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8BitNinja
2017-08-24, 06:07 PM
If you were to form a D&D party, what would be the best party to have in your opinion?

Rules:
No more than 7 party members. This isn't an
army

Be as vague or specific as you like. However, specific is better

Any edition, any race, any class

This isn't just about power, it's about how fun
you think the party would be, however, if you think the two overlap, good for you.

Homebrew races and classes aren't bad, just please don't just put your Homebrew.

You can post as many different parties as you like.

Mine personally isn't that thought out, but this is what I have. I'll probably expand on this, but so far I mostly thought of combat purposes.

Paladin- Being my favorite class, a paladin would definitely be in there. Most likely serving as a tank frontline fighter and backup medic when the cleric runs out of cure wounds.

Fighter- since the paladin would most likely focus on being the one to protect, the fighter would be a heavy hitters in combat, focusing on offensive feats

Cleric- Clerics are, in my opinion, a necessity. They are really good offensive and defensive casters as well as exceptional healers. They also have weapon and armor proficiencies good enough to protect the squishies.

Ranger- I don't know why, but I always liked these guys better than rogues

Wizard- He'd sit back behind everyone else and hit oncoming forces with spells. Also probably our walking encyclopedia on everything but religion (that would go to the cleric and probably paladin)

Bard- The bard is there so the wizard doesn't need to work on enchanting. He also has bardic lore, which is cool.

So that's mine, what's yours?

Lord Raziere
2017-08-24, 07:17 PM
1. Chaotic Good Orc Warder

2. Chaotic Good Succubus Rogue, Spy Archetype

3. Chaotic Good Dhampir Harbinger

4. Chaotic Good Goblin Elementalist with Destruction Sphere

5. Chaotic Good Kitsune Fey Adept

6. Chaotic Good Fire Genasi Swashbuckler/Gunslinger with Mysterious Stranger archetype

7. Lawful Good Tiefling Inquisitor

Best party. Nothing better, coolest in the adventuring business.

Celestia
2017-08-24, 07:39 PM
1. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

2. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

3. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

4. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

5. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

6. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

7. Lawful good dwarf paladin

Mike Miller
2017-08-24, 07:48 PM
1. Crusader

2. Swordsage

3. Rogue

4. Cleric

5. Wizard

6. Barbarian

7. Binder

Tohron
2017-08-24, 07:56 PM
1. Initiate of Mystra Cleric
2. Druid
3. Archivist (Warblade 1 dip for Iron Heart Surge & damage boosting options)
4. Summoner Wizard
5. Shadowcraft Mage Wizard
6. Artificer
7. Psionic Artificer

High power level, good versatility, and the Artificers can use devices to substitute for skill checks, when spells or summons aren't better.

Jaxter Gronaldi
2017-08-24, 08:05 PM
7 Artificer Gnomes. All shall bow in fear.:smalltongue:

redwizard007
2017-08-24, 09:54 PM
2 wizards
2 clerics
2 druids
1 Bard

That which can not be overcome by magic will be overwhelmed by tanking divines.

Quertus
2017-08-24, 10:03 PM
Rules:
No more than 7 party members. This isn't an
army

it's about how fun you think the party would be,

No more than 7?! But, at 3 characters per player - the scenario under which I have the most fun, which was the stated objective - that's only two and a third players! :smalleek:

Grumble, grumble, fine. I'll do what I can.

Party 1: I'm playing Quertus, my signature academia mage. Y'all can play whatever y'all want to; ideally, people at least on the same level as PO to TO fighters. Just, you know, don't expect much besides old school sage lore and logistics from me. And I'll play a second or third character as needed.

Party 2: I'll play Armus. It really doesn't matter significantly what 6 other characters everyone else brings, besides how they get along, IME.

Those are the characters I know the best and would have the most fun with. That is what is most important to my fun. So that is the best party.

But let's try to answer what the OP was asking. Hmmm... If I could completely design the party... I haven't read anyone else's responses yet, but here's my thoughts:

I'd want to run at least 2 characters, but I'd want at least 4 and ideally 5 or more players. I'd want at least two and a half healers in the party.

Here's my first pass at an implementation of that. Ideally, I'm playing #1&2, or #1&3, but I could probably play any two other than #6:

1) 2e Wild Mage, Channeler and/or Vampire (complete with 3e daywear) and/or some homebrew added in on top. I love the chaos of, "I attempt to X; what really happens is...", and the 2e Wizard mindset of fighting to recover scraps of arcane lore.

2) WoD Mage, maybe from d20 WoD, or maybe a better homebrew. Maybe from the distant past (ie, modern earth), or maybe part of a "local" chapter. Not really sure what he'd do beyond senses - he's more of a character to grow into the campaign, than having set goals. Just because I'm tired of people talking about D&D wizards breaking the laws of reality, I want this party to have someone who actually does so.

3) 2e "homebrew" / Skills and Powers Necromancer Cleric, that, like the 2e Necromancer, comes online starting at level 1. A little bit of homebrew / house rules to fix the undead / animating process to be more consistent, like 3e, would be nice (but not required) and we're golden for our army. Oh, and for healing, too.

4) 3.0 vorpal great cleave blah blah blah fighter. This guy is the workhorse.

5) 3e DMM Persist Cleric, for healing, but mostly to power...

6) 3e Rogue. This guy deals all the damage, empowered by the DMM Persist Cleric. He also handles infiltration, backup healing via wand, and a lot of other "skill monkey" roles. Ideally, the players of #5&6 are related / SO / something.

7) odd man out. Maybe a rotating seat. But a BFC Druid, as backup everything, might be nice.

The only thing missing that I'd like to see how it worked in this party, I think, is a 4e tank. Maybe hilariously Gestalt one of the characters, chosen at random, into a 4e tank?

So, #4&6 do everything; #5&7 are more the power behind the throne, #3 is minionmancy and bookkeeping, #2 changes to fit the game, and #1 is that added bit of chaos. Enough redundancy on the key bits to be resistant to attrition. Sounds like a perfect recipe to me. :smallwink:

The most important thing would be to find good players who would each bring something to the game, and would enjoy their roles in the party.

Potatomade
2017-08-24, 10:04 PM
5E: 2 variant human berserker barbarians w/ great weapon mastery, 2 variant human champion fighters w/ great weapon mastery, sentinel, and polearm master, and 2 variant human bards for support and healing.

2E: 1 Fighter, 1 Thief, and 4 Commoners (from Tales of the Lance- the amount of NWPs they get is just silly). ALTERNATE: 3 Engineers, 3 Tinkers, so long as 1E stuff is allowed too, and using the Tinker Gnome design rules from Dragonlance Adventures.

Ailowynn
2017-08-24, 10:27 PM
Is it wrong that I want to say seven bards?

Cmon. Drummer, singer, lute...ist, and a flutist, a fiddler, maybe a bagpiper, someone to play the triangle.... And then you can also delve some dungeons in the meantime.

Potatomade
2017-08-24, 10:57 PM
Oh, that would be great! As a twist on that, rather than musicians, let them be actors. They do the great deeds, then act them out for others (with some embellishments, obviously).

LordCdrMilitant
2017-08-24, 11:00 PM
Human Wizard [Buff/Debuff]
Human Wizard [Buff/Debuff]
Human Fighter [Great Weapon, Polearm, Battlemaster]
Human Fighter [Great Weapon, Ploearm, Battlemaster]
Human Cleric [Healing and Buffs]
Human Paladin [Healing and Fighting]
Human Rogue [Crossbow, Assassin]

Of course, my favorite D&D party I even GM'ed for was literally 7 Fighters and a Cleric. One fighter, and the only non-dwarf, multiclassed to Monk for a few levels, but that was it. They were a mercenary squad, and it happened on its own, and I had to stifle my laugh as we went around the table and one-by-one introduced each [rather humorous] member of this dwarven mercenary gang [and the intern]. I also learned that there could be quite a bit of variety in the fighter class.

Mikemical
2017-08-24, 11:07 PM
3.5e, all Good or Neutral. Vanilla races, though maybe the Rogue is a Kobold.

Fighter: The party's face and leader who probably has something to prove to the world and to himself.

Paladin: The Blue Oni to the Fighter's Red Oni. Tries to make the Fighter more responsible while the Rogue tries to make them loosen up.

Rogue: The cheeky trickster that the Paladin hasn't delivered to prison yet only because the Fighter says they're useful and the Cleric says they can be redeemed though their actions. Trolls everyone in the group for giggles.

Cleric: The party's comically serious one. Usually a stick in the mud though he has his moments.

Wizard: The walking encyclopedia who's only sticking around the party so they can learn about the world. He's that Yu-Gi-Oh! character that always explains what every card played does.

Bard: The Rogue's best friend and the one that usually makes sure that the party can't stick around anywhere longer than a week.

Protato
2017-08-24, 11:14 PM
Assuming I had six other players and we're doing 5e, here goes.

I always play a Bard, so I'd use my signature character Erik the Valor Bard. I give him Magic Initiate for Hex, Booming Blade, and of course Eldritch Blast, giving him a debuff and some good damage/control from first level. Coupled with Healing Word/Song of Rest and Inspiration, he can make a healer and buffer too, both in and out of battle. Studded Leather or Medium Armor (depending on what I rolled for Dex), a Shield (not the spell), and a Rapier, makes him a decent AC tank and melee damage dealer too. With a variety of skills, including face skills, he should be a good face/ skill-monkey. So yeah, we have someone that can do a bit of everything.

Secondly, we need a dedicated healer. As such, a Life Cleric with a focus on healing and buffing with damage on the side would be ideal. Cantrips, in order of being taken, would be Guidance, Spare the Dying, Sacred Flame, Thaumaturgy, Mending/Light. Bless, Aid, Cure Wounds, Healing word, and other healing spells would be the main focus, with Spiritual Weapon for a bit of extra damage.

A Barbarian would be a good character to have too, due to them being so tanky. Not so sure about the subclass. Assuming RAW, Frenzy's pretty bad due to Exhaustion. Therefore, I'd probably hope they decide to be a Barbearian or that the DM waives the Exhaustion. Beyond being a tank I'm not sure what a Barbarian can reliably do but they're so good at it, it's fine if it's all they do.

We should have a Rouge for the sake of being a skill-monkey, and for being a highly powerful single-target attacker with Sneak Attack in combat. My party's Rouge has destroyed so many enemies with Sneak Attack it's not even funny. Of course, we might be needing a scout and a Rouge can be alright at scouting too. RP-wise, they could have some sort of connections to crime, which could be handy in places.

Str Sorcadins sound fun, and would be a boss-killing nova striker. Additionally, like the Bard, they can do various things to fill in party roles with both Sorc/Paladin spells and Lay on Hands before we get to the big boss at the end of the dungeon.


Two characters left, so time to see what rolls haven't been filled and might not be compensated for. I'd think the party could use an Illusion Wizard to control the battlefield more effectively than anyone else. They also can prepare utility spells as needed. While spells like Comprehend Languages might not come into play regularly, they can be extremely useful when they're needed, and the Wizard's the guy for the job. Also, they can queue up some damage spells as needed, and with Ray of Frost, they could do a bit of control and damage at will.

Finally, a Fiend Tomelock blaster would be the last option. Warlocks already have Eldritch Blast for single-target damage, and favorites like Hypnotic Pattern, Control, Burning Hands, and Fireball would give the team additional damage/AoE and control.

Overall, how does this party look? I've never thought much about team composition before.

RazorChain
2017-08-24, 11:58 PM
1 Paladin for save buffs

6 casters to rule the world


All of them evil DMPC's with plot armor.

