Artificer in Short, High-Level Campaign?

[strangebloke]

Going to be playing a short term campaign with a party of high-level villains. This is the prequel to the campaign proper, where we'll be the resistance.

We're starting at 16th level. Feats and Magic items are available. UA is possible on request, but not guaranteed. There are six players so no worries about missing out on a basic role. We're doing point buy.

One of the world's factions basically reads as 'magitech dwarves.' I was originally interested in playing a dwarf wizard, so when I got the campaign info I immediately though "Ooh, I could do a fun evil artificer!" DM has read through and approved the artificer base class, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Basically, I'm concerned that, although the class is more or less balanced, it will be really boring. Sure, I can hand out a few 'rings of haste' and 'rings of enlarge/reduce,' which will basically make me the supreme buff-master, but I don't actually get to cast those spells. The mech servant will be essentially a familiar that I can ride, and the magic items are generally just neat utility functions. I will be a pretty effective trap-finder, but my current DM doesn't do traps.

So I'm left with healing (via alchemist) and throwing acid every turn. The numbers are ok, but it feels less interactive round-to-round than the champion fighter, who can at least push people around or power attack. Out of combat there are a few decisions, but its still somewhat uninteresting.

1: How can I make it more interactive? What are some neat tricks that add value to the class.
2: Should I just play something else? I don't need to be the strongest, I just want to be making decisions.

[Rogerdodger557]

Gunsmith with sharpshooter. Never appear on the battlefield.

Alternatively, get crossbow expert as well, then ride in on your creation and knock everyone prone.

[Arenabait]

Three words: Giant Steel Eagle.

Grab yourself a bag of holding, and fill it with (Literal, not the class feature) Alchemists fire. Drop it on a city, and watch as the napalm burns, and the fire spreads

[strangebloke]

Gunsmith with sharpshooter. Never appear on the battlefield.

Alternatively, get crossbow expert as well, then ride in on your creation and knock everyone prone.
I missed that!

But doesn't the sharshooter nonsense not really apply to the thunder cannon, since you'll generally be using a 'special attack'?

Three words: Giant Steel Eagle.

Grab yourself a bag of holding, and fill it with (Literal, not the class feature) Alchemists fire. Drop it on a city, and watch as the napalm burns, and the fire spreads

Where do I get all that alchemists fire? And if I'm just buying it, couldn't I just do this as a wizard?

[Rogerdodger557]

I missed that!

But doesn't the sharshooter nonsense not really apply to the thunder cannon, since you'll generally be using a 'special attack'?


Where do I get all that alchemists fire? And if I'm just buying it, couldn't I just do this as a wizard?

The -5/+10 should still work.

[strangebloke]

The -5/+10 should still work.

I thought about this, but the -5/+10 is actually pretty bad. Since I'll be doing 9d6 + DEX, (or 36.5 damage on average) losing a 25% chance to hit is roughly equivalent to losing 9 damage, so all I would be getting for my trouble is a very slight damage increase and a significant drop in consistency.

[Captain Bob]

I think a lot of this question's answer depends on your DM. The amount of creativity and flexibility he will allow from you being basically a magically inclined engineer will likely determine how much fun you can have with the class - I would normally agree that it is a bit under-powered. If you have any cool ideas for what you can make in terms of mechanical or magical items, I'd field them to the DM and see what the reception is like. If he's amenable, you likely have room to make the class your own in fun ways - otherwise, I'd contemplate going in a different direction.

[Rogerdodger557]

I thought about this, but the -5/+10 is actually pretty bad. Since I'll be doing 9d6 + DEX, (or 36.5 damage on average) losing a 25% chance to hit is roughly equivalent to losing 9 damage, so all I would be getting for my trouble is a very slight damage increase and a significant drop in consistency.

Don't forget about ignoring all but full cover. And talk with your DM about what type of magic items your character's will have access to.(Not the ones that the artificer would make)

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'll note that you can cast spells normally, if you want; Infuse Magic is optional. But overall, the class definitely has boredom problems. Gunsmiths will use Thunder Monger pretty much every turn, given how weak the late-game AoEs are; Alchemists get all their useful formula at 1st. (Also, it's utterly bonkers that Fire and Acid are both reflex saves; Acid should be an attack roll or Con save or something, just to have some variety).

I suggest using the early Artificer Wizard tradition from UA: Eberron. That should hit the same thematic points while being far more usable.

[strangebloke]

I'll note that you can cast spells normally, if you want; Infuse Magic is optional. But overall, the class definitely has boredom problems. Gunsmiths will use Thunder Monger pretty much every turn, given how weak the late-game AoEs are; Alchemists get all their useful formula at 1st. (Also, it's utterly bonkers that Fire and Acid are both reflex saves; Acid should be an attack roll or Con save or something, just to have some variety).

