer than "It fit with dungeon theme because it work good in dungeon! It fit with discovery theme because it discover! It fit with small theme because size category go down!" Certainly, the idea of being creative with the theme shouldn't be restricted, let alone prevented outright.

Of course I'm sure you won't listen to me since you seem to have this weird hate-on for me, mainly because I keep being right I suppose, but that's on you. *Mic drop.*

[Knitifine]

I was thinking of having the class really focus on zombie and skeleton minions. But I don't like how 3.5 does them, should I include an errata to those creatures to make it work or just name my version like... fleshys and bonepals?

[Morphic tide]

I think it's kind of funny how in here everyone likes. "This concept needs more renewal to fit the base class", while in the prestige class context people are like "Yeah, blowing stuff up is totally on theme with small things."

Hey, I complained about that! And I'm the one doing the swarm-controlling PRC that's wound up with a touch of Changeling in that the casting progression function can be changed on a daily basis. Makes a Psion dip pretty useful by letting you apply the progression to Psion instead of getting Wilder manifesting.

...Digging more into the life-transfering ToB Alchemist idea I'm floating at the moment(won't start it until I'm done with Hive Master), I'll probably give it access to Desert Wind, Divine Spirit, Shadow Hand and White Raven. Damage, more damage and healing, yet more damage and also shenanigans, and then buffing other people because t3/borderline t2.


I was thinking of having the class really focus on zombie and skeleton minions. But I don't like how 3.5 does them, should I include an errata to those creatures to make it work or just name my version like... fleshys and bonepals?

...Or I could shamelessly steal this concept and apply it to a metazombie setup that uses abnormal statblocks, like using the Evil subtype instead of Always Evil alignment. Then tack on Deathless as Good-subtyped with abilities built around shenanigans with making Undead that have effects based on what subtypes they have.

[Knitifine]

Hey, I complained about that! And I'm the one doing the swarm-controlling PRC that's wound up with a touch of Changeling in that the casting progression function can be changed on a daily basis. Makes a Psion dip pretty useful by letting you apply the progression to Psion instead of getting Wilder manifesting.Yeah. To me allowing stuff that far removed from the concept kind of killed the integrity of the contest to me, but everyone has their own standards, I just thought it was really funny how far removed the two contests were in mood despite being on the same board.

I'll be posting the skeleton for my class up soon.

Edit: It's technically up now, if anyone wants to look at a jumble of ideas, wrapped in a bundle of edge, cushioned by a bun of snark.

[Almarck]

I was thinking of having the class really focus on zombie and skeleton minions. But I don't like how 3.5 does them, should I include an errata to those creatures to make it work or just name my version like... fleshys and bonepals?



Try treating them as a swarm or a squad using pathfinder as a basis. Basically, each spacd represents a whole rank that combines all units together to make one big horde.

Simply being close causes damage, because thats so many skeletons going at you. For added fun, have it so that the swarm or squad is made of a mix of undead with upgrades adding more types fluff wise.

[Knitifine]

That's a really cool idea, but it's not what I'm going for right now.

[Knitifine]

The class skeleton is now done, including descriptions of all it's core abilities. All that needs to be done is detail how all the invocations work and replace the snark with the flavor and space-saving-text with elaborated rules text.

Edit: I have wrote all the invocation descriptions for non-warlock, non-undead-raising invocations. The undead raising invocations will have to wait till I finish feel like writing out a ton of monster stat blocks.
Edit 2: Okay, now everything except that new undead/undead creation spells are done.

[Knitifine]

Does anyone know a good website for art? I've been looking up necromancer pictures, but I can't find any that aren't owned by companies or on deviantart (which exploits artists and steals their work, so I don't really wanna go there.)

[neriractor]

@knitifine, is generaly preferable to just edit a post several times instead of making 2 or three posts in a row, and to answer your question, I don´t know of a good website for art.

[ElFi]

Posted the skeleton of my submission; it's based off a PF class concept I'd been kicking around for a while but didn't know how to put together until now, with some inspiration taken from CthulhuM's wonderful Somaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?49859-base-The-Somaturge-Because-it-s-about-time-DnD-had-a-real-pet-class&highlight=Somaturge) class. Heals things, hurts things, summons temporary golems, and can eventually do neat stuff like raising the dead or brainwashing targets by taking command of their life energy.

Knitfine, have you tried looking on Pinterest?

[Knitifine]

I haven't, I'll give that a shot next, thank you.

On a seperate note, I was glancing over the animist and I think it's looking pretty snazzy. I'm excited to see what the full version of the class looks like. :smallbiggrin:

[ElFi]

On a seperate note, I was glancing over the animist and I think it's looking pretty snazzy. I'm excited to see what the full version of the class looks like. :smallbiggrin:

Eeeeh, yay! Likewise looking forward the the Necrotheurge's completion.

[Almarck]

Got the groundwork for my entry in. It's pretty bizarre as far as classes go since you see all of the negatives first.

[Lanth Sor]

Final Leg. *Pulls Hair Out*

[Jormengand]

Final Leg. *Pulls Hair Out*

Ugh. I don't know how I'm gonna finish mine anything like on time, honestly.

[Knitifine]

I'd like to request an extension, I've just finished finals and I'm currently studying pretty vigorously for a competition while trying to get in some break time, so I'm not sure it's realistic for me to finish my entry within the currently allotted time period.

[Temotei]

I'd like to request an extension, I've just finished finals and I'm currently studying pretty vigorously for a competition while trying to get in some break time, so I'm not sure it's realistic for me to finish my entry within the currently allotted time period.

And it seems you're not alone in wanting an extension. Granted. Holidays will slow everyone down, too, so I'll give two additional weeks instead of just one.

Good luck and happy holidays everyone!

[Lanth Sor]

Other life task have got in the way I need to shift my focus.

[Knitifine]

Unfortunately I fell very ill and won't be able to complete the necrotheurge. I've deleted my entry and withdrawn. I wish everyone else the best of luck.

[Jormengand]

I'm pretty sure that no entry was actually completed on time. Two entries, the animist and the brahmin have all their class tables and features but not spell-equivalent lists done on time, and one entry, the usury mage, was done completely, but not on time.