Kane0
2017-08-25, 12:12 AM
I've actually been lucky enough to play in my ideal party: The 'Lock Squad.

Warlock / Bard
Warlock / Cleric
Warlock / Fighter
Warlock / Paladin
Warlock / Sorcerer
Warlock / Rogue

These guys rolled like a commando team. Roguelock comes up first scouting and dealing with any problems like traps, locks and lookouts. Pallock and Fightlock rolled in second and begin to sweep the place quickly and efficiently. Last came the Bardlock, Clerlock and sorlock to deal with any remnants and take stock of the situation. If we were put on the defensive the cleric and bard focused on buffs and debuffs while the rest of us kept the heat off the sorc long enough for him to blast away the enemy.

Everybody had access to a powerful long range attack and could socialize and infiltrate well. We did as much as we could by cover of darkness and had enough redundancies to cover each other's roles in an emergency.

We were a nightmare.

Florian
2017-08-25, 12:23 AM
Ok, 6 players and gaming in the Varisia region of Golarion.

1) Male Dwarf Fighter (Foehammer) VMC Rogue. Warhammer and Shield, experienced, old, a bit gruff.
2) Male Human (Shoanti) Barbarian (Mounted Fury/Superstitious) VMC Oracle. Horse, Lance, Greatsword. Young, naive, blessed by the tribal totem and highly motivated.
3) Female Human (Varisian) Cavalier (Sister-in-Arms) VMC Bard. Sisterhood Style, Horse, Shield & Longsword, brutally scarred but very friendly and outgoing.
4) Male Human (Varisian) Wizard (Elder Mythos Scholar)/Cyphermage. A hands-on scholar, always ready to delve into ancient ruins.
5) Female Elf Oracle (Ancient Lorekeeper, Spirit Guide, Shadow Mystery). The creepy "yes, I could also be evil" kind of Oracle. A bit aloof, a bit detached.
6) Male Human (Shoanti) Skald. Beer, battle and punk rock!

Amphetryon
2017-08-25, 12:42 AM
3.5, everyone NG or LN:
Lesser Aasimar Crusader
Human Hexblade (Mearls fix)
Spellscale Fire Shugenja
Buoman Psychic Warrior
Necropolitan Darfellan Dread Necromancer
Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Totemist
Killoren Binder

Nifft
2017-08-25, 01:05 AM
Let's see, a party of 7 from any edition...


oD&D Elf (male), the fighter/magic-user in chain armor.

1e Human Bard, the fighter / thief / druid hybrid that was the first PrC.

2e Half-Elf Bard with one of the broken kits -- Blade? I dunno.

3e Human Cleric, with 3e harm/heal, and hopefully a Domain that grants 3e haste, too.

3.5e Warforged Artificer, because Warforged Artificer.

4e Dwarf Warlock, specifically a Hexhammer build, because it's hilarious in play.

5e Mountain Dwarf Abjurer, the comparably armored mage-tank to the above build.

-----------

2 x Bard
2 x Fighter
2 x Wizard + 1 Artificer
1 x Cleric
1 x Druid (casting only)

Tanks => the 2 fighters, the Cleric, maybe the 2e Bard (if it's a Blade), plus the 4e Warlock and the 5e Abjurer can both take significant punishment, and neither is unhappy to be in melee.

The only "squishy" character is the Warforged Artificer.

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-08-25, 01:31 AM
Frontliner
Healer
Damager
Skill monkey
Buffer
Face
Battlefield controller

What?

Doorhandle
2017-08-25, 02:02 AM
Frontliner
Healer
Damager
Skill monkey
Buffer
Face
Battlefield controller

What?

That's so meta that the very post has run off and started it's own thread.

Cluedrew
2017-08-25, 07:16 AM
4, 5 characters we come up with when we sit down to play. No I don't know what those are ahead of time, that takes the fun out of it.

Mordaedil
2017-08-25, 07:20 AM
7 gnome wizards, all using 2nd edition wild mage rules.

DigoDragon
2017-08-25, 07:29 AM
I think my ideal party would just be a group of people that actually cooperate for once.

Class doesn't matter if they have no class. :smalltongue:



1. Chaotic neutral kender rogue
2. Chaotic neutral kender rogue
3. Chaotic neutral kender rogue
4. Chaotic neutral kender rogue
5. Chaotic neutral kender rogue
6. Chaotic neutral kender rogue
7. Lawful good dwarf paladin

This sounds like it would be the best parody of The Hobbit ever and I'd totally read this story.

Quertus
2017-08-25, 07:38 AM
4, 5 characters we come up with when we sit down to play. No I don't know what those are ahead of time, that takes the fun out of it.

Takes the fun out of what, exactly?


7 gnome wizards, all using 2nd edition wild mage rules.

Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JAL_1138
2017-08-25, 08:28 AM
7 gnome wizards, all using 2nd edition wild mage rules.

Good Lord. I love it. But shouldn't this be in the "Things I May No Longer Do While Playing" thread? :smalltongue:

Pugwampy
2017-08-25, 09:09 AM
1. Barbarian half Orc male
2. Wizard human male
3. Priestess half elf female
4. Rogue human male
5. Archer Fighter human female
6. Blaster Sorcerer female gnome silver dragon blood
7.Towershield Barbarian male dwarf

JBPuffin
2017-08-25, 09:27 AM
Takes the fun out of what, exactly?

Something to do with organic development of the party, I'd suspect. Coming in with a group planned out ahead of time isn't as fun for some people. I've done both (make at table and make beforehand), and they're the same for me in the end, but I can see why clue might prefer their way.

I see that the original question is "best party," so obviously it's 6 3.5 clerics (all different builds, obviously) and 1 3.5 wizard. There's no question about the highest powered party there. Now, my ideal party...To make things easy, there all humans optimally configured for their class (in regards to feat/skill/ability score bonuses) and use core materials for builds unless otherwise specified:


Original Pathfinder Summoner (Broodmaster/Counter-Summoner)- Ladies and gentlemen, presenting a Magic: the Gathering character! Thinking they'd mimic Venser, focusing on teleportation and defensive magic. Eidolons will be up to player, but based on creatures a WU planeswalker could summon (I'd go with birds - lots of different birds).
4e Valorous Bard - Another Charisma caster, I know, but this one is melee-oriented whereas the above is trying to stay out of melee whenever they can. Exact build isn't my expertise anymore, but sword-and-board is probably a good idea.
4e Monk/Avenger - Maximize movement options between monk Movement Techniques and avenger powers like Overwhelming Strike and Deadly Stride. Put that striker/controller role to use!
4e Paladin - Easy to build out of the gate: Screw Int, leave Dex and Con out for the most part, and gun for Str/Cha equally followed by Wis. Grab powers that help your allies and keep you in the thick of things, and use your feats to shore up your weaknesses (Reflex, initiative, unusually low HP) before emphasizing your strengths.
5e Fighter 4 - Dual-wields hand crossbows. Archetype is undecided, but I'm liking the looks of the UA Samurai. Crossbow Master and Archery Style from level 1, Sharpshooter at 4, then pump Dex and Con while just laying into people with a hailstorm of bolts.
5e Wu Jen Mystic - One of our substitutes for a wizard; focusing on blowing crap up as vehemently as possible.
5e Artificer - The other wizard supplement. They can probably build anything and be fine, but an Alchemist would be pretty cool.


Next on the chopping block: PTU Trainer+Squad. This is my run at the VG protagonist as I would take on the mantle.

Trainer: Mentor/Ace Trainer/Capture Specialist/Backpacker - Just an average Joe on a gotta-catch-em-all quest.
Starter: Mudkip -> Swampert - Why yes, you heard correctly: I do liek Mudkipz. Starting in Hoenn complicates the journey somewhat, but we'll manage.
Second-in-Command: Ralts -> Gallade - A brawler with a sense of justice. I can get behind that. Leaves us with at least two before we leave Hoenn, probably three if we grab B
The Plant: Oddish -> Bellossom - Because Bellossom is awesome blossom sauce.
Token Bug: Joltik -> Galvantula - I love Galvantula and Volcarona both, but for this setup, I'd rather have the former. Now we're travelling, and while we're at it we'll grab
Spooky!: Golett -> Golurk - I had to choose between a ghost and a rock, so I figured hey, Golett's a good middle ground. Another region migration, and we finally grab
Firebringer: Litten -> Incineroar - The driving force behind me buying Moon (now in my friend's permanent possession). I mean, it's a cat that lights things on fire and grows up to be evil. What's not to love?

This is exactly the list I would want as a trainer; Mudkip and Litten take center stage, and with the addition of legendaries things change (Jirachi, Shaymin, Latios, and Meloetta take those last four spots instead), but I assume I won't be catching a demi-deity anytime soon.

Okay, a new one: Cryptomancer, the wonderful game of fantasy cybersecurity (note: as race does not affect statistics, it's not a factor for character design, but I'd lean towards dwarves for the and , elves for the and , and humans for the and ).
The Medic: High Knowledge and Willpower, takes the Code and Dagger healing spell Shard Balm and/or Healing Hands and the Medic talent at bare minimum, with the rest depending on how much magery they want to do vs alchemy. Either way, more valuable behind the scenes than on the front lines more likely than not.
The Face: High Presence, Attractive, Entertainer, Likable, Intimidating, Liar, Silver Tongue, and one of Highborn or Lowborn (their choice). Whatever other natural talents they have, they're literally THE person in charge of winning people over. Good luck talking to this guy ^_^.
The Sniper: High Speed, Sniper, Return Fire, and Spider. Get up high and rain down on the opponents, using Precise Melee as backup.
The Brawler: Needs good Speed and Power, but focusing on one or the other. Brawler, Grappler, Death from Above or Martial Artist, and Polevaulter (because it's cool). Every team should have one.
The Soldier: Needs high Power, and a decent balance of the rest. Veteran, Riposte, and Reaver - just clears out hoards.
The Sorcerer (x2): High Willpower, just cast a bunch of spells. Magus and whatever combination of spells they want, so long as they don't overlap too much. Their secondary abilities and selections are what would distinguish them.


The thing about Cryptomancer is, every option is cool. I've seen few games so capable of making sure every angle is interesting,
and yet they've done it nigh-on flawlessly. Which is good, because while individual death isn't too likely, TPKs aren't so uncommon (thanks, Risk Eaters :smallbiggrin:). So, while this is one way of doing things, you could just as easily have completely different teams who still cover every niche, perhaps more spread out between characters (ie, both a soldier-type and hacker with healing, a sniper with AoE magic alongside a craftsman who does well with a gun, a dashing rogue doubling as thief and face with a celebrity athlete, et cetera).

Cluedrew
2017-08-25, 09:52 AM
Something to do with organic development of the party, I'd suspect.Pre-planning things does take a lot of the discovery out of the game. Plus putting them together as we go just seems to lead to better results, I guess you can hone in on the "right" answer better that way. Third I like to get the input from the other players. There is almost someone (or multiple people) who creates a character that I like but I would never create myself.

Lord Torath
2017-08-25, 10:28 AM
Human Paladin - sword, lance, spear, and mace, and shield. A giant tiger mount is optional (and probably negates the need for a lance. Replace it with a Longbow).
Half-Giant Gladiator with a mix of melee and missile weapons. Some spelljamming may be required to assemble this party
Thri-kreen psionicist (telepathist/metapsionicist) with the Tekchackak (Pack Psionicist) kit. Information gathering (Probe), communications (Mind Link + Psychic Surgery), and scouting (Life Detection). Again, spelljamming may be required. But that's okay, because Spelljammer is fun!
Cleric (of the same faith as the Paladin). Mace, Warhammer, and Sling
Wild Mage - Blaster/Utility spells. 'cuz Wild Mages are cool! And as a defense against any Decks of Many Things or Wands of Wonder or Bags of Tricks or similar magic items the DM might decide to throw our way. Proficient in Dagger (then staff, then sling)
Halfling Thief. All the curiosity of a kender, but with a better understanding of the concept personal property (and lacking the lack of fear).
Elven Fighter/mage. Buffing and utility spells, specializing (and eventual Grand Mastery) in the Longbow. And maybe a pet Cooshee.

