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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Witch's Cottage up to Archwizard's Castle (spells to become a stronghold builder)



rferries
2017-09-28, 06:56 PM
https://i.imgur.com/rssqtAz.jpg

"It's not much, but it's home."

VoxRationis's post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?537599-The-Devouring-Mists-of-Swethmore-(a-wizard-spell)-(PEACH)) inspired me to reread the Stronghold Builder's Guide. These spells duplicate some of the effects described in that book, allowing you to quickly and (relatively) cheaply create your own domain/dungeon for adventurers to invade. The effects are powerful but since they're all almost entirely for flavour (unless your DM actually decides to lay siege to you), I think they're acceptable.

In general, a stronghold is best suited to wizards (due to the number of different spells you need), which fits the classic flavour IMHO. Sorcerers can squeeze by if they're willing to resort to limited wish and wish to mimic the spells, however.

Cost of buildings you can enchant is given in the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#buyingBuildings). Through judicious use of wall of stone, wall of iron, major creation, fabricate, stone shape, and other spells you can reduce or eliminate the cost of buying a building (with your DM's permission of course). Otherwise, the stronghold spells deliberately have no XP or gp costs, as they're all almost entirely for flavour.

Stronghold Creation

https://i.imgur.com/VSCpd2J.jpg

Witch's Cottage
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within the area to be warded
Area: See text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The spellcasting has been long and difficult, but you complete it at last. You feel the magic rushing through the air and settling upon your humble abode, transforming it into your place of power.

You enchant a simple hut, house, or cottage into being your stronghold. The stronghold is subdivided into multiple areas: the building, the grounds, and the border. Other spells that interact with your stronghold typically affect one or more of these areas.


Building: The structure you are enchanting, up to three 20-foot squares. You may also include a small attic and/or cellar but no other stories.
Grounds: The entire area extending from the building's exterior out to close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels).
Border: The outer perimeter of the grounds.

Environmental conditions (temperature, humidity, air circulation, etc.) within the building are under your limited control. You may make it as comfortable, damp, chilly, stuffy, or sweltering as you wish. Wash basins and the like produce water as you command, fireplaces may burn without need of fuel, pantries keep food chilled, and so forth.

Your stronghold provides several other benefits, as follows:

Minions
Your stronghold always has a staff of one improved unseen servant, as from unseen entourage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?532218-Improved-Unseen-Servant-Unseen-Entourage-Unseen-Army) save that it can travel anywhere within the stronghold (but not beyond the borders) and need not remain within range of you.

Your stronghold is patrolled by one arcane eye. You need not concentrate to direct the motion of this eye but it cannot go beyond the stronghold borders.

Your stronghold has one magic mouth effect, placed anywhere you desire. The effect resets itself after being discharged, and you may change its location and message once per day as a full-round action.

Any unseen servants, arcane eyes, or magic mouths that are destroyed or dispelled are replaced at the end of each day.

Whenever you summon (e.g. via summon monster), create (e.g. via animate dead, create greater undead, etc.), or craft (e.g. via Craft Construct, clone, or simulacrum) a creature within your stronghold, you may choose to link it to the stronghold to ignore any XP costs involved. Linked creatures always obey you without question, do not count towards any HD limit of creatures you can command, heal naturally as though they were living creatures, and are destroyed if they go beyond the stronghold borders.

Finally, once per day you may use animate objects as a spell-like ability, save that the effect lasts until the next time you use it. Animated objects can be commanded to lie in wait until intruders approach, and lose their animation if they are taken beyond the stronghold borders.

Magic
Your entire stronghold and everything within it is warded as if by detect scrying, nondetection and dimensional lock (these effects do not interfere with your own spells).

Your stronghold is lit (or obscured) by your choice of any number and combination of continual flame, dancing lights, darkness, daylight, deeper darkness, faerie fire, and light effects. You may reset these effects once per day as a full-round action.

All doors, chests, and portals in the stronghold are arcane locked. Your unseen servants and linked creatures may bypass these locks. Once each day you may assign any number of passwords to any number of the locks; any creature that speaks the password can bypass the appropriate lock.

While within your stronghold, you gain a +1 bonus to your caster level and may use detect magic, disguise self, mage armour, mage hand, magic missile, prestidigitation,and shield at will as spell-like abilities. The bonus to your caster level applies to all [Stronghold] spells, even if you are outside the stronghold.

While casting certain spells within your stronghold, you may link them to your stronghold to ignore all material components and XP costs. Linked spells with a duration greater than instantaneous have their duration increased to permanent, replenish themselves after 10 minutes if they are discharged or partly (but not completely) dispelled, and are dispelled if removed from the stronghold. Spells that can be linked include:

gate (planar travel only)
magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law with inscribed dimensional anchor
major creation, minor creation (created items can't be used as spell components and vanish beyond the stronghold borders)
seeming, veil
spectral hand
teleportation circle (target location may be reset as a full-round action)

The following spells may also be linked to your stronghold, though they are suppressed while within 5 feet of another linked spell from this list:

alarm, explosive runes, fire trap, mage's faithful hound, sepia snake sigil

hypnotic pattern, rainbow pattern, scintillating pattern

forcecage, wall of fire, wall of force, wall of ice, wind wall, prismatic sphere, prismatic wall

Additionally, the following spells can be linked to your stronghold. These spells generate their effect throughout the entire stronghold (regardless of their normal range or area), save for any areas you choose to exclude when linking the spell.

antimagic field
antipathy, sympathy
hallucinatory terrain, mirage arcana
guards and wards (each casting dispels the prior guards and wards)
repulsion
teleport, greater teleport, plane shift, shadow walk


When using a teleportation or shadow walk effect on your stronghold, it affects the entire stronghold and everything within it. If you have not imbued your stronghold with the appropriate planar trait (see enchanted realm), it may be destroyed in the transition (e.g. teleporting a stronghold without the water-dominant trait to the bottom of the sea will destroy it with the sudden flooding, plane-shifting a stronghold without the air-dominant trait to the Plane of Air will cause the grounds to crumble into the endless sky rather than stay as a cohesive floating island, etc.).

You may only have one stronghold effect at a time; if you gain a new stronghold effect the last one instantly ends (terminating all linked effects and destroying all linked creatures). If you die your entire stronghold is ravaged by an earthquake, fire storm, whirlwind, or other horrific effect.

The spell does not create a structure; you must craft, purchase, conjure, or otherwise obtain it yourself through mundane or magical means. However, if you cast the spell on a structure created with secure shelter or major creation, the duration of those spells becomes instantaneous (though building materials from those spells vanish if taken beyond the borders).

Unless otherwise specified, all linked effects endure as long as the stronghold does but are destroyed, dispelled, or otherwise negated if it is taken outside the stronghold borders. For example, transmuted building materials from the enchanted architecture spell revert to their original materials, and conjured wooden walls from that spell simply vanish. You may dispel, destroy, or otherwise remove any linked effect as a standard action (as though you were dismissing a spell).

Your caster level for witch's cottage and any linked effects is always equal to your current caster level (affecting the area of the stronghold grounds, the difficulty of dispelling linked spells, etc.).

Focus
A signed and notarised parchment granting you legal ownership of the building, and a small copper key.

Wizard's Tower
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within the area to be warded
Area: See text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions as witch's cottage, except as noted below. The spell may be used to enchant a tower, grand house, or any smaller building.


Building: The structure you are enchanting, up to ten 20-foot squares. You may enchant multiple stories in this way (including basements and dungeons).
Grounds: The entire area extending from the building's exterior out to medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft. level).

Minions
You have a staff of one unseen servant, arcane eye, and magic mouth per caster level.

Magic
While within your stronghold, you gain a +2 bonus to your caster level and you may use dimension door at will as a spell-like ability.

You may communicate telepathically with any creature in your stronghold, provided you know where it is (e.g. via arcane eyes or scrying).

Focus
A signed and notarised parchment granting you legal ownership of the building, and a small silver key.
Magician's Mansion
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within the area to be warded
Area: See text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions as wizard's tower, except as noted below. The spell may be used to enchant a mansion, keep, or any smaller building. You may also us this spell to enchant a mage's magnificent mansion, in which case the duration of that spell becomes instantaneous and it shifts from its extradimensional space to materialise on the Material Plane (space permitting, and not including any foodstuffs or unseen servants).


Building: The structure you are enchanting, up to twenty-five 20-foot squares. You may enchant multiple stories in this way (including basements and dungeons).
Grounds: The entire area extending from the building's exterior out to long range (400 ft. + 40 ft. level).

Minions
You have a staff of two unseen servants, arcane eyes, and magic mouths per caster level.

Magic
While within your stronghold, you gain a +3 bonus to your caster level, have a fly speed of 60 feet with perfect maneuverability, and may use greater teleport and telekinesis at will as spell-like abilities.

Focus
A signed and notarised parchment granting you legal ownership of the building, and a small golden key.
Archwizard's Castle
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within the area to be warded
Area: See text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions as magician's mansion, except as noted below. The spell may be used to enchant a castle, huge castle, or any smaller building.


Building: The structure you are enchanting, up to an entire huge castle (including all dungeons, towers, and outer walls)
Grounds: The entire area extending from the building's exterior out to 2 miles.


You may cast archwizard's castle on the same building more than once. Each time you do, the range of the grounds increases by another 2 miles (rather than simply replacing the prior stronghold effect).

Minions
You have a staff of five unseen servants, arcane eyes, and magic mouths per caster level.

Magic
While within your stronghold, you gain a +4 bonus to your caster level, you may use time stop as a spell-like ability once per day, and you benefit from a constant foresight effect.

Focus
A signed and notarised parchment granting you legal ownership of the building, and a small platinum key.
Relinquish Stronghold
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within the target stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You name a willing creature to permanently assume control of your stronghold. Their effective caster level for the stronghold is equal to their character level or your caster level when you cast this spell, whichever is greater.

Once you have relinquished a stronghold, you may establish a new one for yourself.

If you attempt to reliquish your stronghold to a creature that already has a stronghold, this spell automatically fails.

Guild
Alternatively, you may name a creature to add as a co-master of your stronghold. The effective caster level for the stronghold is equal to their character level or your caster level, whichever is greater.

If you attempt to share your stronghold with a creature that already has a stronghold, this spell automatically fails. Otherwise, you may add any number of co-owners to your stronghold.

Focus
The foci you used when establishing your stronghold, which you must give to the new stronghold owner (or duplicate and give the copies to the new co-master). Stronghold Enhancement

https://i.imgur.com/VsJDInh.jpg

Unless otherwise specified, all effects created by the following spells are considered linked to your stronghold (for the purpose of duration etc.; see witch's cottage).

Enchanted Architecture
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You finish the incantations, and nod in satisfaction. Your tower has been transformed into pure gleaming mithral, reflecting the light of the sunrise.

Upon casting this spell, you may transmute the material of your stronghold's building or conjure up walls to protect it.

Transmute
The table below shows the materials into which you can transmute your building. The effect covers the main structural components (e.g. the wood and thatched roof of a cottage, the hewn stone of a tower) of the entire building, as well as any furniture inside that you wish to alter. Repeated castings of enchanted architecture allow you to access different materials, and each transmutation can be performed in reverse. To complete the transmutation you must cast the associated spell immediately after casting enchanted architecture, or the process fails. At the DM's option other materials (e.g. gold, diamond, etc.) might be options for transmuting.



Starting Material
Transmuted Material
Spell


Wood
Confectionary1
minor creation


Wood
Darkwood2
major creation


Darkwood
Stone
flesh to stone


Stone
Bone2,3/Coral2,3
stone to flesh


Stone
Mithral
wall of iron


Mithral
Adamantine
wall of iron


Any
Any
polymorph any object


1Whenever you cannibalise a juvenile member of your race that has consumed some of this material, add 10 years to your maximum lifespan.
2At your option these materials are alive and have fast healing equal to your caster level.
3These materials are as hard as stone. Coral is suitable for aquatic strongholds; see enchanted domain

Walls
Instead of transmuting your building, you may conjure up a nonmagical wall around it. You may choose to conjure a wall around the perimeter of the building at up to close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels), or to conjure up a wall around the entire stronghold border. In either case, the wall is up 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels high and one inch thick per four caster levels. The spell creates a wall of wood. A single casting of this spell can transmute a wall (regardless of its size) into another material, as described above for buildings.

Transmuted building materials and conjured walls regain hit points each day equal to your caster level.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Aura
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 7 days
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: See text

Your enemies grow closer to madness with every step they take through your forest.

This spell wards your stronghold with powerful magical auras. Immediately after casting enchanted aura you must cast the associated spell listed below, or the process fails. You may suppress or reactivate the aura or end its effects on individual creatures as a full-round action. You may cast this spell multiple times but the effects never stack (the most recent aura replaces the older one). Any effects incurred by the aura last for at least as long as creatures remain within its area (often longer, as described below for ability damage and other effects).



