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lemote
2018-01-16, 08:24 PM
Hey everyone!

I'm considering running hexblade/sorcerer build and I was wondering how you all would do it. I plan to go variant human (not sure what feat), put 4 levels into Sorcerer, then drop 1 level into Warlock. I'll continue Sorcerer after that, making it Hexblade 1/Sorcerer X. I plan to go Shadow Sorcerer from UA unless anyone has a better idea. Anyhow, please do post suggestions here as to what feats, weapons, patron, etc. Thanks for your help!

EDIT: Put Warlock instead of Paladin

Laserlight
2018-01-16, 11:14 PM
put 4 levels into Sorcerer, then drop 1 level into Paladin. I'll continue Sorcerer after that, making it Hexblade 1/Sorcerer X

I assume you mean "drop one level into Warlock".

"Tell me how to build this" without specifying what you're trying to do is like saying "optimize this vehicle" without mentioning whether you want an ultralight or a submarine.

Presumably you want melee, since you're dipping Hexblade, but one level doesn't give you much. You can't smite, you don't get a patron, you don't get Extra Attack.

Dalebert
2018-01-17, 12:06 AM
What Laserlight said. What are you going for?

With nothing to go on, my advice would be do two levels of warlock. Level 2 is a lot of bang for the buck and grab those invocations.

Shadow sorcerers are kind of broken and are a good flavor fit for warlock. The Hound of Ill Omen is amazing. Their shadow form at lvl 18 is also awesome.

lemote
2018-01-17, 12:35 AM
Apologies for my stupidity with the Paladin thing! Anyhow, yes I aim to focus on melee. On top of that, my main focus is dishing out a bunch of damage. I'm not looking to be the greatest all-arounder really, but when it comes to dishing out damage, I want that to be my thing. You guys have made it clear that dropping 1 level will most likely not be sufficient. I already have clearance to use Shadow Sorc, so my plan is to drop X amount of levels into Sorcerer and have a bit of Hexblade there too.

My plan is to use darkness and get advantage on my attacks and disadvantage on enemy attacks. Since I want to melee, I plan to drop some into Hexblade so I can dish out some nice damage in that darkness. A few big things for me for me is I'm stuck on choosing between variant human and half-elf, what feats I wanna go with (Resilient, GWM, Elven Accuracy, etc.), and how I should build stat and equipment wise. I have stuff in mind, but I can't make a decision nor do I believe my thoughts will be the best.

Sorry for being so vague to start off and thanks!!

Chugger
2018-01-17, 12:36 AM
Like the above posters said (they're quite right), we need to know what you wanna do w/ this build.

If it helps you, I'll try to explain in more detail what we're asking for.

Do you wanna go mainly melee - i.e. are u using the hexblade part to swing a weapon, and are you spells backing it up?

If so you want more lvls in hexblade or even some in pal for smite, either the new warlock smite or pal's divine smite - to do awesome single target damage.

Or it looks more like you're taking hexblade for the curse, hex, and eldritch blast maybe - to use over firebolt when you need to do cantrip damage. And yes, w/ sorc quicken (iirc) you can do insane damage eb'ing as a sorlock. You need a second level in lock (or hexblade) to get the invocation to make this work. Agonizing Blast I think it's called (so at this point you're doin 1d10 from eb plus 1d6 from hex plus your cha mod from the invo).

But what are you up to here? Also I'm gonna try to find and link a crazy link on sorcadin, just so you have another model to contrast - and - if you're willing to dig into the discussion, near present (i.e. near the end of discussion) the people talk about sorlock vs sorcadin and even how to mix all 3, iirc. If not its still a killer link and great to study, though it may be a bit old school now cuz it's mostly pre xgte - until you get deep into the discussion.

Chugger
2018-01-17, 12:38 AM
Okay you were typing an answer as I was typing my above thing, so a lot of it won't apply - except - do look at this link! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502673-Unlimited-Blade-Works-The-Guide-to-the-Ultimate-Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass

Chugger
2018-01-17, 12:40 AM
Petenutbutter is smart - this may help u too http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502248-Ultimate-Optimizer-s-Multiclassing-Guide

lemote
2018-01-17, 12:43 AM
Haha! It's all good. I actually thought about going Sorcadin for a while and read that thread (Gastronomie's). I especially noted Spock's comments on Hexblade/Sorcerer and that's where I got the idea of just dipping 1 level into Hexblade :). I've also seen Peanut Butter's, but I'm going to re-read it since I haven't read it as much as Gastronomie's.

