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NixChicMirages
2017-08-27, 04:06 PM
Hiya Playground!!

I used to play a lot of 3.5, and now I'm preparing to DM for 5e. I'm building my own world with all the bells and whistles, including a rich culture of dragons.

As players and DM's, tell me about your experiences with dragons!! A few questions off the top of my head:

Have you ever hatched a dragon egg?
Have you ever met with dragons for diplomatic purposes?
How do dragon slaying adventures go?
I have no clue what Dragonlance is about - are there themes from it which could work well in 5e?
What's the biggest blunder you've had related to dragons?


Mind you, I only have access to core books (and I bought them only about a week ago) so please be patient when I struggle to keep up with the crunchy goodness of NPC creation/optimization and the like!

As for fluff, I am at the early stages of brainstorming - any and all suggestions are appreciated!! So far, I'm planning on using dragons to justify the bulk of the history of the realm. Black dragons will wreak havoc on kingdoms, Bronze dragons will protect regional trade interests, Green dragons will topple political regimes - whatever the Monster Manual lore says. My strategy is to place the dragons in their natural habitat (On the continent-scale map) and then design civilizations around them. Is this a naive way of going about a dragon-heavy campaign?

Kuulvheysoon
2017-08-27, 05:11 PM
As a 3.5e vet, have you read ye Draconomicon or Dragon Magic? Both of those supplements would be pretty useful here. Dragon Magic in particular goes over some sample campaign scenarios for dragon-focused campaigns.

Catullus64
2017-08-27, 07:45 PM
I had a setting which I cooked up for a series of campaigns with the following lore. Ahem...

IN THE BEGINNING...

The Ten Dragon Fathers were effectively gods. Each had a name, and a set of professions and classes which it patronized. They had many demigod children who were lesser dragons, but their proudest creation was the Dragonborn race, whom they created and nourished with their own blood. They lived upon a mountain which rose from the center of a lake called the Celestial Eye. The entire region around the eye was fertile and tranquil.

Until.

A conflict arose among the Dragon Fathers. To this day, none but the most revered mystics among the Dragonborn know its source. What is known is that the ensuing conflict shattered the land around the Celestial Eye. When the ash settled, the Fathers were dead, and their dragon sons were scattered to distant lands, driven to beastly madness. With their protectors gone and their land scorched, the Dragonborn homeland was swiftly invaded and carved up by rival foreign powers, and the Dragonborn people found themselves without a home. In the generations since, they have found a niche as skilled tradesmen and magicians in the cities of the world, though they are often mistreated and persecuted for perceived traits of avarice and violence. The few remaining dragons have only a small measure of their former power and intelligence, and are now little more than wandering beasts.

This was the lore of dragons and Dragonborn at the start of the campaign.

As the players took a side in a seemingly unrelated civil war, they found that the rebel leader, and Elven princess, had become pregnant. Investigation revealed that she had been impregnated by a ritual conducted by Zacharias, a Dragonborn mystic. Zachary's revealed the truth: since the Dragonborn were created from the blood of the Dragon Fathers, that same blood is the only substance with which they can reproduce. The race has survived for a few generations with a stockpile of blood, but it has run low. Since the princess's family has now conquered all of the Dragonborn homeland, her family line is imbued with the Fathers' essence, and she can now give birth to a new Dragon God, the Ten-in-One. The players are now faced with the choice of stopping this birth, condemning the Dragonborn race to slow extinction, or allow the cataclysmic birth of the Dragon God. The party has a mighty battle amongst themselves. Eventually, one member cuts the nascent god from the princess's belly, and raises his sword to kill it. However, it tempts him with the offer to fuse consciousnesses, which he accepts, becoming a new Dragon God, now infused with mortal perspective, which begins its cataclysmic work of reshaping the world. End Campaign.

Not sure how useful any of this is, but I had a campaign primarily revolving around dragon mythology, so I felt compelled to share.

Safety Sword
2017-08-27, 08:05 PM
I have no clue what Dragonlance is about - are there themes from it which could work well in 5e?


In my opinion, Dragonlance as a setting lost its way. It was much better before they decided that all of the gods would leave the world (again).

It is a great campaign setting when set in the "War of the Lance" period when the gods were returning to the world and the dragons were awoken to rule the skies and generally kick major cans of flaming tree taverns.

It is a great setting just after the war too, where tensions are high and the evil guys actually carved out some kingdoms, but are still fighting internally.

After that when magic went wild and funky it all got a bit too confusing for me. When the dragons were actually the rulers of the kingdoms it wasn't that great either. It was better when the dragons had their own agendas but were afraid of their wrathful dragon queen.

I especially liked the pantheon an their eternal struggle being waged on Krynn. Good times.

The best campaign I ever DM'd was set in Dragonlance, so I have fond memories.

JackPhoenix
2017-08-28, 05:09 PM
In my opinion, Dragonlance as a setting lost its way. It was much better before they decided that all of the gods would leave the world (again).