Aura
Spell
Save
Effect


Accursed
bestow curse
Will
As bestow curse; if already cursed gain a lesser geas; if already geased gain a greater geas as well. All curse/geas effects predetermined by caster each day.


Charm
charm monster
Will
Become fascinated; if already fascinated become charmed as charm monster.


Despair
crushing despair
Will
As crushing despair; if already despairing take 1d6 Charisma damage.


Draining
enervation
Fort
As enervation; if already enervated take 1d6 Con damage.


Dreams
deep slumber
Will
Become fatigued; if already fatigued become exhausted; if already exhausted fall asleep.


Madness
confusion
Will
Become confused; if already confused become insane; if already insane become feebleminded and insane.


Pestilence
contagion
Fort
As contagion; if already diseased gain a new disease and trigger ability damage again for all prior diseases.


Petrification
flesh to stone
Fort
Take 1d6 points of Dexterity damage; if Dexterity reduced to 0 turn to stone.


Pixie Dust
glitterdust
Ref
Become dazzled; if already dazzled become permanently blinded. Automatically coated in glitterdust while in maze and for 1d4 hours thereafter.


Terror
fear
Will
Become shaken; if already shaken become frightened; if already frightened become panicked.



Hostile creatures must save against the aura upon entering the grounds, and an additional number of times for larger strongholds as shown below. If your grounds have an enchanted maze, interlopers must save an additional time whenever they become lost.



Stronghold
# of Saves


witch's cottage
1


wizard's tower
2


mage's mansion
3


archwizard's castle
41


1Add an additional save for each additional casting of archwizard's castle on the same stronghold.

When you cast this spell to grant an evil, fear, or mind-affecting effect it gains the descriptor of that type.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Barrier
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Your breath frosts in the suddenly-chill air. A colossal dome of frosted ice now encloses your demesne, glittering in the noon-day sun.

This spell allows you to create walls as by enchanted architecture, save that by casting certain spells you may create more powerful walls. You must cast the associated spell immediately after casting enchanted barrier or the spell fails. The walls you can create (and the spells you need to complete the casting) are given below; unless otherwise specified the walls have the same dimensions as for those conjured by enchanted architecture.



Wall
Spell


wind wall1
wind wall


wall of ice2
wall of ice


wall of fire

wall of fire



wall of force

wall of force



wall of thorns3
fabricate


blade barrier

mage's sword



prismatic wall

prismatic wall



prismatic sphere2
prismatic sphere


1Wind strength is determined as for control winds.
2This wall may be shaped into a hemisphere or sphere with a radius out to the building perimeter or the stronghold border.
3This wall is alive and has fast healing equal to your caster level.

You and your linked creatures may pass through your arcane walls without impediment or harm. A portion of wall that is destroyed or dispelled replenishes itself after 10 minutes.

When you use this spell to create an air, cold, fire, force, or light (prismatic) effect, it gains the descriptor of that type.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Chamber
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: See text

The magic races over the walls, ceiling, and floor of the bare room. Tables and shelves loaded with alchemical equipment, grimoires, and reagents spring into being, including bubbling cauldrons and helpful homunculi.

This spell allows you to furnish individual rooms in your building for a specific purpose. This generally provides a bonus on a specific skill check to any creature working in the room (including unseen servants), though it may provide additional effects as shown below. Each casting of this spell only enchants a single room (regardless of its size). You may cast this spell multiple times on the same room but the effects never stack (the most recent effect replaces the older one), and the furnishings are as spartan or opulent as you desire. Many other room types are possible, the effects of which are limited only by your imagination (and the DM's discretion).

If you do not cast major creation, fabricate, and any other spells deemed appropriate by your DM immediately after casting enchanted chamber, the spell fails.



Chamber
Skills1
Sample Effects


Alchemical Laboratory
Craft (alchemy), Spellcraft
Homunculi and mephits in the laboratory don't fight and cannot leave the room but grant the Brew Potion and/or other item creation feats to friendly creatures working here.


Armoury
-
Weapons and armour here receive the benefits of greater magic weapon, magic vestment, flaming arrow etc. spells when donned (but not outside the borders).


Auditorium
Perform (all)



Barbican, Gatehouse, Guard Tower
Intimidate, Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot
The skill bonuses apply only to creatures serving as stronghold guards (including yourself). A gatehouse may have a portcullis (as enchanted architecture/enchanted barrier), guard towers may have siege weapons, barbicans may have boiling oil/acid, etc.


Barracks, Servants' Quarters
-
Create water, create food and drink, prestidigitation etc effects house your living guards and staff in relative comfort


Bedroom
-
Grants bonus on saves against nightmare, a night hag's dream haunting, and similar effects equal to one-half your caster level.


Chapel
Knowledge (religion)
Permanent consecrate/desecrate/hallow/unhallow effects, at your option. May also be permanently attended by an outsider "priest" you have bound here by planar binding, summon monster, or the like.


Common Area, Tavern
Gather Information, Knowledge (local)
Tapestries and portraits on the walls become hypnotic/rainbow/scintillating patterns; creatures benefit from tongues while here.


Courtyard
-
Magnificent fountain producing acid, holy water, healing potion, or other magical elixir; statues animate to attack


Dining Hall
-
Banquets served here gain the properties of heroes' feasts


Dungeon, Prison, Torture Chamber
Intimidate, Sense Motive
The skill bonuses apply only against imprisoned creatures. Masterwork/magical manacles, detect thoughts, hold monster or temporal stasis effects, antimagic fields as appropriate.


Docks
Knowledge (geography), Profession (sailor), Use Rope
May be built into secret cove/river under building, or located in the grounds proper


Enchanted Mirror
-
This room is dominated by a mirror of life-trapping, mental prowess, or opposition.


Infirmary
Heal
Outsider clerics tend to wounds.


Kitchen
Profession (cook)
Create water, create food and drink, and prestidigitation effects work together to generate almost any foodstuff.


Library
Decipher Script, Knowledge (all)
Comprehend languages, explosive runes, read magic, secret page, and other writing-based effects abound here. Magical creatures of some sort serve as librarians and allow identify/analyse dweomer effects.


Shop
Appraise, Profession (any)
Staffed by mortals, fey, or other creatures at your option.


Smithy, Studio, Workplace
Craft (armoursmithing, weaponsmithing), Craft (any), etc.
Staffed by djinn, efreeti, fire/frost giants, or other supernatural craftsmen.


Stable
Handle Animal, Ride
Provides mounts, phantom steeds, nightmares, or other magical mounts.


Storage, Treasury, Vault
Appraise
Magical preservation and protective effects as you desire.


Study, Office, Throne Room
Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (nobility and riyalty), Sense Motive
The skill bonuses apply only to the creature sitting in the throne or similar; scrying pool or the like plus enchanted map that shows location of all creatures in the stronghold building and/or grounds.


Summoning Chamber
Knowledge (the planes), Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive
The skill bonuses only apply against conjured creatures; Permanent magic circle (all alignments), with inscribed dimensional anchor, gate, and teleportation circle effects.


1The room grants a circumstance bonus equal to your caster level on the relevant skill checks made here.
Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Garden
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 7 days
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: See text

You pluck a ripe fruit from a nearby tree, unafraid of the deadly vines snaking everywhere through the undergrowth. In this savage paradise, you are the master.

This spell imbues the flora and fauna of your stronghold grounds (and any arboretums and the like in the building) with supernatural danger. This spell may not function simultaneously with other stronghold spells (e.g. an enchanted architecture maze of walls of fire) without proper planar traits (e.g. the fire-dominant trait to convert the native flora and fauna to those native to fire-dominant areas). The garden is always lush and thick and provides the following benefits:

Wild Speech
You may use animal messenger, commune with nature, speak with animals, speak with plants, and stone tell at will as spell-like abilities within your stronghold.

Verdant Dangers
Hostile creatures in the garden encounter particular dangers, dependent on your caster level as shown below. If you are observing the invaders you may choose to produce any one of the listed effects from your caster level or lower (and may choose a different effect each encounter); otherwise they encounter whatever effect you specify in advance. Creatures encounter the effects upon entering the garden, and again every hour thereafter.



Caster Level
Effect


1st
entangle, summon nature's ally I


3rd
plant growth, summon nature's ally II, summon swarm


5th
snare, spike growth, summon nature's ally III



7th
giant vermin, spike stones, summon nature's ally IV


9th
black tentacles (manifests as plant roots/vines), insect plague, summon nature's ally V


11th
fire seeds, liveoak, summon nature's ally VI


13th
animate plants, creeping doom


15th
earthquake


17th
shambler, summon nature's ally IX



Wild Paradise
You can always pluck fruit, nuts, vegetables, herbs, and berries that function as goodberries from your garden. Additionally, at the DM's option, you may grow druid magic items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?536533-Faerie-Ring-Goodberry-Bush-(Druid-Wondrous-Items)&p=22393075#post22393075), black lotuses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison), and similar unique plants within your garden. Finally, dire animals and plant creatures such as assassin vines, violet fungi, and others may become native to your stronghold.

When you use a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Maze
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The adventurers in your scrying pool look utterly wretched. Sweating, soot-stained, they have wandered your fiery maze for hours. Soon their protective spells will fail, and you will have a few more charred skeletons to adorn your labyrinth.

You conjure up an elaborate maze that covers your stronghold grounds, save for any parts you wish to exclude. The maze is made of any wall you could create (or transmute) via enchanted architecture or enchanted barrier, and you must cast the associated spells for a particular wall type as you would for those spells. Maze paths may be as narrow as 5-foot squares, which may cause overlapping waves of heat from conjured walls of fire or overlapping blinding rays from prismatic walls. The Intelligence check DC to navigate a maze depends on the size and complexity of your stronghold, as shown below.



Stronghold
Maze DC


witch's cottage
18


wizard's tower
20


mage's mansion
22


archwizard's castle
241


1Increase the DC by +2 for each additional casting of archwizard's castle on the same stronghold.

On a failed check any intruders become lost and wander aimlessly for 1d4 hours, after which they may make another check (either to find your building or to flee back to the outside world). You and your linked creatures may pass through the maze without impediment or harm.

Instead of any of the other wall types, you may cast mirror image after this spell to create a maze of mirrors. Increase the DC to navigate such a maze by +5.

When you use this spell to create an air, cold, figment, fire, force, or light (prismatic) effect, it gains the descriptor of that type.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Moat
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 24 hours or 7 days
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Your moat suddenly wells up with crystal-clear holy water. Your demonic foes will find themselves burning as if immersed in acid, should they choose to cross.

Upon casting this spell, you create a magical moat around your stronghold. You must cast this spell on a pre-existing moat (typically 15 feet deep and 30 feet wide and of any length), even one created via move earth. The moat fills with your choice of acid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#acidEffects), holy water, lava (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#lavaEffects), quicksand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#marshTerrain)(appears to be level ground), diseased (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#disease)or poisoned (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison)spikes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#pitSpikes), or slimes/molds/fungi. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#slimesMoldsAndFungi)

When you use this spell to create an acid, air, cold, earth (quicksand), fire, force, good (holy water) or light (prismatic) effect, it gains the descriptor of that type.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Realm
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 week
Range: Anywhere within the area to be warded
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You are really rather pleased with yourself; your preparations were more than adequate for transporting your little realm to the Elemental Plane of Water. Colourful fish swim around you like songbirds as you stroll through your garden of kelp and coral.

You alter reality itself within your stronghold, casting certain spells to grant it certain planar traits and even the ability to physically move. Immediately after casting enchanted realm you must cast the associated spells (shown below), or the process fails. Each trait has additional special effects. You may cast this spell multiple times and the traits stack or replace each other as you wish. Each trait alters the flora and fauna of your grounds as appropriate. You and the stronghold (including all unattended objects and linked creatures therein) are never harmed by a particular trait.



Trait
Spells
Special


Self-Contained Shape
enchanted maze, maze, reverse gravity
This trait affects the stronghold building and/or grounds at your option, transforming them into an Escher-like labyrinth and/or making them appear bigger on the inside than the outside. Hostile creatures must succeed on a Intelligence check as for enchanted maze every 10 minutes to avoid getting lost for 1d4 hours in the building or grounds. You and linked creatures gain climb speeds equal to your base land speeds while in the stronghold.



Air-Dominant
fly, overland flight
You and linked creatures gain fly speeds equal to twice your base land speeds with perfect maneuverability while in the stronghold. The stronghold itself (grounds and all) gains a fly speed (via wings or levitation) of 5 feet with perfect maneuverability.


