Some help optimizing my Moon Druid

[sithlordnergal]

So, before I ask about my optimization question, here are a few things you need to know:

1) I am playing in Adventure's League, so I can only use published material

2) Since I am in AL, I can only use the PHB+1 other source book. My chosen +1 is Volvo's Guide to Monsters due to the beast options.

3) We are playing Tomb of Annihilation, and as such we are in Chult and have seen several dinosaurs already. Including some CR 1 beasts with a triple multiattack and pounce

4) I am planning all the way out to level 20. Since this is an AL character, I have the possibility of reaching level 20 since I can bring it to any AL game. Even if I die, as long as I am a high ranking faction member and have the gold, I can be ressurected.

5) I am level 4, this is my final chance to rebuild my character. I can change anything I like about them except the name

Now onto the actual optimization:

I am currently playing a Human Varient Moon Druid. I went with War Caster as my feat, mostly to have advantage on concentration and the ability to wield my Quarterstaff in one hand and have my shield in the other.

So far I have had great success with my animal forms. Particularly because I can turn into a Deinonychus from Volvo's, which has 3 attacks and a decent pounce. I also have plenty of utility spells, and have had great success with Animal Friendship and Speak with Animals because of how many beasts we have run into.

However, I haven't really been able to cast during combat since we have a Wizard and Warlock who take care of blasting and most battlefield control. As a result, most of my spell slos have been going to waste, and I have not had a need for War Caster.

Now, I know that will change eventually, since combat will get harder while my beast forms remain unchanged. Which will make my casting more important then my melee damage.

I am wondering if I should stay as a pure Druid all the way to level 20, or rebuild my character to be a Paladin/Druid multiclass. I would go 2 levels of Paladin, 18 Moon Druid. In order to get all the stats I need, I would go to a normal human, which gives me the 16 Wisdom I want, along with 14 Dex and 14 Con while reaching the 13 Str and Cha I need to be a Paladin.

If I go with two levels of Paladin I gain a Fighting Style, Lay on Hands for 10 hp, first level Paladin Spells, all Martial Weapons, and, the most important part, Smite.

Seeing as I will be going Druid 18, I will have the Spell Slots of a 19th level caster to cast and Smite with, Beast Spells, and I will be able to turn into a CR 6 Beast with my Wild Shape, which is the max I could do as a pure Moon Druid. Seeing as I already have a CR 1 beast with a triple multiattack, I could Smite with those, keeping my beast form a bit more competative at higher levels, while still gaining powerful spells. Not to mention, we are in a campaign with a heavy number of undead, so Smite would be amazing.

However, I would lose out on Unlimited Beast forms at level 20, a single ASI, and the build would take longer to go online. I would essentially put all of my Druid abilities on hold for two levels, which does sting a bit. Also, by going to a normal human, I lose War Caster. But I have not really needed it at all so far, and I can always grab it later.

So, should I stick as a pure Moon Druid, or should I go Druid/Paladin?

[Willie the Duck]

If you are playing Tomb of Annihilation, this is not the right tact to take. While these raw combat metrics are interesting, they will not determine your survivability. Good Saves, Good skills, having enough encumbrance capacity for lantern oil, pitons, 10 poles, beeswax, bags of flour, healing kits, waterskins, etc., and playing smart (and yes, having a high hp total) will determine your survival. As a 4th level druid, I'd take feats like resilient:con, toughness, healer, or skilled. If I were to multiclass, it'd be into rogue.

And don't worry about what happens at level 20. You won't live that long.

[sithlordnergal]

Well, so far I haven't gotten down to half health even once, and we just reached the city of Omu. The most dangerous thing we have faced were some undead monsters that could make 5 attacks each on every round...and even then they weren't able to deal enough damage to knock me out of beast form before we killed them. The form I had only had 26 hp to begin with, and I managed to tank 5 hits before I ripped it to shreds with some help from the pure Paladin in the party.

As for Saves and skills, we have a Paladin in the party to give us the Aura bonus to saves, and my perception is pretty decent with a +6 to it.