Ideally, I'd add another mage (illusion and charm spells, with some utility) and another cleric of the same faith as the other, allowing the use of cooperative spells. One could focus on offense and buffing, while the other could focus on healing and utility. Plus combine Prayer and Chant. But that's a party of 9, not seven.

2D8HP
2017-08-25, 10:36 AM
In TSR D&D?

1) Magic-User with the sleep or charm monster spell (substitute with a multi-classes Elf, if available).

2) Cleric.

3) Dwarf Fighter (if Dungeon delving)

4) Thief if available (post Greyhawk)

5) The rest Fighters

WotC 5e?
.

1) Two Fighter/Rogues with the Defense Fighting Style and Uncanny Dodge to stand next to the antagonist.

2) Three Fighter/Rogues with the Archery Fighting Style and Sneak Attack to fill the enemy with arrows.

3) Two Rogues with Expertise in Perception and Stealth to be scouts.

CharonsHelper
2017-08-25, 10:50 AM
I always kinda wanted to play a Pathfinder boy-band group - all different archetypes so that their songs stack.

1. The Jock (Arcane Duelist - gets basic songs)

2. The Smart One (Archivist)

3. The Snarky One (Court Bard)

4. The Metal Head (Skald: Spell Warrior as the rest of the group are likely Dex builds)

5. Manager (Mesmerist - grab the gaze which makes everything vulnerable to mind-affecting stuff)

wumpus
2017-08-25, 10:53 AM
Frontliner
Healer
Damager
Skill monkey
Buffer
Face
Battlefield controller

What?

Ok,
Frontliner=Paladin (possibly Barbarian thanks to traditional Paladin issues)
Healer=Cleric
Damage Dealer= Barbarian (or fighter, especially if Frontliner is also a barbarian)
Skill monkey = rogue (also deals damage).
Buffer = Bard
Face = ??? : Not a D&D role, handled in town by whoever.
Battlefield Controller = wizard

Now the big issue is to fix the D&D rules so that everyone can play their role via their class.
AD&D issues: Rogues were ok skillmonkeys (somewhat limited), but damage output was *extremely limited* to single (huge) strikes and being a glass (small) cannon. Bards were in the appendix for a reason in 1e, not sure if they were functional in 2e. Paladins are set up to fail (or micromanage the group) across the editions (maybe not 4-5, not sure how that effects the flavor of a paladin).
3.x issues: My ideal party isn't all full casters. That requires major surgery to the rules.
4 issues: I've heard 4e is a good game, but I'm not convinced it is D&D (the prerelease marketing was unspeakably bad, it may have overshadowed the game too much).
5 issues: would the above make a good party?

Quertus
2017-08-25, 01:43 PM
Original Pathfinder Summoner (Broodmaster/Counter-Summoner)- Ladies and gentlemen, presenting a Magic: the Gathering character! Thinking they'd mimic Venser, focusing on teleportation and defensive magic. Eidolons will be up to player, but based on creatures a WU planeswalker could summon (I'd go with birds - lots of different birds).

On an almost completely unrelated note, I've actually been playtesting a MtG class for 2e D&D. To put it in more modern parlance, the floor and ceiling are much closer together than most classes, and it's currently balanced for the higher end of 2e optimization. The only "themed" character I built with that class summoned cats.

But I so loved the added layer of connection to the world of trying to tag everything and turn it into a magic card that I was tempted to include this homebrew in my "ideal party".


Something to do with organic development of the party, I'd suspect. Coming in with a group planned out ahead of time isn't as fun for some people. I've done both (make at table and make beforehand), and they're the same for me in the end, but I can see why clue might prefer their way.


Pre-planning things does take a lot of the discovery out of the game. Plus putting them together as we go just seems to lead to better results, I guess you can hone in on the "right" answer better that way. Third I like to get the input from the other players. There is almost someone (or multiple people) who creates a character that I like but I would never create myself.

Ok, I love the drop-in mentality of a bunch of random people with random stats getting together - the challenge of making the best of what you've got. These modern games with their point buy and their planned parties miss out on the whole "how the **** are we going to accomplish anything with this" minigame.


Wild Mage - Blaster/Utility spells. 'cuz Wild Mages are cool! And as a defense against any Decks of Many Things or Wands of Wonder or Bags of Tricks or similar magic items the DM might decide to throw our way. Proficient in Dagger (then staff, then sling)

I just love all the love Wild Mages are getting!

SirBellias
2017-08-25, 04:57 PM
If I were to make a squad, I'd probably reuse characters I've made, then fill in the gaps.

1. Aust Sienna, Witch/Druid turned criminal. He's the proverbial leader with a nonexistent moral compass.

2. Solomon, Kobold Totemist. Because every team needs a horrendously bad pet.

3. Draugves, Wood Elf Evolutionist (Plant focused support). I've always loved Draken's Homebrew, and this was the only one I've (almost) got to play.

4. Some sort of cleric to balance the morality a bit back to neutral that's willing to look past some pretty harsh character flaws in the name of redemption.

5. Shandra Jerro (Name stolen once again), an NPC from one of my games. An fairly gifted Necromancer/Golemancer with a penchant for causing chaos.

6. Some sort of lizardfolk to act as a big brother to Solomon. Possibly a rogue.

If new characters are necessary, I may have entirely different answers.

Celestia
2017-08-25, 05:08 PM
I think my ideal party would just be a group of people that actually cooperate for once.

Class doesn't matter if they have no class. :smalltongue:




This sounds like it would be the best parody of The Hobbit ever and I'd totally read this story.
I can only imagine how much suffering that poor dwarf would endure.

HidesHisEyes
2017-08-26, 03:32 AM
Fighter, rogue, cleric and wizard. I'm serious, I love the idea of playing in a party with just the default four basic character types. And they're not unusual original takes on them either, they are full-on archetypes. As far as I can tell, very few people want to do this because it's "boring". Not sure how they know it would be boring when they've never done it because they thought it would be boring, but hey, to each their own.

Edit: just remembered I have actually done it in a solo game my gf ran for me in which I played all four.

Marssen the fighter: a jaded mercenary.

Elise the rogue: a street urchin on the run from gangs.

Gantz the cleric: a washed up former alcoholic priest on a mission to prove himself to Lathander after being given one last chance.

Vuzo the wizard: a mysterious forest gnome hedge wizard who rarely talks.

Melcar
2017-08-26, 08:24 AM
I would go classic

1 Melee (Tank)
1 Melee (DPS)
1 Ranged (Rogue) (Utility/dps)
1 Wizard (Utility/dps)
1 Cleric (Healer/utility)

However I would make the following if I had enough players

1 Dwarf Fighter (Tank)
1 Human Fighter (Dual-weilding) (DPS)
1 Human Paladin (Off-tank/ DPS)
1 Elven Fighter (Ranged) (DPS)
1 Human Rogue (Skill monkey/Ranged DPS)
1 Human Bard (Buffer/Utility/)
1 Human Wizard (God/Batman)
1 Star elf Sorceres (Utility/DPS)
1 Aasimar Cleric/ Radiant Servant of Pelor (Healbot/buffer)

It has been a dream of mine to play with such a large party for a high epic game!

Tanarii
2017-08-26, 11:03 AM
1 Elven Archer, 1 Drow TWF Ranger, 1 Scottish Dwarf, 1 Lawful Stupid Paladin, 1 happy-go-lucky Kender, 1 Sold-his-soul edgelord warlock, and 1 vampires-murdered-my-parents edgelord monster Hunter.

This is often the kind of table I end up with whenever I run an open table. Lucky me. :smallamused:

Quertus
2017-08-26, 02:40 PM
If this thread was supposed to be about power instead of fun, I suppose I could answer that way, too.

Hmmm... Party of 7, viable from level 1, maximum power. What tricks am I willing to admit to?

Let's make all the characters different. And, in my 2e vs 3e thread, there was a question on the length of the round in 2e. While we could ignore it when talking about fun, it would be disingenuous to ignore such a detail when discussing optimization. But we can still get some mileage out of 2e.

1) 2e Vampire Wild Mage. Vampires can get the ability to cast a 1st level spell at will. Choose Nahal's Reckless Dwoemer. Even at only one casting per minute, that's, what, 1,440 castings per day, for an average of 14.4 new magic items per day? Make sure to start with Metamorphose Liquids in your spell book, for more free stuff. If we can get a ruling that undead are immune to poison, we can even have our vampire use Metamorphose Liquids to create an unlimited supply of poison. Use Skills and Powers, take Channeller, hope to get Stone Skin by level 3, and Animate Dead by level 5. With extreme amounts of luck, the party could be nearly immune to physical attacks, and you can start building an army of the undead with your infinite control pool. And you also have access to the near infinite power of 2e illusions.

But we can do the unread army better.

2) 2e Necromancer. Thanks to the Animate Dead Animal spell, you can start building your infinite army of the undead at level 1. And everyone getting to go 10 times before your undead army takes their first action is very thematic.

But we can do better.

Wizards need to be trained. Have a mentor with a Ring of Spell Storing. Have him store Magic Jar for you. Use Magic Jar. Possess an ancient dragon. Mentor destroys gem. Congratulations, you now permanently have a dragon body, complete with lots of HP - almost enough to make you competitive with a 3e character at higher levels.

Better still, instead of a simple dragon, make it a custom creature that your mentor has been using all the cool 2e Necromancy spells to create over the years. Something with, say, 10+ actions, so that, with a kind house rule, you can actually act at the same rate as the 3e characters; otherwise, you're really not playing the same game. Which is fine.

But if you want to not only play the same game, but try to win that game, a 3e multi-headed dragon isn't a bad option.

For the other 5 characters, we're looking at 3e. So, eh, an Elan Beholder Mage is probably playable. A Wizard / Tainted Sorcerer for all the spells, and an Arcane Spellcaster / Tainted Sorcerer for free castings of spells like True Resurrection. A DMM Persist Cleric for healing and buffs.

For the last character, an Illithid Savant would be nice. But not very playable at low level. Under Pathfinder rules, maybe, with the right templates, it could be competitive starting at level 1.

If we wanted to maximize low-level power, we could replace the Illithid Savant with a 2e Spell Dancer, to, among other things, put Stone Skin on the party starting at level 1.

Lastly, make the entire party actually <I've forgotten the name, the paintings from Pathfinder>. Put the paintings on a fast time plane, so that, when they "die", they can quickly return to active duty.

There's a lot more I could do, but I think that this has the beginnings of a very powerful 7 man party.