[Temotei]

I'm pretty sure that no entry was actually completed on time. Two entries, the animist and the brahmin have all their class tables and features but not spell-equivalent lists done on time, and one entry, the usury mage, was done completely, but not on time.

Yeah.

So, what do? Can people finish within a few days? Should we just start another contest? Do we start voting for two incomplete entries and one complete-but-not-on-time entry?

[Malapterus]

I'm pretty sure that no entry was actually completed on time. Two entries, the animist and the brahmin have all their class tables and features but not spell-equivalent lists done on time, and one entry, the usury mage, was done completely, but not on time.

I got it posted 33 minutes before the deadline ;_;

I just went back in to fix the tables & bold the class features names for readability


*edit: that is not to say I am against an extension. I'd really like to see what these other people can do & if I can stack up against completed entries.

[ElFi]

If I really buckled down and got to work, I could probably finish the class within a couple of days. Ideas have just been escaping me lately.

[Temotei]

I got it posted 33 minutes before the deadline ;_;

I just went back in to fix the tables & bold the class features names for readability


*edit: that is not to say I am against an extension. I'd really like to see what these other people can do & if I can stack up against completed entries.


If I really buckled down and got to work, I could probably finish the class within a couple of days. Ideas have just been escaping me lately.

Then I'll extend the due date a bit more to the 7th. Hopefully some others can finish as well and we can have a slightly more sporting voting thread.

[Knitifine]

I'll try to find some time in the next couple of days to complete the necrotheurge and repost it to thicken the competition (I kept the old post for later completion).

[Malapterus]

Since we have a couple days, any comments on my Usury Mage?

I changed a little something so one cannot spam the Soul Draft as much.

[ElFi]

Argh, I couldn't finish working out the ideas of the class. Sorry. Gonna have to pull out of the contest.

[Malapterus]

So, I guess this one is a bust?

And it was my first time, too ):

[Lanth Sor]

Yeah I tried then got swamped. I'm currently working on my World Anvil (https://www.worldanvil.com/) for my setting(Era'Guya (https://www.worldanvil.com/w/eraguya-Lanthsor)). Additionally have a class based on a variant on the Mythos system in the works. Using a "class Quest" system instead of how mythos work now. Will post when it doesn't look like 50% of my posts here(incomplete).

[Jormengand]

I think that the Brahmin required too much thought process for me to complete while also grappling with my mental state. Maker - the PrC entry I'm doing right now - is a lot of stuff, but it's also a lot of stuff that's easy to work out. Take another creature, slap three immunities on it, increase its stats, take another creature, slap three immunities on it, increase its stats, maybe give it some SLAs... but my mind is a bit too frazzled for coming up with clever, unique abilities at the moment.

Plus, while the concept was cool, it never really inspired me because I was never sure what a finished Brahmin was supposed to feel like to play. So there's that.

[Morphic tide]

At this point, I think Death and Renewal should be called as a screwup and given over to Usury Mage by default, as it looks to be the most complete and we're over two months over deadline.

[rferries]

At this point, I think Death and Renewal should be called as a screwup and given over to Usury Mage by default, as it looks to be the most complete and we're over two months over deadline.

Or a final 1-week notice, for people to complete whatever they've already submitted?

[Morphic tide]

Or a final 1-week notice, for people to complete whatever they've already submitted?

Well, I sent Temotei a PM to be sure the note was received, so we're now kinda just waiting.

[Temotei]

At this point, I think Death and Renewal should be called as a screwup and given over to Usury Mage by default, as it looks to be the most complete and we're over two months over deadline.


Or a final 1-week notice, for people to complete whatever they've already submitted?

I suppose a one-week final notice would be fine given that I've been fairly absent.

Changing final date to 2359 on Monday, March 26th.

[sengmeng]

I suppose a one-week final notice would be fine given that I've been fairly absent.

Changing final date to 2359 on Monday, March 26th.

And the contest given up for dead is back! (Looks at theme). Damn, that's so meta.

[Morphic tide]

*is suddenly tempted to actually cram out preliminary version of subsystem*

...The question is which subsystem do I want to work out, because I have a surprising number of different ideas for them, and can twist basically all of them into fitting the theme, one way or another. I mean, I could also make a monster class akin to Oslecamo's MinMax ones, in which case I could just go with the surprising variety of Frankenstein's Monster analogues present rolled into one class, probably with a subclass thing to delineate type of monster.

Granted, there's subsystem ideas I've had specks of for... over two years now (wow, it's been a long time since I got the Tricossiate thread locked for necromancy) that could easily tie in fairly well, which would also make a central mechanic that's hellishly difficult to work with on the Cadaver Golem part of the idea easier to integrate. Being able to point towards a list of partial classes instead of needing to exhaustively detail every interaction would make it easier to work with, basically.

Hmm... Well, for starters, to be eligible for this would mean that it'd have to be race-agnostic. Not particularly hard, and would make tying "renewal" in easier, but it might lead to some odd clauses for the sake of retaining thematic coherence. The main clause would be "you have to have died in the past", with a limited selection of initial options that all give some method of self-resurrection. Even if it's utterly unsupported by any existing mechanic in that subsystem.

[Zaydos]

I may exist need to consider a list of non-Lawful Fire beings. And to remember how 3.5 works. And to figure out if I can hammer out a new subsystem-esque thing in a few days.

[Temotei]

And the contest given up for dead is back! (Looks at theme). Damn, that's so meta.

All according to plan. :smalltongue:

Not really.

[Jormengand]

All according to plan. :smalltongue:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/037/923/keikaku.jpg

Anyway, I'm technically not sure whether or not I'll get Brahmin done in a week (man, it's been a long time since I worried about the Brahmin) but I probably won't. I would need to make, what, four or five incarnations a day before I was happy with how many I had? So, meh. Unlikely, possible. Unlikely.

[rferries]

Whew! Finished my conversion of the Nameless One (from the Planescape: Torment computer game), mainly because I decided to excise all the Faction feats I had planned :D. Looks like we all have hefty entries for this contest!

[Morphic tide]

Largely-placeholder version of the class post has been made. Will finish it up... Probably post-contest, sadly, but it'll probably have the bare minimum to function before then. Have to do a good deal of number crunching and comparisons and analysis of really old homebrew (okay, not that old, only 2012, but still) before I can work out the subsystem and, from there, features. Because the two are fairly strongly tied together.