Earth-Dominant
move earth, stone shape
The stronghold (grounds and all) gains a burrow speed of 5 feet and a land speed (on your choice and number of legs) of 5 feet. Whilst underground the stronghold keeps an air pocket above the grounds and building, making a cavern.


Fire-Dominant
fireball, wall of fire
You, linked creatures, and the stronghold itself take no damage from the trait. Covers the stronghold building and/or the grounds at your option.


Water-Dominant
control water, water breathing
You and linked creatures can breathe water and gain swim speeds equal to twice your base land speeds while in the stronghold. The stronghold (grounds and all) gains a swim speed of 5 feet (with your choice of fins and/or simply bobbing along in a colossal bubble).


Minor Positive-Dominant
disrupt undead, undeath to death,
Covers the stronghold building and/or the grounds at your option.


Minor Negative-Dominant
circle of death, enervation
Covers the stronghold building and/or grounds at your option. You and linked creatures take no damage from the trait.



If your stronghold has the air-dominant, earth-dominant, or water-dominant it gains the ability to move. At your option, either the building sprouts limbs of any number and appearance that you wish (e.g. chicken legs for a cottage, multiple mechanical legs for a keep, fins for a water-dominant tower, etc. or simply no visible limbs at all) and moves alone, or the entire stronghold (including the grounds) moves as one whole. You may direct, halt, or resume the building's movement as a free action and need not concentrate on the movement. The stronghold's grounds and border are always determined from the building's current position, which will most likely terminate linked effects (e.g. spells, creatures, walls) in the old grounds if the building moves to new areas. If the stronghold moves as one whole, linked effects in the grounds are not terminated as they maintain the same distance from the building.

When you cast this spell to grant an air, death (negative), earth, fire, light (positive), or water trait it gains the descriptor of that type.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.
Enchanted Weather
Universal [Stronghold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 7 days
Range: Anywhere within your stronghold
Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: See text

The storms intensify as your mood darkens. As you observe the interlopers in your crystal ball, you decide to smite them with a few choice lightning bolts.

This spell grants you control over the weather within your stronghold grounds, allowing you to shroud it with magical mists or other effects as shown below. Immediately after casting enchanted weather you must cast the associated spell, or the process fails. You may suppress or reactivate the weather effect as a full-round action. You may cast this spell multiple times but the effects never stack (the most recent weather effect replaces the older one). Each weather effect is altered as appropriate for the planar traits of your stronghold (e.g. wind effects become strong ocean currents for a stronghold with the water-dominant trait, and mist effects permeate the waters).



Weather
Spells
Effect


Enchanted Mist
One of: obscuring mist, fog cloud, stinking cloud, solid fog, cloudkill, mind fog, acid fog, or incendiary cloud
As the associated spell. The acid fog has fog cloud properties rather than solid fog properties and the incendiary cloud has smoke (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#smokeEffects)dangers.


Enchanted Blizzard
ice storm, sleet storm
As a perpetual sleet storm, and hostile creatures are affected as by ice storm every minute.


Enchanted Elements
control weather
As the spell save that you may create any weather condition, regardless of the actual season. You may alter, suppress, or reactivate the effect as a standard action (though it takes 10 minutes for the changes to take effect). You may also duplicate the effects of call lightning storm, control winds, ice storm, sleet storm, or whirlwind once per 10 minutes, targeting any creature or area you can see or scry on.



When you cast this spell to grant an acid, air, cold, electricity, fire, or mind-affecting effect it gains the descriptor of that type.

Focus
A key of the same type as the one you used when creating your stronghold.

Westhart
2017-09-28, 08:27 PM
No time to go over these, but I love the reference to hancil and Gretel (enchanted architecture)

AOKost
2017-09-29, 05:01 PM
No time to go over these, but I love the reference to hancil and Gretel (enchanted architecture)

I concur... I don't have time to PEACH but from my quick perusal I love it! I would totally allow all this in my games! It makes it able for the party to have a base of operation and it can even be moved!

Westhart
2017-09-30, 07:47 PM
under material components you have the deed to the land... I would make this a focus, otherwise the party loses their deed...

UPSNate
2017-10-01, 06:07 PM
First I'd like to say that I am certainly not the best at balancing Homebrew. However I happen to love these spells. I'm currently writing a new Campaign world. It'll likely be the permanent world to run games in. I will certainly include these spells.
Though I did alter them. I changed the focus and Material components around. It just made much more sense to me.

rferries
2017-10-02, 09:51 AM
Whew! Finished a big overhaul (split up some of the spells and added new ones). Sorry I didn't reply earlier, guys.

I had the deed as a material component to signify that you were never going to sell your stronghold, but you're all correct that it doesn't realllly make sense that way. I may waive the deed entirely (especially if you make a stronghold out in the wilderness or on another plane, where there's no official deed to the land anyways).

Westhart
2017-10-02, 10:56 AM
Whew! Finished a big overhaul (split up some of the spells and added new ones). Sorry I didn't reply earlier, guys.

I had the deed as a material component to signify that you were never going to sell your stronghold, but you're all correct that it doesn't realllly make sense that way. I may waive the deed entirely (especially if you make a stronghold out in the wilderness or on another plane, where there's no official deed to the land anyways).

well, legal wise you might run into a noble taking you to the crown claiming the land... and if you have no deed... :smallwink:

rferries
2017-10-02, 06:19 PM
well, legal wise you might run into a noble taking you to the crown claiming the land... and if you have no deed... :smallwink:

That's the point at which you introduce him to your maze of prismatic walls, bwahaha! But fair enough, I'll edit it later. Laptop is in the shop so reduced to mobile for now.

paddyfool
2017-10-03, 08:30 AM
These are excellently worked out, but also seem a tad OP.

rferries
2017-10-03, 08:46 AM
These are excellently worked out, but also seem a tad OP.

Thanks! They definitely produce powerful effects, but I took pains to make it so those effects don't really help you. You can't take anything outside your stronghold so it won't help you on your adventures.

I whipped out the Enchanted Chamber spell, admittedly, so it may have exploits. The "DM approval" clause is therefore essential. :)

Ranged Ranger
2017-10-23, 07:21 PM
Love these! Loved the Hansel and Gretel and Baba Yaga references! I definitely agree w/ USPNate about making the key the component and the deed the focus...

Some suggestions for expantion:
1. Maybe, have the spell add a perpetuity clause that prevents the transfer of the deed to anyone who could not cast the spells themself...
2. Also an additional spell that is required for such a transfer (w/ the ability to be set up as a contingency).
3. Maybe allow for joint/corporate ownership (guild hall or cabal house)...

Deepbluediver
2017-10-23, 08:51 PM
Thanks! They definitely produce powerful effects, but I took pains to make it so those effects don't really help you. You can't take anything outside your stronghold so it won't help you on your adventures.

I whipped out the Enchanted Chamber spell, admittedly, so it may have exploits. The "DM approval" clause is therefore essential. :)
One thing that sometimes helps is saying what your end-goal is, which gives people a chance to respond and evaluate how well they think you're meeting the objective you set for yourself. Whether it's a power-adjustment, or giving your players a new tool to work with, or something story-related, etc. For example, you say this is for flavor, but it creates permanent structures (AFAICT); as something high-level characters can do to affect the gameworld, that's something that shouldn't be underestimated.

rferries
2017-10-24, 04:52 AM
Love these! Loved the Hansel and Gretel and Baba Yaga references! I definitely agree w/ USPNate about making the key the component and the deed the focus...

Some suggestions for expantion:
1. Maybe, have the spell add a perpetuity clause that prevents the transfer of the deed to anyone who could not cast the spells themself...
2. Also an additional spell that is required for such a transfer (w/ the ability to be set up as a contingency).
3. Maybe allow for joint/corporate ownership (guild hall or cabal house)...

Good suggestions, I'm in the middle of exams now so I'll incorporate them and the other ones when I get the chance.


One thing that sometimes helps is saying what your end-goal is, which gives people a chance to respond and evaluate how well they think you're meeting the objective you set for yourself. Whether it's a power-adjustment, or giving your players a new tool to work with, or something story-related, etc. For example, you say this is for flavor, but it creates permanent structures (AFAICT); as something high-level characters can do to affect the gameworld, that's something that shouldn't be underestimated.

An excellent piece of advice, however I think I'm safe here. I can add a clause that the spells "can't be duplicated via a magic item" etc. to close loopholes but in general they don't have combat utility, due to the casting time and other requirements, and out-of-combat utility is generally limited to the stronghold environs (which you presumably established out in the middle of nowhere anyways). It's not really possible to lay siege to an enemy castle by establishing a maze of walls of fire etc - if you get through the casting time while in enemy territory, you've earned the right to do so.

Caelestion
2017-10-24, 06:29 PM
These look really interesting!

Ranged Ranger
2017-10-25, 11:45 AM
Not sure how I didn't catch this before... Casting time 24 hours? Shouldn't this spell have a ritual descriptor? Even under ideal circumstances, I doubt anyone could maintain focus on a spell that long...

rferries
2017-10-25, 12:16 PM
Changed the material components into an additional focus, and added "Relinquish Stronghold" for transferring ownership or starting a guild.


Not sure how I didn't catch this before... Casting time 24 hours? Shouldn't this spell have a ritual descriptor? Even under ideal circumstances, I doubt anyone could maintain focus on a spell that long...

There's precedent for 24-hour casting times in 3.5 (see hallow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hallow.htm)etc.).

jqavins
2017-10-25, 08:36 PM
:cool::biggrin:WOOT!

For Magician's Mansion and Archwizard's Castle you still have the material components.

Since there are places where a deed (or other document showing legal ownership) may not be available, how about requiring a document "appropriate to the situation showing legitimate ownership, such as a deed, homestead claim, etc." Leave it to the DM to decide if the document is situationally legitimate and therefore sufficient for to make the spells work.

For the enhancement spells, where you require as focus a key of the same type as was used to create the keep, I'd say the very same key must be used, or a properly enchanted duplicate. Perhaps go so far as to say that the key must be in the owner's possession to operate many of the other features, i.e. those things that can be changed and reconfigured daily. Add a new spell to create duplicate keys for new co-owners or for a spare. (Recovering some uber-wizard's stolen key could make for a nice plot hook.)

For Relinquish Stronghold, I suggest a variant of the guild option whereby two (or more) wizards who each have a stronghold could have joint ownership of both by casting simultaneously. I picture a pair of wizards marrying, or establishing a guild with several wide-spread guild halls accessible to all.

I suggest that the CL bonus while inside the keep should exclude spells in this series. Otherwise you get some weird effects that I assume are not intentional. (Jumping between such keeps would be a perfect application for the teleportal feature.)

So, now I'm thinking about an NPC keep builder PRC. Witch's Cottage is the prereq, and the class grants access to the other spells in the sequence at each new class level, rather than every four levels for a wizard, in return for getting basically no other spell advancement. Some Knowledge or Profession ranks in architecture or construction should also be a prereq, but the class would then provide more such ranks at an accelerated rate. One could make a darned good living by reaching fifth level as a wizard and learning Witch's Cottage then switching to Keep Builder to get the other spells in a hurry, going about constructing these things for nobles and high level non-casters. They can't use all the features as well as a wizard could, but it'd still be both really useful and a great status symbol. There are lots of details to work out for such a class; I'll give it a shot.

rferries
2017-10-26, 02:50 AM
:cool::biggrin:WOOT!

For Magician's Mansion and Archwizard's Castle you still have the material components.

Since there are places where a deed (or other document showing legal ownership) may not be available, how about requiring a document "appropriate to the situation showing legitimate ownership, such as a deed, homestead claim, etc." Leave it to the DM to decide if the document is situationally legitimate and therefore sufficient for to make the spells work.

For the enhancement spells, where you require as focus a key of the same type as was used to create the keep, I'd say the very same key must be used, or a properly enchanted duplicate. Perhaps go so far as to say that the key must be in the owner's possession to operate many of the other features, i.e. those things that can be changed and reconfigured daily. Add a new spell to create duplicate keys for new co-owners or for a spare. (Recovering some uber-wizard's stolen key could make for a nice plot hook.)

For Relinquish Stronghold, I suggest a variant of the guild option whereby two (or more) wizards who each have a stronghold could have joint ownership of both by casting simultaneously. I picture a pair of wizards marrying, or establishing a guild with several wide-spread guild halls accessible to all.

I suggest that the CL bonus while inside the keep should exclude spells in this series. Otherwise you get some weird effects that I assume are not intentional. (Jumping between such keeps would be a perfect application for the teleportal feature.)

