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deshrimp
2007-08-29, 01:33 PM
Ok Here it is. The class inspired by Fable. The Hero

HERO
As quoted from the Book of the Guild: The Way of the Hero.
Only upon graduating from the Guild may you call yourself a Hero, but this is just the first step. Becoming a Hero of greatness requires you to increase both your Renown and your Experience. To this end, young Heroes must accept increasingly challenging quests that the citizenry of Albion drop off at the Guild. These are tasks deemed impossible for ordinary citizens, and many are though not possible for even the mightiest of Heroes. Use the Quest Cardís description to decide whether or not a particular Quest suits you according to your experience and abilities. As weíve stated before, it takes time to become a great Hero, and the path to greatness is yours for the choosing.

Adventures: Heroes adventure for many reasons, but most adventure seeking greater renown. Some adventure for evil, some for good. Many are a part of the Guild of Heroes, accepting quests that are given to the guild.
Characteristics: Heroes come in many forms, some seeking extreme strength, some seek extreme skill, while others seek extreme willpower. There are some that combine these abilities to create an even more powerful ability.
Religion: Heroes follow their own individual beliefs.
Background: Heroes have been around since the need for protections and aid, as well as the desire for destruction and despair.
Races: A Hero can come from any race. All it takes is the desire to become one.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Heroes have the following game statistics.
Abilities: The main focus of a Hero depends on how the Hero chooses to develop. He chooses from three main areas of focus. Strength governs the area of Strength, Dexterity governs Skill, and Intelligence governs Will.
Alignment: Any.
Special: Must have trained in at the Guild of Heroes.
Hit Die: See Below

Class Skills
The Heroís class skills are determined by the area of focus. Skill Points are also determined by the area of focus.

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features for the Hero Class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Heroes gain proficiency with the club and shortsword and are proficient with light armor.

Guild Seal: At 1st level, a Hero gains the use of a Guild Seal. This Seal allows him access to the specific Level-up Focuses. This Seal also allows the Guild Master to communicate with the Hero. A Hero may also obtain new guests via his Guild Seal. Should he leave the Guild, his Seal becomes inactive, preventing him from gaining further levels as a Hero until he rejoins the Guild.

Focus: At first level, a Hero learns of the three main focuses in which he may train. At first level they gain 1 rank in Physique and Speed. Starting at second level, as he gains experience he choose to increase their abilities within 1 of the various areas from any of the three main focuses: Strength, Skill, and Will. At 4th level, and every other level afterwards, he gains an additional focus point. He must meet the level requirements (CL), and have the previous Focus level (FL) before he is able to choose the selected ability

Strength: Strength benefits a Hero by allowing him to use heavier weapons, as well as dealing more damage to opponents. The three areas of training within this focus are physique, health, and toughness.

Skill: Skill benefits a Hero by allowing him to gain better accuracy with ranged weapons and faster speed in combat, as well as aiding him in the art of stealth. A skillful Hero is also excellent at bartering. The three areas of training within this focus are speed, accuracy, and guile.

Will: Will is, in essence, the ability to use magic. Will benefits a Hero by allowing him to cast magic. A Hero, who masters the area of will, can become a powerful mage. The areas of training within this focus are attack spells, surround spells, support spells, and willpower.

At each level, a Hero chooses how he wishes to grow. He chooses 2 areas in which he increases. The areas of focus are described in greater detail below.

Areas of Focus:
Strength:
Physique: This area increases the Heroes ability to wield heavier weapons, as well as allowing him to wear heavier armor. This ability also increases the damage the Hero does in combat when unarmed. This ability also increases his BAB. When a Hero obtains a rank that changes his BAB, he gains the BAB of the class shown, as they are at that level. Example: A hero gains Physique 3 at 7th level, he would then gain the BAB of a 7th level cleric.
Health: This area increases the Heroes Hit Dice. If no levels are attained in this area, his Hit Dice is a d4. Once a selected Hit Dice has been obtained, a Hero gains 2HP per HD he currently has. Example 3 lvls at d4, gains d6, gains 6 more HP. Then continues at d6 with no bonus HP.
Toughness: This area increases the Heroes ability to defend against attacks by raising his natural armor. Higher levels of this also increase his Fortitude.