[Jormengand]

Okay, so I've got brahmin to an actually playable state - a minimum viable product, I guess. I want more incarnations, but they're not strictly necessary I guess. Got a while to add some finishing touches. Any requests or suggestions for incarnations (I guess people request things from me? That's a thing now?) that people make in the next few hours will probably be worked in, even if they're just "It needs something to do in [situation]".

[Morphic tide]

Speaking of minimum viable products, the Skaberen needs one more association. Can't quite decide on what to do for the Incarnum Association for the pair, as I'm torn between a Necrocarnum Zombie based one, using the Totemist meld list as a semi-placeholder preliminary to get it "out the door", with the Necrocarnate's stuff for soul assimilation added, and a Roguish sort using the Soulborn list (and the somewhat obligated lower progression) with precision damage and an etherealness ability (not the spell, the act of becoming Ethereal) that progresses to full on flight. And 7d6 precision damage, whatever it may have as a clause.

...Skaberen is probably going to be way too prone to ending up functionally t2 (the game breakers for the genuine qualification are beyond the progression available) on accident due to list expansion over time. Because the arguments for Wizard being t1 come very close to applying (it's routine ability swapping rather than everything on call, but on an hourly-with-corpses instead of daily-with-spellbook basis. And Wizard needs Magic Mart to seriously one-up Sorcerer, particularly given the difference in practical versatility between prepared and spontaneous), and 5th level spells are often enough to wreck campaigns. Especially with multiple lists and even power sources potentially available. For now, it seems solidly t3 to me, as the baseline features work for both nearly all healing needs (provided the Heal skill is high enough to deal with tissue rejection, even reviving the dead is entirely doable. With a note as to fixing the failed check problems) and melee combat, with some skills appropriate for intrigue, then the existing Association... Basically gives it Wizard casting of a third its level and a Skeleton Warrior of half its level, with Conjuration as an auto-banned school.

[sengmeng]

Well, I wasn't feeling too inspired until the very last minute, buy it hit all at once and I type up the Phoenixborn today... on my phone. Never doing that again. Forgive me for not putting in columns for powers known and highest level power; that would have been just a bit too tedious. If you must see them, it's identical to the Wilder class.

Obvious inspirations are the dragonborn from Skyrim, and the phoenix force from X-men.

[Morphic tide]

...Well that just embaresses me, now doesn't it? Then again, I filled out some 1,300 cells of tables without being able to just reuse them, and had to work out stuff for a subsystem at the same time without being able to purely ad-hoc it because the topic is way too breakable. Also, bundles of other forums. Like, way too much focus splitting.

[Morphic tide]

Pretty sure the contest is done, now.

[rferries]

Pretty sure the contest is done, now.

Ayup. *sits back in rocking chair on veranda, puffs pipe*

[Temotei]

Sorry for the delay, peeps. Was away from my home and computer for a few extra days. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?554703-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXII-Voting-Thread) we go!

[sengmeng]

Third to Phoenix. I wanted to rank it higher but it feels like it needs more meat on it's bones as a class. Still like the base idea though and would love to see some expanded stuff on it after the contest.

Definitely agree. The idea was still forming the day of the deadline; just an hour to breathe and then go over it again would have probably led to double the feats and some better streamlining/scaling of the class features. Usually I try to post a skeletal but playable class early and then just add support like feats and class-specific spells/powers/whatever after letting it stew for a bit. Tried to go through that whole process in six hours this time. Still pretty happy with the result, but it needs and deserves more love after the contest.

[Lanth Sor]

Next game options
1. Liars
2. Lovers
3. Haters
4. Memes
5. Everyday Heroes

[sengmeng]

4. Memes


My vote. Still have an idea rattling around for an Amazing Horseman. Or maybe a diviner who calls on various advice animals. Or maybe a light mage who specializes in attacking the darkness. Or hey, why not Zoidberg?

But for another option: meta. Just the idea of being really meta.

[ShiningStarling]

I'm gonna vote memes, cause I can actually think of something for that...

[Jormengand]

I already did the ultimate meme class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427253-Base-Class-Contest-XXIX-Games-Games-Everywhere&p=19521352&viewfull=1#post19521352), though! :smalltongue:

[khadgar567]

I already did the ultimate meme class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427253-Base-Class-Contest-XXIX-Games-Games-Everywhere&p=19521352&viewfull=1#post19521352), though! :smalltongue:
ow shut up you overgrown snake. my vote is also on memes and i think i got the idea for it

[rferries]

I think I'm already outnumbered but I'll go for Everyday Heroes! I'll make a tier 1 noncaster if it kills me :D

[Lanth Sor]

I think I'm already outnumbered but I'll go for Everyday Heroes! I'll make a tier 1 noncaster if it kills me :D

My vote is for "Everyday Heroes" too. I love classes like the fire fighter, the baker, the farmer, the candle stick maker. :D

[ShiningStarling]

... i withdraw my vote for memes, too many good possibilities in Everyday Heroes

[Jormengand]

Everyday heroes does sound more interesting than memes, I'd say.

[Morphic tide]

...Okay, Sengmeng, can you explain the spelling and grammar issues that led you to place Skabaren below Nameless One? Because it seriously bugs me, as I had no spelling errors according to the GiantITP inbuilt spellcheck and the grammar should be at least entirely technically correct, though perhaps it's stilted. Do you just dislike the word choices?

I also find it funny that nobody has come forth to sling **** at me for having grave robbing corpse-stitchers tend towards morally neutral, with the justification that the demographics of those able to become one are heavily slanted to those who will pull an Edgelord Tortured Monster while graverobbing and butchering corpses on the street. Then again, Chaotic people can get away with that, because Chaos is a matter of rejecting authority, rather than malice. Quite helpfully, the Association setup means you can build around a single level of another class as a source of Associations, such as snagging Paladin 2 with Serenity

As for the next contest, I'll go with Memes, because I didn't do anything for the idiom-based one and there's a supply of some high-end silliness.

[sengmeng]

Certainly.

Skaberen


https://cdn.pucatrade.com/cards/crops/sm/30725.jpg

Put a quote by or about a member of your class here!

