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Durzan
2018-02-05, 12:22 AM
Illnoran Dragons
Note: This is a 3.x Race (compatible with Pathfinder and 3.5)



Minimum Age
(In Years)

Age Category

Dragon HD (Min)

Size

Base Racial Modifiers
(Based off of Size)

Class Levels
(Min.)

Notes



0

Wyrmling
(Infant)

1/2

T

-8 Str, -2 Con, -4 All Mental Stats

0

Illnoran Dragon Traits, Clan Template, +2 Natural Armor, Unplayable



2

Very Young
(Toddler/Child)

1

S

-4 Str, -2 Con, -3 All Mental Stats

0



+4 Natural Armor, Unplayable





5

Young

2

M

+0 Str, +0 Con, -2 All Mental Stats

0

Breath Weapon, +8 Natural Armor



15

Juvenile

3

L

+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, -1 All Mental Stats

1

+11 Natural Armor, Draconic DR



30

Young Adult

5

L

+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con

5

Meta-Breath Feat, +15 Natural Armor



150

Adult

10

H

+16 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con

10

+20 Natural Armor



400

Elder

20

G

+24 Str, -4 Dex, +12 Con,

12

+24 Natural Armor



600

Great Elder (Middle Age)

20

G

Same as Elder, but -1 to all Physical Stats & +1 All Mental Stats

18






800

Wyrm (Old)

20

G

Same as Elder, but -3 to all Physical Stats & +2 All Mental Stats

20






1000+

Great Wyrm (Venerable)

20

G

Same as Elder, but -6 to all Physical Stats & +3 All Mental Stats

20

Max Age: +5d100 Years







Racial Traits:


Ability Modifiers: A Dragon’s base racial modifiers are determined by its size, which is determined by its age category listed on the table. Additional Racial Modifiers are granted by the dragon’s clan template.
Racial HD: A Dragon begins play with a number of Racial HD appropriate to its Age Category listed on the table above. This effects its starting BAB, Saves, Skill Points, etc.
Size: A Dragon’s size depends on its Age Category; See the Table.
Speed: Dragons have a base speed of 60 ft and a base flight speed of 200 ft (Average Maneuverability) in their natural form. If the dragon is of size Medium or smaller, then its flight maneuverability increases by one step. If the dragon is size Large or larger, then its base flight speed increases by an additional 50 feet. A Dragon of huge size or larger has a base maneuverability of Poor. A dragon in their humanoid form has a base speed of 30 feet if medium sized, or 20 feet if small sized.
Racial Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Fly, Insight, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Perception, Survival, Search, & Stealth.
Racial Feats: All Dragons receive Improved Toughness (Homebrewed, grants 4 + 2•HD in extra HP) as a racial bonus feat, even if they do not meet the prerequisites. Upon reaching the age of Young Adult, a dragon receives a Metabreath feat as a racial bonus feat, but must meet the prerequisites of the chosen feat; most dragons choose Shape Breath. These feats are in addition to the standard feat gained from a dragon’s Total HD and feats gained from class levels or other templates.
Natural Armor: A dragon’s tough scales act as natural armor. A dragon receives a natural armor bonus depending on its age category.
Special Attacks:

Natural Weapons (True Dragon): An Illnoran Dragon has the same space/reach and natural attacks as a True Dragon of equivalent size, and deals damage accordingly. It can make use of all a True Dragon’s normal attacks, if it meets the prerequisites required to do so.
Breath Weapon (Su): A Young or older dragon gains the use of a single breath weapon. The type of breath weapon known usually depends on the Clan the dragon is from, but it is not unheard of for a dragon to be born with a different breath weapon. The breath weapon is always a line, and deals energy damage of one the following types: Fire, Lightning, Acid, Cold, or Sonic. The damage the breath weapon deals is 1d6 for every 3 HD the dragon has (including class levels, Minimum 1d6), up to a maximum of 24d6. A breath weapon can be used once every 4 rounds as a standard action. Note: Fire is the most common breath weapon.
Frightful Presence (Ex): A dragon of Young Adult age or older gains the Frightful Presence ability, just like the True Dragon's ability. A dragon loses this ability when in their humanoid form.


Special Qualities:

Dragon Clan: Each dragon receives a Clan Template as an Inherited Template, which grants additional bonuses, feats, special abilities, and/or traits.
Draconic Senses: A dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet. While in their humanoid form, a Dragon’s eye’s glow softly in the dark, revealing this trait to those who notice.
Scent
Racial Bonuses: A dragon receives a +2 racial bonus on all perception and survival checks. This bonus increases to a +4 when the dragon is in their natural form.
Draconic Immunities: All dragons have immunity to magical sleep and paralysis effects while they are in their natural form, except when otherwise noted.
Draconic Damage Reduction: A Juvenile dragon or older receives DR/Magic equal to the number of Racial HD.
Energy Immunity: Illnoran Dragons gain Energy Immunity to the energy type of their Primary breath weapon, and a vulnerability to the opposite energy type (or failing that there is an opposite energy type, usually Cold or Fire)
Dimensional Link (Su): 3x per day, an Illnoran Dragons can shift between Illnora and Draconia as a full-round action. However, doing so leaves the dragon with the fatigued condition. This ability functions like the spell Plane Shift, except that creatures traveling with the Dragon only need to be in physical contact with the dragon or another passenger, and the Dragon may only shift between the Material Plane (Illnora) and Draconia.
Humanoid Form (Ex): This ability functions similarly to Alternate Form, except where otherwise noted. As a full-round action, a Dragon may make a single concentration check (DC 15) in order to assume their humanoid form (Which is of Medium or Small size). This is an at-will ability. While in humanoid form, a Dragon retains her base physical ability scores, but loses her base size modifiers. She retains her clan racial modifiers, but doesn’t receive the racial modifiers for the humanoid race she assumes. A Dragon’s humanoid form appears to be of the equivalent age to the dragon's actual age (IE, if the dragon was a child, then her humanoid form would also be a child), and will always retain some form of vauge resemblance to their dragon form. For instance, a young female dragon with scarlet colored scales and blue eyes might appear a young human girl with bright red hair and piercing blue eyes. If surrounded by an anti-magic field, or under a spell/effect that would prevent the Dragon from transforming, then the Dragon remains in whatever her form she is currently in.


Starting Languages: Draconic and Common; Bonus Languages: Any
Alignment: Any
Restrictions:

​Suppressed Magic: Dragons naturally cannot learn magic or cast spells without intense study, training, and effort. As such, dragons cannot take levels in any spellcasting class at 1st level, nor can they multiclass into a spellcasting class, unless they take the feat Draconic Spellcasting. Furthermore, dragons cannot cast spells while they are in their Dragon Form.


