Hermits discovery: Improved familiar? V2

[Harrysonford]

So I've already posted a few ideas for my hermit chainlock character's discovery feature, hopefully this is balenced enough, so let me know what you think.
Before I start, I understand that this is only a background feat, but that's part of what makes hermit unique, plus it does call the discovery "powerful" but if it seems too much let me know.

1) new familiar form(s): faerie dragon and/or elk. *I think this could work in addition to the other options so let me know if that works too or not*
2) multiple familiars: increasing the maximum number of familiars you can have to 2 or more.
3)find steed: take find steed from the paladin spell list (not as invested in this one as the others)
4) animal companion(s): you can tame a beast with a challenge rating of X or lower, or a faerie/pseudo dragon. This process takes 2 hours and 15 gp of supplies.

Please let me know what you think! :)

[Clone]

Hi Harry!

As much as I hate to say it, what you're looking for is too powerful for a background feature.
I understand that its a cool idea, but you are essentially trying to take entire archetypes from other classes without investing levels into it, which is EXTREMELY powerful and far more so that you should ever get from a background feature. I think you are focusing too much on the wording used, as "powerful discovery" is purely used as information in the examples and not an ability.

Even if this DOES relation to an ability, it depends ENTIRELY on your DM, so there is little point in asking on our input before going to them.

But to specifically analyze what you've given us:

1. Faeire Dragon would be an alternate form to your current familiar is something I like, depending on the colour. Personally the oldest I'd allow it to get would be Green as having a pet which can cast 3rd level spells would be ridiculous. I'd also restrict its breath to once a day. Elk is fine as it still is restricted to the action economy which Warlock familiars are subject to.
I wouldn't mix these with anything else, as they are actually fine for your feature even if it doesn't make sense how some knowledge would allow you to reshape a spirit granted to you by your patron. But I digress.

2. Not without more investment. You can get two familiars (kinda) by taking the Raven Queen Patron in UA, as you get a Raven along with your Chain familiar. Otherwise no.

3. This is something which should be a reward, not given for free when its specifically exclusive to the Paladin. Its part of what makes a Paladin a Paladin, and trying to take their thunder for a free horse would grind my gears if I played one in your game. Work towards it or take 5 levels of Paladin is what I say.

4. You are looking for the archetype of a 3rd level ranger, who only gets a beast of 1/4 or less, or a creature which takes 3 levels of Warlock to get, all for a 1/4 of the time to summon. I get what you are going for but sadly I must say no.

I hate to say it, but you are trying to be a Pokemon Trainer without sacrificing anything.
What I CAN tell you is that there is a way for you to get all these things, but it requires multiclassing.
Trade 3 levels of Warlock for Ranger with DM permission, and maybe even change your patron, then you get your Chain Familiar, a Beast Companion and a Raven. Thats great! Add in 5 levels of Paladin for the Find Steed spell or 6 levels of UA Artificer for a robotic companion and you'll be in the Kanto League in no time!

I've looked through your 4 other forum posts and I think you either haven't spoken to your DM about this and are trying to chance your arm, or you don't understand why what you are looking for is too powerful for just a background feature.

What is it you are looking for exactly? Are you trying to fit within a character concept? Or are you just trying to get use out of your background feature? If we know this, we'll be able to better help you!

Edited for clarity

[Harrysonford]

Hi Harry!

As much as I hate to say it, what you're looking for is too powerful for a background feature.
I understand that its a cool idea, but you are essentially trying to take entire archetypes from other classes without investing levels into it, which is EXTREMELY powerful and far more so that you should ever get from a background feature. I think you are focusing too much on the wording used, as "powerful discovery" is purely used as information in the examples and not an ability.

Even if this DOES relation to an ability, it depends ENTIRELY on your DM, so there is little point in asking on our input before going to them.

