A spellcasting homebrew.

[Logic]

Now, after having decided that casters in general are usually too powerful, the ideas I am eventually going to implement on a homebrew campaign setting will include the following rules for casters.
"Curse of the Magi" rule: A Caster must make a fortitude save (DC=10+level of the spell being cast) or become fatigued. If already fatigued, becomes exhausted. If already exhausted, becomes unconsious. If he fails by 10 or more, he moves 2 steps down the list.
One casting class. They would all be combined into a single class, and in order to get the special abilites of the druid, you would have to pick up a prestige class specific to the druid playstyle.
All the mental statistics are important to spellcasting, but in different areas.
The normal rule of "must have 10+spell level of X attribute in order to cast a spell of that level would be based upon schools or subschools. (Healing would be based upon wisdom, and blasting spells would be based on charisma, for example.)
Intellegence governs bonus spells known.
Wisdom governs bonus spells per day.
Charisma governs the most of the other abilities related to spells that are normally modified by an ability score.


Now, this gives spellcasters the problem of having Multiple Attribute Deficiency, but they would not be too terribly off if one of their attributes was not above average.

There are other tihngs I have not considered yet, so your feedback is welcome.

[Tor the Fallen]

How often does a spellcaster have to make a fortitude save or else become fatigued?

[LotharBot]

1) I assume you meant to put this in "homebrew"...

2) I like the MAD-for-spellcasting idea, though IMO it would work better as a 2-ability MAD rather than a 3-ability MAD. Maybe INT or WIS govern bonus spell slots and spells known for arcane/divine casters, and CHA governs saves for both? This way you could probably get an 18 and a 14 or something similar in your 2 prime stats. If you had to bring all 3 up, plus needing the standard CON and DEX boosts to stay alive, you'd be in a tough spot.

3) I also muchly like the schools/subschools being based on different attributes. Here, I wouldn't worry so much about 3-attribute MAD -- whichever attributes you crank up determine which spells you'll be good at casting.

4) The fatigue curse seems pretty rough on top of all the other modifications.

[The_Werebear]

Rather than having them become fatigued (Or even make fort saves, really) why not have them take subdual damage equal to the level, or twice the level of the spell cast? It fits the flavor of spells wearing the wizard down as they are cast, but doesn't force the need of four ability dependence (Constitution would become needed to prevent passing out after three spells).

[Paragon Badger]

A random chance for 1 constitution damage for every spell? With the chance increasing as the spell levels increase, perhaps?

Chance of taking 1 constitution damage at level 0 spell: 0%
Level 1: 1d100 (Take con damage on a 100 roll)
Level 2: 1d20
Level 3: 1d20
Level 4: 1d12
Level 5: 1d8
Level 6: 1d6
Level 7: 1d4
Level 8: 1d2
Level 9: 100%

Just throwing that out there. :-P

[tainsouvra]

So, going by just what was given here, a spellcaster with good Cha and ok Wiz could reasonably expect to know the key mid-level healing spells and any blasting spells he wanted. The spells-available approach isn't so much MAD as it is "Mystic Theurge without the caster-level loss", which strikes me as a pretty big buff. I don't think you're taking a reasonable approach to limiting spellcaster power, there, I think you're going to make them stronger once your players notice that little gem.

Also, a little warning, a two-level Paladin dip to gain a lot of Fortitude save due to the class' +2 and Divine Grace now stacking with his blasting-spell/spell-DC stat would be a pretty obvious choice. Expect to see that pop up a lot if your players have any interest in effectiveness.

There's a lot to flesh out here, too--hit die, skill points, weapon/armor choices, spell failure chances, etc.

[Logic]

How often does a spellcaster have to make a fortitude save or else become fatigued?

Every time he casts a spell. Except when he casts a 0-level spell, or 3 levels lower than the highest spell level he can cast perhaps. This definately needs more fine tuning.

1) I assume you meant to put this in "homebrew"...

2) I like the MAD-for-spellcasting idea, though IMO it would work better as a 2-ability MAD rather than a 3-ability MAD. Maybe INT or WIS govern bonus spell slots and spells known for arcane/divine casters, and CHA governs saves for both? This way you could probably get an 18 and a 14 or something similar in your 2 prime stats. If you had to bring all 3 up, plus needing the standard CON and DEX boosts to stay alive, you'd be in a tough spot.

3) I also muchly like the schools/subschools being based on different attributes. Here, I wouldn't worry so much about 3-attribute MAD -- whichever attributes you crank up determine which spells you'll be good at casting.

4) The fatigue curse seems pretty rough on top of all the other modifications.
1) Yes, yes I did. I thought I was in homebrew at the time.
2) I will take your advice under advisement, but at the moment, I prefer my method.
3) No note needed.
4) The fatigue is not all that difficult of a requirement. Especially since it will be using the typical caster saves (good will, poor ref and Fort) By the time a caster is 10th level, he has a base save in fort of +3. that allows him to cast 3rd and lower spells with about a 50% chance of becoming fatigued.
So, going by just what was given here, a spellcaster with good Cha and ok Wiz could reasonably expect to know the key mid-level healing spells and any blasting spells he wanted. The spells-available approach isn't so much MAD as it is "Mystic Theurge without the caster-level loss", which strikes me as a pretty big buff. I don't think you're taking a reasonable approach to limiting spellcaster power, there, I think you're going to make them stronger once your players notice that little gem.