Skill:
Speed: This area will increase the Heroes speed as well as give him a number of extra attacks. A hero must make a full attack to gain the benefits of any extra attacks.
Accuracy: This area will increase the Heroes accuracy with ranged weapons, thus allowing him to deal more damage in ranged combat.
Guile: This area increases the Heroes ability to barter for better prices when buying and selling. Higher levels give the Hero abilities in stealth.

Will:
Attack Spells: This area allows the Hero to use spells that target an opponent directly, either dealing damage or by other means. Higher levels in this area allow use of higher level spells.
Surround Spells: This area allows the Hero to use spells that have an area of effect. Higher levels in this area allow use of higher level spells.
Support Spells: This area allows the Hero to use spells that aid him and his allies. Higher levels in this area allow use of higher level spells.
Willpower: This area increases the Heroes ability to cast spells. The higher this ability is, the more spells per day a Hero may cast.

Levels and Abilities of Focuses:
Strength Focus AbilitiesPhysique:
FL BAB Weapon Armor Unarmed CL
1 wizard as wizard as wizard 1d6 1
2 wizard simple light 1d6 2
3 cleric simple light 1d6 3
4 cleric martial medium 1d8 4
5 fighter martial medium 1d8 5
6 fighter all all 1d10 8
7 fighter all all as monk 10
The Ďallí does not give proficiency in exotic weapons or armorsHealth:
FL Hit Dice Special CL
1 d6 - 2
2 d8 Toughness feat 5
3 d10 - 8
4 d12 Improved Toughness feat 11Toughness:
FL Nat armor Fort bonus CL
1 +1 +0 2
2 +1 +1 4
3 +2 +1 6
4 +2 +2 8
5 +3 +2 10Skill Focus AbilitiesSpeed:

FL Speed Extra Attacks CL
1 +0 +0 1
2 +5 +0 6
3 +10 +1 9
4 +15 +1 12
5 +20 +2 15
6 +25 +2 18Accuracy:

FL Hit Damage CL
1 +1 +0 2
2 +1 +1 4
3 +2 +1 6
4 +2 +2 8
5 +3 +2 10
6 +3 +3 12
7 +4 +3 14
8 +4 +4 16
9 +5 +4 18
10 +5 +5 20Guile:

FL Discount Increase Special CL
1 5% 0% - 2
2 5% 5% Stealth 4
3 10% 5% Steal, Lockpick 5
4 10% 10% Camouflage 7
5 15% 10% Stealth +2 9
6 15% 15% Theft, Lock Key 11
7 20% 15% Camouflage +2 13
8 20% 20% Stealth +3 15
9 25% 20% Thief, Skeleton Key 17
10 25% 25% Camouflage +3 20Guile Special Abilities
Stealth: Gain +5 to move silent
Stealth +2: Gain +10 to move silent
Stealth +3: Gain +15 to move silent
Steal: Gain +5 to sleight of hand
Theft: Gain +10 to sleight of hand
Thief: Gain +15 to sleight of hand
Lockpick: Gain +5 to Open Lock
Lock key: Gain +10 to Open Lock
Skeleton key: Gain +15 to Open Lock
Camouflage: Gain +5 to Hide
Camouflage +2: Gain +10 to Hide
Camouflage +3: Gain +15 to HideWill Focus AbilitiesAttack Spells Known: 0 lvl known is 3 at all lvls

FL 1 2 3 4 5 CL
1 2 0 0 0 0 1
2 2 0 0 0 0 2
3 3 0 0 0 0 3
4 3 1 0 0 0 4
5 4 2 0 0 0 5
6 4 2 1 0 0 6
7 5 3 2 0 0 7
8 5 3 2 1 0 8
9 5 4 3 2 0 9
10 As Sorcerer 10Surround Spells Known: 0 lvl known is 3 at all lvls

