Protecting against counterspell

[FirstBornSon]

Best protection against counterspell is probably another counterspell. But what are other options. Is absorption items your best bet? Can you get counterspell somehow on single class cleric or druid?

[PeteNutButter]

Three or more levels in sorcerer gives subtle spell. While not strictly RAW, most DMs seem to rule (logically) that a subtle spell can't be countered, as it just happens without warning.

I don't think there is a domain or land Druid that offers the spell. I could be wrong. Arcana domain should, but I think it's dispel magic only.

The cheapest way to avoid counterspell is to bait out your opponent's reaction. It's less suspicious if your teammate offers them an opportunity attack but you could try with your own move. Most foes only get one reaction, so if they've already taken a swing you are free to spell sling away.

[JackPhoenix]

Being more than 60' away from the CS caster

Being invisible

Full cover between you and the CS caster (see "being invisible")

[Gorgo]

Depending on how interested your GM is in working with this, you may also be able to start playing mind games to see if you can get the enemy caster to use counterspell ineffectively. Maybe open with a low-level spell instead of your big guns in the hopes that the enemy blows a 3rd-level spell slot squishing a 1st-level spell, and such.

[Kane0]

Subtle spell and getting rid of their reactions or line of sight are the most common ways.

[Dudewithknives]

Depending on how interested your GM is in working with this, you may also be able to start playing mind games to see if you can get the enemy caster to use counterspell ineffectively. Maybe open with a low-level spell instead of your big guns in the hopes that the enemy blows a 3rd-level spell slot squishing a 1st-level spell, and such.

Yeah, this is an issue I see all the time.

Gm: ok player a, the enemy wizard is going to cast finger of death at you.

Player of caster. oh crap, I use counterapell.

Where it should be:

DM: Ok party of PCS, you see the enemy caster starting to cast a spell. (Has spell on a notecard. This is just me, but otherwise people could accuse you of screwing over the pc by changing it after you see if they counterapell or not.)

Player: at who, and what spell is it?

DM: You don't know.

Player: umm ok...

[Kane0]

Need more ranks in spellcraft :smallamused:

[Specter]

If you're not a Sorcerer, invisibility (best cast from cover). If you are, Subtle Spell.

[wilhelmdubdub]

after they counterspell, quicken something else

lore bard: cutting words

use an illusion spell in between to mask your casting

halfling? hide behind someone

diviner? portent die

lucky feat

warlock? cast from darkness

a monk's open hand technique, stunning strike

if they are blinded, grappled (somatic), paralyzed, incapacitated, unconscious

sorcerers and wizards can cast the slow spell its a 3rd level spell

[Ixidor92]

The cheapest way to avoid counterspell is to bait out your opponent's reaction. It's less suspicious if your teammate offers them an opportunity attack but you could try with your own move. Most foes only get one reaction, so if they've already taken a swing you are free to spell sling away.

Depending on how your DM handles combat, this would probably be the best way. For example, if a teammate can get into melee range, the caster probably has to decide whether he saves his reaction for counterspell or uses it on shield now to save his hide.

[Naanomi]

Being more than 60' away from the CS caster
Distant Spell muhahah

[BW022]

Lots of options...

* Invisibility, fog cloud, darkness, etc. Anything which obscures their view of you.
* Move out of sight. Behind a wall, around a corner, etc. Often you can still see a point in the room, for say fireball... or at least get away with a heal, defensive spell, summon monsters, etc.
* Cause them to use their reaction or otherwise wait until they do. Run people past them, it is then safe to cast then they cast.
* With (above), cast multiple spells. Have all your casters cast or use quicken spell, action surge, etc. Cast a cantrip and see if they dispel it... if yes, blast away.
* Ready attacks against them.
* Cast minor spells. They then effectively waste 3rd-level slots on minor spells.
* Cast really high level spells. Hope they run out of higher level slots.
* Stay more than 60' from them.
* Blindness
* Incapacitate them -- paralysation, sleep, etc.

[Jerrykhor]

Yeah, this is an issue I see all the time.

Gm: ok player a, the enemy wizard is going to cast finger of death at you.