So, now I'm thinking about an NPC keep builder PRC. Witch's Cottage is the prereq, and the class grants access to the other spells in the sequence at each new class level, rather than every four levels for a wizard, in return for getting basically no other spell advancement. Some Knowledge or Profession ranks in architecture or construction should also be a prereq, but the class would then provide more such ranks at an accelerated rate. One could make a darned good living by reaching fifth level as a wizard and learning Witch's Cottage then switching to Keep Builder to get the other spells in a hurry, going about constructing these things for nobles and high level non-casters. They can't use all the features as well as a wizard could, but it'd still be both really useful and a great status symbol. There are lots of details to work out for such a class; I'll give it a shot.

Whoops thanks, fixed.

The document is fine as-is, I think. If it's unclaimed territory just claim it in your own name and that should be sufficiently "legal".

The key being uniquely enchanted is a cool idea, but it's meant to be more symbolic - the wizard has a spiritual connection to their domain so they can command it through sheer willpower. Plus, even if such a key was lost the wizard could just re-cast the stronghold spell rather than questing to get the key back.

For joint ownership the two wizards should share the same Stronghold, IMHO, just just retain their own strongholds and visit each other.

I hadn't thought about the CL affecting the stronghold spells, but I think that's ok too. There aren't any recursive loops, just minor benefits if you load up on buffs before leaving the stronghold.

The prestige class sounds awesome! I'd even give them full casting, with the proviso that they take severe penalties when outside their stronghold. I look forward to seeing it :)

Westhart
2017-10-26, 06:57 AM
One thing I noticed, for the descriptions you have "Duration: See text" then the text doesn't say, I assumed permanent/instantaneous?

Also, are walls of fire etc solid with this spell? Otherwise you could charge through some of the effects... especially with something to ward against the fire damage...

jqavins
2017-10-26, 10:35 AM
I hadn't thought about the CL affecting the stronghold spells, but I think that's ok too. There aren't any recursive loops, just minor benefits if you load up on buffs before leaving the stronghold.
I was thinking of the effects like range of the keep spells. Since they expand with level, your boundary is further out when you're in your keep than when you're away from it. So, cross the line and suddenly said line is a hundred feet behind you. What if you've created the outer wall with Enchanted Architecture? Does it move? That's the one that jumped out at me, and I'd expect other surprises like it once the spells go into use.

As for the PRC, full casting while inside her own keep is fine, but minor since the idea is someone who builds keeps for other people. Full casting all the time plus early access to the building spells would be abusive.

Westhart
2017-10-26, 10:40 AM
Hey jqavins, (if you do make the PrC) you should have them be able to create "back doors" so they can infilitrate castles etc they made :belkar:

You could also give them the ability to keep the benefits of strongholds they made and transferred... maybe as a capstone?

Sorry for the tangent!

jqavins
2017-10-26, 12:03 PM
Hey jqavins, (if you do make the PrC) you should have them be able to create "back doors" so they can infilitrate castles etc they made :belkar:

You could also give them the ability to keep the benefits of strongholds they made and transferred... maybe as a capstone?
To quote Mirror Spock, "I shall consider it."

Holya
2017-10-26, 04:40 PM
How does this stack with spells that let you create demi planes? you know like Genesis and other said spells that create your own little reality. Would casting this since you are technically the create of the plane also automatically rule you the ruler/owner of the area and expand to match the original space of the spell that created the demi plane? Or would you have to spam the spell till it matches the range?

jqavins
2017-10-26, 06:07 PM
But you can't spam it; you can only have one at a time. Making a second one makes the first disappear. But it's a neat idea, putting your keep on a private demi-plane. Now that's security.

Holya
2017-10-26, 08:09 PM
But you can't spam it; you can only have one at a time. Making a second one makes the first disappear. But it's a neat idea, putting your keep on a private demi-plane. Now that's security.

I miss read and thought the size clause for the level nine version of this was on all of them where multiple castings of the spell increases the flat range of it. Still would a spell that creates a demi plane be able to be attached to this spell line? So would attaching one cause a planeshift effect or would you have your own demi plane inside of the aoe of the spell which would in a way cause you to have your own on plane demi plane that causes the area inside the effected area of the cottage spell to be bigger then the area it takes up in the real world? Like the tartus from doctor who.

rferries
2017-10-29, 09:34 AM
One thing I noticed, for the descriptions you have "Duration: See text" then the text doesn't say, I assumed permanent/instantaneous?

Also, are walls of fire etc solid with this spell? Otherwise you could charge through some of the effects... especially with something to ward against the fire damage...

Aaargh I knew I forgot something. Rather than rewrite each of the enhancement spells individually I've put a note at the top about them being linked to the stronghold (e.g. walls from enchanted architecture last indefinitely, but vanish if removed from the grounds or if the stronghold building flies off and leaves them behind via enchanted realm).

The walls aren't solid so that's a risk you take against fire-immune creatures. Note that a fiery maze takes long enough to navigate that resist energy and protection from energy probably won't do the job, even if you barrel straight through (unless you fly or can see the building you won't know which direction to run through the maze anyways). Otherwise it's a very deadly maze against most enemies!


I was thinking of the effects like range of the keep spells. Since they expand with level, your boundary is further out when you're in your keep than when you're away from it. So, cross the line and suddenly said line is a hundred feet behind you. What if you've created the outer wall with Enchanted Architecture? Does it move? That's the one that jumped out at me, and I'd expect other surprises like it once the spells go into use.

As for the PRC, full casting while inside her own keep is fine, but minor since the idea is someone who builds keeps for other people. Full casting all the time plus early access to the building spells would be abusive.

I had originally liked the idea of the grounds expanding whenever the master is at home, but you're right that it's inelegant. I've added a clause that the caster level bonus always applies to [Stronghold] effects (even while you're outside it).


How does this stack with spells that let you create demi planes? you know like Genesis and other said spells that create your own little reality. Would casting this since you are technically the create of the plane also automatically rule you the ruler/owner of the area and expand to match the original space of the spell that created the demi plane? Or would you have to spam the spell till it matches the range?

You'd have to spam genesis to benefit from the full range of the grounds etc. (since a genesis plane has finite borders). Create demiplane in Pathfinder was an inspiration for these spells (e.g. the traits you can assign), in 3.5 it's not clearly defined what you can and can't do so these spells are more specific.


But you can't spam it; you can only have one at a time. Making a second one makes the first disappear. But it's a neat idea, putting your keep on a private demi-plane. Now that's security.

Indeed!


I miss read and thought the size clause for the level nine version of this was on all of them where multiple castings of the spell increases the flat range of it. Still would a spell that creates a demi plane be able to be attached to this spell line? So would attaching one cause a planeshift effect or would you have your own demi plane inside of the aoe of the spell which would in a way cause you to have your own on plane demi plane that causes the area inside the effected area of the cottage spell to be bigger then the area it takes up in the real world? Like the tartus from doctor who.

That's a cool idea (the TARDIS effect). I've edited the Self-Contained Shape option from enchanted realm to allow for that if the wizard so desires. Otherwise, I don't think there's a need for a separate planar spell - just create a plane with genesis, then use planeshift (as a linked spell) to shift your stronghold to that plane.


Thanks for feedback everyone!

jqavins
2017-10-31, 10:56 PM
OK, here's the promised prestige class.

Stronghold BuilderThe stronghold builder is a master of a special group of spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?537715-Witch-s-Cottage-up-to-Archwizard-s-Castle-(spells-to-become-a-stronghold-builder)) that allow him to create buildings and grounds with an amazing range of special qualities and abilities. The Stronghold Builder gains early access to high level spells in this series, in return for sharply reduced casting in general. Such a person creates wondrous and spectacular homes, keeps, strongholds, and estates for the rich and powerful, who pay handsomely for them.
Hit Die: d4

Prerequisites
To qualify to become a stronghold builder, a character must meet the following criteria.

Skills: Knowledge or Profession (any building related) 7 ranks

Special: Wizard level 4
At fourth level (or higher) a wizard (if she has the proper skill[s]) may, upon gaining another character level, choose to become a stronghold builder rather than taking the next level of wizard.

Class Skills
The stronghold builder’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually, Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the stronghold builder.

Table 1: The Stronghold Builder


Level
Special
Spells per Day




1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
Contractor; + 4 skill points
2
2
2
2


2nd
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
3
3
3
3


3rd
+4 skill points
3
3
3
3


4th
+4 skill points
3
3
3
3


5th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


6th
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
4
4
4
4


7th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


8th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


9th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


10th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


11th
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
4
4
4
4


12th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


13th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


14th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


15th
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


16th
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
4
4
4
4


BAB and Saves: For attacks and saving throws, the stronghold builder’s levels are added to her wizard levels, and the wizard table is used.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As wizard.

Contractor: If you have a signed, legal (or otherwise binding) contract with a customer to build a stronghold, you may do so without sacrificing your own stronghold. When casting the stronghold creation spells for a customer, you must include the contract as an additional focus item.

Extra Skill Points: At each level, the stronghold builder gains four extra skill points that may be spent on any Knowledge or Profession skill related to construction or architecture. These points are in addition to the skill points gained at each level (2 + Int modifier) and may be applied in excess of the usual limit on points in a skill per level.

Spellcasting: The stronghold builder gains access to a small range of spells from the wizard spell list that would otherwise be well beyond his level. In return for this ability, he looses access to all other spells, except when he is within his own wizard’s stronghold.
The stronghold builder always knows all the spells from the stronghold builder list, Table 2 appropriate to her level. Outside of her own stronghold, the stronghold builder can cast spells each day as per Table 1 (in addition to those she may cast from wizard levels).
Inside his stronghold, he casts spells as a wizard whose levels are equal to his actual wizard level plus his stronghold builder level, in addition to the stronghold builder spells.

Table 2: Stronghold Builder Spells


1st Level Spells
2nd Level Spells
3rd Level Spells
4th Level Spells


Witch’s Cottage
Relinquish Stronghold
Enchanted Architecture
Enchanted Aura
Enchanted Chamber
Enchanted Garden
Enchanted Mote
Enchanted Weather
Backup Key
Disrupt Undead1
Alarm1
Charm Person1
Obscuring Mist1
Fog Cloud1
Glitterdust1
Hypnotic Pattern1
Spectral Hand1
Deep Slumber1
Explosive Runes1
Fireball1
Fly1
Magic Circle Against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law1
Sepia Snake Sigil1
Sleet Storm1
Stinking Cloud1
Water Breathing1
Wind Wall1
Wizard’s Tower
Transfer Stronghold
Enchanted Barrier
Enchanted Maze
Enchanted Realm
Replacement Key
Bestow Curse1
Charm Monster1
Confusion1
Contagion1
Crushing Despair1
Enervation1
Fear1
Fire Trap1
Hallucinatory Terrain1
Ice Storm1
Minor Creation1
Rainbow Pattern1
Solid Fog1
Stone Shape
Wall Of Fire1
Wall Of Ice1
Wall of Stone
Cloudkill1
Fabricate1
Mage's Faithful Hound1
Mage's Private Sanctum1
Major Creation1
Overland Flight1
Seeming1
Teleport1
Wall Of Force1
Magician’s Mansion
Bequeath Stronghold
Acid Fog1
Antimagic Field1
Circle Of Death1
Control Water1
Flesh To Stone1
Guards And Wards1
Mind Fog1
Mirage Arcana1
Move Earth1
Repulsion1
Shadow Walk1
Stone To Flesh1
Veil1
Wall Of Iron
Control Weather1
Forcecage1
Greater Teleport1
Mage's Sword1
Plane Shift1
Reverse Gravity1
Undeath To Death1
Archwizard’s Castle
Antipathy1
Incendiary Cloud1
Maze1
Polymorph Any Object1
Prismatic Wall1
Scintillating Pattern1
Sympathy1
Gate1
Prismatic Sphere1
Teleportation Circle1


1. These spells can only be used in association with stronghold building.



Many of the features of the dwellings enchanted by the stronghold creation spells can be controlled by the wizards who live in them, for example, the changing of the furnishings, and the directing of the minions. When the stronghold builder creates a stronghold for a customer who is not a wizard or sorcerer, that customer receives help in controlling these features. The stronghold creation spells all require a key as a focus. Ordinarily, any key of the appropriate type may be used, but when the customer is not an arcane full caster, the builder must use the same key for all spells employed, and that key becomes enchanted to provide the proud owner with the ability to control the features of his abode.
Spell Research: The stronghold builder may learn other wizard spells and craft alterations to the stronghold building spells in order to incorporate them either into the stronghold’s defenses, structure, and decorations, or for use by the owner later. Creating the altered creation spell is a spell research activity, though with an improved chance of success and shortened time and cost. The spell to be included may be one that is accessible based on wizard levels, but if it is not then it must be created as special stronghold builder spell as standard spell research.

Spells researched in this way might include, for example, Hold Person as a defense, and Clairvoyance/Clairaudience as a capability for later use.

New Spells

Backup Key
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

By means of this spell, you copy the enchantment from the key used in creating a stronghold for your customer to a second key of the same type. The customer may use the two keys interchangeably, or keep one safe as a backup. The focus objects for the spell are the deed, the contract, and the original key.