FL 1 2 3 4 5 CL
1 2 0 0 0 0 1
2 2 0 0 0 0 2
3 3 0 0 0 0 3
4 3 1 0 0 0 4
5 4 2 0 0 0 5
6 4 2 1 0 0 6
7 5 3 2 0 0 7
8 5 3 2 1 0 8
9 5 4 3 2 0 9
10 As Sorcerer 10Support Spells Known: 0 lvl known is 3 at all lvls

FL 1 2 3 4 5 CL
1 2 0 0 0 0 1
2 2 0 0 0 0 2
3 3 0 0 0 0 3
4 3 1 0 0 0 4
5 4 2 0 0 0 5
6 4 2 1 0 0 6
7 5 3 2 0 0 7
8 5 3 2 1 0 8
9 5 4 3 2 0 9
10 As Sorcerer 10Willpower: 0 lvl per day is 6 at all lvls

FL 1 2 3 4 5 CL
1 3 0 0 0 0 1
2 4 0 0 0 0 2
3 5 0 0 0 0 3
4 6 3 0 0 0 4
5 6 4 0 0 0 5
6 6 5 3 0 0 6
7 6 6 4 0 0 7
8 6 6 5 3 0 8
9 6 6 6 4 0 9
10 As Sorcerer 10
EX Heroes: A character that stops gaining levels as a Hero still retains all abilities, however, he is considered to have left the guild, and may only continue to gain levels if he rejoins the guild.

Table: Hero

LVL FORT REF WILL
1 +0 +0 +2
2 +0 +0 +3
3 +1 +1 +3
4 +1 +1 +4
5 +1 +1 +4
6 +2 +2 +5
7 +2 +2 +5
8 +2 +2 +6
9 +3 +3 +6
10 +3 +3 +7
11 +3 +3 +7
12 +4 +4 +8
13 +4 +4 +8
14 +4 +4 +9
15 +5 +5 +9
16 +5 +5 +10
17 +5 +5 +10
18 +6 +6 +11
19 +6 +6 +11
20 +6 +6 +12

LEVEL SPECIAL
1 Guild Seal
2 Focus +1
3 Focus +1
4 Focus +2
5 Focus +1
6 Focus +2
7 Focus +1
8 Focus +2
9 Focus +1
10 Focus +2
11 Focus +1
12 Focus +2
13 Focus +1
14 Focus +2
15 Focus +1
16 Focus +2
17 Focus +1
18 Focus +2
19 Focus +1
20 Focus +2

Deesix
2007-08-29, 02:29 PM
Right on! I like it...Only...Ranger has the same BAB as a fighter.

Also, how are the extra attacks dealt with? And will there be a spell list in the near future?

Korias
2007-08-29, 02:37 PM
First, change "Ranger" into "Cleric" For BAB. Ranger is 1/1, Cleric is 3/4.

Second, give it a dog.

Third, and if I understand this correctly, they get one "Focus" per level. They use that focus to buy certain abilities. Thus, they get 19 Focus Points to spend. And thats it. Nothing more, Nothing less. No Capstone ability, no special "Congrats! Your 20th Level!" ability.


Fourth, you have two "Camo +2" abilities.

Fifth: Proficiencies. You get two weapons Plus armor. Not much. Compared to any 1st level class, this is not very good. But at level 20, you can punch like a monk and cast multiple spells. Much better than a 20th level character.

Sixth, What spells are attainable?

