Armour Check penalties

[RAGE KING!]

I was making a rogue for my friends campaign, and its now done, but i still have a -1 armour check penalty. I have a mithril breastplate. And now i dont know how to get rid of the penalty. It has -1 check penalty from masterwork, and being magical grants it -1 (since a magical weapon is considered of masterwok quality) and being mithril grants it -2 (-1 mithril and -1 since a mithril weapon is considered of masterwok quality).

so im stuck with a check penalty, which is really bugging me. I already dont have optimal hide and move silently, and now i have a check penalty!

how do i get rid of it?

[Fax Celestis]

Feycraft template from DMG-II will do you just fine.

[Jasdoif]

You could also save yourself some money and go with a mithral chain shirt instead of a mithral breastplate.

[RAGE KING!]

I like the breastplate idea.

The feycraft template looks really nice. But it doesn't actually say it reduces armour check penalty.

[Pironious]

I like the breastplate idea.

Then enjoy your armour check penalty.

My rogues typically only wear masterwork studded leather for a while, before upgrading to no armour (or bracers of armour). A natural dex score of 24 (yes, pre-gloves) makes armour inhibiting.

[Harold]

I think your only options are to get different armour, or deal with it. I would just deal with it. besides its only one.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think there was a magical ability for armor that reduced its armor check penalty in some book, but I don't remember off the top of my head and I don't have access to my books right now.

[Fax Celestis]

Thistledown Padding, RotW?

[kamikasei]

Thistledown Padding, RotW?

I thought that increased ACP in order to decrease ASF?

And I second the confusion over where Feycraft says it reduces ACP. Plz halp!

[MeklorIlavator]

The nimbleness enchantment reduces it, and also increases max dex by 1.

Also, a brestplate has a natural ACP of -4, and mithral reduces it by 3, and then you also add in the masterwork to give it a net ACP of -0, so you should be fine. Unless I've been doing the penalties wrong this whole time.

[Fax Celestis]

I thought that increased ACP in order to decrease ASF?

And I second the confusion over where Feycraft says it reduces ACP. Plz halp!

No, I was thinking of the wrong thing. One of those templates, IIRC, does reduce, but for the life of me I cannot remember which, and I cannot find my DMG-II.

[kamikasei]

Also, a brestplate has a natural ACP of -4, and mithral reduces it by 3, and then you also add in the masterwork to give it a net ACP of -0, so you should be fine. Unless I've been doing the penalties wrong this whole time.

I'm pretty sure that the masterwork bonuses are subsumed by the mithral bonuses, since mithral items are automatically masterwork (and since the pricing for a mithral whatever is not the price of the base item + masterwork cost + mithral cost...).


No, I was thinking of the wrong thing. One of those templates, IIRC, does reduce, but for the life of me I cannot remember which, and I cannot find my DMG-II.

Ah okay. I think you'd pointed to Feycraft in a similar thread a good while back, see, and it had confused me then too.

[Gralamin]

No, I was thinking of the wrong thing. One of those templates, IIRC, does reduce, but for the life of me I cannot remember which, and I cannot find my DMG-II.

Hellforged does, to a minimum of -1, No other template does.

Edit: Hellforged reads "Armor check penalty imposed..improves by 1 (minimum -1), Does that mean it increases it?


I'm pretty sure that the masterwork bonuses are subsumed by the mithral bonuses, since mithral items are automatically masterwork (and since the pricing for a mithral whatever is not the price of the base item + masterwork cost + mithral cost...).



Ah okay. I think you'd pointed to Feycraft in a similar thread a good while back, see, and it had confused me then too.

I believe Kamikasei is correct.

[tainsouvra]

It has -1 check penalty from masterwork, and being magical grants it -1 (since a magical weapon is considered of masterwok quality) and being mithril grants it -2 (-1 mithril and -1 since a mithril weapon is considered of masterwok quality). That's so convoluted...look at it this way:

You start with a Breastplate, which is a check penalty of 4.
You reduce it by three for being Mithral, making it a 1.
It's already masterwork, and already made of a special substance, so all you're really left with are treatment type things (there's probably a splatbook with a special oil or something, but nothing core).


I already dont have optimal hide and move silently, and now i have a check penalty!

how do i get rid of it? Depending on your item budget...don't bother getting rid of it. If you're worried about your checks for Hide and Move Silently, get armor with the Shadow and Silent Moves enchantments added.


