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Logic
2007-08-07, 09:52 PM
After having played Final Fantasy Tacitics: Advance, there are several species there that I think would make fine additions to any game. Particularily: Nu Mou
Bangaa
Moogle


I am sure someone has homebrewed these guys before, can anyone point me in the direction of them, or tell me they are currently working on them?

Kjata
2007-08-07, 10:01 PM
Heres the moogle:

Take a halfling.
Let it fly short distances.

Nu
2007-08-07, 10:59 PM
I'm sure they've already been made, but hell, I'm bored so I'll make them right here.

Nu Mou

-2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence.
Medium: As Medium creatures, nu mou have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Nu mou base land speed is 30 ft.
Studious: All Knowledge skills are considered class skills for nu mou, no matter which class levels they possess.
+2 racial bonus to all Knowledge, Decipher Script, and Spellcraft checks.
+2 racial bonus to saving throws against enchantment spells or effects.
+1 racial bonus to ranged touch attack rolls, like those made with rays.
Automatic Languages: Common and Nu Mou. Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages(such as Druidic).
Favored Class: Wizard.


Bangaa

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence.
Medium: As Medium creatures, bangaa have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Bangaa base land speed is 30 ft.
Scent: Bangaa have the Scent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent) special ability.
Weapon Proficiency: Bangaa receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, glaive, and greatsword.
Hardiness: A bangaa has a 30% chance to stabilize while dying instead of a 10% chance. Characters attempting to stabilize a bangaa with the Heal skill receive a +2 circumstance bonus to their skill check.
Lizardkin: A bangaa may speak with any reptilian animal as if under the effects of the Speak with Animals spell.
+2 racial bonus to all Strength checks, including those made in grapple, bull rush, or trip attempts.
+2 racial bonus to Survival and Listen checks, the bonus to Survival increases to +4 for tracking by scent. -2 racial penalty to Spot and Search checks.
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against non-reptilian humanoids.
Languages: Common and Draconic. Bonus Languages: Giant, Goblin, Orc, Terran.
Favored Class: Fighter.


Moogle

-2 Strength, +2 Charisma.
Small: As a Small creature, a moogle gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
Moogle base land speed is 20 ft.
+4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when itís caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too.
+2 racial bonus to saving throws vs. mind-affecting spells and spell-like abilities.
+2 racial bonus to Bardic Knowledge checks.
+2 racial bonus to Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, and Perform checks.
Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against enchantment spells cast by moogles. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects.
Languages: Common and Moogle. Bonus Languages: Any, except secret languages(such as Druidic).
Favored Class: Bard.


Moogle Flight Feat
Prerequisites
Moogle, ECL 3+

Effect
A moogle who selects this feat gains the ability to fly, and has a base flight speed of 30 feet with good maneuverability.

Blackdrop
2007-08-07, 11:03 PM
You know, I don't think Moogles can actually do anything other than hover with their wings. I've played most of the games and I've never seen them do more than that.

Nu
2007-08-07, 11:09 PM
It's implied they can fly great distances in FFIX, I believe. With Mognet and all. I don't recall if we ever actually saw them flying overland, but that seems the most plausible theory for how they travel.

Lapak
2007-08-08, 10:07 AM
It's implied they can fly great distances in FFIX, I believe. With Mognet and all. I don't recall if we ever actually saw them flying overland, but that seems the most plausible theory for how they travel.But Mog in FFVI is in danger of death from falling off of a cliff, IIRC. That doesn't reconcile with flying Moogles.

Morty
2007-08-08, 10:18 AM
Nu: I don't know a single thing about Final Fantasy, but Nu Mou seem quite overpowered. They ought to have another stat penalty. Two other races are strong, but not overpowered, I think.

Fax Celestis
2007-08-08, 11:20 AM
But Mog in FFVI is in danger of death from falling off of a cliff, IIRC. That doesn't reconcile with flying Moogles.

Mog is rather pudgy around the middle too. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Korias
2007-08-08, 11:47 AM
But Mog in FFVI is in danger of death from falling off of a cliff, IIRC. That doesn't reconcile with flying Moogles.

Different Game, Different Moogles. Its like how theirs a different Cid in every game.

Nu
2007-08-08, 11:52 PM
Nu: I don't know a single thing about Final Fantasy, but Nu Mou seem quite overpowered. They ought to have another stat penalty. Two other races are strong, but not overpowered, I think.

Typically, the rules for custom races said that one physical attribute was worth two mental attributes...but you're probably right. I could reign in one of the stat adjustments and give it a few other things to compensate.

