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Talamare
2017-12-27, 04:24 AM
Have you ever been a little unsure of when to give players +1 or +2 Gear?
Do you ever worry that you might be giving them too early? or perhaps even too late?

This is a simple guideline for DMs to have a rough idea of when they should grant this equipment.

Let's start with Rarity, despite the name of each tier of rarity. They merely are there to represent roughly what level they should be granted.
Level 1 should see Common and Uncommon Items, value of roughly 100g - 500g
Level 5 should see Rare Items, value of roughly 500g - 5,000g
Level 11 should see Very Rare Items, value of roughly 5,000g - 50,000g
Level 17 should see Legendary Items, value of over 50,000g or more than likely literally PRICELESS

Of course this is just a general guide line, you may award items before or after this.

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How Many Items do I give out?
Xanathar details information on how many items you're more or less expected to give out by each bracket. Remember that this is a guideline, not a rule. That means you can easily grant half as much or twice as much, follow the temperature of your group.

Across the 20 Levels of play, players will receive roughly 100 Magical Items. This means there is a rough assumption of 5 Magical Items per level. Tho this isn't distributed this way. The Distribution roughly follows
Level 1 - 10 Items
Level 5 - 40 Items
Level 11 - 30 Items
Level 17 - 20 Items

Some people may note that this is a pretty high value. This roughly means that there is an expectancy of PCs to receive roughly 20 Items per player. However you must remember that a majority of these items aren't intended to be upgrades. The rough amount of expected upgrades is only 20 Items. So for example, a level 7 party might have already found roughly 30 Magical Items, but only about ~6 of those were significant. Meaning the party would likely end up with a vast amount of items that are basically Vendor Trash.

For DM's wishing to play with significantly less magical items, 20-25 Magical Items across the PCs Career is a decent expectation.
Aka, Dividing the previous table by 4-5
Level 1 - 2-3 Items
Level 5 - 8-10 Items
Level 11 - 6-8 Items
Level 17 - 4-5 Items


Non Magical Magical Items?!?
An extremely common Variant of Magical Items is to treat the "+#" (Plus Values) as Quality instead of sign of Magic. So a +2 Sword would not be a Magic Sword, but would still grant the +2 Attack and +2 Damage. Common Magical Weapons would then be introduced as a keyword such as "Enchanted".

There are purposes for this Variant. Blacksmiths are able to make Quality equipment without it being Magical. Monsters and Ability that grant Resistance to non-magical damage would still work. Spells that make items Magical would still be relevant. --- Remember tho, there are some abilities that allow you to empower 'non magical' weapons with bonuses. To continue the balance, those abilities would not work on high quality items.

I also recommend to treat the Magical Keyword as a step of Quality or perhaps even 2 steps of Quality. Meaning...
A +3 Hammer and a +2 Enchanted Hammer, would be seen as equivalent rarity
or if 2 steps, A +3 Axe and a +1 Enchanted Axe, would be seen as equivalent rarity


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Next let's take a look at Weapons!
Levels 0-4
Let's start with the most common Magic Item of all... Magical Ammo for Bows, Slings, and Crossbows.
These are shockingly common items, but remember that once they hit a target ONCE the magic is used up. (If you miss, feel free to recollect your Magical Arrow!)
At level 1-4 you're expected to find a few Magical Arrows of all quality.
Even +3 Magical Ammo have a chance to appear at this stage of the game! So, if the Archer in the group is struggling. Letting him find a few Magical Arrows should be a nice and reasonable boon.

Other +1 Weapons also exist in this Tier. So don't be afraid of granting those out, especially if the players just fought a particularly strong enemy. The chance of finding one on the Random Table is decently high. So it's more or less expected to find a few +1 Weapons.

The Random Table also presents a EXTREMELY LOW chance of finding a +2 Weapon. (Literally under half of one percent chance), so you're probably better off avoiding it.

Levels 5-10
The players continue with a fairly high chance of finding +1 Weapons at this Tier. So don't afraid to grant enough of them over time until every player is equipped with one.
It is likely even that the players might end up with multiple +1 Weapons, or even have some extra to sell.
Remember that buying a +1 Weapon is expected to cost around 100-500g, so selling it would only be a fraction of that value.

