Favorite Wizard Spells?

[DrowPiratRobrts]

I'm curious what some of your favorite Wizard spells are and why? I'm especially looking for unique uses of spells. They don't have to be gamebreaking or damage spells either, just ones that make you and the party think "Wow, tonight was really fun. And then you cast 'X' and made 'Y' happen! That was so cool/funny/epic!" I'm playing a Wizard and thinking about what spells I want to take at future levels and what spells I hope to find and scribe in our campaign. So I'm just curious what sort of shenanigans you've all used magic for. Over 90% of my spells don't do damage at this point, so really anything is fine.

Most recently I used unseen servant to creep under a banquet table and pour a potion into the Elf Queen's drink without her knowing. I don't know what the potion does, but it's pink and shimmering so I hope it's a love potion that makes her fall in love with our Treant. Our DM ended the night right as she went back to eating, so now I have to wait two weeks (the party doesn't even know I did it, they just know something happened, teehee).

[A Fat Dragon]

I’d be lying if I didn’t say True Polymorph is my favorite spell in Dnd.

[Ventruenox]

My Voodoo Mortician (Bardlock) created a spectacle in the middle of the street by ritual casting Speak with Animals and then cast Speak with Dead in order to interrogate a dead bee for information on a plot we were aiming to foil.

He later was able to save an important NPC from a Behir by tossing down a Sanctuary then taunting the Behir with Vicious Mockery. (Take that, bounded accuracy!)

[sophontteks]

Suggestion is good fun. Comes early, before legendary resistance is a problem. So fun to pull off.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

I’d be lying if I didn’t say True Polymorph is my favorite spell in Dnd.

My DM gave us a broken Wand of True Polymorph at level 5. I haven't messed up yet, but the DC to use it is now 20 (and that's still not guaranteed to go as I plan). I just used it to turn an old veteran we hired into a purple worm so he could dig a canal from our base to our warship 200 miles away. Our DM was willing to bend the rules just because it was a great plan that didn't break the game and helped us achieve our dream of making our base a "coastal" port. (I also used it to turn a hellhound into a small block of wood once...good times)

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Suggestion is good fun. Comes early, before legendary resistance is a problem. So fun to pull off.

This can be either really good (getting several thousand gold for the party at level 3) or really hilarious (embarrassing your worst enemies or hostile NPCs in pivotal RP moments).

[Lord8Ball]

I like mirage arcane because it is so versatile and it looks amazing to turn a mile radius into whatever you want. You could scare people into thinking you are way more powerful than you are by making a gigantic crater with a big flash. It would be hilarious if there was an army chasing you and they fled because you cast that spell. I also like the concept of a reality marble and unlimited blade works from the fate series.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

My Voodoo Mortician (Bardlock) created a spectacle in the middle of the street by ritual casting Speak with Animals and then cast Speak with Dead in order to interrogate a dead bee for information on a plot we were aiming to foil.



This is amazing! My players once killed an NPC of mine accidentally when they were questioning him, so the Cleric used Speak with Dead to continue questioning him. He was pissed at them and didn't cooperate, so the Warlock used Detect Thoughts. I didn't what to get into an ontological debate about reading a dead dwarf's mind, so I just let it play and enjoyed the show.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

I like mirage arcane because it is so versatile and it looks amazing to turn a mile radius into whatever you want. You could scare people into thinking you are way more powerful than you are by making a gigantic crater with a big flash. It would be hilarious if there was an army chasing you and they fled because you cast that spell. I also like the concept of a reality marble and unlimited blade works from the fate series.

I need to look into this spell. I'm an Illusionist after all, so this seems right up my character's alley!

[JeffreyGator]

Phantasmal Force is up there for me with Suggestion and Unseen Servant.

I also really like Wall of Stone for making/building instant fortresses and towers and it comes at level 9 when you should first start in on that in 1st edition.

[Ventruenox]

A previous character performed an epic character assassination of our bourgeoisie antagonist via Alter Self and a Scroll of Glibness. Dragging the anchor of his airship we stole through the city's main street while proclaiming "It's my birthday, bit****!" was just the icing on the cake.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

A previous character performed an epic character assassination of our bourgeoisie antagonist via Alter Self and a Scroll of Glibness. Dragging the anchor of his airship we stole through the city's main street while proclaiming "It's my birthday, bit****!" was just the icing on the cake.