Maybe Moogles should be able to hover, say, 5-10 feet off the ground for a certain amount of time per day?

Setra
2007-08-09, 01:07 AM
It's implied they can fly great distances in FFIX, I believe. With Mognet and all. I don't recall if we ever actually saw them flying overland, but that seems the most plausible theory for how they travel.
Actually, you do see them fly.

When you save. The moogle would fly in from out of nowhere.

"I'm sharpening my knife Kupo"

TheOOB
2007-08-09, 01:20 AM
Like chocobo and blue magic, what moogle can and cannot do varies between games. In FFTA, for example, moogles defiantly cannot fly, but in other games they sometimes possess that ability.

DeskChairLamp
2007-08-09, 08:08 AM
Bangaa

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence.
Medium: As Medium creatures, bangaa have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Bangaa base land speed is 30 ft.
Low-Light Vision: A bangaa can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Weapon Proficiency: Bangaa receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the greataxe, handaxe, battleaxe, and throwing axe.
Hardiness: A bangaa has a 30% chance to stabilize while dying instead of a 10% chance. Characters attempting to stabilize a bangaa with the Heal skill receive a +2 circumstance bonus to their skill check.
Lizardkin: A bangaa may speak with any reptilian animal as if under the effects of the Speak with Animals spell.
+2 racial bonus to all Strength checks, including those made in grapple, bull rush, or trip attempts.
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against non-reptilian humanoids.
Languages: Common and Draconic. Bonus Languages: Giant, Goblin, Orc, Terran.
Favored Class: Fighter.




There's no actual use of axes in the game, so I don't see it being remarkably accurate to give Bangaa free proficiency. If anything, that's simply placing them in the generic 'brutes use axes' kind of classification. Free proficiency with greatswords and longswords would better reflect them, seeing as Defenders and Gladiators use those weapons.

SKarious
2007-08-09, 08:23 AM
Shouldn't Muggles get some "machinery skill" bonus? Many moogles are gunners/machinists/airship pilots. And maybe a "slow fall" or "glide" instead of full flight?

StickMan
2007-08-09, 08:23 AM
Typically, the rules for custom races said that one physical attribute was worth two mental attributes...but you're probably right. I could reign in one of the stat adjustments and give it a few other things to compensate.

Maybe Moogles should be able to hover, say, 5-10 feet off the ground for a certain amount of time per day?

That is old school thinking. If I can take a -2 to a physical and get two mental +2s then I'd take it. Come on now we all have learned that the stats that control spell casting are more powerful than the states that control how you fight.

Nightgaunt
2007-08-09, 08:52 AM
This is how I pictured a Bangaa to be, let me know your thoughts. This is the LA+1 version, in fact thinking about each of them it may be possible to make +1 versions. It is basically a Dwarf/Half-Giant combo with a smidgen of Dragon to make up for lack of Powers. Racial Hatred could be dropped if this is slightly too strong for +1 LA.


Bangaa
Strength +2, Constitution +2
Medium: As Medium creatures, bangaa have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Bangaa base land speed is 20 ft. However, bangaa can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Dragon Type:
Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.
Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects.

Powerful Build (Ex)
The physical stature of bangaas lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a bangaa is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the bangaa is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A bangaa is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creatureís special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A bangaa can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subjectís size category.
Racial Hatred (Ex)
Bangaa can not stand the thought of any other race but their own, and gain a +1 to damage on all physical attacks to all Non-bangaa humanoids.
LA: +1

Xefas
2007-08-09, 10:11 AM
I think Nu's are pretty good.

However, I'd take away the +1 bonus to touch attacks from the Nu Mou, since I don't see a reason for their race to be especially good at touching others and the bonus to rays is good enough already. Second, I'd give Bangaa free proficiency with glaives and longswords instead of all the axes. As for the Moogle, I'm wondering why they have a bonus to Bluff and Handle Animal. They aren't particularly devious as a race, and they aren't even allowed to take any animal oriented classes (Beastmaster, Morpher, Hunter?). In addition, a minus to strength seems more appropriate than constitution, considering even their most martial class (The Mog Knight) leaves something to be desired in upper body strength.

Nu
2007-08-09, 05:06 PM
I've made adjustments based on the suggestions given.

Though on the handle animal thing, Moogles did have access to the "Animist" class in FFTA, though it was the Nu Mou who had Beastmaster, Morpher, etc.

JackMage666
2007-08-09, 05:15 PM
Pretty sure those are all +1 LA races...

Nu Mou are borderline, though... They seem too strong for +0 LA, but a bit weak as +1 LA.