Replacement Key
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

With this spell, you recreate the enchantment of a lost key on a replacement key of the same type. The focus objects are the deed to the stronghold and the original construction contract. (Note, stronghold builders often charge customers more for the use of this spell than the spell level and caster level would ordinarily demand.)

Transfer Stronghold
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One hour
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Because many of their customers can’t cast Relinquish Stronghold, stronghold builders have developed this spell to use on their behalf. The current owner and the new owner must both take part in the casting. The focus objects are the deed and the key.

Bequeath Stronghold
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One hour
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Only stronghold builders know the secret to this spell, so for this service even wizards may be their customers. The owner of a stronghold may designate an heir, and draw up a legal document attesting to the choice. This document is either the owner’s will or a codicil thereunto. The owner must participate in the casting of the spell, after which the new document carries the magic until the owner’s death. Upon the owner’s death, the document must be officially read within seven days or the magic fades and the stronghold is destroyed. (See Witch’s Cottage.)The focus objects are the deed, the key, and the new document.

Westhart
2017-10-31, 11:07 PM
PEACH it tomorrow, got other things (IRL) going on atm, but at a quick glimpse it looks lovely!

Caelestion
2017-11-01, 05:03 AM
That prestige class is bizarre, to say the least. You can't enter it until 5th, due to the 7 ranks requirement, and if they're supposed to be substitution levels (hence the 16 level PrC!), then there's no point providing separate attack or save bonuses.

Moreover, what skills do you envisage as being so useful as being so useful that you can potentially invest 64 points in them (above level caps!), other than Craft (construction), which you don't mention at all, Knowledge (engineering) or Profession (architect)? Why not just give one bonus rank in those three skills per class level and leave it at that?

rferries
2017-11-01, 07:02 AM
OK, here's the promised prestige class.

Stronghold BuilderThe stronghold builder is a master of a special group of spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?537715-Witch-s-Cottage-up-to-Archwizard-s-Castle-(spells-to-become-a-stronghold-builder)) that allow him to create buildings and grounds with an amazing range of special qualities and abilities. The Stronghold Builder gains early access to high level spells in this series, in return for sharply reduced casting in general. Such a person creates wondrous and spectacular homes, keeps, strongholds, and estates for the rich and powerful, who pay handsomely for them.
Hit Die: d4

Prerequisites
To qualify to become a stronghold builder, a character must meet the following criteria.

Skills: Knowledge or Profession (any building related) 7 ranks

Special: Wizard level 4
At fourth level (or higher) a wizard (if she has the proper skill[s]) may, upon gaining another character level, choose to become a stronghold builder rather than taking the next level of wizard.

Class Skills
The stronghold builder’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually, Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the stronghold builder.

Table 1: The Stronghold Builder


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Spells per Day








1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
+0
+0
+0
+1
Contractor; + 4 skill points
2
2
2
2


2nd
+1
+0
+0
+1
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
3
3
3
3


3rd
+1
+1
+1
+2
+4 skill points
3
3
3
3


4th
+2
+1
+1
+2
+4 skill points
3
3
3
3


5th
+2
+1
+1
+3
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


6th
+3
+2
+2
+3
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
4
4
4
4


7th
+3
+2
+2
+4
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


8th
+4
+2
+2
+4
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


9th
+4
+3
+3
+5
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


10th
+5
+3
+3
+5
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


11th
+5
+3
+3
+6
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
4
4
4
4


12th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+6
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


13th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+7
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


14th
+7/+2
+4
+4
+7
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


15th
+7/+2
+5
+5
+8
+4 skill points
4
4
4
4


16th
+8/+3
+5
+5
+8
Wizard bonus feat; +4 skill points
4
4
4
4



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As wizard.

Contractor: At first level, the stronghold builder gains Contractor as a bonus feat.

Extra Skill Points: At each level, the stronghold builder gains four extra skill points that may be spent on any Knowledge or Profession skill related to construction or architecture. These points are in addition to the skill points gained at each level (2 + Int modifier) and may be applied in excess of the usual limit on points in a skill per level.

Spellcasting: The stronghold builder gains access to a small range of spells from the wizard spell list that would otherwise be well beyond his level. In return for this ability, he looses access to all other spells, except when he is within his own wizard’s stronghold.
The stronghold builder always knows all the spells from the stronghold builder list, Table 2 appropriate to her level. Outside of her own stronghold, the stronghold builder can cast spells each day as per Table 1 (in addition to those she may cast from wizard levels).
Inside his stronghold, he casts spells as a wizard whose levels are equal to his actual wizard level plus his stronghold builder level, in addition to the stronghold builder spells.

Table 2: Stronghold Builder Spells


1st Level Spells
2nd Level Spells
3rd Level Spells
4th Level Spells


Witch’s Cottage
Relinquish Stronghold
Enchanted Architecture
Enchanted Aura
Enchanted Chamber
Enchanted Garden
Enchanted Mote
Enchanted Weather
Backup Key
Disrupt Undead1
Alarm1
Charm Person1
Obscuring Mist1
Fog Cloud1
Glitterdust1
Hypnotic Pattern1
Spectral Hand1
Deep Slumber1
Explosive Runes1
Fireball1
Fly1
Magic Circle Against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law1
Sepia Snake Sigil1
Sleet Storm1
Stinking Cloud1
Water Breathing1
Wind Wall1
Wizard’s Tower
Transfer Stronghold
Enchanted Barrier
Enchanted Maze
Enchanted Realm
Replacement Key
Bestow Curse1
Charm Monster1
Confusion1
Contagion1
Crushing Despair1
Enervation1
Fear1
Fire Trap1
Hallucinatory Terrain1
Ice Storm1
Minor Creation1
Rainbow Pattern1
Solid Fog1
Stone Shape
Wall Of Fire1
Wall Of Ice1
Wall of Stone
Cloudkill1
Fabricate1
Mage's Faithful Hound1
Mage's Private Sanctum1
Major Creation1
Overland Flight1
Seeming1
Teleport1
Wall Of Force1
Magician’s Mansion
Bequeath Stronghold
Acid Fog1
Antimagic Field1
Circle Of Death1
Control Water1
Flesh To Stone1
Guards And Wards1
Mind Fog1
Mirage Arcana1
Move Earth1
Repulsion1
Shadow Walk1
Stone To Flesh1
Veil1
Wall Of Iron
Control Weather1
Forcecage1
Greater Teleport1
Mage's Sword1
Plane Shift1
Reverse Gravity1
Undeath To Death1
Archwizard’s Castle
Antipathy1
Incendiary Cloud1
Maze1
Polymorph Any Object1
Prismatic Wall1
Scintillating Pattern1
Sympathy1
Gate1
Prismatic Sphere1
Teleportation Circle1


1. These spells can only be used in association with stronghold building.



Many of the features of the dwellings enchanted by the stronghold creation spells can be controlled by the wizards who live in them, for example, the changing of the furnishings, and the directing of the minions. When the stronghold builder creates a stronghold for a customer who is not a wizard or sorcerer, that customer receives help in controlling these features. The stronghold creation spells all require a key as a focus. Ordinarily, any key of the appropriate type may be used, but when the customer is not an arcane full caster, the builder must use the same key for all spells employed, and that key becomes enchanted to provide the proud owner with the ability to control the features of his abode.

New Feats
Contractor [General]
You can create a stronghold for another, even though you have one of your own.

Prerequisites: Stronghold Builder

Benefit: If you have a signed, legal (or otherwise binding) contract with a customer to build a stronghold, you may do so without sacrificing your own stronghold. When casting the stronghold creation spells for a customer, you must include the contract as an additional focus item.

Special: A stronghold builder gains this feat automatically at first level.

New Spells

Backup Key
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

By means of this spell, you copy the enchantment from the key used in creating a stronghold for your customer to a second key of the same type. The customer may use the two keys interchangeably, or keep one safe as a backup. The focus objects for the spell are the deed, the contract, and the original key.

Replacement Key
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

With this spell, you recreate the enchantment of a lost key on a replacement key of the same type. The focus objects are the deed to the stronghold and the original construction contract. (Note, stronghold builders often charge customers more for the use of this spell than the spell level and caster level would ordinarily demand.)

Transfer Stronghold
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One hour
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Because many of their customers can’t cast Relinquish Stronghold, stronghold builders have developed this spell to use on their behalf. The current owner and the new owner must both take part in the casting. The focus objects are the deed and the key.

Bequeath Stronghold
Enchantment

Level: Stronghold Builder 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One hour
Range: Touch
Area: The key to be enchanted
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Only stronghold builders know the secret to this spell, so for this service even wizards may be their customers. The owner of a stronghold may designate an heir, and draw up a legal document attesting to the choice. This document is either the owner’s will or a codicil thereunto. The owner must participate in the casting of the spell, after which the new document carries the magic until the owner’s death. Upon the owner’s death, the document must be officially read within seven days or the magic fades and the stronghold is destroyed. (See Witch’s Cottage.)The focus objects are the deed, the key, and the new document.


Wow, great work!


That prestige class is bizarre, to say the least. You can't enter it until 5th, due to the 7 ranks requirement, and if they're supposed to be substitution levels (hence the 16 level PrC!), then there's no point providing separate attack or save bonuses.

Moreover, what skills do you envisage as being so useful as being so useful that you can potentially invest 64 points in them (above level caps!), other than Craft (construction), which you don't mention at all, Knowledge (engineering) or Profession (architect)? Why not just give one bonus rank in those three skills per class level and leave it at that?

It could use some minor edits as you suggest, but as it's pretty clearly intended as an NPC class I think it's fine overall.

Westhart
2017-11-01, 07:23 AM
For the class, here are my thoughts on it:
They are construction based, I would increase the HD to a d6 :smalltongue:. i don't think it would be OP, they are giving up cantrips, 5-9th level spells after all.

I would increase the skill points to 4+Int (2+ is lame IMO)

Spellcasting: "In return for this ability, he looses access to all other spells, except when he is within his own wizard’s stronghold." So at home he gets 9ths?

Also on spell list: Maybe give them true creation at 4th?

Contractor: I would make this a class ability, as is you get it anyways with a 1 level dip, and you have to be from the class, so anyone that has it already has a level in this class. Making it a class ability instead of a feat just eliminates trading it away, whether with DCFS or retraining.

The spells look balanced, I like this class, now just need to find an epic game that isn't "infinite loops allowed" or highly optimized :smallbiggrin:

jqavins
2017-11-01, 09:59 AM
They are construction based, I would increase the HD to a d6 :smalltongue:.They're wizard variants, not likely to be doing the hand's on physical construction much. They should be knowledgeable on how it's done and able to do it now and then, but still they're basically highly specialized wizards. So I retained the wizard hit die.

I would increase the skill points to 4+Int (2+ is lame IMO)I would increase skill points to (4+int mod)/level for Sor/Wiz in general, but to fit in with established classes I stayed with the lame wizard figure. (I could replace that with "as wizard" so anyone who house rules better skills for wizards will be giving them here too.) It's extra lame for a building specialist, which is why I compensated with the extra four per level.


Spellcasting: "In return for this ability, he looses access to all other spells, except when he is within his own wizard’s stronghold." So at home he gets 9ths? Yes. With the help of the boost from his own stronghold he is able to remain a full caster.


Also on spell list: Maybe give them true creation at 4th?Yes, I should take another pass through the Sor/Wiz list and there may be a handful more spells he should have.


Contractor: I would make this a class ability...Indeed, that would be a simpler way to say the same thing. I'll make the change.


That prestige class is bizarre, to say the least. You can't enter it until 5th, due to the 7 ranks requirement, and if they're supposed to be substitution levels (hence the 16 level PrC!), then there's no point providing separate attack or save bonuses.They can't enter it until 5th level explicitly, and the 7 ranks was chosen to fit with that. I chose 5th level for entry because the entry point for the stronghold spells that rferries started with is third level spells. At first I had thought of making Witch's Cottage a prereq., but that would have meant delaying entry until 6th, which I didn't want to do. (And if I had, the ranks prereq. would have been 8.)

If I can simplify the attacks/saves as you suggest, I should indeed do that.


Moreover, what skills do you envisage as being so useful as being so useful that you can potentially invest 64 points in them (above level caps!), other than Craft (construction), which you don't mention at all, Knowledge (engineering) or Profession (architect)?
Knowledge, Profession, and Craft skills are wide open in what can be learned, not limited to the paltry list of examples in print. I neglected to include Craft in the allowed skills for applying the bonus points and for the prereq. But as for what they may be applied to, it can be any Craft, Knowledge, or Profession in any building trade, architecture, surveying, engineering, landscaping, interior design, etc. 64 ranks actually isn't enough to spread around as much as one might like.