At this Tier +2 Weapons should start rarely popping up, and it's a real treasure to get one.
The chance is of acquiring one is decent, but it should still be a slow progression for each player to have one.

Again there is a extremely minuscule chance of finding a +3 Weapon at this Tier.

Levels 11-16
Indeed this is roughly the expected level for you to see and grant +3 Weapons for your players. Make sure to make it a bit of a challenge since they might not get any upgrades beyond this.
In this tier +2 Weapons become fairly common place, and +1 Weapons become surprisingly rare.

The Dungeon Master Guide also lists a few incredibly powerful named Legendary Weapons. The chance of getting a Legendary Item at this Tier is small, but still reasonable... but the chance of finding a Legendary Weapon specifically is very very low.

Level 17+
+3 Weapons are still not super common in this bracket, so it's not the worst thing if a few players are still seeking theirs out.
Legendary Weapons have a bit of a higher chance to be found, but they are still... LEGENDARY WEAPONS! Make it a challenge!

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Next we are going to focus on Defenses. Let's start with Shields.
Shields basically follow the exact same progression as Weapons do.
They have inherently lower chance to appear than Weapons do, however it's likely only some of the players would even want a +1 Shield.
While most of the players would want a +1 Weapon.

Overall, don't be shy about granting out Shields. Due to the Bounded AC system, Shields are an INSANELY IMPORTANT aspect to the survivability of Tanks.
I cannot stress this part enough, If one of your players is playing an AC based Tank and is struggling to survive... Throw the man a shiny new Magic Shield.

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Finally we have Armors, now before we go into the levels you should grant the Magical ones... We first need to understand the different Armor Classes.
Class 1 Armor is Full Plate and Half Plate
Class 2 Armor is Splint Mail, Breast Plate, and Studded Leather
Class 3 Armor is Chain Mail, Chain Shirt, Scale Mail, and Leather Armor

Now what is distinct about these Classes is the Maximum amount Armor they can grant (Medium Armors assume you have the Feat for +3 Dex)
Class 1 Armor grants 18 AC
Class 2 Armor grants 17 AC
Class 3 Armor grants 16 AC

(Scale Mail technically Grants 17 AC, but gives you a penalty to Stealth -shrugs-)

Why does this matter?
Because the Rarity of +1, +2, +3 Armors depends on the Class.
You get common access to +1 Full Plate, +2 Splint Mail, and +3 Chain Mail at the exact same time.
This is part of 5e Bound Accuracy design.
Before listing the levels as well, it's important to understand that Magical Armors in general are significantly rarer than Weapons.
So even if they are in the same Tier, you're still much more likely to find Weapons than Armors.

Levels 0-4
The only +1 Armors you should be seeing are Class 3 Armors. These items are generally considered trash to begin with. Since, why pay 100-500g for a +1 Leather Armor when you can pay 45g for a standard Studded Leather Armor!
Players will generally start with their representative Class 3 Armor, and they should work towards getting an effective Class 2 Armor. Either thru a +1 Class 3 Armor, or again just a Class 2 Armor.
Essentially the expected amount of AC from Armor should start at 16, and progress to 17 at this Tier.

Remember that players are NOT expected to be able to afford Full Plate and Half Plate at this level!
If you have a Level 2 Paladin, you're struggling to kill because he is already wearing Full Plate + Shield+1 + Defense + Shield of the Faithful... That's as much your fault as it is his...

Levels 5-10
Characters should start moving towards getting an effective Class 1 Armor at this point. Which means eventually getting Full Plate and Half Plate.
As well as finding +1 Class 2 Armors,
and +2 Class 3 Armors.
Basically the expected amount of AC from Armor you should find is about 18 AC

Levels 11-16
We continue our rarity trend moving up a step. Expect +1 Class 1 Armor. Aka, +1 Full Plate for example.
As well as +2 Class 2 Armors,
and +3 Class 3 Armors.
The common find for Armors at this point should place you at about 19 AC.
However I should make it clear that this is still a pretty rare find.

