View Full Version : Do Kobolds like Dragonborn?

2017-07-05, 07:32 AM
I had an interesting idea, where there is a Dragonborn, and yet he's got a cadre of Kobold as his helpers due to the fact he is related to a dragon. But is that really true that Kobolds like Dragonborn?

2017-07-05, 07:48 AM
You didn't specify which setting. But I remember in most generic D&D interations, kobolds are related to the chromatic dragons, while dragonborn are to metallic dragons. So they are really distant relatives.

Could still work together under certain circumstances though, why not.

If in your settings there are kobolds for metallic dragons or dragonborns for chromatic dragons, the chance they will cooperate would increase I guess.

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-07-05, 07:51 AM
It might depend on the individual dragonborn, but they do have some advantages in winning over kobolds. Kobolds I think tend to be a bit racist, like most d&d races, and prefer dealing with other reptilians or sometimes goblinoids over for instance humans. Anything that looks a bit like them has the first foot in the door. Their home language is draconic, which dragonborn speak. Aside from liking everything about dragons they have a certain respect for power in general, while dragonborn are big and strong and few things say "power" like frying someone with your breath like a mighty dragon. So yeah, I could see that.

Mark Hall
2017-07-05, 09:31 AM
Also worth noting that most versions of Dragonborn include a Charisma bonus.

2017-07-05, 09:37 AM
In Arcana Evolved, there's a transformational race ("Mojh") which are basically humans who have magically turned themselves into fire-breathing dragon-like people, with an aptitude for magic.

In Arcana Evolved, the Mojh become asexual (just like 3.5e Dragonborn). An asexual Mojh can't breed, of course, but it can "bud". A bud grows into a Kobold, who tends to serve his or her progenitor.

Therefore: maybe Dragonborn are the origin of Kobolds.

2017-07-05, 10:18 AM
I would guess it depends how you serve them.

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-07-05, 10:35 AM
I would guess it depends how you serve them.

This is not what I meant by "Puny kobolds, you will serve me!"!

Mark Hall
2017-07-05, 11:18 AM
This is not what I meant by "Puny kobolds, you will serve me!"!

How exactly do you cook a red or gold dragonborn?

2017-07-05, 11:22 AM
How exactly do you cook a red or gold dragonborn?

Lemon juice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceviche).

2017-07-05, 12:00 PM
How exactly do you cook a red or gold dragonborn?

Dragonborn are basically humanoid dragons, right?
Since dragons are basically fish sushi might be a option.
Curing and/or smoking it might work too.

And white dragon meat would be good as a ingredient for a sorbet.

2017-07-06, 01:51 AM
Lemon juice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceviche).

As a trained chef, this made me lol. Then wonder how much lemon juice i'd need.

If your DM allows for acid enspelled weaponry, see if he'll go for lemon juice enspelled. Then your enemy will be cooked by the time youre sheathed. So long as you cut them into many, many, thin slices.

2017-07-06, 02:16 AM
As a trained chef, this made me lol. Then wonder how much lemon juice i'd need.

If your DM allows for acid enspelled weaponry, see if he'll go for lemon juice enspelled. Then your enemy will be cooked by the time youre sheathed. So long as you cut them into many, many, thin slices.

When life gives you lemons, cook a dragon alive.

2017-07-06, 07:42 AM
Do kobolds like anyone?

Red Fel
2017-07-06, 08:38 AM
Do kobolds like anyone?

In 3.5 (since the OP didn't specify, I'm gonna go with what I know) Kobolds basically only like Kobolds. Everything else falls somewhere on the Hate-Fear spectrum. Most Humanoid races fall under the former, while anything dramatically bigger and more powerful than Kobolds (i.e. Dragons) falls under the latter. Fear, for Kobolds, is divided into two parts: "Run before it kills us all" fear, and "Grovel and obey" fear. Dragons get the latter.

As mentioned above, Kobolds traditionally tend to affiliate more with the Evil Chromatic Dragons, in part because Evil Dragons like having pathetic mewling minions that grovel and obey. Good Dragons, by contrast, tend to refrain from becoming tyrants. However, one of the books (I forget which) suggested that some of the more sociable Metallic Dragons might be willing to "adopt" or "civilize" an otherwise unaffiliated warren of Kobolds, which would lead to a rare Good-aligned Kobold settlement.

