Permanency Spell

[clash]

I want to introduce this spell into a 5e game I am running as a throwback to older editions. Please let me know if this is balanced.

Permanency:
Level: 3
Casting Time: 1 hr
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (Diamonds worth at least 250 gp, which the spell consumes)
Duration: Permanent

Choose a first or second level spell that you know that has a duration of at least 1 hour and targets a creature. You can make the effects of that spell permanent. At the end of casting this spell you can expend a spell slot for the level of the spell selected and touch a willing creature. The selected spell is then considered dormant on the selected creature. A creature with a dormant spell cast on them can choose to activate it's effects by attuning to it (See magic item attunement). Once the spell has been activated the creature is treated as if under the effects of the spell, so long as they are attuned to it. If they choose to lose their attunement to the spell, then the effect becomes dormant again. If something would normally cause the effect of the spell to end early such as being dispelled, attacking while invisible, etc. It instead causes the effect to become dormant and you must spend time attuning to it again to gain it's benefits.

At higher level
When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, it requires diamonds worth at least 2500 gp and you may choose a spell of third level to make dormant on the target.

When you use a spell slot of 7th level or higher, it requires diamonds worth at least 25,000 gp and you may choose a spell of 4th level to make dormant on the creature.

When you use a spell slot of 9th level, it requires diamonds worth at least 100,000 gp and you may choose a spell of 5th level to make dormant on the creature.

[nickl_2000]

To be honest, it completely breaks the whole concentration mechanic. You could make it so that a person has multiple concentrations spells at the same time.

Consider a Paladin with multiple Auras active at once.
Or giving a Moon Druid Permanent Barkskin. Then they will always have an AC of 15 and can also summon creatures
Permanent Detect Magic would be pretty amazing too. No one could use invisibility against you ever
How about constant Blur?
Or you could go really silly and give someone constant guidance.
How about permanent enlarge?
Constant, never ending Haste?
Invisibility? How would that one work if you make it permanent?


I get it that you are limiting it by making it take a magic items slot, but it's making magic items basically redundant as there are better spells out there than most DMs would give away magic items.

I get what you are working towards, but I think it needs more restrictions to make it really viable in 5e

[demonslayerelf]

Yeah, this spell is a bit much. A certainly like the idea of it taking your Attunement slot to actually use it, and otherwise doing nothing.

I could echo Nickl, but I'm not going to. Instead, I'll suggest making the "Permanent" spell instead need a duration of 1 hour, not 1 minute. And I suggest that because there's less abuse with it. No permanent haste, for instance.

It still covers a lot of smaller useful ones like Alter Self, Darkvision, etc.

[nickl_2000]

Thank you, I was trying to come up with a limit that would be useful and was struggling with it. You can certainly get a lot with the hour+ duration, plus since this spell takes an hour to cast it would make sense that the other spell needs to last and hour as well.

Things you would still get
Stoneskin
Spiderclimb
See Invisibility
Protection Spells
Technically you could cast Polymorph and then Permanency to make True Polymorph at level 7, but you can throw a d4 at someone who tries this
Non Detection
Magic Weapon
Mage Armor
Invisibility is still a problem, so you may want to not allow that one in general
Freedom of Movement
Enhance Abilities
Disguise Self
Darkvision
Barkskin
Beastsense
Alter Self

And a few from Xanathar's that appears to be of no consequence. Other than the polymorph shenanigans, it seems pretty decent to me.

[clash]

Yeah, this spell is a bit much. A certainly like the idea of it taking your Attunement slot to actually use it, and otherwise doing nothing.

I could echo Nickl, but I'm not going to. Instead, I'll suggest making the "Permanent" spell instead need a duration of 1 hour, not 1 minute. And I suggest that because there's less abuse with it. No permanent haste, for instance.

It still covers a lot of smaller useful ones like Alter Self, Darkvision, etc.

I like this. It still includes a lot of the options that you can get from magic items, so it should be comparable.

Polymorph - Actually not so great as I would just rule anyone who tried this, would still revert to their normal form if they drop to 0hp, any nothing in the spell allows changing back.