Bangaa get the whole +2 on Str, with +2 on all Str checks, and a +1 attack vs all humanoids (easily the most common enemy). Even so, they're a tad weak as +1 LA, but too strong as +0.

Moogles can Fly, at 30 ft, with Good manueverability. That is definately a +1 LA trait.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-08-09, 05:21 PM
Note on the Moogles: Being able to fly is generally worth a +1 or +2 LA all by itself, because it does all kinds of stuff to tactical combat and a lot of other stock D&D scenarios. There are a few options:

1. Just give them a +1 LA, and they should be fine. Maybe +2.
2. Planetouched Style: Make it so Moogles have to take a Moogle-only feat to be able to use their wings, like the Outsider Wings feat from Races of Faerun. I believe that feat may have had a prerequisite as well. This is probably the best option, as it explains why some Moogles can fly and others can't.
3. Raptoran Style: Moogles can't use their wings for full flight until they reach 5 HD or class levels. Before that, they can only glide. This is explained in detail in Races of the Wild.
4. And this is just an idea I had...reducing their flight to 20'/Clumsy or something would make it significantly less powerful. Or at least, almost entirely useless for combat.

JackNinja666'd!

Xefas
2007-08-09, 09:35 PM
I say I'd let Bangaa and Nu Mou slide with no LA if the game was starting at about level 3 or over, since a +1 to hit or damage becomes less of a deal later on (whereas a LA is crippling forever if there's no buyout...and even then...). However, I agree that Moogles should have their flight taken away and then have a feat added that is Moogle-specific that gives them a fly speed.

Nu
2007-08-09, 09:57 PM
All right, I'll add in the flight feat with an ECL 3+ requirement.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-08-10, 10:00 PM
Ugh, what, What? Bangaas have *terrible* vision. Here, let me take a shot at this- Probably not the most balanced, but...

Hume- AKA Humans, no help needed here except, apparently, they are the only race capable of two-handed fighting. (Maybe Ambidexterity as a racial feat?)

Bangaa-

Big, Burly, bulky, brawly bipeds- Bangaas are often seen as a race that is low in intelligence and high on belligerence, only the latter is true.

Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Stat Modifiers- +4 Strength, +2 Con, -2 dex
Racial Traits-

Mumbly: Due to the way a Bangaa's mouth works, they cannot properly form arcane verbal components. A Bangaa cannot cast an Arcane spell with a verbal component unless he uses the "Silent Spell" feat or similiar effects. However, they can still speak well enough to properly recite the prayers and litanies needed for Divine Casting without restrictions.

Poor Vision- Bangaas have terrible eyesight. -4 to all spot checks, and they cannot make out details through vision alone without some serious appraisal gear.

Blindsight- Bangaas are gifted with incredible senses of smell, hearing, and some vibration sensing- They can function equally well, if not better, when not trying to use their eyes. They all have Blindsight 60.


Moogle-

When they're not busy sharpening their knives, Kupo, Moogles are cute, cuddly, and often congenial. They're cute, intelligent, Quite diverse, and should never be left alone with anything remotely valuable or shiny.

Small Adorable Humanoid
Land Speed- 30
Fly speed- 30 (Good)

-2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Dex

Racial traits,
Tiny Wings- a Moogle may not use his fly speed when wearing medium or heavy armor, or carrying more than a light load.

Crafty: Moogles gain +2 on any Disable Divice, Use Magic Device, Sleight of Hand, and Knowledge (Technology or engineering) Checks.

Cute: Moogles gain a +2 "Daww" on Diplomacy checks, but incur -2 to Intimidate checks


No Mou-

The Mysterious Spellcasting Race. They look kinda like Eeyore...
Small Hippo-Donkey Humanoid
-2 STR, CON, DEX, +2 WIS, INT, CHA. For serious.
Move Speed- 20 Feet

No Mou gain +1 Spellcaster level, and always have Spellcraft and Use Magic Device as class skills.

Viera- Wood-dwelling amazon bunnygirls.... What else is there to them?

Medium CatBunnygirl
+2 Dex, +2 Wis

Viera always have Listen, Spot, Survival, Move Silently and Knowledge (Nature) as Class skills. Viera are proficient with bows and extremely light armor, and ALWAYS Female.

Nu
2007-08-10, 11:27 PM
I think several of yours are very, very overpowered(Viera are very underpowered) :P And I don't recall anything to suggest that bangaa had bad vision...I mean, they were able to be dragoons, and those guys had to have good vision for jumping and all.

Maybe I could reign in the Nu Mou race a bit by giving it +2 Wisdom instead of +2 Intelligence?