Getting higher than the 19 AC wall is actually fairly difficult.
Both the effective AC 20 and AC 21 Armors exist at this tier, however the chance of finding them are insanely rare.
Finding an AC 20 Armor is about as TWICE difficult as Finding a LEGENDARY WEAPON
That's right, You're likely to find 2 Legendary Weapons than find a +2 Full Plate!

and AC 21 Armor? Aka... The +3 FULL PLATE!!!
THE GOD ARMOR
THE SAVIOUR OF WORLDS!!!
You're likely to find... 18... once more... 18... Last time... 18!!! Legendary Weapons before finding this piece.
The +3 Full Plate is by far the rarest item in the game. Don't be afraid to never grant one, and if you do... Make it forged by a LITERAL GOD.
Hell... It's so rare that it isn't even Forged by a God to give away... You had to literally take the Forge God's BEST Armor Piece.

Levels 17+
The previous trends essentially continue. Should slowly have everyone equipped with effective AC 19 Armors.
They become slightly more common compared to the previous tier, but are still not spectacularly often.

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What about the Ring of Protection?!
Believe it or not, there is also the Cloak of Protection! It also grants +1 AC

The key difference is that a Player will generally only be allowed to equip 1 Cloak, but might be able to equip as many rings as he has Fingers (and attunement allows)
Due to this...
Cloak of Protection is a decently common item for Levels 1-4
While Ring of Protection won't generally start appearing until Levels 5-10

Cloak and Ring of Protection will stack with each other, but multiple Rings of Protection will never stack.

Ioun Stone of Protection is also Levels 5-10
If you don't know what is an Ioun Stone, just think of it as a Magical Ring that floats around your head. (It's actually a Rock tho, not a Ring)

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A quick note to DMs playing a Low Magic Campaign and not wanting to grant a ton of Magical Items.
Due to how monsters scale in the Monster Manual, a +1/+2/+3 Weapon is never inherently needed.
Hitting the hardest of monsters might happen slightly less often, but chance of success is always fairly high.

On the other hand Monsters Attack bonus EXPLODES upwards and at Higher CR an AC Tank will struggle to avoid getting hit.
I recommend at least awarding +1 and +2 Shields. Even if it happens later than normal and are extremely rare.
+2 Shields might even be LEGENDARY in your campaign, but your AC Tanks will Thank you!


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Short Version
Levels 0
Base Weapons
AC 16 Armor

Levels 1-4
+1 Weapon
+1 Shield
Cloak of Protection
AC 17 Armor

Levels 5-10
+2 Weapon
+2 Shield
Ring of Protection or Ioun Stone of Protection
AC 18 Armor

Levels 11-16
+3 Weapon
+3 Shield
AC 19 Armor

Levels 17+
Legendary Weapons
AC 20 Armor

Optional
AC 21 Armor (+3 Full Plate or +3 Half Plate)

If you don't know what I mean by AC ## Armor, just scroll up a little.

Unoriginal
2017-12-27, 06:26 AM
Or you could also put neat items that aren't +X to hit or +X to AC in your adventure, and do what is thematically appropriate rather than a "at this level give them this".

Talamare
2017-12-27, 06:31 AM
Or you could also put neat items that aren't +X to hit or +X to AC in your adventure, and do what is thematically appropriate rather than a "at this level give them this".

You can do whatever you want

This is just an basic little guideline for people who are seeking to put basic +X to hit and +X to AC items in their adventure, but aren't sure when to do it.

Spore
2017-12-27, 07:21 AM
Remember that buying a +1 Weapon is expected to cost around 100-500g, so selling it would only be a fraction of that value.

A +1 weapon is supposed to be crafted at 500 GP as per DMG. I'd say - with 500 GP base price - you would have (fair) shop prices ranging from 600-750, and sell prices from 350-400. Reason being if you are not in one of the capital cities of your setting, it is less likely for the vendor to have competition.

Technically you saying "a fraction of" is right, it is just that mostly people interpret "fraction" as 10 or 20%. And while that is also possible, I feel that these would be more untrustworthy vendors (people that do not ask where the weapon came from or who you murdererd for it).

