Dual Wielder Feat idea (i know i know there's a million of these)

[MadBear]

So there's more then a few reasons why twf isn't quite as good as other fighting styles. The biggest thing though, is that the -5/+10 feats are so good, and they offer an additional rider effect that is really powerful (GWM feat allows you to get that bonus attack pretty often, and Sharpshooter basically allows free shooting into melee with no penalty).

The often sought after fix, I see most often is too nerf, or remove those feats.

However, what if we just buffed DW a bit, to bring it's power online with the others:

Dual Wielder:
You master fighting with two weapons, gaining the following benefits:

You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a separate melee weapon in each hand.
You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one handed melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light.
You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
New: As a reaction, you can forgo your AC bonus (the +1 AC) to make an immediate melee attack against any creature who has attacked you using your off-hand weapon


At first blush, this might seem like to powerful an ability to give to rogues, but in practice I don't think it will be. First, it takes your reaction, meaning they can't use their uncanny dodge to reduce damage. Second, you have to be attacked in order to get this benefit, so it'll work better on a class that wants to tank anyway.

It also has the added benefit that basically it puts creatures in a tough spot. They can move away from you to attack your ally's and you get to make a reaction attack. Or they attack you, and you'll swing at them anyway.

[BigONotation]

I've done this over and over again as well. The most balanced fixes I've seen is when you get Extra Attack (usually 5th level), your offhand becomes part of your Attack action.

Dead simple, absolutely increases Dual Wielder DPS in many situations and for many characters and requires serious commitment to a martial character.

If you only want to homebrew the feat, just remove the +1 AC, and make it so opportunity attacks do the damage of both weapons. So instead of the standard 1d8 + mod, they'd do 2d8 + mod.

[Eric Diaz]

Well, lots of people agree TWF must be fixed.

You fix is a decent one, but it has some issues.

It is certainly good for rogues - probably too good - but not that great for fighters with multiple attacks, which is one of the main issues with TWF.

Here is a long post about the subject:

http://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com.br/2018/01/d-5e-fighting-styles-two-weapon-fighting.html

And my feat, FWIW - I did something similar with the AC bonus.

Two Weapon Master
You master fighting with two weapons, gaining the following benefits:
* While you are wielding a separate melee weapon in each hand, you gain +1 to hit with both weapons.
* You can use two-weapon fighting even when one of the one handed melee weapons you are wielding isn't light.
* As a bonus action on your turn, you can can take a defensive stance an gain +1 to AC until the beginning of your net turn.
* If roll a natural 2 for an weapon attack when wielding two weapons, you can choose to ignore this attack and roll again to attack with the other weapon. You must use the second roll.

[strangebloke]

People always wanna make this so complicated.

Martial proficiency, no feats or fighting styles
Twf 1st: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 = 10
Gwf 1st: 2d6 + 3 = 10
S&b 1st: 1d8 + 3 = 7.5

So your bonus action makes you a little more consistent and... That's it. Yay. Not really broken since no one has a use for that bonus action yet anyway.

Twf 5th: (1d6 + 4)*2 + 1d6 = 18.5
Gwf 5th: (2d6 + 4)*2 = 22
S&b 5th: (1d8 + 4)*2 = 17

.. Now I'm spending a bonus action to barely stay ahead of the guy who only has one weapon. Disappointing.

Martial proficiency, fighting styles, no feats
Twf 1st: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3= 14
Gwf 1st: 2d6 + 3 + 1.2= 11.2
S&b 1st: 1d8 + 3 + 2= 9.5

Now we're talking! Fifty percent more than the s&b. Good use of a bonus action. Gwf is depressingly anemic here, but this is what you'd expect. If you can't use your bonus action to attack, you fall behind.

Twf 5th: (1d6 + 4)*2 + 1d6 + 4= 22.5
Gwf 5th: (2d6 + 4+ 1.2)*2 = 24.4
S&b 5th: (1d8 + 4 + 2)*2 = 21

Dueling is maybe a bit high, but otherwise, this is what you'd expect. Using two small weapons has some advantages over using one big weapon. You'd expect gwf to get compensated with more damage for the same action economy, but for s&b to get less than either for the same action economy.

Except, you know, they aren't using the same action economy. twf is using their bonus action and not coming out remotely ahead for it.

...So make them use the same action economy. Just roll it into their attack pattern at fifth level with the extra attack feature. Done.

As to duel wielder... Fix GWM, PAM, SS, AND CE, and then we'll talk. As it stands right now duel wielder it isn't awful compared to an ASI, just unremarkable. (The third ability should be in the fighting style, though.)

[MadBear]

People always wanna make this so complicated.

Martial proficiency, no feats or fighting styles
Twf 1st: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 = 10
Gwf 1st: 2d6 + 3 = 10
S&b 1st: 1d8 + 3 = 7.5

So your bonus action makes you a little more consistent and... That's it. Yay. Not really broken since no one has a use for that bonus action yet anyway.

Twf 5th: (1d6 + 4)*2 + 1d6 = 18.5
Gwf 5th: (2d6 + 4)*2 = 22
S&b 5th: (1d8 + 4)*2 = 17

.. Now I'm spending a bonus action to barely stay ahead of the guy who only has one weapon. Disappointing.

Martial proficiency, fighting styles, no feats
Twf 1st: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3= 14
Gwf 1st: 2d6 + 3 + 1.2= 11.2
S&b 1st: 1d8 + 3 + 2= 9.5

Now we're talking! Fifty percent more than the s&b. Good use of a bonus action. Gwf is depressingly anemic here, but this is what you'd expect. If you can't use your bonus action to attack, you fall behind.

Twf 5th: (1d6 + 4)*2 + 1d6 + 4= 22.5
Gwf 5th: (2d6 + 4+ 1.2)*2 = 24.4
S&b 5th: (1d8 + 4 + 2)*2 = 21

Dueling is maybe a bit high, but otherwise, this is what you'd expect. Using two small weapons has some advantages over using one big weapon. You'd expect gwf to get compensated with more damage for the same action economy, but for s&b to get less than either for the same action economy.

Except, you know, they aren't using the same action economy. twf is using their bonus action and not coming out remotely ahead for it.

...So make them use the same action economy. Just roll it into their attack pattern at fifth level with the extra attack feature. Done.

As to duel wielder... Fix GWM, PAM, SS, AND CE, and then we'll talk. As it stands right now duel wielder it isn't awful compared to an ASI, just unremarkable. (The third ability should be in the fighting style, though.)

You'll notice my post wasn't about fixing twfing per se, so much as it was fixing the fact that it's the feats that create the biggest divide in how good they are. So my main point was that rather then fix GWM, PAM, etc. to bring Dual Wielder up to it's level. By giving the twf person a reliable attack with their reaction.

I mean, I said it right there in my first post "The often sought after fix, I see most often is too nerf, or remove those feats (in other words fix the feats you posted about). However, what if we just buffed DW a bit, to bring it's power online with the others"

Because if we're looking here, the bigger overall problem is that with GWM, the guy using the greatsword will often get a big damage boost against low AC targets, and will often get to use their bonus action to attack again (kinda stepping on twf's niche).

This is even worse with PAM which effectively gives you twf, and you get to more reliably use your reaction to attack again. '

All this would do, is give someone a better reason to pick up the Dual Wield feat, because right now, it's very lackluster compared to the other combat style feats.