Roleplaying a malevelant force: how far should one go?

[Staven]

Ok, I'll explain this as quickly as possible: my group is doing a high-powered campaign in which the main characters are myself and my friend, with the other members acting as minor/recurring characters. The gist is that my friend (or rather, his dreadmaster) wants to rule the cosmos. He has succeeded in becoming a god (not sure if it's demigod, lesser deity or greater deity, i'll stick with lesser) and now needs to work out the technicalities of being a god. that said, he needs a harbinger, and has promised (metagame) to select me. I am honored to take this job (and equally enjoyed at the chance to do more damage than the Silver Surfer), but I don't know how to roleplay it. I have a will of my own, and a detailed backstory, but I am reluctant to give up my individuality and just say "he is coming" before killing whoever's in charge and then leaving. How do I do this job while still being my own character?

[Damionte]

You don't.

You agreed to be the harbringer of doom. And that's the job discription.

The best you can do is to blow up thier leader in your own.... idium. Make a game out of it, never kill them the same way twice.

[C Harnryd]

You could use your new status to gain advantages that fits the goals of your character. Try to get people you like to join your side. Tempt them with positions of power when the new world order arrives. Let your preferences guide your killing: spare chess players if your character likes chess, kill flute players if he/she dislikes flutes.

In fiction, people who join dark forces often sees it as a way to fulfill some personal ambition. Since your decision was made on a metagame level, you might have to do it in reverse; that is, invent a strong reason for the character do take this step and have that reason affect future roleplaying.

[Staven]

Since your decision was made on a metagame level, you might have to do it in reverse; that is, invent a strong reason for the character do take this step and have that reason affect future roleplaying.

The thing is, My character (who I named myself on this forum after) knew the dreadmaster well before he became a god. Staven himself values his backstory, and really, I just can't find a reason why he would take this job. I've wracked my head over and over, but I just don't know why he would give up everything about himself to signal his lord's approach. His loyalty only extends so far, and although he would (and has) die for the cause, he values himself as a person too much. PLUS, he would only get to appear where his lord wanted him to, which is another problem, because he himself has an Arthas (WC3) complex, in that he likes to go on huge journeys, searching for things both material and abstract. He right now is serving as the champion of his lord, and I dare say, he's become seriously epic (in Kratos terms and in level terms) and I think he might just turn down the job. It's a 50-50 shot, though, it depends on how nice his lord is going to be with this (although I'm guessing not too nice, he has actually described himself as a bitch).

[LordMalrog]

MALROG IS ALL MIGHTY, BOW BEFORE LORD MALROG!!!:smallfurious:
((i'm in his group, i'm the dread master))
Alright u negelcted to mention your characters background which generally plays into this. Allow me to give my cut down interpretation. *ahem*
Alright staven grew up with a military family and he was shipped off to a vietnam like war where he killed his platoon and ate them. He was shipped off to fight with malrog. He then later died... making him a death knight, and got some dark crystal armor. His two main character traits are sadism and lust

[Mike_Lemmer]

*ahem*

Couldn't you compromise? You go on the big epic journeys and along the way, you take a detour through X, and casually remark to the King, "Oh, you know what? I know this god; he's gonna come here and kill you all. Enjoy!" and then slaughter anyone stupid enough to stop you from leaving.

[Callos_DeTerran]

The solution is obvious young evil doer.

*fanged smile* You copy Malrog's method of ascension down to the last detail and add deific power unto your own (which should put you ahead of Malrog if your both still of comparable power). Then you cannibalize the foolish Malrog who trusted a sadistic cannibal to be his liutenant and add his power unto your own.

When you select your own herald, make sure their neutral and physically and mentally compelled to always obey you. Then have them unleash the father of all titans (I don't remember his name. I think it's Cronus) to slay most of the gods and absorb their power before sending the Titan back to his prison and ushering in a new age of darkness, sadism, and lust.


...Oh wait...your characters aren't..*tentacle shudder*...friendly with each other, are they? If they are then cut out everything after 'copy Malrog's method of ascension down to the last detail' part. and work with each other not one under the other.

