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View Full Version : Pathfinder Help me balance and nerf this appropriately: the Dual Sorcerer



Fiery Diamond
2017-09-29, 03:22 AM
Note: The design idea and balance point is making a more powerful sorcerer that is in line with gestalting two full casters. I want to keep most if not all of the elements here, I just need to figure out which parts to nerf and how.


Dual Sorcerer
Once a sorcerer, this person has been transformed by unprecedented exposure to raw magical energy into something far more powerful.

I'm not going to take the time to figure out how to do regular tables, so I'll be doing this simplified...

BAB: Half
Saves: Good Will, Poor Fort and Ref
Eschew Materials & Cantrips: As sorcerer
Spells per Day: As sorcerer
Spells Known: As sorcerer

Bloodline Stuff:
Arcana: More powerful than normal bloodline arcana (sample at the end)
Powers: Granted at the normal levels, but using more powerful bloodlines (sample at the end)
Spells: Granted two bloodline spells per spell level instead of one (sample at the end)
Feats: Learn 2 Feats instead of 1, from a larger pool of feats, when bloodline grants feats (sample at the end)

Mana Pool: For every spell slot you have, you gain a certain amount of mana points based on the spell level. You can spend those points (which refresh daily) to enhance or refresh your spells.

-Mana Points by spell slot level-
1: 1
2: 1.5
3: 2
4: 3
5: 4
6: 6
7: 8
8: 12
9: 16

-Mana Point expenditures-
Refresh Spell Slot: By spending [slot value x2] points, you can refresh a spell slot.
Example: By spending 4 points, you can restore a 3rd level slot.

Metamagicked Spell: By spending [increased spell level slot value x2] points, you can apply metamagic feats you know to a spell without increasing its spell level.
Example: By spending 16 points, you can cast a quickened fireball with a 3rd level slot.

Overwhelming Magic: By spending [slot value x3] points, you can do one of the following: 1) force affected creatures to make 2 saves and use the worse, 2) roll spell attack rolls twice and use the better, 3) roll against spell resistance twice and use the better, or 4) roll miss chance twice and use the better.
Example: By spending 6 points, you can cast a fireball that targets need to save against twice and use lower roll.

Bloodline Status Effect: By spending [???] points, you can add a status effect to your spell that lasts a number of rounds equal to the spell level, such as staggering, blinding, deafening, paralyzing, or setting on fire, and the target gets to make a save every round. The specifics would be dependent on your bloodline.
Example: I'd actually like some advice on how to figure out how to balance this.


Spell Points: For every spell you know, you gain one spell point. These points can be (but do not have to be) spent at level up, with any number of them being able to be spent at once.

-Spell Point expenditures-
Learn new spell: By spending 2 points, you can learn a new spell of at least one level lower than the highest level you can cast (at 20th level and above, you can learn new 9th level spells).

Extra skill point: By spending 1 point, you gain a bonus skill point.

Bonus feat: By spending ??? (I'm thinking 3-5) points, you gain a bonus feat.





Thunder Phoenix Bloodline (Fire & Lightning Focused)

*Bloodline Arcana: Can make any elemental spell fire or electricity.

*Bloodline Powers:
-Elemental Rays: As a supernatural ability, you can fire rays of fire or electricity 3 + cha mod times per day. These rays are a ranged touch of close range and deal 2d6 + 1 per level damage.

-Elemental Resistance: At 3rd level, Resistance 10 Fire and Electric. At 7th level, Resistance 20 Fire and Electric. At 11th level, Resistance 30 Fire and Electric. At 15th level, immunity to Fire and Electricity.

- Wreathed in Lightning and Flame: At 9th level you gain a pool of points equal to your level. This becomes your level x2 at 13th level and your level x3 at 17th level. These point recharge when you regain spell slots. You can call upon the power of fire and lightning, wreathing yourself in it, as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. This state lasts one minute or until your points are depleted. When in this state, you can use your points for the following things which do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Save DCs are 10 + level + Charisma modifier.

Retaliation: Deal 3d6/point spent (max 1 point per three levels at once) fire, electric, or half and half damage, Reflex half, as an immediate action against any foe who strikes you in melee.

Blast: Deal 3d6/point spent (max 1 point per three levels at once) fire, electric, or half and half damage, Reflex half, as a standard action against all adjacent foes.

Lash: Deal 3d6/point spent (max 1 point per three levels at once) fire, electric, or half and half damage as a standard action against a single foe in close range (or touch range) with a touch attack.

*Bird of Fire and Thunder: At 15th level you gain a fly speed of 60 feet (perfect), which manifests in giant wings, one of fire and one of lightning, whenever you take flight. Your land speed also increases by 30 feet, sparks and flames shooting out whenever you exceed your original land speed.

*Immortal Thunder Phoenix: ??? (haven't decided yet)

* Bloodline Spells: Gain two bloodline spells instead of one per spell level. If you already possess a spell, replace it with another.

1st: burning hands, shocking grasp
2nd: scorching ray, flaming sphere
3rd: fireball, lightning bolt
4th: wall of fire, ball lightning
5th: cone of cold (fire or electric), lightning arc
6th: contagious flame, chain lightning
7th: delayed blast fireball, jolting portent
8th: firestorm, stormbolts
9th: meteor storm, ride the lightning

* Bloodline Feats: Gain two feats of any metamagic, item creation, save, or skill feat or Dodge, Weapon Finesse, or Improved Initiative whenever you would gain a new bloodline feat.