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talagan
2007-08-14, 07:36 AM
I really like the idea of a soulknife, and I see the general opinion is that they are horrible. I don't see anything wrong but then again i'm kinda new. So if anyone could tell me what specifically is wrong I will choose on e of three options.

1 Play as is.
2 House rule it to make it more power full based on your suggestions.
3 Use this variant here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=310984

lord_khaine
2007-08-14, 07:45 AM
the variant under option 3 is amazingly good written, and feels very much in touch what the soulknife should have been, i recomend going using that.

Reel On, Love
2007-08-14, 08:05 AM
Man, what isn't wrong with the Soulknife? It sucks at everything. Kind of like the monk, except you don't even have Stunning Fist and the monk's defenses. Knife to the Soul is the only thing that's good.

elliott20
2007-08-14, 08:32 AM
the only thing it really does get is just the psychic strike feature, and even then it's a pretty modest ability at best.

Firestar27
2007-08-14, 08:53 AM
Man, what isn't wrong with the Soulknife? It sucks at everything. Kind of like the monk, except you don't even have Stunning Fist and the monk's defenses. Knife to the Soul is the only thing that's good.

The monk isn't bad. The monk just isn't meant to be a pure front-line fighter, or even a secondary fighter. The monk is meant to be the weirdo fighter. He can take out mages very quickly (grappling), he fights in ways different than any other class, and I don't just mean his armor and weapons. All of his class features are very unusual. Most people don't ready defenses for monk features. They ready defenses for other classes because those are more shared features.
Also, the monk is the cool class. You're always doing something awesome, even if it isn't good rollplay wise. There is a monk in a campaign I'm running that in the first few sessions:
1. destroyed the lock instead of picking it
2. Opened a door, and before anything else happened, threw two shuriken into the two goblins foreheads, killing them both.
3. Various other things that I can't remember.
And this was all at first level. Now, at 2nd level, he can also block arrows (and other projectiles) with his fists. Imagine blocking a spear.
The monk is just awesome.

Attilargh
2007-08-14, 09:43 AM
You are aware that a Barbarian or even a Fighter could do all the things you've described thus far, and be an actual threat in combat?

Kultrum
2007-08-14, 10:16 AM
you know i was going to try and come up with situations in which soul knifes and monks excel but lets be honest their only played for flavor... or on the off chance you are naked, bound and gagged.

Dr. Weasel
2007-08-14, 11:33 AM
The 'bound and gagged' bit seems to be the only motivation I've heard to play them and the only players I've seen use Soulknives have gone out of their way to get in such situations. They were still outshone by fighters with improvised clubs.
Anyway, Soulknives really aren't a viable class. Their main asset is having more money than other players to invest in non-weapon items, which keeps them in the position of the monk and duelist: they are fairly hard to kill but still not a threat to anyone. They run into the same problems that all fighter classes hit, only they don't get full base attack so they never have a chance to really shine even at low levels.
The variant may be worth playing if only for the skill points that would allow Soulknives to take the skill-monkey role instead of the tank position for which they really aren't well suited.

Person_Man
2007-08-14, 12:06 PM
The Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), a Soulknife PrC, is a decent Archer PrC.

But other then that, yes, the Soul Knife sucks.

Here's a suggestion: Use the Oriental Adventures Samurai or Complete Warrior Kensai. Call your signiture weapon a lightsaber, soulknife, or whatever. Pick abilities for your weapon that mirror the fluff that you want. For example, you could add Shocking and Brilliant Energy if you wanted it to be made of energy. There's an ability that turns it into jewlery or something similar (I think its a +1 enchantment) if you want it to spring spontanously from your hand. You could go into Bloodwind Blade if you want to specialize in throwing it.

That way you don't have to change any crunch, but you get the fluff you want.

Firestar27
2007-08-14, 02:16 PM
you know i was going to try and come up with situations in which soul knifes and monks excel but lets be honest their only played for flavor... or on the off chance you are naked, bound and gagged.

Just like I said. You don't play a monk because it's a good combat option (although monks make pretty good sneaks; not as good as rogues, but monks climb on walls while rogues creep on the ground), you play a monk because it's COOL!

Tengu
2007-08-14, 03:50 PM
What DND has to offer in the apartment of monks is nowhere near these of them that are really cool.
http://www.ffonline.com/1_ff6gfx/char-sabin.jpg

enderrocksonall
2007-08-14, 04:21 PM
What DND has to offer in the apartment of monks is nowhere near these of them that are really cool.
http://www.ffonline.com/1_ff6gfx/char-sabin.jpg

If your DM allows you to do it, making a monk with the spellfire ability from magic of faerun pretty much lets you be a DBZ character.