But to specifically analyze what you've given us:

1. Faeire Dragon would be an alternate form to your current familiar is something I like, depending on the colour. Personally the oldest I'd allow it to get would be Green as having a pet which can cast 3rd level spells would be ridiculous. I'd also restrict its breath to once a day. Elk is fine as it still is restricted to the action economy which Warlock familiars are subject to.
I wouldn't mix these with anything else, as they are actually fine for your feature even if it doesn't make sense how some knowledge would allow you to reshape a spirit granted to you by your patron. But I digress.

2. Not without more investment. You can get two familiars (kinda) by taking the Raven Queen Patron in UA, as you get a Raven along with your Chain familiar. Otherwise no.

3. This is something which should be a reward, not given for free when its specifically exclusive to the Paladin. Its part of what makes a Paladin a Paladin, and trying to take their thunder for a free horse would grind my gears if I played one in your game. Work towards it or take 5 levels of Paladin is what I say.

4. You are looking for the archetype of a 3rd level ranger, who only gets a beast of 1/4 or less, or a creature which takes 3 levels of Warlock to get, all for a 1/4 of the time to summon. I get what you are going for but sadly I must say no.

I hate to say it, but you are trying to be a Pokemon Trainer without sacrificing anything.
What I CAN tell you is that there is a way for you to get all these things, but it requires multiclassing.
Trade 3 levels of Warlock for Ranger with DM permission, and maybe even change your patron, then you get your Chain Familiar, a Beast Companion and a Raven. Thats great! Add in 5 levels of Paladin for the Find Steed spell or 6 levels of UA Artificer for a robotic companion and you'll be in the Kanto League in no time!

I've looked through your 4 other forum posts and I think you either haven't spoken to your DM about this and are trying to chance your arm, or you don't understand why what you are looking for is too powerful for just a background feature.

What is it you are looking for exactly? Are you trying to fit within a character concept? Or are you just trying to get use out of your background feature? If we know this, we'll be able to better help you!

Edited for clarity

Thank you for your imput. For your question at the end, both. I want to boost my familiar or "summoning" capabilities for a more summoner theme, my method of getting this obviously, is my discovery feature. What would you recommend?

[GoodmanDL]

Thank you for your imput. For your question at the end, both. I want to boost my familiar or "summoning" capabilities for a more summoner theme, my method of getting this obviously, is my discovery feature. What would you recommend?

I recommend you not ask to do that. Background features need to be universal, and not interactive with class features. They exist for story hooks. They are not supposed to be as powerful as a feat or mid-career class feature. Compare the background feature you are asking for with existing features from other backgrounds.

what you are asking for is more on the level of an archetype or class feature. If you are a warlock, I would consider these more in line with 7th or 9th level invocations, or perhaps as gifts from an otherworldy patron that replace the 1st, 6th 10th, 14th level features you would replace what you otherwise might have gotten.

[Clone]

It is going to be very difficult while being a Warlock to also be a summoner, unfortunately. That type of play actually has support by Wizards and Druids. Necromancer Wizards with their access to Animate Dead, Conjure Minor Elementals, Conjure Elemental, Animate Objects and the UA Demon summoning spells

Druids with their Conjure Animals, Conjure Minor Elementals, Conjure Woodland Beings, Giant Insect, Conjure Elemental, Awaken, Conjure Fey, and the UA archetype Circle of the Shepard, which focuses on having buffer minions.

Warlocks get little to nothing in comparison. You get your Chain Familiar which cannot be stacked with Find Familiar from another source (the Chain pact simply gets you the spell and more forms, its not another thing entirely) and at level 9 you can grab the "Minions of Chaos" invocation to cast Conjure Elemental once a day. At level 11 you can use a Mystic Arcanum to grab Conjure Fey to give yourself more summoning too. All of these forms can be reflavoured to be dragon-themed!

Ultimately being a straight Warlock it'll be very difficult to be a summoner but its possible.
Your feature, unless your DM is VERY lenient, won't get you what you are looking for beyond an extra unique form for your Chain familiar. Everything else which comes close will require either powerful magic items or multiclassing.