Stitched corpses around sorrowful souls, vengeful wraiths wrapped in the flesh of those who wronged them, surgeon-priests who became ageless horrors for their cause, Skaberen are half-dead creatures that stitch parts of corpses onto themselves after stitching their souls back into their own bodies, calling on echos of minds, lingering fragments of souls, esoteric corporeal properties and sometimes merely properties attributed to the creatures rather than anything actually present to gain abilities based on the dead they find.

Adventures: Skaberen adventure largely to have less opposition to their work or presence, as adventurers are more often tolerant of unpleasant means of deriving benefit from slain foes and disfigurements from past events. The other major reason for Skaberen adventurers is that they seek exotic creatures and powerful persons to advance themselves, whether ancient priest-kings or still extant necromancers, the grave sites of long-dead dragons or taking advantage of a hunt to claim the corpse of a Manticore.

Characteristics: Corpse-stitchers by nature, Skaberen find themselves difficult to put down when they have a supply of flesh to replace damage body parts and can change their capabilities rapidly, so long as they have the right bodies around. Particularly old Skaberen

Alignment: Rarely Lawful, owing to a frequent dislike of nature and the assumption of mortality, their moral status is usually Neutral, as many of those most predisposed to becoming Skaberen commit the acts needed out of desperation and many do not abandon morality entirely, at least not before slain by authorities for breaking laws relating to treatment of the dead or attempting to slay beasts to maintain themselves.

Religion: Gods of magic, life, death, knowledge, chaos and more all find themselves with a smattering of Skaberen followers, people who took up faith to deal with their own now-horrid nature or never abandoned the faith they had in their previous lives, or following Gods they believe accept what they have done and have become.

Background: Skaberen come about most frequently from traumatic deaths that would typically create ghosts, but something allowed the spirit to repair and inhabit the body, returning to a semblance of life. Whether knowledge of Divine healing used to remove the fatal wounds without enough power to properly re-inhabit their natural form or Incarnate skills used to force the soul to continue within the body, they always come about with some skill that allows for cheating death in one way or another.

Races: Cowardly and hunted races, such as Kobolds and Goblins, more frequently encounter the conditions necessary, while long-lived and magically inclined races such as Elves and Dwarves more frequently have the skills needed to perform the self-revival. Races such as Azurin have innate talents that naturally lead to the skills needed to make the transition.

Other Classes: Clerics who worship non-Evil Gods of Death and most Druids view Skaberen with disdain, as most Skaberen find themselves robbing graves and butchering those they've fought, and Paladins are prone to assuming them true Undead or genuinely Evil and attempt to slay them for crimes, perceived or otherwise. Wizards with knowledge of Necromancy often find themselves curious about the bindings between flesh and soul, seeking either their own immortality through less prejudiced or difficult means than Lichdome or improving their own necrotic creations.

Role: Skaberen typically take up the role of a frontline damage dealer and healer, owing to abilities found in all of them, though their abilities allow them to fill any role, should they find corpses of creatures or persons with abilities conductive to the role.

Adaptation: In settings lacking afterlives, or at least spirits formed from trauma or regret, Skaberen would typically find a horrid reputation justified, as the dominant remaining method of their existence is mad necromancers and healers warping themselves to extend their lives or become more powerful. Settings lacking proper resurrection find little inherent issue with Skaberen, as they are defined by an only partially successful attempt at self-revival, born of improperly attaching the soul to the body.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Skaberen have the following game statistics.
Abilities: The primary ability score of a Skaberen is Wisdom, as it is vital to utilizing their abilities properly, though Constitution is used for several abilities and Intelligence is a frequently useful, though optional, ability score.

Alignment: Skaberen, owing to the acts they must commit to diversify and improve, are rarely Lawful, owing to disrespect, even disdain, for nature and the dead, and frequently viewed as Evil, though they are slightly more often Neutral than genuinely Evil themselves.
Hit Die: d10
Starting Age: As Bard
Starting Gold: As Barbarian

Class Skills
The Skaberen's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (History, Nature, Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis)

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

CLASS NAME


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Maximum Association Level
Total Association Level


1st

+0

+2

+0

+2
Echo of the Grave, Stitched Together
1
1


2nd

+1

+3

+0

+3
Reckless Force +2
1
1


3rd

+2

+3

+1

+3
Stitcher-Surgeon (Healing)
2
2


4th

+3

+4

+1

+4
Reckless Force +3
2
3


5th

+3

+5

+2

+5
Half-Dead Horror (AC)
3
3


6th

+4

+5

+2

+5
Reckless Force +4, Stitcher-Surgeon (Ability Damage)
3
4


7th

+5

+5

+2

+5
Attentive Strikes
4
5


8th

+6/+1

+6

+2

+6
Reckless Force +5
4
6


9th

+6/+1

+6

+3

+6
Aiding the Return
5
6


10th

+7/+2

+7

+3

+7
Reckless Force +6
5
7


11th

+8/+3

+7

+3

+7
Half-Dead Horror (25% Fortification, Resistances)
6
8


12th

+9/+4

+8

+4

+8
Reckless Force +7
6
9


13th

+9/+4

+8

+4

+8
Stitcher-Surgeon (Efficient Use)
7
9


14th

+10/+5

+9

+4

+9
Reckless Force +8
7
10


15th

+11/+6/+1

+9

+5

+9

8
11


16th

+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+10
Reckless Force +9
8
12


17th

+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+10
Half-Dead Horror (50% Fortification, Immunities)
9
12


18th

+13/+8/+3

+11

+6

+11
Reckless Force +10
9
13


19th

+14/+9/+4

+11

+6

+11
Aiding the Return, Greater
10
14


20th

+15/+10/+5

+12

+6

+12
Reckless Force +11, Endless Perseverance
10
15



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Skaberen.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Skaberen are proficient with all Simple weapons and Light and Medium armor, but not shields.

Echo of the Grave (Ex): The one experience all Skaberen have in common is death. Every one of them has experienced it firsthand, if only briefly, and rejected it with only partial success. Upon gaining their first level of Skaberen, a creature may become an Undead or Construct with the Augmented subtype if they choose, becoming ageless, but also becoming unable to benefit from normal healing magic or natural healing, including restoration of ability damage or drain. Undead Skaberen can be healed by Negative Energy, while Construct Skaberen can be repaired as any other Construct, using the Heal skill instead of Craft for methods that use it, such as repairing Warforged. If they would die of old age or starvation, they instead automatically become an Undead or Construct, losing their previous type entirely. In either case, they do not gain immunity to poison, death effects or mind-affecting effects. Their first Association level must have the Healing, Necromancy or Incarnum tag.

