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Xuc Xac
2018-03-26, 11:56 PM
Hey, playgrounders! What are your favorite small races in fantasy games? Do you have a favorite for PCs to play? What about NPCs? What's your favorite tiny antagonist to go up against? Which ones have the most personality? Do Tucker's kobolds terrify you? Do you like your half folk to be hobbity homebodies or larcenous halflings? What svirfs your neblin?

Anonymouswizard
2018-03-27, 08:22 AM
It's small, it's the best, and it's inventions are probably exploding right now. Gnomes rule, halflings drool.

In terms of NPCs/enemies, I tend to run human only worlds, so most unusually short people are dwarfs or children in fake beards. But when I don't it's dwarves and gnomes.

theCourier
2018-03-27, 12:01 PM
Out of the "standard" three (dwarves, gnomes, halflings) I'd have to say... Dwarves. They're classic, and I like all the different interpretations people have of them. Like their interpretations in The Elder Scrolls, where they're NOT small.

bc56
2018-03-27, 12:18 PM
I really like hobbitshalflings. The conflict between staying home, and between going adventuring appeals to me, and I have an idea of a halfling eldritch knight/swashbuckler running around my head.

Rodimal
2018-03-27, 01:16 PM
Kender. However, I'm never allowed to play one unless the game is already broken.

Mark Hall
2018-03-27, 01:29 PM
I have a fondness for gnomes, though I also feel they're seldom done "right", so it might be more accurate to say "I have a fondness for an idea of gnomes that no one else seems to subscribe to."

FelineArchmage
2018-03-27, 01:55 PM
I've never played one (but I want to) so I have no idea how well they work mechanically, but I really like tibbits!

But that's probably because I love cats. Hence my name

Mystral
2018-03-27, 02:10 PM
Hey, playgrounders! What are your favorite small races in fantasy games? Do you have a favorite for PCs to play? What about NPCs? What's your favorite tiny antagonist to go up against? Which ones have the most personality? Do Tucker's kobolds terrify you? Do you like your half folk to be hobbity homebodies or larcenous halflings? What svirfs your neblin?

Air Mephlings

Metahuman1
2018-03-28, 12:39 AM
Not Technically Small, but I like Sparrow Hegenyokai, for there ability to actually get down to like borrower/green army man scale. There are a LOT of fairy tales and folk lore and mythology's that feature creators that small and smaller, it seems a shame in fantasy gaming to just ignore and shun that for mechanical reasons.

Celestia
2018-03-28, 12:48 AM
Like their interpretations in The Elder Scrolls, where they're NOT small.
They're also not really dwarves because they're just a subrace of elves.

Bulhakov
2018-03-28, 03:24 AM
I enjoyed playing with windlings in Earthdawn, though never played one myself. They're basically 18inch pixies.
They have a big starting advantage in the form of natural flight, though it disappears quick as in Earthdawn almost all classes have some type of air-travel option by level 3.

Joe the Rat
2018-03-28, 12:52 PM
Kobolds (particularly 1e aesthetic) and Jawas.

Anonymouswizard
2018-03-28, 02:16 PM
Kender. However, I'm never allowed to play one unless the game is already broken.

Ah yeah, they make great villains, players can kill them without remorse.

(In all seriousness, I like quite a bit of the Kender, but unfortunately they'll just come off as annoying versions of Lightfoots to me. The 3e Lightfoot Halfling was an amazing race, taking some of the Kender traits but without the annoying 'innocence' and less inherent goodness. A Lightfoot who nicked your wallet likely understands it's wrong, although they might still give it back if asked.)

Ravens_cry
2018-03-28, 02:40 PM
Tibbits! They turn into cats! They can take feline feats (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c)! Tibbits!:smallbiggrin: I played one for one session, before that campaign went on indefinite hiatus, which was a real shame, because I was having a blast. The other players didn't even know the cat was my character, as the DM would hand off minor NPC and monsters to players whose character was not in a scene, until half-way through!

Celestia
2018-03-28, 03:19 PM
Tibbits! They turn into cats! They can take feline feats (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c)! Tibbits!:smallbiggrin: I played one for one session, before that campaign went on indefinite hiatus, which was a real shame, because I was having a blast. The other players didn't even know the cat was my character, as the DM would hand off minor NPC and monsters to players whose character was not in a scene, until half-way through!
I love tibbits, too. They're one of my all-time favorite races along with warforged, elan, and hairy spiders.

redwizard007
2018-03-28, 07:24 PM
Two words.

Gully Dwarf.

They make the best paladins of any race ever. Ok, well. They make great comedic characters. They also pop up like roaches in a frat house and are harder to kill.

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-28, 08:19 PM
I have a fondness for gnomes, though I also feel they're seldom done "right", so it might be more accurate to say "I have a fondness for an idea of gnomes that no one else seems to subscribe to."

I enjoy the odd fey or alchemist gnome, and hate Tinker gnomes. Might I ask what your idea of gnomes is?


They're also not really dwarves because they're just a subrace of elves.

