Do I understand the Hex Spell correctly?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Pretty much as a bonus action my character pulls out the material component, says the magic words and makes the magic sign then w/o a save or anything whatever character she wants is Hexed for up to an hour if she can maintain concentration on it?

Are any monsters immune to being Hexed? Is there an immunity to being "cursed" I need to look out for?

Is "remove curse" the only thing which removes the effect? Our old DM used Dispel Magic on a couple things.

I'm thinking the most likely use is Hex a bad guy giving them disadvantage on Dex saves, shoot that person with Eldritch Blast since I've already cast a level 1 spell, then letting the party Wizard likely hit the bad guy for full damage with whatever spell he has which requires a Dex save? Seems doubly good if we had more casters in our party who could just line up Dex saving throws lol.


The text for reference: http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Hex
"
1st-level enchantment

Casting Time: 1 bonus action

Range: 90 feet

Components: V, S, M (the petrified eye of a newt)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour

You place a curse on a creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. The target has disadvantage on ability checks made with the chosen ability. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a turn of yours to curse a new creature. A remove curse cast on the target ends this spell early.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours. "

[BobZan]

Yeah, you pick the target and it's cursed.

A valuable note is: it gives disadvantage for ability checks, not saving throws.

[DivisibleByZero]

Pretty much as a bonus action my character pulls out the material component, says the magic words and makes the magic sign then w/o a save or anything whatever character she wants is Hexed for up to an hour if she can maintain concentration on it?

Are any monsters immune to being Hexed? Is there an immunity to being "cursed" I need to look out for?

Is "remove curse" the only thing which removes the effect? Our old DM used Dispel Magic on a couple things.

I'm thinking the most likely use is Hex a bad guy giving them disadvantage on Dex saves, shoot that person with Eldritch Blast since I've already cast a level 1 spell, then letting the party Wizard likely hit the bad guy for full damage with whatever spell he has which requires a Dex save? Seems doubly good if we had more casters in our party who could just line up Dex saving throws lol.

1) Correct
2) None. No.
3) Remove Curse would work. Dispel Magic would also work.
4) Disadvantage on Ability Checks, not on Saves.

[Boci]

Another more niche note, if enemies run away, an unconventional tactics but some DMs have it, you get screwed out of the full benefit of a hex if your targets runs away before you kill them, as you are only allowed to select a new target if the old one drops to 0 hitpoints.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Ah, ability checks, not saving throws!

That makes a big difference. We don't grapple alot in our world lol

[DivisibleByZero]

Ah, ability checks, not saving throws!

That makes a big difference. We don't grapple alot in our world lol

It's not just for grappling.
You can target any stat, and "Typically, a target doesn't know it's under the effect of a spell like hex until it experiences the spell's effects" (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/552629335937392640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2015%2F0 1%2F14%2Fhex-effect%2F), so it actually becomes fairly amazingly useful, even out of combat, under the right circumstances.

[baticeer]

Another interesting niche case is if you know you’re going to fight/ambush someone and can manage to Hex them before combat starts, you can give them disadvantage on their initiative roll, because initiative is technically a Dex check

[MarkVIIIMarc]

It's not just for grappling.
You can target any stat, and "Typically, a target doesn't know it's under the effect of a spell like hex until it experiences the spell's effects" (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/552629335937392640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2015%2F0 1%2F14%2Fhex-effect%2F), so it actually becomes fairly amazingly useful, even out of combat, under the right circumstances.

I like that initiative trick. What other out of combat uses does it have?

[PhoenixPhyre]

I like that initiative trick. What other out of combat uses does it have?

Hex (Wisdom)--you can switch it to a new target and give them disadvantage on Perception/Insight so you can sneak past/lie to them. Since moving the hex is not casting a spell (IIRC), it doesn't have visible/audible components so they don't know they've been hexed.

[NecessaryWeevil]

I like that initiative trick. What other out of combat uses does it have?

Sports and gambling come to mind.