Chugger
2018-01-17, 12:44 AM
Apologies for my stupidity with the Paladin thing! Anyhow, yes I aim to focus on melee. On top of that, my main focus is dishing out a bunch of damage. I'm not looking to be the greatest all-arounder really, but when it comes to dishing out damage, I want that to be my thing. You guys have made it clear that dropping 1 level will most likely not be sufficient. I already have clearance to use Shadow Sorc, so my plan is to drop X amount of levels into Sorcerer and have a bit of Hexblade there too.

My plan is to use darkness and get advantage on my attacks and disadvantage on enemy attacks. Since I want to melee, I plan to drop some into Hexblade so I can dish out some nice damage in that darkness. A few big things for me for me is I'm stuck on choosing between variant human and half-elf, what feats I wanna go with (Resilient, GWM, Elven Accuracy, etc.), and how I should build stat and equipment wise. I have stuff in mind, but I can't make a decision nor do I believe my thoughts will be the best.

Sorry for being so vague to start off and thanks!!

Okay, you need min 5 lvls in hexblade and pact of the blade to get extra attack at lvl 5, and you will really want it.

The only way to get extra extra attacks w/out going hexb 5 or pal 5 or something like that is to rely on your sorc points and quicken the SCAG cantrip GFB (green flame blade) or Twin the scag cantrip BB booming blade. Scag is a book - sword coast adv. guide.

You need to go at least 2 into hexblade to get at least some invocations, imho - though one could work w/ sorc points and the scag cantrips, though you'll be gimped doing this til you get higher up in sorc to get enough sorc pts to pull it off - and you'll feel like you're always stressed over how many to spend. Especially if long rests are hard to come by.

Read the links and come back to us. Are you planning on SMITING? That's really the best way to get your single target damage sky high, and pals are best at this - though the new lock/hexblade invo is not bad (but may require lvl 5 - I feel it's more limited cuz it only uses lock slots - but at least those recharge on short r's).

lemote
2018-01-17, 12:55 AM
Okay, you need min 5 lvls in hexblade and pact of the blade to get extra attack at lvl 5, and you will really want it.

The only way to get extra extra attacks w/out going hexb 5 or pal 5 or something like that is to rely on your sorc points and quicken the SCAG cantrip GFB (green flame blade) or Twin the scag cantrip BB booming blade. Scag is a book - sword coast adv. guide.

You need to go at least 2 into hexblade to get at least some invocations, imho - though one could work w/ sorc points and the scag cantrips, though you'll be gimped doing this til you get higher up in sorc to get enough sorc pts to pull it off - and you'll feel like you're always stressed over how many to spend. Especially if long rests are hard to come by.

Read the links and come back to us. Are you planning on SMITING? That's really the best way to get your single target damage sky high, and pals are best at this - though the new lock/hexblade invo is not bad (but may require lvl 5 - I feel it's more limited cuz it only uses lock slots - but at least those recharge on short r's).

Alright, I read the stuff I haven't seen on Gastronomie's and Peanut Butter's. I see that I still did not convey myself well enough, and again that's my fault. My qualm with the Sorcadin and what unnerved me is how long can a Sorcadin maintain a good amount of damage output over a reasonably long period of time? I don't want to be the one-trick pony that is useless after using some smites. Is the Sorcadin able to maintain consistent damage after dueling an enemy, be it through having strong base damage or through not needing to use a lot of spell slots/sorcerery points to defeat an enemy? I really want to know if such a nova multiclass can maintain itself thorugh one of those two ways. Thanks! :)

Laserlight
2018-01-17, 12:56 AM
I played a Darkness/ Devil's Sight hexblade before XGtE came out. The "advantage on attacks, disadvantage on enemies" was nice, but you have to remember that your first action in every fight is going to be "I cast Darkness", which means that you do zero damage on the most important turn of most fights. If your DM tends to give you 3-4 round fights, you're going to feel like you're not accomplishing much. You may be able to mitigate that somewhat by casting Darkness and then moving into contact and getting an OA. Of course, if your DM gives you lengthy fights, that's not such a problem.

And since you basically have permanent advantage, you probably want to look at ways to get multiple attacks and go crit fishing--TWF, although that takes a bonus action you may have better use for, or keep going in Hexblade until you get the extra attack.