Eldritch_Ent
2007-08-11, 02:32 AM
Okay, ya got me, I'm no good at making races. :P They definitely deserve some +LA at least...

The whole Bangaas being almost blind was... Umm... Forgot where I heard that actually, but if you look close, a lot of their armor doesn't incorporate eye-holes. (Dragoons included, and Defenders and gladiators if I remember.) Plus a lot of them do the same thing in FF12...

I think it's mentioned in game somewhere... Maybe in one of those collectors books that sometime come with the game... Ahh forget it.

Nu
2007-08-11, 02:40 AM
The wikipedia entry for Ivalice says:


Bangaa possess great agility and strength, and acute senses of hearing and smell, making them excellent hunters and fighters. However, their eyesight is so poor that some wear blindfolds as part of their clothing.

So, yes. I think I'd replace the Low-Light Vision with the Scent ability, and give them a +2 to Listen checks and a -2 to Spot checks.

Nightgaunt
2007-08-11, 10:50 AM
Actually the reason I did that was completly un-bangaa related. I put them in the "Dragon" species which automatically gives them those two vision trees. A good edit would be removing that and giving them scent. What about making them blind and 60' blindsight?

Xefas
2007-08-11, 11:12 AM
Maybe I could reign in the Nu Mou race a bit by giving it +2 Wisdom instead of +2 Intelligence?

Considering they are equally good at white mage (wisdom), and black mage (intelligence), and their most powerful classes are Sage (wisdom) and Alchemist (intelligence), I think it'd make thematic sense to give them both a +2 bonus to wisdom and intelligence.

However, this would put them into LA +1 range, which would make them totally unsuitable to be a spellcaster. So, either stick with the +2 intelligence/-2 dex, or an alternative could be -2str,-2dex,-2con/+2int,+2wis. This might also make sense because of the races generally low HP, low attack power, and low movement and speed.

Also, I've been working on a Mog Knight and Templar racial prestige class. D'ya think I should make a thread and post them?

SkanMan
2007-08-11, 11:53 AM
ayo, im huge into FF and a little lacking in my knowledge of D&D (not to say ive never played before). but hey Xefas...

As for the Moogle, I'm wondering why they have a bonus to Bluff and Handle Animal. They aren't particularly devious as a race, and they aren't even allowed to take any animal oriented classes (Beastmaster, Morpher, Hunter?). In addition, a minus to strength seems more appropriate than constitution

The animal thing is because they are almost always associated with chocobos or other mounts, the player ioften put in a position in which he must talk to a mog/moogle in regards to 'animal' lore. next. Devious? in FF7 they run a casino
(the golden chocobo coincidentally), they are also shop keepers in many of the games, while these dont imply that all of the furry, white, winged creatures are all swindlers, it does imply that enough of them are to have that bonus.

Xefas
2007-08-11, 12:16 PM
ayo, im huge into FF and a little lacking in my knowledge of D&D (not to say ive never played before). but hey Xefas...

The animal thing is because they are almost always associated with chocobos or other mounts, the player ioften put in a position in which he must talk to a mog/moogle in regards to 'animal' lore. next. Devious? in FF7 they run a casino
(the golden chocobo coincidentally), they are also shop keepers in many of the games, while these dont imply that all of the furry, white, winged creatures are all swindlers, it does imply that enough of them are to have that bonus.

I disagree. Not with what you're saying, but with how it applies to this situation. We're discussing specifically the races of Ivalice (even more specifically, as it is protraying in FFTA, since thats what the OP wanted), so what a group of Moogles did in Final Fantasy 7 has little to do with it.

In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, there's one Moogle shopkeeper, who we have no reason to suspect is some kind of swindler, and the fact that Moogles can take the thief job. Which, so can humans, so that doesn't say much. Their association with chocobos (and animals period) is solely within the boundaries of the Animist job. And that is...well, lets say an odd job. Its more having to do with magic than animals, unless you'd like to explain how holding up a small sheep toy puts people to sleep via the power of the natural world.

SkanMan
2007-08-11, 12:26 PM
ooh...hmm...okay, you win, after reading some of the other entries on the thread, like references to the many cid's throughout the FF universe i assumed the stats would be based on the collective tendencies of the species throughout FF history, since these rules are based soley on FFTA i suppose that you'd be correct on that front, not tryin to be pretentious here

Xefas
2007-08-11, 12:33 PM
ooh...hmm...okay, you win, after reading some of the other entries on the thread, like references to the many cid's throughout the FF universe i assumed the stats would be based on the collective tendencies of the species throughout FF history, since these rules are based soley on FFTA i suppose that you'd be correct on that front, not tryin to be pretentious here

Well, now that I think about it, that's how we came to conclude Moogle flight. Now I'm kinda confused as to whether I am right or not. Maybe Nu will enlighten us, as he is the one posting the stats.