This is hilarious, because I didn't even know Glibness was a spell...there are just so many. I'm also very proud of you for this.

[sithlordnergal]

Favorite Wizard spells...well, there are four:

1)Tasha's Hideous Laughter: It's a good way to get an enemy out of the fight for at least a full turn. Even better, they're still prone until the start of their next turn since the save comes at the end of their turn. So everyone else in the party can ignore them until they make they save, then dogpile on them when they do make the save. Plus it is neither a charm or enchantment, meaning the only things that resist it have a low Intelligence.

2) Animated Objects: Do you need a bunch of surprisingly deadly minions? Of course you do, who doesn't? Besides DMs of course. >=3 Honestly, all you need to do is carry around some bags of caltrops or ball bearings and you can change the entire battlefield.

3) Polymorph: This spell has so much you can do with it, and I love all of it. If your fighter is low on HP, just turn him into a giant ape. Now he's no longer low on hp.

4)Suggestion: Two words, Jedi Mindtrick. Just make sure you word things well to make it all seem reasonable.

[Samayu]

Suggestion. In combat, it can usually keep two of them busy. And it has noncombat uses as well.

[Nettlekid]

Levitate is underappreciated. It's good for personal utility before flight is an option to ascend up to 2000 feet, carry very heavy objects by Levitating them and leading them by a leash, and immobilize enemies who don't have a flight option. Even if they have a ranged attack they're weaker if they can't run away and kite, and if they don't they're helpless. And it's a Con save, which is a little unusual and helps round out save-or-suck spells if you also take Suggestion or Hold Person or another useful Wis-based spell. Can be Twinned pretty cheaply for a Sorcerer.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Levitate is underappreciated. It's good for personal utility before flight is an option to ascend up to 2000 feet, carry very heavy objects by Levitating them and leading them by a leash, and immobilize enemies who don't have a flight option. Even if they have a ranged attack they're weaker if they can't run away and kite, and if they don't they're helpless. And it's a Con save, which is a little unusual and helps round out save-or-suck spells if you also take Suggestion or Hold Person or another useful Wis-based spell. Can be Twinned pretty cheaply for a Sorcerer.

Yeah I've found tons of great uses for levitate, from showboating to going through a treehouse dungeon backwards by floating up to the boss room first. The crazy part is that even with fly, you can still just cast a Level 2 spell and (depending on party size) potentially cause your whole team to "fly" if you all grab on to one object and just hold on.

It's super useful in combat, even if it does take concentration. I can levitate an enemy into a helpless position, then cast minor illusion to put them in a box effectively removing them from the fight. I could even just make the box small enough where we can still see their feet to target them. So many uses!

[ImproperJustice]

1. Suggestion: after wounding an enemy and telling him he should get more healing potions from camp, and then tracking him to the bad guy hideout.

2. Using Tenser’s floating disk to move some highly valuable furniture out of a dungeon which was originally only meant as fluff/ dungeon dressing.
2.5: Doing it again to move a giant wooden sled up a mountain to then ride back down later for a quick escape.

3. Wall of Stone: to build bridges more than anything else. We currently have a Dwarf armed with Whelm which grants hi
Disadvantage whenever he “sees the sun in the sky” according to the GM description. So we build him a sun shelter to attack from.

4. Slow and Ray of Frost to wreck an enemy’s move speed. Really, slow in general can really change an encounter.

5. Mold Earth to build cool fortified campsites.

6. Shape Water to create ice flow surfboards.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

1. Suggestion: after wounding an enemy and telling him he should get more healing potions from camp, and then tracking him to the bad guy hideout.

2. Using Tenser’s floating disk to move some highly valuable furniture out of a dungeon which was originally only meant as fluff/ dungeon dressing.
2.5: Doing it again to move a giant wooden sled up a mountain to then ride back down later for a quick escape.

I like these a lot! Good work!

