PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Wraith Warrior (5e LotR Shadow of Mordor/War Ranger)



AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-12-01, 03:45 PM
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C6IJMiZHRo3M0U0M1l0f2fmOOUjcrg0YwLurWP6Z4GE

After buying Shadow of War, Iíve become moderately obsessed. I was thinking of ways to build Talion in vanilla 5e. And while a Horizon Walker Ranger/Hexblade Warlock works pretty well, it was still lacking something. Thatís why I wrote this. An incredibly mobile ranger with bonded weapons and some domination abilities from a wraith companion, this class was a ton of fun to write. If you have any suggestions/criticisms/questions, feel free to respond below.

Requilac
2017-12-01, 05:42 PM
This sub-class seems rather well made to me. I have very little complaints about it, but here are my few issues below

1) what is with the alignment restriction? It seems really unnecessary, and it is also against 5e's fundamental law of "alignment should effect gameplay minimally".
2) How long does it take to break the bond with a wraith weapon, and how do you do it?
3) I feel like spectral infusion could have a much cooler addition than a "a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls". Why not add something more interesting in, perhaps it could grant something like the half-orc's savage attack feature or leave some sort of DoT like the sword of wounding does? I once created a sub-class that would allow you to gain temporary hit points if you score a critical with a weapon that you cursed, and it people seemed to like that. Why not work on something a little more creative than the bland +1?

Aside from these, the class is great. The spell-casting is a nice touch, ethereal counter is powerful but not too overpowered, and wraith's wrath is awesome.

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-12-01, 08:20 PM
This sub-class seems rather well made to me. I have very little complaints about it, but here are my few issues below

1) what is with the alignment restriction? It seems really unnecessary, and it is also against 5e's fundamental law of "alignment should effect gameplay minimally".
2) How long does it take to break the bond with a wraith weapon, and how do you do it?
3) I feel like spectral infusion could have a much cooler addition than a "a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls". Why not add something more interesting in, perhaps it could grant something like the half-orc's savage attack feature or leave some sort of DoT like the sword of wounding does? I once created a sub-class that would allow you to gain temporary hit points if you score a critical with a weapon that you cursed, and it people seemed to like that. Why not work on something a little more creative than the bland +1?

Aside from these, the class is great. The spell-casting is a nice touch, ethereal counter is powerful but not too overpowered, and wraith's wrath is awesome.

Thanks for the input. To address your concerns:
1) The alignment restriction is mostly thematic. Seeing as wraiths are beings suited to controlling others, I canít honestly see a chaotic character being able to command a wraith effectively.
2) The weapon bonding is thematically the same as what an Eldritch Knight gets. The big difference is that the wraith stores the weapons instead of the weapons being magically connected to you. They follow the same rules as bonded weapons otherwise.
3) I debated it honestly. I wanted to change it to dealing Force damage, but that alone felt kinda underpowered. I debated a higher bonus than a +1 enchantment for free, but those felt a but too powerful. Thatís why I changed it to have both. The force damage bypasses resistance, and you get a little more accuracy and damage. Iíve also considered something similar to what hexblades get at level 1, but Iím hesitant here too. What would you recommend?

Requilac
2017-12-01, 11:56 PM
Thanks for the input. To address your concerns:
1) The alignment restriction is mostly thematic. Seeing as wraiths are beings suited to controlling others, I canít honestly see a chaotic character being able to command a wraith effectively.
2) The weapon bonding is thematically the same as what an Eldritch Knight gets. The big difference is that the wraith stores the weapons instead of the weapons being magically connected to you. They follow the same rules as bonded weapons otherwise.
3) I debated it honestly. I wanted to change it to dealing Force damage, but that alone felt kinda underpowered. I debated a higher bonus than a +1 enchantment for free, but those felt a but too powerful. Thatís why I changed it to have both. The force damage bypasses resistance, and you get a little more accuracy and damage. Iíve also considered something similar to what hexblades get at level 1, but Iím hesitant here too. What would you recommend?