[Boci]

Hex (Wisdom)--you can switch it to a new target and give them disadvantage on Perception/Insight so you can sneak past/lie to them. Since moving the hex is not casting a spell (IIRC), it doesn't have visible/audible components so they don't know they've been hexed.

But you can only move it when the origional holder dies.

[Rhaegar14]

In the right social encounter, Hexing Charisma could be vital. Hitting their Wisdom also makes them easier to lie to in addition to sneaking past them (Deception is opposed by Insight).

[Eunostus]

But you can only move it when the origional holder dies.
Hex can actually be transferred when they drop to 0 HP, so you can also move it if you knock them unconscious.

[Oerlaf]

Hex also works on all your attacks, so it's great for multiclass. I have a multiclass character, whose usual tactics is

1 Turn. bonus action - Hex using a cleric spell slot, action - eldritch blast for (1d10 + Cha) force and 1d6 necrotic damage each.
2 Turn - bonus action - spiritual weapon using a warlock spell slot for 1d8+1d8/2SL+1d6 from hex damage, eldritch blast on action.

[Malifice]

Another interesting niche case is if you know you’re going to fight/ambush someone and can manage to Hex them before combat starts, you can give them disadvantage on their initiative roll, because initiative is technically a Dex check

Wouldnt you saying you're casting Hex on someone trigger combat starting?

[Talamare]

Wouldnt you saying you're casting Hex on someone trigger combat starting?

No

PHB states that people don't know that a spell has been casted on them unless the spell has an obviously perceptible effect.

[Asmotherion]

-Hex targeting Wisdom after you make a Stealth Check. Moonlight as a Rogue of the Party if you Lack one.
-Hex targeting Wisdom and then use Friends/Charm Person on the Target. From Behind a wall, or with Subtle Spell if you're a Sorlock. He'll Believe any lie you tell them, including that you know them since kindergarden and that their last name is secretly Fred, but their parents never told them because of circumstances. Moonlight as a Bard in the Party if you Lack one.
-Hex on Strength, and perhaps have someone cast Bull's Strength on you. Win easy money on Bras de Fer.
-Hex on Dex on someone held captive, in order not to get out of a rope.
-Hex on Constitution on someone currently drinking a beer to "help them get drunk".
-Hex on Charisma to someone speaking, trying to influence the outcome of the plot, to make them come out rude/having a secret agenda (or exposing their secret agenda)/Fishy.
-Hex targeting Charisma on Interogations, coupled with the Friends Cantrip can be a very effective way to learn the truth, since Bluff is a Charisma skill.

[Randomthom]

No

PHB states that people don't know that a spell has been casted on them unless the spell has an obviously perceptible effect.

I missed that when reading the PHB, that's a pretty substantial change from 3.x rules. I believe you but could you provide a direct reference for this? Thanks in advance!

[Malifice]

No

PHB states that people don't know that a spell has been casted on them unless the spell has an obviously perceptible effect.

Leaving aside the verbal, somatic and material components of the spell, Hex has has perceivable effect. It imposes a condition on you akin to one level of exhaustion for one ability score.

If your PC was standing in front of an orc talking to it and tried to cast Hex, initiative would be triggered.

Same deal if a warlock you were talking to suddenly decided to cast Hex on you. Initiative gets determined before the spell is resolved.

[Talamare]

I missed that when reading the PHB, that's a pretty substantial change from 3.x rules. I believe you but could you provide a direct reference for this? Thanks in advance!

Pg204
Second Paragraph under Targets

Leaving aside the verbal, somatic and material components of the spell, Hex has has perceivable effect. It imposes a condition on you akin to one level of exhaustion for one ability score.

If your PC was standing in front of an orc talking to it and tried to cast Hex, initiative would be triggered.

Same deal if a warlock you were talking to suddenly decided to cast Hex on you. Initiative gets determined before the spell is resolved.

It does not impose Exhaustion even if the effects are mechanically similar.
It imposes a penalty when a person attempts to do skill check. Until they attempt to do the skill check they do not have any penalties or perceivable effects.
Even when they attempt the skill check they still may not know that it is the effect of a spell that is causing them to fail their skill checks.

