What are realistic quest rewards? (esp. gold amount)

[Greywander]

Given that a skilled hireling only costs 2 gp per day, and even an aristocratic lifestyle is only 10 gp (minimum) per day, it strains my suspension of disbelief to see humble temples awarding hundreds of gold for slaying some rats that were ravaging their garden. I tend to be a simulationist, so I'd like to receive/award a realistic amount of gold and/or magic items based on the actual quest. A dragon hoard is one thing, but raking in tens of thousands of gold for clearing some monsters (even tough ones) out of a mineshaft seems like its really going to hurt that mining company, at least in the short term.

As far as I can tell, the best way to determine a fair price would be to:
Take into account how long the task is expected to take to form a rough "per day" rate.
Consider the financial cost of not hiring adventurers to carry out the quest.
Evaluate the difficulty of the quest against the availability of adventurers of a suitable level.

Are there any other ways I could gauge what a fair price would be? What sort of conditions would be conducive to those absurdly high paying quests the players are expecting to see when they get to higher levels? How can I justify paying the players a sum that would put a small country into debt?

[Tiadoppler]

For general overview, I suggest picking a set ratio of 1 gp = N real world currency. Generally, I treat 1gp as roughly approximate to $100(US) (and I adjust some costs that I find to be over/underpriced accordingly).

Then you get an idea:
Hiring a guard or trained worker costs a couple hundred dollars a day.
A wealthy person might spend a thousand dollars or more every day on maintaining their lifestyle.

A shopkeeper in a town could pay a couple hundred dollars to take care of a dangerous pest problem.

A tiny village might be willing to spend thousands (or maybe tens of thousands) of dollars if there's a big problem, but that might represent their community's entire emergency fund.

A large guild in a big city might think nothing of dumping tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to eliminate a murderous group of bandits.

A king might be willing to spend millions of dollars out of the nation's treasury to destroy a hostile dragon, or disrupt an invading army.

The nations of the world might pool together a huge bounty, ten million dollars and up, to anyone who can stop an evil lich/demigod/monster from destroying the world.



Just be consistent in whatever you do. A large mining company spending a couple million dollars (10,000 - 20,000 gp?) to secure an important mine sounds pretty plausible in the real world.

Edit:

What sort of conditions would be conducive to those absurdly high paying quests the players are expecting to see when they get to higher levels? How can I justify paying the players a sum that would put a small country into debt?

Follow the money. Businesses and governments spend lots and lots of money on contractors and subcontractors who handle all sorts of tasks. Also look at churches which have tithing - 1gp per person may not seem like a lot, but if the church of Selune in a major city has a "cleanse the Temple of the Moon in the Evil Forest fundraiser" and 75,000 people each donate 1gp, that's a nice chunk of change for an adventuring party.

[Unoriginal]

Given that a skilled hireling only costs 2 gp per day, and even an aristocratic lifestyle is only 10 gp (minimum) per day, it strains my suspension of disbelief to see humble temples awarding hundreds of gold for slaying some rats that were ravaging their garden. I tend to be a simulationist, so I'd like to receive/award a realistic amount of gold and/or magic items based on the actual quest. A dragon hoard is one thing, but raking in tens of thousands of gold for clearing some monsters (even tough ones) out of a mineshaft seems like its really going to hurt that mining company, at least in the short term.

As far as I can tell, the best way to determine a fair price would be to:
Take into account how long the task is expected to take to form a rough "per day" rate.
Consider the financial cost of not hiring adventurers to carry out the quest.
Evaluate the difficulty of the quest against the availability of adventurers of a suitable level.

Are there any other ways I could gauge what a fair price would be? What sort of conditions would be conducive to those absurdly high paying quests the players are expecting to see when they get to higher levels? How can I justify paying the players a sum that would put a small country into debt?

If you read the DMG and the published adventures, you can see that adventurers rarely if ever get "tens of thousands of gold for clearing some monsters (even tough ones) out of a mineshaft" or "a sum that would put a small country into debt".

My advice would be to use the Treasure tables, then take a part of it and make it the quest reward rather than "what the monster collected".

[Tanarii]

Are there any other ways I could gauge what a fair price would be? What sort of conditions would be conducive to those absurdly high paying quests the players are expecting to see when they get to higher levels? How can I justify paying the players a sum that would put a small country into debt?
Do you want players to be able to:
- buy half plate by level 6, and full plate by 7-8?
- combine funds to buy a small keep/castle around level 11?
- combine funds to buy a big castle/palace around level 17?

If so, use the PHB treasure tables. If not, cut them drastically. Like, you could easily cut them by 1/10th across all Tiers, and it wouldn't be a problem.