Guizonde
2017-08-26, 03:08 PM
i'll go with digo on this one as well: people who work well together.

currently, i'm in a pf game where there are 5 divines and 1 bard, it's working great: cayden caillean's finest brew crew:

faces: inquisitor and oracle.
tanking: monk and paladin.
healing: oracle, cleric, paladin
critter and luck control: oracle and bard
damage: inquisitor (battlefield control), monk, paladin.
buffs: oracle, inquisitor, cleric, bard.
skill monkey business: bard and inquisitor.

basically, the inquisitor and oracle call the shots in combat. one by virtue of being militarily trained, the other because she sees into the future. (ooc, it's because me and the oracle are the most experienced players, thus the face roles too) turns out that this team is really balanced. we might not throw fireballs, but all but one being casters makes us really share redundancy allowing us to start fights in pincer moves or set up ambushes that are ruthlessly overkill. in general my inquisitor is hitting from above so i can jump in to support whoever needs it, plus activating my teamwork bonuses where they're most useful. the paladin and the monk are chewing across enemies until they high-five, the cleric and oracle are behind the heavy hitters, and the bard and inquisitor kite the fight, one on land, one in the scenery (trees, rigging, masts, chandeliers, rafters...)

the campaign has been on hiatus for 2 months due to college holidays and until mid-september, but we got to see what crazy hijinks a bard, a paladin, and an inquisitor could pull off if supported by an oracle. iirc, we hit a .5 henderson accidentally. our dm headdesked so we reigned it back.

.... all that because the cleric wanted to own a pet camel and i insisted it wear a fez...

FreddyNoNose
2017-08-26, 03:12 PM
The Ideal party would have lots of snacks and drinks as well as some tasty food. The chairs should be comfortable and the dice new!

Lord Torath
2017-08-26, 04:57 PM
1) 2e Vampire Wild Mage. Vampires can get the ability to cast a 1st level spell at will. Choose Nahal's Reckless Dwoemer. Even at only one casting per minute, that's, what, 1,440 castings per day, for an average of 14.4 new magic items per day? You forgot about result 40: One magical item within 30' of caster becomes permanently drained. And nothing says you know that an item has become magical, so unless you're casting Detect Magic after each Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, you're likely to lose just as many as you gain. Everything else on that list is going to happen 14.4 times per day as well, which means you will have 7.2 outer-planar creatures appearing each day. Probably no more than half of them will be friendly. :smallamused:

Quertus
2017-08-26, 08:31 PM
You forgot about result 40: One magical item within 30' of caster becomes permanently drained. And nothing says you know that an item has become magical, so unless you're casting Detect Magic after each Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, you're likely to lose just as many as you gain. Everything else on that list is going to happen 14.4 times per day as well, which means you will have 7.2 outer-planar creatures appearing each day. Probably no more than half of them will be friendly. :smallamused:

I didn't forget about result 40 - just don't have any magical items near the vampire! Unless you're using her as a cheesy Remove Curse, that is.

Do I have to spell this out? Fine. The vampire floats naked in the void. Within her range are a selection of items that the party hopes become something useful: weapons, armor, wands, dice, backpacks, bags, whatever. Just outside her range, one for each item, are weirwood splinters. When the item becomes enchanted, the corresponding splinter glows. When a splinter glows, one of the vampire's henchmen, undead, friends, whatever, removes the item, perhaps replacing it with another.

Or just Skills & Powers yourself some persistent Arcane Sight. Or pay someone to give someone permanent Detect Magic. Or whatever. Removing the enchanted items is a solvable problem.

As to the unfriendly extraplanar creatures... Yes, the plan does seem to come with free loot and XP. It's not like much of anything can permakill a vampire, after all. But, if we give our vampire a good charisma, reaction adjustment says that most will be friendly. Still, it could be a problem if we actually encounter one of the few scary creatures, if we don't pick one of the billion planar locked locations GMs have created throughout the multiverse.

2D8HP
2017-08-26, 08:51 PM
5e: six Paladins with "Entertainer" backgrounds and one Rogue with either "Charlatan", "Criminal", or "Guild Merchant" background (the manager).

"Charged by their Celestial masters with the mission to bring heavy-duty Rock n' Roll to a world in dire need of it and to FIGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO PARTY!"
Just so damn metal!
:biggrin:

Or... "WARLOCKS OF ROCK", "Charged by their Infernal masters" is even more hella metal..

Ooh, a battle royal for THE SOUL OF ROCK 'N ROLL!
Now that's a campaign!

Vknight
2017-08-27, 11:57 AM
Lets expand to a general game sense.

D&D/Pathfinder
At least 1 Wizard : Chaotic Good : You need a powerful magic user too hold things up too later and be at times a blaster
1 Rogue/Bard : Chaotic Good : A character with a high skill cap provides a lot of options for the group dynamic besides combat
1 Fighter/Barbarian : Neutral Good : The big bulky hitter is a fun thing too round it out, he bashes and smashes and lays the ground down
1 Ranger/Druid : Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral or Chaotic Good : A character with an animal companion is a fun edition because puppies are great
1 Cleric/Paladin : Lawful Good or Neutral Good : The religious character makes up for things by making the group have a moral center for keeping the party coordinated and be the leader

Eclipse Phase
Ultimate Spymaster : Because the Ultimate's are fairly interesting and including one whose gimmick is built around the use of subterfuge rather then raw power is unique
Poet/Mars University Professor and former LOST Project member : They provide an art angle with also a teacher vibe it makes for a fun role reversal from normal LOST members
The A.G.I. Technician : Built around all the technical skills maybe not the greatest of hackers this guy provides the backbone too the parties technical needs
Fall Evacuee or some other Fish out of water type : Having the character who grew up on earth or in a different part of the solar system and dropping them into a new location for the game start is a super fun thing doubly so with some criminal contacts a general utility as the combat shred machine and other such things
Uplift : Because every party needs an uplift just that. Probably the most well rounded with some combat to protect from haters, some tech too helps out, and some social too win others over all to build a comprehensive little character

8BitNinja
2017-08-27, 06:58 PM
If you want power and fun, 7 clerics.

Celestia
2017-08-27, 07:08 PM
If you want power and fun, 7 clerics.
All worshipping a different god.

Lord Raziere
2017-08-27, 09:45 PM
Lets expand to a general game sense.


YES! now I can have some real fun:

Exalted:
1. Malfean Slayer Caste Infernal. you need some brute force. give them a big sword that shoot green flame from it
2. Orichalcum Caste brilliant mad scientist who is a complete optimist and idealist
3. Chosen of Endings spymaster who views Creation like a garden that needs to be weeded.
4. Lunar Changing Moon caste, because you need someone to be the diplomat
5. Abyssal Dusk Caste, because you need someone to be the inspiring leader of war
6. Liminal who looks like a scarecrow, she wields a trident as her weapon.
7. Air Aspect Dynast who wields a spear and uses sorcery, the only sane woman of the group

Pokemon fan rpgs:
1. A Delphox
2. A Gardevoir
3. A Lucario
4. A Salamence
5. A Bisharp
6. A Milotic
7. Their trainer, who wants to catch Mew

Anima Beyond Fantasy RPG:
1. Vetala Nephilim with the Existence Eater and Eyes of Death Bloodlines and use of Nemesis Ki
2. Duk'zarist Nephilim, wields a sword and fire magic
3. Daimah Nephilim, illusionist and with rogue-ish skills
4. D'anjayni Nephilim, assassins creed style assassin
5. Jayan Nephilim, warrior mentalist who is quite the scholar
6. Sylvain Nephilim, wields a sword and Water magic
7. Tuan Dalyr, the healer and werefox

2D8HP
2017-08-27, 11:34 PM
Lets expand to a general game sense.


Okay!

For Pendragon:


1) Knight

2) Knight

3) Knight

4) Knight

5) Knight

6) Knight

7) Squire


A perfect diverse party!

Pugwampy
2017-08-28, 03:06 AM
If you want power and fun, 7 clerics.

And all of them do everything in their power to avoid using the dreaded cure spells .....:smallbiggrin:

sengmeng
2017-08-28, 06:01 AM
In a video game I once ran a party of 3 rogues, 3 clerics. It worked hilariously well; clerics tank, heal, blast undead, tactically cast summon monster I to provide flanks for the rogues, rogues do sneaky stuff and murder everything with a pulse. Only elemental and constructs provided a challenge, and with so much healing available they could be ground down (and with good domain choices, elementals could be turned and rebuked).

LordCdrMilitant
2017-08-28, 07:48 AM
Lets expand to a general game sense.

Dark Heresy:
Guardsman
Guardsman
Guardsman
Guardsman
Guardsman
Guardsman
Guardsman

You can never go wrong with more Guardsmen.

8BitNinja
2017-08-28, 06:01 PM
A general sense now?

Final Fantasy 1... With 7 party members

Fighter
Fighter
Thief
Black Mage
White Mage
Red Mage
Black Belt

Or

Black Belt
Black Belt
Black Belt
Black Belt
Black Belt
Black Belt
White Mage

Celestia
2017-08-28, 07:49 PM
Lets expand to a general game sense.
Pokémon:

Gardevoir: My favorite of all time
Trace/Pixilate
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
Hyper Voice
Psychic
Gardevoirite

Aegislash: Probably second favorite
Stance Change
King's Shield
Rock Slide
Sacred Sword
Shadow Claw
Leftovers

Pangoro: Because pandas are cool
Iron Fist
Ice Punch
Earthquake
Drain Punch
Crunch
Expert Belt

Lapras: The best way to take out a water type is with another water type
Water Absorb
Psychic
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Surf
Assault Vest

Ferrothorn: For tanking
Iron Barbs
Curse
Leech Seed
Gyro Ball
Power Whip
Rocky Helmet

Flygon: To round out the type balance
Levitate
Fire Punch
Rock Slide
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Muscle Band

Toucannon: The green ranger
Skill Link
Bullet Seed
Rock Blast
Brick Break
Beak Blast
King's Rock

Faily
2017-08-28, 08:03 PM
A group of 4-6 PCs made by players who get along fine and know how to work together regardless of party-composition. :smallwink: (luckily, that is the majority of groups I play with)

Of the parties I have been in, the most ideal was our War of the Burning Sky-party:

1. Lawful Good Elf Paladin
2. Lawful Good Dwarf Knight
3. Lawful Good Dwarf Cleric of Moradin
4. Neutral Good Halfling Conjurer-Wizard (non-summoning type)

That party worked like a magnificent clockwork where the only tension between the PCs just created more interesting story dynamic (the dwarves may or may not have regretted at some point in making the elf the party-diplomat when it came to negotiating with a certain elf emperor :smallbiggrin: ). The cleric and wizard managed a smooth handling of spell-resources for the party, the Knight was an indestructable tank, and the paladin tended to hit things dead very fast.

Nifft
2017-08-29, 01:47 AM
So, thinking a bit further on this, here's my thoughts on an ideal 3.5e D&D party...

Core Four

Scout 1 / Druid 19 (taking Able Learner at level 1, Natural Spell at level 5, and Swift Avenger + Improved Skirmish whenever)
- Scout gives her stealth skills and Trapfinding. Plus lots of other skills. Plus Skirmish.
- Wild Shape + Skirmish damage is fun on a Pounce shape.
- Wild Shape probably subsumes stealth skills at higher level, but having both is good.

Spellthief 1 / Transmuter 5 / Unseen Seer 10 / Fatespinner 4 (taking Able Learner at level 1, and Master Spellthief whenever)
- This is the other Trapfinding character.
- 5 levels of Transmuter specifically for access to Spontaneous Divination, since Divinations are heavily favored by Unseen Seer.
- Spelltheif has stealth skills; Able Learner allows us to keep them leveled.
- Stealing spells probably won't come up often, but who cares. The extra skills & weapon proficiencies will be useful at very low levels; the sneak attack stacking with Unseen Seer will be nice at the mid-levels, and at high levels we might actually Shapechange + Gravestrike + Pounce to lift a bunch of spells off a Lich.