It is a great campaign setting when set in the "War of the Lance" period when the gods were returning to the world and the dragons were awoken to rule the skies and generally kick major cans of flaming tree taverns.

It is a great setting just after the war too, where tensions are high and the evil guys actually carved out some kingdoms, but are still fighting internally.

After that when magic went wild and funky it all got a bit too confusing for me. When the dragons were actually the rulers of the kingdoms it wasn't that great either. It was better when the dragons had their own agendas but were afraid of their wrathful dragon queen.

I especially liked the pantheon an their eternal struggle being waged on Krynn. Good times.

The best campaign I ever DM'd was set in Dragonlance, so I have fond memories.

Don't forget that the whole planet was literally stolen by Takhisis and the other gods couldn't find it, and the dragon overlords were actually alien dragons. And one of the (pretty much random until that point) dragons serving as a mount for Kitiara was revealed to be one of these alien dragons and later grew up to match the size of the others (which were just insanely huge compared to normal Dragonlance dragons). Though the bit about one of the overlords attacking gnomes who just pestered him with questions and tried to test their weapons on them leaving in disgust and being driven insane when the gnomes continued to pursue him to annoy him more (and in greater numbers the more he killed) was kinda funny. And it was all alternate timeline caused by a kender using time-travel device to visit his friend's funeral when he was about to be stepped on by Chaos, creator of the world and gods, because he was distracted and forgot to return to be squished, thus splitting the timeline. Yeah.

Safety Sword
2017-08-28, 06:00 PM
Don't forget that the whole planet was literally stolen by Takhisis and the other gods couldn't find it, and the dragon overlords were actually alien dragons. And one of the (pretty much random until that point) dragons serving as a mount for Kitiara was revealed to be one of these alien dragons and later grew up to match the size of the others (which were just insanely huge compared to normal Dragonlance dragons). Though the bit about one of the overlords attacking gnomes who just pestered him with questions and tried to test their weapons on them leaving in disgust and being driven insane when the gnomes continued to pursue him to annoy him more (and in greater numbers the more he killed) was kinda funny. And it was all alternate timeline caused by a kender using time-travel device to visit his friend's funeral when he was about to be stepped on by Chaos, creator of the world and gods, because he was distracted and forgot to return to be squished, thus splitting the timeline. Yeah.

Again. WTF were they thinking? Were they thinking?

Lost.

DracoKnight
2017-08-28, 07:47 PM
Don't forget that the whole planet was literally stolen by Takhisis and the other gods couldn't find it, and the dragon overlords were actually alien dragons. And one of the (pretty much random until that point) dragons serving as a mount for Kitiara was revealed to be one of these alien dragons and later grew up to match the size of the others (which were just insanely huge compared to normal Dragonlance dragons). Though the bit about one of the overlords attacking gnomes who just pestered him with questions and tried to test their weapons on them leaving in disgust and being driven insane when the gnomes continued to pursue him to annoy him more (and in greater numbers the more he killed) was kinda funny. And it was all alternate timeline caused by a kender using time-travel device to visit his friend's funeral when he was about to be stepped on by Chaos, creator of the world and gods, because he was distracted and forgot to return to be squished, thus splitting the timeline. Yeah.

Leave it to a Kender to f*ck everything up. :smallannoyed:

Safety Sword
2017-08-28, 08:22 PM
Leave it to a Kender to f*ck everything up. :smallannoyed:

It's practically stated in the race description: Will disrupt any and all campaigns

Gastronomie
2017-08-28, 08:41 PM
In a campaign I once played in, there was an (unmistakably Chaotic Evil) Black Dragon bound in an underground cavern, locked up by a cult of Asmodeus that we were requested to eliminate.

There was some diplomacy done by the party Draconic Sorcerer, and later some quests regarding stealing dragon-sealing artifacts, and in the end, an entire district of the city (with coincidence, the very district in which the Asmodeus cult was hiding) was ravaged and completely destroyed by a Black Dragon that mysteriously rose out of an cavern hidden beneath said city.

Don't blame me for the deaths of the hundreds of innocent, un-related people living in the destroyed district. It was an evil campaign.

lunaticfringe
2017-08-28, 08:56 PM
Dragonlance

Small races are shticky comic relief. Dwarves are extra surly or dumb as rocks. Kender are thieves yet no one cares. Gnomes are insane tinkerers who will blow you up.

Elves are walking Elf Sterotypes. Withdrawn, emo, and smug. Or primitive, emo, & smug.

Humans are varied as usual. Barbarians to Metropolitan and everything in between. Knights are thing. Very Lawful Stupid. Depending on when in the timeline you play they may or may not get spells.

Also Minotaurs I can't recall much but iirc the description in the Waterborne UA fits.

Mages are color coded for convenience.