However, because Skaberen are universally dead persons who returned under their own power, one cannot gain their first level of Skaberen like an ordinary class. Instead, they must have an ability that allows them to return themselves or others to life that would not normally work to revive themselves in the circumstances of their death, but must be available to them, as well as have enough XP to gain a level. If they choose to, such a creature may choose to gain a level in Skaberen and lose a level in one other class, spending XP as if gaining a level normally, returning to life in the process. Alternatively, a non-Undead, non-Construct creature capable of creating Undead with at least as many hit dice as them can cast a spell capable of creating intelligent Undead with as many hit dice as themselves and trade a class level or racial hit die for a level of Skaberen, with their Alignment moving one step towards Chaotic.

Stitched Together (Su): While Skaberen are merely heavily scarred members of their former race when they first arise, they often rapidly find themselves using the flesh of other creatures to remove the scars and truly close the wounds of their death, finding that this both invigorates them and offers them skills they lacked previously. Many find newer wounds only healing when the flesh is replaced, or when old bones in another part of their body are changed out for "new" bones.

At 1st level, they may stitch flesh and bone from living creatures, or at least the corpses of such, into themselves in a process taking one hour, making a Heal check. This restores health equal to the result of the check multiplied by the creature's or the Skaberen's Constitution modifier, whichever is higher, with an upper limit of thrice their Skaberen level or twice the HD of the creature, whichever is higher. They may also gain Association levels connected to the creature, or retrain their existing Association levels to ones connected to the creature, up to a limit of their Constitution modifier or the creature's hit dice. This may only grant them Association levels with the Monster, Incarnum or Necromancy tags. This ability may only be used on corpses, and only once per corpse.

Reckless Force (Ex): A Skaberen's sense of touch is often twisted and their ability to use their bodies is warped to decidedly unnatural limits. This offers them the ability to push themselves much harder than normal creatures, at the cost of inflicting damage upon themselves for doing so. This does not benefit dexterity or mental acuity, but the brute force they can bring to bare has its own value.

At 2nd level, a Skaberen may add a Racial Bonus of one plus one half their class level to any roll that applies their Strength or Constitution modifier once per turn , but take Bludgeoning damage equal to half the bonus applied. Any effect that would reduce or negate this damage instead makes it nonlethal damage.

Stitcher-Surgeon (Su): Experienced Skaberen learn to adapt their skills to aid others, however unsightly the results. Because of this, they often take up jobs as healers later on in "life", whether as a cover for their other activities or out of true benevolence. Some merely do it to have something to do with excess stocks of flesh and bone, creating rudimentary grafts to replace lost limbs and masses of lost flesh.

At 3rd level, they may stitch corpse-flesh onto other living creatures in a process taking ten minutes, making a heal check. The target regains HP equal to the check times their Constitution modifier, up to a limit of twice the hit dice of the creature the flesh came from or three times the Skaberen's class level, whichever is lower, sharing use limits with Stitched Together. At 6th level, they may restore ability damage instead of health at a rate of one point per five HP the check made could restore. At 13th level, they may use a single corpse and skill check to heal any number of creatures, taking ten minutes per target. The total HP healed is increased to the HP the creature possessed in life.

If the flesh is from a creature not of the same race as the target(s), then using this ability to heal others is a DC 20 Heal check, adding the target(s)'s Fortitude save bonus to the check and the creature's CR as an increase to the DC. On a failed check, only half as much health is healed and the target(s) take 1 point of Constitution damage per 10 HP or 2 ability damage healed.

Half-Dead Horror (Ex): As Skaberen grow older and fight longer, they become ever more grisly visages of scars and fused flesh, at times having tumerous-seeming growths where wounds overlap with the scars of flesh from others. Owing to their all-but-dead nature, the lasting damage does nothing to truly harm them, instead making them resistant to further damage as the state of their flesh dwindles in importance, and their increasing distance from life renders them more resistant to harm living creatures of flesh are commonly vulnerable to.

At 5th level, a Skabaran gains Natural Armor equal to one plus their Constitution modifier (1+Con), as it becomes rarer for blows to strike anything harmful. Should they lack a Constitution modifier, they instead use their Wisdom modifier. At 11th level, they gain 25% Fortification, as the Light Fortification armor property, and gain a bonus equal to half their level to saves against Poison and Death Effects, due to fewer elements of their biology having any important role to their half-living state. At 17th level, their Fortification increases to 50% and they become immune to Poison and Death Effects, as what important parts they have left become more abnormal and harder to reach and their flesh becomes nothing but a means for them to act on the world.

Attentive Strikes (Ex): With a worsening sense of touch as nerves rot and the soul fits less and less, Skaberen often find themselves relying on their wits to know their limits. This offers some benefits as they grow used to knowing their limits intellectually instead of instinctively, allowing them to apply appropriate force much more often.

At 7th level, whenever a Skaberen uses their Reckless Force class feature and the roll is a success, they may make a DC 13+1/2 bonus Reflex save to notice how much force they need before they finish the action. If they succeed the save, the bonus offered by Reckless Force is reduced by their Intelligence modifier, to a minimum of the bonus needed to succeed the roll.

Aiding the Return (Su): As their abhorrent endurance matches and surpasses the Cadaver Golems they come to so strongly resemble, Skaberen learn to restore others to the same half-life many of them fall into, with little more than rumors and hearsay of veterans of a hundred battles and gnarled ancients who've lost sensation restoring others with only scars to show for it.

At 9th level, a Skaberen's understanding of healing with corpse-flesh advances to such a great degree that they can return the souls of others to their bodies, at the cost of losing their true life. With a DC 20+target's HD Heal check in a process lasting two hours and requiring them to restore all of the creature's health as if with their Stitcher-Surgeon feature, they can revive a person as if with Raise Dead with CL equal to their Skaberen level. If the check succeeds, then the target loses two levels and gains a level of Skaberen, with an Association level of their choice connected to a class they possess or their race. If the check fails, then they return as a Construct or Undead instead of their original type, losing half their levels or hit dice and replacing them with racial hit dice of their new type and a single Skaberen level. Additionally, the Skaberen can retrain Skaberen with less levels than them in the lesser Skaberen's other classes, and into Skaberen levels at one per day instead of one per week and with one third the normal GP cost.