Player of caster. oh crap, I use counterapell.

Where it should be:

DM: Ok party of PCS, you see the enemy caster starting to cast a spell. (Has spell on a notecard. This is just me, but otherwise people could accuse you of screwing over the pc by changing it after you see if they counterapell or not.)

Player: at who, and what spell is it?

DM: You don't know.

Player: umm ok...
I know a lot of DMs like to do this, but I think it is wrong. Any magic user worth a damn can identify the spell being cast by the verbal or somatic.

[PeteNutButter]

Yeah, this is an issue I see all the time.

Gm: ok player a, the enemy wizard is going to cast finger of death at you.

Player of caster. oh crap, I use counterapell.

Where it should be:

DM: Ok party of PCS, you see the enemy caster starting to cast a spell. (Has spell on a notecard. This is just me, but otherwise people could accuse you of screwing over the pc by changing it after you see if they counterapell or not.)

Player: at who, and what spell is it?

DM: You don't know.

Player: umm ok...

I like this, but I offer both PCs and NPCs the chance at an arcana check to see the spell being cast, basic DC 10 + spell level, similar to 3.5e. You could even make the case to use Religion for cleric/paladin spells and nature for druid/ranger spells. Those skills seem underutilized as it is.

[RSP]

I know a lot of DMs like to do this, but I think it is wrong. Any magic user worth a damn can identify the spell being cast by the verbal or somatic.

I think you're assuming all spells are cast the same way, whereas nothing (that I'm aware of) in the RAW actually supports this.

For instance, a Sorcerer's Fireball (coming as it is from innate magic in their body) may have different V and S words and movements than a Wizards (learned ritualistic magic).

Further, two Sorcerers might cast it completely different (as might two Wizards unless they copied the spell from the same spell book, then you could certainly make a good argument they should be the same V and S).

Each class fluffs its magic differently, so it makes sense the V and S components are different: Druidic nature magic will differ from Clerics' granted from deities, will differ from Bardic "Words of Creation" magic.

Different languages are going to have different V components either way, as well, as there is no standard "language of magic." So an Elf is going to use Elven words for their V component, while a Dwarf will use Dwarven words.

Certainly, you could homebrew a world where all magic is cast the same, but that's not how the RAW of 5e is set up.

[Breashios]

Since a player is rarely going to say "I cast a spell" and wait for the DM to choose whether to counterspell or not, it is equally unfair to not tell the party what is being cast. This is the position my players take about it and based on the Rule of Fun, I have to acquiesce.

So what I do is say the spell being cast if they would know it (it is on their list, or they have seen it cast often). When it is less well known, that's when I require a Arcana check with bonuses for having previously seen it used. (With my party, 2 have Keen Mind, so I usually give it to them if they have seen/heard it within the last month - period.)

To balance out suspicions I will have the bad guys counterspell uncommon low level spells and attempt to counterspell higher level spells with the basic level counterspell if they wouldn't know it. I am sure to shrug my shoulders and say "He apparently did not know that was only a Sanctuary spell" (or whatever it was).

[Citan]

I think you're assuming all spells are cast the same way, whereas nothing (that I'm aware of) in the RAW actually supports this.

For instance, a Sorcerer's Fireball (coming as it is from innate magic in their body) may have different V and S words and movements than a Wizards (learned ritualistic magic).

Further, two Sorcerers might cast it completely different (as might two Wizards unless they copied the spell from the same spell book, then you could certainly make a good argument they should be the same V and S).

Each class fluffs its magic differently, so it makes sense the V and S components are different: Druidic nature magic will differ from Clerics' granted from deities, will differ from Bardic "Words of Creation" magic.

Different languages are going to have different V components either way, as well, as there is no standard "language of magic." So an Elf is going to use Elven words for their V component, while a Dwarf will use Dwarven words.

Certainly, you could homebrew a world where all magic is cast the same, but that's not how the RAW of 5e is set up.

Agreed. With that said enforcing such a view would make it really hard for players imo...

I compromise the following.
Spell cast by enemy is...
- Known by player --> immediately identified.

- On player spelllist and of a level he could cast... --> free arcana/religion/etc check dc 10.

