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Artemician
2007-08-24, 08:09 AM
This idea came about when me and my classmate were discussing Sweetrein's Half-feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46941) idea. In our discussion. and we realized that there were two big problems with the current feat system: People simply don't have enough feats to spend them on Flavourful, but weak ones, and that some Feats are just plain worthless to take. So we threw ideas about, and came up with:

Variant: [Feat Points]

Designed to expand upon player options, Feat Points are a different way of approaching the feat system.

Instead of:

You gain a feat at first level, at level 3, and at every 3 levels thereafter
you instead use


A character possesses a number of Feat Points equal to his Hit Dice. In addition, 1st level characters gain 3 additional feat points points when they start out. Whenever you gain a level, you may spend any number of Feat Points to purchase Feats.

Feats are divided into three kinds, Least, Lesser and Standard. Least Feats cost 1 Feat Point to purchase, Lesser Feats 2, and Standard Feats 3. In general, a feat that provides a small static bonus to character level, should be a Least feat, a feat that provides a large static bonus should be a Lesser feat, and and a feat that provides a scaling bonus to character power should be a Standard Feat.

In addition, a Dungeon Master may set the Feat Point cost of certain feats at a higher number than 3, if he so wishes, if he considers them game-breaking, or too powerful. These feats are called "Power Feats", and have a number following their name denoting their Feat Point cost.

Whenever Whenever a class feature or similar effect would offer you a bonus Feat, you instead gain 3 Feat points. If the bonus Feat is a specific type of feat, such as a Luck feat by the Fortune's Friends (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 38), you may only spend the Feat Points gained this way on that kind of Feat. However, if you gain a specific feat, such as a Monk's Stunning Fist, you gain that feat, and only that feat.

If you can take a Feat multiple times, you may only take it up to a number of times equal to your Hit Dice.

Special: Flaws, when taken, only provide 2 Feat Points, instead of 3.


Disclaimer: This option is used to allow you to have more fun. If you attempt to cheese, expect to be slapped on the head with the DMG.

*DMs, these are only guidelines. If you think a Feat should belong in another category, simply tell me, or just change it yourself in your game. I don't pretend to be an expert in optimization, so if you think something doesn't fit, please tell me.

Simple, and elegant.

Example Categorization of Feats:

Core Feats:

General:
Least:
Armour Proficiency (All varieties)
Eschew Materials
Improved Overrun
Improved Unarmed Strike
Great Cleave
Mobility
Rapid Reload
Shield Proficiency (All varieties)
Skill Focus, Athletic, Diligent and the like
Toughness
Weapon Proficiency (Simple and Martial)
Track
Trample
Two-weapon Fighting, Improved and Greater
Two-weapon Defense

Lesser:
Augment Summoning
Cleave
Dodge
Extra Turning
Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will.
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Disarm
Improved Sunder
Far Shot
Manyshot
Mounted Archery
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Precise Shot, Improved
Quick Draw
Shield Proficiency
Shot on the Run
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus
Weapon Focus, Greater
Weapon Proficiency (Exotic)
Weapon Specialization
Weapon Specialization, Greater

Standard:
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Improved Critical
Improved Grapple
Improved Initiative
Improved Trip
Mounted Combat
Power Attack
Rapidshot
Ride-by-Attack
Spirited Charge
Spring Attack
Two-Weapon Fighting
Whirlwind Attack

Power:
Leadership
Natural Spell

Metamagic:
Least:
Enlarge Spell
Silenced Spell
Lesser:
Empower Spell
Heighten Spell
Maximize Spell
Still Spell
Widen Spell
Standard:
Extend Spell
Power
Quicken Spell




*Note: As you can see, we're trying to catergorize all the feats in core into these three categories. We're not quite done yet, though.

Reinboom
2007-08-24, 08:47 AM
I tried this and decided to stray away from both seeing overtly too much discussion and arguing over the power of specific feats in overly specific situations and the immense amount of work that would be taken. Of course, the premise of how many points was different, but half-feats did start as an idea similar to this for me. Thank you for that interest! Also, I love you for using the same [luck] feat as the reference.