Cloistered Cleric 5 (Knowledge, Trickery, Fire) / Keeper of the Cerulean Sign 10 / Thaumaturgist (?) 5 (taking Able Learner at level 1)
- Full caster Cleric, with 6+Int skill points for 15 levels, across a good skill list.
- Fire is there in case he needs to pick a deity: sup, Loki. Also to fuel Fiery Burst at higher levels. Also for more Turn Undead attempts (DMM).
- Not really sure about Thaumaturgist. Something else should probably go there.
- Stealth skills from level 1 (full Bluff, Disguise, and Hide; half Move Silently).

Mystic Wildshape Ranger 5 / Master of Many Forms 10 / Nature's Warrior 5
- Pretty simple, just a shape-changer with a couple spells.
- Starting race is probably human for the feat.
- Ranger gives spells, martial weapons, full BAB, and skills for Survival & stealth & perception. What more does a man need?
- A man also needs the ability to turn into a bear. Fortunately he's got that too.
- Low-level tank & point-man; mid-level meat-shield (thanks to tough forms becoming available); high-level weird spellcaster (as Supernatural abilities become available).
- One interesting thought: take Sword of the Arcane Order to cast Arcane spells, and cap off the build with Abjurant Champion 5 instead of Nature's Warrior. Might be legal. Certainly would be nice to have a higher caster level and beefier Greater Luminous Armor.


The key thing here: everybody can stealth. There is no loner Rogue scouting ahead. Everybody scouts ahead together. They can sneak past boring fights. They're 3/4 casters with T1 builds so they can drop the hammer of a very powerful and wrathful god after they've snuck into position.

Some of them can also handle social situations, especially the ones involving Disguise or Bluff.

They are basically a fantasy Special Ops team.



Optional additions
pick up to 3

Human Swordsage 2 / Cloistered Cleric 3 (Knowledge, Inquisition, Mind) / Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 / Legacy Champion 5 (taking Able Learner and Martial Study at level 1, Martial Stance at level 3, and Adaptive Style whenever)
- A partial-caster Cleric who knows kung fu. Strong as a backup & general support.
- Martial Study and Martial Stance are for access to Devoted Spirit.
- Primary focus is probably Shadow Hand, with a bit of Devoted Spirit. Some of the high-level stances are amazing.
- Legacy Champion advances RKV. We ought to get one 9th level Maneuver.
- Swordsage at first level means access to stealth skills at low levels.

Binder 1 / Conjurer 3 / Anima Mage 10 / Escalation Mage 6 (taking Improved Binding at level 1, and Extend Spell at level 3)
- For low-level Stealth, she's reliant on Binder tricks:
-> Leraje gives +4 to Hide;
-> Malphas gives invisibility which costs a full-round action, lasts for 1 round, and then you can't use it for 5 rounds;
-> Naberius has disguise self at-will, and makes her decent at social interaction -- that may be her best "stealth" until Wizard magic comes online.
- Vestige Metamagic means access to Persistent Spell abuse.
- Escalation Mage means more metamagic abuse.
- This is a character who's bad at stealth until Persist-o-mancy comes online -- and she'll probably want to use those for something else. Not a perfect fit.

Changeling Telepath 5 / Psi Mindbender 1 / Anarchic Initiate 7 / Elocator 7 (uses the adapted Psi Mindbender from C.Arc, as usual takes Able Learner at level 1, and Mindsight whenever)
- Socially adept shape-changer who can nova pretty hard.
- Loses 2 manifeser levels, but gains them back and more with Anarchic Initiate.
- Elocator gives some constant benefits and some under-leveled powers (teleport and plane shift), good for a skirmisher; the price is two bad feats and one mediocre feat.
- Optimal progression would probably mix in Anarchic Initiate and Elocator: 3 levels Anarchic Initiate to meet the BAB prereq for Spring Attack at ECL 9, then all 7 Elocator, then the last 4 Anarchic Initiate.
- Could go Egoist instead -- nice Changeling racial sub levels -- but then we'd need to buy psi charm with a feat, and some Mindbender prereq skills would be cross-class (though Able Learner makes that moot).
- This is a character who's bad at stealth until Elocator hits at ECL 10, and by that time mundane stealth is probably irrelevant, so yeah. Not a perfect fit.

Changeling Rogue 5 / Chameleon 10 / Cabinet Trickster 5 (Able Learner at level 1)
- Generic Chameleon build.
- Standard Changeling Rogue sub levels.
- Interesting force multiplier, since the items she crafts from low-level spells are usable by other characters.
- Trades away Trapfinder due to Changeling racial subs, so she's not going to replace either of the core four trapfinders, but she's probably fantastic at the social game. Take with if the low-level campaign is going to be more urban intrigue.
- Walks a fine line between "redundant" and "perfect replacement killer".

Bard 2 / Druid 3 / Green Whisperer 5 / Fochlucan Lyrist 10 (Shape Soulmeld: impulse boots + Open Least Chakra: feet, both before level 10)
- Take Druid ACFs which throw away Wild Shape, since she'll never see Wild Shape.
- This is basically a Bard 17 / Druid 18, with good Bardic skills and music, but none of the usual Druid features (and all of the usual Bard features).
- Bardic stealth & social skills are good; plus she can Wild Empathy the guard dogs into not barking. Maybe.
- Dragonfire Inspiration is a good thing so probably a Dragonblood race. Why are there no racial sub levels for a Kobold Bard?!


Anyway, the top four are my ideal party, and then I can't figure out what to do with the last 3 slots.

bulbaquil
2017-08-29, 06:07 AM
Pathfinder, under the house rules I prefer to run under given the chance (namely, Spheres of Power as the exclusive magic system with limit of 1 advanced talent per character, and a variant of automatic bonus progression):

1 CG human barbarian, for brawn.
1 CG half-elf unchained rogue, for sneaky.
1 NG merfolk bard, for metal.
1 LG tiefling paladin, for pathos.
1 LN dwarf mageknight, for elf/dwarf RP banter.
1 TN human incanter, for magical wisdom.
1 CN elf symbiat, for mental intrigue.

D&D 5e, under the house rules I prefer to run under given the chance (close to RAW, but among other minor changes grid-based combat with flanking similar to Pathfinder)

1 CG hill dwarf battlerager barbarian, for brawn and tanking
1 NG variant human battlemaster fighter, for more brawn and for tactical prowess
1 CG half-elf swashbuckler rogue, for flanking and panache
1 NG human college-of-lore bard, for general knowledge and for heals
1 NG/CG wood elf life domain cleric of anyone but Lathander, for speedy recovery
1 TN variant human arcane trickster rogue, for backup trapfinding and magical prowess
1 LE tiefling sorcerer, for magical prowess and to take over the kingdom after all the CG/NG guys finish saving it

Hackmaster:

7 of whatever the dice come up


Is it wrong that I want to say seven bards?

Cmon. Drummer, singer, lute...ist, and a flutist, a fiddler, maybe a bagpiper, someone to play the triangle.... And then you can also delve some dungeons in the meantime.

For Pathfinder:
- 4 half-elf skalds, all with the free Skill Focus applied to Perform
- 2 half-elf sandman bards, both with the free Skill Focus applied to Perform, in case there are traps.
- 1 cleric of some Wisdom-boosting race, worshiping a deity of music, beauty, or something else "bardic", to keep the band together and in case they encounter any divine magic

Jay R
2017-08-29, 08:25 PM
My approach is so different from everybody else's, that it's either worthless or a valuable new perspective.

1. Character played by somebody who knows the system extremely well, can find a rule quickly, but doesn’t get annoyed when the DM rules against his interpretation.

2. Character run by a player who really loves fantasy, who gets deeply into character, and whose mood is infectious.

3. Martial character run by person not that into the rules, but with a good sense of tactics and who loves mock battle.

4. Party face run by a player who is good at talking, fun to listen to, and always in character.

5. Character run by skeptic who questions the party’s plan, points out flaws, but doesn’t push for endless argument.

6. Character played by new role-player, for whom it is all still shiny and glorious, who reacts to a vampire or chimera with awe and excitement, rather than rules-driven tactics.

7. Character played by me, in the best game ever.

Hackulator
2017-08-29, 09:36 PM
My ideal party, for having fun, would be as follows (I'm going with the standard 4 person party):

Sorcerer focusing on utility with a little blastiness

Cleric who generally focuses on healing and buffing/support (but as a cleric can switch it up when needed)

Fighter

Rogue

People may call me a boring traditionalist, but this is a fun party.

I chose sorcerer because they have close to the power and utility of a wizard without the game breaking ability to have the magic bullet spell for any situation. They are fun to play but they don't bog down the game time wise as much as a wizard and can't always find a spell to fix any problem. They can also serve as the party face.

Cleric is just the best support for a group in general. They usually don't dominatingly outshine everyone the way a druid can but are simultaneously slightly better support. Even when a cleric is actually the most powerful character in a party, they usually do that by helping other classes feel powerful.

The reason I chose fighter is because while on their own a fighter isn't the best martial, their feats give them the ability to do a lot of things well and with proper support from the casters they can be a serious damage output powerhouse. At high levels a fighter can have multiple utility feats as well as chains that allow him to just drop massive damage on things when needed.

The rogue rounds out the party, bringing a large number of skills the other characters are probably lacking and also being able to output a large amount of damage in the right situations. Like the fighter, he may not be the best class on their own but with support from the other party members they can do some awesome stuff.

So there it is, people may say its boring, but sometimes something is the archetype because it's the best.

JBPuffin
2017-08-30, 01:32 AM
My ideal party, for having fun, would be as follows (I'm going with the standard 4 person party):

Sorcerer focusing on utility with a little blastiness

Cleric who generally focuses on healing and buffing/support (but as a cleric can switch it up when needed)

Fighter

Rogue

People may call me a boring traditionalist, but this is a fun party.

I chose sorcerer because they have close to the power and utility of a wizard without the game breaking ability to have the magic bullet spell for any situation. They are fun to play but they don't bog down the game time wise as much as a wizard and can't always find a spell to fix any problem. They can also serve as the party face.

Cleric is just the best support for a group in general. They usually don't dominatingly outshine everyone the way a druid can but are simultaneously slightly better support. Even when a cleric is actually the most powerful character in a party, they usually do that by helping other classes feel powerful.

The reason I chose fighter is because while on their own a fighter isn't the best martial, their feats give them the ability to do a lot of things well and with proper support from the casters they can be a serious damage output powerhouse. At high levels a fighter can have multiple utility feats as well as chains that allow him to just drop massive damage on things when needed.

The rogue rounds out the party, bringing a large number of skills the other characters are probably lacking and also being able to output a large amount of damage in the right situations. Like the fighter, he may not be the best class on their own but with support from the other party members they can do some awesome stuff.

So there it is, people may say its boring, but sometimes something is the archetype because it's the best.

You're talking 3.5/PF, right? Just guessing based on "fighter isn't the best martial," because Grod knows that's changed in the latest two editions.

Mordaedil
2017-08-30, 02:25 AM
My approach is so different from everybody else's, that it's either worthless or a valuable new perspective.

1. Character played by somebody who knows the system extremely well, can find a rule quickly, but doesn’t get annoyed when the DM rules against his interpretation.

2. Character run by a player who really loves fantasy, who gets deeply into character, and whose mood is infectious.

3. Martial character run by person not that into the rules, but with a good sense of tactics and who loves mock battle.

4. Party face run by a player who is good at talking, fun to listen to, and always in character.

5. Character run by skeptic who questions the party’s plan, points out flaws, but doesn’t push for endless argument.

6. Character played by new role-player, for whom it is all still shiny and glorious, who reacts to a vampire or chimera with awe and excitement, rather than rules-driven tactics.