Invisibility - For normal invisibility it would be all but useless as I would still rule the spell ends if you attack or cast a spell, and greater invisibility wouldn't have a long enough duration.

I am wondering if with the hour restriction there would be enough eligible spells of levels 3-5 to make those options worthwhile.

[clash]

Took a quick look for some higher level spells. Still some worthwhile options. Not mentioned above:

Level 3:
Water walk
Water breathing

Those seem fine

Level 5:
Rary’s Telepathic Bond - Probably not worth the atunement at level 17+
Skill Empowerment - Expertise as a magic item. I could see using this even late game. Doesn't seem broken though.

[gavinator154]

I'm with nickl_2000 I think. This needs some kind of restriction. While it would be 2500 gp in diamonds, giving permanent haste on your monk is broken. I like the idea of only spells that last an hour, normally they are weaker spells.

[demonslayerelf]

Im not gonna bother quoting because of how self-explanatory this one is.

I would say there should be a rider on Polymorph, which is that a Permanency-d Polymorph is a sort of ¨Second Form¨ type deal while you're attuned, not the normal Polymorph effect. Because that would more or less just be True Polymorph but only beasts, which is... No. I would copy the Vampire Shapechanger thing for it. Just a thought.

Invisibility should have a rider, but more like one that says you ¨Lose attunement to this effect if you attack... Etc.¨ To keep it balanced.

[clash]

Good call. I will see what I can do. How does this sound?

If something would normally cause the effect of the spell to end early such as being dispelled, attacking while invisible, etc. It instead causes the effect to become dormant and you must spend time attuning to it again to gain it's benefits.

[Gr7mm Bobb]

For the most part I really like how this is set up. The hour limit keeps things in check for the most part and I would love to reward a player with this sort of "blessing" as a reward instead of a piece of treasure from time to time.

Spells like Invisibility shouldn't be too awful because it causes itself to end. With that in mind though, I suggest that if something causes the permanent spell to end, it causes the attunement to break as well (thus requiring another hour to re-attune). On a similar line of thought, the effects of dispel magic and the like need to also be considered. Would the successful dispel successful destroy the ongoing permant magic, or would it just break the attunment?

Also, how would the duration of this spell be classified? Could it be seen as having an instantaneous or permanent duration?

EDIT: Well carp. I was slow in typing this out. Apparently there were changes.

[clash]

Edited op to handle dispel magic and effects that normally end the spell. Also I put it as permanent because of the nature of the ongoing effects. I feel Instantaneous could work as well.

[demonslayerelf]

I have a thought.

You can attempt to dispel the Permanence of a spell, but the DC is 15+the Permanence's level+the Permanence-d Spell's level. Which means, like 29 at most, and 19 at a minimum.

It would also mean the duration is "Until Dispelled."

You don't want it to be instantaneous, because then it will work within an Antimagic sphere, because the effect is just flat permanent.

[clash]

I have a thought.

You can attempt to dispel the Permanence of a spell, but the DC is 15+the Permanence's level+the Permanence-d Spell's level. Which means, like 29 at most, and 19 at a minimum.

It would also mean the duration is "Until Dispelled."

You don't want it to be instantaneous, because then it will work within an Antimagic sphere, because the effect is just flat permanent.

Good point on the instantaneous bit. I am not a fan of having ti permanently dispellable because it is basically a magic item at this point so to just lose it completely on a good roll from an enemy, would really suck. I like it btter that dispel works on it like normal but just makes it dormant again so you ahve to re-attune

[Gr7mm Bobb]

How would this spell interact with spells like Armor of Agathys? Would Re-attuning to it recast the spell onto the user? How concerning can this spell be? Should permanency be adjusted to accomidate Armor?

[clash]

As written right now, Armor of Agathys and False life as well dont technically end when you run out of temphp. If you ruled that they did, then reattuning would cast the spell again otherwise they are pretty useless for this spell. This doesnt seem particularly potent to me compared to some of the other choices, but I don't know that I should complicate the spell by adding in exceptions for temphp.