​Advancement: Dragons are natural adventurers, and as such they advance by Class Level. Whenever a Dragon levels up, they may choose to either take a class level, or increase their racial HD by 1. A dragon who has met the minimum age requirement, minimum number of class levels, and who’s racial HD equals or exceeds the minimum for the next age category may advance to that age category, receiving all the benefits thereof. A dragon may not have more racial HD than twice the minimum amount for its current age category, or more than 20 racial HD, whichever is smaller.

Durzan
2018-02-05, 12:23 AM
Dragon Clan Templates

To help standardize the clan templates, I have reworked each clan so that they all get the following:


Major Attribute: +4 to one Ability Score
Minor Attribute: +2 to one Ability Score
Attribute Weakness: -2 to one Ability Score
Mobility/Combat Bonus: An ability that can help the dragon with movement and/or combat in some way. Additional movement modes such as burrow would fit under here, as would some spell like abilities.
Combat or Survival Bonus: An ability that helps the dragon out in combat or with some aspect of surviving. Some bonus feats might fit here.
Skill Bonus: Usually bonuses to skills or non-combat checks. Some bonus feats might fit here as well.
Mystical Bonus: Usually spell like ability, Supernatural Ability, or Extraordinary Ability of some kind.
Breath Type(s): The three most common breath weapons of a particular clan... listed in order from most common to least common. You may only choose one of these three Breath Weapon choices.


Dark Claw Clan: The Dark Claw dragons value Cunning and Gile above raw physical might, and as such they tend to make excellent strategists. It was one of their ancient tribal leaders, Xilmund the Great, which united the twelve dragon clans and established the First Empire. Although Xilmund didn't live to see the full might of his empire, it was due to his ruthless cunning and strategies in the conquering of the other 11 tribes which let to the Golden Age of Dragons. Unfortunately Xilmund's work was finally shattered when the Void was opened, and the Great Cataclysm ravaged Illnora. Becoming of their clan name, most Dark Claws bear claws that are naturally jet black in color, unlike the usual white or grey talons that are characteristic of most dragons. If the claws don’t give the dragon’s clan away, then often the unique flecks of green or emerald on their scales would give them away.


Major Attribute: Charisma
Minor Attribute: Wisdom
Attribute Weakness: Constitution
Mobility: Dark Claw dragons gain a 30 ft. Burrow Speed.
Combat/Survival Bonus: Dark Claw dragons may cast Mirror Image as a spell-like ability once per day. Their caster level is equal to the Dark Claw’s total HD.
Skill Bonus: Charismatic Guile — Dark Claws receive+2 Racial Bonus on all Diplomacy, Bluff, and Insight Checks. These skills are always considered class skills for a Dark Claw.
Mystical Bonus: Bend the Truth — When attempting to improve someone’s attitude through Diplomacy, a Dark Claw dragon may make a bluff check opposed by opponent’s Insight check. If successful, the dragon may add a bonus to his diplomacy check equal to 1/2 his total HD. If she fails she takes an equal penalty.
Breath Type(s): Fire, Lightning, or Acid


Whisper Wind: The Whisper Wind Dragons are equal to none when it comes to their ability to control the skies. They pride themselves in their speed, endurance, and agility while in flight. They are known for their hit and run tactics. They can be recognized by their slender build and lighter colored scales. Blue, silver, and white scales are common among the Whisper Wind clan.


Major Attribute: Dexterity
Minor Attribute: Wisdom
Attribute Weakness: Constitution
Mobility: Gifted Fliers — Whisper Winds gain an additional 50 feet of movement speed while flying. These stack with the base dragon stats. In addition, Whisper Winds are treated as though they had a flying maneuverability one step higher than normal.
Combat/Survival Bonus: Flying Bonus Feats —Upon reaching Juvenile age, a Whisper Wind receives a bonus feat from the following list: Improved Flight, Fly-By Attack, Hover, Wingover, or any other feat that can be used while in flight. The dragon must meet the prerequisites for the feat. Upon reaching the age of Young Adult, the dragon may choose another feat from the list.
Skill Bonus: Acrobatic — Whisper Winds receive a+2 Racial Bonus to all Acrobatics and Fly checks.
Mystical Bonus: Cloudwalking (Su) — A Whisper Wind can tread on clouds or fog as though on solid ground. The ability functions continuously but can be negated or resumed at will.
Breath Type(s): Fire, Cold, or Sonic.


Razor Scale Clan: A well balanced and isolated clan, Dragons of the Razor Scale Clan are obsessed with routines. Tough and tenacious, the Razor Scales are extremely competitive in nature… even going so far as to develop a complex set of recreational competitions and games in order to hone their skills in flying, combat, hunting, and other activities. A Razor Scale is always up for a challenge, no matter how ridiculous it may seem. Even among dragons, their scales are abnormally tough… and fairly sharp. Razor Scales tend to have short and stocky builds.


Major Attribute: Constitution
Minor Attribute: Strength
Attribute Weakness: Wisdom
Mobility: Spider Climb (Ex) — A Razor Scale can climb on stone surfaces as though using the spider climb spell.
Combat Bonus: Improved Natural Weapon — Razor Scales receive Improved Natural Weapon as a bonus feat.
Skill Bonus: Endurance — Upon reaching Juvenile age, a Razor Scale receives Endurance as a bonus feat.
Mystical Bonus: Tough Scales— A Razor Scale of Juvenile or older increases their Draconic DR by an additional 5 points.
Breath Type(s): Fire, Acid, or Sonic


Scatter Tooth Clan: The Scatter Tooth clan is the sister clan to the Razor Scales. While they share many of the same characteristics as their sister clan, their love of comfort, food, and farming allows them to stand out. Their desires for a more sedimentary life style led them to develop and maintain some form of agriculture in the harsh realm of Draconia. The Scatter Tooth dragons are more even tempered than their rowdy cousins, and are willing to share their food with those who ask.


Major Attribute: Intelligence
Minor Attribute: Charisma
Attribute Weakness: Strength
Mobility: Scatter Tooth dragons have a burrow speed of 30 ft.
Survival Bonus: Stone Shape — Scatter Tooths may use the Stone Shape spell as a spell like ability 3x per day.
Skill Bonus: One with the Land — Scatter Tooth dragons receive a +2 racial bonus on all Knowledge (Nature) checks, on all Survival Checks, and on Profession (Agriculture) checks.
Mystical Bonus: Speak With Animals — A Scatter Tooth dragon can use Speak With Animals as an at will spell like ability.
Breath Type(s): Fire, Cold, or Lightning.


Firemaw Clan: Fierce, loyal, and tenacious, the Firemaws are a force to be reckoned with in open battle. Members of this clan tend to be the strongest and most fit.


Major Attribute: Strength
Minor Attribute: Constitution
Attribute Weakness: Intelligence
Mobility: Haste — 3x Per Day,A Firemaw may cast Haste on themselves as a spell-like ability.
Combat Bonus: Multiattack — A Firemaw receives Multiattack as a bonus feat.
Skill Bonus: Battle Reflexes — Firemaws receive a +2 racial bonus to initiative and perception checks.
Mystical Bonus: Elemental Shield (Su) — Whenever a Firemaw takes damage from a melee attack, the attacker must make a reflex save or take 1d6 points of elemental damage (same type as their breath weapon, DC is also the same as their Breath Weapon).
Breath Type(s): Fire, Lightning, or Acid.