I suggest using the early Artificer Wizard tradition from UA: Eberron. That should hit the same thematic points while being far more usable.

Yeah, that's more what I'm leaning towards as well. I feel bad for making my DM plow through more material though.

Casting spells normally is an option, of course. But artificers suck at it. They're 1/3 casters with a horrible list.They're very cool in that they can subvert a lot of the 'rules.' (more than one concentration slot, more than 1 spell a turn, no default magic items)

The only real draw at this point is the shear novelty of playing something so weird.

[Mortis_Elrod]

There was that Runescribe Prestige class UA . Add that to say the artificer Everton wizard. Should be interesting,




Forge cleric is also pretty cool.

[8wGremlin]

Actually you could play up the wording of UA Artificer level 4 ability.

Take a level 6 UA Artificer, for the Servant - pick either a flying mount, or the crag cat from SKT (very cool and potent)
and the rest in UA Wizard:Artificer 10 levels?

Now the wording on the ability

Infuse Magic Starting at 4th level, you gain the ability to channel your artificer spells into objects for later use.


Technically the UA Artificer and UA Wizard:Artificer have the same spell list now.
Hand out the bracelets of 'haste' to your friends to cast.

[StorytellerHero]

You can try having a look at this artificer design on DMsGuild.


http://www.dmsguild.com/product/204687/THE-ARTIFICER-5e-Revised?sorttest=true

Its core gameplay revolves around crafting on the fly with a dynamic tool-creating feature. Trapped in a pit? No problem --> Boom! Ladder! Need a way to shoot down the wyvern with everyone out of ammo? Boom! New arrows and javelins!

[strangebloke]

Actually you could play up the wording of UA Artificer level 4 ability.

Take a level 6 UA Artificer, for the Servant - pick either a flying mount, or the crag cat from SKT (very cool and potent)
and the rest in UA Wizard:Artificer 10 levels?

Now the wording on the ability


Technically the UA Artificer and UA Wizard:Artificer have the same spell list now.
Hand out the bracelets of 'haste' to your friends to cast.

This is hilariously dirty and I love it. But I don't hate my DM that much.

Here's a more serious thought: Minionmancy.

I hire a bunch of swordsmen. Say I go for the Thug listed in the MM. I take inspiring leader. I can use that ability over and over again on each group. I buy them healing kits so they can stabilize each other. I hand out buckets of health potions after each conflict to get them up to full.

So each thug has ~50 hit points. They keep each other from dying, They can regain ~20 temporary hp per short rest (plus their hit dice) and can get fully healed once per day. Thugs have pack tactics, so they're able to hit things with pretty high ACs. This pretty much works, but has obvious drawbacks in a wide variety of tactical scenarios.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think I'd prefer the double-Artificer stuff to the minionmancy. It's a bit goofy, but it's not like you're not paying a steep cost. An army of thugs, on the other hand, will slow things to a crawl.

[strangebloke]

I think I'd prefer the double-Artificer stuff to the minionmancy. It's a bit goofy, but it's not like you're not paying a steep cost. An army of thugs, on the other hand, will slow things to a crawl.

You are right, of course, that it would slow things down, but knowing my DM he'd be very annoyed at me using something as goofy as the double-artificer trick.

There are ways to make minionmancy work faster. I could calculate the average damage for the group and just use that value, reducing the number of rolls. Regardless, going full wizard just makes more sense for a typical DnD campaign.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You are right, of course, that it would slow things down, but knowing my DM he'd be very annoyed at me using something as goofy as the double-artificer trick.
I'm not sure you really need the trick; as far as I can tell from the normal 5e multiclass caster rules, you should be able to use your Artificer slots (and, thus, Infuse Magic) to cast stuff off your second class' list.

[strangebloke]

I'm not sure you really need the trick; as far as I can tell from the normal 5e multiclass caster rules, you should be able to use your Artificer slots (and, thus, Infuse Magic) to cast stuff off your second class' list.

I actually don't think you can. The wording of, say, metamagic is 'you gain the ability to twist your Spells to suit your needs.' so it applies to any of my spells. The wording for infuse is 'Starting at 4th level, you gain the ability to channel your artificer spells into objects for later use' which means that you can only use it on artificer spells.

[MeeposFire]

I actually don't think you can. The wording of, say, metamagic is 'you gain the ability to twist your Spells to suit your needs.' so it applies to any of my spells. The wording for infuse is 'Starting at 4th level, you gain the ability to channel your artificer spells into objects for later use' which means that you can only use it on artificer spells.

With UA it is hard to say but in the PHB paladin divine smites said you could convert paladin spells but that was later clarified that you could convert any spell.