Honest Tiefling
2017-08-28, 09:08 PM
It has been a VERY long time since I have read the Dragonlance books, but...I think you'd be better off not really focusing on them. Not only is this due to Kender-Rage (If you intend to have these in your campaign, please post your address so the rest of us can stage an intervention, thank you), but I think a lot of the ideas of the book were very much aspects of its time. I don't really think of lot of the themes there would work well on their own.

1) Alignment Balance: Basically, the idea that good and evil are always in a balance...Somehow. I've never really had it explained well to me, and from what I do recall from Dragonlance, it treated it as if you take away all of the evil, good goes coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs. I've seen this mentioned in older works and older editions of DnD, but I think DnD has shifted more to the idea of political intrigue and the 'points of light' model. I might have skimmed some fluff of 5e, but I think that most modern-type games don't really function off of this principle. It could be done, but the issue is that players might feel as if they're better off not doing anything or that the universe is very arbitrary if done wrong.

2) Kender: I think more modern players don't tend to regard the act of theivery as inherently evil. I've heard (from these very forums, I think!) that the kender were devised to be good aligned thieves. What they are are delusional lunatics that no good-aligned person would ever travel with. If you want a better take on halflings, go to 4e with their roaming riverboat halfings trained with daggers. Or heck, just go full Darksun instead.

3) Good Big Dragon fights Evil Big Dragon: Again, I think the idea of good and evil being wholly united has tended to fall away. The Bloodwar has been (and probably still is) a popular theme in third edition, and Golarion/Pathfinder has given us many gods and minor powers that take on different approaches of good. Modrons, Io, Druidic faiths and other neutral powers are quite popular. I think that most players would be expecting other powers in the struggle between good and evil, especially those who give a different viewpoint.

4) No Divine Magic: This...Could be done. I'm not actually 100% sure why the gods disappeared from Kyrnn, but it is an idea to toy with. Only issue is that bards would become the only healers, but you could fix this by letting PCs become a cleric with the idea that fate has a lot in store for them and that they are one of the few clerics for whatever reason.

Armored Walrus
2017-08-28, 09:32 PM
The only mistake I can recall making with dragons was my very first session as a DM (first session for any of my friends as players). I put a dragon at the end of the dungeon (have to have both, they were in the name). So the dragon killed the whole party except the donkey they had purchased to haul all the treasure out. Donkey kills dragon, drags the bodies of the adventurers out of the dungeon, and the campaign goes on ;)

One thing I like about 5e dragons (maybe earlier editions had them, I don't know. I went from blue box to AD&D to 5e) are the various levels of dragon. From wyrmlings to ancient reds, you can use dragon types at almost any point in your campaign.

JackPhoenix
2017-08-28, 09:38 PM
The only mistake I can recall making with dragons was my very first session as a DM (first session for any of my friends as players). I put a dragon at the end of the dungeon (have to have both, they were in the name). So the dragon killed the whole party except the donkey they had purchased to haul all the treasure out. Donkey kills dragon, drags the bodies of the adventurers out of the dungeon, and the campaign goes on ;)

One thing I like about 5e dragons (maybe earlier editions had them, I don't know. I went from blue box to AD&D to 5e) are the various levels of dragon. From wyrmlings to ancient reds, you can use dragon types at almost any point in your campaign.

There's actually fewer age cathegories than in earlier editions. 3.5 has 12(!) age variants for every true dragon.

Chugger
2017-08-28, 09:46 PM
You need to work out what dragons "are" and what they do - the various ones - and I like starting with the basic MM approach you said (dragonlance seems weird).

You also need to "pace" your party's approach to them. Lvl 1? Are dragons even real (to the people they grew up with) - or extinct or the stuff of legend? Has anyone seen one? They should be rare maybe.

At low level have them encounter a dragon ... that would surely kill them, but they are compelled to face it or track it down ... and it turns out to be a programmed illusion that's been freaking out this corner of the forest for years.

But then ... there are other dragonoids to work with, too. Draconic NPCs who might be evil and need dealing with, for example. If you really want to do dragons, find a way to _build anticipation_ so that when they actually face one, it feels like the culmination of a big epic thing - and not some random mishmosh.

Safety Sword
2017-08-28, 09:50 PM
4) No Divine Magic: This...Could be done. I'm not actually 100% sure why the gods disappeared from Kyrnn, but it is an idea to toy with. Only issue is that bards would become the only healers, but you could fix this by letting PCs become a cleric with the idea that fate has a lot in store for them and that they are one of the few clerics for whatever reason.

The 3 gods of magic (which happen to be the moons) literally try to control all non-cleric magic. Bards are just guys with guitars (probably lutes) or hunted as heretics.

Other fun things: Sorcerers are literally hunted down and killed by all wizards as they don't worship the gods of magic.

Want an arcane spell of Level 3 or above? Better be a wizard attached to an order of mages or... you guessed it, hunted down and killed.

The gods originally withdrew from the world because no one bothered to worship them properly. So they took their clerics and went home. Literally. They appeared to their clerics and took them to their home planes.

Cue cataclysm. Don't say you weren't warned (tip: they were warned).