Arbiter Clan: Charged with the keeping of draconic history, the Arbiters are secretive, wise, and patient in nature. Curiously enough, they boast the ability to memorize and store vast amounts of information in their minds. Unfortunately, the Cataclysm destroyed their physical records before most of them could be memorized, and as such much useful information has been lost over the last few thousand years. The few ancient secrets that survived have been passed down through oral tradition. In the years since the Cataclysm, the Arbiters have been hunted down by other dragons in order to extract what little knowledge could be gleaned from them, pushing them to the brink of extinction. As a result, very few pureblooded Arbiters remain.


Major Attribute: Intelligence
Minor Attribute: Wisdom
Attribute Weakness: Charisma
Mobility: Water Breathing (Ex) — An Arbiter has a swim speed of 60 feet and can breathe underwater indefinitely. They can freely use its breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged (Though a fire breath weapon would instead become super heated steam).
Combat Bonus: Tactical Analysis (Ex) — An Arbiter can use the stored knowledge within his mind to gain a tactical advantage against his opponent. As a swift action, an Arbiter may make a Knowledge Check (The DM determines the DC and the Knowledge Skill rolled) to see if he knows anything about the creature(s) he is fighting. If the check succeeds, the Arbiter may add his intelligence modifier to his attack and damage rolls against that specific creature for the duration of the encounter.
Skill Bonus: Ancient Knowledge (Ex): Arbiters inherit a portion of the knowledge their ancestors have memorized. This inherited knowledge takes the form of a bonus on all knowledge checks equal to 1/2 the Arbiter’s Total HD. An Arbiter can make a knowledge check with a DC higher than 10, even when untrained. In addition, an Arbiter may use the Draconic Knowledge feat 3x per day, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites.
Mystical Bonus: Photographic Memory (Ex): As keepers of knowledge and history, Arbiter dragons have developed a powerful photographic memory, allowing them to memorize information and recall it perfectly at a later time. By making a successful concentration check (Base DC 15), an Arbiter can permanently memorize a single piece of information such as a person’s exact appearance, a memory, a letter, or some other form of information. Some things are easier to memorize (Such as a short message; DC 10), while other things are harder to memorize (Like an entire book; DC 20 or Higher). If they have the Draconic Spellcasting feat and at least one level in a Spellcasting class, an Arbiter may use this ability to instantly memorize spells even if they are unfamiliar with the spell.
Breath Type(s): Fire, Sonic, Lightning


Seer Clan: Like their sister clan, the Arbiters, members of the Seer Clan are patient and wise. Seer Dragons are gifted with the ability to read the thoughts of others, a power thought to be a vestige of old Draconic magic.


Major Attribute: Wisdom
Minor Attribute: Intelligence
Attribute Weakness: Strength
Mobility: Water Breathing (Ex) — A Seer has a swim speed of 60 feet and can breathe underwater indefinitely. They can freely use their breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged (Though a fire breath weapon would instead become super heated steam).
Combat Bonus: Foresight (Su) — A seer dragon occasionally gets brief glimpses of the near future, granting insight on how she should react. Three times per day, a Seer dragon may choose to spend a swift action to get a momentary glimpse into the near future. If she does so, she receives an insight bonus (equal to her wisdom bonus, minimum of +1) to all skill checks, all attack rolls, to reflex saves, and to her AC. The duration of the bonus is a number of rounds equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 round).
Skill Bonus: Read Mind (Ex) — As a swift action, a Seer can read the minds of those they make physical contact with. This ability functions as though the Seer was using the Detect Thoughts spell for 3 or more rounds, except that you can only target those whom you are currently in physical contact with.
Mystical: Vision (Su) — A Seer has the potential to get brief glimpses of a possible future. Once per game session a Seer may make a concentration check (DC 20) as a standard action. If successful, you invoke a momentary trancelike state that accompanies brief glimpses of the future. However, you may or may not actually force anything; the DM decides whether or not this ability manifests. Usually, the higher the concentration check, the more likely you are to receive a vision, and more likely you are to receive a vision with a clear interpretation or meaning, or the more likely you are to receive a vision pertaining to the desired subject. If the ability does manifest, the DM describes brief images, sounds, or words that enter your mind. Visions always speak of things going on in the present, or things that will occur in the near future. Regardless, these visions are often incomplete, symbolic, or vauge in nature, to the point where multiple interpretations are possible, but they do usually prove to be true. This ability can only be successfully used once per game session, or once per day, whichever is greater; any additional attempts made will automatically fail, except by DM discretion.
Breath Type(s): Cold, Lightning, Fire.


Nightshade Clan: Although one of the lesser known and more mysterious Dragon Clans, the Nightshades are elusive in nature, and also rumored to be masters of stealth and trickery rivaling the cunning of even the Dark Claw dragons. They tend to fly and hunt at night, and when they take to the darkened skies are extremely hard to spot. Sophrenia was thought to be member of the Nightshade clan. They can be recognized by their dark scales and slender build. Purple flecks on their scales are often seen as another common feature.


Major Attribute: Dexterity
Minor Attribute: Charisma
Attribute Weakness: Strength
Mobility: Gifted Fliers — Nightshades gain an additional 50 feet of movement speed while flying. These stack with the base dragon stats. In addition, Whisper Winds are treated as though they had a flying maneuverability one step higher than normal.
Combat/Survival Bonus: Flying Bonus Feats —Upon reaching Juvenile age, a Nightshade receives a bonus feat from the following list: Improved Flight, Fly-By Attack, Hover, Wingover, or any other feat that can be used while in flight. The dragon must meet the prerequisites for the feat. Upon reaching the age of Young Adult, the dragon may choose another feat from the list.
Skill Bonus: Stealthy Guile — Nightshades receive a +2 Racial Bonus on all Diplomacy, Insight, and Stealth Checks. These skills are always considered class skills for a Nightshade. In addition, a Nightshade may use the stealth skill while flying, provided they are under the cover of darkness or shadow.
Mystical Bonus: Darkness — Nightshades can cast the spell Darkness as a spell-like ability 3x per day.
Breath Type(s): Fire, Lightning, or Sonic.


Bloodrage Clan: This clan is known for their brashness, short tempers, and their love of a good fight. Flecks of Blood Red often mark their scales, whatever color or build they may have.