Since the Hexblade can no longer smite with Sorc slots, that MC is a lot less attractive than it used to be pre-XGtE. I'd think about using Paladin/Sorc instead.

lemote
2018-01-17, 12:58 AM
I played a Darkness/ Devil's Sight hexblade before XGtE came out. The "advantage on attacks, disadvantage on enemies" was nice, but you have to remember that your first action in every fight is going to be "I cast Darkness", which means that you do zero damage on the most important turn of most fights. If your DM tends to give you 3-4 round fights, you're going to feel like you're not accomplishing much. You may be able to mitigate that somewhat by casting Darkness and then moving into contact and getting an OA. Of course, if your DM gives you lengthy fights, that's not such a problem.

And since you basically have permanent advantage, you probably want to look at ways to get multiple attacks and go crit fishing--TWF, although that takes a bonus action you may have better use for, or keep going in Hexblade until you get the extra attack.

Since the Hexblade can no longer smite with Sorc slots, that MC is a lot less attractive than it used to be pre-XGtE. I'd think about using Paladin/Sorc instead.

!
It's been a pain to find someone who has actually done the build in forums. I haven't messaged anyone, so I resorted to just seeing if anyone has done the build online and it's been difficult to find many who have! Thank you for this wonderful advice!

Chugger
2018-01-17, 01:15 AM
Last adventure w/ my shad sorc I didn't cast darkness once - for the reason Laser said - it would have been a waste. In each fight we started apart from each other - the party and the badguys - and I was able to just get back using normal movement, and they never went after me (edit it doesn't always work like that - in previous fights shadow was very helpful).

With sorc and doing the gish thing you can quicken darkness to cast it as a b.a. - uses 2 sorc pts iirc, plus 2 more using the shad sorc feature, not that big a deal but it does cost - and now you can do a melee attack on your action - or shoot a missile - or cast a cantrip. If fights are over in 3-4 rounds, as they often are, that keeps you more involved.

Also tunnel and small room fighting can make darkness either a giant pain - or an amazing party-saver, depending on the particulars.

Like Laser said, Pal's DS is considerable - and you don't give that up casually if you're gishing (being a caster and a meleer). I have a friend who plays sorcadin - he's in tier 3 now AL - and I heard a DM saying "so they came upon the beholder, but the sorcadin (he was talking about my friend) stepped up, and bam, in one round there went over half my beholder's hit points" - apparently they slaughtered it. As you should do if you can - beholders are way bad.

If you do the SCAG thing I talked about - which you should look into (bb and gfb) - you are locked into that book if you AL - do you AL? You can only use phb +1 other book per char in AL. Keep that in mind if you do AL. If yer not AL you're fine.

lemote
2018-01-17, 01:26 AM
Last adventure w/ my shad sorc I didn't cast darkness once - for the reason Laser said - it would have been a waste. In each fight we started apart from each other - the party and the badguys - and I was able to just get back using normal movement, and they never went after me (edit it doesn't always work like that - in previous fights shadow was very helpful).

With sorc and doing the gish thing you can quicken darkness to cast it as a b.a. - uses 2 sorc pts iirc, plus 2 more using the shad sorc feature, not that big a deal but it does cost - and now you can do a melee attack on your action - or shoot a missile - or cast a cantrip. If fights are over in 3-4 rounds, as they often are, that keeps you more involved.

Also tunnel and small room fighting can make darkness either a giant pain - or an amazing party-saver, depending on the particulars.

Like Laser said, Pal's DS is considerable - and you don't give that up casually if you're gishing (being a caster and a meleer). I have a friend who plays sorcadin - he's in tier 3 now AL - and I heard a DM saying "so they came upon the beholder, but the sorcadin (he was talking about my friend) stepped up, and bam, in one round there went over half my beholder's hit points" - apparently they slaughtered it. As you should do if you can - beholders are way bad.

If you do the SCAG thing I talked about - which you should look into (bb and gfb) - you are locked into that book if you AL - do you AL? You can only use phb +1 other book per char in AL. Keep that in mind if you do AL. If yer not AL you're fine.

Thanks for all the advice! I'm not doing AL, so I'm fine. I wanted to try using GWM because on Gastronomie's guide, he indicated that while it's not as all-around, it is the master of damage for Sorcadins. No clue if that synergizes with the SCAG stuff you told me about, but I'll check it out.

Chugger
2018-01-17, 04:19 AM
Watch out for gwm, because if you don't have a really good plus to hit and if the target has a very high ac, you will miss so much that you'll do less damage. There's an algorithm somewhere ... which I'll try to find and paste late.