At 19th level, succeeding the check instead restores the target as if with Resurrection, with a CL equal to the user's Skaberen level, and a failed check acts as if it were a successful check for the 9th level version of the feature, as their knowledge of healing with corpse-flesh is functionally absolute.

The revived person obviously has the Skaberen present to provide retraining in Skaberen levels at the discounted and accelerated rate. Party members will usually be within one or two levels of the Skaberen, bar egregious LA stacking or overly frequent revival, so failing the check means long downtime and a pile of gold to recover lost levels and being stuck as a Construct (not really a problem when you have no RHD!) or a relatively fast rebuild as a Skaberen with a large discount. That's also a Construct. With all the immunities that comes with.

Endless Perseverance (Su): Legends tell of cadaverous giants, immune to all but the darkest and most powerful of soul-slaying and mind-binding spells, utterly unable to be slain in combat as their dead flesh channels a soul older than any nation alive today for its power. What not even the faintest rumor speaks of is that such tales are of the oldest Skaberen, who wear faces as masks and own crypts to store the bones of horrors from bygone eras, in the days when they acted as lords of the battlefield.

At 20th level, a Skaberen becomes immune to Mind Affecting Effects cast from any plane other than the Ethereal, as their soul's relation to anything on the material plane becomes untraceable to even the strongest of spells. Additionally, whenever they die, they persist as a Ghost (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghost.htm) and may make a DC 50 Heal check to attach any soul, including their own, to any corpse, acting as True Resurrection with a caster level equal to their level in Skaberen, while they are a Ghost. On a failed check, the corpse animates as a Skeleton of the corpse's kind.

[Alabenson]

I'll put my vote to Everyday Heroes as well.

[sengmeng]

Wow, memes got outvoted hard. May I suggest, somewhat selfishly, that the title be "Hey, I know that guy"? That would capture the idea of everyday heroes, but my idea for a meme class could be adapted as well.

[rferries]

Wow, memes got outvoted hard. May I suggest, somewhat selfishly, that the title be "Hey, I know that guy"? That would capture the idea of everyday heroes, but my idea for a meme class could be adapted as well.

Sounds good to me, and it's broad enough that it doesn't really restrict the brewing options.

[sengmeng]

Sounds good to me, and it's broad enough that it doesn't really restrict the brewing options.

Is the champ's word law? I'm going to start working on my entry either way.

[rferries]

Is the champ's word law? I'm going to start working on my entry either way.

Oh uh no haha! I can't be trusted with that kind of power :D

[sengmeng]

I've tried to reach Temotei and got no response. I hope he's okay. If no one objects, I'll put up the next contest thread by Monday.

[Jormengand]

Thread! Yay, thread!

Also, has scienceJormengand gone too far? :smalltongue:

[rferries]

I've tried to reach Temotei and got no response. I hope he's okay. If no one objects, I'll put up the next contest thread by Monday.

Thanks!


Thread! Yay, thread!

Also, has scienceJormengand gone too far? :smalltongue:

One can never go too far - that's why the Far Realm has infinite levels. :D The Wanderer looks like it'll be exciting!

Humble Hero is up (not a great name, I admit).

[ShiningStarling]

Thread! Yay, thread!

Also, has scienceJormengand gone too far? :smalltongue:

Only if round the bend is too far :smallwink:

[Alabenson]

Well, I've completed the Rescuer class, and I have a few ideas for AFCs I might add.

[sengmeng]

The Knower of Things is up. Note: I dont actually watch Game of Thrones

[Jormengand]

So, apart from the fact that the build point values in the table are still placeholders (I'll work them out, promise!), the wanderer is done. Plzrate+comment. Tell me if you think any of the build point costs are crazy, or if you'd like to see psionics/truespeak/whatever as options for the wanderer.

[sengmeng]

Well yesterday was given as the final day for submitting/editing. Does everyone feel ready?

[Jormengand]

Well yesterday was given as the final day for submitting/editing. Does everyone feel ready?

Ready for anything! And if I can make a class that can be anything in that time, well, what's anyone else's excuse? :smalltongue:

[rferries]

Good luck everyone, and I hope you're all having a fun summer weekend!

[sengmeng]

Ready for anything! And if I can make a class that can be anything in that time, well, what's anyone else's excuse? :smalltongue:

You were still looking for a PEACH, though. So was I. I probably won't make the a voting thread until Monday anyway, so feel free to edit til then.

[Jormengand]

I guess I can get some quick PEACHing done:

Humble Hero: Improved competence is pointless because if you're rushed or threatened, there's no way you can afford to spend 20 times as long on a task as normal. Destiny is rarely useful; it wouldn't be overpowered to grant the fulfilled version at level 1 (the regular version provides, on average, a +0.45 bonus to all d20 rolls; the fulfilled version a +0.95 and an improved threat range by 1). Fortune's grace is probably too good on someone with all high saves in the first place - it was fine on paladin because it didn't provide the bonus to AC, the paladin didn't have all high saves, and the paladin needs wisdom, strength and constitution. Determination is probably okay but improved determination makes you near-immune to a lot of stuff. Teamwork feat is oddly worded - it's clear enough what it's meant to mean but you could stand to reword it so that allies are only treated as having the feat for as long as they adventure with you, rather than actually granting the feat and taking it away when they leave. As written, people don't get the feat on joining your party. Inspiration is too strong: it's roughly the effects of ten different minor marshal auras stacked on top of each other - and the marshal only gets one of the minor auras active at a time. All of the fire-forged friends benefits are exceptionally useful, and giving people spells a level early is really, really powerful, and also cohorts are almost always OP. Mythical relies a lot on DM fiat but could be quite powerful, well maybe?

Rescuer: Functionally-unconditional extra damage of that calibre is pretty strong (especially since dealing nonlethal damage to enemies is usually just as good as dealing lethal damage to them even if you want them dead because CdGs exist). Medical training fails to make the heal skill worthwhile before 14th level.