The mythological elves/dwarves weren't that well distinguished and could have been similar or the same thing on occasion. Of course, neither was noted for running around in Greco-Roman/Babylonian armor, so there's that.

Jay R
2018-03-28, 09:06 PM
Hobbits. One of my first D&D characters, back when hobbits were an established D&D race (before the Tolkien estate noticed), was a hobbit thief named "Robin Banks".

[Yes, that is a perfectly good hobbit name, and I'm quite proud of it for a thief.]

Celestia
2018-03-28, 09:49 PM
The mythological elves/dwarves weren't that well distinguished and could have been similar or the same thing on occasion. Of course, neither was noted for running around in Greco-Roman/Babylonian armor, so there's that.
True. Many ancient people didn't care much for classifications and treated things, especially strange creatures, as either "us" or "not us."

Lord Raziere
2018-03-28, 10:06 PM
Goblins! Especially when they're merchants that invent things and love explosions. Something about their ears and noses, and they feel like a good small race without being too soft and light.

SirBellias
2018-03-28, 11:01 PM
Dromites. If not that, kobolds for sure. Goblins are fun when they're given direction.

Ravens_cry
2018-03-29, 12:36 AM
I love tibbits, too. They're one of my all-time favorite races along with warforged, elan, and hairy spiders.
How do you make hairy spiders a playable race? I am genuinely curious.

Celestia
2018-03-29, 12:39 AM
How do you make hairy spiders a playable race? I am genuinely curious.
They have an LA and are thus playable.

Metahuman1
2018-03-29, 01:21 AM
Asphalt Nitro.
Beach Buggy Racing.
Riptide Gp2.
Traffic Raider 2.
32 Sec.

? I'm, not following.

Xuc Xac
2018-03-29, 02:49 AM
? I'm, not following.

Judging from its other posts, gameicreate is some kind of bot that picks out keywords but usually misses the context. I'm surprised it didn't say "that's interesting, tell me more about (thread title)".

Bohandas
2018-03-29, 03:45 AM
Gnomes, Dromites, and Kobolds in D&D. Various rodents in Toon.

Nifft
2018-03-29, 03:49 AM
Kobolds, of course.

The Faen (Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved) were interesting and fun.

If it's wrong to play as a morbidly obese levitating Halfling Wizard named Vladimir Harkonnen, then I don't want to be right.

Bastian Weaver
2018-03-29, 07:03 AM
Kender, definitely Kender. They're absolutely the very best!
Also, the Katta in Quest for Glory series (I'm going to play a Katta Paladin one day, it'll happen).

Metahuman1
2018-03-29, 07:28 AM
Judging from its other posts, gameicreate is some kind of bot that picks out keywords but usually misses the context. I'm surprised it didn't say "that's interesting, tell me more about (thread title)".

Damn things ARE getting more sophisticated.

hamlet
2018-03-29, 11:39 AM
In D&D and the like . . . . Dwarves. The good old stolid dwarves. I love the guys. Hobbits can be fun, but not often. They're too frequently stereotyped into Bilbo/Frodo.

In Arduin . . . a toss up between Kobbits (half dwarf half hobbit with wings) and goblins who ride Air Sharks (a great white shark that flies through the air and reacts . . . negatively to magic attacks).

Ravens_cry
2018-03-29, 02:49 PM
They have an LA and are thus playable.
*intense Googling* I would love to see someone pull off convincingly playing a character with not just animal but insect level intelligence. If you've done it, how did it go?

Lord Torath
2018-03-29, 03:34 PM
How do you make hairy spiders a playable race? I am genuinely curious.Do Neogi (or should I say "Neeohghee") count? They're mostly spiders with an eel-like head and neck.

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-29, 05:08 PM
*intense Googling* I would love to see someone pull off convincingly playing a character with not just animal but insect level intelligence. If you've done it, how did it go?

Well...Some species of spider do show intelligence in that they can learn from trial and error. Other spiders are willing to keep frogs as pets. So maybe the PC just thinks these crazy humanoids are nifty pets that help it eat?

Celestia
2018-03-30, 12:12 AM
*intense Googling* I would love to see someone pull off convincingly playing a character with not just animal but insect level intelligence. If you've done it, how did it go?
You just need to find some way to give it an intelligence score, such as a template or awaken spell. You could also argue that they just have a -10 intelligence penalty and then put in points to raise it up to at least 3. Or, with an agreeable DM, you could just hand wave it away and give them standard intelligence. After all, the strength and charisma penalties are already bad enough.

Illogictree
2018-03-30, 04:36 AM
Flumphs.

Followed closely by k0bolds.

Seriously.

I love the idea Paizo put forward of flumphs essentially being eldritch abominations akin to Cthulhu, albeit benevolent and low-power ones. The one time I got to use them in a game I DMed (...actually it was a Dungeon World game), I made sure to play up just how bizarre and alien, yet friendly, they actually were. Strange grammar in their communications to indicate their minds don't work quite the same as ours, a fixation on a very complex fractal dance they could use as a form of divination, inducing telepathic visions in other beings... it was fun and the players enjoyed it.

