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View Full Version : DM Help Trying to assemble an "Old God" pantheon for a Disney-inspired world...



RickAllison
2018-02-20, 02:19 PM
I have been working on a world for the past two months that I'm really excited about, set in roughly a 16th/17th Century Europe with various stories aged up or down to fit the time frame. Some stories have already occurred by the time when the PCs would play; Snow White has grandchildren now, the shoe fit Cinderella long enough back that the Fairy Godmother has started prodding into other fairies' business, and Maleficent just wrought a path of chaos to foil the attempt to awaken Aurora. That part I have down for the most part. What i am having difficulty with is inspiration for various pantheons.

Two were easy. The Olympians are known to exist, and they are giants. They have remained relatively insular however, as they derive power from a stone atop the mountain and they are weakened and become mortal if separated from it for too long (that last part is only known to a very secretive subset of the population). The Norse gods are ascended humans who fought the Myth-Kings of legend, and derive power from the honored dead who believe in them; there are many who deny the existence of these gods, as their influence is much more subtle than the Olympians. In the last millennium or so, a newer religion has also taken root, following the so-called "God of Blood", and whose worship is taken in so many directions. While this deity does not communicate with his worshippers openly, his works through both healing and smiting are well-documented. Philosophical differences heavily divide the followers, with the primary split being whether the Blood-King is primarily for the sanctity of blood as life force and thus emphasize healing and protection as well as mercy, or whether he is about crushing his enemies and so are warlike. I'll also be using the Celtic gods for the old-fashioned elvish communities, and use other pantheons where appropriate.

The pantheon I can't work out is that of a set of "Old Gods", powerful beings that have existed since time immemorial, and worshipped more out of fear of reverence of power than for aid. I have four that can fit a few domains. King Triton represents the sea, and primarily offers the Tempest domain to protect the worthy in his storms. Oberon is the Myth-King of the venerable Tree-Lords and is primarily Nature-oriented. Death is fulfilled by the King on the Mountain, Chernabog, who also happens to be the only one of these deities that grants power rather than just being a power source for properly sympathetic clerics. The Firebird is the final one I have, a force of destruction that incinerates all in its path when it awakens. I would like to expand my registrar for this pantheon, so that all domains are represented.

Lapak
2018-02-20, 03:40 PM
While he’s not purely European, there’s enough cross-cultural influence and feeling of antiquity that I’d suggest a god from off the edge of your map for War: I recommend Montu. Born of Ra’s blazing wrath, the god of war is the sole survivor of the Egyptian pantheon. The decline of their kingdom and the rise of the Olympians let to a final battle of all against all as the gods went to war against themselves, seeking to gain dominance in the afterlife through conquest in this one. They fell one by one and were entombed, save for the god of war. Montu grew mightier the longer the war raged and was by the end of it too powerful to die and take what might have been his place as the emperor of the next world. Left alone save for the mummies of his pantheon, he rules over internal conflict through his experience then and external conflict as a perpetual stranger in the lands that rose in !Egypt’s place.

Edit: missed the ‘Disney-influenced’ aspect, obviously. Apologies.

DavidSh
2018-02-20, 04:48 PM
I think you have to include Ub Iwerks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ub_Iwerks), as a primary creator.

And have you checked out Lord Dunsany's writings for examples of layers of pantheons?

Joe the Rat
2018-02-23, 09:28 AM
I'm operating on the assumption of 5e domains (Tempest being a keying point there).
I will leave some of these associations as an exercise for the readers.

Life - Since it balances nicely with the Firebird, the Green Lady (playing off the Spring Sprite. Also, Moana.) - Life, rebirth, regeneration. There's a lot of interplay here between Life and Nature - to the point that you might go to Titania if you don't need them for Faerie Royalty. King-of-Elks is a companion spirit, who acts as a protector. In the distant land of Ghibli, the roles are reversed: The Elk is the Life spirit, the Girl its protector.

Knowledge - The Owl. Patron of Hermits, anachronistic wizards, and talking animals. It is said it lives in a Great Tree where all the knowledge of the world is kept. Apply any Library(and Lighthouse) of Alexandria, Knowledge without Wisdom, and Avatar the Last Airbender themes you like.

