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vonkraush
2017-12-22, 12:40 PM
This is the first homebrew class I've ever made. I need to flesh out the description a bit more but I like the idea of a neutral/chaotic paladin similar to how conquest is an evil paladin. I am worried this class might be too powerful, but as paladins as a whole are very strong I'm unsure if it is that OP outside of the spell list. It is probably too strong (also maybe too one-note) but the idea is that a half-caster character focused on freedom is likely going to have a strong connection to the ethereal realm.

Let me know what you think and if you have any ideas on how I can improve this!

The Oath of Freedom:

The Oath of Freedom is a rarely held Oath, treated with suspicion by other Paladins. Those who swear this oath are less interested in upholding order or persecuting the wicked than they are with freeing men from bondage in all its forms. This puts them at odds with traditional evildoers like tyrants and slavers but is also a source of tension with kings and feudal nobles. Oath of freedom paladins have no respect for laws or traditions which they find oppressive and are known to spark jailbreaks and foment revolutions. Owing to this paladins which swear the Oath of Freedom are despised by most governments and frequently targeted for assassination, making them a rare find.
Although rarely evil, Oath of Freedom paladins lean chaotic rather than lawful. In keeping with their tenets they respect heterodox conceptions of freedom and may be any alignment.

Tenets:

Free the Shackled - No one deserves to be stripped of their freedom, be they common peasants or notorious thieves.
Uphold the Truth - The path to true freedom is not an easy one and requires an open mind and honest dialogue. Lies, misconceptions and other ideas which bind men must be destroyed before truly free relations can develop between them.
Eradicate Bad Faith - It is not enough that men are freed from the lies of others, they must also be freed from the lies they tell themselves. People are free to make their own choices and must acknowledge they have the final say in who they are.
Respect Others' Freedom - People must be allowed to live their lives as they choose even if I disagree with their decisions.



Channel Divinity:
Free from Bondage: As an action you may choose a locked door, manacles, a padlock or another object that contains a mundane means that prevents access.

A target that is held shut by a mundane lock or that is stuck or barred becomes unlocked, unstuck, or unbarred. If the object has multiple locks, only one of them is unlocked.

Free from Lies: You may use an action or reaction to grant you and allies within 30 feet a bonus to Insight checks and wisdom saving throws equal to your charisma modifier for one minute. Once you use this ability you can't activate it again until you finish a long rest.

As an action you may attempt to sense the presence of illusion magic within 60 feet of you. If you sense magic this way you may choose one effect within range and attempt to dispel it. Any spell of 3rd level or lower ends.For a spell of 4th level or higher, make an ability check using Charisma. The DC equals 10 + the spellís level. On a successful check, the spell ends.


Spells:
3: Longstrider, Sudden Awakening
5: Misty Step, Find Traps
9: Blink, Nondetection
13: Freedom of Movement, Stoneskin
17: Passwall, Awaken


Level 7: (Aura of Freedom) Your desire to free others burns so strongly that it inspires you and others. You and friendly creatures within your aura can't be restrained and can't be paralyzed.

Level 15: (Truth Seeker) You gain truesight out to a range of 15 feet.

Level 20: (Revolutionary Leader)
As an action you may become an avatar of Freedom. For one hour you gain the following benefits:

Your base speed increases by 10 feet.
You can't be knocked prone, you are unaffected by difficult terrain and your speed can't be reduced in any way.
As a bonus action you may teleport yourself or a willing ally to any unoccupied space up to 30 feet away from the targets current location which you can see.

Once you use this feature you can't activate it again until you finish a long rest.

Composer99
2017-12-22, 05:03 PM
The always-on true seeing is definitely too powerful.

If you look at sorcerers and warlocks, their spell slot special abilities cap at 5th level. The spell point variant from the DMG lets you cast 1 spell of 6th-level or higher per long rest IIRC. So a permanent 6th-level spell effect is IMO too much.

The anti-illusion is strong, possibly too strong, but is circumstantial enough that it's probably fine.

vonkraush
2017-12-22, 08:30 PM
The always-on true seeing is definitely too powerful.

If you look at sorcerers and warlocks, their spell slot special abilities cap at 5th level. The spell point variant from the DMG lets you cast 1 spell of 6th-level or higher per long rest IIRC. So a permanent 6th-level spell effect is IMO too much.

The anti-illusion is strong, possibly too strong, but is circumstantial enough that it's probably fine.