And, yes, as rferries noted it is absolutely an NPC class. "Creat[ing] wondrous and spectacular homes, keeps, strongholds, and estates for the rich and powerful, who pay handsomely for them" is a good career for someone with wizard training who doesn't want to come face to face with monsters, but it would make for pretty boring gaming.

I should have some updates tomorrow night. (I'll be turning in early tonight because I have to get to work stupid early tomorrow.)

Westhart
2017-11-01, 10:17 AM
They're wizard variants, not likely to be doing the hand's on physical construction much. They should be knowledgeable on how it's done and able to do it now and then, but still they're basically highly specialized wizards. So I retained the wizard hit die.

Ahh, fair enough then.


I would increase skill points to (4+int mod)/level for Sor/Wiz in general, but to fit in with established classes I stayed with the lame wizard figure. (I could replace that with "as wizard" so anyone who house rules better skills for wizards will be giving them here too.) It's extra lame for a building specialist, which is why I compensated with the extra four per level.

Fair enough then, in the games I run I just give everyone a +2 to skills/level :smallbiggrin:


Yes. With the help of the boost from his own stronghold he is able to remain a full caster.

Ah, that's nice, I like it!
[quote]
It looks nice, have a game I'm starting off a module, although I think (now, due to this, and rerries spells :smalltongue:, if it goes that far...) I have an idea on how to expand it afterwards.

Caelestion
2017-11-01, 05:09 PM
Knowledge, Profession, and Craft skills are wide open in what can be learned, not limited to the paltry list of examples in print. I neglected to include Craft in the allowed skills for applying the bonus points and for the prereq. But as for what they may be applied to, it can be any Craft, Knowledge, or Profession in any building trade, architecture, surveying, engineering, landscaping, interior design, etc. 64 ranks actually isn't enough to spread around as much as one might like.

Exactly how many skills do you think that encompasses? Are you the sort of person who thinks that Knowledge (occult) or Knowledge (divination) are suitable potential skills when Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft already exist? Knowledge (architecture and engineering) is already a weak skill as it is!

jqavins
2017-11-01, 10:37 PM
Exactly how many skills do you think that encompasses? Are you the sort of person who thinks that Knowledge (occult) or Knowledge (divination) are suitable potential skills when Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft already exist? Knowledge (architecture and engineering) is already a weak skill as it is!
Weak for a PC, but damned useful for an architect! If any knowledge, craft, or profession is good for what you're doing or want to do, and the DM buys it, it's valid. Any druid or ranger is likely to have Knowledge (nature), but if you want to be especially an expert in bugs by taking ranks in knowledge (entomology) then go for it. Sure, it's nonoptimal, but that's a player's prerogitive.

And in this case, it's an NPC. So, when the rich merchant with pretenrions of nobility wants to show off his new magical stronghold, maybe he'll hire the stronghold builder with lots of ranks in craft (landscaping), knowledge (horticulture), and craft (gardening).

Ranged Ranger
2017-11-02, 01:08 AM
I like this class...

They can't enter it until 5th level explicitly, and the 7 ranks was chosen to fit with that. I chose 5th level for entry because the entry point for the stronghold spells that rferries started with is third level spells. At first I had thought of making Witch's Cottage a prereq., but that would have meant delaying entry until 6th, which I didn't want to do. (And if I had, the ranks prereq. would have been 8.)
I'm assuming this is 7 ranks in a single skill, not a total of 7 ranks in appropriate skills or 7 ranks each in related skills...

Knowledge, Profession, and Craft skills are wide open in what can be learned, not limited to the paltry list of examples in print. I neglected to include Craft in the allowed skills for applying the bonus points and for the prereq. But as for what they may be applied to, it can be any Craft, Knowledge, or Profession in any building trade, architecture, surveying, engineering, landscaping, interior design, etc. 64 ranks actually isn't enough to spread around as much as one might like.
I like the bonus skill points, esp. giving highly specialized individuals the ability to exceed the normal rank cap.

And, yes, as rferries noted it is absolutely an NPC class. "Creat[ing] wondrous and spectacular homes, keeps, strongholds, and estates for the rich and powerful, who pay handsomely for them" is a good career for someone with wizard training who doesn't want to come face to face with monsters, but it would make for pretty boring gaming.
I don't know... if you're allowed the "right" shenanigans in the right setting, it could be fun on a PC... You are a full caster while in your own stronghold: "I cast Meteor Swarm out the window of my Moving Castle". Not particularly practical, but in a non-serious campaign it could be fun... especially if this is only one side of a Gestalt Build... :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:


Fair enough then, in the games I run I just give everyone a +2 to skills/level :smallbiggrin:
Accross the board +w skills/level? I like that rule. :smallbiggrin:

Caelestion
2017-11-02, 06:57 AM
If any knowledge, craft, or profession is good for what you're doing or want to do, and the DM buys it, it's valid. Any druid or ranger is likely to have Knowledge (nature), but if you want to be especially an expert in bugs by taking ranks in knowledge (entomology) then go for it. Sure, it's nonoptimal, but that's a player's prerogitive.

There's a difference between 'non-optimal' and 'essentially worthless', but I think that's a topic for a different thread.

Westhart
2017-11-02, 07:17 AM
Accross the board +w skills/level? I like that rule. :smallbiggrin:

I preferred it over consolidation, less work on the GM... and I'm lazy :smalltongue:

Jormengand
2017-11-05, 01:35 PM
So to be clear, a 9th-level wizard can, with these spells, create a flying fortress, surrounded by a constant hailstorm, with several effects like an infinite supply of potions, an infinite supply of nightmares, a gate, a teleportation circle, and so forth...

...and you don't think that this is a cause for concern?

jqavins
2017-11-05, 05:35 PM
The stronghold builder class updated according to feedback. As a summary of the changes:

Simplified by making Contractor a class ability rather than a new feat.
Simplified by removing the BaB and saves columns from the table in favor of a sentence.
Added the ability to add spells to the list and use them for construction through spell research. This portion could still use some fleshing out, or it can be left to the DM.

As to that last, I was on the verge of going through the entire Sor/Wiz spell list to pick out those that would be useful to this class, when I remembered that the original descriptions of the 14 spells list only certain particular spells that can be incorporated, and I already have all of those. (That's where I started.) So instead, I added the following:

Spell Research: The stronghold builder may learn other wizard spells and craft alterations to the stronghold building spells in order to incorporate them either into the stronghold’s defenses, structure, and decorations, or for use by the owner later. Creating the altered creation spell is a spell research activity, though with an improved chance of success and shortened time and cost. The spell to be included may be one that is accessible based on wizard levels, but if it is not then it must be created as special stronghold builder spell as standard spell research.

Spells researched in this way might include, for example, Hold Person as a defense, and Clairvoyance/Clairaudience as a capability for later use.

rferries
2017-11-06, 07:49 AM
So to be clear, a 9th-level wizard can, with these spells, create a flying fortress, surrounded by a constant hailstorm, with several effects like an infinite supply of potions, an infinite supply of nightmares, a gate, a teleportation circle, and so forth...

...and you don't think that this is a cause for concern?

Yep! All linked creatures and effects vanish once you leave the stronghold (so you can't load up on potions of stoneskin etc. before leaving to fight a boss battle), it's really all flavour benefits. Adventures are generally based around the PCs going to their enemies, not about the enemies coming to the PCs (though these spells facilitate plot hooks like a siege on your stronghold).

rferries
2017-11-06, 07:51 AM
The stronghold builder class updated according to feedback. As a summary of the changes:

Simplified by making Contractor a class ability rather than a new feat.
Simplified by removing the BaB and saves columns from the table in favor of a sentence.
Added the ability to add spells to the list and use them for construction through spell research. This portion could still use some fleshing out, or it can be left to the DM.

As to that last, I was on the verge of going through the entire Sor/Wiz spell list to pick out those that would be useful to this class, when I remembered that the original descriptions of the 14 spells list only certain particular spells that can be incorporated, and I already have all of those. (That's where I started.) So instead, I added the following:

Yeah I invested wayyyyy to much time in going through the spell lists for effects that were appropriate for a stronghold. Your generalised clause is much more elegant.

Jormengand
2017-11-06, 11:17 AM
Adventures are generally based around the PCs going to their enemies.

What, you mean like with their flying, teleporting fortress?

Ranged Ranger
2017-11-06, 11:44 AM
What, you mean like with their flying, teleporting fortress?

I kinda alluded to this option earlier... It's generally only useful as a siege tower, though... If you try to teleport to the Big Bad in their dungeon/stronghold/etc there probably won't be room for your stronghold to fit, and you risk having it destroyed by the collision/intrusion with the chamber walls...

rferries
2017-11-06, 11:50 AM
What, you mean like with their flying, teleporting fortress?

Scry-and-die tactics are nothing new and are much more effective with other spells.


I kinda alluded to this option earlier... It's generally only useful as a siege tower, though... If you try to teleport to the Big Bad in their dungeon/stronghold/etc there probably won't be room for your stronghold to fit, and you risk having it destroyed by the collision/intrusion with the chamber walls...

Precisely. You can't really use it to target enemies, though you could perhaps lay waste to a countryside (and the low-level NPCs inhabiting it) by flying your fire-dominant tower through it, at least until the GM decides the local kingdoms are going to band against you.

Jormengand
2017-11-06, 12:00 PM
Scry-and-die tactics are[...] much more effective with other spells.

Not really, apart from your other magnum opus of brokenness, omnipotence. Who wouldn't want a tower of infinite spells on their side in a battle?


Precisely. You can't really use it to target enemies, though you could perhaps lay waste to a countryside (and the low-level NPCs inhabiting it) by flying your fire-dominant tower through it, at least until the GM decides the local kingdoms are going to band against you.

"This is a really effective tactic, until the DM decides to use rule 0 to stop you" isn't really a compelling argument. Point out that the local kingdoms have no concievable way of knowing who was in the tower, let alone where the hell it came from, went, or any of the other information they would need to band against you. Not to mention that anyone who goes "Ah, this person with whom we have no quarrel in particular has demonstrated that they have the power to destroy entire kingdoms they don't like. We have no way of locating them and aren't certain of their motives or capabilities. Let's fight them!" is a complete idiot.

rferries
2017-11-06, 12:17 PM
Not really, apart from your other magnum opus of brokenness, omnipotence. Who wouldn't want a tower of infinite spells on their side in a battle?

Hey, I'm going to start off by saying that I have always made an effort to be as polite as possible in my posts here. I actually went so far as to apologise to the guy in the other thread by PM, because judging by the vehemence of his last post it seemed I had personally offended him (and I was worried we were going to draw the wrath of the mods haha!). Better safe than sorry; God knows tone is hard to assess in this medium! With that in mind, I'm going to ask you to extend me the same courtesy and refrain from insults, ok?


"This is a really effective tactic, until the DM decides to use rule 0 to stop you" isn't really a compelling argument. Point out that the local kingdoms have no concievable way of knowing who was in the tower, let alone where the hell it came from, went, or any of the other information they would need to band against you. Not to mention that anyone who goes "Ah, this person with whom we have no quarrel in particular has demonstrated that they have the power to destroy entire kingdoms they don't like. We have no way of locating them and aren't certain of their motives or capabilities. Let's fight them!" is a complete idiot.

Well, that works both ways. Even if the stronghold could be used as an offense, who do you aim it at? If you know who to gun for, they should have the chance to know you're coming. Similarly, any options available to the PCs (including stronghold spells) should be available to the kingdoms as well. A stronghold vs stronghold battle could make for an epic fight! :)

Jormengand
2017-11-06, 01:26 PM
Hey, I'm going to start off by saying that I have always made an effort to be as polite as possible in my posts here. I actually went so far as to apologise to the guy in the other thread by PM, because judging by the vehemence of his last post it seemed I had personally offended him (and I was worried we were going to draw the wrath of the mods haha!). Better safe than sorry; God knows tone is hard to assess in this medium! With that in mind, I'm going to ask you to extend me the same courtesy and refrain from insults, ok?

I'm refraining quite well from attacking you, but attacking your work and your defence of it is the whole point of what I'm doing here. I can hardly critique your work without critiquing it. And honestly, your nonchalant dismissal of anyone with a modicum of game design experience (I don't know how long AvatarVecna has been doing this, but I know from his work that he's pretty good, and I've been doing this for thirteen years so I like to think I know what I'm on about) raising exceptionally serious concerns about your flagrant crimes against balance, and the fact that you seem to be totally incapable of agreeing with any feedback which doesn't excessively praise your work - work which in omnipotence's case wasn't particularly imaginative, wasn't very impressive in technical detail, flew in the face of the system it was intrinsically linked to, and caused issues with balance to the tune of being literally thousands of times as powerful as it had any right to be - makes it very, very difficult to be anything other than at least a little critical.