Deesix
2007-08-29, 02:44 PM
Perhaps you should give him between 1-3 levels in his abilities to start...And yeah, it DOES need a capstone ability.

deshrimp
2007-08-29, 02:58 PM
First, change "Ranger" into "Cleric" For BAB. Ranger is 1/1, Cleric is 3/4.Done
Second, give it a dog.No. Fable does not give animal companions. But there is summon monster.
Third, and if I understand this correctly, they get one "Focus" per level. They use that focus to buy certain abilities. Thus, they get 19 Focus Points to spend. And thats it. Nothing more, Nothing less. No Capstone ability, no special "Congrats! Your 20th Level!" ability.They get 1 per level, and an extra one every other level. so you get 28 focus points.
I'm also working on the 20th level ability (havent figured out how i want to work it.
Fourth, you have two "Camo +2" abilities.Fixed
Fifth: Proficiencies. You get two weapons Plus armor. Not much. Compared to any 1st level class, this is not very good. But at level 20, you can punch like a monk and cast multiple spells. Much better than a 20th level character. You have to purchase the abilities. Added 1st level focus obtained. There are also a level requirments. I'm working on the specific requirments for each one, as far as what level ___ focus needs to be at before you can take __ level of ___ focus.
Sixth, What spells are attainable?Working on the spell list.

Vadin
2007-08-29, 03:08 PM
When he advances a Hit Die type or increases his BAB bonus, does that benefit apply retroactively? What I mean is, if he's level 10 and increases is BAB from 3/4 to full, does his BAB then become 10?

In addition, how does the +1 attacks thing work? Is that one extra attack at his full BAB?

deshrimp
2007-08-29, 03:19 PM
When he advances a Hit Die type or increases his BAB bonus, does that benefit apply retroactively? What I mean is, if he's level 10 and increases is BAB from 3/4 to full, does his BAB then become 10?Yes. I didnt think about that untill now but yes. you gain the BAB of the level you obtain it. Example. you take physique level 3 at 7th level. you gain the BAB of a 7th level cleric. If you take physique level 5 at 15 level, you would then gain the BAB of a cleric.
In addition, how does the +1 attacks thing work? Is that one extra attack at his full BAB?As far as the Speed focus goes yes. I just changed it though. so take a look.

Vadin
2007-08-29, 03:30 PM
This extra attack, does he need to use a full round action to use it in addition to his normal attacks, or does he always get that extra attack, even when moving and attacking?

Korias
2007-08-29, 03:33 PM
Fable does not give animal companions. But there is summon monster.

Wait, I'm thinking of Fable 2. You get a dog in that game.

Vadin
2007-08-29, 04:08 PM
So at the end this guy gets 28 Fate points...First off, that's a pretty big incentive to stay in the class right there. Nothing else grants them, so why leave? The lack of anything at level one distresses me, however. 1/2 BAB, a d4 hit die, light armor and a few simple weapons? Ouch!

For the first few levels, this guys an absolute nobody! He can barely cast spells (If he goes down that road) and he doesn't get full BAB or a ranger's HD until at the earliest level 5! And by that time, what's the ranger got? The ranger's got a few spells, some real nice skills, a trusty animal companion, and some bonus feats.

There seems to also be a distressing lack of skills and skill points, too.

One last note, if this guy is patient (or created at a really high level), he can end up with almost 3x as many spells as a sorcerer. Granted these spells are between level 1 and 5, but still. Depending on how these spells are chosen (list of spells known chosen upon advancement, a spellbook that can be added to?) and cast (prepared, spontaneous?) this could end up more than a tad overpowered.

deshrimp
2007-08-29, 07:14 PM
So at the end this guy gets 28 Fate points...First off, that's a pretty big incentive to stay in the class right there. Nothing else grants them, so why leave? The lack of anything at level one distresses me, however. 1/2 BAB, a d4 hit die, light armor and a few simple weapons? Ouch!

For the first few levels, this guys an absolute nobody! He can barely cast spells (If he goes down that road) and he doesn't get full BAB or a ranger's HD until at the earliest level 5! And by that time, what's the ranger got? The ranger's got a few spells, some real nice skills, a trusty animal companion, and some bonus feats.