1) alignments are much too broad in 5e, it is entirely possible for a chaotic caharacer to have enough leadership and willpower to command a wraith. There is a reason so few effects reference gameplay in 5e, and that is because it is not clearly defined. A chaotic person could easily have the capability to control a wraith while a lawful person could be completely helpless in their attempts. Not even paladins have alignment restrictions. I personally think that this is a really bad idea to include. Of course, dissatisfied DMís could always make a ruling against it, but still, in 5e it makes no sense to haven alignment restrictions on classess
2) you may want to say that in the description, i recognized that it was similar to the EKís weapon bond, but I would not intuitively know that they have the exact same mechanics. You should probably make that more clear
3) so many difffernet things could work here. Try looking at racial features, class features and magical items for inspiration. Here are just some that you could use to replace the +1 bonus
ēhafling lucky trait, but just for attack rolls (you need to improve this a little though)
ēhalf-orcís savage attacks
ēberserker barbarianís retaliation (might not be what you are looking for though)
ēsomething like college of sword bardís blade flourishes (this needs some working on though)
ēthe champion fighterís improved/superior critical
ēseveral hunter rangerís hunterís prey choices
ēthe assassin rogueís assassinate feature
ēthe sword of of stealingís feature which grants temporary hit points on a critical.
ēsword of woundingís damage-over-time trait.

There are so many different things you could do...

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-12-04, 09:43 AM
1) alignments are much too broad in 5e, it is entirely possible for a chaotic caharacer to have enough leadership and willpower to command a wraith. There is a reason so few effects reference gameplay in 5e, and that is because it is not clearly defined. A chaotic person could easily have the capability to control a wraith while a lawful person could be completely helpless in their attempts. Not even paladins have alignment restrictions. I personally think that this is a really bad idea to include. Of course, dissatisfied DMís could always make a ruling against it, but still, in 5e it makes no sense to haven alignment restrictions on classess
2) you may want to say that in the description, i recognized that it was similar to the EKís weapon bond, but I would not intuitively know that they have the exact same mechanics. You should probably make that more clear
3) so many difffernet things could work here. Try looking at racial features, class features and magical items for inspiration. Here are just some that you could use to replace the +1 bonus
ēhafling lucky trait, but just for attack rolls (you need to improve this a little though)
ēhalf-orcís savage attacks
ēberserker barbarianís retaliation (might not be what you are looking for though)
ēsomething like college of sword bardís blade flourishes (this needs some working on though)
ēthe champion fighterís improved/superior critical
ēseveral hunter rangerís hunterís prey choices
ēthe assassin rogueís assassinate feature
ēthe sword of of stealingís feature which grants temporary hit points on a critical.
ēsword of woundingís damage-over-time trait.

There are so many different things you could do...

Okay! So I made two pretty big changes.
1) Instead of Spirit Guardians, you get Vampiric Touch. The level 7 ability functions more as the guardians would anyway, and Vampiric Touch gives a nice segue into projecting your wraith onto people.
2) Speaking of projecting your wraith onto people, thatís now what the level 11 ability does! I modeled it off of Hexbladeís Accursed Spectre. It incorporates favored enemies into an actual combat ability, means that taming really powerful creatures is possible but still immensely difficult, and allows you to army build if you want even more battlefield control.

Requilac
2017-12-04, 10:49 AM
Okay! So I made two pretty big changes.
1) Instead of Spirit Guardians, you get Vampiric Touch. The level 7 ability functions more as the guardians would anyway, and Vampiric Touch gives a nice segue into projecting your wraith onto people.
2) Speaking of projecting your wraith onto people, thatís now what the level 11 ability does! I modeled it off of Hexbladeís Accursed Spectre. It incorporates favored enemies into an actual combat ability, means that taming really powerful creatures is possible but still immensely difficult, and allows you to army build if you want even more battlefield control.

The domination feature looks fine to me, but I am kind of confused as to why you choose that. I do not know much about Shadow of war wraiths, but i donít quite see how they are related to such a feature. It does not seem really thematically suitable, but aside from that it looks balanced to me. Side question though, what bonus do creatures below CR 1 get to their saving throws, none or minimum of +1?

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-12-04, 10:54 AM
The domination feature looks fine to me, but I am kind of confused as to why you choose that. I do not know much about Shadow of war wraiths, but i donít quite see how they are related to such a feature. It does not seem really thematically suitable, but aside from that it looks balanced to me. Side question though, what bonus do creatures below CR 1 get to their saving throws, none or minimum of +1?

Basically, in game you can take over orcs minds to amass an army. I also have the spells Phantasmal Killer and Dominate Mind to show how you use the wraith slowly to manipulate the minds of creatures (they are naturally controlling according to the Monster Manual). Iíll add in that itís a minimum +1 bonus.