Unoriginal
2017-12-27, 07:27 AM
Note that a Common weapon enchanted to glow in the dark is enough to bypass resistance/immunity.

Skyblaze
2017-12-27, 08:20 AM
Honest question, from a game design perspective, why is +2 and +3 full plate so rare?

Pex
2017-12-27, 08:57 AM
Honest question, from a game design perspective, why is +2 and +3 full plate so rare?

Because of Bounded Accuracy. 5E is purposely designed not to have attack bonuses and AC too high such that even a +1 to attack or AC is a significant value. A +2 or +3 is that powerful in 5E to have it be for high level play.

Unoriginal
2017-12-27, 09:30 AM
And from a world design POV, Plate Armor is very expensive by itself. Most non-rare magic items are cheaper. So, to be able to afford both the plate and the enchanting...well, you needs loads of money.

intermedial
2017-12-27, 12:47 PM
Expanding this -- the tables and breakdown in XGTE indicate that a single Player should find the following number of major/ permanent magic items:

2 uncommon (the first around level 3, the second by around level 11)
1 rare (sometime after level 8)
1 very rare (sometime after level 11)
1 legendary items (sometime after level 16)

This is based on an even distribution of the 20 Major magic items, as indicated by the Awarding Magic Items chapter of XGTE.

I suspect that this number is much, much lower than what the typical player expects, and what most DMs award. If we expect the typical level 1 to 20 campaign to take somewhere around 60 game sessions to complete, this means the players find a magic item about as often as they gain a level.

Consumable items are also shockingly restricted. 80 items found in total, means each PC finds 1 consumable item per character level. That's not a lot of healing potions to go around.

This is possibly why so many DMs have problems with encounter balance, as throwing down too many potions, scrolls, and +X items in a bounded accuracy system is really going to skew away from the default "the players have no magic items" assumptions that the CR system is built upon. If you approach 5e with the 3.5e/ 4e mentality of magic item bonanza, you are very quickly going to drive your players over the upper edge of character power.

furby076
2018-01-07, 12:31 AM
. If you approach 5e with the 3.5e/ 4e mentality of magic item bonanza, you are very quickly going to drive your players over the upper edge of character power.
True, and while i wouldnt let my table approach 3x/pf magic standards, I'd solve for "too many" magic items by upping the encounters, and periodically taking or destroying magic items; just like in other editions.

Heck, in one 10 year campaign i was in, we died at an ancient dragons lair "xagygyrag". Full tpk. Party got true res (the world could not just let us die). But we had nothing but some +1 gear donated to us. That dragon had a very nice hoard after us :) It happened another time, but the party went back and recovered most of the items. A third time my characters ancestral sword was destroyed. He thought it was a holy avenger, but alas, it was inhabited by an evil demon giving my character paladin powers. When the sword broke...poof, level 14 ex paladin... ahh, good times

Gardakan
2018-01-07, 01:31 AM
These are just guidelines.

Give too much magic items to your players and you'll find yourself struggling with monsters not keeping up with them.

Same goes for not giving enough of them.

Let them craft them, buy them, quest for them, but never restrain the magic items because you don't want to toy with the game.

Vaz
2018-01-07, 05:15 AM
At the same time, throwing a 1st level Paladin a Hly Avenger, +3 Mithral Full Plate, and a +3 Animated Shield isn't OP if evedy member of the party is equipped to a similar standard.

It just means that they can breeze enounters at their level, but fight more difficult foes earlier. +Stat numbers never broke a game.

mephnick
2018-01-07, 05:23 PM
I don't think magic weapons should be handed out until at least level 8+. Let physical resistances on monsters actually matter for a bit before nullifying them by showering the party in magic weapons. My players didn't all have magic weapons until level 10 and as a result actually had to strategize when dealing with monsters with resistances. Otherwise what's the point of them even existing? Magic weapons become meaningless if you just hand them out to players for no reason other than "oh hey, you're level 5 now." *yawn* I don't even put them on my loot tables until Tier 2 and it's a very low chance. They can be bought for a ton of money which they probably can't afford until level 10 or so.

UrielAwakened
2018-01-07, 05:57 PM
We made sure every PC had a +1 weapon by level 7 or 8 and awarded them intermittently from level 1 onward.