[Ogre Mage]

Hypnotic Pattern: arguably the best bang for your buck battlefield control spell. It can stop an entire group of enemies in their tracks and many monsters (particularly trash mobs) have poor wisdom saves. Even better on a sorcerer with careful spell as you can exclude your allies.

Greater Invisibility: a powerful offensive/defensive buff which is great on yourself but maybe even better when cast on the party rogue.

[Appleheart]

For Fun - Suggestion! As so many people have called out, jedi mindtrick and all.

For Boring Effectiveness - Shield, Mirror Images, Absorb Elements, Counterspell.

For Being COOL - Melf's Minute Meteors. On a Bard. Juggling, and killing everything.

[sophontteks]

Hypnotic Pattern: arguably the best bang for your buck battlefield control spell. It can stop an entire group of enemies in their tracks and many monsters (particularly trash mobs) have poor wisdom saves. Even better on a sorcerer with careful spell as you can exclude your allies.

Agreed. Glamour bards can use inspiration to allow their companions to leave the AOE prior to casting. Its my best combat spell ATM.

[DerficusRex]

My DM gave us a broken Wand of True Polymorph at level 5. I haven't messed up yet, but the DC to use it is now 20 (and that's still not guaranteed to go as I plan). I just used it to turn an old veteran we hired into a purple worm so he could dig a canal from our base to our warship 200 miles away. Our DM was willing to bend the rules just because it was a great plan that didn't break the game and helped us achieve our dream of making our base a "coastal" port. (I also used it to turn a hellhound into a small block of wood once...good times)

That wouldn't happen to have been a particular adventure with a sheep and a treehouse, would it? :) It looks entertaining - I'm planning to spring it on my players after they're finished with what they're currently doing.

[Ventruenox]

Actually, I am fairly certain that came from one of my ideas on another thread with the OP. I am quite pleased that it got used successfully, and also a little bit surprised that his DM didn't insist on locks and dams to be built to accommodate elevation changes from sea level. If they can tie their canal to another major trade route, their efforts could affect long term in-game economies the way the Erie canal helped to make New York the financial titan it is today. It would certainly help the OP's character's clothing line company.

[Laserlight]

I'm curious what some of your favorite Wizard spells are and why?

Hands down winner is Polymorph, particularly if you've just gotten it and the party doesn't know. You get into a rough fight, one of the other PCs is down to 3HP...and you say "I move here, I cast a spell. Alyssa, you're a T Rex. Here are your stats. Here's a model T Rex to replace your token. Go get 'em, girl." Every time I've sprung that on an unsuspecting fellow player, they've been delighted.


My second favorite was when I was a Hexblade with devil's sight, casting Darkness. "A cloud of darkness moves across the battlefield, and when it flows over an enemy, it leaves only hewn corpses behind." (Every time I've sprung that on an unsuspecting NPC, they've been de-lighted).

[DrowPiratRobrts]

That wouldn't happen to have been a particular adventure with a sheep and a treehouse, would it? :) It looks entertaining - I'm planning to spring it on my players after they're finished with what they're currently doing.

The wand was indeed from a flashback adventure with a sheep and a treehouse! xD


Actually, I am fairly certain that came from one of my ideas on another thread with the OP. I am quite pleased that it got used successfully, and also a little bit surprised that his DM didn't insist on locks and dams to be built to accommodate elevation changes from sea level. If they can tie their canal to another major trade route, their efforts could affect long term in-game economies the way the Erie canal helped to make New York the financial titan it is today. It would certainly help the OP's character's clothing line company.

And yes, this was a brilliant idea in the other thread! We haven't gotten everyone back to the table at the same time, so the base name is up in the air. But when we return to the base we'll have a 1 square mile lake and a canal deep enough that we didn't need any locks. He said we were close to sea level and we weren't going through any mountainous or hill regions with the direction we picked. I'm looking forward to expanding Huey Vuitton! He gave us a PDF of ways to expand your base, and the first thing I want is an airship dock so we can find an airship and paint the huge HV on the side like a blimp. It'll be perfect! (I just made a business deal/hired a powerful NPC looking for more adventure in his life and it turns out he owns an airship)

[DrowPiratRobrts]

one of the other PCs is down to 3HP...and you say "I move here, I cast a spell. Alyssa, you're a T Rex. Here are your stats. Here's a model T Rex to replace your token. Go get 'em, girl." Every time I've sprung that on an unsuspecting fellow player, they've been delighted.