For some reason I thought it was a level 2 spell, so wow that is more unbalanced than I thought. I do like the idea behind the ability though, so I'm sad to see it go: could you recommend a decent replacement? I could have a once-per-day 6th level effect but the 15th-level ability tends to be a passive/constant benefit so I'm worried that would break format.

As for the anti-illusion: I was worried it may be a bit too strong even while limited. Should I make it more punishing by changing the save? Any recommendations?

hellgrammite
2017-12-22, 09:07 PM
It is an interesting thought for a Paladin. Freedom in D&D is usually tied with Chaotic alignments. That is because order and justice are often aligned. I would say at face value, you might be overreaching for a Paladin by conflicting Justice with Freedom.

But lets look at the class you built with some constructive criticism and suggestions. Lets see if we can cut the power in half, and make it somewhat balanced:

*Freedom from lies is way to powerful, if not gamebreaking in many situations. Anti-Illusion isn't exactly fitting with the theme here either (most oaths paladin's take would be anti-illusion likely.) I would make the channel divinity an aura of 30 feet, with you and your allies get a bonus to Insight checks and wisdom saving throws equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier.

*Free from Bondage needs modifiaction. Remove the arcane lock sentence. Stop trying to snuff out magical effects at lower levels, its too powerful. Instead make it a one time activation that ends opens a mundane lock or barred door, or have a creature make an immediate saving throw with advantage to save against the restrained or grabbed condition.

*Aura of freedom.
I would make this aura that creatures of our choice in your aura can have their movements not provoke opportunity attacks. (this is flavorful and decently powerful. Basically people close to you have the disengage action on constantly.)

(Truth Seeker) You have truesight out to 10 feet. This is powerful enough. Rogues at this level get blindsight.

(Revolutionary Leader) - Remove can't be knocked prone with can't be grabbed or restrained, and ignore difficult terrain. Add you can cast etherealness on yourself once a long rest without components.

vonkraush
2017-12-22, 09:23 PM
It is an interesting thought for a Paladin. Freedom in D&D is usually tied with Chaotic alignments. That is because order and justice are often aligned. I would say at face value, you might be overreaching for a Paladin by conflicting Justice with Freedom.

But lets look at the class you built with some constructive criticism and suggestions. Lets see if we can cut the power in half, and make it somewhat balanced:

*Freedom from lies is way to powerful, if not gamebreaking in many situations. Anti-Illusion isn't exactly fitting with the theme here either (most oaths paladin's take would be anti-illusion likely.) I would make the channel divinity an aura of 30 feet, with you and your allies get a bonus to Insight checks and wisdom saving throws equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier.

*Free from Bondage needs modifiaction. Remove the arcane lock sentence. Stop trying to snuff out magical effects at lower levels, its too powerful. Instead make it a one time activation that ends opens a mundane lock or barred door, or have a creature make an immediate saving throw with advantage to save against the restrained or grabbed condition.

*Aura of freedom.
I would make this aura that creatures of our choice in your aura can have their movements not provoke opportunity attacks.

(Truth Seeker) You have truesight out to 10 feet. This is powerful enough. Rogues at this level get blindsight.

(Revolutionary Leader) - Remove can't be knocked prone with can't be grabbed or restrained, and ignore difficult terrain. Add you can cast etherealness on yourself once a long rest without components.

I have to say: these are fantastic ideas!

Removing the 'arcane lock' element is a good call, I don't think it loses much design-wise by getting rid of that and in retrospect the ability to no-sell magic at an early level rechargeable on a short rest is overpowered.

I like the solution to freedom from lies a lot to be honest. I might even make it weaker by just making it my charisma modifier rather than +1, but it captures the spirit of the idea without being OP and still remaining broadly useful.

Is truth seeker still OP at 10 feet? If not I think its an excellent compromise and I'd be very happy with it.


As for justice and freedom: I don't think its that much of a stretch. I should have perhaps expanded on the idea of it in the blurb, but there is a very large body of ethical and philosophical work which posits a deontological rather than consequentialist conception of justice, and is largely concerned with freedom. I think the link, while a subversion of the traditional idea of a paladin, is well established, which is why I like the idea of this Oath.

hellgrammite
2017-12-22, 09:32 PM
For spells, dont over due it on the teleportion stuff:

-replace Blink with Dispel Magic
-replace Far Step with Awaken. Awaken fits more flavorfully, since your giving the concept of freedom to a beast, and you already have so many teleportation spells.