- Known by party because already cast at them before --> if they suffered it at least 5 times its automatic. Otherwise free check dc 10 plus spell level.

- Other cases = normal rules (except I allow a player to do a check with a reaction instead of an action Otherwise would be kinda useless whereas with this players have to cooperate).

These rulings dont cover all. For example if an enemy wizard were grabbing a diamond as he begins casting a spell while party Wizard doesnt know for sure big chances are that enemy is preparing a Chromatic Orb...
---> at least until casters all have focus smart players that pay attention can choose wisely when to use counterspell... : )

Also I encourage players to do checks on casters to get a few information on them from which they can guess the most probable kind of spells they could be threatened with.

[RSP]

Agreed. With that said enforcing such a view would make it really hard for players imo...

I compromise the following.
Spell cast by enemy is...
- Known by player --> immediately identified.

- On player spelllist and of a level he could cast... --> free arcana/religion/etc check dc 10.

- Known by party because already cast at them before --> if they suffered it at least 5 times its automatic. Otherwise free check dc 10 plus spell level.

- Other cases = normal rules (except I allow a player to do a check with a reaction instead of an action Otherwise would be kinda useless whereas with this players have to cooperate).

These rulings dont cover all. For example if an enemy wizard were grabbing a diamond as he begins casting a spell while party Wizard doesnt know for sure big chances are that enemy is preparing a Chromatic Orb...
---> at least until casters all have focus smart players that pay attention can choose wisely when to use counterspell... : )

Also I encourage players to do checks on casters to get a few information on them from which they can guess the most probable kind of spells they could be threatened with.

It depends on the table. I like the poker game of whether or not it's worth casting Counterspell (using the spell cards, face down, to show which spell is selected, without revealing the spell to others, is a fun way to do this). It helps add suspense, however, the table has to adjust to "I cast a spell," rather than "I cast Fireball."

[Vogonjeltz]

Being more than 60' away from the CS caster

Being invisible

Full cover between you and the CS caster (see "being invisible")

Also being hidden. Although that's probably more difficult for someone worried about counterspells than just being invisible or 61+feet away.

[metaridley18]

It depends on the table. I like the poker game of whether or not it's worth casting Counterspell (using the spell cards, face down, to show which spell is selected, without revealing the spell to others, is a fun way to do this). It helps add suspense, however, the table has to adjust to "I cast a spell," rather than "I cast Fireball."

Same. Additionally, it is a subtle nerf to CS, which is already so damn good. As the OP noted, it's good enough that its best protection is itself.

From my perspective it makes sense that it takes a bit (and maybe an Arcana check) to identify magical spells and effects. Granted, I also allow magical observation without using something like Detect Magic. DM allows a guaranteed noticing of the effect and a more detailed description of what's going on, but I allow an Arcana check to sense magic or know things offhand.

[Gurifu]

Bring a blanket and hide under it to cast your spells securely. A good wizard never leaves home without his security blanket.

[Sariel Vailo]

Contingency counter spell times only use it on their counter spells

[JackPhoenix]

Also being hidden. Although that's probably more difficult for someone worried about counterspells than just being invisible or 61+feet away.

True. Should've said "being unseen" instead of "being invisible", Invisibility is just the easiest way to do that (in a situation where do you care about enemies countering your spells)

[wilhelmdubdub]

after they counterspell, quicken something else

lore bard: cutting words

use an illusion spell in between to mask your casting

halfling? hide behind someone

diviner? portent die

lucky feat

warlock? cast from darkness

a monk's open hand technique, stunning strike

if they are blinded, grappled (somatic), paralyzed, incapacitated, unconscious

sorcerers and wizards can cast the slow spell its a 3rd level spell

forgot shocking grasp: can't take reactions

[90sMusic]

I know a lot of DMs like to do this, but I think it is wrong. Any magic user worth a damn can identify the spell being cast by the verbal or somatic.

I usually rule that if it is a spell they know, whether prepared at the moment or not, they recognize it as someone else is casting it. Otherwise they have to pass an arcana check dc of 10 + spell level to identify it. If the spell isn't on their class's spell list, they make the check with disadvantage.