Well, that works both ways. Even if the stronghold could be used as an offense, who do you aim it at? If you know who to gun for, they should have the chance to know you're coming.

The fact that a teleporting flying fortress is way, way, way easier to hide than a non-teleporting non-flying city kinda defeats that point.


Similarly, any options available to the PCs (including stronghold spells) should be available to the kingdoms as well. A stronghold vs stronghold battle could make for an epic fight! :)

I think that "Yeah well the enemy can have one too and then it's balanced" is basically the ultimate admission that your thing is not balanced.

Ranged Ranger
2017-11-08, 09:49 PM
-SNIP-The fact that a teleporting flying fortress is way, way, way easier to hide than a non-teleporting non-flying city kinda defeats that point.-SNIP-


-SNIP-Precisely. You can't really use it to target enemies, though you could perhaps lay waste to a countryside (and the low-level NPCs inhabiting it) by flying your fire-dominant tower through it, at least until the GM decides the local kingdoms are going to band against you.

Jormengand, I'm still not seeing how any of these abuses are usefully exploitable by PCs? Attacking major cities? Laying waste to vast swaths of the countryside (including mass-murder of the civilian population)? These sound like the activities of an archvillain and possibly a plot-hook for mid-to-high level adventures.

Unless the campaign was specifically designed for archvillain PCs, it seems like any PC behaving in this manner is inviting the invocation of rule 0.

Core spells can also become significantly more powerful under certain rare circumstances. So how are exploits that can only be used by non-villains in extremely rare situations a problem for balance?

Westhart
2017-11-09, 07:32 AM
Jormengand, I'm still not seeing how any of these abuses are usefully exploitable by PCs? Attacking major cities? Laying waste to vast swaths of the countryside (including mass-murder of the civilian population)? These sound like the activities of an archvillain and possibly a plot-hook for mid-to-high level adventures.

Unless the campaign was specifically designed for archvillain PCs, it seems like any PC behaving in this manner is inviting the invocation of rule 0.

Core spells can also become significantly more powerful under certain rare circumstances. So how are exploits that can only be used by non-villains in extremely rare situations a problem for balance?

Note, I'm not siding with anyone just felt like pointing some things out:
>A lot of parties don't play straight good characters... its boring :smalltongue:
>Referring to rule 0 is not good for balance
>Core spells are some of the most broken spells in the game.

Jormengand
2017-11-09, 11:04 AM
Jormengand, I'm still not seeing how any of these abuses are usefully exploitable by PCs? Attacking major cities? Laying waste to vast swaths of the countryside (including mass-murder of the civilian population)? These sound like the activities of an archvillain and possibly a plot-hook for mid-to-high level adventures.

Unless the campaign was specifically designed for archvillain PCs, it seems like any PC behaving in this manner is inviting the invocation of rule 0.

Core spells can also become significantly more powerful under certain rare circumstances. So how are exploits that can only be used by non-villains in extremely rare situations a problem for balance?

Attacking major bastions of evil might be a better use for PCs, say. Or just taking your free fortress with you that can blow up the evil dragon you're trying to slay, or throw on a bajillion buffs on the archer or mage PCs who are staying in the fortress. It's not "Extremely rare" that you might want to, essentially, destroy anything, kill anyone, heal anyone, or move anywhere - those are relatively standard PC activities. To say it's "Extremely rare" is disingenuous bordering on wilfully ignorant.

Deepbluediver
2017-11-09, 11:25 AM
Attacking major bastions of evil might be a better use for PCs, say. Or just taking your free fortress with you that can blow up the evil dragon you're trying to slay, or throw on a bajillion buffs on the archer or mage PCs who are staying in the fortress. It's not "Extremely rare" that you might want to, essentially, destroy anything, kill anyone, heal anyone, or move anywhere - those are relatively standard PC activities. To say it's "Extremely rare" is disingenuous bordering on wilfully ignorant.
Dropping a building on someone (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/f5/2e/3bf52eb30b4bd3742017ac65b002ea05.jpg) actually seems like a decent way to resolve a LOT of problems, especially when it didn't cost you anything and you can just conjure up a new one. :smallwink:

Personally, I don't see this stuff as more broken than what's in core, but I'm not sure that's the best comparison to make because the stuff in core can be REALLY BROKEN. Now, you can run a perfectly fine game with just core material- whether its stated or just assumed, there are lots of people out there who agree not to abuse various possibilities because they know it makes the game less fun and leads to an escalating arms race. The problem is for people who see things the other way- they are given tools so why not use them? The GM wouldn't give this stuff to players if it wasn't meant to be exploited, right? A gameworld that's already dealing with all the tier 1 magic, like Tippyverse, might be able to handle it. But if you introduce this into a typical dung-ages fantasy setup, where 99% of NPCs are level-1 commoners and the party is the only real group with class-levels, things are going to start cracking pretty quickly.

jqavins
2017-11-09, 02:20 PM
Dropping a building on someone (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/f5/2e/3bf52eb30b4bd3742017ac65b002ea05.jpg) actually seems like a decent way to resolve a LOT of problems, especially when it didn't cost you anything and you can just conjure up a new one. :smallwink:
I was in a party that actually did this once. We couldn't just conjure up another one, but that was OK because it wasn't ours. But I digress.

Ranged Ranger
2017-11-10, 05:15 AM
-SNIP-"Extremely rare" is disingenuous bordering on wilfully ignorant.
Allow me to invoke the softer version of Hanlon's Razor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor): "Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding."

I'm sorry, my statements seem to have come from naivety on my part... I've only played with a few very similar groups... We didn't have any evil PC's at the table, and even when we weren't playing a dungeon crawl the enemy leader was almost always entrenched in a place where teleporting in something as large as a fortress would not have been possible.

In those campaigns it would have been extremely rare, If other DMs put their boss fights out in the open or have campaign worlds with "bastions of evil" large/open enough for those tactics to work, then it wouldn't be rare...

noob
2017-11-10, 07:34 AM
I guess that you never considered the approach: destroy the bbeg fortress by making fortresses fall on it repetitively and spamming earthquake and any of the other dungeon breaking Technics.
Once the bbeg fortress have crumbled to ruins exploring is no longer adventuring: it is archaeology(and spamming that spell that makes eyes that travel through stone).

Westhart
2017-11-10, 08:20 AM
I guess that you never considered the approach: destroy the bbeg fortress by making fortresses fall on it repetitively and spamming earthquake and any of the other dungeon breaking Technics.
Once the bbeg fortress have crumbled to ruins exploring is no longer adventuring: it is archaeology(and spamming that spell that makes eyes that travel through stone).

BBEG- What are you doing?
Me- Waiting
BBEG- Waiting? but why?
[CRASH]
Me-That.

:smallbiggrin:
Of course that ignores the only 1 at a time thing I think?

jqavins
2017-11-10, 10:53 AM
Of course that ignores the only 1 at a time thing I think?
The one at a time thing combined with the fact that the stronghold building spells don't create the structure; that has to be done first by other means, magical or mundane. And if you have magical means of creating and/or assembling large quantities of stone then the stronghold spells don't change much when it comes to dropping said stones on the BBEG. And they change nothing when it comes to spamming earthquakes, using umberhulks to undermine, spamming fireballs to set the countryside ablaze, etc.

rferries
2017-11-11, 09:01 AM
I'm refraining quite well from attacking you, but attacking your work and your defence of it is the whole point of what I'm doing here. I can hardly critique your work without critiquing it. And honestly, your nonchalant dismissal of anyone with a modicum of game design experience (I don't know how long AvatarVecna has been doing this, but I know from his work that he's pretty good, and I've been doing this for thirteen years so I like to think I know what I'm on about) raising exceptionally serious concerns about your flagrant crimes against balance, and the fact that you seem to be totally incapable of agreeing with any feedback which doesn't excessively praise your work - work which in omnipotence's case wasn't particularly imaginative, wasn't very impressive in technical detail, flew in the face of the system it was intrinsically linked to, and caused issues with balance to the tune of being literally thousands of times as powerful as it had any right to be - makes it very, very difficult to be anything other than at least a little critical.

I realised too late in the other thread that while I was aiming for "good-natured" in my responses they were coming off as "nonchalant", hence my apologising to AvatarVecna after his blow-up. Though after a recent PM from him I've come to the unfortunate conclusion it wasn't worth taking his feelings into consideration after all.

The rest of your comment kind of underlines my point - not only are you bringing up homebrew from an entirely different thread but you're not being constructively critical while doing so - a lot of negatives but no suggestions for improvement. You're being particularly unfair in that I did edit the spells according to feedback, albeit not to anyone's total satisfaction perhaps (least of all my own haha).


The fact that a teleporting flying fortress is way, way, way easier to hide than a non-teleporting non-flying city kinda defeats that point.

I think that "Yeah well the enemy can have one too and then it's balanced" is basically the ultimate admission that your thing is not balanced.

RAI is indeed a cop-out but sometimes you have to use it, same as you do for the wall of iron/fabricate cheat. The stronghold spells are clearly written for flavour rather than function - if a GM allows a PC to use these spells it's with the understanding that they won't be abused.


Jormengand, I'm still not seeing how any of these abuses are usefully exploitable by PCs? Attacking major cities? Laying waste to vast swaths of the countryside (including mass-murder of the civilian population)? These sound like the activities of an archvillain and possibly a plot-hook for mid-to-high level adventures.

Unless the campaign was specifically designed for archvillain PCs, it seems like any PC behaving in this manner is inviting the invocation of rule 0.

Core spells can also become significantly more powerful under certain rare circumstances. So how are exploits that can only be used by non-villains in extremely rare situations a problem for balance?

Hah! You're right, these spells SHOULD be abuseable by evil PCs :D Otherwise agreed; games don't happen in a vacuum so if a PC is running wild with the spells they should be smacked down just as Pun-Pun would be.


Note, I'm not siding with anyone just felt like pointing some things out:
>A lot of parties don't play straight good characters... its boring :smalltongue:
>Referring to rule 0 is not good for balance
>Core spells are some of the most broken spells in the game.

All good points.


Attacking major bastions of evil might be a better use for PCs, say. Or just taking your free fortress with you that can blow up the evil dragon you're trying to slay, or throw on a bajillion buffs on the archer or mage PCs who are staying in the fortress. It's not "Extremely rare" that you might want to, essentially, destroy anything, kill anyone, heal anyone, or move anywhere - those are relatively standard PC activities. To say it's "Extremely rare" is disingenuous bordering on wilfully ignorant.

Again, in the unlikely event that the DM allows you to use the stronghold in combat your foes (whether good or evil) should have appropriate defenses/counterattacks, be they stronghold spells or anti-stronghold spells or somesuch.


Dropping a building on someone (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/f5/2e/3bf52eb30b4bd3742017ac65b002ea05.jpg) actually seems like a decent way to resolve a LOT of problems, especially when it didn't cost you anything and you can just conjure up a new one. :smallwink:

Personally, I don't see this stuff as more broken than what's in core, but I'm not sure that's the best comparison to make because the stuff in core can be REALLY BROKEN. Now, you can run a perfectly fine game with just core material- whether its stated or just assumed, there are lots of people out there who agree not to abuse various possibilities because they know it makes the game less fun and leads to an escalating arms race. The problem is for people who see things the other way- they are given tools so why not use them? The GM wouldn't give this stuff to players if it wasn't meant to be exploited, right? A gameworld that's already dealing with all the tier 1 magic, like Tippyverse, might be able to handle it. But if you introduce this into a typical dung-ages fantasy setup, where 99% of NPCs are level-1 commoners and the party is the only real group with class-levels, things are going to start cracking pretty quickly.

Agreed, there must always be a contract between DM and players not to break the game and players who can't be trusted to follow that compact souldn't be allowed to use the new "toys". I don't get too worked up about the potential for things being 'broken" when I've gone out of my way to detail how they should be kept under control (linked effects etc.) - any potential exploits are something to address with the players at that point rather than rewriting the spells.


I was in a party that actually did this once. We couldn't just conjure up another one, but that was OK because it wasn't ours. But I digress.

Ha awesome.


Allow me to invoke the softer version of Hanlon's Razor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor): "Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding."

I'm sorry, my statements seem to have come from naivety on my part... I've only played with a few very similar groups... We didn't have any evil PC's at the table, and even when we weren't playing a dungeon crawl the enemy leader was almost always entrenched in a place where teleporting in something as large as a fortress would not have been possible.

In those campaigns it would have been extremely rare, If other DMs put their boss fights out in the open or have campaign worlds with "bastions of evil" large/open enough for those tactics to work, then it wouldn't be rare...

Yes, a little graciousness goes a long way, especially in this medium where tone can be so hard to read. We're all here to have fun at the end of the day, no need to be venomous with each other.