Probably keep upgrading them to +2s through level 14 or so and then +3s after that.

Armor however we haven't really given out much of yet, largely because the basic 5e magical armor is all boring af and all of the different categories of light, medium, and heavy armor are both super-redundant once you bring +1/2/3 magic armors into the mix, and worse yet, make magic armor of anything but the highest-quality of material basically pointless.

Like I really wanted to give out homemade +1 Yeti skin pelts last adventure, and I wanted them to be light armor. But I couldn't because apparently hides are the worst quality medium armor not the best quality light armor.

So I handed out +1 Yeti Studded Leather and felt really dumb, because the alternative was, "Here is this +1 Yeti Armor that by the way is worse than just wearing Scale Male."

God I miss the 4e armor system.

Tanarii
2018-01-07, 06:07 PM
I don't think magic weapons should be handed out until at least level 8+. Let physical resistances on monsters actually matter for a bit before nullifying them by showering the party in magic weapons. My players didn't all have magic weapons until level 10 and as a result actually had to strategize when dealing with monsters with resistances. Otherwise what's the point of them even existing? Magic weapons become meaningless if you just hand them out to players for no reason other than "oh hey, you're level 5 now." *yawn* I don't even put them on my loot tables until Tier 2 and it's a very low chance. They can be bought for a ton of money which they probably can't afford until level 10 or so.
Random Hoard generation with a homebrewed random weapon type is a fun way to handle it. Or just stick to weapons that usually only casters might use.

It's always fun to see the Barbarian switch up to dual wielding light hammers for an occasional fight..

Mjolnirbear
2018-01-07, 08:47 PM
We made sure every PC had a +1 weapon by level 7 or 8 and awarded them intermittently from level 1 onward.

Probably keep upgrading them to +2s through level 14 or so and then +3s after that.

Armor however we haven't really given out much of yet, largely because the basic 5e magical armor is all boring af and all of the different categories of light, medium, and heavy armor are both super-redundant once you bring +1/2/3 magic armors into the mix, and worse yet, make magic armor of anything but the highest-quality of material basically pointless.

Like I really wanted to give out homemade +1 Yeti skin pelts last adventure, and I wanted them to be light armor. But I couldn't because apparently hides are the worst quality medium armor not the best quality light armor.

So I handed out +1 Yeti Studded Leather and felt really dumb, because the alternative was, "Here is this +1 Yeti Armor that by the way is worse than just wearing Scale Male."

God I miss the 4e armor system.

I had always understood that Light Armor was simply well-worked, flexible leather, like a leather jacket; while hide was thick-cured leather, typically tied on by a barbarian who sweats in it all day until it's stiff. ;)

Basically hide is thicker, tougher leather. I see no reason why Yeti skin can't be either light armor or medium armor.

Also:


"Here is this +1 Yeti Armor that by the way is worse than just wearing Scale Male."

Scale Male sounds like a teenage male dragon trying to use cheesy pickup lines. "Hey, baby, I've got some scale male for you, wanna come polish it?"

Talamare
2018-01-07, 08:50 PM
I don't think magic weapons should be handed out until at least level 8+. Let physical resistances on monsters actually matter for a bit before nullifying them by showering the party in magic weapons. My players didn't all have magic weapons until level 10 and as a result actually had to strategize when dealing with monsters with resistances. Otherwise what's the point of them even existing? Magic weapons become meaningless if you just hand them out to players for no reason other than "oh hey, you're level 5 now." *yawn* I don't even put them on my loot tables until Tier 2 and it's a very low chance. They can be bought for a ton of money which they probably can't afford until level 10 or so.

First of all, nothing is intended to be "Oh you leveled up here is a magic item". No one said that nor implied it. Everything is meant to be earned for whatever reason. The point is just when DMs should more or less start implementing these items into their game. Just giving them a 'Heads up' that +2 Items happen here or +3 happen there.