Major Attribute: Constitution
Minor Attribute: Strength
Attribute Weakness: Charisma
Mobility: Pounce — When a Bloodrage makes a charge while in Dragon Form, it can follow with a full attack.
Combat Bonus: Rage: A Bloodrage can naturally use the Rage Combat Trick.
Skill Bonus: Intimidating — Bloodrage dragons receive a +4 Racial Bonus to Intimidate Checks.
Mystical Bonus: Bulls Strength — A Bloodrage may cast Bull’s Strength on themselves as a spell-like ability 3x per day.
Breath Type(s): Fire, Lightning, Acid


Hybrids: Players may choose to play a dragon with multiple lineages. If they choose to do so, then they may pick 1 bonus for each slot. The major, minor, and weakness attributes must all be applied to different ability scores.

A dragon needs 3 choices from one clan to show a noticeable resemblance to that clan. In cases where 3 or more choices have been picked from 2 or 3 clans, the dragon is recognizably descended from all of them, but shows the strongest resemblance to the clan they made the most choices from. The Player has a free choice in the case of a tie. If a dragon has more than half it's options (5+) from one clan and no other clan over 3 options, they may pass as a pure-strain member of that clan to anyone who does not witness them displaying one of the mismatched abilities.

Durzan
2018-02-06, 02:53 PM
Reserved for additional information if needed.

And a Bump.

I really would like some feedback.

(Please Examine and Critique Honestly)

Kael_Thor
2018-02-08, 05:03 AM
I like this, a playable dragon is something I have always wanted to try. But there are several things I am wondering about with this race.
Firstly, how will it work with levels, given that it first becomes playable at 2 HD. Would that mean I can only start as this race at level 2? I admit I don't know much about those kinds of rules.

Another question is what system is this for? 3.5? Pathfinder? 5th edition?

I can see a problem with the age categories. If I use my class levels to up my HD, then I can go up in age category, but you also state a minimum age for each category. I have never played a d&d game that went over several years, let alone several hundred years, but I would have to do so in order to 'grow up' as a dragon.

I like the different clans, it's a neat idea that allows for different dragon builds without having the alignment restrictions of normal dragons. There are some clans that I can see are weaker than others. Whisper Wind Clan for instance, is just plain weaker than the Nightshade clan. The nightshade does everything the Whisper Wind does, but more. +2 dex and daytime camouflage is not enough to equalize the two flying focused clans, imo.

I don't like the suppressed magic restriction. I wonder why its there, dragons are magical creatures and in d&d they are natural spell casters, yet yours are not. I suspect there is some kind of fluff/lore reason to explain that, but you haven't given it.

Lastly I will ask if you have heard of the Taninim Draconic Exemplar? It's a racial paragon class that lets you play a full dragon. While your dragons have the advantage of not having the dragon goodies locked behind a class, it might be worth looking at it for inspiration.

Ukimoni
2018-02-14, 12:57 PM
Alright, first of all, WOW this is in-depth. Good job on that. While it is a lot to take in, it is thorough enough to make sense and understand where you're going with it. The clan ideas I like and is an interesting way to go about it and brings some personality to the race. I do wonder, is this specific to a world you created or something else?

Unfortunately, there is NO WAY I could say this deserves a LA +0. True Dragons run an LA +4 on top of a 4HD...as Wrymlings and these are as good if not better than True Dragons from what I've seen. Even if thinking Racial HD aren't as good, True Dragons, if you're dragons have the same skill and saves, get 6 + Int skill points, Pretty good saves and full BAB. Plus you have them have less Racial HD so that's more Class Levels to take, you even made them fly better than True Dragons this race is INSANE. I do appreciate them getting smarter as they get really old while physically weaker instead of...you know just getting stronger like True Dragons.

I like this race and I love this idea, but to be used in 3.5 in needs heavy retooling to be balanced.

Durzan
2018-02-18, 08:59 AM
I like this, a playable dragon is something I have always wanted to try. But there are several things I am wondering about with this race.

Thanks; I will try to answer your questions.


What system is this for? 3.5? Pathfinder? 5th edition?

Edited the OP so that it clarifies that this is a race for d&d 3.x. I did attach a prefix to the thread title that can answer the question (at least to a certain extent anyway), but I wouldn't be surprised if sometimes the prefix goes unnoticed, especially once someone actually enters the thread.

In short, this race was designed to be used alongside my other homebrew material... which involves a number of modifications for D&D 3.5 that makes it easier to play. Some of such changes includes a somewhat simplified skill system and the consolidation of skills (like in pathfinder). Since Pathfinder is based off of dnd 3.5, I would say this is compatible with both 3.5 and Pathfinder, although you might find it easier to adapt it to pathfinder than vanilla 3.5. Adapting it back to vanilla 3.5 would require altering the skill list for the dragon's racial HD to account for the missing 3.5 skills, among other things.


Firstly, how will it work with levels, given that it first becomes playable at 2 HD. Would that mean I can only start as this race at level 2?

That depends largely on your DM. Your ECL (your effective character level) is your Racial HD + Class Levels + Level Adjustment. Since this write up doesn't have a level adjustment (and none of my material will, instead using Racial HD where needed, or balancing the race to be a +0 LA), a young dragon with 2 RHD and no class levels would have an ECL of 2, which means that the dragon is effectively a level 2 character (I say effectively, because stuff dealing with Racial HD is weird in 3.x systems).

A DM could let you start out without any class levels, but since Racial HD (even for a dragon) are often inferior to class levels, you might consider that as being shafted. (though Dragon's with RHD only can be possible exceptions, as they got the best progression in the game, meaning dragons could potentially be somewhat competent at their ECL.)

No, I'd let you start out with at least 1 class level, bumping you up to ECL 3... and thus making you a 3rd level character (unless you wanted to start out without any class levels, that is). At ECL 3, you'd have 2 Dragon HD (very good, though they don't come with class features), and 1 Class Level. I would be willing to suspect that this is what quite a few DM's would also do, although YMMV.


I admit I don't know much about those kinds of rules.

When in doubt, consult the SRD (and your DM): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm


I can see a problem with the age categories. If I use my class levels to up my HD, then I can go up in age category, but you also state a minimum age for each category. I have never played a d&d game that went over several years, let alone several hundred years, but I would have to do so in order to 'grow up' as a dragon.

This is intentional (for the most part), but not due to mechanical reasons... its more because of lore reasons. Dragons live long lives, and chances are, you are not playing a dragon who is fully matured (yet).

That being said, while I designed the race so that while you can start playing as a young dragon (for those that want that option), I intended for dragon characters to largely be Juvenile or Young Adults. Statistics for older or younger dragons are there for the purposes of DM's who wish to create Dragon NPC's or for campaigns where you actually want to play as older/younger dragons, or in the unlikely event that your gaming group actually wishes to do a long term campaign that takes place over hundreds of years. (The core races have age categories as well, though not as well defined)

Honestly, this is the sort of problem that is ultimately up to the DM to deal with. He can easily say you start your growth spurt early or whatever. When it comes to homebrew, rule zero is your friend.


I like the different clans, it's a neat idea that allows for different dragon builds without having the alignment restrictions of normal dragons. There are some clans that I can see are weaker than others. Whisper Wind Clan for instance, is just plain weaker than the Nightshade clan. The nightshade does everything the Whisper Wind does, but more. +2 dex and daytime camouflage is not enough to equalize the two flying focused clans, imo.

