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jhonny
2018-02-20, 05:45 PM
I would like to thank everyone that should come and see this post, forgive me if anything of what I write may be wrong or bad english.

So lets start. I will write a book some time soon and have some questions and I need help.

First Every RPG should be clear to show the player in some ways like MIND/BODY/SOUL

Mind should be show like INTELLIGENCE / WILL POWER / WISDOM ANY OTHER?

If we use intelligence as some major status we should need to break it in to Intellect and Psychic
Intellect the way we deal with real things and Psychic the way we deal with un-natural things.

Will power should be as Intelligence and break it in to Sanity, personality, resolve, mental resistance, focus, discipline.

wisdom as well as both before break it in to common sense, intuition, perception/ insight .

The mind will work with information and the small portion is knowledge and the full is lore.

Now I need the help of you people how the status would make a magic class cast with fast cast speed, duration, and others effect. how should the space for information/knowledge be influenceable. Can you lend me a hand and help me think about those and other things please.

RazorChain
2018-02-20, 06:06 PM
First of all RPG's should be comprehensible so that people understand what they are reading.

Then and only then we can start discussing the quality of the rules

Recherché
2018-02-20, 06:37 PM
Yeah I'm sorry to say that I can't really understand what you are writing. I think it has something to do with mental stats and spellcasting. However I can't figure out the exact question. As best I can figure an answer without fully getting the question, what mental stats have to do with what aspects of magic are pretty arbitrary given that magic doesn't exist in the real world. So you can make up a magic system using any stats for anything as long as you can tell a good story on what it works that way.

jhonny
2018-02-20, 06:52 PM
OK, first of all thanks.

Im making and RPG book that would make use of MIND/BODY and SOUL to develop all the classes in the game.

So I was thinking where or how should I use some kind of status to increase cast speed and others, but maybe I should use the class for Example sorcerer should get a bonus of 1% of power every lvl, and wizard should get bonus to cast speed of 1%.

I should need help again with the body things like [(dex/ agi/ speed would take a role in accuracy, evasion, atack speed) (str damage and weight carry) (endurance or contitution should influence HP, defense and resistance, regen).

I ll try harder to think about it, but anyway thanks.

icefractal
2018-02-20, 09:29 PM
Tri-stat uses this split, IIRC.

I've been thinking for a while that 3e would be improved, balance-wise, if Magic was it's own stat. Which would modify:
* Spell and magic item DCs
* Spells/day
* UMD skill
* Nothing else

Notably, you wouldn't be a better diplomat, scout, have more skills, or any other benefits as a side-effect of being a better spellcaster.

So I would recommend something similar - either use a stat that has few other purposes, or just make it based on class/level without a stat involved. It gives more room for magic to be powerful without unbalancing things if mages aren't getting additional niches for free.

Kaptin Keen
2018-02-21, 12:47 AM
You're doing it backwards.

Don't start with the stats. Stats are ... if not useless, then at most a means to an end. Define the end. Then come up with the means. If you want characters to engage in Combat of Wills, what will that require? Sounds like a Willpower stat would be useful, but maybe not? Maybe will is defined in some other way, or maybe will is something that increases with level.

Regardless, from a design perspective, decide what you want, then figure out how to get there. Don't start with how to get there, then decide where to go.

Mind, however, that far as I can tell, every RPG in existance does what you do. So you're not alone =)

PrincessCupcake
2018-02-21, 04:03 AM
I see a lot of talk about stats and magic, but no context other than "I am making an RPG". What sort of RPG? Are you trying to emulate a particular series of fiction? Are you attempting to exemplify a genre? What sorts of feelings are you trying to capture through your gameplay?

I need to know what the purpose of your system is before I can really help.

jhonny
2018-02-21, 08:02 AM
Thx, everytime I read something about some how I feel like reaching near to what I look for.

I m tryng to make an RPG book based on a new universe where multi-classes and multi-races have their own places and planets, not something small but really a whole universe .

I have already create some of the races others races sure have in other rpg wiki.

When I was thinking about magic classes I was in trouble so I came here tryng to think if I should add another stats or should make changes in the class, like I said before.

In my book Im tryng to make clear somethings like bonus to be a witch, sorcerer and wizard class that use mana points.
And tryng to create a better enviroment for classes based on faith like clerics, paladin, priests.

Well I know something so big should have some dificults but everything starts from the first step.

Thank you all.

Anonymouswizard
2018-02-21, 08:21 AM
Question: have you played any RPGs other than D&D? Because you're description, while confusing, seems to be based heavily on D&D and similar systems with your talk about multi-classes, wizards versus sorcerers, and so on.

From what you're describing, you might just want to go statless and make these bonuses an inherent part of the classes.

jhonny
2018-02-21, 08:43 AM
I cant make a race without status, every race should have affinity to some classes based on their begining status.
I would like to make a third choice for people like I said is not a wizard versus sorcerer , but everyone will have a third choice.