Also, a brestplate has a natural ACP of -4, and mithral reduces it by 3, and then you also add in the masterwork to give it a net ACP of -0, so you should be fine. Unless I've been doing the penalties wrong this whole time. You've been doing the penalties wrong this whole time. The masterwork bonus is already included in the mithral enchantment, you can verify that by looking at the example mithral armors. For example, the Mithral Full Plate of Speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#mithralFullPlateofSpeed) has a check penalty of 3...that's the 6 for full plate, minus the three for mithral, and no additional masterwork bonus.

[Gralamin]

Similarly, Magic Item compendium page 5 shows mithral armor costs, and statistics.

Edit:
AHA! Magic Item Compendium, page 13,
Nimbleness +1 bonus
+1 max Dexterity, Armor check penalty reduced by 2 (Min of 0, I would assume)

[RAGE KING!]

k ill use that then...thanks.

[Roog]

You could also save yourself some money and go with a mithral chain shirt instead of a mithral breastplate.

I like the breastplate idea.

Look at the picture of a "Breastplate" in the PHB - its a full suit of armour. When my group ran into the same situation you are in, we decided to create the Light Breastplate - i.e. a breastplate (and possibly helmet) without all the extra armour shown in the PHB picture. We gave the Light Breastplate the same stats as the Chain Shirt.

[kpenguin]

My rogues typically only wear masterwork studded leather for a while, before upgrading to no armour (or bracers of armour). A natural dex score of 24 (yes, pre-gloves) makes armour inhibiting.

Wait... how did you get a natural dex score of 24? You would need a to get an 18 and have a +6 racial modifier to Dex. Do you ususally play githerzai?

[Inane-Fedaykin]

Since he said he starts with studded leather armor I imagine that includes some ability increases from leveling. For the rest of it... Some point buy systems allow you to buy stats over 18.

[kpenguin]

Alright then, it's possible. You just need to play an elf, get an 18, and be at least level 16.

[Inane-Fedaykin]

You're forgetting about tomes.

[Pironious]

Wait... how did you get a natural dex score of 24? You would need a to get an 18 and have a +6 racial modifier to Dex. Do you ususally play githerzai?

+2 racial, +2 from a paragon class, +2 from level ups?

[Xaros]

Would it work to make mithral full plate and then take Heavy Armor Optimization and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization? If so, the ACP would be zero.

[Pironious]

Would it work to make mithral full plate and then take Heavy Armor Optimization and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization? If so, the ACP would be zero.

Mithril Full Plate is medium armour, and based on the desire for light armour, I think they're limited to it.

[kpenguin]

Mithril Full Plate is medium armour, and based on the desire for light armour, I think they're limited to it.

Armor proficiency only matters for two reasons: arcane spell failure and armor check penalty. If both are eliminated, as they are in this case, then you can ignore whether you are proficient or not.

[Inane-Fedaykin]

I so don't feel like pulling out races of stone. Don't the feats require proficiency with the armor?

[Xaros]

I so don't feel like pulling out races of stone. Don't the feats require proficiency with the armor?

They do. Heavy Armor Optimization also requires BAB +4 and Greater needs +8. And looking back...the OP wants to make a rogue. I see the problem.

I guess it's either go with a mithral shirt or take some levels of fighter.

[Jasdoif]

Looking over some more options, you could take Armor Focus (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/ruIuiKxNerFBCOi5fK8.html) from this site to get rid of the last point of ACP on the mithral breastplate, if you're allowed to take the feat.

You'd save 3,100gp (and a feat) by going with a mithral chain shirt instead, however.

[RAGE KING!]

my char has two levels of fighter, but i dont want to wear medium armour because i would lose evasion.

[Reinboom]

my char has two levels of fighter, but i dont want to wear medium armour because i would lose evasion.

Then why do you want to wear a breastplate?

Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor.

[Inane-Fedaykin]

A mithral breastplate is considered light armor.

[Xaros]

Wow. I've totally forgotten the rogue class abilities, haven't I? Or maybe it's just because none of my characters have ever worn medium or heavy armor before. Eh.

The mithral breastplate would work for Evasion because it counts as light armor.

[Reinboom]

A mithral breastplate is considered light armor.

aha, this whole time I was thinking full plate for some reason. :smalleek:

[Draz74]

Eventually you can get Celestial Armor. It gives the same protection as a breastplate, and has no ACP. And lets you fly. :smallcool:

[Generic PC]

wee... This is my campaign BTW. But Rage King, Nimbleness would be fine.