Thanks. I will acknowledge that some clans might be weaker than others; thats going to be unavoidable.

I fail to see how The Whisper Wind and Nightshade Clans are seriously unequal: Both have a net +2 bonus to their ability scores; both have Gifted Fliers, Areal Training (two bonus feats that deal with flying),and a variation of Camouflage; Both have a +2 racial bonus to two skills. Mechanically, they are roughly equal in capabilities. The only differences are their ability stats (net +2 Dex for Whisper Wind, which could arguably be more versatile; net +2 Cha for Nightshade), where the racial bonuses are being placed (Fly and Acrobatics for Whisper Wind; Diplomacy and Insight for Nightshades), and the slight differences in camouflage ability. The Whisper Wind is slightly more of a Dex build, while the Nightshade is slightly more of a Cha build. Could you explain a bit more in detail?

Nightshades originated as a clan of halfbreeds between the Whisperwind and the Dark Claw, and as such, inherited some traits from each clan.


I don't like the suppressed magic restriction. I wonder why its there, dragons are magical creatures and in d&d they are natural spell casters, yet yours are not. I suspect there is some kind of fluff/lore reason to explain that, but you haven't given it.

In the setting this was made for, Dragons are more like the dragons from Eragon, IE they having powerful magic but are usually unable to reliably tap into that energy, save it be for their breath weapons and certain other abilities. Long ago, Dragons DID have the power to use magic, but they made one fatal and forbidden mistake which screwed up the world so badly that it tore the world asunder. For their folly, the gods tried to strip their ability to use magic (but only partially succeeded) and banished the dragon race into the pocket dimension of Draconia. Now, they endure a harsh life in a world of seemingly endless famine and drought, shadows of their former selves.


Lastly I will ask if you have heard of the Taninim Draconic Exemplar? It's a racial paragon class that lets you play a full dragon. While your dragons have the advantage of not having the dragon goodies locked behind a class, it might be worth looking at it for inspiration.

I think I heard of it, but I don't think I've actually seen the class itself. I'll consider looking at it.

Durzan
2018-02-21, 02:38 PM
Alright, first of all, WOW this is in-depth. Good job on that. While it is a lot to take in, it is thorough enough to make sense and understand where you're going with it. The clan ideas I like and is an interesting way to go about it and brings some personality to the race. I do wonder, is this specific to a world you created or something else?

Thank you for the reply, I enjoy getting feedback.
Yes, this is specific to a world I am working on. Namely: Illnora, which is the world that the Dragon Master RP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498252-The-Dragon-Master-Magic-101-OOC) took place in.



Unfortunately, there is NO WAY I could say this deserves a LA +0. True Dragons run an LA +4 on top of a 4HD...as Wrymlings and these are as good if not better than True Dragons from what I've seen. Even if thinking Racial HD aren't as good, True Dragons, if you're dragons have the same skill and saves, get 6 + Int skill points, Pretty good saves and full BAB. Plus you have them have less Racial HD so that's more Class Levels to take, you even made them fly better than True Dragons this race is INSANE. I do appreciate them getting smarter as they get really old while physically weaker instead of...you know just getting stronger like True Dragons.

Honestly, if I were regularly doing RAW 3.5e I probably would give the race at least an LA +4 or +5, so I can agree with you on that. However, I didn't design this for use alongside RAW 3.5; rather it was supposed to be used alongside a heavily homebrewed 3.5-based system, which doesn't use LA at all for balance purposes. Thus, they are not really a LA +0 race, but rather a race that exists in a 3.5e system where LA doesn't exist as a concept.

I basically thought that Racial HD are a better way to show increased power over the standard Races, without having to use LA (a form of hyper level inflation) to compensate. After all, while Dragon HD give decent BAB, Health and other Benefits, it grants no class features. The better flying skill, along with the free Metabreath Feat, was put into place to grant a form of compensation for the fact that dragons cannot cast spells in their natural form, and are required to take a feat in order to learn magic.

I adjusted the core race and several popular LA +1 or +2 races accordingly; namely the Drow, Tiefling, and Aassamar.


I like this race and I love this idea, but to be used in 3.5 in needs heavy retooling to be balanced.

I would agree that if I were to use this alongside RAW 3.5, it would need heavy retooling. Not to say that it still doesn't need some work or anything of that nature, but that balancing against RAW 3.5 was not the intended goal, although it can be used as a general measuring stick.

At this point in time I am far more concerned about balancing the clans against one another, and making sure that the race as a whole is functional, than I am against balancing the dragons against other races, although that is a valid concern that will need to be addressed at some point. (Mainly humans, because Humans are the only humanoid race that exists on Illnora at this time).

IF you were to give it a LA, what LA would you give it? As mentioned above, I would lean towards +4 or +5 as is, but it would theoretically need to be higher or lower given the circumstances.

Edit: Kick to the rear to Bump it up.

Durzan
2018-02-26, 04:00 PM
Boot to the rear to bump it again.

One more bump.

Keep in mind the context that I am trying to use RAW as a measuring stick, but I am not actually trying to balance against RAW. I am trying to simplify and streamline things (Compare the Advancement rules for an Illnoran Dragon with those in the Draconomicon) as well as write my own homebrew into it. Thus, I designed this race with the intention of doing all in my power to get rid of Level Adjustment as a concept within my games, as they are sloppily implemented and only hinder characters in the long run. All races I create will have no LA, and I will balance them accordingly. Racial HD already adjust the ECL of characters and provide some of the statistical benefits of Levels, so it isnt that much of a stretch to say that RHD are levels with the race's unique special qualities and attacks acting as equivalent "class features." Thus saying "This isn't a/shouldn't be a LA +0 Race" isn't exactly helpful given the context of the situation, and furthermore it is kinda stating the obvious.

With that being said, I do enjoy hearing both the strengths and weaknesses of my designs. Pointing out flaws is part of why I asked for critiquing, but such flaws aren't very helpful without presenting a possible way to fix it. I am inclined to respond to your feedback, comments, or concerns, so don't feel shy.

I want Illnoran Dragons to be well rounded with both strengths and weaknesses.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/091/314/60d.jpg

Need moar... feedback.

And responses to my responses.

Drive by critiques only help so much. Almost every post I make (except when the post is vauge enough with little to no actual stats involved) gets little to no commentary.

I like discussing things. I respond to other's PEACH for clarification, and to try bouncing ideas around. I can't do that without regular responses that go back and forth.

whoiam
2018-02-26, 05:11 PM
Aw, but drive-by is the best form of critique!