Sorcerer will be based on a magic class with a semi-god bless, wizard will be like mages, and witchs will be a low caster class with strong potions making hability.

like paladins should be strong melee faith based class, cleric well balanced faith and melee, and priests should be a strong faith based class blessed by some semi -gods .

I hope to achieve what I wnat to create anyway thx for reply.

CharonsHelper
2018-02-21, 08:51 AM
So I would recommend something similar - either use a stat that has few other purposes, or just make it based on class/level without a stat involved. It gives more room for magic to be powerful without unbalancing things if mages aren't getting additional niches for free.

While it wouldn't work directly in D&D/heartbreakers - I've thought before that it'd be cool if different attributes benefitted different sorts of casting.

Say - fire spells benefit from Constitution (or system equivalent) and can be boosted by sacrificing HP.

Mental spells benefit from Wisdom/Willpower as you use your strength of mind to overpower your foe's.

etc.


@OP - Please work on your grammar before going forward with your rules.

Nifft
2018-02-21, 10:00 AM
I cant make a race without status, every race should have affinity to some classes based on their begining status.

There's no need for an RPG to have classes at all, but even if you do have classes, then there's no need for every RPG to have race/class affinity.

You should read a lot more RPGs which are different from D&D, and then think about whether you need to design a new system.

(Or you should just admit you want to homebrew some D&D stuff, and go forward with that. Homebrew is fun.)

Mark Hall
2018-02-21, 10:54 AM
There's a lot of ways to approach RPG design. The style you're looking at seems to lean towards stat-heavy... a character is mechanically defined by a bunch of statistics, and can have a lot of subtle gradations... i.e. instead of a broad "Intelligence" stat, which covers learning, reasoning, quickness of thought, facility with learned spells, etc., you would subdivide those out into several different statistics.

2e did this in its Skills and Powers supplement; Strength was broken into Muscle and Stamina, Dex into Coordination and Agility, Intelligence into Knowledge and Reasoning, etc.. What we found, in practice, is that it was a very gameable system. If your DM didn't track encumbrance, you could get a lot of mileage out of sacrificing your Stamina to get Muscle... because Muscle gave you bonuses to hit and damage. If you had a 14 Dexterity, switching to a 12 Coordination and 16 Agility would give you a +2 bonus to your armor class at no penalty to anything Coordination-based. Not a wizard? The only part keying off Reason was wizard-related things... boost your knowledge for those bonus character points.

So, while you can look at it, it creates a very distinct KIND of game, which has a lot of places for min/maxing. Which you might want, but it's something to watch out for.

Goaty14
2018-02-21, 03:28 PM
If we use intelligence as some major status we should need to break it in to Intellect and Psychic
Intellect the way we deal with real things and Psychic the way we deal with un-natural things.

Will power should be as Intelligence and break it in to Sanity, personality, resolve, mental resistance, focus, discipline.

wisdom as well as both before break it in to common sense, intuition, perception/ insight .

The mind will work with information and the small portion is knowledge and the full is lore.

Now I need the help of you people how the status would make a magic class cast with fast cast speed, duration, and others effect. how should the space for information/knowledge be influenceable. Can you lend me a hand and help me think about those and other things please.

I personally feel that this is the sort of stat divergence that belongs in a video game, not an RPG. That is, because some of the things mentioned are best described without a board/etc (that, or making large benefits for each large increase, which makes piddly increases feel like nothing). I.e maybe these stats govern different things, but they shouldn't each have a separate category, making it possible for the game to be more appealing to librarians than anything else (yes, an exaggeration, but the character sheet shouldn't look like a library.) Also why some people don't track encumbrance.
First Every RPG should be clear to show the player in some ways like MIND/BODY/SOUL
Mind should be show like INTELLIGENCE / WILL POWER / WISDOM ANY OTHER?

Meanwhile, this is something that I'd like to play. Also obligatory Grod's Law, because I feel like it fits:

Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use

For example, making a magic class have a "faster casting speed" is better determined in seconds than in rounds (unless your system has magic take an absurd amount of rounds). Take how D&D 3.5 (because it's the only one I play, and thus the only one I can draw examples from) determines carrying capacity: For every 1 point difference in strength, how much you can carry changes. As opposed to every other stat, which only provides bonuses for every 2 point differences. If small bonuses mean nothing, then it's better not to use them.

Anonymouswizard
2018-02-21, 06:28 PM
I cant make a race without status, every race should have affinity to some classes based on their begining status.
I would like to make a third choice for people like I said is not a wizard versus sorcerer , but everyone will have a third choice.

Sorcerer will be based on a magic class with a semi-god bless, wizard will be like mages, and witchs will be a low caster class with strong potions making hability.

like paladins should be strong melee faith based class, cleric well balanced faith and melee, and priests should be a strong faith based class blessed by some semi -gods .