War - Generally has negative connotations, and hard to peg. If this were Runequest, I'd suggest a Duck. You could adapt the Horned God, since he's got that whole "building an army" thing going via Cauldron of Zombie Production. Unless the Firebird's destructive nature is a War theme, in which case I'd suggest:

Belobog - slavic light and life deity, counterpart to Chernabog. To fit your Disney theme, associated with boring hazy luminary processions.

Trickery - For the Old Gods, trickery is about the clever hero, the fool who fools, the one who succeeds through craft and cunning rather than might or magic. Borrowing from Jack of Fables (oh there's some irony), We have the Prince-of-Rodents, who appears in many tales under many names. The Brave Tailor. The Street Rat. Jacques the Mouse. Jack of the Beanstalk fame (also a giant killer). A couple of different highly unpopular rabbit stories. And so on.
Puck and Anansi are also viable.

(Arcana) - Yen Sid, the First Sorcerer. The mortal who created the first spells, and was raised to godhood. Presents a genial face to others, but is a dour and demanding deity, with a wicked sense of humor. Has been known to let real magic slip into the world hidden in "fake" magic tomes.
Prince-of-Rodents once stole some of his magic, with messy consequences.

(Forge) - May not be an appropriate domain. If so, try to apply Gyro Gearloose in an Archimedian theme. A less villainous Mechanicles.

(Grave) - Also tricky, due to lack of a character dying being a good thing. You need some sort of graveyard-watching entity. The Spirits of Notre Dame, somehow.

Friv
2018-02-23, 06:33 PM
The pantheon I can't work out is that of a set of "Old Gods", powerful beings that have existed since time immemorial, and worshipped more out of fear of reverence of power than for aid. I have four that can fit a few domains. King Triton represents the sea, and primarily offers the Tempest domain to protect the worthy in his storms. Oberon is the Myth-King of the venerable Tree-Lords and is primarily Nature-oriented. Death is fulfilled by the King on the Mountain, Chernabog, who also happens to be the only one of these deities that grants power rather than just being a power source for properly sympathetic clerics. The Firebird is the final one I have, a force of destruction that incinerates all in its path when it awakens. I would like to expand my registrar for this pantheon, so that all domains are represented.

A few more Old Gods:
Te Fiti, the Mistress of Life
Chaos, the Master of Trickery (http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos)
Supai, the Eternal Night (http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Supai) (maybe too much like Chernobog?)

digiman619
2018-02-24, 03:39 AM
War - Generally has negative connotations, and hard to peg. If this were Runequest, I'd suggest a Duck. You could adapt the Horned God, since he's got that whole "building an army" thing going via Cauldron of Zombie Production.

I don't know if you're aware, but Donald Duck has occasional anger issues (https://media1.tenor.com/images/97271eef6638be8a8ce291deaef9be03/tenor.gif?itemid=7619214), so he could totally be a war god. Especially if he's in his Papernik/Duck Avenger (http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/The_Duck_Avenger) persona.

Telonius
2018-02-24, 11:11 AM
King Leonidas, Lord of All Animals. Rules over the mystic Isle of Naboombu.

Brian, minor god, patron of the Leprechauns.

The Protector, guardian of children. Always depicted as a female with an umbrella.

For the Forge, you may be looking for a Goddess: Gadget Hackwrench.

(Side note: holy cow people, I know this is the internet, but seriously, Rule 34 within the first two lines of image results? :smalleek:)

Joe the Rat
2018-02-25, 12:42 AM
I don't know if you're aware, but Donald Duck has occasional anger issues (https://media1.tenor.com/images/97271eef6638be8a8ce291deaef9be03/tenor.gif?itemid=7619214), so he could totally be a war god. Especially if he's in his Papernik/Duck Avenger (http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/The_Duck_Avenger) persona.

Hence going with a duck, but Anthropomorphic ducks are an actual race in RuneQuest.

digiman619
2018-02-25, 02:14 AM
Hence going with a duck, but Anthropomorphic ducks are an actual race in RuneQuest.

Yeah, but Savage Species had rules for Anthropomorphic Eagles, Hawks, Owls, & Ravens, so making an Anthro duck race isn't too difficult. Besides, it wouldn't be the first time that a god has a description that doesn't match any known race in the setting.