Dragonborn in 3.5 aren't so much a pre-existing race as they are the chosen of the Metallic Dragon god Bahamut, reborn from their prior forms into a more Draconic shape. As a rule, Draconic or Dragon-related creatures can recognize that. Chromatic Dragons, sworn enemies of Bahamut, typically won't be positively inclined towards Bahamut's chosen. By extension, any Kobolds in service to a Chromatic Dragon would probably be hostile towards Dragonborn. Unaffiliated Kobolds would probably be at least cautiously inquisitive; certainly not friendly, but not necessarily openly hostile, provided they didn't feel threatened. And the rare Metallic-affiliated Kobolds would probably recognize that a Dragonborn was the chosen of Bahamut, and immediately default to "Grovel and obey" mode, because Dragons are powerful, and Bahamut is the most powerful, and this guy was claw-picked by Bahamut so he must be really powerful.

Now, as to the original idea of a Dragonborn having his own following of Kobolds, I think the answer in this context is "It depends." Kobolds are typically not adventurers, at least not as a group - they like to settle in one place, ideally around a powerful ally (ideally a Dragon), dig, lay traps, and procreate abundantly. So a Dragonborn with a lair or cave or castle could probably get a group of likeminded Kobolds with the promise of his protection. But a Dragonborn on the move - as most Dragonborn are - would be hard-pressed to find an entire group of Kobolds willing to uproot and wander. He might find one or two, but most would rather stay at home, where it's safe and the procreation is plentiful.

2017-07-06, 10:42 AM
Nope. It comes down to meta problems. For the early days of D&D, kobolds were just pathetic trash to get wiped out by adventurers of all but the very first level (and weren't too hard for those either). The 2e Player's Handbook even considers the idea of a dragon associated with a horde of kobolds to be implausible (when it outlined what is and what is not a believable illusion), because the kobolds were just that weak and pathetic.
Then 3rd edition comes around, and from the tagline that kobold leaders tend to be sorcerers comes a whole mess of kobold-dragon associations that grow increasingly overt and increasingly powerful. No longer are kobolds mere cannon fodder with dim, unrealistic aspirations to greater things; no, instead, they are the larval forms of something greater, awaiting a destiny of draconic apotheosis. They are the true heirs of dragonkind, the closest to them. This is a worthy state for them.
But these dragonborn coming around? Humanoid dragons, larger, stronger, smarter, more magical by default? Those are threats to this state. The kobolds see dragonborn and see themselves being relegated to 1st-level adventures again. They grow jealous of the dragonborn, and hate them.

2017-07-06, 11:08 AM
Going by 5e knowledge, I find kobolds to be an interesting lot.

First, we have Meepo and Yusdrayl from that edition's adaptation of The Sunless Citadel.http://orig00.deviantart.net/7b2f/f/2017/105/6/f/meepo_web_by_olgadrebas-db5vuf3.jpghttp://orig03.deviantart.net/e9eb/f/2017/103/9/1/yusdrayl_web_by_olgadrebas-db5o357.jpgThese two aren't hostile to the PCs, not even verbally, if the PCs aren't hostile to them or other kobolds. You can really empathize with them as pillars of their community, one Keeper of Dragons, the other a draconic sorcerer and leader of the clan.

At the same time, they are pathetic. Meepo had the one wyrmling to take care of (A dragon raised by kobolds? Interesting) and now that she has been stolen he is just a kobold with numerous scars and zero respect for it. Plus, he thinks the PCs can bring her back if he accompanies them, but in fact he becomes the wyrmling's first target. Ouch! As for Yusdrayl, the picture speaks for itself, she is a queen of beggars. Well, you do with what you have, including the pride of being the draconiest of a draconish people.

I guess the "LE society" angle comes from Meepo hitting rock bottom and Yusdrayl not doing much to help the little guy beyond letting him go with the PCs. I wonder if she knows he will be a tasty distraction at best.Then there is the bits in the Monster Manual and Volo's Guide to Monsters about "urds", or winged kobolds. You would think the birth of an urd would be great news in a kobold tribe, much like the reveal of a draconic sorcerer. But no, kobolds found a way to link urds to an enemy of Tiamat, and thus regard them as a bad thing.

As for dragonborn, they now come in all colors, shiny or not. And as the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide proclaims, they are of "uncertain origins". One legend says that when Io was split from head to tail, his halves soon to be reborn as Bahamut and Tiamat, "droplets of Io's blood, spattered across the world, became the first dragonborn".

So to somewhat answer the thread, I think relationships between kobolds and dragonborn would start with a theological debate and likely end with flaming, or possibly frosty, death!

2017-07-06, 12:30 PM
In 5e too, it might also depend. For example Kobolds hate Urds because they are jealous of the Urds for having wings and thus being closer to dragons, while not really being dragons.

So a 5 kobold might feel extremely resentment and hatefull of a dragonborn.