Have you considered multiclassing to be 3 Chain Warlock and 3 Beastmaster Ranger? You have extra spell lots to cast hex out of and you gain many features, while also grabbing that beast companion!
Ask your DM if thats possible since it'd fit the image of your character. Changing some levels wouldn't be too game breaking at all.

What have you said to your DM about this already? Have you spoken to them about the kind of utility and power you are looking for from your background feature?

[Kane0]

Have you considered looking for and taking levels in a summoner or eidolist type class? Theres a couple floating around on the homebrew forums, you might have better luck passing one of them by your DM rather than trying to cram the functionality into a ribbon.

[Harrysonford]

It is going to be very difficult while being a Warlock to also be a summoner, unfortunately. That type of play actually has support by Wizards and Druids. Necromancer Wizards with their access to Animate Dead, Conjure Minor Elementals, Conjure Elemental, Animate Objects and the UA Demon summoning spells

Druids with their Conjure Animals, Conjure Minor Elementals, Conjure Woodland Beings, Giant Insect, Conjure Elemental, Awaken, Conjure Fey, and the UA archetype Circle of the Shepard, which focuses on having buffer minions.

Warlocks get little to nothing in comparison. You get your Chain Familiar which cannot be stacked with Find Familiar from another source (the Chain pact simply gets you the spell and more forms, its not another thing entirely) and at level 9 you can grab the "Minions of Chaos" invocation to cast Conjure Elemental once a day. At level 11 you can use a Mystic Arcanum to grab Conjure Fey to give yourself more summoning too. All of these forms can be reflavoured to be dragon-themed!

Ultimately being a straight Warlock it'll be very difficult to be a summoner but its possible.
Your feature, unless your DM is VERY lenient, won't get you what you are looking for beyond an extra unique form for your Chain familiar. Everything else which comes close will require either powerful magic items or multiclassing.

Have you considered multiclassing to be 3 Chain Warlock and 3 Beastmaster Ranger? You have extra spell lots to cast hex out of and you gain many features, while also grabbing that beast companion!
Ask your DM if thats possible since it'd fit the image of your character. Changing some levels wouldn't be too game breaking at all.

What have you said to your DM about this already? Have you spoken to them about the kind of utility and power you are looking for from your background feature?

What about this:
New forms for familiar: elk and Faerie dragon. And/or advantage on charisma checks with dragons (since he's a dragonborn)?

[Clone]

What about this:
New forms for familiar: elk and Faerie dragon. And/or advantage on charisma checks with dragons (since he's a dragonborn)?

Were I the DM I'd allow it. The alternate forms are fine, but again with the Faerie Dragon I wouldn't allow it be older than Green and I'd limit the Breath Effect to mimic your dragonborn's (I think its short-rest based, not sure. AFB).

With the dragon charisma-check effect I'd limit it to only when your Faerie Dragon/ Pseudo-dragon is within 5ft of you to stick with the theme. Advantage is very powerful but its something I'd work with.

But the main factor here is that this is what I would do. What have you told your DM? Have you even mentioned this to them?

[Specter]

Background stuff shouldn't provide bonuses, just opportunities.

[Harrysonford]

Were I the DM I'd allow it. The alternate forms are fine, but again with the Faerie Dragon I wouldn't allow it be older than Green and I'd limit the Breath Effect to mimic your dragonborn's (I think its short-rest based, not sure. AFB).

With the dragon charisma-check effect I'd limit it to only when your Faerie Dragon/ Pseudo-dragon is within 5ft of you to stick with the theme. Advantage is very powerful but its something I'd work with.

But the main factor here is that this is what I would do. What have you told your DM? Have you even mentioned this to them?

Thank you! I haven't seen my dm in a while. It's kind of complicated, there are multiple dms but pretty much only one can verify stuff like this and I'll see him in a few weeks. Thank you for all of your help! :)