Remember Freedom Oath should have a more natural bent when in doubt.

vonkraush
2017-12-22, 09:36 PM
Awaken is a good choice, far step feel redundant so I'm not a fan but I couldn't think of a good replacement. Could you recommend an alternative level 4th spell also? Im not a fan of dimension door.

hellgrammite
2017-12-22, 09:38 PM
I have to say: these are fantastic ideas!


Is truth seeker still OP at 10 feet? If not I think its an excellent compromise and I'd be very happy with it.



I would argue the 20th level feature is a bit more limited as I did it, but you gain a more powerful than average at 15th level.

So while truesight at 15th is def. an above average ability, the balance is that you making the 20th level capstone just 'okay', if not highly situational. Oath of Conquest has arguably the best 20th level ability, but you might have the best 15th level ability.

hellgrammite
2017-12-22, 09:42 PM
Awaken is a good choice, far step feel redundant so I'm not a fan but I couldn't think of a good replacement. Could you recommend an alternative level 4th spell also? Im not a fan of dimension door.

I was going to recommend removing Door as well, but didnt want to eliminate too many transportation spells if you were attached LOL.

I would recommend Confusion for 4th level. The flavor is that your basically bringing disorder to order. You give people freedom, and the unenlightened don't know what to do with themselves.

vonkraush
2017-12-23, 12:31 AM
Here is a thought: what about switching up the 15th and 20th level abilities:
-At level 15 you become immune to difficult terrain and gain speed (no immunity to prone though)

-At level 20 you gain the full extent of the true sight spell as part of the avatar transformation. (immunity to prone is still gone)

That feels like a decent tradeoff while still keeping the abilities I feel really help define this subclass relative to other paladins. It would definitely be less OP than the original 'full truesight at level 15' variant while also boosting the power of the capstone. Would that be well balanced without being too weak?

As for immunity to opportunity attacks as a 7 level aura: its a cool idea but wouldn't it be more powerful than immunity to restraint/paralysis? the 7th level aura might need more balancing but immunity to paralysis doesn't feel that much better than immunity to charm as it is somewhat conditional, whereas complete avoidance of opportunity attacks at no cost seems absurdly strong and is always relevant.

Composer99
2017-12-23, 08:17 AM
The always-on true seeing is definitely too powerful.

If you look at sorcerers and warlocks, their spell slot special abilities cap at 5th level. The spell point variant from the DMG lets you cast 1 spell of 6th-level or higher per long rest IIRC. So a permanent 6th-level spell effect is IMO too much.

The anti-illusion is strong, possibly too strong, but is circumstantial enough that it's probably fine.


For some reason I thought it was a level 2 spell, so wow that is more unbalanced than I thought. I do like the idea behind the ability though, so I'm sad to see it go: could you recommend a decent replacement? I could have a once-per-day 6th level effect but the 15th-level ability tends to be a passive/constant benefit so I'm worried that would break format.

As for the anti-illusion: I was worried it may be a bit too strong even while limited. Should I make it more punishing by changing the save? Any recommendations?

Just wanted to chime in to apologise for not having any suggestions; normally I try to have something of that nature. (I was out of the house waiting for a family member's train to come in when I posted, so I didn't have time to think about possible changes.)

Fortunately, it looks like a few other forum members picked up the slack.

hellgrammite
2017-12-23, 03:25 PM
Here is a thought: what about switching up the 15th and 20th level abilities:
-At level 15 you become immune to difficult terrain and gain speed (no immunity to prone though)

-At level 20 you gain the full extent of the true sight spell as part of the avatar transformation. (immunity to prone is still gone)

That feels like a decent tradeoff while still keeping the abilities I feel really help define this subclass relative to other paladins. It would definitely be less OP than the original 'full truesight at level 15' variant while also boosting the power of the capstone. Would that be well balanced without being too weak?

As for immunity to opportunity attacks as a 7 level aura: its a cool idea but wouldn't it be more powerful than immunity to restraint/paralysis? the 7th level aura might need more balancing but immunity to paralysis doesn't feel that much better than immunity to charm as it is somewhat conditional, whereas complete avoidance of opportunity attacks at no cost seems absurdly strong and is always relevant.

Yes the level 7 is a bit more powerful, but again depending on your group it might be more 'okay' than anything else. It def. adds more flavor the abilities of the class than simply more avoiding being retrained. I recommended a channel divinity that ended the grab/restrain/locked conditions which I felt covered that aspect.