[Aquillion]

Basically, yeah. I don't think your character is crazy for accepting the job--but I think your friend is crazy for offering it to you. Based on your character description, you're going to be looking for a way to stab your boss in the back sooner or later.

Honestly, stabbing your boss in the back is practically part of the "herald" description in any case. It's what evil heralds do--not stabbing your boss in the back would be like rolling a trusted advisor with a handlebar mustache who dry-washes his hand and doesn't try to take over the kingdom. If you didn't try to take over, your boss would probably have you executed on general principal, because there's no way he can trust a trusted minion who doesn't try to stab him in the back... you're just too weird and unpredictable.

[Tallis]

If you take the job are you acting as a harbinger 24/7? Doesn't really seem necessary. Unless Malrog forbids it you could go on with your own life and travels most of the time. Occassionally Malrog will send you to herald his coming. It may be an interuption, but a god should be able to teleport you where he needs you and back, so most of the time it shouldn't take too long.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Reading the title of this thread, I thought you were saying that the act of roleplaying itself was a malevolent force. Here I was, expecting talk of RP slowing down combat or getting in the way of crunch, and you're talking more about 'Galactus'-esque stuff. Whoops!

[LordMalrog]

Talking to the one who says copy malrog's method... it's impossable without a frontal confrontation. See one needs wroshippers to ascend, and malrog took over an entire plane through massive battles. A harbinger lacks free will, thus young staven's concern. Betrayal doesn't work when the god just goes, NO BANISHED!, and he's gone never to be seen again. There in lies the problem. And it's impossable to ascend without ascention being noticed by other gods. Another thing I forgot to say was, Malrog's mission is to be the only god, so he starts at the weak aka, newly arisen gods, oh and malrog has been having *ahem* trust issues. Nearly everyone close to him has betrayed him so... he wouldn't take it well :xykon: :nale:

[The Glyphstone]

A harbinger lacks free will, thus young staven's concern. Betrayal doesn't work when the god just goes, NO BANISHED!, and he's gone never to be seen again.

How can Malrog accomplish this, and yet not BANISHED! anyone who gets in his way? If he's powerful enough to just randomly vaporize stuff, what does he need with a herald in the first place? And if a harbringer has no free will, then the whole point is moot...if Staven accepts the deal, he loses control of his PC permanently and it becomes an effective NPC under your control - it'd be pointless to have another real person running it when everything they do is decided by you.

Besides...it's not impossible to become a god, just difficult. Unless Malrog is a god of Secrets and Betrayal, all Stavren has to do is be very, very quiet about it so Malrog doesn't find out. Epic battles are not the only way to get worshippers...secret cults are actuall much more efficient. And you said he's a death knight, so it's not like he'll run out of time.

[LordMalrog]

How can Malrog accomplish this, and yet not BANISHED! anyone who gets in his way? If he's powerful enough to just randomly vaporize stuff, what does he need with a herald in the first place? And if a harbringer has no free will, then the whole point is moot...if Staven accepts the deal, he loses control of his PC permanently and it becomes an effective NPC under your control - it'd be pointless to have another real person running it when everything they do is decided by you.

Besides...it's not impossible to become a god, just difficult. Unless Malrog is a god of Secrets and Betrayal, all Stavren has to do is be very, very quiet about it so Malrog doesn't find out. Epic battles are not the only way to get worshippers...secret cults are actuall much more efficient. And you said he's a death knight, so it's not like he'll run out of time.

As in... only his harbinger... because he ties directly from the divine energies malrog bestowed on him

[The Glyphstone]

As in... only his harbinger... because he ties directly from the divine energies malrog bestowed on him


In that case, that's just one more reason for Staven to refuse the Harbringer job offer - not only does he lose all his free will, but he has no hope of progressing in power afterwards without Malrog giving it to him. Just seems odd that he was this super-epic powerful character before he theoretically becomes a harbringer, but then loses all of that ability upon accepting. It'd actually be a loss of overall power, really.

