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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Save-Shifting Feats (metamagic)



rferries
2017-11-24, 09:52 PM
Grasping Spell [Metamagic]
Your opponents must physically avoid your spells, rather than relying on their own willpower.

Prerequisites
Spell Focus (evocation).

Benefits
All Will saving throws allowed by a grasping spell are instead Reflex saving throws.

A grasping spell uses up a spell slot of the same level as the spellís actual level.

Spiritual Spell [Metamagic]
Your magic strikes at the minds of your foes rather than their hearts.

Prerequisites
Spell Focus (enchantment).

Benefits
All Fortitude saving throws allowed by a spiritual spell are instead Will saving throws.

A spiritual spell uses up a spell slot of the same level as the spellís actual level.

Vital Spell [Metamagic]
Your spells cannot be dodged, only endured.

Prerequisites
Spell Focus (necromancy).

Benefits
All Reflex saving throws allowed by a vital spell are instead Fortitude saving throws.

A vital spell uses up a spell slot of the same level as the spellís actual level.

Westhart
2017-11-24, 10:18 PM
Interesting, although evasion is much more common (in my experience) then mettle so shifting a reflex to something else is more powerful then the others... I would make it +1 SL just because of the versatility. No longer do you prep (or know) one spell with fort, one with will, and one ref now you just throw these on them and switch as needed. Rogue just evaded your fireball? Well, recast and this time make it a will save!

...or you could say special defenses that would depend on a save use the base instead, in which case these feats go down a lot in worth...

...also I would put: or Evoker 1st as that is a pretty common thing as well (I think).

rferries
2017-11-25, 11:06 AM
Overcoming evasion and mettle is pretty niche though? Especially given the sup-par feat prerequisites I think these ok.

Westhart
2017-11-25, 11:11 AM
Overcoming evasion and mettle is pretty niche though? Especially given the sup-par feat prerequisites I think these ok.

I wouldn't consider the feats required sub-par. Pretty much any (alright, not every but a lot of them) good PrC for full casters require it anyhow.

JoshuaZ
2017-11-25, 11:21 AM
I agree with some of the other comments that these should be +1 to spell level, especially those which allow one to effective evade mettle and evasion. But that may make them a little too weak.

Here's my suggestion which is a little strange mechanically but might be the right balance level: Either the spell's level needs to be adjusted up by 1, or the save DC is reduced by 2, and you choose which when you prepare the spell. What do others think of that?

nonsi
2017-11-25, 11:24 AM
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I'm concerned that these feats would encourage meta-gaming.
The most believable situation (story-wise) is that a player knows as little as possible about his/her opponents (which would make any use of these feats pure gamble).

Westhart
2017-11-25, 11:28 AM
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I'm concerned that these feats would encourage meta-gaming.


Yes, that was my concern as well, "Oh, a rogue?" Use X to make it a fort or will save etc.

noob
2017-11-25, 11:44 AM
In the end turn it into a reflex save then use spellwarp sniper to remove the save from any spell with a save.
Oh you want to dominate someone? You just need to hit with your ray.

Westhart
2017-11-25, 11:49 AM
In the end turn it into a reflex save then use spellwarp sniper to remove the save from any spell with a save.
Oh you want to dominate someone? You just need to hit with your ray.

Doesn't work, dominate person is not a ray attack, unless I overlooked something. This doesn't change the spell besides the save needed.

JoshuaZ
2017-11-25, 12:05 PM
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I'm concerned that these feats would encourage meta-gaming.
The most believable situation (story-wise) is that a player knows as little as possible about his/her opponents (which would make any use of these feats pure gamble).

So, maybe require as an additional prerequisites that each feat requires a few ranks in some knowledge skills? That way they can plausibly be working in part of their knowledge of what sort of creatures are vulnerable to what?