In single-class games, I don't see this as being especially powerful. The main reason being that the T1/T2 classes are invariably casters dependent on 1 or more mental stats (and on sticking with the class and spellcasting-advancing PRCs as long as possible) for their power. Whereas playing an Ilnoran Dragon would a) bar you from advancing spellcasting on your first HD and b)require you to sink 2-5 levels (depending on class and clan) into racial HD to play without a penalty to your casting stat. If you pick the right combination then 5 levels gets you a +4 to your casting stat. This not only puts you anywhere from 1-3 spell levels behind a plain LA+0 race caster (depending on class and whether you went for break-even or a bonus), but is worse value than some of the templates in the SRD (ex. Half-Celestial, LA+4, +4 Wis, +4 Cha, SR, DR, 3 energy resistances, SLAs, assorted extras)

Now there are a lot of high-Str combat builds that this could work well with (a Firemaw dragon gets +4 Str with a 2HD investment, and +12 with a 3HD investment, which isn't that bad of a trade). But with most of the classes that stand to benefit from that being T3-T5, that's not so big of a game breaker. (+12 Str on your Warblade isn't going to render the party Wizard obsolete, after all, but +12 Int on your Wizard could well do the reverse.)

In Gestalt/Tristalt/etc games... Well, it's not *so* bad for casters there. They'll probably only be 1 caster level and 1 feat behind an equivalent human (since one of their 'sides' can advance Dragon while one of the others enters a casting class at ECL2). It's probably still worse than some monster races, monster classes or stacking templates (if only because of the lost level).

Also, in Gestalt games this would change from a good choice for combat classes to a great one. Probably still not the best possible combination you could make, but it'll make one sweet Hulking Hurler gestalt build...

(And no, I haven't tried assessing the clans against one another.)



*grin* And on a more personal note, it's nice to see the Seer Clan got a name, but I miss the power incontinence that Dian had on her touch telepathy.

Durzan
2018-02-27, 09:02 PM
Aw, but drive-by is the best form of critique!

LOL. I was wondering if/when you were gonna drop by.



In single-class games, I don't see this as being especially powerful. The main reason being that the T1/T2 classes are invariably casters dependent on 1 or more mental stats (and on sticking with the class and spellcasting-advancing PRCs as long as possible) for their power. Whereas playing an Ilnoran Dragon would a) bar you from advancing spellcasting on your first HD and b)require you to sink 2-5 levels (depending on class and clan) into racial HD to play without a penalty to your casting stat. If you pick the right combination then 5 levels gets you a +4 to your casting stat. This not only puts you anywhere from 1-3 spell levels behind a plain LA+0 race caster (depending on class and whether you went for break-even or a bonus), but is worse value than some of the templates in the SRD (ex. Half-Celestial, LA+4, +4 Wis, +4 Cha, SR, DR, 3 energy resistances, SLAs, assorted extras)

Nice analysis. Could balance out the caster issue with a racial feat that allows a dragon to count its Racial HD towards its caster level.


Now there are a lot of high-Str combat builds that this could work well with (a Firemaw dragon gets +4 Str with a 2HD investment, and +12 with a 3HD investment, which isn't that bad of a trade). But with most of the classes that stand to benefit from that being T3-T5, that's not so big of a game breaker. (+12 Str on your Warblade isn't going to render the party Wizard obsolete, after all, but +12 Int on your Wizard could well do the reverse.)

That was definitely one of the intentions. Illnoran Dragons make great bruisers.


In Gestalt/Tristalt/etc games... Well, it's not *so* bad for casters there. They'll probably only be 1 caster level and 1 feat behind an equivalent human (since one of their 'sides' can advance Dragon while one of the others enters a casting class at ECL2). It's probably still worse than some monster races, monster classes or stacking templates (if only because of the lost level).

Also, in Gestalt games this would change from a good choice for combat classes to a great one. Probably still not the best possible combination you could make, but it'll make one sweet Hulking Hurler gestalt build...

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't really considered it from the Gestalt angle.

(
And no, I haven't tried assessing the clans against one another.)

*grin* And on a more personal note, it's nice to see the Seer Clan got a name, but I miss the power incontinence that Dian had on her touch telepathy.

Of course I added in the Seer clan... it was too good an idea to pass up!

Dian's lack of control over her telepathy was more something to be roleplayed than a mechanical issue. I'd have little to no problem portraying that aspect of her in a D&D game.

whoiam
2018-02-27, 09:38 PM
LOL. I was wondering if/when you were gonna drop by.
Wonder no more! :smalltongue:



Nice analysis. Could balance out the caster issue with a racial feat that allows a dragon to count its Racial HD towards its caster level.
Stack towards Spellcasting rather than Caster Level and that would probably be more of a help. I'm sure there's already feats out there for boosting Caster Level if it's below your ECL; problem is that boosting CL alone doesn't give you access to the spell slots you need (or to higher spell levels).

I'd be tempted to go to a 3 feat system for draconic spellcasters:
1) You can cast at all
2) Each Dragon HD stacks with a caster class of your choice for the purposes of advancing spellcasting. You must have a relevant class for it to stack with, and this cannot boost your your effective level in a casting class beyond your ECL.
3) You can cast in dragon form (Natural Magic for Illnoran Dragons, basically).

So if you invest 2 feats you're equivalent to a human/elven caster of the same ECL as you, and with the third feat you can cast in dragon form.



Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't really considered it from the Gestalt angle.
Most D&D dragon games are either gestalt (monster up one side, class up another) or using Monster Classes. Mainly because the LA and HD requirements are so high the PCs won't have any interesting abilities until around the epic levels otherwise...


Of course I added in the Seer clan... it was too good an idea to pass up!

Dian's lack of control over her telepathy was more something to be roleplayed than a mechanical issue. I'd have little to no problem portraying that aspect of her in a D&D game.

Speaking of Dian, she was an Arbiter/Seer hybrid. Did you have rules for hybrid dragons in mind? Or are people sticking to one clan from now on?

Durzan
2018-02-28, 09:36 AM
Wonder no more! :smalltongue:

Stack towards Spellcasting rather than Caster Level and that would probably be more of a help. I'm sure there's already feats out there for boosting Caster Level if it's below your ECL; problem is that boosting CL alone doesn't give you access to the spell slots you need (or to higher spell levels).

I'd be tempted to go to a 3 feat system for draconic spellcasters:
1) You can cast at all
2) Each Dragon HD stacks with a caster class of your choice for the purposes of advancing spellcasting. You must have a relevant class for it to stack with, and this cannot boost your your effective level in a casting class beyond your ECL.
3) You can cast in dragon form (Natural Magic for Illnoran Dragons, basically).

So if you invest 2 feats you're equivalent to a human/elven caster of the same ECL as you, and with the third feat you can cast in dragon form.

Most D&D dragon games are either gestalt (monster up one side, class up another) or using Monster Classes. Mainly because the LA and HD requirements are so high the PCs won't have any interesting abilities until around the epic levels otherwise...

Speaking of Dian, she was an Arbiter/Seer hybrid. Did you have rules for hybrid dragons in mind? Or are people sticking to one clan from now on?