GentlemanVoodoo
2018-02-25, 04:18 PM
If Disney inspired for this setting, the demon from A Night on Baal Mountain in Fantasia comes to mind. Strangely I can see some sort of mechanical god creature like chitty chitty bang bang be a god of a forge or crafting. You could also use the giant eagle from the rescuers down under as a sky god perhaps. Really the old Disney catalog has several characters you can take inspiration from with a bit of imagination.

Skelechicken
2018-02-26, 01:02 AM
It's too bad the Evil Queen calls it a slave, because the being in the magic mirror is probably my go-to pick for something unknowably old, ineffable, and cruel. Its whole demeanor is that of a being that knows everything and is entirely detached from the emotional state of whoever is entreating it. I suppose you could make it an aspect of some collected body of cosmic knowledge, with her sort of skimming power from some greater source, but I dunno if that quite meets the definition of an Old God.

Joe the Rat
2018-02-26, 12:40 PM
The mirror was a sentient scrying device, but it would make an interesting choice for Knowledge. Smoking Mirror or some such (Sorry, Aztecs). The idea of carrying a mirror as a holy symbol / scrying focus has all sorts of potentials.

Perhaps the "spirit of the mirror" is actually just a messenger or servant of the deity - like a lesser archon or one of those living math equation things. That could work with the original story, if the Evil Queen managed to bind one into a specific mirror to be at her beck and call.

Starbuck_II
2018-02-26, 12:51 PM
Trickery - For the Old Gods, trickery is about the clever hero, the fool who fools, the one who succeeds through craft and cunning rather than might or magic. Borrowing from Jack of Fables (oh there's some irony), We have the Prince-of-Rodents, who appears in many tales under many names. The Brave Tailor. The Street Rat. Jacques the Mouse. Jack of the Beanstalk fame (also a giant killer). A couple of different highly unpopular rabbit stories. And so on.
Puck and Anansi are also viable.


I think Maui from movie Moana would make best sense.

Sure, he does have might, but he uses his cunning overall. While he was a demi-god in the movie, I like to think he finally ascended above that.
Plus, he has a prayer all ready, "You're welcome"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79DijItQXMM

Wraith
2018-02-26, 01:45 PM
There's a surprising amount of really dark stuff in Disney films on reflection, and that's not even considering what really happened to Sleeping Beauty in the original story :smalltongue:

For other worldly "Old Gods", I can think of a few which haven't been mentioned yet. The first are the Friends On The Other Side (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTqHbiE0vl8); a faceless cabal of things who aren't opposed to striking deals with mortals, but woe betide anyone who thinks that they found a loophole and don't keep up their end of the bargain. They represent the domains of bondage, shadows, servitude and dominion over others through 'lawful' means.

The second are the Ancestors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdGuZicUPts), whose domains include protection, family, cities and light. They are no less mysterious but certainly somewhat more benevolent.... if you happen to be one of their chosen 'children', of course, and willing to pay the price of their intervention....

There's also the Titans (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSRULDdFvc0) from Hercules; prehistoric elemental beings depicted as giants who oppose the Olympians. That's a fairly simple one; a living embodiment of "fire" or "earthquakes" in their destructive form - which aren't so much as worshipped as they are appeased - has real life equivalents in prehistory.

And finally, the Genie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI27mX1BHvk). The movie Aladdin takes place in approximately 2500BC (because we see the Sphinx being built) and by that point the Genie had been in captivity for 10,000 years which means that his last master was born prior to the Neolithic stage of the Stone Age - the Genie himself being unknowably older.
So how did he get a brass lamp in 12,500BC? Either he was imprisoned by a person or force so incredibly powerful that they considered phenomenal cosmic power suitable to be given to their slave, or the answer could be that he exists outside of the normal timestream, hence why he can make references to modern day events, personalities and technology despite existing 4,000 prior to their existence. He is a maimed being though; trapped and abused for so long that he no longer remembers his own origins and only knows of his time-travelling abilities in brief, barely remembered glimpses that he acts out unconsciously. His domains should be time, destiny and omnipotence but his actual nigh-omnipotent abilities are crippled to be a shadow of what they ought to be.... PLOT HOOK. :smalltongue:

Lacuna Caster
2018-02-26, 02:13 PM
And finally, the Genie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI27mX1BHvk). The movie Aladdin takes place in approximately 2500BC (because we see the Sphinx being built)...
Didn't cracked.com cover this theory at some point? I'm pretty sure it's an Islamic time-frame (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocIYM7ZT0Cg&t=1m40s), though. Maybe... 8th-century AD, I'm guessing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate)?