UglyPanda
2007-08-14, 04:33 PM
If your DM allows you to do it, making a monk with the spellfire ability from magic of faerun pretty much lets you be a DBZ character.

Fiery Fist, Fiery Ki Defence, and Ki Blast from the PHBII also work.

Leicontis
2007-08-14, 04:43 PM
I still want to make a Soulknife/Assassin who kills his targets inside guarded buildings. The victim was obviously hacked apart with a large sword, so the killer must have brought in a large sword, right?

Person_Man
2007-08-14, 04:59 PM
I still want to make a Soulknife/Assassin who kills his targets inside guarded buildings. The victim was obviously hacked apart with a large sword, so the killer must have brought in a large sword, right?

There's an Assassin spell in the Spell Compendium that let's you hide a weapon in your arm (I think it becomes a tattoo). So you can mosey into a guarded castle with no weapons, hack someone to pieces, and then hide it in your arm again. Or you could just wear a disguise, or Dominate someone to hack your target to pieces, or teleport away, etc. No Soulknife levels needed.

enderrocksonall
2007-08-15, 01:21 AM
Fiery Fist, Fiery Ki Defence, and Ki Blast from the PHBII also work.

None of those allow you to fly, and the uses per day are pretty limited.

Tengu
2007-08-15, 02:17 AM
If your DM allows you to do it, making a monk with the spellfire ability from magic of faerun pretty much lets you be a DBZ character.

That's true, but - man, DBZ isn't cool (well, it was for me when I was around 15, but that was long ago)! Do a wikipedia search on "Sabin".

Reel On, Love
2007-08-15, 02:21 AM
DBZ is definitely not cool.

On another note, a gestalt Monk/Soulknife whose unarmed strike got mind blade enhancements (or whose mind blade got unarmed strike damage) would actually be a viable normal base class.

Starsinger
2007-08-15, 02:31 AM
DBZ is definitely not cool.

On another note, a gestalt Monk/Soulknife whose unarmed strike got mind blade enhancements (or whose mind blade got unarmed strike damage) would actually be a viable normal base class.

Soulknife makes a decent gestalt for a ToB character, because hey... free sword.

Reel On, Love
2007-08-15, 02:37 AM
Soulknife makes a decent gestalt for a ToB character, because hey... free sword.

Soulknife makes a crappy gestalt for a ToB character, but all it gets them is a free (crappy, at that!) sword. Compare that to what, say, Swashbuckler or Rogue or Wizard or Psion could get the Warblade.

Soulknife makes a crappy gestalt with anything, for the same reasons it sucks normally.

Overlard
2007-08-15, 04:32 AM
I played a soulknife/rogue/assassin once. He was fun, a great flanker and harrier with a few good abilities. But at best, he could be called "useful" rather than anything better.

Iudex Fatarum
2007-08-15, 10:20 PM
I played a soulknife once, started at lvl 12 i believe and he was amazing because with a lack of paying for weapons he held a +5 item for each of his physical stats and had other bonuses for every other stat too. Yes he was not the best at anything, but he was good at everything except mindless undead with AC's in the upper 50's

Firestar27
2007-08-16, 07:57 PM
I'll admit, the soulknife isn't powerful. (And the monk is up to debate, if used right, it can be good). But still, its fun (the monk is definitely fun, and although I've never played a soulknife, my friend says that it's really fun). And fun > power.

Anxe
2007-08-16, 08:47 PM
My house rule for Soulknife is just to slap a Fighter ATB progression on to it. That Last Strike thing in the variant you showed also looks good.

talagan
2007-08-25, 04:17 PM
sorry guys but i'm determined to play a soulknife. I'm probably gonna make a gestalt character, so now i gotta choose for that. I'm thinking ninja or maybe a monk. Probably a monk for some cool roleplay oppurtunities. We play on a high powered campaign (at least 2 abilities above 17) Any other suggestions? I have access to, Tob Complete Adventurer and psionics.

Reel On, Love
2007-08-25, 05:12 PM
sorry guys but i'm determined to play a soulknife. I'm probably gonna make a gestalt character, so now i gotta choose for that. I'm thinking ninja or maybe a monk. Probably a monk for some cool roleplay oppurtunities. We play on a high powered campaign (at least 2 abilities above 17) Any other suggestions? I have access to, Tob Complete Adventurer and psionics.

...no, see, a Soulknife/Monk gestalt would make an okay NORMAL character, if they got the ability to get their unarmed damage to their mindblade (and count it as a special monk weapon) or mindblade enhancements to their fists. As a gestalt character, it's horrible.