Also, there are a great ways to fix the 'Monster with Resistance' "problem" you present is to not consider Plus Equipment to be Magical.
Instead see it as 'Quality'. As well as introduce the term 'Enchanted' which merely signifies that it is considered Magic for the purpose of overcoming resistances (as well as appears on detect magic, etc)

So a +2 Sword would be perhaps of Masterwork quality, but wouldn't be Magical.
While you may also find a +1 Enchanted Sword. That would be Well Crafted and Magical.


We made sure every PC had a +1 weapon by level 7 or 8 and awarded them intermittently from level 1 onward.

Probably keep upgrading them to +2s through level 14 or so and then +3s after that.

Armor however we haven't really given out much of yet, largely because the basic 5e magical armor is all boring af and all of the different categories of light, medium, and heavy armor are both super-redundant once you bring +1/2/3 magic armors into the mix, and worse yet, make magic armor of anything but the highest-quality of material basically pointless.

Like I really wanted to give out homemade +1 Yeti skin pelts last adventure, and I wanted them to be light armor. But I couldn't because apparently hides are the worst quality medium armor not the best quality light armor.

So I handed out +1 Yeti Studded Leather and felt really dumb, because the alternative was, "Here is this +1 Yeti Armor that by the way is worse than just wearing Scale Male."

God I miss the 4e armor system.

4e did have a pretty cool equipment system. Tho it did create a slight problem in that they had WAY too much selection. Not to mention only a few great options among that selection. Moving on tho...

I think you took the Armor Section of the PHB too firmly. Instead consider that table to represent the "Commonly Sold at the Market" options.

If you want to make a Yeti Armor that is Light Armor, Grants 14 AC (+Max 1 Dex) and Cold Resistance. Power to you man!
It's your Campaign, you're free to add whatever cool item suits it.

Vaz
2018-01-07, 09:43 PM
I don't think magic weapons should be handed out until at least level 8+. Let physical resistances on monsters actually matter for a bit before nullifying them by showering the party in magic weapons. My players didn't all have magic weapons until level 10 and as a result actually had to strategize when dealing with monsters with resistances. Otherwise what's the point of them even existing? Magic weapons become meaningless if you just hand them out to players for no reason other than "oh hey, you're level 5 now." *yawn* I don't even put them on my loot tables until Tier 2 and it's a very low chance. They can be bought for a ton of money which they probably can't afford until level 10 or so.

Magic/Mundane resistance is a nonsense, unfun concept, as much as employing a fire resistant or immune monster is against a primary user.

It's bad mechanics.

Spore
2018-01-08, 06:16 AM
So I handed out +1 Yeti Studded Leather and felt really dumb, because the alternative was, "Here is this +1 Yeti Armor that by the way is worse than just wearing Scale Male."

If your yeti armor doesn't grant resistance to cold damage and immunity to harsh cold climates AND your next encounter is something with ice attacks you are the only one to blame.

I like to call this one the "Legend of Zelda Item Divination" because you always find the items most suitable for the next challenge right before said challenge.

mephnick
2018-01-08, 12:34 PM
Also, there are a great ways to fix the 'Monster with Resistance' "problem" you present is to not consider Plus Equipment to be Magical.
Instead see it as 'Quality'. As well as introduce the term 'Enchanted' which merely signifies that it is considered Magic for the purpose of overcoming resistances (as well as appears on detect magic, etc)


Actually that's exactly what I do. NPC's can upgrade or craft +1 Masterwork weapons that are not magical or they can upgrade or craft +0 Magical weapons with an effect using some kind of special ingredient. These are also available in treasure hordes of course.

I didn't mean to shoot down your post, I just see a lot of threads various places (reddit) acting like if the party isn't loaded with magic weapons at level 5 you're being a cheap killer DM.

Talamare
2018-01-08, 01:35 PM
Actually that's exactly what I do. NPC's can upgrade or craft +1 Masterwork weapons that are not magical or they can upgrade or craft +0 Magical weapons with an effect using some kind of special ingredient. These are also available in treasure hordes of course.

I didn't mean to shoot down your post, I just see a lot of threads various places (reddit) acting like if the party isn't loaded with magic weapons at level 5 you're being a cheap killer DM.

Always support helpful debates <3

I also added 2 small sections on how many items per level and detailing the Non Magical Magic Items.