Food, water, and encumberence rules are not an issue. Encumberence is not really a thing in Adventure League, and as a Druid my armor and weapons weigh about 24 pounds total. So even with an 8 strength, I can carry 96 more pounds of gear. As for food and water, I have Create and Destroy Water, and the Barbarian has Goodberry, which provides nourishment to sustain a creature all day.

A level of Rogue wouldn't be able to help me skill or damage wise, as I already have the skills I need. At worst, I am missing the Thief Tools proficency. And two levels of Rogue gives me 1d6 sneak attack for a single attack.

Compare that to Smite, which is a minimum of 2d8 radient on every attack as long as I have spell slots. Given I can turn into something that gives me 3 attacks a round, that is an extra 12d8 radient in two rounds.

[nickl_2000]

Rogue is not a good choice for sneak attack damage, you can't sneak attack with natural weapons.

Now paladin is a good multiclass for smites, barbarian for raging, or monk for ki. All those work while in wildshape. Straight moon is great though, you don't need to multiclass.

[Avonar]

I'd definitely say this isn't worth it. The earlier you go Paladin, the later you get the awesome Druid shapes, such as elementals. Also, if you are playing a Druid to level 20, you do NOT want to lose that level 20 ability. At will Wild Shape is the most powerful level 20 ability among any class. And don't forget the 9th level Shapechange spell that lets you turn into pretty much anything you have ever seen.

You would lose that, and lose an ability score increase, to gain a little healing, a fighting style that you probably cannot use when Wild Shaping and a tiny amount of daily healing. It isn't really worth it at that point. You also cannot smite while in Wild Shape as it specifies you need to make a melee weapon attack, which does not include natural weapons I would assume. Smites also cannot use slots higher than 3rd level.

Don't forget that if you cast a concentration spell and then Wild Shape you can maintain concentration in that form. Druids have a huge number of concentration spells anyway, so use one before shifting and use spare spell slots for healing yourself as you soak the damage up.

[nickl_2000]

According to MM you can

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/08/02/druid-divine-smite-claws/

[Avonar]

According to MM you can

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/08/02/druid-divine-smite-claws/

Weird. Wouldn't personally allow it as a DM (magic in Wild Shape) but there you go.

[nickl_2000]

Weird. Wouldn't personally allow it as a DM (magic in Wild Shape) but there you go.

Your table, your rules :)

[sithlordnergal]

Yeah, I think I will stick with pure Moon Druid. As fun as it would be to use a triple attack Smite, that final druid ability is just way too good. Especially since once I get it, the only way to kill me is to either insta-kill me, or get through my full Druid HP, while also dealing with whatever high hp animals I choose to turn into...Dinos included.

And yeah, you can Smite with claws. A smite doesn't require you to cast a spell, which is why you can smite while Raging as a Barbarian, and an animal's natural weapons are considered melee weapons.

[Citan]

So, before I ask about my optimization question, here are a few things you need to know:

1) I am playing in Adventure's League, so I can only use published material

2) Since I am in AL, I can only use the PHB+1 other source book. My chosen +1 is Volvo's Guide to Monsters due to the beast options.

3) We are playing Tomb of Annihilation, and as such we are in Chult and have seen several dinosaurs already. Including some CR 1 beasts with a triple multiattack and pounce

4) I am planning all the way out to level 20. Since this is an AL character, I have the possibility of reaching level 20 since I can bring it to any AL game. Even if I die, as long as I am a high ranking faction member and have the gold, I can be ressurected.

5) I am level 4, this is my final chance to rebuild my character. I can change anything I like about them except the name

Now onto the actual optimization:

I am currently playing a Human Varient Moon Druid. I went with War Caster as my feat, mostly to have advantage on concentration and the ability to wield my Quarterstaff in one hand and have my shield in the other.

So far I have had great success with my animal forms. Particularly because I can turn into a Deinonychus from Volvo's, which has 3 attacks and a decent pounce. I also have plenty of utility spells, and have had great success with Animal Friendship and Speak with Animals because of how many beasts we have run into.