Three feat could work; it makes an excellent feat tree. The third feat is a bit iffy lore-wise, but mechanically it would make a good mid to late-game feat.

The use of Gestalt with Monster Classes makes sense.

I don't have any specific rules for Clan Hybrids though I can work something out on a case by case basis. For Dian... A couple solutions come to mind. One Idea I had was to make the Photographic Memory thing a feat. Then I could give it to Dian for free and fluff it that she has Arbiter blood flowing through her veins as well. Or we could have her swap out some of her other Seer Clan features an replace them with Arbiter features.

whoiam
2018-03-03, 04:47 PM
I don't have any specific rules for Clan Hybrids though I can work something out on a case by case basis. For Dian... A couple solutions come to mind. One Idea I had was to make the Photographic Memory thing a feat. Then I could give it to Dian for free and fluff it that she has Arbiter blood flowing through her veins as well. Or we could have her swap out some of her other Seer Clan features an replace them with Arbiter features.

Well, it's been a while since I did much in the way of homebrew, but...

What I'd be tempted to do would be to come up with a way of homogenising the various clans, so it's easier to mix and match between them (for making hybrids or mongrels). For instance:



Each clan gets the following:
Major Attribute - +4 to 1 attribute
Minor Attribute - +2 to 1 attribute
Weakness - -2 to 1 attribute

Combat or Mobility Bonus
Combat or Survival Bonus
Skill Bonus
Mystical Bonus

Breath Type(s)
Bonus Feat List



Major Attribute: Int
Minor Attribute: Wis
Weakness: Cha
Combat/Movement: Swim 60'
Combat/Survival: Water Breathing
Skill: Ancient Knowledge
Mystical: Photographic Memory
Breath: Any
Bonus Feats: [TBC]



Major Attribute: Wis
Minor Attribute: Int
Weakness: Str
Combat/Movement: [TBC]
Combat/Survival: Foresight
Skill: Read Mind
Mystical: Vision
Breath: Any
Bonus Feats: [TBC]


Then making hybrids is just a matter of making up a hybrid clan by picking one item for each slot from the parent clans. For instance, Dian would end up as something along the lines of:

Major Attribute: Int - Arbiter
Minor Attribute: Wis - Arbiter
Weakness: Str - Seer
Combat/Movement: Swim 60' - Arbiter
Combat/Survival: Foresight - Seer
Skill: Read Mind - Seer
Mystic: Photographic Memory - Arbiter
Breath: Any - either
Bonus Feats: Who knows? - either


Then I'd drop the 'Sin' clan and let people do Mongrels using the hybrid rules and as many source clans as they like.

A dragon needs 3 choices from one clan to show a noticeable resemblance to that clan. In cases where 3 or more choices have been picked from 2 or 3 clans, the dragon is recognisably descended from all of them, but shows the strongest resemblance to the clan they made the most choices from (so Dian would resemble both an Arbiter and a Seer, but looks closer to being an Arbiter as that's ahead 4 choices to 3). Player has a free choice in the case of a tie. If a dragon has more than half it's options (5+) from one clan and no other clan over 3 options, they may pass as a pure-strain member of that clan to anyone who does not witness them displaying one of the mismatched abilities.

Then it's just a matter of making sure the choices in each category are more or less balanced between the different clans.

...Oh, and to stop people stacking bonuses, Major, Minor and Weakness all need to apply to different attributes. So Dian gets free choice of Weakness between Str and Cha, but can't go Int/Int or Wis/Wis for her bonuses, no matter how much better a +6 to her casting stat would be...

Durzan
2018-03-26, 03:38 PM
Sounds like a good starting place for a modular clan template. Not much else to say on the matter until I finish writing up the other clans accordingly.


Well, it's been a while since I did much in the way of homebrew, but...

What I'd be tempted to do would be to come up with a way of homogenising the various clans, so it's easier to mix and match between them (for making hybrids or mongrels). For instance:



Each clan gets the following:
Major Attribute - +4 to 1 attribute
Minor Attribute - +2 to 1 attribute
Weakness - -2 to 1 attribute

Combat or Mobility Bonus
Combat or Survival Bonus
Skill Bonus
Mystical Bonus

Breath Type(s)
Bonus Feat List



Major Attribute: Int
Minor Attribute: Wis
Weakness: Cha
Combat/Movement: Swim 60'
Combat/Survival: Water Breathing
Skill: Ancient Knowledge
Mystical: Photographic Memory
Breath: Any
Bonus Feats: [TBC]



Major Attribute: Wis
Minor Attribute: Int
Weakness: Str
Combat/Movement: [TBC]
Combat/Survival: Foresight
Skill: Read Mind
Mystical: Vision
Breath: Any
Bonus Feats: [TBC]


Then making hybrids is just a matter of making up a hybrid clan by picking one item for each slot from the parent clans. For instance, Dian would end up as something along the lines of:

Major Attribute: Int - Arbiter
Minor Attribute: Wis - Arbiter
Weakness: Str - Seer
Combat/Movement: Swim 60' - Arbiter
Combat/Survival: Foresight - Seer
Skill: Read Mind - Seer
Mystic: Photographic Memory - Arbiter
Breath: Any - either
Bonus Feats: Who knows? - either


Then I'd drop the 'Sin' clan and let people do Mongrels using the hybrid rules and as many source clans as they like.

A dragon needs 3 choices from one clan to show a noticeable resemblance to that clan. In cases where 3 or more choices have been picked from 2 or 3 clans, the dragon is recognisably descended from all of them, but shows the strongest resemblance to the clan they made the most choices from (so Dian would resemble both an Arbiter and a Seer, but looks closer to being an Arbiter as that's ahead 4 choices to 3). Player has a free choice in the case of a tie. If a dragon has more than half it's options (5+) from one clan and no other clan over 3 options, they may pass as a pure-strain member of that clan to anyone who does not witness them displaying one of the mismatched abilities.

Then it's just a matter of making sure the choices in each category are more or less balanced between the different clans.

...Oh, and to stop people stacking bonuses, Major, Minor and Weakness all need to apply to different attributes. So Dian gets free choice of Weakness between Str and Cha, but can't go Int/Int or Wis/Wis for her bonuses, no matter how much better a +6 to her casting stat would be...


Quick question... why do you have a net +4 bonus for the clan modifiers? I was targeting a net +2 bonus. Were you compensating for a general weakness that they have?

whoiam
2018-03-26, 05:41 PM
It was a combination of my liking the major bonus/minor bonus dynamic, and not putting too much thought into the actual numbers because it was only meant to be a quick example :smallsmile:

Durzan
2018-03-28, 01:52 PM
It was a combination of my liking the major bonus/minor bonus dynamic, and not putting too much thought into the actual numbers because it was only meant to be a quick example :smallsmile:

Ah. Makes sense.

I updated the Dragon Clans entry, as I finished retooling them in a similar fashion to Whoiam suggested (See the Second Post). Haven't included a second weakness, though I am seriously considering it.