Also, a little warning, a two-level Paladin dip to gain a lot of Fortitude save due to the class' +2 and Divine Grace now stacking with his blasting-spell/spell-DC stat would be a pretty obvious choice. Expect to see that pop up a lot if your players have any interest in effectiveness.

There's a lot to flesh out here, too--hit die, skill points, weapon/armor choices, spell failure chances, etc.

First note. He won't have a great selection of spells unless he has a decent intellegence.

Second note. Paladins are not going to be available to just any player, unless they roleplay them properly. Besides, I intend on Paladin being a prestige class in this homebrew.

HD=D4, SP=2+Int, Saves=Good Will, Weapon & Armor proficiency=As Sorceror, Spell failure=Normal.

[tainsouvra]

He won't have a great selection of spells unless he has a decent intellegence. I think you're going to have to spell out how spell availability works, then. From your first post, intelligence was just access to certain non-healing/non-blasting spells and bonus spells known. Given that, it would be pretty irrelevant to the blaster-healer possibility I mentioned. As a player, I'd probably want to have at least a medium stat there, but it's definitely not a limiting factor either way. A character could still Fireball out of one hand and Cure Wounds out of the other...
Paladins are not going to be available to just any player, unless they roleplay them properly. Besides, I intend on Paladin being a prestige class in this homebrew. That's a great idea :smallsmile:

[Logic]

As a player, I'd probably want to have at least a medium stat there, but it's definitely not a limiting factor either way. A character could still Fireball out of one hand and Cure Wounds out of the other... That's a great idea :smallsmile:

But, having a single caster do that is going to eat up his resources (spell slots) more quickly. He has to be even more concerned with his spell slots than ever before.

Also, using the standard point buy system a character usually ends up with starting ability scores being 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. So with the ability bonuses gained every 4th level, if he goes for only one stat to increase, he will either always be stuck at 4th level blasting spells or healing spells. And I don't allow temporary magical ability boosts to allo higer level spellcasting in my normal games.

(If that isn't clear, then if your intellegence is 15, and you have a headband of intellect +2, and a seventh level spell slot, you don't get seventh level spells known, nor do you get any spells of 6th level to learn. If you had 17 intellegence, and you are drained for 2 points, 6th and 7th level spells are unavailable to you, but you may still use the spell slots for metamagic purposes. You don't "unlearn" any spells from being level drained.)

[Morty]

Fortitude save every time caster casts as spell is going to utterly screw low-level casters up. Also, I'd rather make casters choose wheter their secondary stat is Cha or Wis. Depending on three stats would slow them down too much- remember that casters are only overpowered on mid-to-high levels. Also, is there going to be any diversion between arcane and divine casters?
Otherwise, looks good.

[tainsouvra]

But, having a single caster do that is going to eat up his resources (spell slots) more quickly. He has to be even more concerned with his spell slots than ever before. That's not a problem with the character build, that's a lack of spellcasters. It's utterly irrelevant to my point, just have two or three spellcasters like a normal party and you're golden.
Also, using the standard point buy system a character usually ends up with starting ability scores being 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. So with the ability bonuses gained every 4th level, if he goes for only one stat to increase, he will either always be stuck at 4th level blasting spells or healing spells. That was already accounted for in what I wrote--"a spellcaster with good Cha and ok Wiz could reasonably expect to know the key mid-level healing spells and any blasting spells he wanted"--he could pop a 14 into Wis and consider raising it once, then put the 15 to Cha and raise it with the rest. It works, and rivals (possibly even surpasses) the RAW Sorcerer--all the blasting power, but healing spells up to level 5, at a minimum.
And I don't allow temporary magical ability boosts to allo higer level spellcasting in my normal games. (Un)fortunately it isn't necessary for the combination I proposed. Base stats alone do it.

Also, which base progression for spells-per-day and spells known are you using?

[Logic]

That's not a problem with the character build, that's a lack of spellcasters. It's utterly irrelevant to my point, just have two or three spellcasters like a normal party and you're golden. That was already accounted for in what I wrote--"a spellcaster with good Cha and ok Wiz could reasonably expect to know the key mid-level healing spells and any blasting spells he wanted"--he could pop a 14 into Wis and consider raising it once, then put the 15 to Cha and raise it with the rest. It works, and rivals (possibly even surpasses) the RAW Sorcerer--all the blasting power, but healing spells up to level 5, at a minimum. (Un)fortunately it isn't necessary for the combination I proposed. Base stats alone do it.

Also, which base progression for spells-per-day and spells known are you using?
Good point. I have to come up with another limit to keep someone from just being a healer/blaster, and being better at it than anything in core.

I was thinking this class would use the table from the Wizard Spells per day, and using the normal table for Wisom for bonus spells per day. Spells known, I was thinking 5 0-level spells, learning a new one at every level, 3 1st-level spells, and learning a new one every odd level. Unsure of how to go from there, but I usually work better when I have commited an idea to paper (or pixel, in this case) because it lets me look over the system as a whole.
I don't exactly have an SRD or a Player's Handbook in front of me, and I can't access them, due to the firewalls at my location.