Knower of Things: This class is just weird because it seems to be based around taking a single quotation excessively literally. In any case, dead levels are bad (at 15th level, you get a grand total of +1 to reflex and that's it) so maybe handle that.

[Alabenson]

Rescuer: Functionally-unconditional extra damage of that calibre is pretty strong (especially since dealing nonlethal damage to enemies is usually just as good as dealing lethal damage to them even if you want them dead because CdGs exist). Medical training fails to make the heal skill worthwhile before 14th level.

My initial thought with subduing strikes was that it would be balanced out by the number of creatures that are outright immune to non-lethal damage, but I reviewed some of the numbers and I think you may have a point. As such, I've dropped the damage die for subduing strikes from a d6 to a d4.
As for Medical training, I reshuffled some of the lower level benefits, moving the AoO avoidance to 2nd level, moving the Rapid Heal check to 10th, and added the ability to grant creatures temp hp at 6th.

[rferries]

Humble Hero: Improved competence is pointless because if you're rushed or threatened, there's no way you can afford to spend 20 times as long on a task as normal. Destiny is rarely useful; it wouldn't be overpowered to grant the fulfilled version at level 1 (the regular version provides, on average, a +0.45 bonus to all d20 rolls; the fulfilled version a +0.95 and an improved threat range by 1). Fortune's grace is probably too good on someone with all high saves in the first place - it was fine on paladin because it didn't provide the bonus to AC, the paladin didn't have all high saves, and the paladin needs wisdom, strength and constitution. Determination is probably okay but improved determination makes you near-immune to a lot of stuff. Teamwork feat is oddly worded - it's clear enough what it's meant to mean but you could stand to reword it so that allies are only treated as having the feat for as long as they adventure with you, rather than actually granting the feat and taking it away when they leave. As written, people don't get the feat on joining your party. Inspiration is too strong: it's roughly the effects of ten different minor marshal auras stacked on top of each other - and the marshal only gets one of the minor auras active at a time. All of the fire-forged friends benefits are exceptionally useful, and giving people spells a level early is really, really powerful, and also cohorts are almost always OP. Mythical relies a lot on DM fiat but could be quite powerful, well maybe?

Thanks for the input! First a design note - the Hero was intended as a more passive character, tough/resistant but lacking BAB, spells, sneak attack, or anything that would put him at the forefront of combat. Instead, he's a good skillmonkey and more importantly greatly enhances his party members. With respect to power level the Hero is unusual, in that he's weak himself but can arguably advance the tiers of other classes.

Improved Competence - I worded this badly, rephrased now to take 20 at will, basically.

Destiny & Destiny Fulfilled - you're quite correct but for flavour reasons and since it messes with a core mechanic (the titular d20 mechanic, in fact!) I'll leave it in the diluted form.

Fortune's Grace & Determination - in keeping with the design, the Hero will survive most anything but remain in a support role.

Teamwork feats -thanks, reworded it a bit. Still bonus feats, much like a familiar or an ioun stone granting Alertness, but hopefully clearer.

Inspiration - certainly more powerful than a marshal or a bard song, but doesn't benefit the Hero himself (made that explicit).

Fire-Forged Friends- made the cohorts into a DM-approval option. The benefits are powerful but hopefully fun, and since they again rely on party cohesion/don't directly benefit the Hero it's hopefully acceptable.

Thanks again!

I suppose I should chip in with some feedback too, though at this late date I'm not sure it'll be useful. I may end up simply repeating this in the actual voting thread.

Wanderer- it's safe to say that this will qualify for 1st or 2nd place and probably some of the other awards too. The only worry is the complexity; players without total system mastery might prefer a pre-built class. The expanded spell lists in particular are a nice touch.

Professional - I love the Renown concept but it might need a bit of fine-tuning (did you mean ability bonus instead of skill bonus?). It's a pity you didn't get to flesh out the other sections, any chance you have it lying around waiting to be posted? :)

Rescuer - another support class, one that can hold its own too! They might benefit from an ability to damage creatures immune to nonlethal damage e.g. undead and constructs.

Knower of Things - Is there a mention of whether spells can remove the Intelligence damage? Realistically they should, but the mechanic may be broken if so. The feline of enterprise is probably game-breaking anyways though; a mug of ale is 4 cp, so 15 mugs x 4 cp (1 charge to activate avatar, 14 charges to use on feline) = 60 cp to guarantee a 1%-19% return on the investment. 60 cp is a pittance when you're getting hundreds and thousands of gold back on your initial investment of 100 gold.

[Lanth Sor]

Professional - I love the Renown concept but it might need a bit of fine-tuning (did you mean ability bonus instead of skill bonus?). It's a pity you didn't get to flesh out the other sections, any chance you have it lying around waiting to be posted? :)


Unfortunately, I got lost in character creation and totally forgot about my class/the contest. Yes, skill bonus was intended as your skill is what is granting the renown.
@sengmeng If possible I'd like to have an EXT as the date was previously moved from the 24th 11:59pm GMT -5.

[sengmeng]

@sengmeng If possible I'd like to have an EXT as the date was previously moved from the 24th 11:59pm GMT -5.
It wasn't, actually, but extension granted.

[Lanth Sor]

I modified my date request so the rest of the sentence didnt make sense :D oops.

[Lanth Sor]

Contest Thread: Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?558705-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXIII-Hey-I-Know-That-Guy!&p=23072285#post23072285)

[rferries]

Contest Thread: Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?558705-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXIII-Hey-I-Know-That-Guy!&p=23072285#post23072285)

Woohoo! You work quickly. Are we all ready to submit the contest?

[Lanth Sor]

I noticed the tread hadn't been linked but I need to at least complete 6 professions.

I'd like some review of the magnum opuses as for balance concerns.

[rferries]

I noticed the tread hadn't been linked but I need to at least complete 6 professions.

I'd like some review of the magnum opuses as for balance concerns.

The Magnum Opuses don't seem game-breaking, apart from the soldier (replacing your saves, attack rolls, damage rolls,etc with automatic 20's or higher). You missed the aristocrat too (copy-pasted from alchemist).

[Lanth Sor]

The Magnum Opuses don't seem game-breaking, apart from the soldier (replacing your saves, attack rolls, damage rolls,etc with automatic 20's or higher). You missed the aristocrat too (copy-pasted from alchemist).