I am down to 9 clans now... when the original goal was to have twelve of them. I am currently thinking of one that would have an ice theme, but other than that, I am out of ideas. Suggestions would be welcome.

Durzan
2018-03-30, 10:11 AM
Hello? Any additional thoughts, concerns, or suggestions? Especially now that the Dragon Clans have been updated?

(Its weird that my posts don't get that much feedback after the first couple of posts. I update and change my ideas based on feedback, so constant responses are very helpful)

Kael_Thor
2018-04-07, 09:32 AM
Hello? Any additional thoughts, concerns, or suggestions? Especially now that the Dragon Clans have been updated?

(Its weird that my posts don't get that much feedback after the first couple of posts. I update and change my ideas based on feedback, so constant responses are very helpful)

Don't worry, you aren't the only one who isn't getting as much feedback as you want. It sucks, but not much we can do about that unfortunately.


That said, now that I actually know you have updated this, I'll take a look again. Please note that I have no knowledge of the world your race is based on, so I can only judge this based on what I read here. Yes, I could read up on the setting, but I'm too lazy for that. Besides judging this purely on what you have written out here has some merit, yes?

First note: on the suppressed magic restriction. Does that work on psionics or just magic. And if just magic, does it work on all magic or say just arcane magic? I will admit I haven't read or seen Eragon, so I have no idea how the dragons operate there.

Secondly: I like the template you added for the clans, makes things nice, orderly and I suspect easier to balance as well.

Let's go over the clans themselves then:


Mystical Bonus: Bend the Truth — When attempting to improve someone’s attitude through Diplomacy, a Dark Claw dragon may make a bluff check opposed by opponent’s Insight check. If successful, the dragon may add a bonus to his diplomacy check equal to 1/2 his total HD. If she fails she takes an equal penalty.

Oh, I like this one, very nice fluff to be able to use bluff to add to a diplomacy roll, but get a penalty if you fail. I might use something similar as a house rule when I'm DMing.


Mobility: Haste — 3x Per Day,A Firemaw may cast Haste on themselves as a spell-like ability.

This is by far the most powerful mobility ability any of the clans gain. I'm surprised actually, given how strong Haste is. While I get why the Firemaws get this, they are supposed to be the fighting specialists, this does outshine the other movement abilities. I mean, burrow speed is nice, as is better flight speed and maneuverability and pounce is very strong too, but haste gives so much more than just more speed. If I was to play as one of these, I would almost pick the Firemaw just for that option.


Mobility: Water Breathing (Ex) — An Arbiter has a swim speed of 60 feet and can breathe underwater indefinitely. They can freely use its breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged (Though a fire breath weapon would instead become super heated steam).

This is the first of the movement abilities I don't think fit with the clan's 'feel'. Unfortunately I don't have a better suggestion. I just don't feel that being basically librarians gives better swimming ability. How about a short range teleport/blink, and fluff it to be because they know some secret about time and space that they can exploit?


Combat Bonus: Tactical Analysis (Ex) — An Arbiter can use the stored knowledge within his mind to gain a tactical advantage against his opponent. As a swift action, an Arbiter may make a Knowledge Check (The DM determines the DC and the Knowledge Skill rolled) to see if he knows anything about the creature(s) he is fighting. If the check succeeds, the Arbiter may add his intelligence modifier to his attack and damage rolls against that specific creature for the duration of the encounter.

Now this on the other hand fits very nicely with the clan's theme. I like it.


Mobility: Water Breathing (Ex) — A Seer has a swim speed of 60 feet and can breathe underwater indefinitely. They can freely use their breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged (Though a fire breath weapon would instead become super heated steam).

Again, I don't feel this fits the clan's theme, but again, what kind of movement ability fits with a clan of telepaths? Maybe an increase to dodge AC against melee attacks as the Seer reads the surface thoughts of the attacker? Not really a movement thing per say, but that's the best I can come up with on the spot.


Mobility: Gifted Fliers — Nightshades gain an additional 50 feet of movement speed while flying. These stack with the base dragon stats. In addition, Whisper Winds are treated as though they had a flying maneuverability one step higher than normal.

I spotted a typo. My guess its supposed to say: "In addition, Nightshades are treated as thought they had a flying maneuverability one step higher than normal."


Skill Bonus: Stealthy Guile — Nightshades receive a +2 Racial Bonus on all Diplomacy, Insight, and Stealth Checks. These skills are always considered class skills for a Nightshade. In addition, a Nightshade may use the stealth skill while flying, provided they are under the cover of darkness or shadow.

I like this, I can see the ability to be stealthed while flying as very useful in certain builds.


Hybrids: Players may choose to play a dragon with multiple lineages. If they choose to do so, then they may pick 1 bonus for each slot. The major, minor, and weakness attributes must all be applied to different ability scores.

A dragon needs 3 choices from one clan to show a noticeable resemblance to that clan. In cases where 3 or more choices have been picked from 2 or 3 clans, the dragon is recognizably descended from all of them, but shows the strongest resemblance to the clan they made the most choices from. The Player has a free choice in the case of a tie. If a dragon has more than half it's options (5+) from one clan and no other clan over 3 options, they may pass as a pure-strain member of that clan to anyone who does not witness them displaying one of the mismatched abilities.

This is a nice addition, at least I think its an addition from last time, I can't remember it :P
Being able to essentially customize your dragon like this is quite nice and opens up many options both for builds and for RP. Thumbs up!

For the most part, I like it. I still have some gripes, like the magic restriction and the age progression, but I understand them being there. A dragon is supposed to have a long life and it would be kind of strange for it to grow up as quickly as others.

Questions I would have to clear up with my DM aside, such as the ECL and age issue(I don't like Level Adjustment as a mechanic either), my verdict for this is that its a nicely crafted race of playable dragons. Balance of numbers I will leave to those with more experience and skill with such things, but flavor I like, my ignorance of the setting again being noted.
If I was going to play a Illnoran dragon, I would either play a melee focused Firemaw, a sneak attack focused Nightshade or a hybrid of the two clans.

However I must admit I would probably play a Taninim Draconic Exemplar instead if I was to play a dragon. While yours are vastly better in terms of flavor and lore, and much easier to get a grasp on in terms of rules, I like playing casters too much and its much easier to build a caster dragon using Taninim. That is if I was playing a caster dragon. If I was playing a non-caster dragon though, then I would probably choose a Illnoran dragon instead.

That said, I might actually like this race more for building NPCs than PCs. I think your dragons could make for some interesting, different dragon encounters. The way you set up the templates even makes it relatively simple to make entirely new clans as well. The more I think on it, the more I want to add in a nest of Illnoran dragons into my campaign. Perhaps a small wandering clan from overseas...hmm...the wheels are churning in my head.

Anyway, I don't have much else to contribute in terms of criticism and feedback other than what I have already said. I hope you get at least something useful from my ramblings and my apologies for not answering your message earlier.