Wraith
2018-02-27, 07:38 AM
If there was a Cracked article about it, I didn't know about it; I just Wikipedia'd "The Sphinx", it says it was built in approximately 2500BC, and in the movie we see the thing surrounded by scaffold as a guy puts the finishing touches to chiselling it's nose. Make of that what you will.

I mean, the carpet flies them at a few thousand miles per hour to get from Not-Iran to Egypt, to China and then back again in a single night, so it's hardly a reliable source material. :smalltongue:

Worst case scenario; Aladdin takes place after the establishment of Islam as the regional religion (the Sultan refers to Allah repeatedly) so it could be anywhere between 800AD and 1500AD. That just means the Genie's previous Master lived in 9000BC or so, and as such was still a Stone Age caveman that probably predated agriculture yet managed to capture an enormously powerful djinn in a brass(!?) lamp.

Corneel
2018-02-27, 08:04 AM
Nobody suggested Malificent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maleficent) yet? She could serve as a counterpart to Oberon, and also take on some (many) aspects of the Queen of Air and Darkness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fey_deities#Queen_of_Air_and_Darkness), ruler of the Unseelie Court.

RickAllison
2018-02-27, 11:47 AM
Life - Since it balances nicely with the Firebird, the Green Lady (playing off the Spring Sprite. Also, Moana.) - Life, rebirth, regeneration. There's a lot of interplay here between Life and Nature - to the point that you might go to Titania if you don't need them for Faerie Royalty. King-of-Elks is a companion spirit, who acts as a protector. In the distant land of Ghibli, the roles are reversed: The Elk is the Life spirit, the Girl its protector.

I rather like the idea of folding the Elk into the Great Prince, maybe as a War/Life and then the Sprite can be Life/Nature. The Firebird can then double as a Light/Nature deity, a destructive reflection of the Sprite.


Knowledge - The Owl. Patron of Hermits, anachronistic wizards, and talking animals. It is said it lives in a Great Tree where all the knowledge of the world is kept. Apply any Library(and Lighthouse) of Alexandria, Knowledge without Wisdom, and Avatar the Last Airbender themes you like.

War - Generally has negative connotations, and hard to peg. If this were Runequest, I'd suggest a Duck. You could adapt the Horned God, since he's got that whole "building an army" thing going via Cauldron of Zombie Production. Unless the Firebird's destructive nature is a War theme, in which case I'd suggest:

I kind of like the idea of folding these two together for a Horned Owl, a true neceomancer of the Knowledge and Death domains (I needed a second death god).


Trickery - For the Old Gods, trickery is about the clever hero, the fool who fools, the one who succeeds through craft and cunning rather than might or magic. Borrowing from Jack of Fables (oh there's some irony), We have the Prince-of-Rodents, who appears in many tales under many names. The Brave Tailor. The Street Rat. Jacques the Mouse. Jack of the Beanstalk fame (also a giant killer). A couple of different highly unpopular rabbit stories. And so on.
Puck and Anansi are also viable.

(Arcana) - Yen Sid, the First Sorcerer. The mortal who created the first spells, and was raised to godhood. Presents a genial face to others, but is a dour and demanding deity, with a wicked sense of humor. Has been known to let real magic slip into the world hidden in "fake" magic tomes.
Prince-of-Rodents once stole some of his magic, with messy consequences.

I really like Mickey as a god of the setting, and I was already thinking about the Sorcerer!


(Forge) - May not be an appropriate domain. If so, try to apply Gyro Gearloose in an Archimedian theme. A less villainous Mechanicles.

(Grave) - Also tricky, due to lack of a character dying being a good thing. You need some sort of graveyard-watching entity. The Spirits of Notre Dame, somehow.

Im not sure if Forge really works well for this, though the Spirits of Notre Dame would be great.


There's a surprising amount of really dark stuff in Disney films on reflection, and that's not even considering what really happened to Sleeping Beauty in the original story :smalltongue:

For other worldly "Old Gods", I can think of a few which haven't been mentioned yet. The first are the Friends On The Other Side (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTqHbiE0vl8); a faceless cabal of things who aren't opposed to striking deals with mortals, but woe betide anyone who thinks that they found a loophole and don't keep up their end of the bargain. They represent the domains of bondage, shadows, servitude and dominion over others through 'lawful' means.