Believe me, I'm just biding my time...haha!

[TheUser]

Wall of Force in large encounters is great; you cut your opponents off from being able to re-enforce and help each other. Fighting 10 opponents can be daunting but fighting 5 then 5 is wayyy easier. Better yet if you know both you and an ally are going back to back casting wall of fire before dropping a dome over top of a group of enemies results in a cookout.

[Deox]

Higher level, but I absolutely love Mighty Fortress.

Honorable mentions: Summon Elemental with Planar Binding. Get that Earth Elemental digging!

[RSP]

I'm a big fan of Nystul's Magic Aura. Though it could use a rewrite as it's a horribly written spell that at least needs clarity, you should be able to get away with the following (cast every day for 30 days for permanent):

Making your magic items appear non-magic. Great for keeping your gear. And for seeming to do amazing things without using magic.

Making non-magical items seem magical. Great for tricking people (had a Bard who used fake items for non-monetary bargaining with important/powerful NPCs).

Making yourself seem to be a Celestial, Fey, Fiend, etc. This one really shines when visiting a temple or a gaggle of Paladins (a group of Paladins is a gaggle, right?). Claim to be sent from their god and let them verify with their Detection spells. Or trick someone into letting you cast on them but make them a fiend...

Depending on interpretation of the spell:

You might even be able to get out of humanoid-only spell targets by seeming a different creature type.

[hymer]

(a group of Paladins is a gaggle, right?)
If they're teenagers, it's a 'giggle'. And if they're surprised or under water, it's a 'goggle'.

My favourite Wizard spell would be Polymorph, I think. It comes into play at such a time that it comes into play, and it scores solidly on versatility, power, and importantly fun. It also has a rich history that resonates with modern audiences, what with turning princes into frogs as needed.

[Aleister VII]

Suggestion is absolutely the best for it's raw usefulness and how early you can get it, specially if used by a sorcerer as you can subtle cast it and get away in most social situations like: "he (your PC) speaks the true" or "you (the target) must trust him/her (your PC)".

In battle you can also have fun with twinned spell, target two hobgoblins and tells them "He (The other hobgoblin) is sleeping with your girlfriend." And see them arguing or even killing each other!

Or if you want to mess with religious fanatics "he/she (your PC) is the Messiah" this one works even better with mass suggestion as you can get a whole town on your side and get anything that you want for free, after all who would deny something to the Messiah?

Or if you want to humiliate someone: "Your clothes are on fire." And see that someone strips naked in front of everyone, with a little help from your DM you can also strip the target of all of his armor and equipment xD

However not sure if a sane DM would allow something like "You're a Chicken" and see your enemy make act like a chicken, I personally would only allow that if the target has a very low INT but to most it doesn't make sense x.x

[sophontteks]

You shouldn't need to subtly cast spells like suggestion as the verbal component is the suggestion itself and there is no somatic component. I know there is some disagreement on what a verbal component is, but with charms like this the spell would be useless as written if NPCs are aware its a spell.

The best example would be with enthrall. Enthrall is a spell that uses distracting words to give targets disadvantage on perception checks, but nothing about the spell alters their memory in any way. If they know a spell is being cast they would have reason to suspect something is amiss, ruining the entire point of the spell.

[RSP]

Also, I'm a big fan of Modify Memory to create memories in Clerics (or other faithful) that their chosen deity is contacting them and telling them to do X; with X being anything that my character currently would need help with.

Walk in the temple, cast the spell, and then the priest is like "by the gods, it's true. In my dream last night, Torm came to me and said someone matching your exact description would come in today with a pressing need. Please tell me how I can aid you."

[Aleister VII]

You shouldn't need to subtly cast spells like suggestion as the verbal component is the suggestion itself and there is no somatic component. I know there is some disagreement on what a verbal component is, but with charms like this the spell would be useless as written if NPCs are aware its a spell.


It shouldn't? I'm not quite sure how to rule that but I'm kinda newbie to 5e so you most likely are right.