A PC Standing infront of an Orc who doesn't know Magic may just think the PC is going insane.

If a Warlock you're actively communicating with attempts to cast Hex on you, you may attempt to make an Arcana Check. If you succeed you may know that the Warlock is casting Hex, and act appropriately.

If you fail you won't know what spell they cast. You may Murder Hobo him, but then you would be committing Murder. That's upto your DM to decide who was in the wrong in that situation. Tho for all you know the Warlock was trying to impress you by creating a pretty flower.

[Contrast]

But you can only move it when the origional holder dies.

You can only move it if the target dies (or more technically drops to 0 hit points). You can then shift it to a new target on any subsequent turn (not just that turn). Sage Advice (https://thesageadvice.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/hexplained/)

So you could kill someone and as long as the spell duration lasts and you concentrate you could designate a new target many hours later without actually recasting the spell.

I'm not gonna get into the argument as to how noticable that is in of itself :smallbiggrin:

[Malifice]

Pg204
Second Paragraph under Targets


It does not impose Exhaustion even if the effects are mechanically similar.
It imposes a penalty when a person attempts to do skill check. Until they attempt to do the skill check they do not have any penalties or perceivable effects.
Even when they attempt the skill check they still may not know that it is the effect of a spell that is causing them to fail their skill checks.

A PC Standing infront of an Orc who doesn't know Magic may just think the PC is going insane.

If a Warlock you're actively communicating with attempts to cast Hex on you, you may attempt to make an Arcana Check. If you succeed you may know that the Warlock is casting Hex, and act appropriately.

If you fail you won't know what spell they cast. You may Murder Hobo him, but then you would be committing Murder. That's upto your DM to decide who was in the wrong in that situation. Tho for all you know the Warlock was trying to impress you by creating a pretty flower.

Interesting house rules. Thanks for sharing.

[DivisibleByZero]

Interesting house rules. Thanks for sharing.

Nope. (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/552629335937392640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2015%2F0 1%2F14%2Fhex-effect%2F) That was an interpretation of how T might run it at her own table, not an house rule.

The things (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22807679&postcount=15)that you said (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22807753&postcount=19)were a combination of your own interpretation of how you'd run it at your table, mixed with some house rules.

[Tanarii]

I missed that when reading the PHB, that's a pretty substantial change from 3.x rules. I believe you but could you provide a direct reference for this? Thanks in advance!
It's also mentions on Xanathar's page 85.

Further down that page, it's relevant when trying to identify the spell using the new rules for identifying magic via Arcana checks. For spells like Hex with no perceivable effect, you need to observe the caster casting the spell. So once it is cast, or once it's been moved to a creature as a bonus action, it takes a Detect Magic to detect the spell, or Identify to positively ID it.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

So it would be pretty common by the book to expect my character to be able to hex someone who can't see or hear her casting it.

Depending on who I am hexing if they see her casting it a wizard, bard, warlock or sorcerer will probably know she casted a spell and likely get an arcana roll at the least to see if they know tge exact spell she cast. If my character knows Hex and its cast in front of her I'd expect an almost automatic recognition it was cast.

Far as if the victim knows they were hexed, any idea if they actually feel an ill effect?

[Tanarii]

So it would be pretty common by the book to expect my character to be able to hex someone who can't see or hear her casting it.

Depending on who I am hexing if they see her casting it a wizard, bard, warlock or sorcerer will probably know she casted a spell and likely get an arcana roll at the least to see if they know tge exact spell she cast. If my character knows Hex and its cast in front of her I'd expect an almost automatic recognition it was cast.

Far as if the victim knows they were hexed, any idea if they actually feel an ill effect?
In theory, anyone who sees or hears you cast the spell knows you've cast a spell.

Anyone that sees or hears the spell cast can make a DC 15+spell level Arcana check as a reaction using the new Xanathar rule, to identify the spell.