However, I haven't really been able to cast during combat since we have a Wizard and Warlock who take care of blasting and most battlefield control. As a result, most of my spell slos have been going to waste, and I have not had a need for War Caster.

Now, I know that will change eventually, since combat will get harder while my beast forms remain unchanged. Which will make my casting more important then my melee damage.

I am wondering if I should stay as a pure Druid all the way to level 20, or rebuild my character to be a Paladin/Druid multiclass. I would go 2 levels of Paladin, 18 Moon Druid. In order to get all the stats I need, I would go to a normal human, which gives me the 16 Wisdom I want, along with 14 Dex and 14 Con while reaching the 13 Str and Cha I need to be a Paladin.

If I go with two levels of Paladin I gain a Fighting Style, Lay on Hands for 10 hp, first level Paladin Spells, all Martial Weapons, and, the most important part, Smite.

Seeing as I will be going Druid 18, I will have the Spell Slots of a 19th level caster to cast and Smite with, Beast Spells, and I will be able to turn into a CR 6 Beast with my Wild Shape, which is the max I could do as a pure Moon Druid. Seeing as I already have a CR 1 beast with a triple multiattack, I could Smite with those, keeping my beast form a bit more competative at higher levels, while still gaining powerful spells. Not to mention, we are in a campaign with a heavy number of undead, so Smite would be amazing.

However, I would lose out on Unlimited Beast forms at level 20, a single ASI, and the build would take longer to go online. I would essentially put all of my Druid abilities on hold for two levels, which does sting a bit. Also, by going to a normal human, I lose War Caster. But I have not really needed it at all so far, and I can always grab it later.

So, should I stick as a pure Moon Druid, or should I go Druid/Paladin?
Hi!

So first...
Could you plz tell more about this Triple Attack Dino? Would seriously make me reconsider Moon Druid's "CR 1 potential" if this beast also happsn to have decent AC and HP.

Then for your question...
If you have any chance to go to level 20, stick with Moon Druid.

Ways to use your slots.
- Find chances to cast a Fog Cloud that is useful before shaping, later Heat Metal (you can still Wild Shape as an action).
- You can also use Heat Metal, which is also a great use of your spells, as well as Blindness, Spike Growth, Flaming Sphere etc.
- Then you get Conjure Animals.
In fact, I don't see how you couldn't find at least ONE spell that would be useful to cast at the start of the fight before Wild Shaping.
Worst of the worst case, Enhance Ability on yourself to mass-shove.
Or try to draw attacks on you and use spell slots on healing yourself to last a bit more (although that is just barely better than keeping them to finally not use them ^^).

[nickl_2000]

Is the Deinonychus from volos

Multiattack. The deinonychus makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) piercing damage.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) slashing damage.

[sithlordnergal]

Is the Deinonychus from volos

Multiattack. The deinonychus makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) piercing damage.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) slashing damage.

Don't forget about their Pounce. If you move 20ft before you attack, which is easy with 40ft movement, they have to make a DC 12 strength Save or be knocked Prone from the attack. If you knock them Prone, you get to make a Bite attack as a bonus action, on top of the normal mutliattack of 2 claws and 1 bite.

And yeah, I do have a lot of good spells...but most enemies go down so quickly I don't really get a chance to cast. Though once I reach fifth level I can try to summon raptors, which is fitting for Chult, and I will be able to make more use out of them

[Specter]

Volvo's Guide to Monsters

Globetrotter is clearly the strongest form you can have.
couldn't resist

[GlenSmash!]

Globetrotter is clearly the strongest form you can have.
couldn't resist

I find their monsters are roomy and have pleasing interiors. Once your in one you won't want to leave.

[Saggo]

Paladin is one of the most, if not the most, effective ways to optimize Wild Shape. Smite at 2, with the option of Extra Attack at 5, plus goodies. It addresses the two weaknesses of Wild Shape, shoring up lackluster damage and a use for your spell slots while wild shaped.