It makes no sense for every single caster to just "know" every single spell they see being cast and exactly what it is and does. Especially if they are, say, a sorcerer who just casts magic innately and never received any sort of formal education on the subject. Warlocks as well, they aren't just instantly given knowledge of every spell in existence, they're just taught how to cast their chosen spells. Etc.

[TheUser]

I usually rule that if it is a spell they know, whether prepared at the moment or not, they recognize it as someone else is casting it. Otherwise they have to pass an arcana check dc of 10 + spell level to identify it. If the spell isn't on their class's spell list, they make the check with disadvantage.

It makes no sense for every single caster to just "know" every single spell they see being cast and exactly what it is and does. Especially if they are, say, a sorcerer who just casts magic innately and never received any sort of formal education on the subject. Warlocks as well, they aren't just instantly given knowledge of every spell in existence, they're just taught how to cast their chosen spells. Etc.


Agreed. I let them know the school of magic with an arcane check over 10 however in my games. I like to let them know what to expect a bit ;)

[Nagog]

I know a lot of DMs like to do this, but I think it is wrong. Any magic user worth a damn can identify the spell being cast by the verbal or somatic.

That highly depends on how familiar the spellcaster is with the spell. Keep in mind it takes literally years of study to master a spell, even one as basic as a cantrip, and there are hundreds of spells, and even then many spellcasters (Wizards being the prime exception) learn their magic from a source that isn't intimate knowledge of magic's workings, therefore if you cast eldritch blast with the Hexblade Patron it may look different than when you cast it with the Raven Queen patron. The somatic components are never actually defined, beyond that they have to be done. It may be different for each caster, and as such other clues must be used to guess what the spell is.

[OgataiKhan]

Can you get counterspell somehow on single class cleric or druid?

Since the first question has already been answered multiple times, I'll tackle this one.

Yes, you can. You need to be an Azorius Functionary from Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. That way you get Counterspell and some other spells added to your spell list if you play any spellcasting class.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I am using stealth, if they can't see you cast they can't counter it.

[LudicSavant]

Best protection against counterspell is probably another counterspell. But what are other options. Is absorption items your best bet? Can you get counterspell somehow on single class cleric or druid?

If they can't see you casting, they can't counterspell you.

[Whyrocknodie]

The absolutely best possible way to deal with this situation which actually improves all areas of the game forever is to take a nice, thick red marker pen and score a heavy line through the word 'counterspell' in the rule book. So much better.

[mephnick]

Since a player is rarely going to say "I cast a spell" and wait for the DM to choose whether to counterspell or not, it is equally unfair to not tell the party what is being cast

It isn't "unfair" because the system demands that GM and Player have different rules and jobs:

My job as DM is to portray the world in a dramatic way and to "show" not "tell".
Their job as a player is to inform me of the actions they'd like to take clearly so that I can adjudicate.
My other jobs as a DM is to run the NPCs as living entities with motivations and imperfect knowledge (not pawn pieces) and to be a fan of the characters.

If you follow those rules then it isn't a problem. If your DM is constantly meta-gaming to deny you your cool stuff then it is a DM problem, not a Counterspell problem.

[darknite]

The best defense I've seen is a Staff of the Magi used to absorb the Counterspell. Counterspell targets the caster, not the spell so this is a valid use of the Staff's absorption ability. Nerfs the opponent's spell, allows you to cast and you get more charges for your staff (be careful not to overcharge!). Can also be done with a Rod of Absorption, though that is a limited-use item.

[JackPhoenix]

Check the date of the last post. Nagog commited some serious necromancy.

[Lunali]

Distant Spell muhahah

If you go by strict RAW, distant spell doesn't affect the range of the trigger on counterspell, just the range of the spell.

[MrStabby]

Best way to protect against counterspell is to quickly insert a spear through the back of the skull of the enemy caster.

Contingency is also good.

[Crucius]

The level 20 Archdruid feature of Druids prevents Counterspelling in the same way Subtle Spell metamagic does.

But yeah, level 20...

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: In AD&D, Dispel Magic was also effective against Animate Dead; it was difficult to protect against that counterspell.