For a "gish" DS'ing crits really is the insane single target damage doer. Not gwm. Gwm can be good but imho BM fighters rock it best with Precision, turning misses into hits by choosing the right times to add that plus 1d8 to hit.

Ten eight-sided dice on a DS crit is 45 points of extra damage on average - just to put things in perspective.

Okay green flame blade can be Quickened but most DMs say it can't be twinned. If you have extra attack and via sorc or warlock you have gfb, you can quicken gfb for your b.a. and do weap damage + str or cha mod + hex dam if appropriate + the gfb damage, which is 1d8 fire to your main target and 1d8 + cha mod to a target w/in 5' of it. Also plus your draconic sorc mod if you're draconic sorc fire. Then, after, doing that, you can cast a lvl 1 or higher spell on your main turn - or you can take your two normal melee attacks - and you can DS on the gfb strike and the two melee attacks, iirc.

You can twin Booming Blade if two creatures are near each other, which adds 1d8 to each if you hit them and does 1d8 if they move - but they won't. I hate bb - it never works w/ my dm's. But if you only go Pal 2 you can use quicken gfb and/or bb to make multiple melee attacks - and DS a lot - without extra attack.

Most go deep into pal to get the lvl 6 aura, which is very nice. But you can be a much stronger sorc caster by going pal 2/sorc 18. You can end MADness by going pal 2/hexblade 1/sorc 17 and still get wish, though you miss a nice power not going sorc 18.

The scag cantrips are only really useful with certain builds and not at all with others. They were much more common before xgte. In AL I haven't seen them used at all since xgte came out, because of the +1 book rule.

Chugger
2018-01-17, 04:50 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472938-Great-Weapon-Mastery-How-to-5-10-Like-a-Pro

BobZan
2018-01-17, 05:56 AM
My 50c:

Go Sorc 1 for Con prof. This is the best option.

After that you have to identify how you're going to advance. If you keep on Sorc you'll want at least 5 levels, to get that huge power spike. If you're splitting before, get 2 levels of Warlock by lv 5.

You'll need at least 2 Warlock levels to make it worth.

My recomendation is to go Sorc 1 / Warlock 2 / Sorc x. Your at-wills will grow in strenght, you'll have medium armor and shield and 2 slots/sr.

This way, by 5th level, you'll have your Eldritch Blast rocking.

lemote
2018-01-17, 05:11 PM
Watch out for gwm, because if you don't have a really good plus to hit and if the target has a very high ac, you will miss so much that you'll do less damage. There's an algorithm somewhere ... which I'll try to find and paste late.

For a "gish" DS'ing crits really is the insane single target damage doer. Not gwm. Gwm can be good but imho BM fighters rock it best with Precision, turning misses into hits by choosing the right times to add that plus 1d8 to hit.

Ten eight-sided dice on a DS crit is 45 points of extra damage on average - just to put things in perspective.

Okay green flame blade can be Quickened but most DMs say it can't be twinned. If you have extra attack and via sorc or warlock you have gfb, you can quicken gfb for your b.a. and do weap damage + str or cha mod + hex dam if appropriate + the gfb damage, which is 1d8 fire to your main target and 1d8 + cha mod to a target w/in 5' of it. Also plus your draconic sorc mod if you're draconic sorc fire. Then, after, doing that, you can cast a lvl 1 or higher spell on your main turn - or you can take your two normal melee attacks - and you can DS on the gfb strike and the two melee attacks, iirc.

You can twin Booming Blade if two creatures are near each other, which adds 1d8 to each if you hit them and does 1d8 if they move - but they won't. I hate bb - it never works w/ my dm's. But if you only go Pal 2 you can use quicken gfb and/or bb to make multiple melee attacks - and DS a lot - without extra attack.

Most go deep into pal to get the lvl 6 aura, which is very nice. But you can be a much stronger sorc caster by going pal 2/sorc 18. You can end MADness by going pal 2/hexblade 1/sorc 17 and still get wish, though you miss a nice power not going sorc 18.

The scag cantrips are only really useful with certain builds and not at all with others. They were much more common before xgte. In AL I haven't seen them used at all since xgte came out, because of the +1 book rule.

So basically go Longsword Sorcadin (which is on Gastronomie's guide)? If so, should I stick with his 2/18 suggestion or go with pal 2/hexblade 1/sorc 17? I'm not super worried about my sorc 18 ability, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Also, would it be smarter to just to with Draconic over Shadow?