[FilthyLucre]

Counterspell

[sophontteks]

It shouldn't? I'm not quite sure how to rule that but I'm kinda newbie to 5e so you most likely are right.
As a bard who focuses on charm spells, I've tried to read on it as much as I could. Its annoyingly vague, but from what I can tell many spells are quite subtle. Nothing says verbal means you are shouting vulgar latin words. Nothing says somatic requires you to flap your arm about like a headless chicken. They seem to skate around giving a direct answer to this. All I know is that they must be subtle or many charm spells would straight up not work as intended.

[RSP]

As a bard who focuses on charm spells, I've tried to read on it as much as I could. Its annoyingly vague, but from what I can tell many spells are quite subtle. Nothing says verbal means you are shouting vulgar latin words. Nothing says somatic requires you to flap your arm about like a headless chicken. They seem to skate around giving a direct answer to this. All I know is that they must be subtle or many charm spells would straight up not work as intended.

So then why have Subtle Spell metamagic? Are Charm spells immune to Counterspell? I think you need to have some sort of distinction when a spell is cast, otherwise those two abilities are completely worthless.

[sophontteks]

So then why have Subtle Spell metamagic? Are Charm spells immune to Counterspell? I think you need to have some sort of distinction when a spell is cast, otherwise those two abilities are completely worthless.
Can cast with your arms tied up. Can cast in silence. Can cast any spell without any indication that you did it.

Casting a fireball while bound and gagged without anyone knowing its you. Man subtle is useless.

What more do you want?
Do you really think all charm spells should be useless unless a sorcerer casts them? Thats BS sorry.

[Aleister VII]

Well I assume that suggestion has a tell or some sort that most of times isn't noticed since the target it under the spell effect, the same happens with charm person but as we all know whoever you charm realizes what you did after the effect has expired.

So... in a "social encounter" with more than one person you MAY need to use subtle spell to affect a single target without making it obvious to the others persons around like of you're talking with a king it will most likely have guards or something similar with him.

Or that's how I interpret it, I guess it's up to how each DM interpretation of either suggestion or charm person.

Something really cool and subtle may be being a great old one warlock with telepathy and speak the suggestion directly to the target's mind, but then again is up yo debate of you can use suggestion in that way.

[sophontteks]

Yeah, and the writers refuse to answer these questions. They know they made a mess with charm spells as they are written. Unless these spells can be cast without notice, enthrall is literally useless as a spell. Rather then answer these questions they have decided to wave their hand and say "Its up to the DM."

Whatever ruling a DM makes, if the process of casting enthrall causes alarm over the spell being cast, then the second level spell can't even forfill its very minor effect of distracting npcs. Casting a spell would alert guards right? And enthrall is supposed to distract guards right? Clearly something isn't right here.

[Aleister VII]

Do you really think all charm spells should be useless unless a sorcerer casts them? Thats BS sorry.

I never say that, I'm just wondering about how those spells would be affected or improved with metamagic.

That being said friends and suggestion are two of my favorite spells regardless of being casted by a sorcerer or any other caster, they're awesome.

And like I theorize in my previous post it may be extremely situational as you can get away with friends and charm person most of times unless there's someone else that isn't under the spell effect and is somehow aware of you doing it, so.... adding subtle spell isn't necessary at all but at best situational but when the situation arises it can be quite useful if your DM is okay with that.

Edit: I think that enthrall should pass smoothly without being noticed much like friends or charm person, suggestion is my main concern as you literally are saying your target a course of action and then the target do what you just said! Wouldn't that be suspicious to the others persons around?

[RSP]

Can cast with your arms tied up. Can cast in silence. Can cast any spell without any indication that you did it.

Casting a fireball while bound and gagged without anyone knowing its you. Man subtle is useless.

What more do you want?
Do you really think all charm spells should be useless unless a sorcerer casts them? Thats BS sorry.

So in your view no Charm spell is ever subject to Counterspell and since nothing actually differentiates between S, V, and M for Charm spells and all other spells, all spells are Subtle...

[TheUser]

Friends has no verbal component for starters. It is possible to cast it without suspiscion if you can obscure your hands from view under a cloak or something.