And everyone seems to love kobolds, so I don't need to explain. I prefer the draconic interpretation personally. I'd play a kobold character in the right campaign, even. :)

Pleh
2018-03-30, 07:09 AM
Never got the chance to play, but I kind of liked the Grimalkin (I first saw them in MM2, but it looks like they've been added to 5e).

Lord Torath
2018-03-30, 08:15 AM
Other spiders are willing to keep frogs as pets.*runs off to perform a quick web search*

Wow. That is so cool!
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/tiny-frogs-and-giant-spiders-best-of-friends/
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/07/03/tiny-frogs-and-giant-spiders/
Today I'm one of the lucky 10,000! Thanks!

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-30, 11:19 AM
Never got the chance to play, but I kind of liked the Grimalkin (I first saw them in MM2, but it looks like they've been added to 5e).

This sounded cool, and I tried to google it. Either these are catfolk, or really pale people with black hair. Got a better explanation?

Pleh
2018-03-30, 12:03 PM
This sounded cool, and I tried to google it. Either these are catfolk, or really pale people with black hair. Got a better explanation?

According to my copy of the MM2 update, they have LA +3 with 4HD (seems a little harsh to me since their power isn't that great; a CR 2 creature is about the same as an ECL 7 hero?) as a Magical Beast (Shapechanger) of Medium Size, but they can use Alternate Form (basically limited Polymorph as 4th level caster without regaining hit points) as a free action to change into any Animal or Vermin of Medium or smaller size (I know that's the reason for the LA; Polymorph is no joke, but this isn't even really using the true power of that spell).

They also have Empathy (the ability to sense your emotional state and desires without necessarily detecting your exact thoughts).

So not Catfolk (that's Tibbits), but more like Cat-Doppelgangers (almost a Cat Variant of a Blink Dog). MM2 says their "natural form" is an oversized (medium) cat with blue-gray fur. They have an Intelligence of 8 by the standard Crunch, so they speak Common and are described as being very talkative and not so great at knowing when to stop talking.

Fluff in 3.5 says that they are mostly "domesticated" magic beasts and so they're rarely found in the wild and more commonly employed as pets and guardians by civilized cultures. They typically end up forming a bond with their master.

As written, clearly a better candidate for some kind of familiar or cohort than a PC, but that always felt wrong to me as the character potential for these creatures seems enormous. They fit really well into the Rogue archetype with their talkative nature, ability to shapechange between creatures that are fast, quiet, and/or venomous.

If I wanted to play one as a LA 0 race, I'd make the Alternate Form thing a 3/day ability (pretty standard, I'd say), remove racial hit dice, leave in the racial bonuses to stealth and acrobatics related skills, +2 to Dex and Charisma, -2 to Wisdom and Strength, let them keep Empathy (enemies still get a Will Save, so base it on the Grimalkin's ECL), maybe reduce Darkvision to Lowlight (since they keep Empathy), and their speed of 40ft.

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-30, 12:07 PM
Yes, that does sound much cooler then the catfolk that my google image search gave me. Now I need to go find that 5e version as this sounds interesting for a setting I'm working on. Thanks for the description!

Pleh
2018-03-30, 12:10 PM
I did try google searching for the 5e version and the only thing I found was a D&D wiki that seemed totally unrelated, so best of luck to you.

If you don't find anything, you can probably post in the 5e forum and ask for help adapting the MM2 creature for 5e rules.

Khedrac
2018-03-30, 12:22 PM
The RuneQuest elf (3rd Ed) sort-of counts for this, where human sizes ranges form 8 to 18, elves range from 3 to 18 so they can be very small characters.

Come to think of it Trollkin can be great fun and are definitely small characters.

Concrete
2018-03-30, 12:31 PM
Ratfolk. Once a Skaven player, always a Skaven player.

Psyren
2018-03-31, 05:19 AM
I have a soft spot for Grippli! Aside from being generally cool, I enjoy finding ways to incorporate the tongue into combat.

hamishspence
2018-03-31, 10:27 AM
In D&D and the like . . . . Dwarves. The good old stolid dwarves. I love the guys. Hobbits can be fun, but not often. They're too frequently stereotyped into Bilbo/Frodo.

Dwarves are usually Medium rather than Small though - they're just at the short end of Medium.

Velaryon
2018-04-01, 12:10 PM
Kobolds (particularly 1e aesthetic) and Jawas.

+1 to Kobolds (though I'm not familiar with their 1e incarnation) and especially to Jawas. My first SWRPG character was a Jawa, and he remains one of my favorites to this day.



*runs off to perform a quick web search*

Wow. That is so cool!
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/tiny-frogs-and-giant-spiders-best-of-friends/
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/07/03/tiny-frogs-and-giant-spiders/
Today I'm one of the lucky 10,000! Thanks!


And now I'm one of the lucky 10,000 as well. Thanks for sharing the links!

Mark Hall
2018-04-02, 10:59 AM
Flumphs.


I wanted to have flumphs be 1st edition monks.