7. Character played by me, in the best game ever.

I mean, I thought this was everyones idea of ideal, so I just posted a joke answer of wild mages. But yeah, if I were to give a serious answer, this would be it.

JBPuffin
2017-08-30, 03:06 AM
I mean, I thought this was everyones idea of ideal, so I just posted a joke answer of wild mages. But yeah, if I were to give a serious answer, this would be it.

IRL group composition preferences definitely isn't universal - every player has a model in their head of the "perfect group," and in mine all that takes is me DMing for around five of my buddies/DND-playing family. Admittedly, pulling together a group of seven people with those qualities does sound pretty heavenly, but in the end, I'm more than happy with what I've got.

Quertus
2017-08-30, 03:30 AM
My approach is so different from everybody else's, that it's either worthless or a valuable new perspective.

1. Character played by somebody who knows the system extremely well, can find a rule quickly, but doesn’t get annoyed when the DM rules against his interpretation.

2. Character run by a player who really loves fantasy, who gets deeply into character, and whose mood is infectious.

3. Martial character run by person not that into the rules, but with a good sense of tactics and who loves mock battle.

4. Party face run by a player who is good at talking, fun to listen to, and always in character.

5. Character run by skeptic who questions the party’s plan, points out flaws, but doesn’t push for endless argument.

6. Character played by new role-player, for whom it is all still shiny and glorious, who reacts to a vampire or chimera with awe and excitement, rather than rules-driven tactics.

7. Character played by me, in the best game ever.

I've had up to 3 of #1 in the party. As no-one is perfect, I find such redundancy on this role a good thing.

#3 is one of those places where your list is so strange. I've had great tacticians in the party, but they usually care about and know the rules. Why would you limit it to those who don't care about the rules? And, while I can see the connection of tactics and martial character, what if they were playing a war mage, or a priest of a god of strategy? Or, heck, a priest of a god of fluffy bunnies and rainbows, but their character happens to be a tactical genius? What makes all these details have to go together exactly this way for you?

I'm torn on #4. While charismatic anything is arguably better than non-charismatic anything, limiting the face role to those who play it IRL is just mean.

#5 is me, so I'm in every party I've been in. Although I'm also multi class 1&3*&roleplay.

#6 is great, but... I think I'd personally get tired of having one in every party. Having someone (or everyone!) be good enough at role-playing to have characters come off that way, however, never gets old, imo.

Who you play with matters, but I'm with those who like people who can play well together, have fun together, enjoy the game and their characters, etc. Your list is so oddly specific in places, that unless you're describing an existing party play group, I'm confused.

Looking at things from more of your angle, for my ideal party, I suppose I'd want 3+ rules masters, 7 rules lawyers**, 7 roleplayers, from 0-7*** tacticians, 7 6 charismatics and me.

* on those rare occasions when I play a martial
** by which I mean, I want the whole party to enjoy a good rules debate, not just me and my brother
*** I'm a war gamer, but, in an RPG, I don't have to think like a tactician


I mean, I thought this was everyones idea of ideal, so I just posted a joke answer of wild mages. But yeah, if I were to give a serious answer, this would be it.

Aww, and here I had been, imagining the joy of a party of nothing but Wild Mages. :smallfrown:

Mordaedil
2017-08-30, 05:08 AM
I can't even get my friends to agree to play all wizards, they always start to talk about playing things like Duskblades and stuff. I just want a nerd outing.

Quertus
2017-08-30, 06:20 AM
I can't even get my friends to agree to play all wizards, they always start to talk about playing things like Duskblades and stuff. I just want a nerd outing.

I almost managed to convince a group to play an all wizards party once. Which is amazing, given that my standard party composition looks like it was ripped almost straight out of The Hobbit: double digit fighters, a rogue, and me playing a wizard.

So the idea of an all Wild Mage party was just Squeeeee!

Hackulator
2017-08-30, 10:17 AM
I almost managed to convince a group to play an all wizards party once. Which is amazing, given that my standard party composition looks like it was ripped almost straight out of The Hobbit: double digit fighters, a rogue, and me playing a wizard.

So the idea of an all Wild Mage party was just Squeeeee!

I'm playing in an almost all full caster Pathfinder game and it's annoying as ****. Combat makes me want to kill myself, I take my turn and then wait 20 minutes for my turn to come again sometimes.

Jay R
2017-08-30, 10:25 AM
#3 is one of those places where your list is so strange. I've had great tacticians in the party, but they usually care about and know the rules. Why would you limit it to those who don't care about the rules? And, while I can see the connection of tactics and martial character, what if they were playing a war mage, or a priest of a god of strategy? Or, heck, a priest of a god of fluffy bunnies and rainbows, but their character happens to be a tactical genius? What makes all these details have to go together exactly this way for you?

* on those rare occasions when I play a martial

The answer is implicit in your footnote. People deeply into the rules tend to move away from the martial classes.

Having at least one martial character is good for the party, and good simulation of fantasy.

This is somebody who will continue to want to play the martial PC. That satisfies his desires because he is here for the joy of a mock battle.

8BitNinja
2017-08-30, 05:45 PM
City of Heroes

Blaster
Blaster
Blaster
Blaster
Blaster
Blaster
Blaster

Use a gun, and if that doesn't work, use more gun.

Vknight
2017-08-30, 09:11 PM
YES! now I can have some real fun:

Exalted:
1. Malfean Slayer Caste Infernal. you need some brute force. give them a big sword that shoot green flame from it
2. Orichalcum Caste brilliant mad scientist who is a complete optimist and idealist
3. Chosen of Endings spymaster who views Creation like a garden that needs to be weeded.
4. Lunar Changing Moon caste, because you need someone to be the diplomat
5. Abyssal Dusk Caste, because you need someone to be the inspiring leader of war
6. Liminal who looks like a scarecrow, she wields a trident as her weapon.
7. Air Aspect Dynast who wields a spear and uses sorcery, the only sane woman of the group

Pokemon fan rpgs:
1. A Delphox
2. A Gardevoir
3. A Lucario
4. A Salamence
5. A Bisharp
6. A Milotic
7. Their trainer, who wants to catch Mew

Anima Beyond Fantasy RPG:
1. Vetala Nephilim with the Existence Eater and Eyes of Death Bloodlines and use of Nemesis Ki
2. Duk'zarist Nephilim, wields a sword and fire magic
3. Daimah Nephilim, illusionist and with rogue-ish skills
4. D'anjayni Nephilim, assassins creed style assassin
5. Jayan Nephilim, warrior mentalist who is quite the scholar
6. Sylvain Nephilim, wields a sword and Water magic
7. Tuan Dalyr, the healer and werefox

Dude that is a super nice group of teams I gotta say

For Exalted; I would say 1 Solars, 1 Lunar, 2 Dragon Blooded, 1 Sidereel, 1 Abyssal nothing really specific on Caste though.

Pokemon well for a team as a trainer
Absol, Umbreon, Gardevoir, Milotic, Typhlosion(always Typhlosion its the best)

And nice Anima beyond fantasy reference... I forgot there was a werefox and things... and I forget where the rules are for it.


For me in Dresden Files; a Chest-Deep Party
1 Wizard
1 Focused Practitioner with the Sight
1 Emissary of Power to not a dragon or the Erlking
1 Pure Mortal built too be the intellectual with lots of languages and doctorates and things
1 Were something that can fly, my personal taste is I would do an owl

Quertus
2017-08-31, 07:14 AM
The answer is implicit in your footnote. People deeply into the rules tend to move away from the martial classes.

Having at least one martial character is good for the party, and good simulation of fantasy.

This is somebody who will continue to want to play the martial PC. That satisfies his desires because he is here for the joy of a mock battle.

Huh. Makes sense. Matches my whole "everyone has a character that they enjoy" concept.

My experience says that not everyone who cares about the rules is as married to playing casters as I am, but it is common.

But if you found someone who both loved the rules, and loved playing martial characters, you'd be cool with that?

2D8HP
2017-08-31, 10:46 AM
The answer is implicit in your footnote. People deeply into the rules tend to move away from the martial classes...


Could be true, I have a decided preference for "non-casters" (Fighting-Men and Thieves in old D&D, Fighters and Rogues in new D&D), and except for TSR D&D, and Chaosium BRP rules, which were imprinted on my mind when I was young, I mostly regard rules mechanics as a headache, and wish to just interact with the setting as much as possible instead.


Huh. Makes sense. Matches my whole "everyone has a character that they enjoy" concept.

My experience says that not everyone who cares about the rules is as married to playing casters as I am, but it is common.

But if you found someone who both loved the rules, and loved playing martial characters, you'd be cool with that?


I don't know about Pathfinder or 2e AD&D (while I did get the 2e DMG, I never bothered to get the 2e PHB), but in WotC 5e D&D, the "Battlemaster" sub-class seems made for someone like that (I tend to play the "Champion" sub-class instead).

Jay R
2017-08-31, 10:14 PM
Huh. Makes sense. Matches my whole "everyone has a character that they enjoy" concept.

My experience says that not everyone who cares about the rules is as married to playing casters as I am, but it is common.

But if you found someone who both loved the rules, and loved playing martial characters, you'd be cool with that?

Yes, but it wouldn't replace what I'm talking about. The person you describe is probably #1 on my list, but could be #2, #4, #5, or #6 just as easily as #3. But please understand that right now I can't really be 100% rational on this point right now.

One of my closest friends since the 1970s was Glen. He never cared about rules, and played 2e like oD&D like Hero System like Flashing Blades. He wanted to simulate a fighter. I usually built his characters for him. But his interest in combat added to every game he played (despite the fact that he would occasionally complain when the rules didn't allow him to do what he thought he should do). In games when we needed a Fighter, and nobody else wanted to play one, he was a great team member, and a great asset.

That's who I based that description on.

And he passed away two weeks ago.

2D8HP
2017-08-31, 10:20 PM
...That's who I based that description on....


Sorry to learn that Jay R.

My condolences.

Quertus
2017-08-31, 10:59 PM
That's who I based that description on.

And he passed away two weeks ago.


Sorry to learn that Jay R.

My condolences.

Uh, yeah. I thought you were basing it on someone real, and I felt that there was more to the story. Sorry for being right, and pushing a sensitive spot in the process.

JBPuffin
2017-08-31, 11:07 PM
Raise a glass for Jay R's friend
Until they meet once again
at Gygax's table in the skyyy (at Gygax's table in the sky)
Roll Sense Hidden to see through the tears in your eyes

Jay R
2017-09-01, 10:12 AM
Raise a glass for Jay R's friend
Until they meet once again
at Gygax's table in the skyyy (at Gygax's table in the sky)
Roll Sense Hidden to see through the tears in your eyes

Very nice. Glen would have loved that. In fact, he wrote a poem himself on that subject.

Thank you all, and I apologize for accidentally hijacking the thread.

Getting back on topic, what is your ideal party?