Edit: for actual quest rewards, just cut out part of the Hoard for that quest/dungeon/adventuring site, and offer it as a reward instead.

I've used anywhere up to 10% of a Hoard value for an area as a quest reward before, including the advance to get PCs interested. Sometimes the advance is offered to multiple PC groups in different sessions and only the final group who completes the 'mission' gets the full reward, even thou they've all been working (independently) on 'clearing' an area.

[bc56]

Or, you can pay the PCs in favors and similar things. The temple may not be able to afford the adventurers using money, but could offer discounts on healing services.

[Unoriginal]

If you go by the published adventures, one of the quest givers is ready to pay a 25 gp bounty by orc from a nearby lair dealt with, since those raiders are threatening his town and pillaging the countryside.

[MrStabby]

I think it is worth considering PCs at top earners in their economy. They may be the top 1% but not in the top 0.05% (at least until higher levels). This is also despite downtime between adventures, overheads, bribes and paying off the local authorities after the sorcerer has set fire to the town for the third time.

If we look at a top lawyer or consultant they can command at least a couple of thousand dollars per day - a quest with a substantial reward should represent that figure, albeit with some danger money added on top. It is also worth adding that it is a "no-win, no-fee" model for the quest giver - it isn't a wage that you have to pay whether the party succeeds or not.

[Tanarii]

If you're interested, a group of PCs expects to get something like:
2,200 gp in levels 1-4
94,000 gp in levels 5-10
440,000 gp in levels 11-16
2,736,000 gp in levels 17-20

So like I said, the intent appear to be:
End of tier 1 - Can't afford the best armor, big boats, or fortifications/property
End of Tier 2 - can't individually afford 50k properties (keep, small castle, abbey, temple) but can pool resources for one. Can individually afford 15k properties (Tower, Outpost/Fort) mid-Tier 2.
End of Tier 3 - can individually afford 50k properties. Maybe start building a 500k palace/large castle if the pool and adventure while it's being built for more lootz

I took the numbers from the following, which IIRC is fairly accurate
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?402507-Deconstructing-5e-Typical-Wealth-by-Level

It is also fairly easy to calculate expected hoards per adventuring day. For example, I know off the top of my head it averages 1/adventuring day for Tier 1, and 3 for every 2.4 adventuring days in Tier 2. I need that when calculating hoards for my campaign because I have multiple groups of PCs of various levels. So I had to figure out a way to distribute treasure somehow other than one individual party's expected lootz across a Tier.

[Unoriginal]

I think it is worth considering PCs at top earners in their economy. They may be the top 1% but not in the top 0.05% (at least until higher levels). This is also despite downtime between adventures, overheads, bribes and paying off the local authorities after the sorcerer has set fire to the town for the third time.

If we look at a top lawyer or consultant they can command at least a couple of thousand dollars per day - a quest with a substantial reward should represent that figure, albeit with some danger money added on top. It is also worth adding that it is a "no-win, no-fee" model for the quest giver - it isn't a wage that you have to pay whether the party succeeds or not.



Also, we have to keep in mind that adventuring doesn't pay *that* much compared to, say, what a whole country would have.

I mean, if you look at the Treasure tables, the maximum gold you can get from a Legengady CR17+ monster's hoard is 144'000 gp. It sounds impressive, but it's not enough to pay for the construction of three small castles. It's not even half of what is needed to build a large castle.

Heck, the Plate Armors of 100 knights cost more. 144'000 gp is just short of the maintenance cost of a large castle, for one year.

Of course the Legendary monster would have other kind of coins + gems + art objects + magic items in their hoard, but still, it puts things in perspective.

[Tanarii]

Heck, the Plate Armors of 100 knights cost more. 144'000 gp is just short of the maintenance cost of a large castle, for one year.I always figured a nice Tier 4 pace would be about 1 adventuring day to find a Hoard every time annual upkeep on the party's ruling palace was coming up. Plus a nice solid aristocratic lifestyle for the party, of course. :smallbiggrin:

[Unoriginal]

I always figured a nice Tier 4 pace would be about 1 adventuring day to find a Hoard every time annual upkeep on the party's ruling palace was coming up. Plus a nice solid aristocratic lifestyle for the party, of course. :smallbiggrin:

"Snorri, the taxman is coming!"

"Again? Alright, someone bring me my axe, I'll go find a Pit Fiend and steal his stuff."