The second are the Ancestors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdGuZicUPts), whose domains include protection, family, cities and light. They are no less mysterious but certainly somewhat more benevolent.... if you happen to be one of their chosen 'children', of course, and willing to pay the price of their intervention....

There's also the Titans (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSRULDdFvc0) from Hercules; prehistoric elemental beings depicted as giants who oppose the Olympians. That's a fairly simple one; a living embodiment of "fire" or "earthquakes" in their destructive form - which aren't so much as worshipped as they are appeased - has real life equivalents in prehistory.

And finally, the Genie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI27mX1BHvk). The movie Aladdin takes place in approximately 2500BC (because we see the Sphinx being built) and by that point the Genie had been in captivity for 10,000 years which means that his last master was born prior to the Neolithic stage of the Stone Age - the Genie himself being unknowably older.
So how did he get a brass lamp in 12,500BC? Either he was imprisoned by a person or force so incredibly powerful that they considered phenomenal cosmic power suitable to be given to their slave, or the answer could be that he exists outside of the normal timestream, hence why he can make references to modern day events, personalities and technology despite existing 4,000 prior to their existence. He is a maimed being though; trapped and abused for so long that he no longer remembers his own origins and only knows of his time-travelling abilities in brief, barely remembered glimpses that he acts out unconsciously. His domains should be time, destiny and omnipotence but his actual nigh-omnipotent abilities are crippled to be a shadow of what they ought to be.... PLOT HOOK. :smalltongue:

Friends on the Other Side are not necessarily what I'm looking for, but they should be great NPCs to bring along for other parts of the setting! A warlock patron, maybe. The Ancestors are an interesting option. I rather like them as Tempest/Grave deities, as they primarily gift lightning and the waves through the technology while they basically preserve Atlantis in a living tomb. For the Titans, I was already planning on using giants who draw from an Olympus Stone to power their godhood, so it could make perfect sense for the Titans to be the giant Old Guard who sought immortality through binding themselves to the elements.


Nobody suggested Malificent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maleficent) yet? She could serve as a counterpart to Oberon, and also take on some (many) aspects of the Queen of Air and Darkness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fey_deities#Queen_of_Air_and_Darkness), ruler of the Unseelie Court.


It's too bad the Evil Queen calls it a slave, because the being in the magic mirror is probably my go-to pick for something unknowably old, ineffable, and cruel. Its whole demeanor is that of a being that knows everything and is entirely detached from the emotional state of whoever is entreating it. I suppose you could make it an aspect of some collected body of cosmic knowledge, with her sort of skimming power from some greater source, but I dunno if that quite meets the definition of an Old God.


The mirror was a sentient scrying device, but it would make an interesting choice for Knowledge. Smoking Mirror or some such (Sorry, Aztecs). The idea of carrying a mirror as a holy symbol / scrying focus has all sorts of potentials.

Perhaps the "spirit of the mirror" is actually just a messenger or servant of the deity - like a lesser archon or one of those living math equation things. That could work with the original story, if the Evil Queen managed to bind one into a specific mirror to be at her beck and call.

Unfortunately, both Maleficent and the Magic Mirror are accounted for in the setting. Mirror was the Queen's abusive father who was bound into it by a trio of witches who sought to drive her towards evil, while Maleficent is involved in the Fairylands.

Edit: My current pantheon is in the following list. I have it set up where they have two primary domains where a balance of power has been reached, and a third minor domain that they have encroached on.

King Under the Waves (Triton): Tempest, War (Light)
Stag (Great Prince): War, Life (Nature)
Lady (Spring Sprite): Life, Nature (Trickery)
Firebird: Light, Nature (Death)
Notre Tuteur (Notre Dame spirits): Forge, Grave (Life)
King on the Mountain (Chernabog): Death, Forge (Knowledge)
Sorcerer (Yen Sid): Arcana, Knowledge (Tempest)
Apprentice (Mickey): Trickery, Light (Arcana) [based on Kingdom Hearts, where he specialized in radiant magic]
Horned Owl: Death, Knowledge (War)
The Chained (Genie): Arcana, Trickery (Knowledge)
Sunken Ones (Atlantean ancestors): Grave, Tempest (Forge)