Guizonde
2017-09-01, 10:20 AM
Getting back on topic, what is your ideal party?

middle of the woods, a campfire and some steaks, a few bottles of bourbon and great company.

oh, you meant dnd? middle of the woods, a campfire and some steaks, a few bottles of bourbon and psychotic murderhobos.

khadgar567
2017-09-01, 10:34 AM
middle of the woods, a campfire and some steaks, a few bottles of bourbon and great company.

oh, you meant dnd? middle of the woods, a campfire and some steaks, a few bottles of bourbon and psychotic murderhobos.
As long as food is good no problem for me

Cluedrew
2017-09-01, 11:19 AM
Actually I think I haven't said this in this thread yet, but I joke about their being two party roles in our group:
Those who get us into trouble.
Those who get us out of trouble.
We get some beautiful results out of that. But I'm going to try and break it down a bit more:
Character with personal objectives that requires taking risks and heading towards dangerous situations. (1-few)
Character beholden in some way to the rest of the party and capable of getting them out of trouble, sometimes, when things go south. (1-2)
Character with personal objectives that at times conflict but may also align at other points with other members objectives. (1-few)
Character with varied goes that can be dragged along, mostly helpful. (rest)
This is not the most technical view but it seems to work out like this.

sengmeng
2017-09-01, 03:35 PM
A concept I was discussing with a friend but never implemented was that the party all had to use NPC classes, and they were led/employed by a powerful but idiotic NPC paladin (basically Don Quixote with 4-5 Sancho Panzas). He'd make us all wear matching red shirts and we'd die left and right, and roll up new characters and introduce them as being hired in whatever the next podunk village was that we passed through. I thought it would be fun, anyway.

ATHATH
2017-09-02, 12:13 AM
1. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

2. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

3. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

4. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

5. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

6. Chaotic neutral kender rogue

7. Lawful good dwarf paladin
This actually made me laugh out loud.

As for my picks... 7 Great Rift Skyguards (the base class before entering Great Rift Skyguard doesn't really matter to me), because a 7-member commando squad of skydiving/hang gliding, hippogryph-riding dwarves (GRS is a dwarf-exclusive class) is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

Guizonde
2017-09-02, 06:16 AM
This actually made me laugh out loud.

As for my picks... 7 Great Rift Skyguards (the base class before entering Great Rift Skyguard doesn't really matter to me), because a 7-member commando squad of skydiving/hang gliding, hippogryph-riding dwarves (GRS is a dwarf-exclusive class) is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

"helljumpers! what do you do?!"
"feet first into hell we jump!"
"what's the trick?"
"make sure there's lots of corpses to cushion the fall!"

i played my imperial guard stormtroopers (sorry, tempestus scions...) like that, you've just hit me with nostalgia. halo 3 odst should really be a more well-known concept, your idea gave me ideas.

LordCdrMilitant
2017-09-02, 12:54 PM
"helljumpers! what do you do?!"
"feet first into hell we jump!"
"what's the trick?"
"make sure there's lots of corpses to cushion the fall!"

i played my imperial guard stormtroopers (sorry, tempestus scions...) like that, you've just hit me with nostalgia. halo 3 odst should really be a more well-known concept, your idea gave me ideas.

Stormtroopers are extremely good. I'm annoyed about them still, actually, because I don't see any good reason for them to get their own hardback codex while we, with twice as many units, first have a digital offering at best, and then are integrated into the "Imperial Agents" compendium with such 3-unit "factions" as the Aeronautica Imperalis and the Astra Telepathica.


The paratrooper-style orbital drop is pretty common in sci-fi, I think. It's definitely well know.

And, since we're talking about it, Traveller:
Marine
Marine
Marine
Marine
Navy
Navy
Navy

Vknight
2017-09-02, 04:53 PM
Stormtroopers are extremely good. I'm annoyed about them still, actually, because I don't see any good reason for them to get their own hardback codex while we, with twice as many units, first have a digital offering at best, and then are integrated into the "Imperial Agents" compendium with such 3-unit "factions" as the Aeronautica Imperalis and the Astra Telepathica.


The paratrooper-style orbital drop is pretty common in sci-fi, I think. It's definitely well know.

And, since we're talking about it, Traveller:
Marine
Marine
Marine
Marine
Navy
Navy
Navy

No scientist or anything silly? Well I guess you could do that

Drynwyn
2017-09-02, 06:51 PM
3.5:

Wizard (Focused Specialist Conjurer)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Transmuter)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Necromancer)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Illusion)/Shadowcraft Mage
Wizard (Focuses Specialist Enchantment)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Evocation)/Incantatrix
Wizard (Focused Specialist Abjurer)/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil

Get the idea? :smalltongue:

Eladrinblade
2017-09-02, 11:04 PM
If I get to control the whole party (like in icewind dale 2 or something), then:

LG male dwarf fighter (big shield, hammer, heaviest plate)
NG female human cleric (pelor - sun/strength)
CG male elf rogue
LN female human mage
N male half-orc druid
CN female half-elf bard

And a NG male gnome artificer, who has the leadership feat
-cohort: N "male" warforged fighter/bear-totem barbarian/juggernaut
-clan of gnome expert followers

Whole party operates via an airship crewed by the gnomes. This party is entirely self-sufficient and can do pretty much anything.

That said, if I were only playing one member of the party, then:

Me, CG Male Human (with elf-blood) Scout + Moderate Utility/Buffing Magic + Swiftblade
CG Female Half-elf Bard + Spellthief Abilities + Arcane Trickster Abilities + Moderate Sneak Attack
CG Male Dwarf Fighter + bit of Bear Totem Barbarian + Strength & War Domains + Magic Smithing/Engineering
CG Female Elflord (Cloistered Cleric w/Magic/Protection/Knowledge + Healer Class), wears robes and wields staff
-half-celestial unicorn companion
CG Female Gnome Summoner + Alchemist (PF, toned down for 3.5)
-eidolon is a black nightfury-style dragon
-alchemist added on because I want poisons, bombs, potions and elixirs

Vknight
2017-09-03, 01:53 AM
3.5:

Wizard (Focused Specialist Conjurer)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Transmuter)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Necromancer)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Illusion)/Shadowcraft Mage
Wizard (Focuses Specialist Enchantment)
Wizard (Focused Specialist Evocation)/Incantatrix
Wizard (Focused Specialist Abjurer)/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil

Get the idea? :smalltongue:

But is it truly your ideal

Dimers
2017-09-03, 02:08 AM
A fun team for experimental builds:


Revenant human, Dead Rat Deserter, assassin/monk, Ghostwalker: ultimate scouting
Deva, occultist, shaman/witch, Dusk Oracle: buffer, utility, skillmonkey, healer
Genasi, ooze master, barbarian/wizard, Blood Mage: flexible striker who laughs at damage
Half-elf, (no specific theme), battlemind|paladin/vampire, Storm Disciple: striker with potentially infinite durability
Drow, widow of Arach-Tinilith, invoker/assassin, Hammer of Vengeance: undeniable area striker/controller
Dwarf, student of Evard, avenger|cleric/assassin, Zealous Assassin: reliable generalist
Goblin, (no specific theme), fighter/executioner, Snapping Testudo: comic relief (and defender)

8BitNinja
2017-09-04, 03:11 PM
Shadowrun

Human Street Samurai
Troll Street Samurai
Human Decker
Changeling Mage
Orc Shaman
Human Adept
Dwarf Rigger

Jay R
2017-09-04, 04:24 PM
I notice that some people are automatically assuming a high-level party.

How would your answer change if you are preparing a party of first levels? No double classes, no prestige classes. How should the party start?

Quertus
2017-09-04, 05:11 PM
I notice that some people are automatically assuming a high-level party.

How would your answer change if you are preparing a party of first levels? No double classes, no prestige classes. How should the party start?

Well, that clearly wasn't directed at me, since "viable from level 1" was key in my description of my choices. And people are welcome to play level one characters next to full epic Quertus or Armus - it wouldn't be the first time for that. :smalltongue:

So, to flip the question for me, would I change anything if we were starting at epic level? Hmmm... not really. I might consider the all calamari party a bit more viable, but I've actually already played that party.

I'd probably do a bit more with multi class options (especially in 2e, with dual classing, to add in a few more options), but otherwise, I think my answer holds.

Dimers
2017-09-04, 05:19 PM
Yeah, I don't find a lot of differentiation between one low-level character and the next. If they could be much better or much worse at a given thing compared to another PC, that would inherently make someone 'high level' in a sense.

For 4th ed starting at 1st level, though ...

I'll keep the dwarf avenger|cleric and the goblin arena fighter.
Svirfneblin, Deep Delver, ranger|serene runepriest/monk: dungeoneering expert, striker and backup healer
Razorclaw shifter, Iron Wolf Warrior, pursuit avenger: dire wolf on two feet
Dragonborn, Yakuza, battle cleric: sheer swaggering awesomeness (and 'face')
Half-elf, Knight Hospitaler, fire elementalist/skald: ranged striker and damage mitigation
Kenku, Noble Adept, warlord|bard: master at helping teammates


Shadowrun

Human Street Samurai
Troll Street Samurai
Human Decker
Changeling Mage
Orc Shaman
Human Adept
Dwarf Rigger

Santa, a fat jolly Elf, shaman of deer and cold
Mrs. Claws, street sam
Abominable/"Bumble", albino troll bruiser (probably a physical adept, because Bumbles bounce!)
Rude Dolph, a red-nosed dwarf rigger, proud pilot of The Slay
The Snowman, elf decker ... Ice is no problem for the Snowman ... looks like Billy Idol in "White Wedding" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAZQaYKZMTI)
He, infiltration specialist: He sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake
The Pole, skinny Polish face

2D8HP
2017-09-04, 08:20 PM
I notice that some people are automatically assuming a high-level party.

How would your answer change if you are preparing a party of first levels? No double classes, no prestige classes. How should the party start?


In AD&D? No change.

In 5e D&D? Less Fighter/Rogues, more Fighters or Rogues.

In Pendragon? Less Knights, more Squires.

In other games? Um... I either don't know ('cuz ignorance), don't care, or both (I'm pretty much interested in playing the same kinds of adventures and character as D&D or Pendragon) except for Traveller, were I would want at least one Scout, 'cuz Starship!

bulbaquil
2017-09-05, 08:50 PM
I notice that some people are automatically assuming a high-level party.

How would your answer change if you are preparing a party of first levels? No double classes, no prestige classes. How should the party start?

No change to mine, except that the 5e list obviously wouldn't have their subclasses yet.

The Fury
2017-09-06, 01:49 PM
All Bards except for one... I don't know... Barbarian, I guess. All the Bards sing to the Barbarian and provide moral bonuses and whatnot, and the Barbarian just gets really good at wrecking stuff. I also imagine the Bards singing a capella and harmonizing.

Guizonde
2017-09-06, 02:05 PM
All Bards except for one... I don't know... Barbarian, I guess. All the Bards sing to the Barbarian and provide moral bonuses and whatnot, and the Barbarian just gets really good at wrecking stuff. I also imagine the Bards singing a capella and harmonizing.

a litteral barbershop quartet... with the "barbar" using a huge battleaxe.

8BitNinja
2017-09-06, 05:39 PM
6 paladins and a cleric on full time healing and buffing

The more pallys in the world, the better

The Fury
2017-09-07, 02:06 AM
a litteral barbershop quartet... with the "barbar" using a huge battleaxe.

That's about the kind of music I imagine, yes. I guess by the rules set by the thread's OP I could even have four Bards buffing the one Barbarian. Preferably while wearing boater hats and seersucker suits.

Vknight
2017-09-07, 11:23 AM
I notice that some people are automatically assuming a high-level party.

How would your answer change if you are preparing a party of first levels? No double classes, no prestige classes. How should the party start?

I assumed from 1 too 20 for it too be the most fun. Or that games equivalent

JBPuffin
2017-09-07, 01:41 PM
For DnD: All are single-classed (in the monk's case, a hybrid, so still one class), so I don't have to worry about things nearly as much. In fact, all the characters have their niches at 1st level. Imagine that! (Seriously, though, I'm kind of surprised it worked that well).

For PTU, start at Mentor/Ace Trainer to maximize the effectiveness of XP Training, and pick Poke's in descending order. This is a theory, since I've never actually played a session...