Requilac
2017-12-04, 03:01 PM
Basically, in game you can take over orcs minds to amass an army. I also have the spells Phantasmal Killer and Dominate Mind to show how you use the wraith slowly to manipulate the minds of creatures (they are naturally controlling according to the Monster Manual). Iíll add in that itís a minimum +1 bonus.

Fair enough, I suppose it is more thematically appropriate than i first thought. Saying that you could amasss an army with it though is a stretch. You can only use it once per long rest, and the creature gets to make a saving throw whenever you try to use it or at the end of every long rest. The odds are way against you if you actually plan on building an army. If you are incredibly lucky you may get at max seven low level creatures over the course of a week, but even then they could always do well on the saving throw and wake up to maul you. It is helpful for sure, but it is an unreliable and inefficient way to create a military.

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-12-04, 05:04 PM
Fair enough, I suppose it is more thematically appropriate than i first thought. Saying that you could amasss an army with it though is a stretch. You can only use it once per long rest, and the creature gets to make a saving throw whenever you try to use it or at the end of every long rest. The odds are way against you if you actually plan on building an army. If you are incredibly lucky you may get at max seven low level creatures over the course of a week, but even then they could always do well on the saving throw and wake up to maul you. It is helpful for sure, but it is an unreliable and inefficient way to create a military.

Iíll admit itís an exaggeration. But giving a player that same degree in f power as in Shadow of War would be super game breaking.

Requilac
2017-12-04, 05:11 PM
Iíll admit itís an exaggeration. But giving a player that same degree in f power as in Shadow of War would be super game breaking.

I never played the game, so i would not be able to say whether that is true or not, but that is completely understandable. Well anyhow, the sub-class seems passable to me. I think that the alignment restriction is a bad decision, but aside from that I have no other issues. Hope I have helped!

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-12-04, 06:26 PM
I never played the game, so i would not be able to say whether that is true or not, but that is completely understandable. Well anyhow, the sub-class seems passable to me. I think that the alignment restriction is a bad decision, but aside from that I have no other issues. Hope I have helped!

It did! I ultimately got rid of the restriction. If someone wants to add it in as a personal choice, they can, but I wonít try to mandate it.

AngryJesusMan
2017-12-15, 10:59 AM
The things that you have here wouldn't work in my game because we've been trying to control the various means by which characters can make permanent or semi-permanent pets.

I think Ethereal Counter might be better served by simply granting disadvantage. That way this doesn't stack with disadvantage and become a little too game breaking.

At any rate, seeing your submission made me realize that some of my players might enjoy something similar. If you'd like, feel free to comment and critique my own submission.

Ethereal Hunter

AgentMaineSIGMA
2017-12-15, 12:36 PM
The things that you have here wouldn't work in my game because we've been trying to control the various means by which characters can make permanent or semi-permanent pets.

I think Ethereal Counter might be better served by simply granting disadvantage. That way this doesn't stack with disadvantage and become a little too game breaking.

At any rate, seeing your submission made me realize that some of my players might enjoy something similar. If you'd like, feel free to comment and critique my own submission.

Ethereal Hunter

As always, the rules are subject to DM ruling, so DMs can buff, nerf, and alter how Domination works as needed.

I like the Wisdom mod instead because I actually view it as less powerful than advantage. At level 7, a player will generally have around 16-18 WIS, a -3 to -4 penalty on the attack. Most CR 7 creatures have a +7 to hit on attacks. Rangers will generally have 15-16 AC at level 7, meaning without Ethereal Counter, the need a 8-9 to hit you (roughly 62.5% chance of hitting). Disadvantage halves that chance (31.75%). Ethereal counter means they need 12-13 to hit you (roughly a 42.5% chance). When you first get Ethereal Counter, itís actually worse for you than disadvantage. If we jump to level 12, assume you have a Dexterity and Wisdom modifier of +5. So, your AC is 17, and they have a -5 to hit. CR 12 creatures seem to have roughly +8 to hit. So, to hit you, they need a roll of 14 to hit you (35%). Without it, theyíd need a 10 to hit (55%), half as likely with disadvantage (27.5%). Even as you scale up, Ethereal Counter doesnít give you as good a benefit as disadvantage. While it can admittedly stack with disadvantage, it only shields you against a single attack, and when creatures have multiattack and huge modifiers to attack, it requires strategy and even then isnít perfect. All that said and done, Iíd love to check out your class.