Malrog getting upset and BANISH!ing (fun to type :smallcool: ) his former Herald would make sense, but it doesn't make sense for it to be a automatic gone thing...if anything, it'd be Malrog's will against whatever Staven could muster for personal strength in his pre-Harbringer state (granted, not much of a contest likely, but it really depends on how Epic he is vs. how powerful Malrog has become at that point...Epic D&D characters can, quite literally and sometimes easily, kill gods).

[Tiki Snakes]

I really don't see anything in this for Staven at all. I'd say talk to whoever is DMing this (rather insane seeming campaign) about possibly changing the mechanics of how the whole Harbinger thing works into something much more appealing, or simply not taking Malrog-the-terrifyingly-over-powered-PC's offer.

;)


This does seem to be rather strangely Malrog-centric a campaign, btw. I can only assume that the players are all enjoying themselves still, but I must say, It does seem a little unbalanced, really.

[LordMalrog]

I really don't see anything in this for Staven at all. I'd say talk to whoever is DMing this (rather insane seeming campaign) about possibly changing the mechanics of how the whole Harbinger thing works into something much more appealing, or simply not taking Malrog-the-terrifyingly-over-powered-PC's offer.

;)

... i'm sitting right here... And i'm not overpowered... Oh and i have talked this out with the dm. The harbinger things rules are his. ^^

[Tiki Snakes]

... i'm sitting right here... And i'm not overpowered... Oh and i have talked this out with the dm. The harbinger things rules are his. ^^

Well, when originally worked out, was the harbinger expected to be a PC or NPC? The whole total-loss-of-free-will thing, and so on, do not sound like something that ANY Pc would be attracted to, barring purely for the potential RP aspect, maybe.

No offence, but on paper at least, the fact that your character, and not any of the others, has acheived ANY kind of divine rank does sound over-powered, if we assume you were, beforehand, already at the same general level of power as your other party member/s.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Talking to the one who says copy malrog's method... it's impossable without a frontal confrontation. See one needs wroshippers to ascend, and malrog took over an entire plane through massive battles. A harbinger lacks free will, thus young staven's concern. Betrayal doesn't work when the god just goes, NO BANISHED!, and he's gone never to be seen again. There in lies the problem. And it's impossable to ascend without ascention being noticed by other gods. Another thing I forgot to say was, Malrog's mission is to be the only god, so he starts at the weak aka, newly arisen gods, oh and malrog has been having *ahem* trust issues. Nearly everyone close to him has betrayed him so... he wouldn't take it well :xykon: :nale:


O.o That's how you became a god? Really? Wow...I thought there was more to it then that. Thats a horribly inefficient method to become a deity (Not to mention it should take a little bit of something else too). And from what it seems your deity's power level is at, your DM should realize that if you directly interfere (through avatar ((harbringer in this case)) ) in the mortal plane to destroy or attack an enemy for whatever reason, other opposed deities will act against you. Which would make it dangerous to move against an epic level harbringer on the mortal plane...or if they've taken refuge in someone else's domain.

That said, theres much more effective methods of becoming a deity though they're a bit more dangerous though I don't think Staven would mind a bit of danger in this sort of thing.

[Staven]

Danger? Staven has died twice, and both times, he's come back (although the second time was much less dignified...true resurrection). The problem is that he actually believes in what he's doing here, so backstabbing is out of the question (besides, Malrog is so anal-retentively meticulous that no plan could ever succeed). And Malrog sees gaining divinity as a backstabbing AND a reason to kill in one neat little package, and backstabbing already is a reason to kill. So the only way Staven and Malrog can both be happy is if they either do a lich king thing (which is not going to happen) or Staven just stays the champion of Malrog, as he already is. Either way, someone isn't going to be happy, so it kind of is a lose-lose situation. And their friendship is a little shaky to begin with; a One Ring thing kind of happened and Staven (against his will(save)) managed to kill about half of Malrog's minions. Most of them were busy monolouging(sp?) about "forming a new empire, DARK AND TERRIBLE," that they were too busy to notice the fact that their spine had been cleaved.


My proposal: one of two things.