Up to you or your DM if they "feel an ill effect". It's possible a Hex is just bad luck, so they may feel nothing. Although obviously they'll notice they're screwing up more (disadvantage) if they're doing stuff requiring the specific ability checks. But they won't necessarily attribute it to a spell being cast, assuming they saw it.

[Talamare]

Interesting house rules. Thanks for sharing.

Oh, I didn't know that the OFFICIAL DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS PLAYER HANDBOOK was House Rules

While the non existent, made up garbage you're talking about is correct way to play.

Basically everything I have said is from an Official Source
Including the Arcana Check required to identify that the Warlock is casting Hex

Congratulations on being 100% wrong, then reacting by attempting to dismiss your opponent.


So it would be pretty common by the book to expect my character to be able to hex someone who can't see or hear her casting it.

Depending on who I am hexing if they see her casting it a wizard, bard, warlock or sorcerer will probably know she casted a spell and likely get an arcana roll at the least to see if they know tge exact spell she cast. If my character knows Hex and its cast in front of her I'd expect an almost automatic recognition it was cast.

Far as if the victim knows they were hexed, any idea if they actually feel an ill effect?
You gain advantage on it if it's your class spell. However the idea is that just because you know how to cast a specific spell doesn't mean you know when others are casting that spell.

My guess is that they are trying to go with the idea that each spell could potentially be cast in a different way.

[Citan]

Interesting house rules. Thanks for sharing.
Hey Malifice, please stop trying to impose your own houserule as if it was the RAW each and every time Hex is mentioned.

You are welcome to rule as you see fit in your games, but that does not change the fact that nothing by RAW makes Hex automatically noticed, whether by the target or someone close to it.

If you really want to defend your point of view, imo it'be just better to keep alive one way or another one of those threads about it that pop regularly. :)

Back to OP: I think pretty much everything has been told.
Subtle Hex is one of the reasons I love dipping Warlock as a Sorcerer for a character that specializes in "meta" tactics (as in non-fighting but rather long-term moves). It can be used in all sorts of situations, even if most of those are still kinda situational (read= you could probably achieve the same result without it, it would just be somewhat more difficult).

It saved my group once or twice though, when someone managed to distance us and ultimately get out of sight from us by using Invisibility, and we had nobody with counter: hopefully a Hex Dex cast in time stacked with a Bardic Inspiration allowed us to locate him, then we all just ganged up ranged attacks to drop him (at least his concentration) while the fastest of us dashed to ensure it doesn't escape anymore.

We also won a arm-battle championship once, earning a fair amount of gold. The entitled champion was suspicious though, because he didn't feel any illness or problem before (DM materialized the disadvantage as a sudden pain lancing, preventing him to use full strength) so, although there was no hint of cheating, we were frowned upon and ultimately left earlier than we thought first, just in case. XD
That's why I prefer Enhance Ability when I can spare it: as long as people don't know you, the fact that you manage prodigy is more acceptable for them. ^^

Then of course, you have the Hex Charisma for discussions. Unless you face someone that is especially reputed for being inflexible or extremely skilled at argumentation, it's an easy way to help you score if nobody can help otherwise with a Guidance or Bardic Inspiration for example. ;)

[DivisibleByZero]

My guess is that they are trying to go with the idea that each spell could potentially be cast in a different way.

That has always been true, for every edition of the game, ever.
It's the exact reason that wizards can't just pick up any old spellbook and prepare the spells form it. They have to take time to study it, and learn it themselves, and transcribe it into their own spellbook with their own style. Because no two casters cast a spell the same exact way.

[MadBear]

Just a general question towards Malifice. If casting any spell that imposes something negative upon a creature constitutes the start of combat, does that then change many non-combat intended spells in your games?

For example charm person grants advantage if your fighting the target, but if you roll initiative the moment the spell is cast, doesn't that mean the target will almost always get advantage? The same is true with enthrall.

I'm not fully convinced that Hex shouldn't necessarily be able to have been cast without the npc's knowledge, but to say it triggers combat seems a little too far.