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View Full Version : Help me choose my next PC



Piropoint
2007-08-16, 07:11 PM
I have narrowed down my choices to the following races, classes, and prestige classes. I have also included some themes that interest me. Let me hear your arguments for and against them.

Themes
Trickery
Subterfuge
Stealth
Espionage
Movement
Luck

Race
Gnome
Halfling
Human

Class
Bard
Psion
--Nomad
--Seer
Rogue
Wizard
--Diviner
--Illusionist

Prestige Class
Arcane Trickster (dungeon masterís guide)
Elocater (expanded psionics handbook)
Divine Oracle (complete divine)
Fortuneís Friend (complete scoundrel)
Master Specialist (complete mage)
Temple Raider of Olidammara (complete divine)
Thief Acrobat (complete adventurer)
Unseen Seer (complete mage)

tannish2
2007-08-16, 07:13 PM
ive gotta say unseen seers are good.... and why are you limiting yourself to specialist mage?

Galathir
2007-08-16, 07:18 PM
I haven't played any of your mentioned PrC's, but I also wonder about your choice of specialist wizard. At the very least you should consider a specialist in enchantment. Perhaps you already considered and rejected this idea, but have you looked at Beguiler? It can work with all your themes mentioned. A Gnome or Halfling Beguiler might work really well, especially with trickery and subterfuge.

Corlindale
2007-08-16, 07:23 PM
Given the themes you have listed, the Beguiler from PHB II seems to be the perfect choice, as it encompasses most of them(perhaps not movement and luck so much). It has most of the great trickery/subterfuge spells, an impressive skill list, and most likely as many skill points as a Rogue, if not more(only 6 base versus Rogue 8, but most likely a significantly higher Int score, as it is their casting ability). They also get Trapfinding, making them a perfectly viable Rogue-substitute.

Limiting myself to the classes you listed, I would personally go with an Illusionist/Rogue/Arcane Trickster of some kind - though I believe the Beguiler to be a more effective realization of the same concept. The I/R/AT build does have the advantage of being more versatile when it comes to spellcasting, and sneak attack progression doesn't hurt either, but it suffers from significantly delayed spell progression, which might hurt a lot.

Piropoint
2007-08-16, 08:24 PM
I've looked at beguiler before, and maybe i should take a second look. thanks.

Enchanters have never appealed to me as much as Illusionists. I would rather trick and fool someone, then control them outright. For example, I would almost certainly take the Gnome substitution levels if I played a gnome bard which would equal more illusions and less enchanting.

I think out of all the prestige classes i listed, the Master Specialist is my least favorite. I might just edit it out.

thanks for the input, keep it coming.

yango
2007-08-17, 08:06 AM
Well, since Beguiler has already been suggested...

How about Gnome Illusionist -> Master Specialist -> Shadowcraft Mage -> Shadowcrafter? If you're playing FR, you can replace MS with Harper Mage. You'll have Hide/Move Silently as a class skill for the majority of your career, and all the image spells (silent image, minor image major image, permanent image, etc) can be used to create shadow evocation/conjuration effects.

FireSpark
2007-08-17, 09:14 AM
Well, I'm going to deviate from what most have been saying, and even go so far as to suggest something you didn't put on your list.

I see that two of your class choices were Psion[Seer], and Wizard[Diviner]. Along with your themes of intrest including espionage and subterfuge, I immediately thought of a character that is able to see all / know all (from a balanced and playable perspective) in order to bypass obstacles rather than bashing in skulls. So what's my suggestion? A multiclass Psion[Seer]/Wizard[Diviner]. Then Prestige into Cerebremancer. Now before anyone hauls off an starts going blue in the face proclaiming about how Cerebremancer is as "broken" as Mystic theurge, let me just say I don't care. I happen to think it is balanced enough (a bit overpowered, but not much). And I think it's the perfect thing to advance a character build of this sort.

So there, my opinion.

dorisfrog
2007-08-17, 09:23 AM
if your going to be a wizard ,go for a domain wizard in UE if your dm allows it, I can't see any reason why a wizard should be anything less than a domain wizard

Piropoint
2007-08-17, 10:31 AM
what is the benefit of being a domain wizard?

The problem I see with going psion + wizard is that I'll have to split my feats in order to max out caster level and manifester level, plus I'll be losing the bonus feats that help a diviner or seer do well in the fist place.

dorisfrog
2007-08-17, 10:48 AM
you get an extra spell every level for free (depends what domain you choose) you also cast domain spells one caster level higher, you still get the same amount of feats and no school restrictions as you would a specialist wizard ,the only down side is your bonus spell has to be your domain spell, eg as you like sneaky types if you took the illusion domain at first level you would get 3 o level plus domain spell (ghost sound) and 1 first level plus int plus domain spell (disguise self )your domain spells do not count towards your two new spells every level
I don't think I've made it that clear but if you can get a copy of unearthed arcana its all in there

goat
2007-08-17, 10:48 AM
Considered going Psionic Rogue?