1. Eliminate the middle man and just make him the high priest, in charge of worship and castigation or

2. Give Staven a fraction of his power, making him a pseudo-deity that conquers in Malrog's name while Malrog himself is branching off. of course, that leaves the option of betrayal, but that's what a daily scrying is for.


So, I want to hear from you all. Which one seems like a better idea?

[slexlollar89]

why dont you just ask malrog to let you be an independant, yet powerful force, like his divine champion or something? maybe you could get some free dark paladin levels.:smallsmile:

[Staven]

why dont you just ask malrog to let you be an independant, yet powerful force, like his divine champion or something? maybe you could get some free dark paladin levels.:smallsmile:

The problem there is that he already is a 10th level blackguard and already IS his divine champion, and the last guy who secceeded from him ended up as a pinata (no joke). It's a hole that we both dug ourselves...

[Tallis]

From Malrogs point of view Staven becoming high priest would be the better option ofthe 2 you presented.
From Staven's point of view demigodhood would be better. In my opinion this would also make for a better game since it brings the primary PCs closer to the smae power level.
If a harbinger loses all free will there's definitely no good reason to take that. That's just turning your PC into an NPC, you might as well make a new character if you accept.

[Staven]

Sadly enough, the issue was resolved just a few minutes ago. I will become a harbinger, but it's not what you think. I'll be a "Dark Jesus" of sorts, spreading Malroginism(:P) throughout the worlds. I keep my free will and follow my own ambitions, but I only lose free will if I blatantly disobey Malrog. The only problem left is character development. There really wont be any room for it. I have an arch-nemesis of sorts, but storywise, that's all I have going for my character. I'll have to talk this over with malrog and the DM. I'll need help through my career, though, so if the mods could keep this thread open, it'd be appreciated.

[slexlollar89]

you could always kill the blackguard and plant evidence to make it look like he was gonna betray your lord. it would secure your loyalty, make you more awesome, and get you a better position.

[Hallavast]

Well, your character can always have one of those "I dont want to do this anymore moments" so he can rebel by finding some way to break the mind control thing when he disobeys his master. Or there's always ways to twist your missions into following personal vendettas or helping your master's enemies. But if you want to follow your mission to the end then you have become a bit of the standard total evil villain of sorts... Character growth will mean change for you after you've done the monolithic evil bit for long enough...

[LordMalrog]

*sigh* One of the main reasons malrog decided to make staven his harbinger was because he was unsure of Staven's loyalty after he (on his own accord, yeah that's right he failed his will save before he picked up the artifact) went rambo on Malrogs entire tower with an artifact that would have ended a great war between malrog and another god. Of coarse staven lost the only great hope so malrog, being the paranoid dictator that he is realized that this was one of the few sure ways to keep an eye on Staven, and keep him from assasinating him... The person who plays staven hit me with a stapler over this... :smallannoyed: All in all I did it to keep the party in one piece due to there has been a relativly high amount of backstabbing over the coarse of the campaign. The player who controls staven still controls staven. He is not an NPC. It's just when he tries to flip out, and kill everyone in the tower malrog can stop him instead of a party member dying in the process.

[Dervag]

How can Malrog accomplish this, and yet not BANISHED! anyone who gets in his way? If he's powerful enough to just randomly vaporize stuff, what does he need with a herald in the first place?Why would he need to use a harbinger?

Why not?

Perhaps the answer is "because it amuses him to do so."

Oh. Wait. There is a real reason for Malrog to use a harbinger, and this particular harbinger. Apparently Malrog does not wish to slay Staven out of hand, but wishes to have absolute control over him should he need it.

Darn. I was so hoping the answer was "because it amuses me to do so."

[LordMalrog]

Why would he need to use a harbinger?

Why not?

Perhaps the answer is "because it amuses him to do so."

Oh. Wait. There is a real reason for Malrog to use a harbinger, and this particular harbinger. Apparently Malrog does not wish to slay Staven out of hand, but wishes to have absolute control over him should he need it.

Darn. I was so hoping the answer was "because it amuses me to do so."

Well... maybe just alittle