There seems to also be a distressing lack of skills and skill points, too.

One last note, if this guy is patient (or created at a really high level), he can end up with almost 3x as many spells as a sorcerer. Granted these spells are between level 1 and 5, but still. Depending on how these spells are chosen (list of spells known chosen upon advancement, a spellbook that can be added to?) and cast (prepared, spontaneous?) this could end up more than a tad overpowered.Fate Points...I like the name.

If youve ever played Fable, You would understand that you start out pretty weak. As you gain exp, you become more and more powerful.

The Lack of skills and skill points is an error on my part. I havent figured out the number of skills, which skills, and the number of skill points yet.

As for the spells, I'm working on a spell list right now. He does not gain a spellbook, He gains a very limited selection of spells. The spells known will change once I have the spell list. This is just a basic idea for now.

Akennedy
2007-08-30, 09:07 AM
Okay, I get it all now! I Loves it bunches! However, Can they ever cast in armor?

deshrimp
2007-08-30, 10:02 AM
It is a new concept so it does take some getting used to.

As for spells, as soon as I have the spell list (have to load up my game first), Ill have a more balanced spells per day progression. just give me a couple of days (kinda busy with other things right now).

Vadin
2007-08-30, 03:08 PM
Of course I've played Fable :smalltongue:.

But in Fable, the game is paced like that (weak at first and then exponentially stronger) and the enemies are gaged accordingly. D&D is based on the assumption of more or less linear growths in power.

As it stands, I could see this guy being the shining star in later levels, worthless (no offense meant, I just mean his combat abilities) in early levels, and a bit (not a lot, just a little) stronger than the rest of the party in mid-level range.

Perhaps making this a level-by-level advancement would be a good idea. If he wants spell casting at this level he needs to pay X amount of fate points, meaning he can't afford that precious D8 HD that costs Y points or that shiny new BAB he's been wanting for Z points. The level-ish progressment of abilities as you have it now is an excellent start for a setup like this, what with the different magic lists and all. Maybe if he had the option of paying for half-casting (rangers and paladins), three-quarters casting (like bards), or full casting (like sorcerers), it might be more feasible. Let's say, for example, that he had 10 fate points this level. He could spend 2 (not saying these values are balanced, they're just examples) points on a fortitude save advancement (from +2 to +3), 4 points on a new BAB bonus, 2 points on another level towards half-casting (he's at level 3 in this now, so his next level in this gets actual spells!), and the other 2 points stashed away for next level's reflex save and will save (the other 2 points needed for that purchase will be instead of his BAB. The leftover 2 points will then be saved again for the level after that).

In this way, which is by no means a simple undertaking, a character could build-a-better-hero like they could in Fable, combining level by level class advancement with fable's system of requiring and building upon past abilities so that new skills can be unlocked.

deshrimp
2007-08-30, 04:50 PM
I like your thoughts Vadin. If you want, I could use your help in that department. The spell idea you have would probably be better than a small selection of spells from the game. It allows a wider variety of spells. Also the point buy system is better than the way I have it. I could use the help in reworking the system. If you want to. If not, no problem.

Vadin
2007-08-30, 05:03 PM
I've seen a lot of set-ups on the web for building your own class using point-buy systems. Granted, these are usually for building an entire class that will remain the same throughout the game, but thats no reason they couldn't be adapted.

I'll rifle through my bookmarks and see if I can find any of them.

[EDIT] Found it! Here's (http://rumkin.com/reference/dnd/download/classconstruction.pdf) the link to Shadowcraft Studio's class construction engine. If I stumble across any more, I'll try and post the here to.

And another one! Super-generic class! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846494)

D20Liberation (http://www.netflash.net/llanade/redleafgames/downloads/dliberation20_2.01.pdf). I haven't had a chance to fully peruse it yet, but it seems to work along the same lines as the previous two.

One last one (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=806796) that modifies the generic classes introduced in Unearthed Arcana.