It's funny how mechanics (be they spells, feats, magic items etc.) an have radically different applications, depending on the campaign setting, yes.


I guess that you never considered the approach: destroy the bbeg fortress by making fortresses fall on it repetitively and spamming earthquake and any of the other dungeon breaking Technics.
Once the bbeg fortress have crumbled to ruins exploring is no longer adventuring: it is archaeology(and spamming that spell that makes eyes that travel through stone).

Most of the mass of the stronghold would vanish when the spell effect ended... plus you need a lot of prep time to spam the spell so after the first attempt the BBEG would be ready (assuming he/she wasn't already forewarned). Makes for a hilarious, Wizard of Oz-type visual though ("Now begone, Sauron! Before somebody drops a house on you, too!"). :D


BBEG- What are you doing?
Me- Waiting
BBEG- Waiting? but why?
[CRASH]
Me-That.

:smallbiggrin:
Of course that ignores the only 1 at a time thing I think?

Details, details... :D


The one at a time thing combined with the fact that the stronghold building spells don't create the structure; that has to be done first by other means, magical or mundane. And if you have magical means of creating and/or assembling large quantities of stone then the stronghold spells don't change much when it comes to dropping said stones on the BBEG. And they change nothing when it comes to spamming earthquakes, using umberhulks to undermine, spamming fireballs to set the countryside ablaze, etc.

Yeah, magic has an infinite number of destructive applications.

Deepbluediver
2017-11-11, 09:44 AM
Agreed, there must always be a contract between DM and players not to break the game and players who can't be trusted to follow that compact souldn't be allowed to use the new "toys". I don't get too worked up about the potential for things being 'broken" when I've gone out of my way to detail how they should be kept under control (linked effects etc.) - any potential exploits are something to address with the players at that point rather than rewriting the spells.
My point was mainly that the possibility of exploitation is something you should be aware of when homebrewing.
One thing that I've found helpful is to state right at the start of my original post (where it can't be missed) what my intended goal with a particular 'brew is. That can help people determine if you want them to look for balance or point out things that need clarification or you simply want them to consider the story elements or anything else, and you won't get it (or maybe just have fewer) arguments over stuff that you might not care about.

Jormengand
2017-11-11, 09:51 AM
I think excessive use of Oberoni Fallacy to defend this kinda proves it's broken. Ideally, you should write homebrew that the DM shouldn't have to nerf or restrict via rule zero in order for it to be remotely playable, let alone actually balanced.

rferries
2017-11-11, 10:52 AM
My point was mainly that the possibility of exploitation is something you should be aware of when homebrewing.
One thing that I've found helpful is to state right at the start of my original post (where it can't be missed) what my intended goal with a particular 'brew is. That can help people determine if you want them to look for balance or point out things that need clarification or you simply want them to consider the story elements or anything else, and you won't get it (or maybe just have fewer) arguments over stuff that you might not care about.

Well, I did include such a clause at the start of this post (including explicit mentions re: flavour) yet seem to have landed in another debate nonetheless. Them's the breaks, I guess :D


I think excessive use of Oberoni Fallacy to defend this kinda proves it's broken. Ideally, you should write homebrew that the DM shouldn't have to nerf or restrict via rule zero in order for it to be remotely playable, let alone actually balanced.

Perhaps the following example will be helpful. Note that once you have a 9th-level wizard it can be repeated ad nauseam and relies strictly on RAW:

0) Party wizard scries on the BBEG.
1) Party wizard teleports party to BBEG.
2) Any party member hurls "the bundle"* at the BBEG.
3) Party member (cleric/bard/rogue UMD'ing scroll/etc.) casts dispel magic at CL 1
4) BBEG is vaporised, party rakes in XP and loot and teleports back to safety if enemy minions are still around or if the original teleport didn't land on-target.
5) Rinse and repeat for a thrilling campaign! :p
*An arbitrarily large number of slips of paper inscribed with explosive runes, triggered by the low-power dispel magic and dealing sufficient force damage to kill even a tarrasque; in sufficient quantities that even evasion doesn't guarantee making all the saves.

Again, 100% RAW, using 4 core spells that are considered balanced. I assume you would allow your players to do this as often as they wished? After all, it's a perfectly valid tactic and there's no specific ruling against it...

My point is, I've already gone to great deal of trouble to write up these spells, and have taken pains to include limits on them. If a player is going to ignore the clear intent of these spells (i.e. flavour, not function), then that's on the player and their DM, not me. Otherwise, you might as ban spellcasting entirely due to the potential RAW abuses involved.

Jormengand
2017-11-11, 11:15 AM
Yes, obviously, if you push spells to their limits, they do stupid things. But relatively trivially using the spells to do what they're meant to - a fountain of infinite healing potions heals, a flying fortress flies, gates gate, unlimited spells are unlimited - shouldn't produce that level of nonsense. The only thing you really can do with these spells that's within a reasonable power level seems to be set them up and leave them there to look pretty.

Deepbluediver
2017-11-11, 11:37 AM
Well, I did include such a clause at the start of this post (including explicit mentions re: flavour) yet seem to have landed in another debate nonetheless. Them's the breaks, I guess :D
Yeah, but it's not just about what you're trying to do, but WHY you want to do it and what you ultimately hope to achieve. The "building magical fortresses" is the what you're doing, but you might want to expand a little more on where you see players taking this.

Example: Lets say you start a thread about fixing the Fighter. That's what you want to do. But "fix" is relative based on what you think the problems are and what you're comparing it to. So saying "I want to fix the Fighter so he has more out-of-combat options" gives people something specific to evaluate. As would "I want to fix the fighter by making him an unstoppable melee combat machine."
Your thread seems to kind of start with "I want to make floating magical fortresses!" and kind of ends there, so a lot of people have the knee-jerk reaction (and rightfully so IMO) of "well that seems incredibly imbalanced".

rferries
2017-11-11, 11:39 AM
Yes, obviously, if you push spells to their limits, they do stupid things. But relatively trivially using the spells to do what they're meant to - a fountain of infinite healing potions heals, a flying fortress flies, gates gate, unlimited spells are unlimited - shouldn't produce that level of nonsense. The only thing you really can do with these spells that's within a reasonable power level seems to be set them up and leave them there to look pretty.

Yes, precisely! These are meant to be fun fortresses the party can call their own. As for the individual benefits:

Fountain of healing - can't be used to stock up on potions, so basically instead of teleporting back to town to heal via downtime you go to the stronghold.

Flying Fortress - 5' move speed and since you need to know overland flight anyways you're better off casting that spell directly.

Gate - you need to know gate anyways.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like most of your issues are actually with enchanted chamber rather than the stronghold as a whole. I took extra care for that spell to mention how each of those effects are negotiable rather than something a PC is entitled to, but it's still admittedly only half-finished. I'm pretty drained WRT this homebrew by now but I suppose I could go through enchanted chamber again and write out specific, balanced options.

rferries
2017-11-11, 11:42 AM
Yeah, but it's not just about what you're trying to do, but WHY you want to do it and what you ultimately hope to achieve. The "building magical fortresses" is the what you're doing, but you might want to expand a little more on where you see players taking this.

Well, I admit hadn't thought so much about that. Why would anyone read the SBG? Plot hooks, world-building, etc, I guess. As mentioned in the 1st post I did have the idea of the DM sending the BBEGs armies at the PC's fortress as a campaign chapter.... This was mainly an attempt to duplicate the material of that book in a streamlined, accessible, and low-cost way (e.g. enchanted chamber distills 50%+ of the book into one spell).

Jormengand
2017-11-11, 11:52 AM
Yes, precisely! These are meant to be fun fortresses the party can call their own.

When you're making a homebrew, you need to check not only what it's for, and make sure it fulfils that, but what it's not for, and make sure it doesn't fulfil that. This is something that I've come across in a lot of your homebrew - omnipotence was supposed to be a spell for going nova with fireballs and such, and it is, but it's also a spell for spamming utility spells. The elf lord was meant to be a badass elves-are-awesome class, but it also turned out to be a fochluchan lyrist, minus the part where it's hard to get into, plus being way easier than most classes to get into, plus a bunch of broken stuff.

And these spells. They're meant for you to be able to create your little fort on the prarie, a castle which you can retreat to when the adventuring life gets too tough. You certainly can make that with these spells, but you can also create a flying, teleporting, blizzard-surrounded siege engine of destruction which also acts as a firing platform and healing station. And it's not as though you have to twist the intent of the spells too much to get any of those things. You need to go ahead and put some restrictions on these, because what the homebrew doesn't let you do is as important as what it does. You need to make it so that the answer to "What is this for" stops being "Everything". Or, save it for epic.

Deepbluediver
2017-11-11, 11:59 AM
Or, save it for epic.
Yeah, I sort of agree with that sentiment- some of the stuff in the PHB might not have felt quite as OP when it was written, and/or it takes a little but of effort and some extra splatbooks to really drive it home. This just kind of FEELS like it should be epic, right from the start.

Since as you pointed out, Wizards have an effectively unlimited capacity to learn spells, the difference between being able to summon your giant floating doom-fortress with one spell and needing several to put it all together feels kind of inconsequential. It's the sort of artifact I'd expect to see as the center or the climax of an entire campaign, not the kind of thing the caster rattles off when he wants to go for a weekend's vacation.

Deepbluediver
2017-11-11, 03:32 PM
The author/artist of a D&D webcomic (http://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/unconventional-mount) I occasionally read has the latest update talking about strange or unusual mounts, and ends the post with the following paragraph:


The single greatest mount I ever had that actually saw play was a tower. We took months in-game enchanting the silly thing, but the results were well worth it. Carved from indestructible black glass, our tower stood hundreds of feet high and handled like a dream. It awed the **** out of the peasantry whenever we flew it around. I’m pretty sure Immigrant Song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OtzJtp-EM) played spontaneously when we turned the ignition. If memory serves it’s still parked somewhere over the Isle of Terror in the Inner Sea Region, looming provocatively and causing an international incident.
He likes to respond to people who leave comments, so maybe you could write something to him and ask about his experience with a moving stronghold. Just a thought.

rferries
2017-11-11, 04:04 PM
When you're making a homebrew, you need to check not only what it's for, and make sure it fulfils that, but what it's not for, and make sure it doesn't fulfil that. This is something that I've come across in a lot of your homebrew - omnipotence was supposed to be a spell for going nova with fireballs and such, and it is, but it's also a spell for spamming utility spells. The elf lord was meant to be a badass elves-are-awesome class, but it also turned out to be a fochluchan lyrist, minus the part where it's hard to get into, plus being way easier than most classes to get into, plus a bunch of broken stuff.

And these spells. They're meant for you to be able to create your little fort on the prarie, a castle which you can retreat to when the adventuring life gets too tough. You certainly can make that with these spells, but you can also create a flying, teleporting, blizzard-surrounded siege engine of destruction which also acts as a firing platform and healing station. And it's not as though you have to twist the intent of the spells too much to get any of those things. You need to go ahead and put some restrictions on these, because what the homebrew doesn't let you do is as important as what it does. You need to make it so that the answer to "What is this for" stops being "Everything". Or, save it for epic.

That's very good advice, I thought I had it covered this time but obviously not so I'll be more explicit next time.


Yeah, I sort of agree with that sentiment- some of the stuff in the PHB might not have felt quite as OP when it was written, and/or it takes a little but of effort and some extra splatbooks to really drive it home. This just kind of FEELS like it should be epic, right from the start.

Since as you pointed out, Wizards have an effectively unlimited capacity to learn spells, the difference between being able to summon your giant floating doom-fortress with one spell and needing several to put it all together feels kind of inconsequential. It's the sort of artifact I'd expect to see as the center or the climax of an entire campaign, not the kind of thing the caster rattles off when he wants to go for a weekend's vacation.

Wellllllll it depends. Witch's cottage + enchanted architecture was meant to allow you to create a Hansel & Gretel gingerbread house for example, a distinctly non-epic effect. Similarly, wizard's tower could be used by an NPC or BBEG to create a thematic locale, or enchanted aura + enchanted wall could duplicate the sleep spell and thorn wall of Sleeping Beauty. Once you start erecting prismatic enchanted mazes and creating enchanted realms it gets very high-magic yes, but depending on the power level of the campaign that could be par for the course.


The author/artist of a D&D webcomic (http://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/unconventional-mount) I occasionally read has the latest update talking about strange or unusual mounts, and ends the post with the following paragraph:

He likes to respond to people who leave comments, so maybe you could write something to him and ask about his experience with a moving stronghold. Just a thought.

Thank you for the very thoughtful suggestion, but that's starting to sound like work haha. I'll save doing research and looking up references for my professional life, I'm just here to churn out some flights of fancy.