I hope to achieve what I wnat to create anyway thx for reply.

I think you're going about it the wrong way, get your core ideas and classes first and then work out from that.

For example, let's say I'm making a class based fantasy TTRPG. I have a concept where I want world changing magic to be a thing, but I don't want it to be easy, as I'm currently making this exact RPG.

I don't want characters with access to more than one sort of power in this world. It gives too much versatility for the setting. So I'm taking an unusual route, classes say nothing about what you do, just where your power comes from.

The most basic class I need is the Expert, who is somebody with no power access. They get a lot of points to put towards mundane skills and a larger luck/fate pool. A sufficiently skilled expert can kill armies or create a sword able to split mountains, but does this through incredible dedication.

The second thing is that the setting I'm using has a telepathic secret police employed by the nobility. Psionics are inborn and random, although ozonic potential can be uncovered by scans. This means we need the Psychic as a class, who essentially gets points to put into special skills for mind reading and psychic combat.

Next we have miracles given by the gods/spirits. Nobody can really agree on what they are. Theurgists get a small list of specific active powers that they can use at the expense of energy.

Because of how the system is designed those three classes cover most of the setting. Infernalists can be added in, gaining passive boosts from pacts as they level, but that's it. If I wasn't essentially letting people spend their points as they wished I'd have to get more specific with warrior/rogue/psychic warrior/scholar theurge classes, at which point I'd have to identify which are the must important archetypes to the system. This world mean that psychic rogues would be developed as the 'core' psychic class that everything branches off of, as it's more important to the setting than the warrior psychics.

So I assume you've got your setting? Narrow down on one bit of it, and an what ate the important classes to that area. Then work out what abilities you need to represent the differences between those classes, and focus on just getting those sorted out.

So the archetypes I'm worried about differentiating are warriors, rogues, and scholars, of each of the three classes. I'm not using Ability Scores out an equivalent due to personal preferences, so I need a way to separate fighting ability, theivery, and knowing things. To start with I need three core skills:
-Fighting
-Roguery
-Knowledge

But I want to be a bit more specific in terms of what kind of warrior or scholar you ate, so I separate each of my core skills out into several categories. For instance for warriors I want to know roughly what kind of weapon you use, so the skill list becomes:
-Archery
-Firearms
-Swords
-Knives
-Polearms
-Acrobatics
-Stealth
-Prestidigitation
-Forgery
-Observation
-History
-Politics
-Engineering
-Research

For 4-5 skills by sub skill. Now thinking of the adventures I see happening in this system some of these skills won't come up much or are redundant, and some situations I see coming up often have no linked skills, so I alter the list to:
-Melee Weapons
-Ranged Weapons
-Athletics
-Stealth
-Observation
-Prestidigitation
-Lore
-Physique
-Influence
-Investigate

Let's say I'm happy with that for the bit of the setting I'm concentrating on for now, I can always add or remove skills as a consequence of playtesting. I move onto psychics, where I identify the following abilities I want then to have:
-Detect psionics
-Read surface thoughts
-Mind probe
-Induce emotion

For how it's resisted out feels like a generic available to anybody skill is the best way to go about it, so I add a Willpower skill to my list. It didn't exist before because there was no need, but it turns out that psychic combat I'd overpowered as characters spam Induce Pain with no available defence. We might also want to make induce pain be a separate power to induce emotion, it seems to have enough uses to justify it.

Now for theurgists we want specific powers. Maybe we give them a basic cost of one point of fatigue per person or cubic foot of matter affected, and say that a person is only affected by miracles if they choose to be.

Then just continue as you go, making additions and subtractions for each new class or set of classes you add. But don't try to start with everything and making all for, work a piece at a time.

jhonny
2018-02-22, 10:05 AM
Wow , I really apreciate the posts , I ll try polish my ideas.

Its nice to see that a lot of people have kind of views that can help to see things from other side.

Thanks a lot and if anyone have any other way of view things please lend me your comment.

jhonny
2018-02-22, 03:59 PM
I would like to know if I fixed the player status in the game only increase class Level, (except for items that could raise status Dagger of dex +1 for example) should it be better or there is more fun in increase both.

Or should I use something like ( Cronnus player Lvl 6) ( Melee ability ->Lvl 4 expert) (Long rang ability-> Lvl 1 beginner) (class Lvl 5 warrior) (class Lvl 3 Ranger) the player Lvl would increase only status, the class Lvl gives extra spell slot or add atack speed or damage or increase range shot and the ability Lvl would increase affinity or connection with the weapons / magic. Imagine for example Lvl person 2500 exp to first Lvl, ability first Lvl 2000 exp, class exp 1500 to first Lvl

I know the second option is more chaotic, but if the universe is to big, wouldn`t the first one be to low standart?

I sometimes feel like all the things should be possible to raise in an universe too big, but the dificult to make it will be to great!

Any suggestions about this?