I'd definitely say this isn't worth it. The earlier you go Paladin, the later you get the awesome Druid shapes, such as elementals. Also, if you are playing a Druid to level 20, you do NOT want to lose that level 20 ability. At will Wild Shape is the most powerful level 20 ability among any class.
Druid capstone is fantastic, defensively. So 19 levels of cantrip-equivalent damage for 1 level of game-breaking defense and utility at the very end. Or 18 levels of useful damage with Smite. Depends on preference and length of time you think you'll even be level 20, but overall value added favors multiclassing.


You also cannot smite while in Wild Shape as it specifies you need to make a melee weapon attack, which does not include natural weapons I would assume. Smites also cannot use slots higher than 3rd level.
An attack with a melee weapon is not strictly the same thing as a melee weapon attack in this edition. Think of thrown daggers, an attack made with a melee weapon but as a ranged weapon attack.

Creature stat blocks all specify what type of attack they are and melee weapon attack is the most common one.

You can also use any level slot, you just don't increase damage past 4th.


Weird. Wouldn't personally allow it as a DM (magic in Wild Shape) but there you go.
You can burn a spell slot to heal HP in Wild Shape, so there's set precedence. The restriction is no casting, not a restriction on all spell slots.

[Mandragola]

Multiclass a Druid? Nowai!

Next level you get to start conjuring more beasts to help you. This will now use up your spell slots and require concentration, justifying your choice of war caster. It would justify resilient: con too as your 4th level feat, so if you were going to change anything now I suggest you give your character a base con of 15, increasing to 16 with resilient. This will have the added bonus of making you harder to kill.

After that you could consider feats like sentinel. You can cap out your wisdom if you like too. The 13th level Druid in my party has started to cast spells in combat more and wild shape a bit less, though she does spend a lot of time as an air elemental too. So wisdom isn’t totally redundant. Every other stat is, other than for skills and saves.

So priorities are: passing concentration, wisdom, fighting feats. Cap con if you feel like it.

[Spacehamster]

Did not know that the Swedish car company "Volvo" did a guide book to monsters! :O

[sithlordnergal]

Did not know that the Swedish car company "Volvo" did a guide book to monsters! :O

XD Whoops, didn't notice I had typed that till I saw your comment.

As for the others, I think I shall stick with pure Druid. While I do love Paladins and their Smites, I drive my poor DM mad enough with my Paladin/Sorcerer as it is. >=3 Time to change things up and summon beasts to drive him nuts instead. XD

[Willie the Duck]

Well, so far I haven't gotten down to half health even once, and we just reached the city of Omu. The most dangerous thing we have faced were some undead monsters that could make 5 attacks each on every round...and even then they weren't able to deal enough damage to knock me out of beast form before we killed them. The form I had only had 26 hp to begin with, and I managed to tank 5 hits before I ripped it to shreds with some help from the pure Paladin in the party.

As for Saves and skills, we have a Paladin in the party to give us the Aura bonus to saves, and my perception is pretty decent with a +6 to it.

Food, water, and encumberence rules are not an issue. Encumberence is not really a thing in Adventure League, and as a Druid my armor and weapons weigh about 24 pounds total. So even with an 8 strength, I can carry 96 more pounds of gear. As for food and water, I have Create and Destroy Water, and the Barbarian has Goodberry, which provides nourishment to sustain a creature all day.

A level of Rogue wouldn't be able to help me skill or damage wise, as I already have the skills I need. At worst, I am missing the Thief Tools proficency. And two levels of Rogue gives me 1d6 sneak attack for a single attack.

Compare that to Smite, which is a minimum of 2d8 radient on every attack as long as I have spell slots. Given I can turn into something that gives me 3 attacks a round, that is an extra 12d8 radient in two rounds.

Don't say you were not warned.
But then, if you haven't gotten down to half health even once, then why do you need to optimize your combat?

[sithlordnergal]

Don't say you were not warned.
But then, if you haven't gotten down to half health even once, then why do you need to optimize your combat?

You know, that is actually a good question...I mostly want to do it to bring a bit more power to the group. But, as people have pointed out, I have plenty of power in my under utilized spells, which I won't be underutilizing from now on.