Aristocrat has no work done.

Soldier does what I want it to do but I want to find a happy medium of how much it can use it. The idea is being like FMA Wrath with his eye open or the Taskmaster.

Thoughts are to make it a once per round thing, make it a hard minute/day in 1 round increments, or maybe add a greater tax like it applies 1 con drain per round.

Updated to have harder tax.

[Lanth Sor]

Last minute, hope it doesn't suck.

[Alabenson]

Just out of curiosity, what's the procedure for nominating themes for the next contest?

[rferries]

Just out of curiosity, what's the procedure for nominating themes for the next contest?

None really, make as many suggestions as you like and see if they appeal.

[Alabenson]

None really, make as many suggestions as you like and see if they appeal.

Sounds good. Well, after flipping through random articles on Wikipedia for inspiration I've come up with a few ideas;

Water/sailing
School
Sports
Underground
Weather

[Jormengand]

I swear that I end up in charge of, like, everything. Voting thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?562550-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXIII-Voting-Thread).

[Temotei]

Sincere apologies, everyone. Real life finally caught up to me too much to be super active and things aren't looking good in that regard for the near future. I may be able to vote in the voting threads, though, and if someone wants to take over the contests, I can copy-paste the table in the first post of this thread and noparse it so that person can keep up on the contest archives without falling too far behind.

Otherwise, I've been 'brewing in what happy spare time I have, so I'll be posting that outside of this thread, and if a theme comes by that I like, I may be able to whip something up. We'll see. Unlikely, but maybe, depending on how much exactly is on my plate in the next month or two.

Anyway, good luck all...and again, sorry for the delay and absence. Too easy to forget things when stuff has you busy.

[rferries]

Sincere apologies, everyone. Real life finally caught up to me too much to be super active and things aren't looking good in that regard for the near future. I may be able to vote in the voting threads, though, and if someone wants to take over the contests, I can copy-paste the table in the first post of this thread and noparse it so that person can keep up on the contest archives without falling too far behind.

Otherwise, I've been 'brewing in what happy spare time I have, so I'll be posting that outside of this thread, and if a theme comes by that I like, I may be able to whip something up. We'll see. Unlikely, but maybe, depending on how much exactly is on my plate in the next month or two.

Anyway, good luck all...and again, sorry for the delay and absence. Too easy to forget things when stuff has you busy.

What is this "real life" you speak of? Everyone knows there is nothing beyond the forum. /jk

Seriously though, no worries and thanks for hosting the earlier contests! Plus Jorm is revelling in their new powers haha.

P.S. Jorm and Temotei, I think the Imgur scandal nabbed your avatars too. :(

[sengmeng]

Sincere apologies, everyone. Real life finally caught up to me too much to be super active and things aren't looking good in that regard for the near future. I may be able to vote in the voting threads, though, and if someone wants to take over the contests, I can copy-paste the table in the first post of this thread and noparse it so that person can keep up on the contest archives without falling too far behind.

Otherwise, I've been 'brewing in what happy spare time I have, so I'll be posting that outside of this thread, and if a theme comes by that I like, I may be able to whip something up. We'll see. Unlikely, but maybe, depending on how much exactly is on my plate in the next month or two.

Anyway, good luck all...and again, sorry for the delay and absence. Too easy to forget things when stuff has you busy.

Just glad you're okay.

[Temotei]

It took me a little over an hour of free time cobbled together to read everyone's entries except for the wanderer.

Gods, Jorm. You are something else. In a good way, from what I've read so far. :smallamused::smalltongue:

I hope I can finish reading it in time.

[Heavenblade]

hello. I really want to join thie contest...from what I understood the current challenge is the life and death thing, right? If not, where do I find it? thanks a lot!

[Alabenson]

hello. I really want to join thie contest...from what I understood the current challenge is the life and death thing, right? If not, where do I find it? thanks a lot!

Actually, life and death was the previous contest. The current contest is everyday heroes, however the deadline for entries has closed and we're currently in the voting phase (the thread for which can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?562550-Base-Class-Contest-XXXXIII-Voting-Thread)), which is scheduled to end this Friday baring any extensions.

[Heavenblade]

thanks! is there any thread that I can check for constant updates? when a contest begins, the subject, etc.

[rferries]

This thread, actually! If you're interested, there's also a 3.5 Prestige Class contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?559742-Prestige-Class-Contest-Thread-IV-This-could-be-Heaven-or-Hell) thread and chat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?539241-Prestige-Class-Contest-Chat-Thread-I) thread.

[sengmeng]

thanks! is there any thread that I can check for constant updates? when a contest begins, the subject, etc.

Usually the first post in this thread has that information, but we're in the middle of handing over administration of the contest from Temotei to Jormengand, with a brief flirtation with the idea of me doing it.

[Temotei]

Usually the first post in this thread has that information, but we're in the middle of handing over administration of the contest from Temotei to Jormengand, with a brief flirtation with the idea of me doing it.

For now, I've updated the first post and my signature.

[Lanth Sor]

On the Professional I'll repost and open for suggestions as I agree its functional, but a lot of the classic professions are not represented.

[Alabenson]

On the Professional I'll repost and open for suggestions as I agree its functional, but a lot of the classic professions are not represented.

I'll be very interested to see what you come up with once you have a chance to flesh out the Professional a bit more.

As for the Rescuer, I'm thinking of making a few changes to the level 6 Medical training ability. I'm thinking of changing the effect to regular healing instead of providing temporary hp, but dropping the DC to 20, allowing a give character to benefit from the healing 1/hour instead of 1/day and allowing for increased amounts of healing for every 10 points by which the DC is beaten (so 3x the class level at DC 30, 4x at 40 and so on).

[Jormengand]

Congrats to people who have done the thing with the points and the winning; please suggest themes, promise I'll be awake enough to run this in a moment.

[rferries]

Hope things are going better! My suggestions:

Fairy Tales
Mythology (Classical or otherwise)
Science Fiction
Underwater Campaigns
Underground Campaigns
Monstrous Campaigns

[Lanth Sor]

Votes
1. Fairy Tale
2. Myth

[Alabenson]

Eh, we did fairy tales and mythology a while ago (that was actually the first contest I participated in). My vote goes to Underground