Charm spells are supposed to be useless in a social situation unless you've isolated the target. The effects of Charm Person or Suggestion don't fail if the target sees you casting so they are far from useless.

If you think you can walk into the king's high court and start invoking magic and it'll just be ok? Nah. That's silly. Maybe a boisterous and rowdy tavern but even then people's ears would be trained to pick up magic words as a survival skill (unless super low magic environment).

Subtle spell is insanely powerful, it's supposed to be. Charm spells aren't useless without it but they are much better with it. That's the point.

[sophontteks]

The only charm spell that can negate the effects of the target seeing the spell cast on them is charm person, because it makes them a friendly aquantance after the spell was cast. Charm spells like suggestion and enthrall are completely useless because they don't change the targets attitude toward the caster.

Sure you can suggest a target to do something successfully, but on top of that suggestion he's also hostile because he knows you just magically suggested that they do something. Suggestion does not charm the target in any way, so why wouldn't this isolated target just attack the person using suggestion?

And, again, you've ruled that enthrall is completely broken as written. Enthrall doesn't charm either and the fact that you cast a spell would completely counteract the effects of the spell.

No spell should be rendered useless as written by a RAI ruling, so any interpetation of how somatic and verbal components work must allow Enthrall to work and if you read what enthrall does that is no small challenge.

[RSP]

The only charm spell that can negate the effects of the target seeing the spell cast on them is charm person, because it makes them a friendly aquantance after the spell was cast. Charm spells like suggestion and enthrall are completely useless because they don't change the targets attitude toward the caster.

Sure you can suggest a target to do something successfully, but on top of that suggestion he's also hostile because he knows you just magically suggested that they do something. Suggestion does not charm the target in any way, so why wouldn't this isolated target just attack the person using suggestion?

And, again, you've ruled that enthrall is completely broken as written. Enthrall doesn't charm either and the fact that you cast a spell would completely counteract the effects of the spell.

No spell should be rendered useless as written by a RAI ruling, so any interpetation of how somatic and verbal components work must allow Enthrall to work and if you read what enthrall does that is no small challenge.

Aren't you rendering Counterspell useless by how you rule these things?

Personally, I don't think casters need a leg up on other characters: having the component element helps keep caster power in check. You can cast Suggestion on the king, but his guards and everyone in the court will know you did something with magic.

This isn't to say they know you cast a spell on him, but they know you cast something, and it's only logical to assume if the king just pulled a 180 and decided not to throw the group in prison for killing the bad guy-who-was-thought-to-be-an-honorable-citizen.

[sophontteks]

Aren't you rendering Counterspell useless by how you rule these things?

Personally, I don't think casters need a leg up on other characters: having the component element helps keep caster power in check. You can cast Suggestion on the king, but his guards and everyone in the court will know you did something with magic.

This isn't to say they know you cast a spell on him, but they know you cast something, and it's only logical to assume if the king just pulled a 180 and decided not to throw the group in prison for killing the bad guy-who-was-thought-to-be-an-honorable-citizen.
I understand that this is tricky and complicated, but in order for these spells to work they must be subtle enough to go unnoticed by most. But most doesn't mean all and it doesn't mean they are impossible to detect.

Would your average guard distinguish between normal gesticulations and the subtle hand movements of a charm spell? No, because then spells like enthrall wouldn't work. But would a wizard or someone who studies magic know? For sure.

How noticable suggestion is would depend on the nature of the suggestion. Suggesting something mundane may go unnoticed in a casual setting, but the effects of a more extreme suggestion would be obvious to everyone. Suggestion is rather unique in that it doesn't have a somatic component.

Nothing says all spells are super obvious to everyone. They even mention that the effects of some spells aren't detectable. RAI should follow these intentions in subtle spells like charms. This doesn't make subtle spell useless, it doesn't make charms OP (it just makes them work as written), and it doesn't make counterspell useless.

[RSP]

I understand that this is tricky and complicated, but in order for these spells to work they must be subtle enough to go unnoticed by most. But most doesn't mean all and it doesn't mean they are impossible to detect.

Would your average guard distinguish between normal gesticulations and the subtle hand movements of a charm spell? No, because then spells like enthrall wouldn't work. But would a wizard or someone who studies magic know? For sure.