[ThatDrowPlayer]

Given that a skilled hireling only costs 2 gp per day, and even an aristocratic lifestyle is only 10 gp (minimum) per day, it strains my suspension of disbelief to see humble temples awarding hundreds of gold for slaying some rats that were ravaging their garden. I tend to be a simulationist, so I'd like to receive/award a realistic amount of gold and/or magic items based on the actual quest. A dragon hoard is one thing, but raking in tens of thousands of gold for clearing some monsters (even tough ones) out of a mineshaft seems like its really going to hurt that mining company, at least in the short term.

As far as I can tell, the best way to determine a fair price would be to:
Take into account how long the task is expected to take to form a rough "per day" rate.
Consider the financial cost of not hiring adventurers to carry out the quest.
Evaluate the difficulty of the quest against the availability of adventurers of a suitable level.

Are there any other ways I could gauge what a fair price would be? What sort of conditions would be conducive to those absurdly high paying quests the players are expecting to see when they get to higher levels? How can I justify paying the players a sum that would put a small country into debt?

Don't forget that there are different denominations of currency. 5e has increased the cost for a lot things (look at the difference in cost for plate armor between this edition and the previous one), so currency is much more valuable, so there's an incentive to use copper, silver, and platinum pieces.

Experience points should be reasonable (and don't forget to reward skill checks), but look at the kind of establishment or NPC giving out money. A church is a church, but there's a difference between a small-town church and Notre Dame in France. Gold is rare, but copper is common and silver is a good amount to reward. Giving them more of those will encouraging being frugal and saving, as well as feeling more realistic.

As for items, I typically write up a list of items and either have players roll for the items they find/are rewarded with, or I let them pick one as a reward. Doesn't have to always be magic, just better than what they have. A +1 full plate is nice, but your cleric with halfplate might be just as happy finding a suit of chainmail in that old stronghold. With denominations of currency, you stretch out the cost of something, so they'll take inferior equipment when compared to their target item, but superior to what they have now. This all makes the game more realistic, at least in my experience.

[MrStabby]

Just be careful that frugality doesn't lead to unwanted murder-hoboism.

Murdering a smith over the cost of chainmail is generally a poor life choice for a character. If that same chainmail represents two weeks worth of concentrated adventuring for a level six character then just taking it by force can be a good start.

[Tanarii]

If armor smithing is that valuable, all the good ones are probably personally working for nobles already. Especially if it's theoretically a feudal / monarchy setup.

Of course, being able to walk to the town generic-metal smith or even general trading store and buy armor of your choice off the PHB list is a time honored D&Dism.

[ThatDrowPlayer]

Just be careful that frugality doesn't lead to unwanted murder-hoboism.

Murdering a smith over the cost of chainmail is generally a poor life choice for a character. If that same chainmail represents two weeks worth of concentrated adventuring for a level six character then just taking it by force can be a good start.

This is a genuine concern, believe it or not. My particular party has a Chaotic-Stupid Kenku who would think nothing of murdering a shopkeeper to save a quick buck, and he's a divine character. However, the exchange rate isn't terrible in 5e. Here it is, from the PHB:





Coin
cp
sp
gp


Copper
1
1/10
1/100


Silver
10
1
1/10


Gold
100
10
1


As you can see, only 10 silver pieces equal 1 gold piece, and likewise only 10 copper pieces equal 1 silver piece. You can give out a good amount of both, and it will add up over time. Obviously, the more expensive things will take longer to accumulate, so while quest-givers may only be able to give out silver and copper (perhaps gold for guilds, and lots of it for nobles), make sure to give gold as loot in dungeons, and off difficult enemies. This will give solid boosts and keep your players from killing your townsfolk. This would be the more realistic approach, I think, but as I'm sure everyone will tell you, this is largely up to your discretion as a DM.

[Tanarii]

As you can see, only 10 silver pieces equal 1 gold piece, and likewise only 10 copper pieces equal 1 silver piece. You can give out a good amount of both, and it will add up over time. Personally I use random hoards, use variant encumbrance, and point out that stopping to sort out treasure's cp or sp from higher denominations takes time ... in a dangerous area with wandering monsters. Also money changers charge a % to take thousands of copper or hundreds of silver off your hands.

Figuring out how to handle D&D lootz can be part of the fun if you go old school.
"This 5ft tall jade idol is worth thousands! Now how do we get the thing out the door and across 20 miles of jungle to sell it?"

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is giving rewards in cp or sp feels kinda evil GM to me. I like it. :smallamused:

[Tiadoppler]

I like to use the conceit that young dragons have hoards consisting of huge piles of copper coins, filled in with smooth river rocks at the bottom to make the piles seem bigger. It's fun to watch players' faces when they hear the description: mounds of coins stretching across the floor, glinting in the torchlight.