ToB is probably your best bet. With standard-action strikes, you can recharge your Psychic Strike. Take Warblade up one side, use the bastard sword mindblade, and pick high-damage single strikes (and don't forget Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics).

Alternatively, coupling a cleric archer with Soulknife/Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) is good, but that's because Soulbow is good; Soulknife is just to enter it.

Starbuck_II
2007-08-25, 08:35 PM
I really like the idea of a soulknife, and I see the general opinion is that they are horrible. I don't see anything wrong but then again i'm kinda new. So if anyone could tell me what specifically is wrong I will choose on e of three options.

1 Play as is.
2 House rule it to make it more power full based on your suggestions.
3 Use this variant here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=310984

The Soulknife extra feats/Class variants from:
http://dreamscarredpress.com/main/index.php

These help as variants:
a. A 2 handed soulknife (full bab)
b. thrower/ranged (better at throwing)
c. Twfing one.

Bauglir
2007-08-25, 10:07 PM
If you can grab a feat from Dragon Compendium, try Unorthodox Flurry with your Mindblade. See if you can talk your DM into letting you add that ability from the Scorpion Kama from MIC that uses your unarmed strike damage instead as a +1 bonus on your mindblade or something (since it has to cost you SOMETHING, and I'd let a +1 to make a class feature at all useful work in this case, since both classes aren't terribly good). Maybe ask about making it Ki Focus as well if you're into using Monk special attacks. Otherwise, I suggest Ninja, mostly because they're into using weapons and Monks aren't. See if your DM will let you throw your mindblade reasonably ("I throw it, remanifest, and throw it a second time in one round, but now I'm unarmed") and you might be able to pull off some cool stuff. If you want some fun, try a VoP character, though that can get annoying and probably isn't a good choice if you're going very high.

Lavin
2007-08-26, 01:06 AM
If somebody could please enlighten me as to what a soulknife is, i would thank you.
(please forgive my semi-ignorance :biggrin:)

Reel On, Love
2007-08-26, 01:26 AM
If somebody could please enlighten me as to what a soulknife is, i would thank you.
(please forgive my semi-ignorance :biggrin:)

When you don't know what something is, you can Google or Wikipedia it. In this case, what you want is the first Google result.

Stam
2007-08-26, 01:59 AM
If we're talking gestault (which a quick skim tells me that's the build in question) I'd couple your Soulknife with Swashbuckler.

Bingo - boosted BAB, boosted Fort, free weapon finesse (should work with most Mindblade versions), damage boost...and not to mention, a dashing combat style. Go wreak havoc. :smallamused:

talagan
2007-08-26, 02:52 AM
Stam your a genius. I think i'm gonna go with the Swash/soulknife combo. I thank you all for the help.

GunMage
2007-08-26, 10:34 AM
The soulbow is actually a decent class, and it can do some pretty mean things sometimes.

For example, I have a soulbow right now who managed to teleport a seige crab 76 miles out into the ocean.

But, barring that, the gleemax version is perhaps the best, because the normal soulknife is, well, helpless.

Starbuck_II
2007-08-26, 11:17 AM
If somebody could please enlighten me as to what a soulknife is, i would thank you.
(please forgive my semi-ignorance :biggrin:)

A Warrior who can create a mindblade (blade of energy from his mind).

He is psionic due to his bonus feat at 1st Wild Talent.

And that is basically it.

Stam
2007-08-26, 11:39 AM
Glad to be of service :smallsmile:

Soulknife is a borderline psionic class, as all they really do is create a blade with the force of their mind. I'm sure I've seen an arcane version of it in Dragon mag somewhere...

Anyway. It's often access to the psionic feats (like the ever-favorite Up The Wall) that's more fun than the actual power level of the class.

ianus
2008-06-08, 06:25 AM
Great idea u had for soulknife, especially using the practiced mind blade feat from dragon mag #341 its going to be a nice soulknife-swashbuckler -and soo cool :smallwink:-

JeminiZero
2008-06-08, 09:25 AM
My Advice: If you want to play a class that can spontaneously manifest a powerful energy weapon from nothing more than sheer force of will, go with a Glaive-lock.

Nevermore
2008-06-08, 09:41 AM
I've played a Soul Knife in a low magic campaign; its nice to have the only magic weapon in the party, I can tell you.

Project_Mayhem
2008-06-08, 09:59 AM
So how good/bad is the gleemax fix then? I've used it before, but it was a very unoptimised game, and it never really got past level 4.