How noticable suggestion is would depend on the nature of the suggestion. Suggesting something mundane may go unnoticed in a casual setting, but the effects of a more extreme suggestion would be obvious to everyone. Suggestion is rather unique in that it doesn't have a somatic component.

Nothing says all spells are super obvious to everyone. They even mention that the effects of some spells aren't detectable. RAI should follow these intentions in subtle spells like charms. This doesn't make subtle spell useless, it doesn't make charms OP (it just makes them work as written), and it doesn't make counterspell useless.

I agree these situations should be taken on a case-by-case basis. I disagree that a blanket rule for Charm spells should be in effect that have them operate outside of normal casting rules, though, obviously, this is just my opinion. If it works for you and your table, then there's no problem.

I am curious if your players are fine being Charmed without being told if a casting, though.

[sophontteks]

I agree these situations should be taken on a case-by-case basis. I disagree that a blanket rule for Charm spells should be in effect that have them operate outside of normal casting rules, though, obviously, this is just my opinion. If it works for you and your table, then there's no problem.

I am curious if your players are fine being Charmed without being told if a casting, though.

These are normal casting rules. What verbal and somatic components are is intentionally vague and easy to misunderstand. The most important thing is that one must have a free hand for somatic and must be able to speak for verbal. Nothing said they are obvious. Its just that it only really comes up with illusions and charms.

As a spellcaster focusing entirely upon enchantments and illusions this has been a large source of frustration. Its more then vague, its a scattered mess that they refuse to clean up in the ettera's. They just keep going back to "Its up to the DM." I've read pages and pages of people fighting over how obvious spell-casting is. Players would very much like to know how obvious the casting of an illusion or an enchantment is before rolling up a character. But instead we have to have a 1 on 1 and discuss every illusion and enchantment spell with the DM to see if the spells will even work.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

This has gone a little off track from my OP haha. I don't mind though because this is an interesting topic. I think the bit about magic users being able to identify certain somatic spell casting maneuvers that everyone else is oblivious to makes the most sense to me. With my current DM I just ask him to tell me any time someone begins casting a spell that has a Verbal or Somatic component if I could reasonably notice it since I'm a wizard. With the rest of the party it doesn't matter because they can't do anything about it. Even if they know someone is casting an Illusion, RAW they still have to pass a check to see that it's an illusion. The thing is, it's magic. It affects you beyond the logic of your mind. The intelligence check is a mechanic that allows you to try to piece together whether or not the spell is an illusion, but until you see through it you're forced to assume it's real.

For example: The party sees a dragon appear. That could easily be an illusion. But if it's making sound and it's breath heats the air, it could also be a high level conjuration spell. Anyone who isn't a magic user would have an almost impossible time knowing if it's real or not based on what the caster did in his/her spellcasting. So they essentially have to assume it's a real dragon or run the risk of dying. Maybe they spend an action to make their intelligence check, or maybe they don't want to risk finding out that it's a real dragon and they just decide to play it safe by running away or something.

[RSP]

I think the bit about magic users being able to identify certain somatic spell casting maneuvers that everyone else is oblivious to makes the most sense to me.


First off, yeah, apologies if I got the thread off track.

I hate the identifying a spell optional rule in XgtE, but I do feel casting to some extent is obvious, otherwise you lessen Subtle Spell and make Counterspell worthless. As I said I go by a case-by-case, and go with "So-and-so casts a spell," rather than say what the spell is. The PCs don't know if the NPC cast Hex on one of them, or Hold Person and it failed (I roll the save), or whatever, but I feel they should have the chance to react to the casting.

Likewise, unless in a very low magic setting, the use of Charms and whatnot will be kind of obvious to 3rd party viewers. I mean, wouldn't storm troopers 2, 3 and 4, be like "um, Sarg, those look exactly like the droids we're looking for..." And they probably knew next to nothing, if anything, about the force.

In any situation where magic is common-place, people will be on guard for these types of things. Though, as you said, there's no real way for viewers to know if the caster is creating an illusion, or if they're powerful enough to actually summon/create what appears.

At least, this is how I view these things.