That aside, the issues that will come up:
1) Prestige class requirements. Any feat that is a general standard for setting up for a prestige class you may wish to not make a least feat. For example, spell focus is a decently common requirement among certain spell based prestige classes, as is dodge to a lot of defensive or skillful prestige classes. Both of which, I would place under Lesser instead (though, definately not standard).
2) Be wary of feats that can be taken multiple times. One can take 3x toughness for example. Toughness, as a single feat, is definately least. 2x is about lesser power as well. More? Well, for say, 3rd level quick shot dungeon crawls or similar where I would want to use this variant - toughness surprisingly is quite overwhelmingly good. Human? +27 HP goes a long way. Also, +27 HP is a really great thing for level 3 sure - and then will be a trap for later levels unfortunately where that was 3 wasted feats. You may wish to put a special rule for obtaining the same feat more than once or twice to both help assist low level play power and to deter players from screwing themselves over in higher level play.

Next: When finishing this list, you may wish to split it into multiple lists of lists. That is 'Core Feats' - 'Complete Series' - 'Races of' - 'Eberron' - 'FR' - etc.

Another Next:
I would put quicken spell in the 'power' feats I for one, would assign it 4 points. Of course, metamagic at times is hard to figure out how to assign.

Almost Finally:
May I assist through attempting to assign feats? Also, this may help on the topic in general:
Consolidated Feats Archive at Wizards (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats)

Finally:
This is a great opportunity to balance back out flaws. I recommend having them only give 2 feat points. :smallwink:

Artemician
2007-08-24, 09:13 AM
I tried this and decided to stray away from both seeing overtly too much discussion and arguing over the power of specific feats in overly specific situations and the immense amount of work that would be taken. Of course, the premise of how many points was different, but half-feats did start as an idea similar to this for me. Thank you for that interest! Also, I love you for using the same [luck] feat as the reference.

I kinda know what you mean. Like, a Gish build will be substantially upped by this feat, especially if he goes the "Cherrypick Classes" route. But then again.. our group plays with an unspoken houserule that if you attempt to cheese, the DM pokes you in the eye with the corner of the DMG, so that's not a big issue with us. But I see your point anyway.



That aside, the issues that will come up:
1) Prestige class requirements. Any feat that is a general standard for setting up for a prestige class you may wish to not make a least feat. For example, spell focus is a decently common requirement among certain spell based prestige classes, as is dodge to a lot of defensive or skillful prestige classes. Both of which, I would place under Lesser instead (though, definately not standard).


Gotcha.



2) Be wary of feats that can be taken multiple times. One can take 3x toughness for example. Toughness, as a single feat, is definately least. 2x is about lesser power as well. More? Well, for say, 3rd level quick shot dungeon crawls or similar where I would want to use this variant - toughness surprisingly is quite overwhelmingly good. Human? +27 HP goes a long way. Also, +27 HP is a really great thing for level 3 sure - and then will be a trap for later levels unfortunately where that was 3 wasted feats. You may wish to put a special rule for obtaining the same feat more than once or twice to both help assist low level play power and to deter players from screwing themselves over in higher level play.


Again, noted.



Next: When finishing this list, you may wish to split it into multiple lists of lists. That is 'Core Feats' - 'Complete Series' - 'Races of' - 'Eberron' - 'FR' - etc.

Another Next:
I would put quicken spell in the 'power' feats I for one, would assign it 4 points. Of course, metamagic at times is hard to figure out how to assign.

Almost Finally:
May I assist through attempting to assign feats? Also, this may help on the topic in general:
Consolidated Feats Archive at Wizards (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats)

Finally:
This is a great opportunity to balance back out flaws. I recommend having them only give 2 feat points. :smallwink:

Thanks for the suggestions and the link. And of course you may help, if you have the time :smallbiggrin:.

blue_fenix
2007-08-24, 10:38 AM
This is a really great idea. I like the extra flexibility it adds without actually changing the game balance that much. One thing in particular this would be nice for is setting the TWF string of feats to a lower cost because many people complain that 3 feats is too much to pay for TWF which is not as good as THF. I might make TWF be standard, ITWF lesser, and GTWF lesser or least because you get diminishing returns on each of the feats.

brian c
2007-08-24, 11:28 AM
I kinda know what you mean. Like, a Gish build will be substantially upped by this feat, especially if he goes the "Cherrypick Classes" route. But then again.. our group plays with an unspoken houserule that if you attempt to cheese, the DM pokes you in the eye with the corner of the DMG, so that's not a big issue with us. But I see your point anyway.

We have that as an official houserule.


Nice work; I think it's definitely a good idea to do this, although it does make things more complicated.

Maldraugedhen
2007-08-24, 11:39 AM
You call them hit points rather than feat points when you mention getting 3 at first level in the OP.