Guizonde
2017-09-07, 04:02 PM
For DnD: All are single-classed (in the monk's case, a hybrid, so still one class), so I don't have to worry about things nearly as much. In fact, all the characters have their niches at 1st level. Imagine that! (Seriously, though, I'm kind of surprised it worked that well).


that's pretty much exactly my current pf game (monk is vanilla, iirc, with the drunken master equivalent archetype). we've got overlap, synergy, individual niche and role, it's working out really well, even if level 1 was used to find our respective niches and synergies. i'll be the first to multiclass, i believe, but the synergies for the team are too good to pass up. i'm aiming for a 10/10 split, so the dm won't have to do much bookkeeping (besides, i'm an inquisitor mc'ing into vigilante. aside from becoming even more of a beast at social skills and team combat, there's no change). there may be some prc's later on (we're currently level 3), and his campaign is set for levelling 1-8. if it holds up, he's got another one to follow up to 14th.

JBPuffin
2017-09-08, 12:31 AM
that's pretty much exactly my current pf game (monk is vanilla, iirc, with the drunken master equivalent archetype). we've got overlap, synergy, individual niche and role, it's working out really well, even if level 1 was used to find our respective niches and synergies. i'll be the first to multiclass, i believe, but the synergies for the team are too good to pass up. i'm aiming for a 10/10 split, so the dm won't have to do much bookkeeping (besides, i'm an inquisitor mc'ing into vigilante. aside from becoming even more of a beast at social skills and team combat, there's no change). there may be some prc's later on (we're currently level 3), and his campaign is set for levelling 1-8. if it holds up, he's got another one to follow up to 14th.

What really got me about my 7-man set was how straightforward everything ends up: Pathfinder Summoner (do you have one?) only gets stronger birds and more counterspells as they level, Bard just gets better at melee and healing, Monk/Avenger has mobility options all the way through and gets more interesting ones as they go, Paladin has powers at all tiers that do what I need them to, Fighter can do his thing at level 1 (if there's some errata for Crossbow Master which says the bonus action triggers on one-handed melee weapon attacks, someone needs to tell me ASAP) and simply steadily improves, Wu Jen picks up more disciplines and gets more powerful, and Artificer learns new tricks...but there's no, "Alright, now I get to play the build I want to," which only happens to me when I don't plan my builds at all >.>.

Nifft
2017-09-08, 12:55 AM
I notice that some people are automatically assuming a high-level party.

How would your answer change if you are preparing a party of first levels? No double classes, no prestige classes. How should the party start?

Mine isn't.

Four characters, each one spec'd for skills at low-levels, and T1 casting at mid-to-high levels.

Guizonde
2017-09-08, 08:08 AM
What really got me about my 7-man set was how straightforward everything ends up: Pathfinder Summoner (do you have one?) only gets stronger birds and more counterspells as they level, Bard just gets better at melee and healing, Monk/Avenger has mobility options all the way through and gets more interesting ones as they go, Paladin has powers at all tiers that do what I need them to, Fighter can do his thing at level 1 (if there's some errata for Crossbow Master which says the bonus action triggers on one-handed melee weapon attacks, someone needs to tell me ASAP) and simply steadily improves, Wu Jen picks up more disciplines and gets more powerful, and Artificer learns new tricks...but there's no, "Alright, now I get to play the build I want to," which only happens to me when I don't plan my builds at all >.>.

here's my post from page 2 describing my team:





currently, i'm in a pf game where there are 5 divines and 1 bard, it's working great: cayden caillean's finest brew crew:

faces: inquisitor and oracle.
tanking: monk and paladin.
healing: oracle, cleric, paladin
critter and luck control: oracle and bard
damage: inquisitor (battlefield control), monk, paladin.
buffs: oracle, inquisitor, cleric, bard.
skill monkey business: bard and inquisitor.

basically, the inquisitor and oracle call the shots in combat. one by virtue of being militarily trained, the other because she sees into the future. (ooc, it's because me and the oracle are the most experienced players, thus the face roles too) turns out that this team is really balanced. we might not throw fireballs, but all but one being casters makes us really share redundancy allowing us to start fights in pincer moves or set up ambushes that are ruthlessly overkill. in general my inquisitor is hitting from above so i can jump in to support whoever needs it, plus activating my teamwork bonuses where they're most useful. the paladin and the monk are chewing across enemies until they high-five, the cleric and oracle are behind the heavy hitters, and the bard and inquisitor kite the fight, one on land, one in the scenery (trees, rigging, masts, chandeliers, rafters...)

the campaign has been on hiatus for 2 months due to college holidays and until mid-september, but we got to see what crazy hijinks a bard, a paladin, and an inquisitor could pull off if supported by an oracle. iirc, we hit a .5 henderson accidentally. our dm headdesked so we reigned it back.

.... all that because the cleric wanted to own a pet camel and i insisted it wear a fez...



in game, it boils down to: hit the pub to pray, find the plot, get drunk, break the plot, sober up, analyze what our drunken hijinks netted us as clues and plot information, drink again, get back on track.

out of game, it boils down to: get drunk and try to go for the most cinematic things to be done. i enjoy doing my usual bit for mood whiplash between hilarity and horror (i play my inquisitor like monty python's spanish inquisition in warhammer 40k, my dm throws me some cthulu bait), the monk like to rib on my half-drow inquisitor and gets into fights and usually ends up with a projectile or blunt object to the family jewels, the paladin roleplays like no other (being a play by post veteran, he's good at that), the oracle tends to finish my punchlines (mostly aimed at the monk) and add to the horror, the cleric and bard are there for the ride and to help us survive our hijinks.

it's all in good fun, but as always when campaigning drunk, it only makes sense in context. it was the dm's idea for us to all be worshippers of the drunken god, i'm sure as an excuse to see us all in a stupid state.

Endarire
2017-09-11, 01:22 AM
(This 'make your favorite party' post is something similar to what I had planned.)

This party is meant to cover all the expected bases of a campaign where you don't have extensive knowledge of what you will face. I don't focus on cohorts via Leadership, etc. Those slots are easily filled with whatever the party needs, like Artificers. (If we're assuming we start at level 1 with no PrCs, this party still works. Just focus on the main class's best aspects!)

1: NG Human Druid of Mystra5/Planar Shepherd4/Hathran1/Planar Shepherd+6/Hathran+4

She eventually gets Circle Magic and spontaneous casting for all her spells. Her preferred plane is either Lammania for a vast variety of Wild Shape forms or Dal Quor because she likes playing Braid world 1 in D&D. She summons, she heals, she blasts, and she Wild Shapes! Gooooooooo Druid!

2: NG Human Wizard (Conjurer)2/Master Specialist1/War Weaver3/Incantatrix4/Hathran5/War Weaver+X/Incantatrix+X

She can buff the party with CL40 spells that last all day and sometimes 2 days! Perhaps swap a level of the above for Spelldancer to make persisting arrive sooner!

3: LG/LN Human Cleric of Mystra3/Church Inquisitor4/Hathran5/Full CastingX

See a pattern with CL40 casters? She takes the feat Initiate of Mystra and learns anyspell (and greater anyspell) to be able to cast Wizard spells from spellbooks. And she gets 3/4 BAB for a buncha levels. And other Hathran goodies.

4: LN or TN Savage Aasimar Beguiler/Binder/Anima Mage/Mindbender1 - perhaps in another level order

He scouts sneakily for the party, handles traps, contributes the occasional spell, and is able to be polymorphed into uber effective Outsiders.

5: NG Silverbrow Human Bard8/Marshal1/Virtuoso1/Sublime Chord2/Virtuoso+X

Mis(ter) Charisma handles the social aspects of the party and party buffs. He does the occasional support spell for the party like grease or haste or glitterdust or alter self when the rest of the party doesn't handle them.

6: An initiator of some sort for damage and spell slot saving. Maybe a Swordsage for extra sneaking or a Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator for maneuvers & spells.

Since we already have the primary things covered, may as well save 'em some spell slots.

7: CG Warforged Psion (Shaper)5/Anarchic Initiate2/Constructor10/Full Manifesting+X

Versatile summons and malleable energy damage via powers seems useful, but at this point, many things could be - like an Artificer!

Dr_Dinosaur
2017-09-12, 02:18 AM
I've always liked the idea of playing a group like the circus bugs from A Bug's Life. Performers, carnies, and hucksters thrust into the role of heroes, preferably in an AP with a DM able to play along. Lots of classes and archetypes fit into that, but not a lot of groups

FabulousFizban
2017-09-12, 01:54 PM
Onion Knight, Onion Knight, Onion Knight, and Onion Knight.

martixy
2017-09-12, 07:30 PM
I play 3.5. Or rather 3.pf.

The breadth of material precludes me listing anything near specific builds.

Therefore my ideal party is 3 characters covering all the basics, each of which has 1 or 2 primary areas of expertise and 1 or 2 secondary.

For example one character is the primary Party face and Bruiser and secondary caster.
Another might be the Primary caster and secondary Skillmonkey.

The number stems from the fact, that I as a DM feel that this is the most comfortable value for the game I'm looking for - i.e. a primarily character driven epic1 narrative.

1. Epic in the literal, ancient greek sense of the word. Heroic champions, dire villains and apocalyptic scenarios.

AMFV
2017-09-13, 02:48 AM
I've always wanted to have a husband and wife adventuring couple. Classes would probably depend on the system, and what my fiancee wanted to play. I would be some sort of Gish or Paladin though, because that's what I enjoy. Presumably she would be an Arcane Archer, although that's often dreadfully suboptimal.

And yes, that's just two, but I think there's some definite possibility for fun and romance there.

Guizonde
2017-09-13, 04:45 AM
The number stems from the fact, that I as a DM feel that this is the most comfortable value for the game I'm looking for - i.e. a primarily character driven epic1 narrative.

1. Epic in the literal, ancient greek sense of the word. Heroic champions, dire villains and apocalyptic scenarios.

one dm and three players? i feel most comfortable in a four-man team, but that's because real life has a habit of ruining my 5+ gaming groups. in any case, whether 3 or 4 you need to have a lot of redundancy and synergy in team roles.

i found it tough to dm for 6, and i believe that's my maximum. 7 is waaaaaay too much for me.

also, i'm with you on your use of character-driven epic narrative. it might be epically overpowered, but that's just a footnote compared to the quality of the story, in my eyes.

KorvinStarmast
2017-09-13, 03:07 PM
My Ideal D&D Party
Seven People
1 DM
6 Players.

0. Everyone shows up each game night, once per week.
1. Players get immersed in their class
2. For the first 8 levels, no multi classing.
3. Like Jay's party ...
a. a Character played by somebody who knows the system extremely well, can find a rule quickly, but goes with DM rulings and actively supports them.

b. Character run by a player who really gets into the story, and embraces the in-game-world situation.
c. Martial character run by persons who get into tactics and how to fight effectively.
d. Party face run by a player who is good at talking, fun to listen to, and always in character.
e. One new role-player whose growth in game is fun for us all.
f. Someone who writes the chronicles. (That's usually me).

To put together a 5e party:

1 Barbarian
1 Paladin
1 Cleric (tempest or life)
1 Rogue (any sub class) or 1 Bard (either College)
1 Wizard, Warlock, or (Sorcerer Don't care which)
1 Druid, Monk, or Ranger

No:
Tieflings, Gnomes, Kender, or Drow as PC's (I can live with a gnome wizard, but would rather not)
No goblinoids as PC's a la Volo's.
Yes feats
Yes vHuman
Yes Genesai
Yes Storm Sorcerers
Yes to the SCAG Rogue variant if chosen