SkanMan
2007-08-11, 12:39 PM
word, theres four or five of us that are particularly gifted at creating these stats, perhaps logic should be the one to answer this quandry as he is the one who started this thread

Nu
2007-08-11, 04:05 PM
Well, I based my vision of the races more on a collective view of the races, drawing in several games for specific abilities and not bothering to make them entirely consistant with any one game.

I should note that the Animist had an ability called "Animal Friend" or something like that, and it could call animals in battle to help it with some abilities, so though it was magic I can see them close to animals in FFTA, and they sometimes are attuned with animals in other games too(in the first games they appeared in, FF3 and FF5, they lived in forests).

Eldritch_Ent
2007-08-11, 06:17 PM
Considering they are equally good at white mage (wisdom), and black mage (intelligence), and their most powerful classes are Sage (wisdom) and Alchemist (intelligence), I think it'd make thematic sense to give them both a +2 bonus to wisdom and intelligence.

However, this would put them into LA +1 range, which would make them totally unsuitable to be a spellcaster. So, either stick with the +2 intelligence/-2 dex, or an alternative could be -2str,-2dex,-2con/+2int,+2wis. This might also make sense because of the races generally low HP, low attack power, and low movement and speed.

I agree, which is why I figured they'd have a lower base speed (20 Feet), and poor Physical stats to make up for their powerful magic. (I come from the school of thought that "-2 = +2 in any other stat, whereas most people give the physical stats more "weight"...)

Although, come to think of it, +2 CHA Seems out of place- No Mou definitely don't strike me as the "Spontaneous spellcasting" sort...

While I'm at it, maybe Viera need some sort of "Speak with Nature" and/or "Sense Magic" ability...? They certainly can do that in the games, come to think of it...

Xefas
2007-08-11, 06:41 PM
I agree, which is why I figured they'd have a lower base speed (20 Feet), and poor Physical stats to make up for their powerful magic. (I come from the school of thought that "-2 = +2 in any other stat, whereas most people give the physical stats more "weight"...)

Although, come to think of it, +2 CHA Seems out of place- No Mou definitely don't strike me as the "Spontaneous spellcasting" sort...

While I'm at it, maybe Viera need some sort of "Speak with Nature" and/or "Sense Magic" ability...? They certainly can do that in the games, come to think of it...

My opinion is that Viera and Elves are so close mechanically (+dex, -con, automatic proficiency with bows+rapier, appropriate skill bonuses, low light vision) that if one were lazy, they could just slap the name Viera on an Elf, make them tall with big ears and female (if they were not already), and call it a day. However, the +2 versus enchantment and immunity to sleep effects doesn't fit Viera, so there is room for a little changing.

Thus, my idea of a well represented Viera would be an Elf minus the immunity to sleep and bonus versus enchantment, plus the ability to count one of their mental stats (chosen at creation) as 2 higher solely for the purpose of determining bonus spells. This would represent that, even though they aren't specially smart, wise, or awesome, that their race has a certain knack for casting (white mage, elementalist, red mage, SUMMONER).

Nu
2007-08-11, 07:03 PM
I agree, which is why I figured they'd have a lower base speed (20 Feet), and poor Physical stats to make up for their powerful magic. (I come from the school of thought that "-2 = +2 in any other stat, whereas most people give the physical stats more "weight"...)

Although, come to think of it, +2 CHA Seems out of place- No Mou definitely don't strike me as the "Spontaneous spellcasting" sort...

While I'm at it, maybe Viera need some sort of "Speak with Nature" and/or "Sense Magic" ability...? They certainly can do that in the games, come to think of it...

I don't think a race should have too many +2/-2's for a core race with no LA. Two or three adjustments seem like the best. Races should always be more general than they are specialized, and it shouldn't be all but impossible for a Nu Mou to take a physical class.

I don't really go with "Int = black magic Wis = white magic" line of thought. Instead, I merely go with Intelligence, as in how smart they are, and wisdom, as in how wise they are. After all, the magic system in the FF is a bit different than it is in DnD, as in FF, all spellcasters are 'spontaneous spellcasters', they don't have books they study magic from, they have a list of spells they know and can cast any spell from the list. So I merely put in +2 Intelligence to show that Nu Mou are smart, but since I've also given them the 'smart' stuff with the access to all Knowledge skills and bonuses to Knowledge checks, I could probably go with +2 Wisdom instead to show they're pretty wise.